S11.E10: Shock And Roll

[BloggerAloud]

If I was Meghan I would've gone. Not because I was super elated to be there but because you're being filmed for a reality show so some of your normal behavior would be tempered with how this would come across on television. I mean, everything else is so scripted, why not this.

[zulualpha]

2 hours ago, MatildaMoody said:

I'm kind of torn on Megan thing. I really dislike her so maybe that's the bias. But I don't think anyone was asking her to sit by Vicki's bed and hold her hand. They were asking her as someone close by to check on her and provide info on her condition. 

Even if you believe Vicki was exaggerating, getting air lifted to a hospital is fucking scary and Heather, Tamra, and Kelly had no idea what her condition was. Would it have killed Megan to take an hour out of her day to find out what Vicki's status was and reassure her and Vicki's friends about when Vicki would be released or if she was going to have prolonged stay. 

For God's sake Megan spent more time than that investigating the health claims of a man she didn't know, because Justice! But she couldn't take some time to put the minds of her supposed friends at ease while they are still in shock from an accident that resulted in two people being hurt and one of them being fucking airlifted to the hospital? 

Just becuase it needs to be Said, Shut Up Megan!

I was kind of meh on Megan until this epi now I actively dislike her.  Either you're the kind of person that cares enough to where in this particular emergency possibly tragic situation you would go slightly out of your way to go to the hospital and find out what was happening or you're the type of person like Megan and Jim that sneered "no way" and didn't give it a second thought.  I don't buy that they wouldn't have been allowed to see Vicki, they absolutely would have imo.  All Vicki had to say was yes I'll take visitors and boom they're in.  Then they say a couple of kind words on behalf of the cast and leave.  It's called not being a douche, having a smidgen of kindness, manners whatever.

As far as Brianna is concerned, I'm not judging her until I hear what really went down with her.  I'm guessing she called Vicki or Vicki called her first and told her what the deal was and that it was okay not to drop everything and drive to Palm Springs from OC.

[ScoobieDoobs]

8 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

Regarding whether Meghan should have visited Vicki:

I had surgery for a soft ball sized ovarian cyst, which ended up being an endometrioma, and resulted in an oophorectomy.  No one had any warning because I went to the ER immediately following an abdominal ultrasound - because the radiologist ordered an additional transvaginal ultrasound, and the tech had a really bad poker face.  While waiting to go into surgery, I was able to reach my cousin and good friend (who couldn't make it pre-op), but couldn't reach my mom.  I had been in such pain for so long that I was actually so relieved to go into surgery, but I was unnerved by the surgeon telling me cancer was a possibility.  Anyway, I would have wanted nothing to do with a frenemy, and I actually took a nap while I was waiting.  Then right before I was taken into surgery, I heard the voice of a former co-worker that I always loved.  I'm not touchy feely, and I have a large personal space, but I hugged on that girl like crazy.  But if she was a co-worker I didn't care for, I would have hidden in my room and not sought her out.  No thanks.

Well, this is a good perspective from someone who was hospitalized.  BUT we're talkin' about Vile Vicks the cancer scammer here.  What Meghan deprived her of, by not going to see her, was Vicks' precious cam time -- and some ridiculously hokey & phony-baloney scene where she could whine & cry & say, "boo-hoo-hoo, poor, poor, poor me" & "oh, by the way, see how easily easily accidents can happen, so buy insurance from me".

9 hours ago, corter20 said:

This! I don't want to excuse his "flatness", but he is a baseball player. My husband played baseball prior to joining the military and he exhibited the same flat, douchebag behavior that Jimmy does. Everyone I have met that played baseball had this arrogant, dullness to them. 

I don't think he is jumping for joy over the pregnancy, but I also don't think it a game ending play for him either. I think what we see on camera is a guy who lacks emotions and has a poor filter. His Instagram is the same exact way except with a little more affection towards Meghan. 

So is it possible asshole Jimmy isn't really an asshole at all?  Eh, I'm not buying it.  But I'll take this perspective into consideration next time I notice him ignoring Meghan or grimacing when she tries to get anywhere near him or the way he ALWAYS spaces out when she talks to him about anything, let alone this baby she must know she's gonna raise on her own.  Does this attitude explain why he's been married so many times?  Maybe he's treated the other wives the same way we see he treats Meghan & they get fed up with it & leave?  Whatever the explanation for him seeming like such an absolute asshole . . . sheesh, he still seems like a total asshole, and a mostly cranky & unpleasant one at that.  I was completely confused by his "joking" about David & Shannon.  He's so often cranky & unpleasant, I expect him to ALWAYS be this way & I'm surprised when he isn't.

[WireWrap]

29 minutes ago, zulualpha said:

I was kind of meh on Megan until this epi now I actively dislike her.  Either you're the kind of person that cares enough to where in this particular emergency possibly tragic situation you would go slightly out of your way to go to the hospital and find out what was happening or you're the type of person like Megan and Jim that sneered "no way" and didn't give it a second thought.  I don't buy that they wouldn't have been allowed to see Vicki, they absolutely would have imo.  All Vicki had to say was yes I'll take visitors and boom they're in.  Then they say a couple of kind words on behalf of the cast and leave.  It's called not being a douche, having a smidgen of kindness, manners whatever.

As far as Brianna is concerned, I'm not judging her until I hear what really went down with her.  I'm guessing she called Vicki or Vicki called her first and told her what the deal was and that it was okay not to drop everything and drive to Palm Springs from OC.

No, had Meghan gone, she would have sat in the waiting room until Vicki was fully assessed by the ER Dr.'s and sent for X rays, MRI and her CT scan first. All of which would have taken hours to happen. So, she is expected to sit in a waiting room for about 3- 4 hours in hopes that Vicki approves her to go and sit with her? I don't think so. LOL

[WireWrap]

12 minutes ago, ScoobieDoobs said:

Well, this is a good perspective from someone who was hospitalized.  BUT we're talkin' about Vile Vicks the cancer scammer here.  What Meghan deprived her of, by not going to see her, was Vicks' precious cam time -- and some ridiculously hokey & phony-baloney scene where she could whine & cry & say, "boo-hoo-hoo, poor, poor, poor me" & "oh, by the way, see how easily easily accidents can happen, so buy insurance from me".

So is it possible asshole Jimmy isn't really an asshole at all?  Eh, I'm not buying it.  But I'll take this perspective into consideration next time I notice him ignoring Meghan or grimacing when she tries to get anywhere near him or the way he ALWAYS spaces out when she talks to him about anything, let alone this baby she must know she's gonna raise on her own.  Does this attitude explain why he's been married so many times?  Maybe he's treated the other wives the same way we see he treats Meghan & they get fed up with it & leave?  Whatever the explanation for him seeming like such an absolute asshole . . . sheesh, he still seems like a total asshole, and a mostly cranky & unpleasant one at that.  I was completely confused by his "joking" about David & Shannon.  He's so often cranky & unpleasant, I expect him to ALWAYS be this way & I'm surprised when he isn't.

Seriously, no hospital would allow a reality TV show to just appear and film an actual emergency! LOL No way, No how would this hospital OK cameras in her ER room. LOL

[ScoobieDoobs]

Maybe if Vicks screeched enough, she thinks she could make it happen?  Did she ever get that family van?

[DebbieM4]

On 9/6/2016 at 1:11 AM, zoeysmom said:

Where was her son Michael?   San Diego to Palm Springs is about a two hour drive.  It is up to Vicki's kids to be there for her. 

Why do people need updates?  She had a CT Scan and an MRI-should there have been live reporters?  She was in the hospital for nine hours, I think her family could have managed.  

Jim and Meghan should not have even been put on the spot.

They didn't know at the time that Vicki would only be there for 9 hours.  They didn't know what was going on at all.  And no one was put on the spot.  Heather didn't even ask them to go.  She just asked how far away they were from the hospital, and hoped that Meghan would offer.  But she didn't.

I absolutely think Meghan should have gone.  As one human being to another, I would certainly be there in a situation like that when no one else would be able to get there for hours.   And this wouldn't have been a routine hospital visit.  It was an emergency situation, and no one knew how badly hurt Vicki was.  I also think from a PR point of view, Meghan should have gone, and it was stupid for her not to.  Far better to be viewed as a caring person than as someone who would turn her back on not only Vicki but friends and family who were concerned about her.  In a situation like that, we should be able to count on others to do the right thing.

Edited September 7, 2016 by DebbieM4

[yourmomiseasy]

1 hour ago, zulualpha said:

I was kind of meh on Megan until this epi now I actively dislike her.  Either you're the kind of person that cares enough to where in this particular emergency possibly tragic situation you would go slightly out of your way to go to the hospital and find out what was happening or you're the type of person like Megan and Jim that sneered "no way" and didn't give it a second thought.  I don't buy that they wouldn't have been allowed to see Vicki, they absolutely would have imo.  All Vicki had to say was yes I'll take visitors and boom they're in.  Then they say a couple of kind words on behalf of the cast and leave.  It's called not being a douche, having a smidgen of kindness, manners whatever.

As far as Brianna is concerned, I'm not judging her until I hear what really went down with her.  I'm guessing she called Vicki or Vicki called her first and told her what the deal was and that it was okay not to drop everything and drive to Palm Springs from OC.

So it's okay for Vicki's own daughter not to go, but someone that isn't even her friend should have dropped everything and headed over?

There probably wasn't a room or anything to visit Vicky in.  When I was in an accident and went to the ER when I wasn't waiting for an MRI or CT or Xray, I was sitting in a hallway strapped down to a gurney.  Anyone that came to see me would have been in the way.  I didn't even bother to tell anyone I'd been in an accident until all the tests had been run and I'd been discharged.  Why worry my family needlessly?  Also, I couldn't make calls since I was strapped down :)

Edited September 7, 2016 by yourmomiseasy

[smores]

Look, a friend of mine could call me and tell me that someone they know was passing through my town and was in a car accident and their husband/wife/parent/sister/whatever was on their way, but it would take 6 hours for them to get to the hospital.  And my answer would be, I'll be out the door in 10 minutes, text me the whatever's phone #.  Sometimes you do something that isn't comfortable because it's the right thing to do.  It's just the right thing.  Vicki was likely hyping up a whole bunch of symptoms, and she's been nasty as hell to everyone, but she's still a person, and she was flown in, from a crash, and that's just a scary, lonely situation.  You go.  Tomorrow you still aren't friends, but for right now, you show up, make sure things are ok, info is conducted to who it needs to go to, get magazines, etc.  I do not consider myself a super nice person, but there is no one in this world that I hate enough to leave alone and scared in a situation like that.

It's also totally not like just going to visit your coworker who had their appendix out.  This is more like stopping to help a stranger on the road who got in a car crash.  That's more the way I see it.  You'd stop, do everything you could to help.  In this case, the everything you could would be to take a quick trip to the hospital and make sure Vicki was ok.

[tenativelyyours]

I fail to see exactly what Meghan was going to actually "do" to help.  In an accident, you can at least be physically present for the victims, call for help, hopefully provide needed items such as blankets, water and even first aide items.  You could hold that person's hand even if they wanted physical contact.  I know people have to exist who don't have a clue, but I think pretty much everyone I do know, realizes how restrictive hospitals are as to who can just walk in and take a seat next to the admitted for treatment victim.  Unless after hanging up her P.I. shingle, Meghan went out and got a medical degree in emergency medicine, there pretty much is a good chance Meghan would have first seen and heard anything about Vicki that ninth hour when she was released.  So no,  not like a visit to a recovering patient.  But even more no to being like helping an accident victim at the site of the accident.  Not even close.  More like a helicopter flight and a lone vigil in a waiting room distant. 

What Meghan could have provided by going was nothing more than a rather meaningless and accomplish nothing 'gesture'. 

Well I have a gesture for Vicki too. 

[Ubiquitous]

7 hours ago, KLovestoShop said:

I have to comment about Shannon and her house sale.  This was supposedly her dream house, so why sell?  Are they in financial trouble?   And , when you put your house on the market, don't you have a plan for another house?  If she's selling with most of her furniture, then what's the big freaking deal with packing in 13 days?  There are such things as movers who will pack everything up in a day or two. 

I wondered why they hadn't already started to pack things in preparation for the move.

[Nanny pants]

Dear god.  Vicki.  The accident seemed like a dream come true for her...center of attention?  Check.  "Minor" yet somehow "life-threatening" injury?  Check.  Airlift?  Check.  Redemption from last season?  Maybe.

[Beden]

1 minute ago, Nanny pants said:

Dear god.  Vicki.  The accident seemed like a dream come true for her...center of attention?  Check.  "Minor" yet somehow "life-threatening" injury?  Check.  Airlift?  Check.  Redemption from last season?  Maybe.

Redemption for lying, repeating lies, shrieking while repeating lies. Denying lies. Denying she ever knew anything about the lies she endlessly repeated. Demanding apologies for her lies not being believed. Insisting she's the victim of the lies because she was blinded by love. Insisting she's owed apologies for what she had to endure while she was lying. Never accepting any kind of responsibility for her endless lies and demands for sympathy. Assuming that the lies are now water under the bridge and she doesn't even talk to the cancer faker anyway...except she calls him when stressed...or when it's, I dunno, Tuesday. Insisting that the remaining HW's are simply jealous bitches and she's being crucified like Jesus.

Redemption? Um...no.

[RHJunkie]

I'm confused with some of the expectations on Meghan to go to the ER to check on Vicki. On two occasions I had family members that were rushed to the hospital via ambulance. I went with them and yet when I arrived there, I was separated from them while the doctors handled their business. I sat in a waiting room for hours not knowing what was going on and I'm pretty damn sure had I not been family, I wouldn't have been told anything about their condition once the doctors had done their assessment. I doubt Meghan would have been given any information. I still hold that not rushing to the ER is not a horrible thing on Meghan's part (though I'm sure with the optics she'll still be judged negatively for it).

Maybe it's because I'm not fake and I don't lack accountability like Vicki but if I were in the ER, I wouldn't want to be surrounded by anyone I don't get along with and make fake pleasantries with them.

[motorcitymom65]

11 minutes ago, RHJunkie said:

I'm confused with some of the expectations on Meghan to go to the ER to check on Vicki. On two occasions I had family members that were rushed to the hospital via ambulance. I went with them and yet when I arrived there, I was separated from them while the doctors handled their business. I sat in a waiting room for hours not knowing what was going on and I'm pretty damn sure had I not been family, I wouldn't have been told anything about their condition once the doctors had done their assessment. I doubt Meghan would have been given any information. I still hold that not rushing to the ER is not a horrible thing on Meghan's part (though I'm sure with the optics she'll still be judged negatively for it).

Maybe it's because I'm not fake and I don't lack accountability like Vicki but if I were in the ER, I wouldn't want to be surrounded by anyone I don't get along with and make fake pleasantries with them.

But the thing is, Meghan didn't enunciate any of this. She acted like she was unconcerned about Vicki. Like it was no big thing. I think that is what surprised Heather; that she didn't seem to care at all. She could have said, let's give it some time and see what the situation is, and maybe we can head over later. She could have said, do you think we should go and be with her? She didn't say that she wouldn't be able to see her, wouldn't be able to help. All of those are real things, but in the moment, the moment she was getting the news, she didn't really seem to care. That is the thing. 

[Juliegirlj]

Unless he is a surfer in Hawaii, there is nothing worse than seeing a grown man wearing flip flops- especially when they can't walk in them. I was so hoping Jimmy would trip in the Dr's office!! 

If none of Vicki's family or friends outside the show were compelled to rush to her side, I don't know why Megan and Jimmy should be expected to. It isn't like they are close friends, and Megan is a stone cold woman- she doesn't fake any warm fuzzies. 

Heather told Terry that Vicki and Tamra lost consciousness- which doesn't appear to be the case. Vicki's loud wrenching was a big giveaway that she was laying it on thick. I would have been more concerned about Kelly, who was right next to Vicki in the back and because her helmet flew off had no protection for her head and neck. She looked like she got tossed around pretty badly, so kudos to her for being tough. 

[KLovestoShop]

Here's my perspective on Meghan.  She was fully pissed about the lies of Brooks and Vicki, and she knows Vicki's drama queen personality whenever it comes to her life, so maybe Meghan felt that this was just another one of Vicki's over reactions.   I agree with Juliegirlj who said it appeared Vicki never lost consciousness, and knowing she was released 9 hours later, points to the fact that the injuries weren't all that severe.  For anyone who's been in an ER, we know a lot of it is sit and wait.  Plus, there's a lot of wait time for tests.  Regardless, Meghan is going to take a lot of shit for a his in upcoming episodes.  

I also didn't like Tamra's reaction to Meghan not going to Glamis.  For God's sake, the woman went through a lot to get pregnant, she's married to an asshole and she's in the first trimester, where miscarriage is frequent, so I don't blame her for going.  

While I don't know Briana's health, I can't help but get the feeling she's inherited her mom's penchant for being a drama queen.  

[Bronzedog]

Megan was also with Jim when she got the call about Vicki.  Last season Vicki announced at a public event that they would be divorced within 4 years (or was it 7?  I'm not sure).  Anyway, if I was Jim, I would have said, " Umm, we're not ruining our trip for her".  In know some people say they would have been more forgiving. I would have been "Call Michael."

[yogi2014L]

1 hour ago, Juliegirlj said:

Unless he is a surfer in Hawaii, there is nothing worse than seeing a grown man wearing flip flops- especially when they can't walk in them. I was so hoping Jimmy would trip in the Dr's office!! 

If none of Vicki's family or friends outside the show were compelled to rush to her side, I don't know why Megan and Jimmy should be expected to. It isn't like they are close friends, and Megan is a stone cold woman- she doesn't fake any warm fuzzies. 

Heather told Terry that Vicki and Tamra lost consciousness- which doesn't appear to be the case. Vicki's loud wrenching was a big giveaway that she was laying it on thick. I would have been more concerned about Kelly, who was right next to Vicki in the back and because her helmet flew off had no protection for her head and neck. She looked like she got tossed around pretty badly, so kudos to her for being tough. 

Yeah I was watching the footage and it seemed Kelly bonked her un-helmeted head with Vicki's helmet, too. She could have been seriously injured. 

Im actually excited for the Meghan vs Heather Showdown. It'll be interesting to see two people who can effectively communicate go at it vs Vicki style screaming in everyone's face.

[beaker73]

God Vicki is so dramatic and ridiculous with all her yelling and screeching and gagging when Kelly was getting sick.  You have a guy driving a giant RV up a winding mountain road, so yeah, GREAT idea to be yelling and carrying on you stupid cow.

Could Jimmy be any less excited that Meg’s pregnant? At least she seems that she’s starting to recognize that she’ll eventually be a single mom.

I may be going to hell, but I was rolling my eyes watching Vicki after the accident.  She’s such a liar and drama queen about everything I can only barely believe she was being genuine about her injuries.

I like Nicky.  Who knew Madam Fancy Pants and Dr. Fame Whore could produce such a cool kid?

Yeah, I have no problem with Megan not offering to drive 45 minutes to see Vicki. 

[Snarky McSnarky]

2 minutes ago, beaker73 said:

I may be going to hell, but I was rolling my eyes watching Vicki after the accident.  She’s such a liar and drama queen about everything I can only barely believe she was being genuine about her injuries.

 

She's cried "Wolf" too many times.

[beaker73]

Just now, Snarky McSnarky said:

She's cried "Wolf" too many times.

That's it exactly.  

[RHJunkie]

3 hours ago, motorcitymom65 said:

But the thing is, Meghan didn't enunciate any of this. She acted like she was unconcerned about Vicki. Like it was no big thing. I think that is what surprised Heather; that she didn't seem to care at all. She could have said, let's give it some time and see what the situation is, and maybe we can head over later. She could have said, do you think we should go and be with her? She didn't say that she wouldn't be able to see her, wouldn't be able to help. All of those are real things, but in the moment, the moment she was getting the news, she didn't really seem to care. That is the thing. 

I wouldn't say she didn't care at all. If you don't care at all, your instincts aren't to react shocked upon hearing the misfortune of someone else. If her feelings for Vicki truly desensitized her from Vicki's situation, I believe the more expected reaction would have been more nonchalant with a shrug and a 'that sucks'. It would have been far more cold - kind of like her blank looks each time Vicki was crying about Brooks' cancer. Meghan didn't buy it and she couldn't even muster an ounce of fake pleasantry to appease Vicki. Heather's insinuations were evident soon into the conversation and Meghan didn't miss a beat on picking up on it. THAT is what shifted her demeanor in the conversation. There's a reason why Heather didn't come out and ask Meghan if she would be okay to go to the hospital to check on Vicki and that was a manipulative move on Heather's part. Yeah, so in the very moment she got the news, there was some care there. In the moment that Heather began her insinuations, the guard went up and Meghan responded in kind to Heather's approached and also danced around the issue rather than call Heather on it on what she was trying to say.

Edit: And as callous as it sounds, you do in fact reap what you sow. When you constantly make yourself the victim in a display of theatrics, people with less tolerance for BS are going to eventually stop giving you any benefit of the doubt. When your behaviour ostracizes you from others, the judgement shouldn't be on the person who makes the decision that their life is happier without that kind of behaviour in it. Vicki's issues with Meghan were that she didn't work and that she dared to feel like she loved her step children just as if they were own. Meghan doesn't like Vicki because she constantly cried about her boyfriends fake cancer, she criticized her intelligence, her ability as a mother and dared to judge her marriage when she's had failed marriages and dishonest relationships with men. The differences in their list of grievances is pretty stark.

Edited September 7, 2016 by RHJunkie

[SweetieDarling]

3 hours ago, motorcitymom65 said:

But the thing is, Meghan didn't enunciate any of this. She acted like she was unconcerned about Vicki. Like it was no big thing. I think that is what surprised Heather; that she didn't seem to care at all. She could have said, let's give it some time and see what the situation is, and maybe we can head over later. She could have said, do you think we should go and be with her? She didn't say that she wouldn't be able to see her, wouldn't be able to help. All of those are real things, but in the moment, the moment she was getting the news, she didn't really seem to care. That is the thing. 

Maybe Jim's flat unemotional personality is rubbing off on her

[ElDosEquis]

Actually, Maybe it was for the better that no one went to see Bicki.

The more I thought about this, the more I began to remember the morons who came to visit a patient and were fucking intolerable.

There are rules and etiquette about visiting people who have been hospitalized but is seems that no one follows, them.

And while the regular patients were bad, the fucking employees always thought that since they worked there, they were afforded some kind of special pass to break the rules. THEY WERE THE WORST OFFENDERS, COMPLAINERS and general assholes.

One of the biggest irritants are the people who would constantly stick their head in thru a doorway asking about a patient.

If we knew we would tell you, go get a drink, smoke a ciggie, go eat.

In order to get a release to film inside a building is a PITA, Even the sales reps had to sign individual releases to be in the OR just to assist a surgeon.

Every time they came in.

I do see both sides, but I'd have told everyone to chingar a sus madre, I'll make it on my own.

(If I could afford to call a service to drive me home, I could just a soon buy, and pay for, the mourners if I didn't make it.)

[ElDosEquis]

37 minutes ago, RHJunkie said:

I wouldn't say she didn't care at all. If you don't care at all, your instincts aren't to react shocked upon hearing the misfortune of someone else. If her feelings for Vicki truly desensitized her from Vicki's situation, I believe the more expected reaction would have been more nonchalant with a shrug and a 'that sucks'. It would have been far more cold - kind of like her blank looks each time Vicki was crying about Brooks' cancer. Meghan didn't buy it and she couldn't even muster an ounce of fake pleasantry to appease Vicki. Heather's insinuations were evident soon into the conversation and Meghan didn't miss a beat on picking up on it. THAT is what shifted her demeanor in the conversation. There's a reason why Heather didn't come out and ask Meghan if she would be okay to go to the hospital to check on Vicki and that was a manipulative move on Heather's part. Yeah, so in the very moment she got the news, there was some care there. In the moment that Heather began her insinuations, the guard went up and Meghan responded in kind to Heather's approached and also danced around the issue rather than call Heather on it on what she was trying to say.

Edit: And as callous as it sounds, you do in fact reap what you sow. When you constantly make yourself the victim in a display of theatrics, people with less tolerance for BS are going to eventually stop giving you any benefit of the doubt. When your behaviour ostracizes you from others, the judgement shouldn't be on the person who makes the decision that their life is happier without that kind of behaviour in it. Vicki's issues with Meghan were that she didn't work and that she dared to feel like she loved her step children just as if they were own. Meghan doesn't like Vicki because she constantly cried about her boyfriends fake cancer, she criticized her intelligence, her ability as a mother and dared to judge her marriage when she's had failed marriages and dishonest relationships with men. The differences in their list of grievances is pretty stark.

One of the things that made me crazy is pleather's insistence on being the 'messenger' (did someone miss a chance to kill this one?)

I am a HUGE stickler about personal health info - and this includes people being a pipeline for info.

While I WOULD want to know about someone I knew having an accident? I think that NOK should be first to be called, but only AFTER something definite IS known?

Pulling out your wireless and going thru your phone list just paints you as a big mouth.

Her 'It looks serious, but....."

She may have passed the test as a 'first responder', but being married to a doctor doesn't mean that she'd know better.

Any of these cows, had they been in vicki's shoes, WOULD want waiting room filled with cameras, paps and their co-working snobs to drop everything and 'be there' for them.............the are, after all, reality 'stars'.

[Giselle]

12 hours ago, WireWrap said:

No, had Meghan gone, she would have sat in the waiting room until Vicki was fully assessed by the ER Dr.'s and sent for X rays, MRI and her CT scan first. All of which would have taken hours to happen. So, she is expected to sit in a waiting room for about 3- 4 hours in hopes that Vicki approves her to go and sit with her? I don't think so. LOL

 

 

And after all that waiting then to be told. "Are you family? No? Sorry by law we're not allowed to give out that information."

Edited September 7, 2016 by Giselle
PTV posting is messed up on moble

[Beden]

55 minutes ago, RHJunkie said:

Vicki's issues with Meghan were that she didn't work and that she dared to feel like she loved her step children just as if they were own.

Plus, more to the point, she seriously and repeatedly questioned Brooks cancer--and was right. It would have likely come out eventually but Megan was the one who mainly pushed the issue and the lies, refusing to back down. By doing so she may well have jeopardized Vicki's place on the show and, more importantly, the income generated by it.

[WireWrap]

4 hours ago, motorcitymom65 said:

But the thing is, Meghan didn't enunciate any of this. She acted like she was unconcerned about Vicki. Like it was no big thing. I think that is what surprised Heather; that she didn't seem to care at all. She could have said, let's give it some time and see what the situation is, and maybe we can head over later. She could have said, do you think we should go and be with her? She didn't say that she wouldn't be able to see her, wouldn't be able to help. All of those are real things, but in the moment, the moment she was getting the news, she didn't really seem to care. That is the thing. 

Well, lets also remember editing. I am sure there was more to this conversation that what we saw, so we don't know what was edited out. LOL

[KungFuBunny]

I’ve been to the ER multiple times as the family member travelling with the patient or travelling to the hospital to meet the patient there. I was allowed in the ER only because I am the Health Care Proxy agent on file. When you first go in, and sign in, you register and submit all medical health insurance, there is another section called the triage – taking the patient vitals, medication info, DOB, current health issue.  Depending on the person’s age and medical crisis – you are in a holding pattern for a bed in the ER. Once the patient was in the bed, I was allowed to stay throughout only because I was also the “translator”. There were times I was sent back out to the waiting area when the patient was gurneyed off for x-ray, cat scans, MRI or other procedures - for security purposes, you can not have a non patient, non medical employee wandering around the ER unattended.

Even if Meghan went to the Palm Springs, the hospital would not have been allowed to give her ANY information. Nor would she have been allowed to see Vicki. She would be lucky if they would even “confirm” that Vicki was there.  If I were Meghan the only reason I would have gone was not to bring Vicki a casserole, but to bring her some lovely Miss Hilly’s Chocolate Pie.

[ScoobieDoobs]

On 9/5/2016 at 11:30 PM, 100PercentPain said:

Vicki seriously used the accident to try to sell insurance in her blog. I just... The fact that a person like Vicki even exists amazes me in new ways every single week. 

She also mentioned that September is "life insurance awareness month". Uh. 

And the biggest chunk of her blog was dedicated to how mean Meghan was for not coming to see her and how sorry for her we all need to feel because she had to ride home in hospital socks. Without casseroles. 

I don't bother with the blogs, does anyone know if Meghan responded to Vile Vicks' crapola?  I think she should say -- Listen, hun, I ain't a nun & it's not on me to wait around in an ER for hours, but maybe I might have done that if you didn't treat me like crap & say shitty things about me & to me & you weren't a slimey cancer scammer.

Was Meghan cold about not going to see Vicks?  Absolutely NOT!  I still think this is something that should ONLY be expected of close family & maybe close (only very close) friends to do.  Vicks is an ass for saying Meghan was "mean" to not go to the ER.

True, Meghan barely could care that Vicks was even in an accident.  And who the heck can blame her?  Shrugging hard cuz Vicks set this up by being the horrible woman she is.  This isn't really at all about Meghan being cold or mean.  It goes back to Vicks & who she is.  Look, I guess horrible people like Vicks or Bethenny can depend on the kindness of the few saintly people left out there.  Yeah, good luck with that, Vicks (and Bethenny).

[KungFuBunny]

Meghan and Jim at the doctor’s office. Nurse is taking blood.

Jim: Is there Lamaze for blood letting?

Yeah Jim, the classes are taught by Eric Northman and it’s called Glamouring.

 

Since Meghan is so afraid of needles – will she refuse the epidural when she goes into labor?

[Giselle]

55 minutes ago, KungFuBunny said:

I’ve been to the ER multiple times as the family member travelling with the patient or travelling to the hospital to meet the patient there. I was allowed in the ER only because I am the Health Care Proxy agent on file. When you first go in, and sign in, you register and submit all medical health insurance, there is another section called the triage – taking the patient vitals, medication info, DOB, current health issue.  Depending on the person’s age and medical crisis – you are in a holding pattern for a bed in the ER. Once the patient was in the bed, I was allowed to stay throughout only because I was also the “translator”. There were times I was sent back out to the waiting area when the patient was gurneyed off for x-ray, cat scans, MRI or other procedures - for security purposes, you can not have a non patient, non medical employee wandering around the ER unattended.

Even if Meghan went to the Palm Springs, the hospital would not have been allowed to give her ANY information. Nor would she have been allowed to see Vicki. She would be lucky if they would even “confirm” that Vicki was there.  If I were Meghan the only reason I would have gone was not to bring Vicki a casserole, but to bring her some lovely Miss Hilly’s Chocolate Pie.

Exactly. Vicki deserves to eat that entire pie all by her special self. My dad and years earlier my mom were always in and out of hospitals, doctors offices, skilled care facilities. Not only was a medical power of attorney on file I carried copies with me and made available the original if they needed to see it. My dad when able, would make sure to state verbally and sign if needed, that I could know everything and make decisions even with a MPOA on file. I usually stayed with him in the ER room but stayed out of the way if they were working with him.

Meghan's pregnancy was her first and after all she went through to get pregnant I can understand her not wanting to jeopardize it in any way. I'm not going to knock her for not going to Glamis to sit around a campfire 2 hours away from medical care nor sit in a hospital ER waiting room exposed to god knows what for hours on end while pregnant waiting for a coworker who has treated her like dirt and lied to her only to be told " Sorry, can't give out info."  She gets a pass.

What info could Meghan give the doctors about Vicki anyways except that she dry heaves and lies about health issues?

Brianna realized she couldn't go because she would need time to open the safe or go to the bank and read Vicki's will to see if any changes were made from the last time she read it.

Edited September 7, 2016 by Giselle

[zoeysmom]

4 minutes ago, ScoobieDoobs said:

I don't bother with the blogs, does anyone know if Meghan responded to Vile Vicks' crapola?  I think she should say -- Listen, hun, I ain't a nun & it's not on me to wait around in an ER for hours, but maybe I might have done that if you didn't treat me like crap & say shitty things about me & to me & you weren't a slimey cancer scammer.

Was Meghan cold about not going to see Vicks?  Absolutely NOT!  I still think this is something that should ONLY be expected of close family & maybe close (only very close) friends to do.  Vicks is an ass for saying Meghan was "mean" to not go to the ER.

True, Meghan barely could care that Vicks was even in an accident.  And who the heck can blame her?  Shrugging hard cuz Vicks set this up by being the horrible woman she is.  This isn't really at all about Meghan being cold or mean.  It goes back to Vicks & who she is.  Look, I guess horrible people like Vicks or Bethenny can depend on the kindness of the few saintly people left out there.  Yeah, good luck with that, Vicks (and Bethenny).

Meghan's blog:  http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-orange-county/season-11/blogs/meghan-king-edmonds/meghan-king-edmonds-i  She essentially said she did not realize the extent of the crash and would have "stopped by" to visit Vicki had she been admitted.  Seems pretty reasonable.

One thing about needing Meghan there to messenger-Briana was in contact with the nurse's station and they were relaying her information.   That would be the logical pipeline.  Vicki was also calling the ladies after the accident.

Meghan naturally has a flat affect.  She is perfect for Jim.  Principal Dubrow has a fairly natural instinct to respond when someone doesn't behave the way she wishes they would. 

There is something off about this sequence, Tamra claims they hit the dunes about noon and the phone call to Meghan takes place about 2 1/2 hours after the crash.  I must say if I were Meghan on the other end of the conversation and Heather started talking about Kelly drinking beer, I would not be taking the situation as life and death.

[zoeysmom]

Heather's blog:  http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-orange-county/season-11/blogs/heather-dubrow/heather-dubrow-vicki-couldnt  Forty five minutes for help to arrive.

[lunastartron]

12 hours ago, smores said:

Look, a friend of mine could call me and tell me that someone they know was passing through my town and was in a car accident and their husband/wife/parent/sister/whatever was on their way, but it would take 6 hours for them to get to the hospital.  And my answer would be, I'll be out the door in 10 minutes, text me the whatever's phone #.  Sometimes you do something that isn't comfortable because it's the right thing to do.  It's just the right thing.  Vicki was likely hyping up a whole bunch of symptoms, and she's been nasty as hell to everyone, but she's still a person, and she was flown in, from a crash, and that's just a scary, lonely situation.  You go.  Tomorrow you still aren't friends, but for right now, you show up, make sure things are ok, info is conducted to who it needs to go to, get magazines, etc.  I do not consider myself a super nice person, but there is no one in this world that I hate enough to leave alone and scared in a situation like that.

It's also totally not like just going to visit your coworker who had their appendix out.  This is more like stopping to help a stranger on the road who got in a car crash.  That's more the way I see it.  You'd stop, do everything you could to help.  In this case, the everything you could would be to take a quick trip to the hospital and make sure Vicki was ok.

As far as my knowledge of road accidents extend, the primary reason why passerby stop to assist is in order to provide first aid; contact health and legal authorities; and offer emotional as well as physical support during the entire process. All of these immediate necessities and gestures of elementary humanity had been completed and trained professionals had intervened well before Heather ever informed Meghan of the development.

5 hours ago, motorcitymom65 said:

But the thing is, Meghan didn't enunciate any of this. She acted like she was unconcerned about Vicki. Like it was no big thing. I think that is what surprised Heather; that she didn't seem to care at all. She could have said, let's give it some time and see what the situation is, and maybe we can head over later. She could have said, do you think we should go and be with her? She didn't say that she wouldn't be able to see her, wouldn't be able to help. All of those are real things, but in the moment, the moment she was getting the news, she didn't really seem to care. That is the thing. 

But these women fail to articulate themselves cogently in the midst of real time action on the regular - Heather sure as hell didn't during the course of season nine; even as a someone with an extensive professional background couched in language, Carole Radziwill often doesn't communicate her points clearly and/or concisely.

It's mystifying to me that Heather believes there is some sort of onus on Meghan to disingenuously hightail it to the hospital for a pointless excursion when Heather herself and Kelly weren't making expeditious treks to Palm Springs but rather remarking upon drinking beer.

 

14 hours ago, zulualpha said:

I was kind of meh on Megan until this epi now I actively dislike her.  Either you're the kind of person that cares enough to where in this particular emergency possibly tragic situation you would go slightly out of your way to go to the hospital and find out what was happening or you're the type of person like Megan and Jim that sneered "no way" and didn't give it a second thought.  I don't buy that they wouldn't have been allowed to see Vicki, they absolutely would have imo.  All Vicki had to say was yes I'll take visitors and boom they're in.  Then they say a couple of kind words on behalf of the cast and leave.  It's called not being a douche, having a smidgen of kindness, manners whatever.

As far as Brianna is concerned, I'm not judging her until I hear what really went down with her.  I'm guessing she called Vicki or Vicki called her first and told her what the deal was and that it was okay not to drop everything and drive to Palm Springs from OC.

 

Wait - what? It's a reflection that Meghan is bereft of kindness and manners because she didn't make an hours-long trip in order to show up to a medical facility where she may or may not have been permitted to see a woman who publicly lobbied for her firing and just said she herself desired only cordiality with Meghan and not "friend fuh friend friend friend" friendship BUT Brianna and Michael don't have an even greater moral obligation to collect their own mom from the hospital?

Edited September 7, 2016 by lunastartron

[lunastartron]

19 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

Meghan's blog:  http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-orange-county/season-11/blogs/meghan-king-edmonds/meghan-king-edmonds-i  She essentially said she did not realize the extent of the crash and would have "stopped by" to visit Vicki had she been admitted.  Seems pretty reasonable.

One thing about needing Meghan there to messenger-Briana was in contact with the nurse's station and they were relaying her information.   That would be the logical pipeline.  Vicki was also calling the ladies after the accident.

Meghan naturally has a flat affect.  She is perfect for Jim.  Principal Dubrow has a fairly natural instinct to respond when someone doesn't behave the way she wishes they would. 

There is something off about this sequence, Tamra claims they hit the dunes about noon and the phone call to Meghan takes place about 2 1/2 hours after the crash.  I must say if I were Meghan on the other end of the conversation and Heather started talking about Kelly drinking beer, I would not be taking the situation as life and death.

I also find it interesting that Meghan notes that . . . Vicki was texting her while she was in the hospital. So Vicki regained mobility in her extremities pretty quickly and if she actually WANTED Meghan present, why isn't there a message indicating as much?

[100PercentPain]

From Heather's blog:

 

Quote

 Principal Dubrow - go right ahead. I'd rather be the principal than a vulgar, truant, inappropriate child. 

 

Dang. 

[Giselle]

55 minutes ago, ScoobieDoobs said:

I don't bother with the blogs, does anyone know if Meghan responded to Vile Vicks' crapola?  I think she should say -- Listen, hun, I ain't a nun & it's not on me to wait around in an ER for hours, but maybe I might have done that if you didn't treat me like crap & say shitty things about me & to me & you weren't a slimey cancer scammer.

Was Meghan cold about not going to see Vicks?  Absolutely NOT!  I still think this is something that should ONLY be expected of close family & maybe close (only very close) friends to do.  Vicks is an ass for saying Meghan was "mean" to not go to the ER.

True, Meghan barely could care that Vicks was even in an accident.  And who the heck can blame her?  Shrugging hard cuz Vicks set this up by being the horrible woman she is.  This isn't really at all about Meghan being cold or mean.  It goes back to Vicks & who she is.  Look, I guess horrible people like Vicks or Bethenny can depend on the kindness of the few saintly people left out there.  Yeah, good luck with that, Vicks (and Bethenny).

I am selective when reading certain Bravo blogs,  photos, videos. I don't want to show interest and raise the numbers of the "click on tally" of any cast member I don't care for. I hate Kelly, I'm not interested in her at all so I don't want to have any "inferred interest" to be registered at Bravo by clicking on anything to do with her. I want her to be gone. 

[Bronzedog]

About 50% of Heather's blog is self promotion.  Where are you and Terry going to appear?  What products are you selling?  Oh, wait!  I see you've conveniently listed all that info in your blog!

[yourmomiseasy]

The autoplay video on the Bravo blogs is so annoying.  I just got busted on a conference call.

[KungFuBunny]

47 minutes ago, Giselle said:

Exactly. Vicki deserves to eat that entire pie all by her special self. My dad and years earlier my mom were always in and out of hospitals, doctors offices, skilled care facilities. Not only was a medical power of attorney on file I carried copies with me and made available the original if they needed to see it. My dad when able, would make sure to state verbally and sign if needed, that I could know everything and make decisions even with a MPOA on file. I usually stayed with him in the ER room but stayed out of the way if they were working with him.

Meghan's pregnancy was her first and after all she went through to get pregnant I can understand her not wanting to jeopardize it in any way. I'm not going to knock her for not going to Glamis to sit around a campfire 2 hours away from medical care nor sit in a hospital ER waiting room exposed to god knows what for hours on end while pregnant waiting for a coworker who has treated her like dirt and lied to her only to be told " Sorry, can't give out info."  She gets a pass.

What info could Meghan give the doctors about Vicki anyways except that she dry heaves and lies about health issues?

Brianna realized she couldn't go because she would need time to open the safe or go to the bank and read Vicki's will to see if any changes were made from the last time she read it.

I did the same thing! I took the originals and made copies of both the POA and HPA to the PCP, specialists and Hospital Admin office. None of them took the copies I made, they insisted on taking the originals to make copies themselves. I also sent off copies to their Health insurance companies so that I could speak on their behalf with questions about statements and bills. I also had individual medication lists and all of their specific doctors contact info.

Meghan gets a pass period. She is not Vicki’s Healthcare Proxy Agent nor is she immediate family.

If Heather was so concerned, she could have called her fabulous buddy and asked to borrow her private plane and had them fly her to Palm Springs.

Vicki’s special pie would have included extra deuces

Edited September 7, 2016 by KungFuBunny

[Miss February]

Vicki was very nasty to Meghan last season, including advocating for Jim to leave her.  I think it's unfair for the other women to ask her to pretend to be a friend to someone who mocked her and who said so many vile words to her last year.  And as mentioned above, how would Meghan's presence comfort Vicki?  Meghan in the hospital room would be awkward and uncomfortable for both women.  I appreciate Meghan's authenticity.  Vicki's children could easily go to Palm Springs to visit their mother in the hospital.  

Edited September 7, 2016 by Miss February

[yourmomiseasy]

6 minutes ago, KungFuBunny said:

If Heather was so concerned, she could have called her fabulous buddy and asked to borrow her private plane and had them fly her to Palm Springs.

Heather's friend with the helicopter from a few seasons ago is my ex-boss's wife.  They totally would have sent the helicopter if Heather called, Peter and Jaye love showing off their helicopter and offering to fly people around in it.

[slitz]

15 hours ago, WireWrap said:

They are co workers at best, Meghan/Vicki, and they get paid to go to each others events, like the PS trip. Meghan wasn't there out of the goodness of her heart, it was her job to attend. LOL

All very true.  Which is why I understand why Meghan didn't go and I'm not going to get upset that she didn't.  She's an adult perfectly capable of making her own decisions.  And frankly, Vicki has brought it on herself.  She was nasty to Meghan all last season and likely would have been even without Meghan donning her "Nancy Drew Detective Girl" hat.  

[walnutqueen]

35 minutes ago, Giselle said:

I am selective when reading certain Bravo blogs,  photos, videos. I don't want to show interest and raise the numbers of the "click on tally" of any cast member I don't care for. I hate Kelly, I'm not interested in her at all so I don't want to have any "inferred interest" to be registered at Bravo by clicking on anything to do with her. I want her to be gone. 

I am so selective that I don't even visit the Bravo site to read ANY blogs (actually, this is one of the few sites I frequent).  So watching their crap shows on delayed DVR is as close as I get to supporting them.  :-)

I experienced a frisson of schadenfreude watching Vicky's histrionics, because I knew she wasn't seriously injured.

Frankly, I was bored with the "Meghan: should or should not have gone to the hospital" discussion about 6 pages ago, so I will not participate any further.  ;-)

[RHJunkie]

1 hour ago, ElDosEquis said:

One of the things that made me crazy is pleather's insistence on being the 'messenger' (did someone miss a chance to kill this one?)

I am a HUGE stickler about personal health info - and this includes people being a pipeline for info.

While I WOULD want to know about someone I knew having an accident? I think that NOK should be first to be called, but only AFTER something definite IS known?

Pulling out your wireless and going thru your phone list just paints you as a big mouth.

Her 'It looks serious, but....."

She may have passed the test as a 'first responder', but being married to a doctor doesn't mean that she'd know better.

Any of these cows, had they been in vicki's shoes, WOULD want waiting room filled with cameras, paps and their co-working snobs to drop everything and 'be there' for them.............the are, after all, reality 'stars'.

All this attention wants to be focused on Meghan not agreeing to or feeling the desire to go to the hospital to see Vicki. I'm not sure if it was completely genuine on Heather's part to have called Meghan in the first place. It comes down to - do I call a loved one who'll take 3 hours to get there or do I call someone who doesn't like or respect her and is 45 minutes away? If my concern is Vicki, shouldn't I also be considerate of the company I'm looking to send her way to comfort her during a scary time?

But truthfully, when I consider how Heather delivered that message, she didn't really focus on Vicki being in a severe state. It was more like 'oh she's all by herself and we're too far way to make it there'. Someone should be there to keep her company right now *wink wink, nudge nudge*. I mean, the time it took to call every person in her phonebook, face time with her husband to go over the events, and then chat with a beer chugging Kelly - couldn't you have been much closer to the hospital than where you were sitting on your ass in Glamis while poor Vicki was at the hospital all by herself?

[Giselle]

45 minutes ago, KungFuBunny said:

I did the same thing! I took the originals and made copies of both the POA and HPA to the PCP, specialists and Hospital Admin office. None of them took the copies I made, they insisted on taking the originals to make copies themselves. I also sent off copies to their Health insurance companes so that I could speak on their behalf with questions about statements and bills. I also had individual medication lists and all of their specific doctors contact info.

Meghan gets a pass period. She is not Vicki’s Healthcare Proxy Agent nor is she immediate family.

If Heather was so concerned, she could have called her fabulous buddy and asked to borrow her private plane and had them fly her to Palm Springs.

Vicki’s special pie would have included extra deuces

YUP!   I had a notebooks both for my dad and mother that included copies of the HPOA, DPOA, HPA, also had the DNR and the POLST.  They had the legal documents, history, past and current medications list, contact info for doctors, family contact list, home health, labs, med transport services, SNF numbers and addresses, list of current medical equipment, current Dr. visit summaries and instructions, home health visit info (mom), PT info, lab work, weekly pictures of her back wound necrotizing fasciitis from a nursing home stay and past and current care instructions. For my dad it was pictorial history of his cancer and amputation wound complications. After the bad nursing home stay, we brought mama home and I took care of her for several years so I also listed her sugars, temps, BP, iv's given, special shots given, and anomalies. I also had a page at the front to write down questions to ask with space to write down their answers.

With both parents having multiple issues the notebooks came in handy when the paramedics had to come, or they had to see a new doctor, or go to a new place. I just gave them the book an they could copy what they needed and I didn't have to rattle off history and meds and forget to mention something in the heat of the moment. With my dad in and out of assisted living, hospitals, SNFs, medical board and care facilities for two years, they went with me everywhere in case I had to go to him from where I was, just threw the bag in the trunk.

.

Edited September 7, 2016 by Giselle

[100PercentPain]

48 minutes ago, yourmomiseasy said:

The autoplay video on the Bravo blogs is so annoying.  I just got busted on a conference call.

Is that what it is? While I was reading the blogs, my Apple Music stream kept pausing randomly. I guess I was hitting "play" again quickly enough that I didn't actually hear the videos but that would make sense. Annoying. I hate autoplay pretty much always. 

[RHJunkie]

13 hours ago, smores said:

Look, a friend of mine could call me and tell me that someone they know was passing through my town and was in a car accident and their husband/wife/parent/sister/whatever was on their way, but it would take 6 hours for them to get to the hospital.  And my answer would be, I'll be out the door in 10 minutes, text me the whatever's phone #.  Sometimes you do something that isn't comfortable because it's the right thing to do.  It's just the right thing.  Vicki was likely hyping up a whole bunch of symptoms, and she's been nasty as hell to everyone, but she's still a person, and she was flown in, from a crash, and that's just a scary, lonely situation.  You go.  Tomorrow you still aren't friends, but for right now, you show up, make sure things are ok, info is conducted to who it needs to go to, get magazines, etc.  I do not consider myself a super nice person, but there is no one in this world that I hate enough to leave alone and scared in a situation like that.

It's also totally not like just going to visit your coworker who had their appendix out.  This is more like stopping to help a stranger on the road who got in a car crash.  That's more the way I see it.  You'd stop, do everything you could to help.  In this case, the everything you could would be to take a quick trip to the hospital and make sure Vicki was ok.

It's nothing like a stranger on the road who you stop to help after they've had a car crash. The point of stopping to help in this case is to provide some assistance when there is no assistance available, particularly from a professional better suited to address the situation. If you see a car accident, do you stop and come out to help if you see that the paramedics, fire truck and police have already arrived on the scene and is tending to the patient? I'd be surprised if you or anyone else answered 'yes' to that. The only way this situation is more like assisting a stranger after a car crash is if you're driving in your car and you hear about an accident on the road and you decide to drive to the scene to see how you can help. Did you see what Vicki was like with Heather and Kelly around her trying to calm her down? Vicki didn't need a familiar face. She needed medical assistance and she was receiving that long before Meghan was given the update on things.

They called Briana - why not call her son? Why not send Ryan? Is the list so short that you would reach out to a non-friend and insinuate that they be the one to go sit in a waiting room for hours?

Edited September 7, 2016 by RHJunkie