Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!

[Sew Sumi]

@GeeGolly Are licensed midwives considered "medical professionals?" We know Teresa Fedosky, who likely handled her 40 hours of labor, isn't. 

@MamaMax Derick posted (then deleted, at least on IG, I think it's still on the blog) that Jill labored for 40 hours, then wound up at the hospital with a c-section. Sammy was hooked up to O2 cannula, pulse ox, and something for the lungs that I can't recall that was noted to be a machine that he might have to take home a portable version of.  These were all seen from the very first picture Derelict posted from the NICU not long after Sammy's birth. We didn't see a pic of Jill for days, and it was still at the hospital, and Sammy still had some hardware attached to him. This was part of a few pics that they posted to their blog, and while they tried to hid the wires, they were observed in a couple of shots. We do not know how long either Jill or Sammy were actually hospitalized. We haven't seen a pic of Jill in two weeks and just one of Sammy posted yesterday where he looked okay, but they DID cut off his feet, so he still could be hooked up to something that we don't know of. Hopefully not. 

Cathy took care of Izzy for about 10 days. 

At this point, I know I'm more worried about Jill's well-being than the baby, who seems to be doing okay. She bounced back very slowly from Izzy's birth, I remember a pic taken at their church in which Derick held Izzy in his carrier (too soon for Jill to carry him), but she looked just AWFUL. And this was maybe a month after Izzy was born. I know there is no timetable about recovering from c-sections, but whatever was going on with her at that time seemed to go beyond physical pain. I worry that it's even worse this time, given her well-known expectations for a VBAC. 

[JoanArc]

51 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

I know there is no timetable about recovering from c-sections, but whatever was going on with her at that time seemed to go beyond physical pain.

Joshgate had broken at that time. That'd do it to anyone.

[ariel]

3 hours ago, duggarfan said:

 

Also, I agree with you that most of the doomsday posts didn't receive a lot of likes, but it's just the notion that some folks seem to want the worst possible outcome that saddens me.

If those post sadden you, put those posters on ignore.  Problem solved.

[Sew Sumi]

1 hour ago, JoanArc said:

Joshgate had broken at that time. That'd do it to anyone.

Joshgate broke in middle May, so Izzy was about 6 weeks old. Her pics from the church were before that broke. But yeah, Joshgate probably really broke her, and she barely saw "normal" before she was knocked up again. She did seem to at least put up a front of happy for a little while. Of course, being pregnant exemplified this, but my concern is that there is just that one picture for all of their fans, and now, that's it. 

[JoanArc]

Quote

Joshgate broke in middle May, so Izzy was about 6 weeks old. Her pics from the church were before that broke.

Didn't they have advance warning the report was going to be released? Remember that insane original episode of 19 Kids where they all looked on the edge of a breakdown?

[SnarkyShark]

13 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

We know that they were taught these two completely contradictory things because they've repeatedly asserted the second. And the first is obvious from the way we've seen them raised and the things we know they "learned" in their "schooling" and cult training.

That's a positively crazy-making upbringing because it makes you into a weak and scared person while simultaneously  telling you that you'll be the strongest person out there. When you get messages that mixed -- and that strongly enforced -- you're a complete psychological and mental mess entering young adulthood, and you almost certainly don't realize that you are, which makes it even worse and harder to get past.

In some ways, the contradiction between the messages the Duggar kids were brought up on are impressive. It reminds me of the concept of "doublethink" from the novel 1984, which means simultaneously accepting two contradictory ideas as truth (for those who may not be familiar with the book). 

 I would guess that this kind of messaging also creates deep insecurity—because you will be great but you can give in to temptation and sin at any time. So you end up with paper-thin instead of solid self-confidence due to the fact that every word of encouragement is matched with one of disbelief.

[AnnieBeez]

3 hours ago, ariel said:

If those post sadden you, put those posters on ignore.  Problem solved.

Does ignore not work on Chrome? 

Things do seem to get mentioned here and then taken for fact. Off on the galloping tangent people go. 

Lots of assumptions are being made. Dislike colors perceptions. I'll wait and see what actually happens. 

[GeeGolly]

Jill had a c-section in the hospital @Sew Sumi. And she will likely need a post-op examination. Those are the medical professionals I was referring to. And I'm not speculating that she has PPD, I was just responding that there are times when even Fundy folks, like everyone else, don't always have the option to refuse mental health services.

[doodlebug]

2 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Jill had a c-section in the hospital @Sew Sumi. And she will likely need a post-op examination. Those are the medical professionals I was referring to. And I'm not speculating that she has PPD, I was just responding that there are times when even Fundy folks, like everyone else, don't always have the option to refuse mental health services.

Jill would need to schedule the exams and show up for them.  Many homebirthers won't bother.  They aren't interested in traditional medical care and don't want to hear about it.   Then, the doc's office would need to provide screening for PPD and Jill would have to answer the questions honestly and be willing to accept any help that is offered to her. Unless she is flagrantly a danger to herself and others (and is either too sick or unwilling to hide it), no one can force her into treatment.

If she told the doctor that she is surrounded by family who are helping her with her kids and otherwise providing support and she is receiving counseling through her church, that would be the end of it, most likely.

Once again, as a patient, she has autonomy.

Edited July 28, 2017 by doodlebug

[Marigold]

Just checking:

No People magazine articles for Samuel.

Did Jessa get an article with Henry? 

[doodlebug]

19 minutes ago, Marigold said:

Just checking:

No People magazine articles for Samuel.

Did Jessa get an article with Henry? 

She got a cover and a feature story with many photos.

[Absolom]

9 hours ago, JoanArc said:

Didn't they have advance warning the report was going to be released? Remember that insane original episode of 19 Kids where they all looked on the edge of a breakdown?

According to the police chief, the Duggars were told when the FOIA request came in so 10 days to two weeks before the info was released to In Touch.

[Lunera]

[laurakaye]

1 hour ago, Lunera said:

I know this is Jill's verified account, but do we really think this is Jill doing the posting?  The comment sounds like something straight out of a young kid's Bible study lesson.  And while Jill does seem pretty simplistic, I have a hard time thinking that she posted this cryptic message on IG while at home taking care of a newborn and a toddler.

[Absolom]

It's ESV not KJV also.  Did she ask one of her sisters to post for her?

[floridamom]

What the heck do those posts mean and what does Jill have to do with them at this time in her life? Just odd..I don't get it.

BTW, I know it's from the Book of Genesis, the first line in the bible.

[Mrs. P.]

It's actually the opening line of the Gospel of John.

[floridamom]

Thanks, I thought 'In the beginning' was from Genesis. I appreciate the correction.

[GeeGolly]

8 hours ago, doodlebug said:

Jill would need to schedule the exams and show up for them.  Many homebirthers won't bother.  They aren't interested in traditional medical care and don't want to hear about it.   Then, the doc's office would need to provide screening for PPD and Jill would have to answer the questions honestly and be willing to accept any help that is offered to her. Unless she is flagrantly a danger to herself and others (and is either too sick or unwilling to hide it), no one can force her into treatment.

If she told the doctor that she is surrounded by family who are helping her with her kids and otherwise providing support and she is receiving counseling through her church, that would be the end of it, most likely.

Once again, as a patient, she has autonomy.

Oh my this has taken on a life of its own. My first response was to a mention of PPD with psychotic features. My second response was to a follow-up question from @Sew Sumi. I've been a licensed clinician for decades and actually spent 4 years working in the largest crisis agency in my area. I've evaluated clients as young as 3 up to 83. Folks with PPD, depression, anxiety, bipolar, schizoaffective, schizophrenia, etc. I've evaluated them in their homes, at our agency, in the ED and other floors of the hospital, in the community, etc. I'm fully aware of how this all works. Fortunately and unfortunately clients' autonomy is not a given.

[xwordfanatik]

14 hours ago, SnarkyShark said:

In some ways, the contradiction between the messages the Duggar kids were brought up on are impressive. It reminds me of the concept of "doublethink" from the novel 1984, which means simultaneously accepting two contradictory ideas as truth (for those who may not be familiar with the book). 

 I would guess that this kind of messaging also creates deep insecurity—because you will be great but you can give in to temptation and sin at any time. So you end up with paper-thin instead of solid self-confidence due to the fact that every word of encouragement is matched with one of disbelief.

Great post!  1984 was & is one of my favorite books of all time.  I first read it as a high school senior for English class MANY moons ago.  IF these 19 kidults and kids had ever been allowed to read it (or any other non-Gothard fundy-approved book,) how different would their lives have been?

Doublethink describes it very well IMO.

[Whyyouneedaname]

almost 3 weeks and only 1 pic has been posted to social media with anyone holding him and that was the one with Jill. The one that looks like she had been/was crying. They never go that long without posting, showing him off with family. I just don't get it, they brag about everything else but with Sam just pics of him laying down. No pics with grandma, grandpa, cousins, aunts, uncles, what gives.

Edited July 28, 2017 by Whyyouneedaname

[Temperance]

In the Catholic church, Jill's current verse quoted above is read every Christmas morning (not the midnight mass). (It's the third reading of that service.) I recognized it as the first chapter of John. I've heard it frequently quoted. someone I knew used to quote in Latin or Greek (whatever the original language was).  

[RazzleberryPie]

57 minutes ago, floridamom said:

Thanks, I thought 'In the beginning' was from Genesis. I appreciate the correction.

"In the beginning" is also in Genesis.

Looks like Jill's just doing a random Bible study, and she chose John. Lots of (legit) missionaries and evangelists, or pastors mentoring new converts, start with John. 

[queenanne]

50 minutes ago, floridamom said:

Thanks, I thought 'In the beginning' was from Genesis. I appreciate the correction.

Yes, sometimes similarly phrased verses loop back around in different books.  The verse in John is actually John (? presumably) describing the events of Genesis, so you are half right.  (I think this may in fact be one of those instances which Christians like to quote to indicate that the Bible was divinely inspired, because the places in which the original books were found geographically, were set so far apart from each other that it was pretty sure the scribe of #1 could not have been the scribe of #2; thus the idea is that God must have done the speaking "through" the scribes).  

[starlightlost]

It must have some meaning for her but I can't figure out what that is..

[ariel]

5 minutes ago, starlightlost said:

It must have some meaning for her but I can't figure out what that is..

 I don't think Jilly has a clue what it means.

[sometimesy]

Well everybody knows that the bird is the word

bird bird bird

bird is the word. 

[JoanArc]

39 minutes ago, starlightlost said:

It must have some meaning for her but I can't figure out what that is..

Covfeve 3:16

[jilliannatalia]

23 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

If Jill was having symptoms of severe PPD and especially with psychotic features there's a strong possibility she would not be able to refuse services. Safety of self and others trump the Fundy card.

She would have to act in a way that endangered herself or others before any treatment would be fored on her.

[Missy Vixen]

On 7/27/2017 at 2:03 PM, BitterApple said:

I remember a scene during the original series where Michelle and Boob were leaving to go out of town. They were making a huge production of it, and none of the children even glanced up from what they were doing to say good-bye. I agree it's no different for the kids whether their parents are around or not. They get same amount of non-attention either way. 

I also remember the scene in the airport in which one of the kids fell down or hurt themselves or some other damn thing. They didn't run for J-Chelle. They ran for Janarella.

She and her sisters are those kids' moms. KJB wants to play the paterfamilias but I am dying to know the number of minutes per day he actually spends with any of his kids. I'll bet it's less than half an hour, unless he's lecturing -- oops, doing "Bible study" with them.

I'm guessing Jilly Muffin will be following her lead and farming out Izzy and Sam at every available opportunity.

Edited July 28, 2017 by Missy Vixen

[Genevrier]

I thought .Grease. was the word (was the word, that you heard). 

[tabloidlover]

5 hours ago, Lunera said:

w

What?!?!   Seriously, what does Jill want me to glean from this?

57 minutes ago, JoanArc said:

Covfeve 3:16

ROFLMAO

Edited July 28, 2017 by tabloidlover

[ariel]

1 hour ago, Missy Vixen said:

I also remember the scene in the airport in which one of the kids fell down or hurt themselves or some other damn thing. They didn't run for J-Chelle. They ran for Janarella.

 

I think it was one of the little boys got separated from Boob & Michelle at a busy airport ( this was before they had their private planes). They didn't noticed that he was missing.  I think it was one of the slave girls that noticed it.  When he was found he ran to one of the slave girls, not his parents.

Edited July 28, 2017 by ariel

[floridamom]

What?

I remember George Orwell's "1984'...I read it in 11th grade in 1974-5. Required reading. Doublethink/doublelogic describes this family very well.

[Westiepeach]

2 hours ago, JoanArc said:

Covfeve 3:16

I love you.

[IntoTheMystic]

The continued silence is very unsettling. This is so not normal for the Duggars. At all. I don't particularly like these folks and I enjoy snarking and reading snark with the best of them . . . but I don't wish harm on any of them. I hope nothing's actually wrong and they're waiting for a magazine cover to release or something. The silence is deafening at this point and Duggars just don't do silence. At all.

[Minivanessa]

9 hours ago, Whyyouneedaname said:

almost 3 weeks and only 1 pic has been posted to social media with anyone holding him and that was the one with Jill. The one that looks like she had been/was crying. They never go that long without posting, showing him off with family. I just don't get it, they brag about everything else but with Sam just pics of him laying down. No pics with grandma, grandpa, cousins, aunts, uncles, what gives.

I know. Strange. 

And then, the Bible posts on IG on Jill's account - but with nothing about Sam:

9 hours ago, floridamom said:

What the heck do those posts mean and what does Jill have to do with them at this time in her life? Just odd..I don't get it.

Indeed. The Duggar brand is pretty much all about birthing babies for Jesus and the greater glory of Jim Bob the Patriarch of them all. So the latest blessing to arrive would ordinarily be getting a lot more social and regular media attention than Samuel has.

This does win the internet today and makes as much sense as anything else I've read:

7 hours ago, JoanArc said:

Covfeve 3:16

I got curious about, and researched, the timing of prior People cover stories following Jill's and Jessa's deliveries. Most recently, Henry was born on February 6, 2017, in what was apparently a fairly quick and uncomplicated labor/delivery. On February 15, just 9 days later, a teaser for the exclusive People cover story was up on People.com. The date on the cover was February 27, but as we know, those dates never seem to sync up with real life. I also scrolled back through the Seewald topic here, and there were some photos of Henry just after birth, including one with him being held by Ben's sister. I didn't look at any of the Seewald or Duggar SM accounts or blogs to see if there were additional photos posted there prior to the People exclusive being released.

Iz was born April 6, 2015. Only 9 days later, on April 15, the teaser for the People exclusive cover story was posted online. The date on that cover was April 27, but the story was clearly all done and dusted by April 15. So, after what the Dillards admitted was a difficult labor followed by an emergency C section, they were magazine cover-story ready, photos and all, less than nine days later. 

Samuel was born on July 8, which was 20 days ago. Not a peep from People about an exclusive labor/delivery story this time. 

I think any of these could be true:

• People just isn't paying for a cover story for this birth story. And the Dillards/Duggars are pouting and holding out on posting pics and info, hoping People will realize there's a market for a story after all.
• Samuel's birth will yet be a big People exclusive story, but isn't quite ready for release just yet. Maybe something happened that they've kept under wraps and are releasing in return for the People paycheck. Or it's just as they've kind of said so far: long labor, another C-section, nothing really wrong with baby or mom.
• Something's wrong with Jill or Samuel, the Dillards are struggling to come to terms with it, and they aren't ready or willing to go public about it.

I really have no clue, I just know that this birth is different from Jill and Jessa's first three deliveries, in terms of publicity. I didn't research Anna's deliveries, but IIRC they got plenty of People ink until Joshgate ruined things.

Edited July 29, 2017 by Jeeves

[Temperance]

15 minutes ago, Jeeves said:

I think any of these could be true:

• People just isn't paying for a cover story for this birth story. And the Dillards/Duggars are pouting and holding out on posting pics and info, hoping People will realize there's a market for a story after all.
• Samuel's birth will yet be a big People exclusive story, but isn't quite ready for release just yet. Maybe something happened that they've kept under wraps and are releasing in return for the People paycheck. Or it's just as they've kind of said so far: long labor, another C-section, nothing really wrong with baby or mom.
• Something's wrong with Jill or Samuel, the Dillards are struggling to come to terms with it, and they aren't ready or willing to go public about it.

• People is waiting for a slow news week when there is nothing more interesting or trendier to cover. (Example: Everyone is talking about Princess Diana this week and she has the cover of People.) The Dillards are ready, but People  isn't. Especially if it means giving them the cover or even a segment of the cover.
• Somebody at People has the Duggar beat and watches the show and just realised that JB and Michelle want to have 95 if not 100 if not 200 grandbabies. And they start thinking "And Dear God! Did we really agree to cover each and every one of them?  And make them the cover of the magazine? Even if it's only 50 grandkids that's still a lot! We got stop covering it every time somebody gives birth." 

Jinjer might get a cover if they make it to a year and no baby. Also I could see the 10th, 20th, etc.  grandchild being a bigger deal.

Edited July 29, 2017 by Temperance

[sometimesy]

If they didn't have a magazine lined up wouldn't they be promoting their blessing more on social media? Duggs were more active on social media when there was no promise of a tv show. @Temperance could be right;  since they are quiet on social media, maybe they are just waiting for the right timing or slow media day, to collect their cheque.

[Minivanessa]

7 minutes ago, sometimesy said:

If they didn't have a magazine lined up wouldn't they be promoting their blessing more on social media? Duggs were more active on social media when there was no promise of a tv show. @Temperance could be right;  since they are quiet on social media, maybe they are just waiting for the right timing or slow media day, to collect their cheque.

Yes, per my first two scenarios above: either they are holding off on social media posts and hoping to build enough interest for a magazine payout, or they are keeping quiet because there *is* a story in the works that isn't coming out as soon after the birth as with Duggar births in the past. 

[Lisa418722]

I think they are either (a) waiting on the People cover story or (b) next season of Counting On.  At this point, I think they are playing this up for all it's worth. They know their fans (and even snarkers) are concerned. They don't need to give a second by second replay of what happened, but rather than giving even a brief synopsis, they are waiting for $$$$.  I honestly hope both Sammy and Jill are OK.  My thought (and mine only) is that Jill (if she didn't have a hysterectomy), was told it would be too dangerous to have more children and she has now gone into a major depression.  

[Caracoa1]

Would Jilly Muffin lose her status as Boob's favor child if she were unable to breed an army for him?

[sometimesy]

43 minutes ago, Caracoa1 said:

Would Jilly Muffin lose her status as Boob's favor child if she were unable to breed an army for him?

Nope. Jill's power source is in her tears. 

[leighdear]

51 minutes ago, Caracoa1 said:

Would Jilly Muffin lose her status as Boob's favor child if she were unable to breed an army for him?

I think Jessa has already taken Jill's place, so unless Jill can keep birthing and manages twins next time before Jessa, Joy, Kendra or Jinger does, her shot at top breeder is over.  

[Minivanessa]

57 minutes ago, Caracoa1 said:

Would Jilly Muffin lose her status as Boob's favor child if she were unable to breed an army for him?

 

3 minutes ago, leighdear said:

I think Jessa has already taken Jill's place, so unless Jill can keep birthing and manages twins next time before Jessa, Joy, Kendra or Jinger does, her shot at top breeder is over.  

I agree. I posted about this over at the Seewalds topic. Jessa's winning the baby race, and that's all that really counts with the Duggars and their fans.

[PikaScrewChu]

The Dugs are of no interest to People magazine any more. Joy and Austin didn't even get a mention on the cover of People when they got married.

I think they're holding out for the next season of Counting On.

[floridamom]

Anyone still believe that this is a ministry and NOT a family business for them? It's ALL BUSINESS ALL THE TIME for the Duggars. They're becoming very obvious and it doesn't flatter them IMO.

[doodlebug]

26 minutes ago, PikaScrewChu said:

The Dugs are of no interest to People magazine any more. Joy and Austin didn't even get a mention on the cover of People when they got married.

I think they're holding out for the next season of Counting On.

It's kind of interesting, though, if that is the case.  It was only about 5 months ago that Jessica's second delivery got a cover and a feature story.  The only way it makes sense is if People sold the fewest issues ever that week and/or got so much negative feedback that they decided the Duggars aren't worth covering except in passing.

[JoanArc]

29 minutes ago, PikaScrewChu said:

The Dugs are of no interest to People magazine any more. Joy and Austin didn't even get a mention on the cover of People when they got married.

I think they're holding out for the next season of Counting On.

That's interesting about Joy. Really, no cover? Maybe there're in negotiations with US or another rag...

[doodlebug]

3 minutes ago, JoanArc said:

That's interesting about Joy. Really, no cover? Maybe there're in negotiations with US or another rag...

It's been months now, if any magazine was going to do a feature on the wedding, which was televised months ago, it would've happened by now.  These events have a shelf life, after all.  Both People and US have recently done cover stories on other weddings of DWTS cast members that took place long after Joy's wedding.  The Duggars have no leverage to negotiate for a cover at this point, now that far more well known and attractive reality stars have had far more elaborate weddings that got covered.