Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!

[BitterApple]

Here's what I don't get: SOS allegedly has so many converts, so why don't they hire THEM to preach to the masses? It's a win/win. You have people who know the area, are already fluent in Spanish and it would provide income to support their families, thus helping to break the cycle of poverty. Or does that approach encompass too much logic and common sense?

That 20k could've been put to much better use than buying the Dullards a new home.

Edited April 16, 2016 by BitterApple

[Churchhoney]

Is it typical of missionaries to act as seasoned professionals in various careers when they're not? Do most enter people's lives as counselors and teachers without any education? Are Jill & Derick the exception and not the rule? It feels so patronizing and condescending to me.

 

Well, we're all saying "The Dillards, the Dillards, the rotten rotten Dillards!!!" But it seems pretty clear to me that among the kind of "mission" groups that they hang around with, and the participants in those particular "mission" groups, which include tons of U.S. Christians, who take all those trips, the stuff the Dillards are doing is absolutely commonplace. The blurb on the house, for example, wasn't written by the Dillards. That seems to have been SOS, and it was massive hogwash. And they're participating in a "program" that clearly promises to be all things to all men in the areas it works in, when it's perfectly clear that the people running it aren't particularly trained or qualified to be much of anything to any men at all.

 

The Dugg/Dills aren't making up the stuff they say. They're part of a whole subculture of "mission" -- and Jill's been part of that subculture all her life -- that consists of a lot of half-assed 'Mur'cans running around pretending to "save" people abroad in multiple ways without any particular skills to contribute and without any cultural understanding or desire to gain any. Just a lot of Jizm Bobs bringing sackloads of cheap hard candy and their uppity scared white-ass US offspring, standing around looking uncomfortable in tight knots of tee-shirted 'Mur'cans, and then flying back again proud as Punch about how they advanced Christ's kingdom and full of stupid culturally insensitive observations to publish online the way Jessica Seewald did. And not only are they proud of their role in the "missions" but it appears that the top "missionaries" who run these groups are proud of them and encourage their nonsensical "mission trips."

 

And not just the Dillards but all these "missionaries" are donation-fueled -- although I'm not sure how much of a problem that is, since I expect that most of the donors both enthusiastically embrace the idea that these U.S. whiteys are doing great things and look forward to going on these "mission trips" themselves, where they'll imagine they are doing God's great work by eating at Pizza Hut and engaging in interpretive dance. All the stuff they're doing seems to be well accepted by a subculture that likely includes millions of people. That's kind of mind-boggling to me, but it looks as if it's the fact.

Edited April 16, 2016 by Churchhoney

[Missy Vixen]

 

And not just the Dillards but all these "missionaries" are donation-fueled -- although I'm not sure how much of a problem that is, since I expect that most of the donors both enthusiastically embrace the idea that these U.S. whiteys are doing great things and look forward to going on these "mission trips" themselves, where they'll imagine they are doing God's great work by eating at Pizza Hut and engaging in interpretive dance. All the stuff they're doing seems to be well accepted by a subculture that likely includes millions of people. 

The donors (and those who actually "travel to the mission field" for a week of handing out candy and nail-painting) think they're obeying THE LORD in sharing the good news. And they can come home and brag (or humblebrag to their Bible study group) how they're financially supporting Reaching The Lost For Jesus. It's a scam. There's a guy in our hometown who does this on a smaller scale every year -- goes to Mexico to hand out soccer balls and do arts and crafts with kids and calls it a "ministry". Considering the fact there's poor kids in every city in the United States who'd like to do some arts and crafts and kick the soccer ball around, I find it precious that the kids in a tropical climate "need Jesus" more than kids in Seattle's Central District do, for example. Then again, I'm a cynic.

 

Speaking of a scam, it seems that SOS must have struck some type of deal with Jilly Muffin and Triple D. My theory: The chance to spend a week or so with the DuggarDillards has proven to be quite a fundraiser for SOS; the house was built to get them to stay long-term (well, at least six months a year -- Triple D has orthodontist appointments and Jilly Muffin will need to see the OB/GYN, you know) and lure the leghumpers into the missioncation field. Jilly Muffin and Triple D can talk about how persecuted they are and how their marriage was strengthened by walking through the fire and they covet donations to continue the work. 

 

If I was reallllyyyyyy cynical, I would wonder if they are planning on "borrowing" the two boys who need to "learn English" to appear on Counting On. They're working really hard! And they need donations to keep working! Despite the fact they have at least three income streams now...

 

I wonder if Jesus ate at the Pizza Hut and did interpretive dance.

[Mollie]

My kitchen could use an update. I think I'll start a ministry and preach the house hunters gospel of granite countertops, stainless steel appliances. I'm sure God wants me to spread the word. This way I get other people to pay for it.

It seems about as useful as the SOS ministries.

You are thinking too small.  S.O.S. Hope Ministries brings in over $600,000 per year and has over $677,438 in assets (real estate, vehicles, cash).

[BitterApple]

You are thinking too small. S.O.S. Hope Ministries brings in over $600,000 per year and has over $677,438 in assets (real estate, vehicles, cash).

What?!!!! 600k per year?!!! And all they have to show for it is one ramshackle warehouse? Should we take bets on where Mike Schadt is stashing the money? Cayman Islands, Belize, Costa Rica, Isle of Man? Wow, that is one hell of a scam.

Edited April 16, 2016 by BitterApple

[Mollie]

What?!!!! 600k per year?!!! And all they have to show for it is one ramshackle warehouse? Should we take bets on where Mike Schadt is stashing the money? Cayman Islands, Belize, Costa Rica, Isle of Man? Wow, that is one hell of a scam.

And now you can see why the Dillards opened their own non-profit to collect donations.  

[NikSac]

But they still have 5 of their 7 projects that need funding since they diverted so much money to the Dillard residence, right? If I read that thing correctly.

[sometimesy]

The Dullards fake mission baloney < Bin's (misguided) inner city mission fantasy. 

[Oldernowiser]

WTF is with "edifying the saints"? Aren't they, well, saints, and also dead?

[Missy Vixen]

WTF is with "edifying the saints"? Aren't they, well, saints, and also dead?

It's a fancy term for humblebragging to the rest of the church and "lifting them up" -- well, lifting them off their wallets so they can give more!

[Churchhoney]

WTF is with "edifying the saints"? Aren't they, well, saints, and also dead?

In fundiespeak I think it means "continue preaching to and 'encouraging' people who've already 'committed their lives to the correct version of Jesus.'"     In other words, keep close contact with the people who've already converted, don't just keep trying to convert more of "the lost"  (read -- in this case, at least -- "Catholics.")

[queenanne]

Is it typical of missionaries to act as seasoned professionals in various careers when they're not? Do most enter people's lives as counselors and teachers without any education? Are Jill & Derick the exception and not the rule? It feels so patronizing and condescending to me.

 

Any missionaries I know were embedded for years ultimately, and took 2-3 years of training before they even went to the mission field.  I think there is *a* subculture o missionaries in this vein, as others have said, but they don't all get tarred with the same brush.  In fact, I bet many of them have religious, education, or religious education degrees from various versions of Christian colleges.

 

Here's what I don't get: SOS allegedly has so many converts, so why don't they hire THEM to preach to the masses? It's a win/win. You have people who know the area, are already fluent in Spanish and it would provide income to support their families, thus helping to break the cycle of poverty. Or does that approach encompass too much logic and common sense?

 

I don't think they can do that as nascent Christians - they might preach the wrong gospel and inadvertently lead folks astray.  

[Oldernowiser]

In fundiespeak I think it means "continue preaching to and 'encouraging' people who've already 'committed their lives to the correct version of Jesus.'"     In other words, keep close contact with the people who've already converted, don't just keep trying to convert more of "the lost"  (read -- in this case, at least -- "Catholics.")

So these "committed" people are considered...saints?

The hell?

No wonder Duggars have such inflated opinions of themselves...

[Churchhoney]

So these "committed" people are considered...saints?

The hell?

No wonder Duggars have such inflated opinions of themselves...

 

Yeah, could be!

 

As I understand it, though, it's an old tradition in quite a few Protestant sects (not all, though) to refer to all church members or believers as "saints." It's basically another way to set the every-person-in-direct-relationship-with-God Protestant theology apart from what many Protestants over the whole history of the reformation have seen as the wrongheaded hierarchy of the Catholic church, which they view as putting a lot of layers -- including the layer of Catholic saints -- between the individual human and God. The New England Puritans used the term "saints' in that way, and you find it in various pieces of Protestant literature used that way.

[duggarshow]

Did you guys see the picture of the house on Pickles? It looks there's a really steep drop-off where the front yard meets the sides. That should be safe for Izzy.

I also want to add that the comments are hilarious. Nobody is missing the fact that the Dullards are living in a brand new home while those they're claiming to help reside in shacks with no first world amenities.

To be fair, Jill and Derrick don't own that home and they never will. SOS Ministries owns it. Neither did Jill and Derrick publish those photos or claim to be living in poverty. Jill and Derrick are not the ones asking for donations in this particular instance, SOS Ministries is.

Edited April 17, 2016 by duggarfan

[Sew Sumi]

They're asking for plenty of donations via their blog and their "ministry," though. THAT is a flat-out scam. I hope they sleep well at night, knowing that they're fleecing the people who feed them. 

[GeeGolly]

There are a lot of different scenarios that could have occurred with Jill & Derick and their ministry. Maybe SOS said to them you're on your own dime until we get things in place, or maybe J & D are planning on being their own ministry at one point and jumped the gun, or maybe they're scamming. Their lack of transparency and accountability combined with the Duggar pattern of exaggeration is allowing people to doubt their every move.

 

The fact that we know they read comments and articles written about them and they still leave everyone wondering makes me think that it is all of the above. Two naive kids who acted impulsively to become overseas missionaries, without doing their homework, and maybe not even realizing they were/are grifting.

 

I'm totally confused that they're still fundraising though. Do they work for SOS? Because if they do, then SOS must be paying them or giving them a stipend. And Jill and Derick must be getting some TLC money. If they want to help these boys get English lessons, J & D could just pay for it themselves.

 

Jill & Derick could take a few minutes of their time and explain things. Like I said, the fact that they don't is suspicious.

Edited April 17, 2016 by GeeGolly

[Mollie]

I'm totally confused that they're still fundraising though. Do they work for SOS? Because if they do, then SOS must be paying them or giving them a stipend. And Jill and Derick must be getting some TLC money. If they want to help these boys get English lessons, J & D could just pay for it themselves.

 

Jill & Derick could take a few minutes of their time and explain things. Like I said, the fact that they don't is suspicious.

 

In June, 2015, Radar Online reported receiving this auto-response when it contacted Derick at his Walmart email address.

"I have recently accepted a position outside of Walmart and am no longer working for the company."

 

That indicates that he accepted a bona fide job, not that he was leaving to become a self-employed missionary.  The Dillards announced that they were leaving to be missionaries on a TLC preview of an unaired show in May, 2015.  (That was just before the Josh sexual molestations of his sisters hit the press on May 19.)  During that Spring, S.O.S. Hope Ministries was raising money to build a house for new missionaries and the deadline for completion was June, 2015, when the new missionary couple was expected to live in it.

 

In January, 2016, S.O.S. Hope Ministries of Clearwater, FL, released this statement:

"It is SOS's privilege to introduce Derick and Jill Dillard to the Latin mission. They will come alongside Alex Lara, our Director of Missions for Latin America, to assist, preach, and engage the new regions. We have prepared, trained and now appointed them. Derick will focus on the men and young people, while Jill will focus on women and children ministry. Both of them will help with strengthening and encouraging married couples, which is mostly neglected in the Latin world, and they have already led a group from the church to a new region to preach the gospel…. To financially support their work and the work of many others in the Americas, Africa, and mid-Asia, visit SOSHope.org."

 

This clearly says that S.O.S. "prepared" and "trained" (Spanish lessons) Jill and Derick. Also, S.O.S. asked that money be sent to its organization to support the missionary work of Jill and Derick in Central America, not to the Dillards directly.

 

The Dillards appear to be double-dipping in the fundraising department, and they are doing this with the help of Ma and Pa Duggar who are also asking people to send $$ to the Dillards' personal ministry organization, not to S.O.S.

 

I can't believe that the Dillards and Duggars are getting away with this kind of fundraising scam.

Edited April 17, 2016 by Mollie

[Churchhoney]

The Dillards appear to be double-dipping in the fundraising department, and they are doing this with the help of Ma and Pa Duggar who are also asking people to send $$ to the Dillards' personal ministry organization, not to S.O.S.

 

I can't believe that the Dillards and Duggars are getting away with this kind of fundraising scam.

 

I expect that in their minds the funds they're asking for aren't personal funds but funds that will be used to bring more people to God by providing additional support for "missionary" work. Looked at that way, you wouldn't see any mission-related fundraising as double-dipping or as excessive. For people to give more to missionaries is an increase in charity, and that's always a good thing. Ergo, it's a good thing in this case.

 

That the rest of us may see their solicitations crossing the line into greed at some point just doesn't occur to any of them, I imagine. Some combination of naivete, ignorance, stupidity, denial, self-delusion and arrogance (and larceny?) prevents them from seeing it that way. And I very much doubt that SOS discourages any of their "mission" associates from any sort of fundraising, since they're obviously well into the exact same mindset. This is a whole grifty little subculture that justifies all its actions by averring that they're bringing souls to Jesus.

[Arwen Evenstar]

And henceforth, Pa Duggar will be known to all as HE OF THE HOLY PHALLUS.

This should become an official acronym of our forum

HOTHP=He of the Holy Phallus=AKA Jim Boob

TFDW=The Fabulous David Waller

SOTDRT=School of the Dining Room Table

[Arwen Evenstar]

It looks like they've heard the cries of no affection, because who brings their wife Froot Loops and kiwis as "breakfast in bed" other than these morons and calls it love (other than college kids partying too hard)? And what time was it? 10? 

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/BEPkk-ZLs8m/?taken-by=jillmdillard

Well since they're both a pair of Froot Loops...why not....remember Fundie wives have to keep crowing about how "aaaaamaaaaaaaaazing" their husband is.....

Describing Jill as parasitic is dead on....she's suctioned on to Derick like a parasitic twin. Even though I'm sure he loves her....that's got to suffocating beyond belief.

[CofCinci]

How long until these grifters use the earthquake in Ecuador to exploit donations for their "mission"?

[JoanArc]

 

They're asking for plenty of donations via their blog and their "ministry," though. THAT is a flat-out scam. I hope they sleep well at night, knowing that they're fleecing the people who feed them.

Their entire lives are centered on having as few thoughts as possible, let alone disturbing ones, and certainly none about actual morality. I'm sure Jill sleeps like a baby. More's the pity.

 

On another topic - the fruit loop picture has cans of OFF! and a fly swatter by the key rack. I took the pic to say "we do too care about Zika!".

[pinkelephant3]

.

[sometimesy]

.

It's like you read the Dullards mind. eerie. 

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

In January, 2016, S.O.S. Hope Ministries of Clearwater, FL, released this statement:

"It is SOS's privilege to introduce Derick and Jill Dillard to the Latin mission. They will come alongside Alex Lara, our Director of Missions for Latin America, to assist, preach, and engage the new regions. We have prepared, trained and now appointed them. Derick will focus on the men and young people, while Jill will focus on women and children ministry. Both of them will help with strengthening and encouraging married couples, which is mostly neglected in the Latin world, and they have already led a group from the church to a new region to preach the gospel…. To financially support their work and the work of many others in the Americas, Africa, and mid-Asia, visit SOSHope.org.".

"Both of them will help with strengthening and encouraging married couples, which is mostly neglected in the Latin world."

Fuck these people. I'm not even Latino but that's offensive. And the idea that these two kids who were married for a little over a year (if that) when they began their mission (and basically never spent a second alone or really getting to know each other alone before they said "I do") have soooo much knowledge about marriage to impart to anyone is laughable.

[toodles]

Their entire lives are centered on having as few thoughts as possible, let alone disturbing ones, and certainly none about actual morality. I'm sure Jill sleeps like a baby. More's the pity.

 

On another topic - the fruit loop picture has cans of OFF! and a fly swatter by the key rack. I took the pic to say "we do too care about Zika!".

The only disturbing thoughts they have involve an actual job.  

[3girlsforus]

This mission organization is a joke. This isn't what mission work is about, at least not the mission work I've been involved with or supported. Mission work provides services: medical care, building wells for clean water, building schools, providing educational materials, building clinics, etc. Why on earth do they need to go down there and talk to these people about marriage. Even setting aside the obvious absurdity of two newlywed children providing marital counseling, who says marriage isn't valued in Latin America? They have a much lower divorce rate than the US and other parts of the world. And it can't be that they are trying to improve their marriages because in Duggar land they only care if you are still married, not if you are safe, happy, or loved.  

 

I'm sickened by the whole thing. 

[toodles]

"Both of them will help with strengthening and encouraging married couples, which is mostly neglected in the Latin world."

Fuck these people. I'm not even Latino but that's offensive. And the idea that these two kids who were married for a little over a year (if that) when they began their mission (and basically never spent a second alone or really getting to know each other alone before they said "I do") have soooo much knowledge about marriage to impart to anyone is laughable.

How is marriage so different in the Latin world?  That's a new one on me.  People there don't get married and raise families?  Or is it that they get married in the Catholic church, which I guess is what they really mean.  

 

If some Yeti told me my marriage and my life was all wrong because, well I don't know what the reason the Yeti would use, I would tell him to shove a sharp stick in the nearest orifice. Just pick one.  It wouldn't really matter.

 

The Duggar arrogance and hubris has reached a new level and that's saying something.

 

Put a check mark in the offensive column from me.

Edited April 18, 2016 by toodles

[JoanArc]

 

"Both of them will help with strengthening and encouraging married couples, which is mostly neglected in the Latin world."

DAFUQ? Jill, it helps to learn about a culture before you criticize it. Even now, she's live a pretty Anglo life in Danger America, anyways. Walmart, Papa Johns, hanging around the house, making only a cursory attempt at Spanish*, vising the locals like she's feeding animals in a petting zoo...

 

Not to mention, there are many huge Latin American families that love Jesus as much as she does.

 

*WTF aren't their blog post bilingual now? They'd attract a greater number of people to fleece, er, save.

[mbutterfly]

Weirdly, the sinner's prayer is not lifted directly from the bible! Even though the folks who stake everything on it are the ones who are dogmatic in "bible only." So the wording might vary a bit from person to person/church to church but basically it amounts to, "Dear Heavenly Father, I know that I am a sinner deserving of hell, and I ask for your forgiveness. I believe you sent your son Jesus Christ to die on the cross for my sins and rise from the dead. I turn from my sins and invite you to come into my heart. Amen."

 

Maybe this explains to you a bit why they feel "missionary work" is so needed -- they really do believe that anyone who has not understood and uttered this prayer is going to scream and burn for eternity. And that, or course, would be the majority of the world, considering that many self-identifying Christians have not even prayed it!

It is strange they use a prayer that isn't in the Bible at all. I hadn't really heard of the "Sinner's Prayer" until I read here. It sounds almost like a creedal statement. 

[Joe Jitsu913]

Jill is an expert at clinging to her (Fug) headship for dear life. I wonder if Derick is even allowed to wipe his ass in privacy. Jill probably waits behind the bathroom door, lest Derick make an escape out the bathroom window and into the "dangerous" jungle of Central America, never to be seen again.

[Muffyn]

This should become an official acronym of our forum

HOTHP=He of the Holy Phallus=AKA Jim Boob

TFDW=The Fabulous David Waller

SOTDRT=School of the Dining Room Table

My sister and I refer to our eldest brother as The Holder of the Holy Penis.  Now I'll be mixing him up with Jim Bob.  Then again, they're both dicks, so the names are fitting. 

[Arwen Evenstar]

Love this!

How about HRH,PPP (Her Royal Highness, Princess Prickly Pear for JessaBlessa?

Love it! Jessa is so full of stank.

In Texas, we find the fruit of the prickly pear cactus makes amazing margaritas! Of course Jessa is the spiny part....aaaaaaaaaaaand the most intoxicating experience she allows herself is a sniff of her headship' drawers on wash day...unless Janarella or Grandma Mary has that dubious honor.

Edited April 19, 2016 by Arwen Evenstar

[JoanArc]

http://www.intouchweekly.com/posts/jill-duggar-midwife-complications-99467

 

 

Tiffany exclusively reveals that she begged Jill (who was assisting Venessa during her daughter’s birth and had assisted Venessa with more than 100 births while training for her midwife certification) to call 911 at least three times during her brutal 14-hour labor, but Venessa wouldn’t let her, even though “I was crying and screaming out in pain.”

 

Tiffany also had Group B Strep, which can be extremely dangerous to a baby unless antibiotics are administered, and claims Venessa only offered her holistic remedies.

Venessa disputes the entire story, saying that she did call 911 and that Tiffany refused antibiotics.

 

In an odd twist, John-David Duggar, then working as an EMT, was the one to rush the newborn to the hospital.

After her traumatic birth, Jozzie spent 54 days in the hospital and was diagnosed with cerebral palsy.

Now we know why they're hiding out. Fuck Vanessa. With a rake.

 

And Jill, if this is true, may you rot in hell. You pretend to be a professional - a midwife, a nurse, an 'expert' but simply refuse to do the work.You know NOTHING, YOU ARE NOT A PROFESSIONAL. You are hopeless. You claim to love babies, then pull something like this, which only hurts babies. Jesus is nice and all, but YOU HAVE TO DO THE WORK, physically, mentally, emotionally, when you want to work in any kind of medical capacity. Fantasies about helping people won't cut it. I've been an RN for 10 years - I still learn things every day. I seek out new experiences to improve myself. I suggest you do the same. Start with a sense of humility and embarrassment. It'll help. (and mods, can we bring the c word back for like a week? It'd really help).

 

Oh, and when someone begs you to call 911 multiple times, in any instance, you do it, bitch.

[BitterApple]

Was the woman's husband there? Why the hell didn't HE call 911?

I'm hearing different versions of this story so I don't know what to believe. In her initial account that was posted on Pickles, Tiffany says Jill was just there as an apprentice and had no involvement with the birth beyond making notations in the chart. Now she's painting Jill as some kind of Nurse Ratchet who witheld emergency services from a distressed mother. I'm not saying she's a liar, but I'm wondering if there's an agenda ($$$$) behind the newer, more salacious version of events.

[toodles]

http://www.intouchweekly.com/posts/jill-duggar-midwife-complications-99467

Now we know why they're hiding out. Fuck Vanessa. With a rake.

And Jill, if this is true, may you rot in hell. You pretend to be a professional - a midwife, a nurse, an 'expert' but simply refuse to do the work.You know NOTHING, YOU ARE NOT A PROFESSIONAL. You are hopeless. You claim to love babies, then pull something like this, which only hurts babies. Jesus is nice and all, but YOU HAVE TO DO THE WORK, physically, mentally, emotionally, when you want to work in any kind of medical capacity. Fantasies about helping people won't cut it. I've been an RN for 10 years - I still learn things every day. I seek out new experiences to improve myself. I suggest you do the same. Start with a sense of humility and embarrassment. It'll help. (and mods, can we bring the c word back for like a week? It'd really help).

Oh, and when someone begs you to call 911 multiple times, in any instance, you do it, bitch.

I posted about this in the media thread. You did a much better job than I did. Edited April 21, 2016 by toodles

[cmr2014]

Personally, I don't think that Jill is qualified.

 

Unlike some other posters, I do believe that she completed the requirements and passed the test. On the other hand, she is a member of a cult -- and her cult training overrides anything else she may have learned. She may have learned the answers she was supposed to give on the test, but I don't think she believed them, she just wrote them down to pass the test. 

 

Her cult completely rejects the value of science, education, and training. The cult trains that God will choose who will live and who will die, and there is little to be done in a birth except stand by and catch the baby -- if God wills it. The cult completely devalues women, and expending resources on their care is simply not a priority.

 

It's not just Jill. I wouldn't trust any member of that cult to care for me, or anyone that I cared about.

[louannems]

But what about The Miracle Josie Baby?

[NikSac]

But wasn't 911 ok for Jill when SHE needed it?

[louannems]

But wasn't 911 ok for Jill when SHE needed it?

Jill was driven to the hospital. It was Jessa that was rushed off in the ambulance.

[Sew Sumi]

I thought Yeti drove her to the hospital, but who knows? There were so many gaps in her story.

[NikSac]

Ohh ok. I thought both of them ended up in ambulances. My bad.

[Churchhoney]

Personally, I don't think that Jill is qualified.

 

Unlike some other posters, I do believe that she completed the requirements and passed the test. On the other hand, she is a member of a cult -- and her cult training overrides anything else she may have learned. She may have learned the answers she was supposed to give on the test, but I don't think she believed them, she just wrote them down to pass the test. 

 

Her cult completely rejects the value of science, education, and training. The cult trains that God will choose who will live and who will die, and there is little to be done in a birth except stand by and catch the baby -- if God wills it. The cult completely devalues women, and expending resources on their care is simply not a priority.

 

It's not just Jill. I wouldn't trust any member of that cult to care for me, or anyone that I cared about.

 

And if the "Venessa ordered her not to call" part is true, there could be another cult contribution. Venessa was Jill's authority figure in this scenario (hard to believe that this loon could be anybody's authority figure, but still), and in the Gothard cult instant and total obedience thing to your authority figures is inculcated from birth as well -- so Jill-the-robot would have been following her cult training in listening to her as well. Rebelling doesn't seem to be in the ATI-provided repertoire, no matter how well advised rebellion might seem. And that's yet another reason not to trust people from the cult with any responsibility whatsoever. They'll follow orders, no matter how stupid, rather than look at a situation and respond to it based on what they're seeing. They're taught not to believe their own lying eyes.

[Sew Sumi]

I thought I read earlier that this delivery happened in Texas and is the reason Venessa can't practice there, either. But again, details are so mixed up in the several versions of this story that I've read, going back well over a year.

[Absolom]

This was the delivery in AR that caused Venessa to lose her license in AR. It was posted about on several places and Venessa's FB.   When it became public, TX may have/seems to have jumped on the bandwagon and pulled her license. 

 

I want to know why Tiffany didn't call 911 herself.  There is time between contractions or get the 911 operator to wait during contractions.  Where was her spouse/partner and why didn't that person call?  I was in a hospital and didn't think the nurse was calling my OB in a timely manner so I called him.  Upset the nurse, but she wasn't the one in labor so I told her next time I said something to take it seriously. 

[NikSac]

I want to know why Tiffany didn't call 911 herself.  There is time between contractions or get the 911 operator to wait during contractions.  Where was her spouse/partner and why didn't that person call?  I was in a hospital and didn't think the nurse was calling my OB in a timely manner so I called him.  Upset the nurse, but she wasn't the one in labor so I told her next time I said something to take it seriously. 

 

Please tell me they didn't keep the phone away from her. (this is nothing I've read so please no one take this as what happened, your question just got me wondering)

[Sew Sumi]

Yeah, that jives with the first stories that I read. The Texas stuff popped up on Free Jinger not long ago. Tiffany only confirmed the Strep B and cerebral palsy, no other details.

[kokapetl]

Was the woman's husband there? Why the hell didn't HE call 911?

I'm hearing different versions of this story so I don't know what to believe. In her initial account that was posted on Pickles, Tiffany says Jill was just there as an apprentice and had no involvement with the birth beyond making notations in the chart. Now she's painting Jill as some kind of Nurse Ratchet who witheld emergency services from a distressed mother. I'm not saying she's a liar, but I'm wondering if there's an agenda ($$$$) behind the newer, more salacious version of events.

Everyone involved in this sounds like a complete pinhead.

[3girlsforus]

This story does seem to be really convoluted and changing. I agree with BitterApple that the story seems to be changing to continually increase Jill's involvement from observer to helper to Machiavellian dictator intent on denying her healthcare. Seems like an agenda to me. Also, the story implies that the failure to call 911 caused the group B strep and subsequent complications from group B. This just isn't true. That isn't how group B works. The test for that should have been done a few weeks prior to delivery. Then being + for group B strep she should have received iv antibiotics during labor. It is unclear if she was never tested or if she was tested but they chose to not treat the group b (or used some kind of concoction that was crap). Getting the testing done and determining a course of action would be something the mother and Vanessa would have done, not an apprentice there just to witness the birth and take notes. I'm wondering if the evolution of the story is an attempt to implicate Jill more because the mother would have some culpability in the decision not to treat the group b step, thus limiting law suit possibilities. But if she suddenly declares that Jill and the Duggar wallet denied her requests to call 911, there might be more money to be had there.