The Other Duggars: The Lost Girls and Amy

[Joe Jitsu913]

Scandal!! I hope he isn't gibing away *gasp* pieces of his heart.

My co-worker has family that attends Crown College and Joseph was actually the one to invite the young lady over for dinner along with Nathaniel Bates.

[cereality]

My co-worker has family that attends Crown College and Joseph was actually the one to invite the young lady over for dinner along with Nathaniel Bates.

Damn -- that was quick. When did he start college -- January term or Sept? Even if it's Sept -- it only took 4 months of him out from under JB's thumb to decide he's a normal male who likes to talk to girls and there's nothing wrong with eating dinner with one on occasion to get to know her better. I guess he's brain washed enough to bring a chaperone, though I guess he knows that news travels fast esp if he's living with or hanging with the Bates and he wouldn't want one of the Bates boys to tell their parents "why do I need a chaperone, Joseph has been going out with a girl without a chaperone for months" as that'll result in a quick call to JB and that may put an end to the college thing and Joseph's newly acquired freedom. Though in a college setting, a chaperone doesn't look so bad esp if you don't call them your "chaperone," since so many college kids do the group dating/hanging out with the opposite sex thing rather than one on one formal dates.

 

Wonder what JB and Michelle think of this? I mean the males are allowed to find their own girls -- I mean Josh did. But the parents still expect to "counsel" and I'm sure Josh had to do a lot of groveling about "but I've prayed about it for months and God has laid it on my heart that I should court Anna." Here they let Joseph out of the house for a hot second, and he finds himself a girl that I'm sure JB knows nothing about!? I wonder if JB and Michelle are realizing that despite all the indoctrination, their sons are red blooded males just like anyone else or if they're regretting letting him go??

[Mrsjumbo]

It would be bigger news if one of the unmarried Duggar GIRLS got away to college. But it's a start.

[GEML]

I'm skeptical that any girl going to Crown College is unknown to at least the Bates children and this has been fully checked out by JB. As we said, these are really small worlds.

[BitterApple]

The one in TN. Joseph actually has a crush on a girl there. He's enjoying socializing.

Holy crap! You mean he's a normal red-blooded 20-something male? I thought those didn't exist in Duggarland.....

[cereality]

Crown College claims to have somewhere between 900-1300 students. Even if 1/3 of them are girls, I'm having a hard time believing that JB and Gil Bates know 300-400 fundie girls enrolled there, such that they definitely know who Joseph is crushing on and her entire family history and Joseph and JB have had a chance to "pray about it" before taking her out to dinner and potentially giving away a piece of a heart. Chances are that a good number of people enrolled there are not fundie but conservative Christians like Whitney who are unknowns to the Gothard folks. So I still think Joseph showed up on campus and like any red blooded male, started chatting it up with some girl he found cute without giving too much thought to whether JB approves or not; good for him.

[Barb23]

My co-worker has family that attends Crown College and Joseph was actually the one to invite the young lady over for dinner along with Nathaniel Bates.

Did they dine on Tater Tot Casserole?

[GEML]

Believe me - I grew up on a campus that size. It's a total fishbowl. (That's not always a bad thing!) But notice that even here, someone has a friend of a friend and THEY know about it.

[Darknight]

It is interesting to me that the Duggar family has now tried many things that the Bates family did first. The Bates were the first to have their kids be first responders, so the Duggars followed. Then the Bates enrolled some of their kids in Crown college, so now the Duggars have decided it's okay for them as well. I wonder if the Duggars are

ever going to admit that they allow "dating with a purpose" rather than courting and if their kids will be allowed to "follow their own rules in their own house" once they marry and leave. One other cue they the Duggars could take from the Bates is that some of their kids do indeed have outside jobs (Michaela is a nanny, Lawson works at landscaping) and it won't kill them to have a boss who does not hold the exact same beliefs as them. I'm sure Erin's husband Chad has a boss at the metal factory who very well might not be a practicing Gothardite.

Never noticed this. There could be also other reasons. Joe was sent to Alert a few times. Then after Jessa and Jill's marriage and babies they need new story lines.

Clown college sounds like a cult college. Like PCC and PHC. There could be a few extremely conservative Christians

Edited January 23, 2015 by Darknight

[Hpmec]

I just familiarized myself with Clown College's draconian dating rules. Chaperones required, no physical contact, interracial dating restricted. The school seems more interested in keeping students' hands off each other and the races separate than it does teaching them anything meaningful. If Joseph meets anyone there, he'll be subject to the same archaic nonsense as at home. Same jail. Different warden.

[3girlsforus]

It would be bigger news if one of the unmarried Duggar GIRLS got away to college. But it's a start.

This.... While I'm glad Joseph is getting to go somewhere, it really just highlights even more that the boys have a chance and the girls are property. When a girl gets to go to college, own her own apartment, get a job... anything like that... I'll start relaxing my disgust.

[zenme]

Wow! No interracial dating? While I don't personally care for the Crown College dating rules, I understand the strict rules, as they are in line with their ideas about pre-marital sex, yadda yadda...I do not understand the interracial thing AT ALL. Why is that not okay?

Edited January 23, 2015 by zenme

[Hpmec]

Interracial dating must be approved in writing by both sets of parents. Racist much? Also, the school defines "dating" as something as innocuous as sitting next to a member of the opposite sex at a meal or at church. That is one effed up place.

Edited January 23, 2015 by Hpmec

[BitterApple]

Wow, they have explicit rules about interracial dating? I just don't even know what to say to that, my mind is truly blown right now...

 

I'm shocked that they even have any minority students at that school. It doesn't exactly sound like a welcoming place.

[GEML]

And we wonder why they are having issues with accreditation.....

[Wellfleet]

Believe me - I grew up on a campus that size. It's a total fishbowl. (That's not always a bad thing!) But notice that even here, someone has a friend of a friend and THEY know about it.

 

I attended a Catholic college the same size [900-1200] in the 70s, which had just become co-ed so it was still almost exclusively girls.  And GEML is right. That size was not a bad thing in any way.  I knew every single person in my graduating class, albeit many just casually.  My high school class was over 100 people larger than my college class.

Wow! No interracial dating? While I don't personally care for the Crown College dating rules, I understand the strict rules, as they are in line with their ideas about pre-marital sex, yadda yadda...I do not understand the interracial thing AT ALL. Why is that not okay?

 

Because the Duggars are afraid of everything and everyone they don't know - or have had previous experience with. And since their world is so small, that's a lot.

And we wonder why they are having issues with accreditation.....

 

Knowing their "policy" on interracial dating, it's very unlikely they'll ever achieve regional accreditation.

Edited January 23, 2015 by Wellfleet

[Hpmec]

I'm sure JimBoob has no interest in whether or not the school is accredited or Joseph learns anything of value there. Joseph's presence at college, any college, lets Boob try to convince critics that his children are free to pursue their own interests,when nothing could be further from the truth.

Edited January 23, 2015 by Hpmec

[BitterApple]

I'm sure JimBoob has no interest in whether or not the school is accredited or Joseph learns anything of value there. Joseph's presence at college, any college, lets Boob try to convince critics that his children are free to pursue their own interests,when nothing could be further from the truth.

I agree. I find it completely random that Joseph, of all people, is suddenly attending college. For one thing, he's never seemed like the brightest bulb in the chandelier and for another, when in the show's history has he ever expressed a desire for higher education (and I'm using that term loosely here). I wonder if they sent Joseph as sort of an F.U. to Josiah. It seems like Boob and Michelle have never gotten over him freaking out over the #J20 announcement. Now Joseph is experiencing the college life Josiah always wanted; rather interesting....

[Hpmec]

I wonder if Josiah has ever thought about approaching a member of the crew about escaping. I would certainly tune into a show based on his adventures as a newly emancipated Duggar in NYC or LA. Watching Josiah enjoying himself at a performance of Kinky Boots would be tv gold. Sadly, such a move would get him shunned by JBoob, Mullet, and company and, thus, is extremely unlikely. I can't help but think that of all the older Duggar kids, he is, and is destined to remain, the most miserable.

[Hpmec]

TLC isn't going to be happy that a Duggar is attending a school that officially enforces a racist policy. Between that and all of the rightwing political activity lately, it's going to be harder and harder to portray them merely as a harmless large and loving Christian family.

[cereality]

I'm not in the education field and don't know these religious schools, but I'm not understanding this -- how can a school have rules about dating? Who cares if a school defines dating as sitting next to each other at a meal or as lying in bed together, aren't they there to grant a degree and that's about it? I mean I've heard of some schools that have mens and womens dorms and opposite sex friends can't be in the dorms past a certain hour, doors must be open etc. But this goes much past that. Is Crown able to have such rules simply because it's unaccredited -- i.e. no state/national guidelines? And what happens if students break these rules? What if Joseph decides to sit next to a black girl at lunch at a private restaurant? Is this the kind of place where passerbys will report him to the school and then what -- he'll be kicked out? I'm just trying to wrap my brain around it -- went to an east coast ivy and even if it had such rules, I couldn't imagine any student caring enough about who someone sat next to at lunch and running to the dean to report it.

 

I do wonder if this is an FU to Josiah or if things go well for Joseph, Josiah will get to follow. Josiah, Jed, and Jeremiah seem to be the more "academic" ones in that family, which I always lumped Joseph in with JD -- happy in a country town doing projects/manual labor. Josiah has expressed some interest in studying accounting. Apparently Crown offers business courses taught from a "Christian perspective." Not quite sure what that means as a net present value calculation is done the same way whether you're Christian or Buddhist, but it could at least give him some exposure to a field he finds interesting.

[mimionthebeach]

I wonder if Josiah has ever thought about approaching a member of the crew about escaping. I would certainly tune into a show based on his adventures as a newly emancipated Duggar in NYC or LA. Watching Josiah enjoying himself at a performance of Kinky Boots would be tv gold. Sadly, such a move would get him shunned by JBoob, Mullet, and company and, thus, is extremely unlikely. I can't help but think that of all the older Duggar kids, he is, and is destined to remain, the most miserable.

I wonder if the crew has to sign a non-interference clause. It's one thing to play games with the kids. Quite another to aid an escape or even show the kids things they're not supposed to see, like... spongebob squarepants or Kim Kardashian.

Edited January 23, 2015 by mimionthebeach

[DangerousMinds]

I'm with you, Cereality - how on earth could a college enforce these dating rules? Are the students forbidden from leaving campus? Because certainly students could get away with dating off campus.

[Joe Jitsu913]

I'm with you, Cereality - how on earth could a college enforce these dating rules? Are the students forbidden from leaving campus? Because certainly students could get away with dating off campus.

Students find ways to break the rules there. My co-worker said that he and his girlfriend (now wife -who also attended Crown College) would go off campus and have dates or whenever there was a holiday, he would visit his girlfriend and they'd do "normal couple" things, like date, kiss etc.

I asked him about the racial segregation there and he would simply say that the college is very strict. He wouldn't confirm or deny. He seemed kind of embarrassed about that.

[jilliannatalia]

I'm not in the education field and don't know these religious schools, but I'm not understanding this -- how can a school have rules about dating? Who cares if a school defines dating as sitting next to each other at a meal or as lying in bed together, aren't they there to grant a degree and that's about it? I mean I've heard of some schools that have mens and womens dorms and opposite sex friends can't be in the dorms past a certain hour, doors must be open etc. But this goes much past that. Is Crown able to have such rules simply because it's unaccredited -- i.e. no state/national guidelines? And what happens if students break these rules? What if Joseph decides to sit next to a black girl at lunch at a private restaurant? Is this the kind of place where passerbys will report him to the school and then what -- he'll be kicked out? I'm just trying to wrap my brain around it -- went to an east coast ivy and even if it had such rules, I couldn't imagine any student caring enough about who someone sat next to at lunch and running to the dean to report it.

 

I do wonder if this is an FU to Josiah or if things go well for Joseph, Josiah will get to follow. Josiah, Jed, and Jeremiah seem to be the more "academic" ones in that family, which I always lumped Joseph in with JD -- happy in a country town doing projects/manual labor. Josiah has expressed some interest in studying accounting. Apparently Crown offers business courses taught from a "Christian perspective." Not quite sure what that means as a net present value calculation is done the same way whether you're Christian or Buddhist, but it could at least give him some exposure to a field he finds interesting.

Those fundie colleges control every aspect of students' lives. They make my alma mater -- BYU, of all places -- seem liberal by comparison.

[Hpmec]

Fundie colleges are just an extension of fundie homes -- rigid, controlling, demonstrating extreme lack of trust in young adults to exercise any judgment at all. Only the most hardcore kool-aid drinkers need apply.

Edited January 24, 2015 by Hpmec

[GEML]

Crown College receives federal aid, so they could not expel a student for interracial dating, no matter what the parents say. But schools are given wide latitude over almost anything else.

[3girlsforus]

I just read the three pages of rules about dating in the Crown College of the Bible Student Handbook. I think I need to throw up or take a shower. So what would happen to my kids if they went there? My kids are 1/2 white and 1/2 Asian. Do they need permission to date anyone who isn't 1/2 white and 1/2 Asian? After all wouldn't anyone else be a "different" race than them? Or do they get the automatic "ok" for both white and Asian? The whole thing makes me want to puke. 

 

And on a less vile but still ridiculous note, who sits around and thinks about rules like 'Couples are not to be together without prior administrative approval on Saturdays before lunch or on Sunday afternoons'. WTF???  

 

Maybe every second Tuesday on the full moon and an even number day you can smile at a boy without permission.

 

Oh - and there are no dating privileges for soul-winning or church ministries. What does that even mean????

Yikes - they have rules about sleeping too... they must get up by 7:30 and lights out by 11:30. On Sundays they can sleep until 8am. I need to stop reading this stupidity. But it is making is more clear why they agreed to let Joseph go. It's not any different than being at home. 

[glow]

I remember reading about a college that fined students massively for not have perfect attendance for church ... but attempting to ban or discourage interracial dating tops it. 

[Hpmec]

Shouldn't going away to college be the time young adults start spreading their wings and learning to live independently? I'm all for sensible dorm rules in the interest of safety, but legislating every aspect of a student's life is just ridiculous and says, "We don't trust you. Big Brother knows best." It's frightening.

[Wellfleet]

I'm sure JimBoob has no interest in whether or not the school is accredited or Joseph learns anything of value there. Joseph's presence at college, any college, lets Boob try to convince critics that his children are free to pursue their own interests,when nothing could be further from the truth.

 

Boob probably has no idea of what accreditation means, much less knowing that Crown College doesn't have it.

[Mrsjumbo]

"It's not any different than being at home".

It is actually stricter than the Duggars because I don't think they have set waking times, especially that early.

I can see why it is Duggar- approved. I think my 8 yr old has more freedom & independence at school.

[cereality]

I just read the three pages of rules about dating in the Crown College of the Bible Student Handbook. I think I need to throw up or take a shower. So what would happen to my kids if they went there? My kids are 1/2 white and 1/2 Asian. Do they need permission to date anyone who isn't 1/2 white and 1/2 Asian? After all wouldn't anyone else be a "different" race than them? Or do they get the automatic "ok" for both white and Asian? The whole thing makes me want to puke. 

 

And on a less vile but still ridiculous note, who sits around and thinks about rules like 'Couples are not to be together without prior administrative approval on Saturdays before lunch or on Sunday afternoons'. WTF???  

 

Maybe every second Tuesday on the full moon and an even number day you can smile at a boy without permission.

 

Oh - and there are no dating privileges for soul-winning or church ministries. What does that even mean????

Yikes - they have rules about sleeping too... they must get up by 7:30 and lights out by 11:30. On Sundays they can sleep until 8am. I need to stop reading this stupidity. But it is making is more clear why they agreed to let Joseph go. It's not any different than being at home. 

I'm really curious to know what a couple can do Saturday before lunch or Sunday afternoon that is so much more scandalous than say Saturday after lunch!? Are they thinking sex is more likely to happen on Saturday morning than Saturday night!?

 

How is Joseph adjusting to this? They have never lived on a schedule in their whole lives -- they stay up until midnight, roll out of bed whenever, wander through the kitchen and eat whenever. And now he has to be up by 7:30 and probably at breakfast by 8 or 8:30. I bet if/when the schedule thing ever comes up - JB will be saying HARDY HAR HAR, we don't do that -- we're on Duggar time.

[BitterApple]

"It's not any different than being at home".

It is actually stricter than the Duggars because I don't think they have set waking times, especially that early.

I can see why it is Duggar- approved. I think my 8 yr old has more freedom & independence at school.

Your 8 year-old is probably more mature and reads at a higher level than all of the Duggar kids as well:)

[Barb23]

My son would have been expelled the first week for not following the "lights out" at 11:30 & up at 7:30. He's definitely a night owl & often studied & worked on projects thru the night. Do the RA's have to do bed or room check 2 times day to enforce? I agree with the rest, how did Joe adjust from Duggar time & their lack of schedules to this?

3girlsforus- I do wonder how they handle dating of mixed races. No disrespect intended, but would your children even be admitted? Do all the students carry a card with their nationality & race(s) on it that has to be shown before asking someone out? Are girls allowed to ask guys out? Most, if not all, colleges thrive on the diversity of their students. Some recruit students from different countries. I'll have to take a look at their handbook when my blood pressure & stomach settle down.

[Hpmec]

Boob is a notorious cheapskate. He may have worked out a deal to get Joseph a reduced rate on tuition, room and board in exchange for publicity for the college on the show. However, I think it's more likely that he twisted the Bates' arms and parked Joseph at their place for free. After all, what's one more mouth to feed?

[NikSac]

I am finding the school policies pretty disgusting - and thanks for those who could stomach reading them enough to post the highlights (lowlights?).  The schedule one actually made me laugh out loud, though. That's got to be hell on him having to stick to a SCHEDULE.

[allonsyalice]

I mean, some of those rules make sense for a boarding high school (like the curfew one) but this is a college, supposedly? All these rules are ridiculous. I'm trying to thing of something even slightly positive to say, but I can't. 

[trimthatfat]

Crown sounds like a ridiculous school. No interracial dating? That quite offends me and since it wants to be such a racist institution in 2015, I hope they never receive accreditation.

[floridamom]

Laughable! What a joke. This place should not be allowed to include the word "college" in it's name. It offers a very limited choice of "study" (also a word that should be deleted from it's description). I see no advantage to wasting one's time and money there at all. Being unaccredited in the first place offers the "student" no benefits from attending.  Didn't Joe attend ALERT? Didn't they have a scheduled day with meals, and "military-like" training that was organized timewise? So, Joe had some experience in having to be somewhere at a specific time. I'm all for "some type" of control over the students' behavior, like male and female dorms, simple things like that. I understand this is a religious school, so moral standards would be different from a public university, but these folks take the cake! It's like anything else the Duggars do,..they play around with inventing their own qualifications and certifications. This is nothing more than "play college" IMO. Poor Josiah, I would think they would let him attend a local public community day college for some business and accounting classes and he can get his associates in something real. Poor kid. Yes, why hasn't Joe expressed any interest in continuing school before this? I think it is because his parents told him that's what he wants to do. Just like everything else.

[Barb23]

Florida mom- I think your last two lines are great & they do sum up Boob's & MEchelle's philosophy about their children.

Hpmec - I can definitely see Boob trying to make a deal with Crown college. "Yuk-yuk, I have 19 children, that's right 19 children, who have graduated or will graduate from our School of the Dining Room Table & could further their learnin' at your college. Do you offer Pay for one class, get one free? Or how many kids can I squeeze in one of your dorm rooms?"

[floridamom]

Thanks, Barb23. I find it "out of no where" that Joe's attending this facility or any other one as NO word was mentioned about him. Josiah, yeah, would be totally believable.

[TobyBelle]

Floridamom, I was thinking the same thing. I thought perhaps I haven't watched enough episodes to know that Joseph liked teaching and discipling younger men. This announcement came way out from left field. I would rather hear it straight from the horse's mouth what his dreams and desires are rather than take his dad's word for it.

I saw in the fine print of the school they can't transfer any of their class credits to any other institutions or transfer any credits into their school. Dead End. I wonder if the kids even understand the drawback of going to an unaccredited school.

[GEML]

Again, because Crown College receives federal funds, they couldn't turn down any student based on race. There are ways around that, and I'm guessing that few students that aren't white, fundamentalists apply (even accredited, church affiliated colleges with fewer rules are having a hard time attracting students, let alone minority students). But turning down a student based on race or expelling students for interracial dating would get them in trouble very quickly. Bob Jones University caved on this very issue a few years ago.

Three colleges, off of the top of my head, don't accept federal funding: Patrick Henry, Hillsdale and Grove City. In the latter's case (the only one I know about personally) I can say honestly it was not about race, but about Title 9 sports and equal funding. I will say I have had many friends attend GCC (including the daughter-in-law of a former Democratic Congressman) and one of my closest friends is a professor there - he's a huge Democrat and an African American.

So these colleges aren't as closed off as they seem on paper, even Crown College is probably a more liberal environment than anything Joseph has been exposed to before. It's just the nature of how higher education works. Even the most conservative can't help but push the boundaries a little.

[floridamom]

So, Joseph can't speak for himself? Jim Bob makes his statements for him? What's up with that, some "adult", happy birthday, Joey.

I for one would have liked to hear from the guy myself as to what prompted this decision. The silence as to what he will do with this "education is curious".

[TobyBelle]

How many episodes will be in the new season? I'm curious now to see if they will cover Joseph's admission into college.

[3girlsforus]

3girlsforus- I do wonder how they handle dating of mixed races. No disrespect intended, but would your children even be admitted? Do all the students carry a card with their nationality & race(s) on it that has to be shown before asking someone out? Are girls allowed to ask guys out? Most, if not all, colleges thrive on the diversity of their students. Some recruit students from different countries. I'll have to take a look at their handbook when my blood pressure & stomach settle down.

 

No disrespect taken at all.  I have to wonder if there are even any minority kids there in the first place. Why would anyone minority even apply with such a horrible rule? Well I'd wonder why anyone, white or non-white, would apply somewhere with such a horrible rule but you get what I mean. 

 

Also to echo what GEML said above... yes they would accept them because of funding but I still don't see how any minority would want to be in a place like that. Oh - and Grove City is a very nice non-racist school.

 

I agree that usually the rules are harsher in print than in practice. That is true at my daughter's college. But these rules are so over the top strict that just the fact that they would have them so rigid and specific (not after lunch on Sundays etc) means it's way over the top. Plus, even if they don't enforce it at all, if they put in writing rules about interracial dating then they are pigs.

Edited January 25, 2015 by 3girlsforus

[ChocolateAddict]

Not related to the College thing but I watched a rerun of one of the episodes and I was reminded of the lack of stimulation in the kids lives.  For crying out loud, all they appear to do is wonder around the house, climb on benches and do interviews.  I can only really remember one time when I saw them playing with a toy and that was a bouncy ball that they each got 5 mins with.  Would it kill Michelle to set up some structured activities??? I'm not a mum but off the top of my head I could suggest drawing, hide-and-seek, throw and catch and being read to.  And 3 out of those 4 would only require Michelle to sit there and supervise! I have seen nothing to suggest that the kids are doing activities that help with their gross or fine motor skills or even basic counting games. And more than that, I would happily bet money that those kids aren't getting their hour of physical activity each day (running/screaming around the house doesn't count!). No wonder they act feral, they are left to their own devices since their mum doesn't care, Jana is probably worn out and Jessa and Jill are busy being courted/engaged/married.  

[Hpmec]

I think they will gloss over Joseph's attendance at Clown College because the powers that be at TLC are not going to want to draw attention to a Duggar's attendance at a school that has a racist dating policy. No way does Boob want to be put on the spot about that. You simply can't put lipstick on a pig, and TLC knows it.

[GEML]

I wouldn't be surprised if interracial students were international students. Many schools attract them either because they come from families wealthy enough to pay full price (desperately needed) or because they are missionary students with a relationship with the school.