Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!

[Ljohnson1987]

https://instagram.com/p/1rRoAsydrG/

 

Move over, Iz. Silas Timberlake has arrived. He's a cutie

[Darknight]

After having a c-section, my doctor advised not trying to get pregnant again for at least eighteen months. It makes me wonder what fundies do in this situation-do they make any attempt to delay getting pregnant? If she gets pregnant again quickly, won't that make a VBAC inadvisable? Did Michelle space her pregnancies out after her c-sections?

No. Jana and John David was a csection and she had preeclampsia. They were born in Jan 1990. Jill was born 1991 May. Then Jessa came November 1992, then she got pregnant with Jinger in 1993 December. My uterus hurts. I'm surprised Michelle didn't have any major complications between pregnancies.

[Darknight]

That's part of the horror of the belief system that her parents push. It's your fault because you didn't have enough faith, pray hard enough, or whatever, when it's a simple matter of genetics or of a baby getting distressed in labor which has zero to do with the strength of anyone's faith. I'm not against religion in general, but I obviously don't subscribe to what to me is a distortion of faith that Gothard sells. I hope Jill can come to terms with the situation and realize the Gothard premise is at fault, not her.

Jill needs serious therapy. Or at least someone to tell her there's nothing in the bible that says the bs her parents brainwashed her with.

[Emme]

Has Jill ever stated the length and weight of DerrickDullard when he was born?

I wondered that as well. I was shocked when my first was born at 10.5 lbs. my husband is tall (6'5"), but wasn't a large baby. I'm a foot shorter, and according to my doctor, I have a slender birth canal (LOL for some reason, during the haze of post c-section, this pleased me).

They say subsequent babies are usually larger, but mine got smaller - number two still large at 9.2, and the last two in the 7.5 range.

With adequate care, they can monitor Jill in future pregnancies for size. Also, they would probably not want her to go nearly two weeks past her due date again. It will be interesting to see what her future birthing options are.

[kstar821]

I had a c-section for my first, too, because of high blood pressure.  My OB was fine with me "trying for a VBAC" but there were no guarantees and there were some rules; I was not allowed to exceed my due date b/c of the baby possibly getting too big to push out and tear my uterus (my first was 8 1/2 pounds)  I was to come in on my due date to be induced.

Well...guess what?  My 2nd daughter decided to stay foot down the whole pregnancy and refused to turn.  I ended up with another c-section a few days before her due date.

 

It doesn't always work out how you want it to, Jilly Muffin, but it does always work out how God wants it to.  She should realize that.  

[Zahdii]

I hope that Jill has learned a few lessons from this.  No matter how much we think we know, a first time mother is always in for a few surprises, and we'll be surprised again with each subsequent pregnancy and delivery because each time the process is as unique as each person is.  The real key is to recognize that the goal of pregnancy is to deliver a child that is as healthy as possible, and born to a mother that is also as healthy as possible.  This doesn't happen in a vacuum.

 

The mother starts out by taking care of herself.  Learn as much as she can about what's going on, and have an experienced medically trained person to help her make decisions.  Eat as best as she can, take her supplements (and if she starts taking them even before she becomes pregnant, that's a bonus).  Exercise appropriately, get enough sleep, try to not get too stressed, etc.  Understand that while the parents might have a detailed birth plan, things might happen (and frequently do) that requires changes to be made.  Got to keep your eye on the prize: get that baby out in the safest way possible for the benefit of both baby and mom.

 

At this point, it doesn't seem like Jill has figured that out, but I'm hoping that she will do so before the next baby comes along.

 

Is it a fact that since she's had a C-section all further deliveries should take place in a hospital?  My local hospital has a midwife clinic attached to the hospital.  If problems arise the mother is taken directly to the obstetrics unit that is just across the hall (they renovated the hospital after being sued by a mother who was paraded through the emergency waiting room while up on all fours with the head partially out, and no one thought to at least cover her.  Now, if a home birth goes wrong the ambulance delivers to a private entrance at the midwife clinic.  It has a very good reputation now.)

 

The point is, if Jill is set on delivering VBAC, couldn't she do it at the hospital with her midwife in attendance and the doctors close by?

[Absolom]

Jill was using what in the states are called lay midwives.  They can not practice at hospitals.  Jill has risked out of using such people in the future in Arkansas.  She must be seen by a CNM or an OB or do it illegally.  I can't imagine that they will let her deliver at the least the next one anywhere except a hospital maternity department.  Not many hospitals in the US have attached birthing centers staffed by midwives.  There are some, but even then I'm not sure they'd take her as a patient and I don't think NWA has one.  There is at least one CNM birthing center, but I don't think it's part of a hospital.  

Edited April 20, 2015 by Absolom

[Literata]

 

Yeah -- the "no shame" thing didn't sit well with me either. He should have gone stronger and said she was 100% right to put the baby's/her health first -- everything else re vaginal vs. c or home vs. hospital is just "preference," but health is a "necessity." There's "no shame" -- no kidding Derick. Do you feel shame when you need antibiotics for strep throat or an x ray??

I didn't like that, either. But he's not the most well-spoken guy; I found myself wondering if he was possibly trying to reassure Jill, as maybe she was spouting some "failure" nonsense at some point.

[Literata]

 

I just read the People article at the gym and Lord, that baby looks exactly like Boob, especially through the nose and mouth.

It's unreal, isn't it? I caught some reruns over the weekend and had to laugh at Anna's reaction as she watched Marcus's ultrasound: "He looks like ... Jim Bob?"

 

Boob has some strong-ass genes. Really, very few of the kids look like MEchelle. Josie, definitely, but most of the rest are all Duggar.

 

I imagine Iz will end up looking quite a bit like Jill, who looks quite a bit like Jim-Bob.

[Absolom]

Michelle had a c-section and then vaginal births at home. Did she use a CNM or has the law changed?

I have wondered about that myself.  The current regulations were revised 2008 and I don't know what they were before that.  She seemed very comfortable with Anna delivering without any licensed assistance at all so I'm wondering if she went that route.  They are so fond of "family friends" helping out whether they are qualified or not so it makes me wonder what she did.  

 

I hope Jill has enough sense to follow the regulations, laws, and medical advice and not try to copy Michelle delivering at home likely without well trained and experienced assistance and monitoring.  

Edited April 20, 2015 by Absolom

[graefin]

It's unreal, isn't it? I caught some reruns over the weekend and had to laugh at Anna's reaction as she watched Marcus's ultrasound: "He looks like ... Jim Bob?"

Except now the resemblance between Marcus and Anna's father is overwhelming. (And I think Mackynzie is the spitting image of Josh while Michael looks like Anna.)

Edited April 20, 2015 by graefin

[Ljohnson1987]

I've always thought Michael was a mini Smuggar.

[3 is enough]

Yeah, the "no shame" remark didn't sit well with me either.  I can understand being disappointed that the birth didn't happen as planned, but what's done is done, just move on.  I never had a c-section, but in my mind the scariest part is not the actual procedure, but the fact that you have to recover from major surgery, while you still have to care for a newborn, which is exhausting even if you have an easy, uncomplicated birth.  Although I have heard (and maybe Doodlebug can speak to this) that subsequent c-sections are not as painful because the nerves have already been damaged with the first.  Have no idea whether this is fact or myth.

 

But in all seriousness, what if Jill was to develop PPD?  would she get help or just "pray it away"?  And is it more common in women who have had complicated births?  I am not talking "baby blues", which most women experience to some degree, but full blown post-partum depression.  There seems to be a lot of shame associated with it.  How would a Duggar handle it?  

[JoanArc]

 

How would a Duggar handle it?

Poorly. Real, legitimate depression doesn't exist in their world for either sex, for any reason. They've never been formally given skills for dealing with depression. PPD is just something made up, to them.

Edited April 20, 2015 by JoanArc

[Literata]

[snip]

 

[snip]

 

Jill makes me all kinds of insane, but I do wish the best for her and Iz; it would be nice to see some authentic mother-child bonding and subsequent closeness.

 

I've always thought Michael was a mini Smuggar.

I thought so initially, and I also thought MacKynzie was a miniature Mr. Keller. But now I think MacKynzie looks a little more like Josh, Michael looks like Anna and her sisters, and Marcus is now the one who looks like his maternal grandpa.

Edited April 22, 2015 by Rhondinella
off topic

[Jellybeans]

Perhaps Jill was the one expressing the"shame" and Derick was reassuring her (and other CS women) publicly as well as privately.

Edited April 20, 2015 by Jellybeans

[GEML]

I think Jill is ripe for PPD, given how difficult the birth was under ANY circumstances, and it does worry me a bit that she's not talked more about the baby.

[3girlsforus]

I think Jill is ripe for PPD, given how difficult the birth was under ANY circumstances, and it does worry me a bit that she's not talked more about the baby.

I agree... add to that the pressure of a public life that requires her to be all cheery and act like everything is wonderful.. 

[Seashell Lover]

I hope she is not blaming Izzy for the way his birth turned out as I know a few fundies who did blame the baby. 

[Fuzzysox]

I think Jill is ripe for PPD, given how difficult the birth was under ANY circumstances, and it does worry me a bit that she's not talked more about the baby.

ITA I hope she doesn't detach from the baby and loves him instead of having it in her head to hurry up and re-produce so she can have the experience she wanted.

[JoanArc]

 

ITA I hope she doesn't detach from the baby and loves him instead of having it in her head to hurry up and re-produce so she can have the experience she wanted.

Constantly chasing that perfect birth. She'd truly morph into Michelle.

[GEML]

[snip] Interestingly, I don't think Jill enjoyed being pregnant very much, and no one in her family treated her like the Queen she thought she was going to be. However, if she is somewhat coddled after this birth, she may come to view that as her specialness. Maybe even the fact that she labored so hard as part of what makes her special.

Keep in mind, these are young women expected to give birth, but also desperately trying to find out, in a rather adolescent mindset way, what will get Mommy to finally notice me. Pregnancy every year isn't going to do it.

Edited April 22, 2015 by Rhondinella
off topic

[ChicksDigScars]

I've always thought Michael was a mini Smuggar.

 

GASP! Now that's just MEAN!

 

Mikey is CUTE! I agree with the above poster that says that Kynzie looks like the Duggar side, and the boys look like Kellers. Mikey is Anna (and her mom) and Markie is Pa Keller, hands down. 

[GEML]

I'm very much of the opinion that Derick's comment comes from a good place. I think Jill likely does feel at least some shame. We can argue whether that is or isn't reasonable, but shame usually isn't a reasonable emotion. And this isn't one we can put at the feet of her parents, Gothardism, or fundamentalism per se.

Jill chose to distinguish herself as a person by taking up the study of midwifery. She believed in a very specific ideology within even that movement. And in her mind, she failed. Not her body, not "I came away healthy with a healthy baby!" At some level, she likely feels that she failed.

And I think that Derick was only trying to help.

[duggarshow]

It made me irrationally angry when I read that comment about Michelle not being "proud" of her children often. 

 

 

 

In fairness, that's not what Michelle said. She said she avoided using the word proud; she did not say she had never been proud of her children.

[snip]

 

 [snip]

Edited April 22, 2015 by Rhondinella
off topic

[Bean421]

The Iz is making his first appearance at Big Sandy. I know that you don't have to keep newborns locked away, but a conference of that size would have me doling out the hand sanatizer to everyone. Then I'd try to find a plastic bubble for the stroller.

[JenCarroll]

I'm very much of the opinion that Derick's comment comes from a good place. I think Jill likely does feel at least some shame. We can argue whether that is or isn't reasonable, but shame usually isn't a reasonable emotion. And this isn't one we can put at the feet of her parents, Gothardism, or fundamentalism per se.

Jill chose to distinguish herself as a person by taking up the study of midwifery. She believed in a very specific ideology within even that movement. And in her mind, she failed. Not her body, not "I came away healthy with a healthy baby!" At some level, she likely feels that she failed.

And I think that Derick was only trying to help.

I have no doubt he was trying to be helpful. I just think it was a lame effort. If he needed to address Jill's feelings of shame, he still could have said, "Not only is there no shame, but I'm very proud of my wife, etc." But I realize that's probably expecting more wisdom and perspective than this particular guy is likely to demonstrate.

[CarolMK]

I read something last night on Facebook that all of the Duggars, including Jill, Derrick and baby Israel are in Texas for the annual homeschool conference. Considering all Jill has been through, I can't imagine that she's up for this trip now. I guess Derrick must be on family leave from his job now. Josh and Anna seem to go every year, too. Just wondering, what is the point of bringing a newborn baby to an event  like this unless to show him off to the thousands of people who attend?

[Fuzzysox]

The whole family is in Texas at the IBLP family camp according to Pickles and Hairspray FB page.

 

You would think a woman who just had a baby would want to be at home relaxing enjoying her "little man" vs. being on the stink bus touring. But once again once a famewhore always a famewhore. Can't make money sitting at home.

[NJRach]

OMG Jill just got out of the hospital ten days ago and now they are at the ATI conference. I'm thinking of all the uncomfortable post-delivery changes - c-section incision, milk leaking, sleep deprivation, bleeding and mood swings. Why would she want to be on a noisy stink bus or in the middle of huge crowds during this time?

 

[snip]

 

I feel bad for Jill if she feels she has to go along with the dog and pony show, and doesn't even think she can back away from it and take care of herself.

 

As for Derrick's job, I am scratching my head. Wasn't he just off for Izzy's birth and also getting his braces on? Does he even work at Wal-Mart anymore? I think part-time people put in more hours than him.

Edited April 22, 2015 by Rhondinella
off topic

[Saylii]

OMG Jill just got out of the hospital ten days ago and now they are at the ATI conference. I'm thinking of all the uncomfortable post-delivery changes - c-section incision, milk leaking, sleep deprivation, bleeding and mood swings. Why would she want to be on a noisy stink bus or in the middle of huge crowds during this time?

[snip]

I feel bad for Jill if she feels she has to go along with the dog and pony show, and doesn't even think she can back away from it and take care of herself.

As for Derrick's job, I am scratching my head. Wasn't he just off for Izzy's birth and also getting his braces on? Does he even work at Wal-Mart anymore? I think part-time people put in more hours than him.

Is he off paternity leave yet? Fathers are allowed to take the full 12 weeks under FMLA now. My husband took three weeks off work when our daughter was born.

[snip]

Edited April 22, 2015 by Rhondinella
off topic

[BitterApple]

Traveling to a homeschool conference ten days after major surgery is foolish. I wonder if the Duggars aren't fawning over Jill and Baby Iz as much as she wanted and she's desperate for attention. After all, babies are a dime a dozen in that family. The novelty wears off quickly.

[doodlebug]

Yes, making a major public appearance at a fundy conference just 10 days after giving birth is a dumb idea.  However, these folks are known for dumb ideas. I tell all new moms they should plan to do nothing except care for themselves and the baby for the first two weeks; no housework, no cooking, nothing.  If people want to visit, mom gets to decide when and for how long and, if she's tired, she can excuse herself and go to bed.  Everyone who visits has to pay the 'baby tax'.  "Sure you can hold the baby, as soon as your done folding that laundry".  "Of course you can stop by for a visit, what're you bringing for dinner?  We're in the mood for Chinese".

 

Finally read the article in People and, as I suspected, it sounds like the whole thing was a clusterf***.  They claim the baby was definitely headfirst and lying occiput posterior (back of baby's head toward's mom's tailbone because Jill had back labor in the beginning.  However, back labor can happen in a variety of other situations including breech, so I think nobody checked her or, if they did, they didn't realize what position the baby was in.  They even claim the baby was coming down into her pelvis, but then, somehow, the poor thing got his directions mixed up and did a complete somersault in the womb despite the fact that he weighed almost 10 lbs. and her water was broken.  Yeah, sure he did.  People also reported the baby was both transverse and breech (which they misspelled) and then helpfully add that this means he was both sideways and upside down at the same time.  Try to picture that.  I hope they're in touch with Cirque du Soleil, that kid is a contortionist.  Jill was using a childbirth method known as Bradley and seems to have been very rigid in her thinking which is one of the pitfalls of that particular method, IMO.  It tends to attract people who want a set of rules that must always be followed without exception.  Someone like Jill would be a sucker for it.   It makes it hard for me to feel sorry for her 70 hours of labor since it seems that most of it stemmed from her own poorly informed choices and her inability to change course when thing weren't happening the way she'd planned.  In other words, had she had competent prenatal care and been open to more traditional medical thinking, they'd have known the kid was breech long before she ever went into labor and done something about it.

 

[snip] There is a tremendous amount of guilt placed on moms who don't have the 'perfect Bradley birth' which may be the source of Derrick's feeling that there is some sort of shame in having a cesarean.  [snip]

 

***Bradley itself can be a very fine childbirth method when used with some common sense.  It is just awfully attractive to people like Jill who don't have any common sense to spare.

Edited April 22, 2015 by Rhondinella
off topic

[Mrsjumbo]

Not only the discomfort of traveling so soon after a csection, but I was pretty protective of not introducing my babies to germs those first few months of life. Why expose him to all of those strangers?

Looking around online, it seems most sites recommend not letting an infant out around big crowds for 6-8 weeks. The immune system isn't fully developed.

[Fuzzysox]

Traveling to a homeschool conference ten days after major surgery is foolish. I wonder if the Duggars aren't fawning over Jill and Baby Iz as much as she wanted and she's desperate for attention. After all, babies are a dime a dozen in that family. The novelty wears off quickly.

UGH all the things that happen after pregnancy especially the bleeding can't be be very comfortable for her. I wanted to be home near the bathroom as much as possible because of it. I can't imagine being on a bus with all those peeps and no where to really be alone to take care of oneself.

[graefin]

People also reported the baby was both transverse and breech (which they misspelled) and then helpfully add that this means he was both sideways and upside down at the same time. Try to picture that.

I initially thought transverse meant lying on its side, the way people do when they sleep, as opposed to lying horizontally, in which case "transverse breech" would be possible. Does that "side" fetal position not exist? Maybe People was confused also ;)

Edited April 21, 2015 by graefin

[NJRach]

One bus bathroom for two dozen people. Ugh. I hope Jill gets priority.

 

I'm also thinking of Josie walking over the bus sofas and landing on Jill's stomach, or some of the littles crashing into her, MEchelle expecting Jill to be responsible for her buddy team, the screeching howlers waking up Baby Izz.  The horror.

Edited April 21, 2015 by NJRach

[riverblue22]

Yesterday I saw the episode of Josh and Anna moving into their new home.  Jill turned into the general telling everyone what to do.  I hadn't seen her do that before. I'm afraid Derick is going to lose every battle--Derick will need to obey his marching orders.  And that includes his speech--before he talks he'd better know what Jill wants him to say or she will correct him.

[dillpickles]

I see sweet little jillymuffins turning into psycho raging "I'm in pain shut the f**k up" Jill. If she has enough strength in her, she'll probably be screaming at everyone. Or at least, finding it *very* hard to keep sweet.

[3girlsforus]

Yes, making a major public appearance at a fundy conference just 10 days after giving birth is a dumb idea.  However, these folks are known for dumb ideas. I tell all new moms they should plan to do nothing except care for themselves and the baby for the first two weeks; no housework, no cooking, nothing.  If people want to visit, mom gets to decide when and for how long and, if she's tired, she can excuse herself and go to bed.  Everyone who visits has to pay the 'baby tax'.  "Sure you can hold the baby, as soon as your done folding that laundry".  "Of course you can stop by for a visit, what're you bringing for dinner?  We're in the mood for Chinese".

 

Finally read the article in People and, as I suspected, it sounds like the whole thing was a clusterf***.  They claim the baby was definitely headfirst and lying occiput posterior (back of baby's head toward's mom's tailbone because Jill had back labor in the beginning.  However, back labor can happen in a variety of other situations including breech, so I think nobody checked her or, if they did, they didn't realize what position the baby was in.  They even claim the baby was coming down into her pelvis, but then, somehow, the poor thing got his directions mixed up and did a complete somersault in the womb despite the fact that he weighed almost 10 lbs. and her water was broken.  Yeah, sure he did.  People also reported the baby was both transverse and breech (which they misspelled) and then helpfully add that this means he was both sideways and upside down at the same time.  Try to picture that.  I hope they're in touch with Cirque du Soleil, that kid is a contortionist.  Jill was using a childbirth method known as Bradley and seems to have been very rigid in her thinking which is one of the pitfalls of that particular method, IMO.  It tends to attract people who want a set of rules that must always be followed without exception.  Someone like Jill would be a sucker for it.   It makes it hard for me to feel sorry for her 70 hours of labor since it seems that most of it stemmed from her own poorly informed choices and her inability to change course when thing weren't happening the way she'd planned.  In other words, had she had competent prenatal care and been open to more traditional medical thinking, they'd have known the kid was breech long before she ever went into labor and done something about it.

 

[snip] There is a tremendous amount of guilt placed on moms who don't have the 'perfect Bradley birth' which may be the source of Derrick's feeling that there is some sort of shame in having a cesarean.  [snip]

 

***Bradley itself can be a very fine childbirth method when used with some common sense.  It is just awfully attractive to people like Jill who don't have any common sense to spare.

 

I think Bradley is far more dangerous than it is helpful. And that's coming from me...[snip] I can actually see why it appeals to a Duggar though. It gives all the control to the man. I do recognize that Bradley years ago was part of the push to get the husband back in the delivery room. That's good. Telling the woman that her husband will tell her what to do in labor... that's bad. But interestingly, the husband bears no responsibility if there isn't a "perfect Bradley birth'. Its the woman's fault. And its' possible to have a unmedicated birth and healthy baby but still do it "wrong" according to Bradley.  It's a messed up implementation. 

I see sweet little jillymuffins turning into psycho raging "I'm in pain shut the f**k up" Jill. If she has enough strength in her, she'll probably be screaming at everyone. Or at least, finding it *very* hard to keep sweet.

if they get that on film she will rocket to the top spot as my favorite Duggar. :-)

Edited April 22, 2015 by Rhondinella
off topic

[Absolom]

I hope Derick and Jill had the sense to fly to Texas or at least drive in their own vehicle.  No way I'd expose a child to a crowd like that before at least the first round of immunizations.  I'm still hoping Jill and Derick will do the basic ones.

[GEML]

I will go against the grain and say that attending the conference might be helpful to Jill. Yes, to us it sounds like a nightmare and a health issue. But if she had been left behind alone, I think she would have felt isolated and abandoned. This way she will feel part of the family (which she obviously still craves) and everyone at the conference will flock to see her and the new baby, which might be good for her mental health.

[Ljohnson1987]

Good job, Jill. Taking your newborn to Texas. Hope he has his shots.

[3girlsforus]

I hope that is the case GEML. I think it will either be really helpful or make things significantly worse. Hopefully Michele can back away from the spotlight enough to let Jill have this moment. 

 

I am confused about one thing though. I thought when it originally came out that they had signed up for the ATI conference it was in June or July. Is that another one or am I just remembering wrong?

[GEML]

Let's face it, if something goes wrong, it probably goes drastically wrong. But chances are nothing goes wrong and the potential for something to go well is pretty good. Since at this point there isn't anything we can do about it, and I think the chances that she's potentially in trouble, I'm going to hope it's a positive thing for her.

[Ljohnson1987]

That's another thing that Smuggar, Anna, Dill and Benessa will all be at. I think it's called the Alive Festival.

[3girlsforus]

Ahh... I probably got them confused. I remember thinking I didn't quite understand the hoopla about making plans  to be somewhere when he was going to be 3 months old or so. But I didn't know about this one. I think it's craziness but as GEML points out this could be a real boost for Jill's mental state. If so, then it could be a good thing. 

 

The Alive Festival.... is that like the opposite of a Grateful Dead concert??? 

[Ljohnson1987]

No. It's a Christian music festival.

[truelovekiss]

Yes, making a major public appearance at a fundy conference just 10 days after giving birth is a dumb idea. However, these folks are known for dumb ideas. I tell all new moms they should plan to do nothing except care for themselves and the baby for the first two weeks; no housework, no cooking, nothing. If people want to visit, mom gets to decide when and for how long and, if she's tired, she can excuse herself and go to bed. Everyone who visits has to pay the 'baby tax'. "Sure you can hold the baby, as soon as your done folding that laundry". "Of course you can stop by for a visit, what're you bringing for dinner? We're in the mood for Chinese".

Finally read the article in People and, as I suspected, it sounds like the whole thing was a clusterf***. They claim the baby was definitely headfirst and lying occiput posterior (back of baby's head toward's mom's tailbone because Jill had back labor in the beginning. However, back labor can happen in a variety of other situations including breech, so I think nobody checked her or, if they did, they didn't realize what position the baby was in. They even claim the baby was coming down into her pelvis, but then, somehow, the poor thing got his directions mixed up and did a complete somersault in the womb despite the fact that he weighed almost 10 lbs. and her water was broken. Yeah, sure he did. People also reported the baby was both transverse and breech (which they misspelled) and then helpfully add that this means he was both sideways and upside down at the same time. Try to picture that. I hope they're in touch with Cirque du Soleil, that kid is a contortionist. Jill was using a childbirth method known as Bradley and seems to have been very rigid in her thinking which is one of the pitfalls of that particular method, IMO. It tends to attract people who want a set of rules that must always be followed without exception. Someone like Jill would be a sucker for it. It makes it hard for me to feel sorry for her 70 hours of labor since it seems that most of it stemmed from her own poorly informed choices and her inability to change course when thing weren't happening the way she'd planned. In other words, had she had competent prenatal care and been open to more traditional medical thinking, they'd have known the kid was breech long before she ever went into labor and done something about it.

There is a tremendous amount of guilt placed on moms who don't have the 'perfect Bradley birth' which may be the source of Derrick's feeling that there is some sort of shame in having a cesarean. [snip]

***Bradley itself can be a very fine childbirth method when used with some common sense. It is just awfully attractive to people like Jill who don't have any common sense to spare.

[snip]

I really do hope all women can have a positive, happy experience when they have their babies. It's such a special, precious time and they deserve to be able to look back on it fondly. But Jill's insistence on getting what she wants to the detriment of her son is selfish. She comes across as a spoiled millennial that thinks that she knows better than doctors, nurses and probably other midwives. She certainly inherited her father's arrogance and blind belief that her way is best.

Edited April 22, 2015 by Rhondinella
off topic

[3 is enough]

Just when you think they couldn't do anything MORE  stupid...

 

I do think the conference is one of the highlights of their year.  So maybe missing it would make Jill very upset. And she does not seem to be putting the baby first.  I do hope they had the sense to fly.

 

Good job, Jill. Taking your newborn to Texas. Hope he has his shots.

They don't get their first shots until they are 2 months old.

 

Curious if Alyssa Bates Webster is there.  I would guess not.  She seems to have more common sense than Jill.

Edited April 21, 2015 by 3 is enough