S18.E38: Head Of Household 13, Nominations 13

[Tara Ariano]

Quote

Nominations for eviction are revealed.

[North of Eden]

Nothing to see here. Wrong thread!

Edited September 9, 2016 by North of Eden

[Callaphera]

Corey: "Mama didn't raise no bitch."

Given time, there are probably a million and one jokes I can make about that line. But instead, all I can do is laugh hysterically. 

Ladies and gentlemen, your winner of BB18, the dimwitted and dull Corey.

[ByaNose]

17 minutes ago, Callaphera said:

Corey: "Mama didn't raise no bitch."

Given time, there are probably a million and one jokes I can make about that line. But instead, all I can do is laugh hysterically. 

Ladies and gentlemen, your winner of BB18, the dimwitted and dull Corey.

Surprisingly, I come around a little on Corey. I like how he & Nicole discuss everything & listen to each other. I'm sure his DR's & Nominations are scripted since I don't think he's that witty. I would never in a million picked him ro win in Week 2 or 3 but now it's a possibility. He played the game Paulie should have played. Paulie should have been quiet and not won the comps. Corey stayed quiet & in bed which really helped his game. LOL!!!

Edited September 12, 2016 by ByaNose

[RedheadZombie]

Paul:  "Surprise us"

SURPRISE!

[Lamb18]

Who knew that Corey had some brains and could actually strategize? He's the Scarecrow and somewhere along the way found the Wizard.

[JudyObscure]

I love that Paul's first words after the nominations was about how he'll have to campaign against Victor.

What's that you say Paul?  You mean you'll have the audacity  to throw your ride or die under the bus?  You awful, despicable, low life, slut!

[PaperTree]

So funny watching Paul and Victor blindsided after so smugly assuming their safety.

I've hit that inevitable point in the season where I can't stand any of them. (trying not to overuse the H word)

[North of Eden]

Thank god for some actual intelligent game play. I thought we were about to witness a screw up on the level of Macellus Golden Veto and Lawons "super powers". I was shaking my head and saying out loud  "You are F'ing up. You are F'ing' up when Nicole was doing her best to talk Corey out of not putting the pair on the block together...and Corey is diary rooming that she was "making good points"...it was looking for to be an epic fail but Corey smartened up and may even have positioned himself for the win.

Paul is going to "take revenge" if Victor goes home? How are you going to do that exactly?

Scraper...meet bottom of the barrel in terms of footage...there were desperate bits of filler tonight with the the salt water and the cleaning montage.

I love you James but losing your ride or die is more than a little "hiccup". Enjoyed the epilogue on Jatalie though.

Best case scenario James winds up in the final two with Nicole-wins the game and rides off into the sunset with Natalie at his side....flush with cash and a trophy girlfriend...the sweet life indeed!

[Callaphera]

7 minutes ago, North of Eden said:

Scraper...meet bottom of the barrel in terms of footage...there were desperate bits of filler tonight with the the salt water and the cleaning montage.

That stove top was disgusting. I laughed when Corey was scrubbing at it with a piece of paper towel or rag of whatever it was he had. There ain't no scrubbing off that ring of grime without some serious cleaners and a lot of elbow grease. 

[Jesse]

I've also come around a little on Corey, but I also think it's interesting that there have been so few back doors this season. In previous seasons, I feel like this scenario would actually have been a James back door plot, assuming Victor wins the Veto comp.

[Marie80]

I'm just glad Victor finally found an alliance he can trust completely. :)

[Eolivet]

18 minutes ago, Jesse said:

I've also come around a little on Corey, but I also think it's interesting that there have been so few back doors this season

I feel like the godawful Battle of the Block killed the vast majority of backdoor strategies dead, and is continuing to kill them from beyond the grave. That and "vote with the house," and there's no strategy that's unique to one person anymore -- it's all about keeping "us" safe (whether "us" is two, or 6 or 10).

I really miss people playing their own games, for themselves, not "for my alliance" or "for my ride-or-die." There's so little suspense involved in "Battle of the Pairs," unless one of the pair is going to turn on the other one.

Also: I'd take a good, old-fashioned "blood on my hands" over having to hear "ride-or-die" one more freaking time this week.

Edited September 12, 2016 by Eolivet
Battle of the Block is really most sincerely dead (hooray!)

[stcroix]

37 minutes ago, North of Eden said:

Thank god for some actual intelligent game play. I thought we were about to witness a screw up on the level of Macellus Golden Veto and Lawons "super powers". I was shaking my head and saying out loud  "You are F'ing up. You are F'ing' up when Nicole was doing her best to talk Corey out of not putting the pair on the block together...and Corey is diary rooming that she was "making good points"...it was looking for to be an epic fail but Corey smartened up and may even have positioned himself for the win.

Paul is going to "take revenge" if Victor goes home? How are you going to do that exactly?

Scraper...meet bottom of the barrel in terms of footage...there were desperate bits of filler tonight with the the salt water and the cleaning montage.

I love you James but losing your ride or die is more than a little "hiccup". Enjoyed the epilogue on Jatalie though.

Best case scenario James winds up in the final two with Nicole-wins the game and rides off into the sunset with Natalie at his side....flush with cash and a trophy girlfriend...the sweet life indeed!

The only way I believe James would ever have ridden away into the sunset with Natalie is if he WAS flush with cash..... 

If he wins this thing, by some miracle, (or America's Player) then we'll see her turn back into her 'cute' act and be all puppy dog following her Jamsie around.  Otherwise, she's moving on to bigger fish. 

Edited September 12, 2016 by stcroix

[Wandering Snark]

1 hour ago, ByaNose said:

Surprisingly, I come around a little on Corey.

Lets go! *laughs* I have no idea how it happened either but I'm almost cheering for that big dim blonde sleestack... Oh how the game has turned. 'Mama didn't raise no bitch' may have been a tad stong for the occasion but I'm glad he made the move that had to be made not the 'easy bro-down vote' which I thought he would. I like the WTF look in James' eyes after the noms. He's just standing between two warring factions now. He could still sneak through and make it but I think it's all down to comps and we've already done the wall comp.

[AndreaK1041]

That Corey cleaning montage was bad even for Big Brother.

[Petunia13]

This show draggged. I feel like there's too much filler and it's longer than necessary at an hour, it should be shorter like 32 minutes. 

They can go back to hour when they have cast that is worth it. 

[mojoween]

I don't CARE if it was good for Corey's game.  I like Victor and by association Paul and I haaaaate Corey and Nicole.  And James too.  Fuck him.

For me, this is the absolute worst case scenario.  The only possible solace I can take is if Victor can somehow win veto and then HOH and also somehow Nicole, who thinks winning BB would be the best thing EVER, voting out James.

I hate this stupid show.  I say this every damn summer.  And still I watch.

[HeShallBMySquishy]

All of these people are loathsome, I don't want any of them to win.  Natalie was the last tolerable one.  None of these people have any redeeming qualities, despite the "America's sweethearts" edit Nicole and Corey have been getting all summer.  I just don't have anyone left to root for.

Spoiler

I'm sure that my reading the Live Feeds thread all summer has a lot to do with it.  I think a lot of opinions on a lot of houseguests would change if people knew the actual truth about a lot of them.

I was watching the show with my parents after Sunday dinner, and, just as I was mentally thinking Fuck You, Nicole, my mom says out loud, "Fuck you, Nicole!  You're an embarrassment to the female gender!"  Sing it, Mom!

I wonder if Voiceover Guy is embarrassed to be feigning excitement at saying Jatalie, Nicorey (and every other childishly stupid couple portmanteau) out loud?  I wonder if he goes home and sobs into a double vodka?

Yeah, you couldn't pay me half a million to be locked in a house that reeks of feet and B.O. all summer.  Even certain houseguests bedsheets smell of constant B.O.  I'd self-evict, go home and be gainfully employed, earning my own money.  Oh, I already am gainfully employed.

I guess the fact that any pair could make it to Final 2, and then not knowing who Jury would vote for would be mildly interesting, so there's something positive.  (Sigh....I just know I'll be back here June 2017 and, despite my bitching, will stay until September!)

[JudyObscure]

3 hours ago, HeShallBMySquishy said:

Yeah, you couldn't pay me half a million to be locked in a house that reeks of feet and B.O. all summer.  Even certain houseguests bedsheets smell of constant B.O.

And people eating cereal on top of those nasty bedsheets, with the smells of the milk and the body musk blending, and the piles of clutter overlaying the horrendously busy decorating, and the dirty dishes mixed with the hairbrushes on the tables. 

I actually loved Corey's cleaning montage, it satisfied something deep within me.  I also loved that Corey's dog looked like him -- the same pretty but plain face, topped with vacant, harmless eyes.  I'm rooting for Corey, now. 

[Skycatcher]

1 hour ago, JudyObscure said:

I actually loved Corey's cleaning montage, it satisfied something deep within me.  I also loved that Corey's dog looked like him -- the same pretty but plain face, topped with vacant, harmless eyes.  I'm rooting for Corey, now. 

I was wondering who the stranger was that was so vigorously cleaning house!  And then I fell a little bit in love with Corey. And his dog.  This HOH is showing a whole new Corey, and I like this one.

[ghoulina]

I really really hate the slip n side competitions. They just look so painful! Okay, I'll admit, if Paulie was still around I might have enjoyed it more. At least Victor had a good time watching; all he needed was some popcorn. When he said, about Corey, "The only thing that could stop him is a broken leg", I replied - "From your lips to God's ears". I know. I'm terrible. It didn't work anyhow.  Corey and his 15 foot long legs won. Big shock there. 

I did like that they slipped in some of James and Natalie's make-up. It seemed really sweet. I don't know what to think about those two. Sometimes I'm really rooting for them, other times I think they're acting like brats. 

So we haven't seen hardly any "Who wants to see my HOH room???" segments this year, but of course Corey gets one.  The he and Nicole bunk down again and watch the other houseguest's movements through the house like they're watching a football game. I don't know what it is about Corey, but he irks me so much. "Brah" is seriously 10x worse than "friendship" or "your boy", to me. 

I am glad he stuck to his guns and put up Paul and Vic. I mean, I'm not personally glad. I was rooting for those two. But for Corey, it's a wise game move. And I was glad he showed he had a mind of his own and didn't let Nicole talk him out of it. That girl is so cowardly! She cares more about being friends than playing the game. I can't stand either of them, but if they're the final 2, I'd give my vote to Corey. 

What was up with his frantic cleaning, though? Did he think that would appease the boys after they put him on the block? 

"Mama didn't raise no bitch". Your Taylor Swift CD says otherwise. 

[tricknasty]

That cleaning montage complete with dead eyed Corey talking to himself and horror movie music scared the crap out of me. I thought he was sleep walking and talking. Then he started cleaning

[ByaNose]

16 minutes ago, tricknasty said:

That cleaning montage complete with dead eyed Corey talking to himself and horror movie music scared the crap out of me. I thought he was sleep walking and talking. Then he started cleaning

That was a weird and odd edit. I guess since he was being ignored most of the season they needed something. I'm not sure what a cleaning edit has to do with possibly winning BB but I guess it's something. LOL!!!

[Slider]

If Corey nominates Victor and Paul it's just a game move.  If Natalie nominates Victor and Paul she's an idiot. WTF? Can casting find a single guy out there that isn't a sexist asshole?

[candall]

24 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

I really really hate the slip n side competitions. They just look so painful! Okay, I'll admit, if Paulie was still around I might have enjoyed it more. At least Victor had a good time watching; all he needed was some popcorn. When he said, about Corey, "The only thing that could stop him is a broken leg", I replied - "From your lips to God's ears". I know. I'm terrible. It didn't work anyhow.  Corey and his 15 foot long legs won. Big shock there. 

I did like that they slipped in some of James and Natalie's make-up. It seemed really sweet. I don't know what to think about those two. Sometimes I'm really rooting for them, other times I think they're acting like brats. 

So we haven't seen hardly any "Who wants to see my HOH room???" segments this year, but of course Corey gets one.  The he and Nicole bunk down again and watch the other houseguest's movements through the house like they're watching a football game. I don't know what it is about Corey, but he irks me so much. "Brah" is seriously 10x worse than "friendship" or "your boy", to me. 

I am glad he stuck to his guns and put up Paul and Vic. I mean, I'm not personally glad. I was rooting for those two. But for Corey, it's a wise game move. And I was glad he showed he had a mind of his own and didn't let Nicole talk him out of it. That girl is so cowardly! She cares more about being friends than playing the game. I can't stand either of them, but if they're the final 2, I'd give my vote to Corey. 

What was up with his frantic cleaning, though? Did he think that would appease the boys after they put him on the block? 

"Mama didn't raise no bitch". Your Taylor Swift CD says otherwise. 

So much good content here.  Where do you live?  Let's meet for cocktails, my treat.

--The slippery slope sliding made me crazy.  I suddenly find myself shuffling along inch by inch when it's icy outside because I can't afford to break a freaking BONE.  I was a young Gumby, like most kids, but even around the same age as these jokers, I got a concussion skiing and shattered my tailbone in a sitdown fall from elevator doors closing around my foot.

How do they let them do this?!  The runway paths must be composed of some kind of padded material.

--Agree that Corey's stuuuupid "brah's" and "bruh's" are the biggest articulation abomination of the show--and when you have Nicole stretching her vowels out like a tortured piano wire, that's saying a lot.

--I have a strong suspicion "Corey Cleans" is archived material they've been saving.

--Taylor Swift CD:  LOL

********

Nobody's commenting on James pussyfooting around a MARRIAGE PROPOSAL???   I wanted to dive under my covers, too, just out of embarrassment for him.  I think we can safely say the social experiment is a success--people do get a little stir crazy.

[ghoulina]

29 minutes ago, candall said:

So much good content here.  Where do you live?  Let's meet for cocktails, my treat.

Haha, BFE Iowa. We have a bank, a post office, and two bars. Sadly, I don't drink. 

Edited September 12, 2016 by ghoulina

[laprin]

The only way Corey doesn't win now is if Victor wins, takes himself off the block and then aligns with James to get Corey out. Of course, it would require James to grow some balls and turn against Nicole. 

[ghoulina]

1 minute ago, laprin said:

The only way Corey doesn't win now is if Victor wins, takes himself off the block and then aligns with James to get Corey out. Of course, it would require James to grow some balls and turn against Nicole. 

My favorite would be if James won Veto, pulled Vic or Paul off, and Corey was FORCED to put Nicole up. Then James and Vic/Paul vote her out. Oh man, I would just die. That won't happen, of course. But a girl can dream. 

[mojoween]

Oh my god brah.  That fucking word.  It makes me want to punch a puppy, that's how rage-inducing it is.  And I would never actually DO that.

[gunderda]

I have to admit - as much as I hate Nicole and Corey, I laughed a lot at the salt water segment when Nicole spit it all over Corey. 

[Primetimer]

When everyone left in the house is an ally, nominations are going to hurt some feelings. So why not hurt as many as possible?

View the full article

[ghoulina]

40 minutes ago, gunderda said:

 

I have to admit - as much as I hate Nicole and Corey, I laughed a lot at the salt water segment when Nicole spit it all over Corey. 

 

Yes, I laughed pretty hard. Nice karma, Corey. You salt her drink, she sprays it on you. 

[gunderda]

As much as a lot of people think that James' game play sucks... he is sitting REAL pretty right now. 

The only way he's screw is if Paul wins HOH next and Corey or Nicole win the veto.  Otherwise he's floating his way to F3. 

If i were him I wouldn't have tried to win this week either!! His "strategy" for this season has apparently worked. 

2 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

Yes, I laughed pretty hard. Nice karma, Corey. You salt her drink, she sprays it on you. 

And the awesome direct shot made it even more amazing. 

[Nashville]

14 hours ago, North of Eden said:

Paul is going to "take revenge" if Victor goes home? How are you going to do that exactly?

Ummm... Paul is going to be even more obnoxious and louder than usual?  Don't know if that's possible - but Paul may have depths in that arena which have yet to be plumbed, God help us.

 

13 hours ago, Wandering Snark said:

[James] could still sneak through and make it but I think it's all down to comps and we've already done the wall comp.

IIRC at least one of the comps in the Final HoH Triple Crown is usually an endurance comp.

 

1 hour ago, mojoween said:

Oh my god brah.  That fucking word.  It makes me want to punch a puppy, that's how rage-inducing it is.  And I would never actually DO that.

Desmond and Molly must be rolling over in their graves.  ;)

[ghoulina]

1 hour ago, gunderda said:

 

As much as a lot of people think that James' game play sucks... he is sitting REAL pretty right now. 

The only way he's screw is if Paul wins HOH next and Corey or Nicole win the veto.  Otherwise he's floating his way to F3. 

 

Yea, but then what? Even if he makes it to F2, who's going to vote for him? He has done next to nothing. I could have said the same for Nicole and Corey, but they're finally winning some HOHs and Corey is making some bold moves close to the end, when people will remember. I really don't see James being able to win against any of them at this point. He will be remembered for snuggling with Natalie and little else. 

[gunderda]

1 minute ago, ghoulina said:

Yea, but then what? Even if he makes it to F2, who's going to vote for him? He has done next to nothing. I could have said the same for Nicole and Corey, but they're finally winning some HOHs and Corey is making some bold moves close to the end, when people will remember. I really don't see James being able to win against any of them at this point. He will be remembered for snuggling with Natalie and little else. 

F3 he has as good of a shot as anyone to make it to F2.   He has a good chance to win endurance (I hope it's not the dumb swings against a wall) and the 3rd comp is a crap shoot.  Against Corey or Nicole he might have a shot.  Depends on how good of a public speaker he is.  Would he win against them? Probably not.  

However... I'd much rather sit on my ass and do nothing and get to the F3 than make myself a target. So you can't fault him for doing a strategy that apparently is working.  And for him doing next to nothing he was on a lot of people's minds to evict before Natalie.  The only reason Paul and Victor wanted her out over James is because she supposedly turned on James and they didn't respect that.  Nevermind that she was obviously pretty darn good at the competitions and close to winning many. 

[Wandering Snark]

4 minutes ago, gunderda said:

He has a good chance to win endurance (I hope it's not the dumb swings against a wall) and the 3rd comp is a crap shoot.

Ah yes, they haven't pulled that one out yet. I would expect some variation of that soon. Then somewhere they have the mental comp where they are in the circle divided in wedges and they step one direction for true and the other for false.

[Nashville]

7 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

Yea, but then what? Even if he makes it to F2, who's going to vote for him? 

If James is being realistic, it doesn't matter if the final Jury vote is 5-4 or 9-0, for or against him.  F2 is still a lock on at least $50K, even if James doesn't win.

[Lamima]

James might could win in an F2 depending who he's sitting next to and if the jurors vote for who they like more or refuse to vote for someone they despise.

[iMonrey]

While it's probably the best move for Corey and Nicole to target Victor and Paul, it's not so much "brilliant strategy" on their part as it is their inability to make up their freaking minds. They can't seem to decide what the hell they want to do from one week to the next. First they want a final four with James and Natalie. Then a week later they're like "Nope! Let's have a final four with Victor and Paul." Then a week after that it's like "Nope, let's work with James and get rid of Victor and Paul." I mean, there's something to be said for keeping your options open and readjusting your strategy, but we're talking about Corey and Nicole here. They just can't seem to decide what they want to do and they stumbled into good decision by default. There's no one left to flip to at this point.

While I'm no fan of Paul and Victor I'm more nauseated by the "America's Sweethearts!" edit Nicole and Corey are getting. The show is just so obsessed with show-mances and finding the next Jeff and Jordan or even (God help us) the next Brendon and Rachel you can practically feel the wetness off the TV screen over their two show-mances this season. We even got an extended clip of Natalie and James on an episode after she's been voted out, just to be sure we all know they kissed and made up and could possibly get married some day and have babies and come back for All-Stars and interviews with Julie.

Ugh. Quit shoving these damn show-mances down my throat. It's not the be-all and end-all of the show like the producers seem to think it is. Not everyone watches for that.

[Cosmocrush]

4 hours ago, candall said:

Nobody's commenting on James pussyfooting around a MARRIAGE PROPOSAL???   I wanted to dive under my covers, too, just out of embarrassment for him.  I think we can safely say the social experiment is a success--people do get a little stir crazy.

If you mean in the conversation between James and Natalie, I thought the "word" James was alluding to was love, as in "I love you" not a marriage proposal.   They are always saying how much they like each other and I think James was talking about wanting to say how much he "loves" her instead. 

[gunderda]

1 hour ago, Wandering Snark said:

Ah yes, they haven't pulled that one out yet. I would expect some variation of that soon. Then somewhere they have the mental comp where they are in the circle divided in wedges and they step one direction for true and the other for false.

I think that was the F3 endurance last year which I thought was stupid (swinging against a wall).  

My favorite F3 endurance was Jordan's season where they were on a rolling log (or something) and they had to hold onto their key above them. (At least I think that was that season?)

6 minutes ago, Cosmocrush said:

If you mean in the conversation between James and Natalie, I thought the "word" James was alluding to was love, as in "I love you" not a marriage proposal.   They are always saying how much they like each other and I think James was talking about wanting to say how much he "loves" her instead. 

Yea he was definitely hinting at "love" 

[laurakaye]

4 hours ago, tricknasty said:

That cleaning montage complete with dead eyed Corey talking to himself and horror movie music scared the crap out of me. I thought he was sleep walking and talking. Then he started cleaning

I absolutely thought he was sitting there staring at the Memory Wall, sound asleep.  If he'd have started chanting "Harry Potter, Harry Potter," I would've screamed and thrown the covers over my head.

During the very first episode, I singled out Corey to go far, based on nothing other than he didn't seem like the typical crazy famehoor this show frequently employs, and because I like baseball.  Then, as time went on, I grew to hate his vapidness.  Now, I foresee him winning this game and I dislike him a little less.

And wasn't it initially Nicole's idea to put up Paul and Victor?  So she plants the seed in Corey's dusty brain, then proceeds to freak out when he claims he's actually going to go through with it?  I cannot stand Nicole.  I actually fist-pumped the air when Paul's mug appeared below Victor's.  As Corey says, gotta play Big Brother, not Big Baby.  LOLZ.

[iMonrey]

I think Nicole is just acutely aware of how the audience perceives her and doesn't want to be portrayed as a "back-stabber" because she knows damn well the show is trying to prop her up as the next Jordan. So she makes sure she blubbers and whines in the DR about how awful it is and how bad she feels so the audience will still love her and think she's America's Sweetheart. 

The thing is, I did like Jordan, who was dim but sweet, but Jordan seemed more genuine to me, like she couldn't help how she behaved. With Nicole I feel as though she chooses to talk like a 12-year old, and it's not cute.

[laurakaye]

I find it funny that, when production uses interior shots of the house to segue between segments, it's always spotlessly clean and organized...then, they'll show the houseguests hanging out in a room that has clothes all over the floor and musty, twisted sheets that probably haven't been washed since Day One.  All I could think of when Corey was cleaning the kitchen was - if the kitchen is that gross, what must it be like to use the communal toilet and shower?

And then I gagged, and tried to drink away the imagery out of my brain.

[ghoulina]

1 hour ago, Cosmocrush said:

If you mean in the conversation between James and Natalie, I thought the "word" James was alluding to was love, as in "I love you" not a marriage proposal.   They are always saying how much they like each other and I think James was talking about wanting to say how much he "loves" her instead. 

Yes, that's what I took away from it as well. And I thought it was adorable. My husband and I started out long distance and it got to a point where we could tell that we loved each other, but we made a deal to wait until we were in person next to say anything. So when we got off the phone we'd say "goodbye....and other things". And that was like our little code. James's conversation with Natalie reminded me of that. 

[candall]

Love?  Not marriage?

Oops, okay, I guess that's why there's no internet-wide hullaballoo. 

I don't watch feeds, but James has been wallowing around there like a lovesick dog for weeks--I just assumed he'd already whispered that sweet nothing in her ear.  Huh.

[K-9]

Was Corey's cleaning montage done as an homage to a certain film-maker's style?  Corey's montage reminded me a little of this powerful scene from "Order of the Phoenix" in which Harry Potter was possessed by Voldemort: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_Fbwh384WQ

[Guest]

2 hours ago, laurakaye said:

I find it funny that, when production uses interior shots of the house to segue between segments, it's always spotlessly clean and organized...then, they'll show the houseguests hanging out in a room that has clothes all over the floor and musty, twisted sheets that probably haven't been washed since Day One.  All I could think of when Corey was cleaning the kitchen was - if the kitchen is that gross, what must it be like to use the communal toilet and shower?

And then I gagged, and tried to drink away the imagery out of my brain.

That always struck me as odd, too.  The living room is always spotless for "Julie" stuff... couch pillows perfectly arranged and plumped, no personal items lying around, no drinks, etc.  But the bedrooms are always a disaster.  It reminds me of teens living at home who must keep the 'adult' rooms in order but can live like pigs behind their own closed doors.