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Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!


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On 9/25/2023 at 11:11 PM, CalicoKitty said:

We don't know how philanthropic they are.  A lot of people, myself included, donate without wanting or expecting any publicity.  And it is no one else's business if/how much anyone donates.  That is a private decision that everyone has the freedom to decide for themself.

Sure, but I was responding to the comment about Jill possibly donating proceeds from the book. It's no one's business, but it makes no sense to me to assume that she would when she has zero history of doing so, quite the opposite considering Dillard Family Ministries.

On 9/25/2023 at 6:59 PM, satrunrose said:

I agree with this completely. I don't see healing/money as a binary either, though. Probably I'm biased (helping profession) but it's very possible to do something because you see it as important (recruiting for Gothard was the official motivation for the series, Jill and Jinger being candid about their childhoods make those cults look less appealing) and because you like getting paid. If Renee Rod runs off with some cute, blue-haired girl at Walmart and manages to wrangle a book deal, I'm going to be happy that she is getting something out of her screwed up childhood, not shake my head at her for monetizing her misery.

I'm not morally opposed to them making money (that doesn't come from harassing and exploiting people in developing countries, that is). It's more the assumption that Jill is all about the truth telling and the money is just a side effect.

On 9/26/2023 at 2:51 AM, quarks said:

I'm not sure I can agree with this. Memoirs from Hollywood stars and the vast majority of contemporary politicians and/or people hoping to make the talk show circuit, sure. 

Others, maybe not.

I'm not at all sure we can classify, say, The Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglass, or Elie Weisel's Night, or Richard Wright's Black Boy, or even, on a more cheery note, Born Free, as self-promotion tools: the point of all of these was to draw attention to specific situations, not to specific authors. Other memoirs were written in hopes of recording specific cultures perceived as lost or dying, or major historical events, or major historical personages - not so much the authors themselves. And of course other memoirs have been published anonymously.

Can Jill's book be compared to any of these? Probably not - certainly not Night.  And I do think self-promotion - or at least, self-defense - was one of her goals here. I just don't think it was her only goal, or even her main one. She seems at least somewhat interested in drawing attention to the issues with reality TV shows (even if she's frustratingly vague on many filming details), which kinda sorta puts her closer to some of the memoirs I mentioned, and may have been what she told herself she was doing. She seems equally motivated in getting some sort of revenge for the In Touch story, something she describes as worse than the original molestation, even while admitting that one of its effects was to give her nightmares of the original molestation. Not nightmares of In Touch, but the molestation. 

And her ghostwriter wanted to present her as the protagonist of a story of good and evil, with Jill and Derick as the good heroes (Derick is even frequently described as a good man), with JB, surprisingly, as the main villain of the piece (surprisingly because this is a story that includes Josh Duggar), and with various side characters, including the supporting character with the mysterious motivations, Michelle, who shows up to the rescue at the last minute, just like a movie.

Jill's had a lifetime of having her life edited for entertainment purposes, so I'm not sure how much she even noticed how well the ghostwriter shaped her memoir into this narrative. But it did leave me noticing just how much was left unexplored/unexamined here - notably, everything that didn't fit into that narrative, like most of the missionary stuff and the full story of Derick's tweets.

It's all still self-promotion, even if it's for a bigger purpose like Douglass and Weisel (and my god, it it painful to see those names anywhere near Jill's). It's not a bad thing on it's own. I just object to the saintly, altruistic Jill narrative.

I agree with your points about the book generally, from all the excerpts I've read. Revenge against In Touch and the government officials who released the reports is definitely a factor. I think the things left unexplored have to be deliberate....they're trying to appeal to a more secular audience, and that's not going to fly if they get into the nitty gritty of no-help missionary work and their entrenched bigotry.

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Similar to what @lascuba(?) said...

Jill should be applauded for her bravery - full stop.

However I don't think criticizing her should be off limits. I mean she just posted a reel that's basically a full commercial for swimming lessons, featuring her, her (faceless) kids and Derick. So her kids are earning their swimming lessons. And yes, swimming lessons are great, that's why parents all over work hard earning money to pay for their kids to learn. Jill should shill her little heart away, but not for kid products using her kids if she feels she was exploited as a kid.

Jill and Jinger's eyes have been partially opened, they bravely spoke out against their childhoods, but they are still very much like Jessa, Joy and Jana. I can applaud Jill and Jinger, I can hope for the best for them both, but I can also call them out on their shit.

 

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34 minutes ago, Gemma Violet said:

Video from the NYC book promotion:

(Side note: Derick knows Star Trek.)

 

And we got a Frank Sun cameo!  It's nice to know they've kept in touch. He seems so nice. I imagine all those years of filming made the camera guys seem like family.

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Just now, katycat74 said:

And we got a Frank Sun cameo!  It's nice to know they've kept in touch. He seems so nice. I imagine all those years of filming made the camera guys seem like family.

I just started to post about meeting up with Frank. Probably would have been an interesting conversation. 

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Interesting tidbit from an interview with the LA Times. 

Do you have thoughts about how the industry can operate more ethically, particularly when it comes to children? Should kids really even be on TV?

Duggar: Having grown up on reality TV, I feel like kids should have more protections in place. I don't know exactly what that would look like. But I do know that it's a constant struggle for parents our age, even just trying to figure out what degree to involve your kids on social media. The problem can grow out of hand very quickly when you rely on your children for the show to continue and without them there is no content.

Dillard: There's [nothing] to make sure kids are protected as far as their education goes. If a family sees an opportunity to make money, they can justify taking away their kids' time [in school] because, well, they don't need education, they can just have this money to support them. Jill can attest to this, but from what we can tell, none of her siblings really had much education past the seventh grade. A lot of that was due to the show taking over. It was like, “Well, if the show requires most of the filming hours during the weekday, then school is not really that important.

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Multiple different family members have said they filmed at most about three days a week for a couple hours a day - when the were filming, which was not year round. And other times they showed up for events.

Is Derick saying from Joe (who was 13 when the show started) on up had a stellar education prior to the show? And the last bunch of kids, from Jackson to Josie were all under 10 years old when the show ended, so what's the excuse for them?

Derick never ceases to amaze me in the way he can twist facts to fit his narrative.

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5 hours ago, Salacious Kitty said:

Interesting tidbit from an interview with the LA Times. 

 

 

That doesn't surprise me they showed one of the boys I think James who was twelve or thirteen doing third grade math and another episode show their educational boxes in the attic. Not to mention teaching bankruptcy to young kids. Seventh grade is generous. But in the Duggar case I'm not sure if they would have been educated any better without the show. JB and Michelle have not ever placed any importance on education and it shows. 

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9 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Multiple different family members have said they filmed at most about three days a week for a couple hours a day - when the were filming, which was not year round. And other times they showed up for events.

Is Derick saying from Joe (who was 13 when the show started) on up had a stellar education prior to the show? And the last bunch of kids, from Jackson to Josie were all under 10 years old when the show ended, so what's the excuse for them?

Derick never ceases to amaze me in the way he can twist facts to fit his narrative.

It is rather convenient that Derick frames his response like the Duggar kids were going to a regular in-person school and not being homeschooled.  

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2 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

It is rather convenient that Derick frames his response like the Duggar kids were going to a regular in-person school and not being homeschooled.  

Or the fact 19 Kids only filmed for 7 years. During that time most of the kids were already high school age or under 10. So he's basically calling the Howlers on down idiots, but he doesn't explain what interfered with the Lost Girls education seeing as they were barely filmed past 2015, so most of their schooling has been camera free. Derick already told us Jill is more educated than most, so shouldn't the Lost Girls have the same 'wonderful' education Jill and the older ones had?

It couldn't be that ALL Duggar kids are poorly educated and camera have nothing to do with it. 🤔

Edited by GeeGolly
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31 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

It couldn't be the ALL Duggar kids are poorly educated and camera have nothing to do with it. 🤔

I think the duggar offspring would possibly be less educated without the show, since that gave them access to multiple laptops and whatever program for most of the kids. Without that they would be the Rod kids passing down ancient school books to sort for themselves. Anyone think Meech, Bin, Tabby Paine, Jrod can teach anything beyond the basics, even if they tried?

The old jurisdiction charts showed very little "school" time. Bible time, 2 hrs of wisdom booklet time, checklist/jurisdiction time. School things listed at the end of the list included music practice, typing practice, bible copy.

This was way back when the younger girls took afternoon naps.

Jackson and Johannah were shown with a single laptop doing basic algebra when Jackson was probably 16. My oldest grand did that course last year at age 11.

JB wanted the kids uneducated and dependent on the headship and always to work only toward JB's desire to make money.

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1 hour ago, crazy8s said:

I think the duggar offspring would possibly be less educated without the show, since that gave them access to multiple laptops and whatever program for most of the kids. Without that they would be the Rod kids passing down ancient school books to sort for themselves. Anyone think Meech, Bin, Tabby Paine, Jrod can teach anything beyond the basics, even if they tried?

The old jurisdiction charts showed very little "school" time. Bible time, 2 hrs of wisdom booklet time, checklist/jurisdiction time. School things listed at the end of the list included music practice, typing practice, bible copy.

This was way back when the younger girls took afternoon naps.

Jackson and Johannah were shown with a single laptop doing basic algebra when Jackson was probably 16. My oldest grand did that course last year at age 11.

JB wanted the kids uneducated and dependent on the headship and always to work only toward JB's desire to make money.

Yikes, great point. I never thought of it that way.

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On 9/28/2023 at 11:57 PM, GeeGolly said:

Multiple different family members have said they filmed at most about three days a week for a couple hours a day - when the were filming, which was not year round. And other times they showed up for events.

I don't think I trust the word of multiple different family members any more than I trust Derrick's.  I could see JB &M telling the kids what to say in order to make it seem like filming the show was not consuming a lot of their time.  Just like Jill and Jessa were coached before the Megyn Kelly interview.

I do agree, though, that Derrick is talking out of his a** when he says that filming the show was at the heart of the poor education all the Duggar kids received.

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Whatever the reason, it's clear that Boobchelle never valued education. That was made clear on the show when at the show's peak, around the time of Jill and Jessa's weddings, teenaged James was filmed using multiplication flash cards with buddy Jill. Something he should have mastered before he was 10. Where was the oversight?

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3 hours ago, Salacious Kitty said:

Whatever the reason, it's clear that Boobchelle never valued education. That was made clear on the show when at the show's peak, around the time of Jill and Jessa's weddings, teenaged James was filmed using multiplication flash cards with buddy Jill. Something he should have mastered before he was 10. Where was the oversight?

Or he has needed extra remedial help and a professional to help him find his method of learning.  Both ignored by his parents and the Wisdom Book education system.  I think education is for show only in this family.  Uneducated children are easier to control.

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40 minutes ago, Gemma Violet said:

I respectfully disagree.  Just because a person is uneducated does not make them a stupid person and Derick did not say or imply anyone was stupid.  He was talking about education.  They may be sadly ignorant of certain facts, but that's not really being stupid--they simply were not exposed to a good education.  My grandmother had a third-grade education and she was far from stupid.

You're absolutely right.

It is kind of ironic Derick framed JB&M's thought process as prioritizing the show over education because the kids "can just have this money to support them", when Jill just wrote a book sharing how JB wasn't paying anyone.

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45 minutes ago, satrunrose said:

I think it was all JBs plan. In his idea world, he was going to have a compound full of sons and sons-in-law doing various unskilled and semi-skilled labouring jobs to keep the JB empire rolling while the women pumped out baby after baby, joyfully bringing them along to be featured on A Thousand Grand-Kids and Counting, season 25. JB our holy patriarch, would be benevolently controlling the purse strings for everybody. 

I think JB legitimately did see the money as supporting everybody, without ever wanting them to control a dime of that money independently.

Unfortunately for JB he would have to be Mick Jagger for that plan to work. The average person spends well over a million dollars in a lifetime. He would need much more than single digit millions to support his growing clan. As it is now, depending on how many kidults are still in the fold, JB will likely run out of money, sooner rather than later.

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1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

As it is now, depending on how many kidults are still in the fold, JB will likely run out of money, sooner rather than later.

Jill and Jinger are being very wise not to depend on the future inheritance. Partly because JimBob isn't exactly 90 and teetering on the brink but mainly because as you say I would wonder how much money that would actually amount to in the fullness of time.  He may be a shrewd investor sitting on millions - maybe - but even so split 19 ways it still isn't going to amount to an inheritance that would keep any of them on easy street.   

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I've  just seen Derick described as a slightly nicer version of JB and I think  it really pointed out my problems with the  current Jill and Derick dynamic . How much of this is Jill driving it  and how much of it  is Derick trying to get one over JB , knowing that Free Jinger  Jill is a thing and would get him support? The guy went to law school just to one up his wife's father and most of his beef seems to be centered around money, not religious teachings.  He's on the book cover , sitting in interviews of what's supposed to be Jill's story. I just  hope Jill isn't exchanging one  personal cult leader for another one. 

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Regarding the inheritance, I hope more of the kids realize this is an empty threat.  JB is far from dying and he has made it clear the no one is seeing a dime until he and Michelle are both gone.  That's a lot of years and a lot of money down the road particularly if one of them needs a lot of care at some point in the future.  I know from my maternal grandmother that long term care is a huge cost.  

I do hope that down the road, Jill will help with advocacy much like Paul Peterson has done.  I know he has been trying to get laws in place to protect children on reality shows, but I doubt that has gotten very far.  I do agree though, that Derick is full of it when he claims that the Duggar kids education would have been better without the show.  The wisdom books were their education and those are abysmal.  Even Kelly Bates wouldn't use them for education.  

I will say that I am not sure what to believe about filming.  Jill says in the book that school did get pushed to the side for filming.  She also makes it clear the JB farmed the kids out all over the place and they had more film crews than just TLC coming to the house.  Jill says that one South Korean crew kept them working from early in the morning till almost midnight while they were there.  I suspect that the $8M JB made from TLC may have only been part of what he made off the kids' labor.  It's no wonder he had such a huge freak out when Jill and Derick finally pushed back.  He was seeing the possibility of his income and ego boost drying up.

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Jill and Jinger are being very wise not to depend on the future inheritance. Partly because JimBob isn't exactly 90 and teetering on the brink but mainly because as you say I would wonder how much money that would actually amount to in the fullness of time.  He may be a shrewd investor sitting on millions - maybe - but even so split 19 ways it still isn't going to amount to an inheritance that would keep any of them on easy street. 

Plus, if MEEEchelle dies at any time before JimBob, he's fathering as many more kids as he can. If God smites her dead tomorrow, JimBob has plenty of time to produce more spawn. They won't be fighting over 1/91th of an inheritance, more like 1/40th. 

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25 minutes ago, sixlets said:

JB&M are in their late 50s.  As each year passes, there are more opportunities for JB to spend the money that is supposedly being set aside for when they're gone.  It also gives the kids more opportunities to break free and tell their own stories.  Come out against Gothard/IBLP/JB, and JB will come up with a reason to spend the money.  Jinger took a different tact & made her story more about Gothard.  Jill said screw it & made her story more about her parents.  Regardless of how you feel about Jill, it's pretty obvious this is her giant FU moment to JB&M, and they deserve everything they have coming.   

I felt Meech was let off too easily. Jill laid the blame for everything squarely on JB's shoulders. 

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7 minutes ago, Salacious Kitty said:

I felt Meech was let off too easily. Jill laid the blame for everything squarely on JB's shoulders. 

Because he is the headship.  That’s supposedly part of the burden of being a leader; you reap the benefits and get credit for when things go well, but are responsible for consequences your decisions as leader caused.  That’s theoretically how it’s supposed to work.  Michelle was JB’s helpmeet, a supportive person to help JB accomplish his goals and implement his plans for the family.  

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1 minute ago, MaryAnneSpier said:

Because he is the headship.  That’s supposedly part of the burden of being a leader; you reap the benefits and get credit for when things go well, but are responsible for consequences your decisions as leader caused.  That’s theoretically how it’s supposed to work.  Michelle was JB’s helpmeet, a supportive person to help JB accomplish his goals and implement his plans for the family.  

You are absolutely correct. But we know that Michelle has more power in that household than the regular fundie helpmeet ( not named Jill Rodrigues).

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8 hours ago, Salacious Kitty said:

You are absolutely correct. But we know that Michelle has more power in that household than the regular fundie helpmeet ( not named Jill Rodrigues).

Yeah, I wish Jill and really all the siblings would see that Michelle's just as responsible as JB. She was happy to use her daughters to do all the stuff she should have been doing. She was part of the Megyn interview denying downplaying what Josh did while insisting they did everything correct. She is just as terrible as JB.

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I wouldn't go as far as saying Jinger traded cults. It looks to me Jinger's LA Grace church community believes very much the same thing as the Dillard's AR Cross church community. I also believe members of both churches are free to cherry pick beliefs much like the Catholic community.

I think the sisters are likely in the same place. They both took baby steps away from their family culture and Gothard indoctrination. Their motivations were different which shows in their books. Jinger said from the beginning her book wasn't a tell-all and Jill's is. It seems to me Jinger's book reflects a spiritual journey and Jill's exposes unhealthy family dynamics and drama. The books were written for two different audiences - Jinger's, for the spiritually confused and Jill's, for Duggar haters.

I think both Jill and Jinger have a long way to go to 'break free' from all they went through. I would argue Jill is not ahead of Jinger in this game and neither Derick nor Jeremy are heroes.

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IMO, both Jeremy and Derick likely treat their wives well. To me the difference is Jill and more so Derick try very hard to control the narrative. They very much care what is written about them and try to combat that. The Vuolos, who likely read the same stuff, don't come back with explanations to defend themselves.

I'm certain Jeremy would never be believed if he explained the word meek in a different context than a negative one. And I, for one, will not give Derick the benefit of the doubt after he has publicly told many conflicting versions of the same story.

But again, neither Jill or Jinger have given any indication they are less than happy in their marriages.

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3 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I wouldn't go as far as saying Jinger traded cults. It looks to me Jinger's LA Grace church community believes very much the same thing as the Dillard's AR Cross church community. I also believe members of both churches are free to cherry pick beliefs much like the Catholic community.

I think the sisters are likely in the same place. They both took baby steps away from their family culture and Gothard indoctrination. Their motivations were different which shows in their books. Jinger said from the beginning her book wasn't a tell-all and Jill's is. It seems to me Jinger's book reflects a spiritual journey and Jill's exposes unhealthy family dynamics and drama. The books were written for two different audiences - Jinger's, for the spiritually confused and Jill's, for Duggar haters.

I think both Jill and Jinger have a long way to go to 'break free' from all they went through. I would argue Jill is not ahead of Jinger in this game and neither Derick nor Jeremy are heroes.

Neither are heroes, certainly, but you should look deeper into the rot that is Mcarthur. 🤷‍♀️

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