Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!

[Churchhoney]

9 hours ago, OpieTaylor said:

A bunch of comments on this photo were about how huge Izzy looks, which is true. Is the photo distorted though? - cuz his cranium looks ginormous!

Yeah, virtually all the pictures we see of them are distorted. Whatever's nearest the lens swells to monstrous size. In this case it's his cranium. Often it's his hands or feet. He's big, but not as nuttily big as the impression we get in some of these photos.

[springtime]

Parents that speak in Bible quotes- just what every two year old needs! I use Google to clarify Bible quotes- Poor Izzy is on his own to figure them out!

My foodie friend makes a breakfast spaghetti pie- I was eating ziti (less mess) with white clam sauce at a restaurant and he ordered a side of red sauce for me? I thought it strange but my left overs were the makings for brunch- (He was probably cringing at my ziti substitution- but worked with it!) lol

Edited September 17, 2016 by springtime

[Minivanessa]

1 hour ago, Evagirl said:

Derrick is a little bit like JimBob - it's all about him and what he wants.  He spends 3-4 hours preparing one sermon while his wife is suffering from homesickness and postpartum depression.  He needs to send her home for a couple of months.  He's so wrapped up in what he feels is God's calling on his life to the detriment of everyone else around him.  Plus he looks like he stinks. 

They actually believe another baby would help Jill.  Oh sure, they "say" another child is because they don't want Izzy to be an only - but I believe Jill has expressed her feelings to him privately and he convinced her that another baby would take care of the problem.

See, my problem is that he can't adequately (financially) take care of the family he has.  When they lived in Arkansas Jill was happy.  Her husband went to work everyday, she lived in a mcmansion (okay daddy provided it, but still...), her sisters were close by, she had dinner ready when he got home etc.  Basically, that's all she (and all the girls) ever wanted out of life.  But Derrick nipped that in the bud with this "mission" trip.  I thought his mom was battling serious cancer.  She was when they got married.  I'd want to be at least in driving distance of my mom who was so sick when I got married that she had to attend the wedding in a wheelchair, and he only has one sibling who adores him.  There are hundreds of ways he could serve God and make a meaningful impact right here in USA.  Maybe he feels he has to "suffer" in order for ministry to be meaningful.  Let me tell ya Derrick, your wife is definitely suffering.  You seem to be feeling pretty cool, with your wild beard, man bun and BO.  You didn't look like that when Jill fell in love with you, what on earth makes you think she would love the way you look now.  

Plus he looks like he stinks.  

This is from the topic discussing the "Meet the Parents" episode but I'm talking about Jill and Derick so I moved my response here.

"He needs to send her home . . . " Do you realize that they have returned to Arkansas and intend to remain there for several months? The footage in CA was shot before they came home.

"When they lived in Arkansas Jill was happy." Well, there was that little thing called Joshgate, and the Fox News interview, when her parents shoved her in front of the cameras so that she and Jessa could save the family's TLC gravy train by minimizing the shit out of being molested by their teenaged brother when they were tiny little girls. Jill was a crying miserable mess. 

Sure, Jill was within her comfort zone in Arkansas. She played house with Derick and hung out with her family. And got to continue being a Stage 5 clinger who we saw having to adjust to not being in the company of at least a dozen people 24/7/365.

I respectfully disagree that Derick "nipped Jill's happiness in the bud" by launching their careers as missionaries - which is exactly what Jill repeatedly had said she wanted to do. This was also after Jill had received that midwife certification (which IMO is of doubtful legitmacy, but it was actually a course of study she completed outside the SOTDRT).

I doubt that Derick made that move with a callous attitude toward his mother; IIRC by the time Derick and Jill went to CA, his mother's health had greatly improved. Derick's mother came to visit them in CA at least once - a trip that a seriously ill person couldn't have made.

My view is that Derick probably didn't plan for them to launch the missionary work as soon as they did, but that he believed that he needed to get his wife away from the toxic Duggar circus that erupted when Joshgate broke. I think that soon after the wedding he realized that Jill is woefully uneducated and as the Faux News interview indicated, emotionally fragile. I think he's been trying to encourage her to become more educated, which we've seen in her recent social media posts where she's been at the laptop doing Bible studies, etc. IMO Derick, rather than let his wife continue to swirl in the sick Duggar vortex which would probably suck him down too, decided to get his wife away from Joshgate's repercussions, and start their missionary work - sooner than he had intended.

Yes, it turned out that in real life Jill didn't like being in CA. But what's the basis for saying: "it's all about him and what he wants.  He spends 3-4 hours preparing one sermon while his wife is suffering from homesickness and postpartum depression"? From all their social media postings and what we saw on TLC, it appeared that they were together pretty much 24/7 in Central America. Was he supposed to literally sit there holding her hand every waking moment? He was being paid by SOS Ministries to do a job down there, although he downplayed that on social media, in favor of promoting Dillard Ministries.

Also, I seriously doubt that Jill's postpartum depression would have been effectively handled if they had stayed in Arkansas. The fundies tend to "pray away" things like depression, and if she dared express any negative thoughts about her motherhood or life (heresy! babies are sacred! giving birth is a blessing!)? Unless Derick is less fundie than he seems, nobody in Arkansas was going to get Jill to a doctor for counseling or evaluation/medication. 

I think we'll have to agree to disagree about Derick. I don't think he's a wife-neglecting egomaniac. To the contrary, I think he's a sincerely religious young man (though personally I don't share or endorse his theology), with a strong desire to practice his religion in foreign countries, who got some unpleasant surprises after he married Jill. And who has acted in good faith to deal with them. 

I have no idea if Derick follows the Jim Bob approach to headship, which is to swagger around waving his dick (metaphorically in public and literally in the master bedroom) at everybody and proclaiming that he's large and in charge. Derick's young and I think he's been sincerely trying to take his wife's best interests into account. 

I also thought he looked stinky in CA. So did Jill, and even Izzy sometimes looked dirty in the pictures they posted. They all look cleaner and non-stinky now that they are back in Arkansas.

Maybe Jim Bob will win, and Derick and Jill will never again leave Jim Bob's Arkansas dominion. And Jill will retreat into her Duggar bubble, never again challenge herself by stepping a foot out of her comfort zone, and have more babies, and they will all live on the never-ending TLC paychecks for years to come. 

BTW, I'd probably dislike Derick if I met him in person. I just don't think he's a monster who's making "poor Jill" unhappy. Poor Jill is in charge of her own happiness and he may have tried somehow to encourage her to take charge of it. I don't know if he's strong enough to continue to encourage her to learn new things and push her boundaries. There's so much pushback and now that Jill's back with the other Duggars she has a lot of reinforcement to not rock the boat.

Edited September 17, 2016 by Jeeves

[Churchhoney]

14 minutes ago, Jeeves said:

This is from the topic discussing the "Meet the Parents" episode but I'm talking about Jill and Derick so I moved my response here.

"He needs to send her home . . . " Do you realize that they have returned to Arkansas and intend to remain there for several months? The footage in CA was shot before they came home.

"When they lived in Arkansas Jill was happy." Well, there was that little thing called Joshgate, and the Fox News interview, when her parents shoved her in front of the cameras so that she and Jessa could save the family's TLC gravy train by minimizing the shit out of being molested by their teenaged brother when they were tiny little girls. Jill was a crying miserable mess. 

Sure, Jill was within her comfort zone in Arkansas. She played house with Derick and hung out with her family. And got to continue being a Stage 5 clinger who we saw having to adjust to not being in the company of at least a dozen people 24/7/365.

I respectfully disagree that Derick "nipped Jill's happiness in the bud" by launching their careers as missionaries - which is exactly what Jill repeatedly had said she wanted to do. This was also after Jill had received that midwife certification (which IMO is of doubtful legitmacy, but it was actually a course of study she completed outside the SOTDRT).

I doubt that Derick made that move with a callous attitude toward his mother; IIRC by the time Derick and Jill went to CA, his mother's health had greatly improved. Derick's mother came to visit them in CA at least once - a trip that a seriously ill person couldn't have made.

My view is that Derick probably didn't plan for them to launch the missionary work as soon as they did, but that he believed that he needed to get his wife away from the toxic Duggar circus that erupted when Joshgate broke. I think that soon after the wedding he realized that Jill is woefully uneducated and as the Faux News interview indicated, emotionally fragile. I think he's been trying to encourage her to become more educated, which we've seen in her recent social media posts where she's been at the laptop doing Bible studies, etc. IMO Derick, rather than let his wife continue to swirl in the sick Duggar vortex which would probably suck him down too, decided to get his wife away from Joshgate's repercussions, and start their missionary work - sooner than he had intended.

Yes, it turned out that in real life Jill didn't like being in CA. But what's the basis for saying: "it's all about him and what he wants.  He spends 3-4 hours preparing one sermon while his wife is suffering from homesickness and postpartum depression"? From all their social media postings and what we saw on TLC, it appeared that they were together pretty much 24/7 in Central America. Was he supposed to literally sit there holding her hand every waking moment? He was being paid by SOS Ministries to do a job down there, although he downplayed that on social media, in favor of promoting Dillard Ministries.

Also, I seriously doubt that Jill's postpartum depression would have been effectively handled if they had stayed in Arkansas. The fundies tend to "pray away" things like depression, and if she dared express any negative thoughts about her motherhood or life (heresy! babies are sacred! giving birth is a blessing!)? Unless Derick is less fundie than he seems, nobody in Arkansas was going to get Jill to a doctor for counseling or evaluation/medication. 

I think we'll have to agree to disagree about Derick. I don't think he's a wife-neglecting egomaniac. To the contrary, I think he's a sincerely religious young man (though personally I don't share or endorse his theology), with a strong desire to practice his religion in foreign countries, who got some unpleasant surprises after he married Jill. And who has acted in good faith to deal with them. 

I have no idea if Derick follows the Jim Bob approach to headship, which is to swagger around waving his dick (metaphorically in public and literally in the master bedroom) at everybody and proclaiming that he's large and in charge. Derick's young and I think he's been sincerely trying to take his wife's best interests into account. 

I also thought he looked stinky in CA. So did Jill, and even Izzy sometimes looked dirty in the pictures they posted. They all look cleaner and non-stinky now that they are back in Arkansas.

Maybe Jim Bob will win, and Derick and Jill will never again leave Jim Bob's Arkansas dominion. And Jill will retreat into her Duggar bubble, never again challenge herself by stepping a foot out of her comfort zone, and have more babies, and they will all live on the never-ending TLC paychecks for years to come. 

BTW, I'd probably dislike Derick if I met him in person. I just don't think he's a monster who's making "poor Jill" unhappy. Poor Jill is in charge of her own happiness and he may have tried somehow to encourage her to take charge of it. I don't know if he's strong enough to continue to encourage her to learn new things and push her boundaries. There's so much pushback and now that Jill's back with the other Duggars she has a lot of reinforcement to not rock the boat.

Big big second to every word of this.

[MarysWetBar]

13 minutes ago, Jeeves said:

This is from the topic discussing the "Meet the Parents" episode but I'm talking about Jill and Derick so I moved my response here.

"He needs to send her home . . . " Do you realize that they have returned to Arkansas and intend to remain there for several months? The footage in CA was shot before they came home.

"When they lived in Arkansas Jill was happy." Well, there was that little thing called Joshgate, and the Fox News interview, when her parents shoved her in front of the cameras so that she and Jessa could save the family's TLC gravy train by minimizing the shit out of being molested by their teenaged brother when they were tiny little girls. Jill was a crying miserable mess. 

Sure, Jill was within her comfort zone in Arkansas. She played house with Derick and hung out with her family. And got to continue being a Stage 5 clinger who we saw having to adjust to not being in the company of at least a dozen people 24/7/365.

I respectfully disagree that Derick "nipped Jill's happiness in the bud" by launching their careers as missionaries - which is exactly what Jill repeatedly had said she wanted to do. This was also after Jill had received that midwife certification (which IMO is of doubtful legitmacy, but it was actually a course of study she completed outside the SOTDRT).

I doubt that Derick made that move with a callous attitude toward his mother; IIRC by the time Derick and Jill went to CA, his mother's health had greatly improved. Derick's mother came to visit them in CA at least once - a trip that a seriously ill person couldn't have made.

My view is that Derick probably didn't plan for them to launch the missionary work as soon as they did, but that he believed that he needed to get his wife away from the toxic Duggar circus that erupted when Joshgate broke. I think that soon after the wedding he realized that Jill is woefully uneducated and as the Faux News interview indicated, emotionally fragile. I think he's been trying to encourage her to become more educated, which we've seen in her recent social media posts where she's been at the laptop doing Bible studies, etc. IMO Derick, rather than let his wife continue to swirl in the sick Duggar vortex which would probably suck him down too, decided to get his wife away from Joshgate's repercussions, and start their missionary work - sooner than he had intended.

Yes, it turned out that in real life Jill didn't like being in CA. But what's the basis for saying: "it's all about him and what he wants.  He spends 3-4 hours preparing one sermon while his wife is suffering from homesickness and postpartum depression"? From all their social media postings and what we saw on TLC, it appeared that they were together pretty much 24/7 in Central America. Was he supposed to literally sit there holding her hand every waking moment? He was being paid by SOS Ministries to do a job down there, although he downplayed that on social media, in favor of promoting Dillard Ministries.

Also, I seriously doubt that Jill's postpartum depression would have been effectively handled if they had stayed in Arkansas. The fundies tend to "pray away" things like depression, and if she dared express any negative thoughts about her motherhood or life (heresy! babies are sacred! giving birth is a blessing!)? Unless Derick is less fundie than he seems, nobody in Arkansas was going to get Jill to a doctor for counseling or evaluation/medication. 

I think we'll have to agree to disagree about Derick. I don't think he's a wife-neglecting egomaniac. To the contrary, I think he's a sincerely religious young man (though personally I don't share or endorse his theology), with a strong desire to practice his religion in foreign countries, who got some unpleasant surprises after he married Jill. And who has acted in good faith to deal with them. 

I have no idea if Derick follows the Jim Bob approach to headship, which is to swagger around waving his dick (metaphorically in public and literally in the master bedroom) at everybody and proclaiming that he's large and in charge. Derick's young and I think he's been sincerely trying to take his wife's best interests into account. 

I also thought he looked stinky in CA. So did Jill, and even Izzy sometimes looked dirty in the pictures they posted. They all look cleaner and non-stinky now that they are back in Arkansas.

Maybe Jim Bob will win, and Derick and Jill will never again leave Jim Bob's Arkansas dominion. And Jill will retreat into her Duggar bubble, never again challenge herself by stepping a foot out of her comfort zone, and have more babies, and they will all live on the never-ending TLC paychecks for years to come. 

BTW, I'd probably dislike Derick if I met him in person. I just don't think he's a monster who's making "poor Jill" unhappy. Poor Jill is in charge of her own happiness and he may have tried somehow to encourage her to take charge of it. I don't know if he's strong enough to continue to encourage her to learn new things and push her boundaries. There's so much pushback and now that Jill's back with the other Duggars she has a lot of reinforcement to not rock the boat.

Totally agree! I don't get that evil vibe from him at all. Or Ben, actually. Ben's sermons about hellfire and brimstone remind me of a 13 year old boy raving about the genius of Kurt Cobaine..lol

Jill needs counseling. She is a simple girl with zero capabilities to work through the trauma that occurred when she was a child. .and also the brainwashing from her parents. Some people are stronger than others. .she is not. 

Derrik is no control freak. 

I could likely spend three minutes with him and he would be piddling down his leg. 

[sometimesy]

Still not able to quote for some reason, but Jeeves is spot on. It's doing Jill and any children a disservice to cave in to her attachment to her parents and siblings. Jill doesn't seem like she likes caring for Izzy. If there are other people around, Izzy is held by them. Jill seems like the one most likely to make J-slaves of the lost girls, eat food prepared an purchased by the parents (although the broccoli shot is a good sign she is making meals for her own family). I think she wanted the Michelle type of role and honour on the compound and is not satisfied with life as an actual parent.  I don't think she really has a missionary heart, or servants heart at all. I think she thought missioncationing was actual mission life. That is not Derelicts fault. I think Jill is the one not considering Derelict. Jill is the one who misled Derelict and it's because of Jill that they can't get the real mission jobs. Jill has a nuclear family, and I would be exhausted just with the amount of visits her parents and siblings have made to Danger America. Too much, they need to stay away, they aren't letting Jill and Derelict bond. As soon as they start to get into a routine the Duggs are on thier way down again. Derelict isn't the problem.

[Minivanessa]

14 minutes ago, sometimesy said:

Still not able to quote for some reason, but Jeeves is spot on. It's doing Jill and any children a disservice to cave in to her attachment to her parents and siblings. Jill doesn't seem like she likes caring for Izzy. If there are other people around, Izzy is held by them. Jill seems like the one most likely to make J-slaves of the lost girls, eat food prepared an purchased by the parents (although the broccoli shot is a good sign she is making meals for her own family). I think she wanted the Michelle type of role and honour on the compound and is not satisfied with life as an actual parent.  I don't think she really has a missionary heart, or servants heart at all. I think she thought missioncationing was actual mission life. That is not Derelicts fault. I think Jill is the one not considering Derelict. Jill is the one who misled Derelict and it's because of Jill that they can't get the real mission jobs. Jill has a nuclear family, and I would be exhausted just with the amount of visits her parents and siblings have made to Danger America. Too much, they need to stay away, they aren't letting Jill and Derelict bond. As soon as they start to get into a routine the Duggs are on thier way down again. Derelict isn't the problem.

Nailed it, @sometimesy! 

We learn a lot from the homes and families we are raised in. You put your finger on what Jill saw modeled as being a mother: Michelle. Michelle the Queen Bee with a flock of daughters to do all the housework and child care.

Not surprising that Jill internalized that household model, and also not surprising that the reality of motherhood being an up close and personal 24/7 responsibility, came as a shock. 

[JoanArc]

Quote

Too much, they need to stay away, they aren't letting Jill and Derelict bond. As soon as they start to get into a routine the Duggs are on thier way down again. Derelict isn't the problem.

Even if they broke off contact entirely, it'd take years, and years (decades) for Jill to improve.

[Arwen Evenstar]

1 hour ago, Churchhoney said:

Big big second to every word of this.

This was a great post. I was engaged in every single word of it.

Agree that Derick really loves Silly Jilly. He's a beta male that wouldn't say boo to a goose, so I doubt he's got some evil agenda to hurt her. I also agree with the missioncation as being a way to get Jill the hell away after seeing her fall apart on TV. Who in their right mind leaves a cushy Fortune 500 job without a "plan"?  Someone who feels the need to run away right this minute  because they are under duress.  Once they were there, they had to find a way to "wing it".

What I found almost as disturbing was how Jessa just stared right thru Jill. Jessa seems incapable of empathy, unless it suits her, as in it being a tool to get her what she wants.  For all we know, she, too, may have broken down just as badly after the cameras stopped rolling. Public Jessa vs Private Jessa may be worlds apart, but in at least holding it together for the cameras, she has shown herself to be the stronger of the two.

 I can't even begin to imagine just how humiliated Jill and Jessa must have been.  No doubt, that explains a lot about why Jilly Muffin may have been reluctant to make friends with the SOS expats.  Feeling like she was being  labeled as 'The Girl Who Was Molested By Her Brother" everywhere she may go would have likely driven all but the strongest among us into self imposed isolation. I would have been embarrassed to leave the house for far less than that.

For all of JB and ME's exhaustive machinations to purportedly insulate and protect their precious blessings from the outside world, and then to sell them out in minutes flat showed me just how fake their brand of Christianity really is. 

[flyingdi]

I think part of Derick`s problem is that Jill won't tell him what she wants.  She thinks she has to agree with him 100% on everything.  Therefore her answer will always be "Whatever you want, honey".  Derick was probably not prepared for that answer to everything and stopped asking after awhile.

Edited September 17, 2016 by flyingdi

[sometimesy]

53 minutes ago, flyingdi said:

I think part of Derick`s problem is that Jill won't tell him what she wants.  She thinks she has to agree with him 100% on everything.  Therefore her answer will always be "Whatever you want, honey".  Derick was probably not prepared for that answer to everything and stopped asking after awhile.

Yeah, it's hard to blame him for doing things his way when Jill won't contribute. It sounds generous or 'meek', but from my personal experience, these people who 'let' the other person in the relationship make all decisions, do so in order to 'let' the other person take the 'blame' or responsibility if the decision is wrong. Yet, she is clearly indicating she is miserable and controls the decision in a passive way, she just won't verbalize what she wants. 

[Tabbygirl521]

1 minute ago, sometimesy said:

Yeah, it's hard to blame him for doing things his way when Jill won't contribute. It sounds generous or 'meek', but from my personal experience, these people who 'let' the other person in the relationship make all decisions, do so in order to 'let' the other person take the 'blame' or responsibility if the decision is wrong. Yet, she is clearly indicating she is miserable and controls the decision in a passive way, she just won't verbalize what she wants. 

That's how they were trained to be, though. Hubby is in charge. Keep sweet and don't complain. They likely didn't get much practice in expressing themselves except within certain restrictive parameters 

[cereality]

So in that IG pic (with the broccoli) why are they watching Dave Ramsey? Money problems for the Dillards? Must be weird for the Dillards to have to do some financial planning rather than - God will provide and the TLC show will be on forever.

[Defrauder]

When the molestation reveal interview with Jessa and Jill, the one where they were trying to say that it was no big deal, I saw Jill as shedding some tears not because of what happened but because the public found out about it - and that's what she was upset about not the actual incident.  I'm sure she had to be upset about the actual incident yet she seemed angry that it had come out.  Jessa was mad about it coming out also.   Michelle and JB threw them under the bus by having them come forward to try and explain - 'that it was nothing really' and everyone had moved on - until it became public.   I feel sorry for Jessa and Jill that the molestation happened to them in the first place but Jill being angry that it came out - that's on JB and Michelle and of course Josh.   Jessa was portraying how she felt, it was 'nothing really' while Jill was upset that the media put her in that position.

[BitterApple]

I think the girls were brainwashed long ago into believing the molestation was a) their fault, b) a test from God (per Gothard) and c) just a good ole case of boys will be boys, so no biggie. I don't know if Jill even understands that what happened to her was an abominable crime and her parents should've gone to jail for failing to protect her and her sisters. I mean ffs, Jessa wrote all of it off with a wave of her hand and a compliment of Josh's sneakiness. If Jill dares to get angry, hurt or depressed over it, then she's not a good Christian. It's a brilliant control strategy used by these cults to keep victims in line. Her only option is to blame the courts, the media, the tabloids, or anyone else not named Boob, Michelle or Josh.

Edited September 18, 2016 by BitterApple

[Arwen Evenstar]

51 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

I think the girls were brainwashed long ago into believing the molestation was a) their fault, b) a test from God (per Gothard) and c) just a good ole case of boys will be boys, so no biggie. I don't know if Jill even understands that what happened to her was an abominable crime and her parents should've gone to jail for failing to protect her and her sisters. I mean ffs, Jessa wrote all of it off with a wave of  her and a compliment of Josh's sneakiness. If Jill dares to get angry, hurt or depressed over it, then she's not a good Christian. It's a brilliant control strategy used by these cults to keep victims in line. Her only option is to blame the courts, the media, the tabloids, or anyone else not named Boob, Michelle or Josh.

That's what makes incest so insidious...it's the shame that no one dares to discuss, and is too horrible to even be imagined, so for people who where victims, often the on,y way for them to cope is to try to block it out.

The whole world finding out about it had to have brought great shame upon the model family, as well as the wound being once again ripped open for the four sisters as well as at least one other young lady. Had such a thing happened in my family, I'd sure be upset about the whole world hearing about it. Isn't it enough just dealing with it when a few people (doctors, lawyers, pastors, law enforcement, other family members and courts) finding out and talking about it in great detail.

[Missy Vixen]

On 9/16/2016 at 1:35 PM, Aja said:

My ex husband enthusiastically backed up my logic. "Yes, yes, that's true! I'll never love anybody as much as I love you! We're a little bit different!" Guess how the next twenty years went.

1

OMG. 

Aja, I am so sorry.

[lascuba]

So I'm the only one who thinks those were big fat crocodile tears during that interview? Jill practically jammed her finger in her eyes for a while before any tears came out, and she certainly wasn't sobbing. She was upset, yes, but not devastated over anything other than the evil media conspiring to ruin her family. Remember the sex abuse special TLC did...Jill looked bored out of her mind and borderline pissed to be there, because in her mind she didn't need to be. The only thing she said there was how she liked this one point that the instructor made--one that was very similar to what her parents said. Both she and Jessa have said multiple times that they had long forgiven Josh for the molestation, while stating that they were angry at him over Ashley Madison, while looking righteously furious and using harsh (for them) language. At this point, I believe them. I'm not extrapolating this to all or most victims of sexual abuse similar to what Josh did to Jill and Jessa, but there's a reason why they are the only victims to speak about it, and it's not because they're married, it's because they were the only victims (out of the sisters) who were never awake when the abuse took place and had to be told that it happened. I think that's significant. 

As for Derrick, if he did take Jill to Danger America to escape--which I doubt because I think that trip was planned long before the scandals broke--I think it was to escape TLC and the media attention a bit. I think Jill really was devastated over the family's fall from grace, and reading what was being said about them on top of how she had gone for beloved good girl to so many people hating her on social media (the tide turned abruptly once she got engaged) must have taken a huge toll. 

[GeeGolly]

I think Jill & Derick eagerly decided together to go to CA, and I believe being missionaries was a large part of their dating discussions. I think both of them have been surprised at what it is actually like. I'm guessing Jill pictured herself strolling down the streets with Izzy, handing out gifts and blessing everyone into Christianity. I don't think Derick understood the full responsibility of his marriage and baby. He probably imagined Jill delivering babies with Izzy strapped to her back while he trekked through the woods while preaching the word of God. Derick's dream was a little closer to reality.

Derick spending 4 hours on a 1 hour sermon is 5 hours - 35 hours less than the average work week.

I took Jill's recent statement of - I hope our plans for the next year are similar - as she knows Derick settled into the missionary work easier than she did, so she hopes they agree on a different angle next time.

[Churchhoney]

16 hours ago, sometimesy said:

Yeah, it's hard to blame him for doing things his way when Jill won't contribute. It sounds generous or 'meek', but from my personal experience, these people who 'let' the other person in the relationship make all decisions, do so in order to 'let' the other person take the 'blame' or responsibility if the decision is wrong. Yet, she is clearly indicating she is miserable and controls the decision in a passive way, she just won't verbalize what she wants. 

I think some people do this. But I think Jill and the other Duggar females do it because they've been trained hard from birth, on a daily basis, that this is what women must do always and everywhere. It probably has the result you describe, But I'm pretty sure they don't do it for that or any other reason other than that they're trained seals who are kind of dumb and who've been exposed to absolutely no other way of behaving. Refusing to state your preference when a man or boy asks you is like the respiration and heartbeat to Jill and her sisters, I think. It's just been their natural response forever.

Edited September 18, 2016 by Churchhoney

[Churchhoney]

9 hours ago, lascuba said:

So I'm the only one who thinks those were big fat crocodile tears during that interview? Jill practically jammed her finger in her eyes for a while before any tears came out, and she certainly wasn't sobbing. She was upset, yes, but not devastated over anything other than the evil media conspiring to ruin her family.

That's one reason she was upset. Sure. But in my opinion there's also no way in hell she -- along with the others -- doesn't have buried unresolved bad tear-inducing pain over the original events that caused all this and that that pain doesn't actually come out sometimes and probably did when Jill was crying.

What happened to them was never resolved, never even dealt with. They were at least to some extent blamed for it. It certainly caused unseen-by-us havoc and rage in their home while they were very young impressionable girls. And then because their parents are both stupid and venal they were ordered to bury it, bury it deep, bury it deeper, forget it, forgive and allow their abuser back into his role as top dog in the family because God commands it, and never ever mention it again lest the family be destroyed. As far as I can see, there's no way that, when the original incident was exposed to the world, a million terrible buried pains didn't come out and cause them anguish right along with the anguish that they were feeling over the exposure and the blows to their future hopes. Just because we've suppressed something doesn't mean it won't cause pain years later. Seems like a lot of times suppressed stuff triggers more pain and tears than unsuppressed stuff, whether we know that or not.

The idea that somebody can go through what Jill did as a young kid, then have the event papered over and hushed up with no acknowledgment of pain but some assignment of guilt to her, and then be left years later with nothing but crocodile tears for it makes absolutely no sense to me. She couldn't have a solid refreshing cry because she's too damned conflicted. But I can't imagine that there wasn't a lot more unconsciously going on there than -- I'll put on some tears cause I'm mad at the media.

[Minivanessa]

18 hours ago, cereality said:

So in that IG pic (with the broccoli) why are they watching Dave Ramsey? Money problems for the Dillards? Must be weird for the Dillards to have to do some financial planning rather than - God will provide and the TLC show will be on forever.

They didn't say why, so we're all speculating. I think Derick is trying to educate Jill about money and finances. Remember, he's an accountant and unlike Jill has been in charge of his own money (and budget) at least since he graduated from college, and probably before. His mother went from corporate executive to small business proprietor/owner, so I think Derick was used to people in his family understanding money and personal finance. His mother may have taught her sons some money lessons at home, and IMO she probably expected them to be responsible for handling their own money after they left home for college. Maybe Derick was always calling or texting his mom for handouts and bailouts - it's possible, but IMO not probable. He was, after all, getting a degree in accounting. 

I assume Derick entered marriage expecting that he and his wife would handle their family finances. He probably discovered that his wife, at age 22, had no experience with the kinds of financial decisions that many if not most people have had by that age: budgeting for housing, clothing, cars, insurance, entertainment, education, savings - not to mention earning their own money and paying taxes. 

For all I know, Jill never really thought much about money, or that she and her husband would be handling their own finances, vs. it all somehow being part of the Duggar family empire. Maybe like the girls' communal clothes closet, where each of them grabbed something to wear when getting dressed. 

Derick may be in his own quiet way, determined to maintain his family finances separate from the Duggars. He may be going through the Dave Ramsey videos with Jill, as a way to get her comfortable with the concept that she and Derick can indeed survive and even thrive as a family unit of their own. That could be a new, unknown, and scary idea for her. We saw on the show how Jim Bob yakked about "buy used, save the difference," and was always cheaping out on anything for the kids including clothes and shoes. And at the same time, MEchelle was always clutching a $tarbuck$ cup, and there are two private planes in the family, and a huge bus. I think if that's all you knew - and I think it is all Jill knew - you wouldn't have much practical knowledge about money. 

I doubt they are in financial trouble. I think Derick's trying to head off financial trouble down the road, while also getting Jill more up to speed.

Edited to add: Even if Derick and Jill subscribe to the fundie/Gothard/Quiverfull belief that Derick as "Headship" will make the family's money decisions? IMO he's still got to get her comfortable with the concept that they can survive as a family unit, and a financial unit, separate from her family of origin. In which she seems enmeshed in so many ways. (And yeah, I find that "headship male must control all the money" idea bizarre and distasteful, along with so many of the other fundie ideas they espouse. Different strokes, as the saying goes.)

Edited September 18, 2016 by Jeeves

[Arwen Evenstar]

Jill has been Duggar Dumb in Duggardom for so long that it wouldn't surprise me at all if Derick wasn't trying to give her some real survival tools should something happen to him.  You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink unless it wants to. 

I really think I could start liking this scruffy caveman if he's really trying to give her the gift of independence. Even though he's a religious man, I think he regards this religious patriarchy that Jill has been raised with as detrimental to her as it is detestable. A good many men I regard as godly, find these ideas of patriarchy to be toxic and want no part of it. More mainstream Christians believe "headship' to be the tie breaker on a decision if the couple can't agree after much discussion and prayer/contemplation of the right decision, rather than a dictatorship where a wife has no say or opinions of her own.

With authority, comes responsibility, so that decision isn't made simply by who has the testicles, but it's made with thought in the best interests of all involved.  Gothard boys sure love that authority, but they blame the devil or anyone/anything but themselves when things go south.

Just keep beating your chest and posturing like a male silverback, JB, while you do your poo flinging and territorial pissing to show your superiority over all other males. 

[Minivanessa]

@Arwen Evenstar - "Duggar Dumb in Duggardom" - LOVE it!!!

[sometimesy]

I think Jill is swaying decisions, I just don't think she is doing so by contributing to discussions. I think she may whine about missing her family, water, electricity, hint hint. 

I wonder if the reason they are watching finance videos and eating on their own is because Derelict set down some boundaries for their return? Good for him, if he did. 

[JoanArc]

Didn't see the episode, but did Jill just sit there with a blank stare while another woman wept in front of her in CA? She really learning nothing from the Fox interview experience. Her parents must be proud.

[BitterApple]

16 minutes ago, JoanArc said:

Didn't see the episode, but did Jill just sit there with a blank stare while another woman wept in front of her in CA? She really learning nothing from the Fox interview experience. Her parents must be proud.

Yes she did. Jill sat there completely stone faced while the translator comforted the woman. None of the Duggar kids have empathy, Jill included. She probably thought the woman brought her marital problems on herself by not praying enough or being joyfully available. 

[Temperance]

They're listening to Dave Ramsey, because part of the Duggar brand is worrying about money. Since the first appeared on tv, they yammer on and on about saving money.  Figuring out how to save money is one of their main hobbies. So of course they spend time listening to how to save money. 

[MargeGunderson]

1 hour ago, Temperance said:

They're listening to Dave Ramsey, because part of the Duggar brand is worrying about money. Since the first appeared on tv, they yammer on and on about saving money.  Figuring out how to save money is one of their main hobbies. So of course they spend time listening to how to save money. 

Perhaps they should start thinking about how they are going to earn money. Once the TLC money train comes to a halt they are going to be in a world of trouble. So far none of the girls are marrying men with a much in the way of earning potential (and we know the girls aren't going to contribute) and there's no reason to think that the boys are going to do much more than "work" for JB, whatever that means. At some point JB's business ventures are going to be the only money coming in for all of them and that's not going to be enough. 

[JoanArc]

Quote

Figuring out how to save money is one of their main hobbies.

of course, then they go back to their day job: Pissing money away. New Plane? Long Trip? New York Roof Engagement? Starbucks with eating out every meal?

Edited September 18, 2016 by JoanArc

[Sew Sumi]

55 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

Agreed. Boob's worth an estimated 3 mil, but that isn't jack when you're supporting 30 Leeches and Counting. I can't imagine he pulls in enough income off those rental properties to keep everyone afloat for the next fifty years. 

Taking response to Boob/Mechelle thread. 

Edited September 18, 2016 by Sew Sumi

[Portia]

10 hours ago, Jeeves said:

They didn't say why, so we're all speculating. I think Derick is trying to educate Jill about money and finances..

B-b-b-but didn't she learn all about bank-rupt-cy at the SOTDRT?

[OpieTaylor]

6 hours ago, Temperance said:

They're listening to Dave Ramsey, because part of the Duggar brand is worrying about money. Since the first appeared on tv, they yammer on and on about saving money.  Figuring out how to save money is one of their main hobbies. So of course they spend time listening to how to save money.

Here's a kinda wild idea: The Duggars are dreaming of/planning a Duggar Empire Product Line and part of it will be "get out of debt/ live out of debt" products, which accountant Dreck is going to be in charge of (under CEO Boob of course), so the Dullards are studying the Dave Ramsey products to become experts in (rip off) his business. (Although if this were true, they probably wouldn't mention Dave Ramsey by name on social media, but, hey, they're dumb.)  

[Lemur]

12 hours ago, OpieTaylor said:

Here's a kinda wild idea: The Duggars are dreaming of/planning a Duggar Empire Product Line and part of it will be "get out of debt/ live out of debt" products, which accountant Dreck is going to be in charge of (under CEO Boob of course), so the Dullards are studying the Dave Ramsey products to become experts in (rip off) his business. (Although if this were true, they probably wouldn't mention Dave Ramsey by name on social media, but, hey, they're dumb.)  

Fantastic.  And which one of the Preacher/Mechanics/EMTs/Pay-for-Play Sheriffs will beat the drum of the Prosperity Gospel?  

[Aja]

15 hours ago, OpieTaylor said:

Here's a kinda wild idea: The Duggars are dreaming of/planning a Duggar Empire Product Line and part of it will be "get out of debt/ live out of debt" products, which accountant Dreck is going to be in charge of (under CEO Boob of course), so the Dullards are studying the Dave Ramsey products to become experts in (rip off) his business. (Although if this were true, they probably wouldn't mention Dave Ramsey by name on social media, but, hey, they're dumb.)  

See, this is the thing. Any one of the Duggars (or all of them as a unit) could build on the name recognition and branch off into ventures like this. Any one of the kids could, at any time, break away and build a career (or at least profit handsomely off of the initial publicity wave) out of a tell-all, or at least a tell-some. It could work the other way too. Build on whatever it is that appeals so much to fundies and expand. Invest in some real-world PR education and figure it out. The hard part is done--everyone knows who they are already because of evil liberal media outlets such as People and The Today Show--the public loves a good redemption story. But they're too dumb and lazy even for that. They just want to sit around and wait for the TLC checks to roll in or wait for some other publishing company to send them a ghost writer and then wait for those checks to roll in. When Josh completely destroyed their initial facade of perfect godliness, it was immediately clear that their ONLY focus was minimize, minimize, minimize and get the show back on the air, and is a perfect demonstration of what I'm talking about. Right now I'm completely ignoring the horrific implications for the victims of the abuse; I'm just keeping my focus where the Duggars kept theirs. Wouldn't you think, in the wake of such a disgusting scandal, if you REALLY want to keep your show on the air so badly, it would behoove you to do some basic PR research? Nope. Too lazy even for that. Just go on the air and blame the public for being horrified that their son molested their daughters and they did nothing to help them except send him off to do manual labor for a minute. We're the evil heathens for taking issue with the fact that their son violated his sisters even though it was no big deal because they were asleep and fully clothed and didn't even know what happened until they suddenly found themselves in front of a church congregation "forgiving" their brother. There were a million different ways to deal with the scandal when it first broke, and they chose the absolute worst in achieving their ultimate goal. Jill and Derick don't have to grift. They choose to. 

[GeeGolly]

4 hours ago, Aja said:

See, this is the thing. Any one of the Duggars (or all of them as a unit) could build on the name recognition and branch off into ventures like this. Any one of the kids could, at any time, break away and build a career (or at least profit handsomely off of the initial publicity wave) out of a tell-all, or at least a tell-some. It could work the other way too. Build on whatever it is that appeals so much to fundies and expand. Invest in some real-world PR education and figure it out. The hard part is done--everyone knows who they are already because of evil liberal media outlets such as People and The Today Show--the public loves a good redemption story. But they're too dumb and lazy even for that. They just want to sit around and wait for the TLC checks to roll in or wait for some other publishing company to send them a ghost writer and then wait for those checks to roll in. When Josh completely destroyed their initial facade of perfect godliness, it was immediately clear that their ONLY focus was minimize, minimize, minimize and get the show back on the air, and is a perfect demonstration of what I'm talking about. Right now I'm completely ignoring the horrific implications for the victims of the abuse; I'm just keeping my focus where the Duggars kept theirs. Wouldn't you think, in the wake of such a disgusting scandal, if you REALLY want to keep your show on the air so badly, it would behoove you to do some basic PR research? Nope. Too lazy even for that. Just go on the air and blame the public for being horrified that their son molested their daughters and they did nothing to help them except send him off to do manual labor for a minute. We're the evil heathens for taking issue with the fact that their son violated his sisters even though it was no big deal because they were asleep and fully clothed and didn't even know what happened until they suddenly found themselves in front of a church congregation "forgiving" their brother. There were a million different ways to deal with the scandal when it first broke, and they chose the absolute worst in achieving their ultimate goal. Jill and Derick don't have to grift. They choose to. 

So true. And it wouldn't have been so hard at all ... they could have opened the interview with the Fox lady with, It was a hard time and we did the best we knew at the time and that maybe they could have handled thing differently ... and acknowledging their understanding of the many feelings and reactions of the public, and maybe adding that it being brought to the surface again might make it a good time for the girls and Josh to check in with counselors.

They still could have asked for privacy and explained that having the public know about this and talking about it is hard for the girls.

It is a normal defense mechanism to try normalize and minimize crap, but a good PR person would have told them not to do that.

Self-righteousness is such a part of ALL of the Duggars bullshit.

 

As far as maximizing their name recognition they are lacking something important - talent. Cookbook - uhm nope. Being thrifty - nope. Living green - nope. Upcycling clothing - nope. Party planning - nope. Organization - maybe?

They aren't even close to being Jacks of all trades, and they certainly are Masters of none.

[Malvina]

[Malvina]

[Sew Sumi]

Why is Dreck the only male in that picture (aside from Izzy)? Has he also become a Stage 5 Clinger?  I assume this was part of the Dullard family reunion they went to a couple of weeks ago in Oklahoma. 

[louannems]

Derick's mom is so pretty.  She looks so happy holding Izzy again.

[Scarlett45]

54 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

Why is Dreck the only male in that picture (aside from Izzy)? Has he also become a Stage 5 Clinger?  I assume this was part of the Dullard family reunion they went to a couple of weeks ago in Oklahoma. 

Maybe the only other male was taking the photo? I don't think it's that odd, some families are one gender heavy. Also a family reunion may be something the women are more into than men. 

[Sew Sumi]

Nah, I saw pictures from the reunion with other men, including his brother. I think Jill and the fiancee were in those, but it also wasn't nearly as many men as we have women here. Derick's pictures were also men of his mother's generation; I know he has male cousins his age. At least one served as a groomsman. He of The Ass. 

I get that they probably wanted a picture of all the women. I'm sure most of those ladies are married. We know Cathy is; where's her husband? 

Sorry, I find Dreck's presence in that picture oddly misplaced. 

[sometimesy]

So I expect an FU internet moment, but the last few pics we've seen Izzy is with someone else. I really don't think Jill is into parenthood. I think she likes to be with her buddy Derelict and let anyone else take over Izzy. It could be the biggest issue for her at the mission, raising her own child. 

2 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

Why is Dreck the only male in that picture (aside from Izzy)? Has he also become a Stage 5 Clinger?  I assume this was part of the Dullard family reunion they went to a couple of weeks ago in Oklahoma. 

Jill cannot be without her accountability partner duh. She might become a lez-bean in this setting. 

[lulu69]

And once again Izzy is barefoot in an airport. Not gross at all....

[Arwen Evenstar]

9 minutes ago, lulu69 said:

And once again Izzy is barefoot in an airport. Not gross at all....

A lot of children don't like wearing shoes...it's no big deal most of the time, but in germy public places (eek)and since everyone has to take off their shoes anyway to go thru security, she maybe just hasn't yet put them back on.  I'll give her a pass, since he might have pulled them off himself. Kids!

i wonder if removing one's shoes lands them on the blanket for a swat. Nothing surprises me with Duggars, but little Izzy should get to set his piggies free.

[Churchhoney]

9 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

Why is Dreck the only male in that picture (aside from Izzy)? Has he also become a Stage 5 Clinger?

Jill may have freaked out about the idea of being alone in a room with only his relatives so he was trying to make her comfortable. Social situations outside the family and outside the cult family are clearly a big disaster for most if not all the Duggarlings, I think. Look at Jessa's brittle, uncomfortable demeanor in the visit-the-cool-kids situations that Bin's dragged her into. And she's supposedly the tough and strong one. So Jill, who's hella fragile at this point, is going to want her security missionary accountant.

The more we see them interacting with other people, the more it seems clear to me that, while the Dugg females can give speeches and be "on" at political rallies, and while they can be comfortable in all-Gothardite crowds, they really don't know how to interact on an everyday social basis with regular people at all (even English-speaking ones!)...... And it looks to me as if it might even be worse for the Dugg males, given reports that even at political rallies and such the older guys aside from Josh really don't speak to anybody.

They're poorly socialized dogs, and as a poorly socialized dog myself I recognize it and sympathize. I was lucky enough to go off on my own at a certain point so I became more comfortable, but to their eternal detriment the Duggs are still totally wrapped up in the social straitjacket of family and cult and may never learn to interact even slightly comfortably with people outside of those circles.

Edited September 20, 2016 by Churchhoney

[Churchhoney]

1 hour ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

A lot of children don't like wearing shoes...it's no big deal most of the time, but in germy public places (eek)and since everyone has to take off their shoes anyway to go thru security, she maybe just hasn't yet put them back on.  I'll give her a pass, since he might have pulled them off himself. Kids!

i wonder if removing one's shoes lands them on the blanket for a swat. Nothing surprises me with Duggars, but little Izzy should get to set his piggies free.

Actually, TSA lets kids under 12 keep their shoes on. ....    But I agree about giving the Dills a bit of a pass on this. He may have taken them off himself and just run.

But I also expect that all the Dugg women, especially, are way less conscious of public-place-dirt-and-danger-issues than most of us. Think of all the places they've flipped around in their flops. All the Dugg females are near-barefoot almost all of the time, no matter what they're doing -- shopping, building construction, mountain climbing. We've seen photos of clearly cold days when the Dugg boys were coated and booted up and the girls are still in flip flops and flimsy skirts. This is their way of life and it doesn't even occur to them, I don't think.

[laurakaye]

Is Jill sitting on Derrick's lap in that picture?  Should I be scandalized?

[Lady Edith]

I think that's a young boy on the same sofa as Dereck.   Green shirt.  On my phone it looks like he has a buzz cut.  

Maybe this is a grandkids/cousins pic and as someone said upthread, maybe Dereck's family is heavily slanted female...and his brother may be taking the pic. 

[DangerousMinds]

10 hours ago, Malvina said:

Is he barefoot?