Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!

[Hpmec]

Jill was so determined to have a home birth/vaginal delivery come hell or high water that she foolishly endangered the baby. I hope she has a new appreciation for the doctors and nurses who made the good outcome a reality and that she gets care from qualified medical professionals throughout her next pregnancy. Her children deserve no less.

Edited April 15, 2015 by Hpmec

[Wellfleet]

Lately, Jill seems irritated with Derick in all their videos. He says something, she interjects a correction, and then they both look uncomfortable. In this video, he says they have started to "get back some sleep" and she says "well, not really. He is walking us up at night." He looks at her like he doesn't know what to say and then there's a pause and then Jill continues with the point that Derick was originally making. They really are super awkward together.

 

Hope Jill's crankiness is just normal and justified post-surgical discomfort, post-partum depression etc. If not, welcome to the rest of your life, Derick. Meet Bitchy Jill.

Edited April 15, 2015 by Wellfleet

[Matryoshka]

Fact. Scott Fedosky is the doctor, and his license was revoked sometime in 2012, late in the year, IIRC. His wife was the doula "Miss Theresa" who oversaw Anna's first two births, as well as led JB/Mechelle's "cervix softening" Bradely class. I think she stopped practicing once he lost his license; her "office" was housed in his own offices. 

Ahh, thanks for the explanation.

[jilliannatalia]

I have a friend whose child was born with meconium issues. The immediate health crisis has passed and the child appears to be a normal eighteen-month-old, but the neonatal specialist told the parents that learning disabilities or worse sometimes can result from the conditions under which the child was born. Learning disabilities, slow learning, intellectual disability, or cerebral palsy can result from hypoxia from any number of causes in labor.  Many learning disabilities are not evident until a child begins elementary school.  I don't wish that sort of thing on Jill and Derick's child or on anyone's child for that matter, nor do I wish to be a doomsday predictor. i'm merely suggesting that just because the baby has healthy vital signs now is no guarantee that no sort of damage was done by the lengthy labor, meconium, and whatever else may have gone awry in little Israel's  delivery.

[Micks Picks]

Let us hope that none of those these occur.  Especially nothing that would be picked up if he was in school, because if Jill has her way, he never will be.

[Saylii]

I bet the People article is counting the pre-labor Braxton Hicks contractions that Jill said she had at lunch on Saturday. They probably just got stronger throughout the night so she couldn't pinpoint exactly when they started, especially if her water didn't break traditionally. Counting Saturday, Sunday, and Monday gets her to 72 hours.

At my hospital, once you had meconium staining you were strongly recommended not to birth vaginally. They wanted to be able to keep the baby tucked until they got it over to the neonatologist. I was also strep B positive, but they were cool with me going vaginally until they saw meconium.

I kind of wonder if the hospital didn't offer Pitocin, but instead started pushing C-section hard the minute she walked through the door. Being strep B positive, seeing meconium, knowing it could be a big baby... I wonder if that's a big reason why the article makes it seem like there was little medical intervention at the hospital until the C-section. I could see Jill hesitating a bit on having a C-section as her only choice until she knew it wasn't happening like she wanted.

[cmr2014]

 

IMHO, of course, but something's going on. Interesting that Jilly Muffin and derickdillard would bring out the "we're open to adoption" three days after their son was born when those of us who have heard Gothard's BS take on it previously know this is a lie. This makes me wonder if they have already been told that there will not be the sheer numbers of "precious bundles" she had in mind due to complications or other issues...

 

I kind of wonder if all of the talk about adoption isn't some kind of coded message to other fundies. Maybe they are trying to signal that they are moving away from Gothard (in baby steps) to encourage other fundie families to allow their kids to "court" the Duggar kids.

[GEML]

My sister had meconium, and her lungs were weak as a very young child, but nothing statistically out of the ordinary, and she was smart as a whip. She took great pains to remind us that she had the highest (by one point) IQ of the three of us. I wouldn't borrow trouble just yet.

[Wellfleet]

From my understanding, she has behaved childishly and stubbornly throughout her delivery. For a "midwife" that knows so much about natural childbirth, she sure doesn't know when she should listen to the doctor. If I thought Jill was going to have a career, I would say this would have negatively impacted it. She clearly isn't very good with making judgement calls that include deviating from the plan.

 

Absolutely. Just more evidence that the Duggars cannot handle options, multiple choice or gray areas. Things have to be Yes or No, Up or Down, Black or White for them. They do fine, when everything goes well, and according to plan. The minute a wrench is thrown into the works, they're lost. And in Jill's case, there seemed to be a lot of denial that anything was amiss.

[jilliannatalia]

I'm not meaning to borrow trouble. I'm merely suggesting that we cannot know for certain that the insistence on making the birth a natural experience is not going to end up as having been a detriment to the baby. Of course not everyone born with meconium issues or even brief hypoxia goes on to have developmental issues, and we certainly hope the Dillard child is one of the many success stories.  Chances are that everything is fine, but I continue to believe it was foolish of Jill to have placed the beauty and tranquility of a natural and non-medically-assisted birth ahead of common sense in terms of the well-being of the child. 

[cereality]

She and Derick look more and more uncomfortable with each other. I realize she labored for days, ended up on iv antibiotics, had a c section, a long hospital stay, and probably is in pain after the surgery, not to mention breastfeeding pain and general sleep deprivation. So I'm not thinking they need to be acting lovey dovey or even be physically touching bc she just may not be able to right now. BUT that should have no effect on conversation -- contradicting each other, awkward pauses where Derick then tries to "fix" what he was saying, and Jill jumps in and fixes it for him. It was happening before Iz as well and was really obvious in that People video.

[TomServo]

I'm confused about the group b strep thing and how her treatment worked. Group b strep antibiotics must be administered via IV during labor. She had a lay midwife who does not have the authority to prescribe antibiotics. CNMs do but lay midwives do not. So if she started laboring at home, for 20 hours, how did she get treatment? After all it wasn't until the meconium that they transferred so it sounds like if everything with the labor had gone great and she had him at home she would not have had group b strep treatment. 

 

This is one of those things that varies by state.  Some states do not allow CPMs to administer IVs, but other states do have IV administration as part of midwife training and will allow CPMs to administer IV antibiotics.

One of my births was a home birth attended by a very experienced midwife and an apprentice midwife.  There was oxygen on hand as well as vials of pitocin (not for augmenting labor, mind you; they have it on hand for use in post-delivery complications), Methergine, and other emergency supplies the complete list of which I've since forgotten.

Count me in the crowd of skeptics about the 70-hour figure since they went to the hospital.  Hospitals put you on the clock as soon as your membranes rupture.  The only people I know who got to go past 24 hours with ruptured membranes either lied to the hospital about when their water broke OR they were birthing at home and did not have any other complicating factors and were avoiding internal checks and other things that could introduce germs into the environment.  If that 50-hours-at-the-hospital is accurate, then the only thing that makes any sense to me is that maybe they let her go longer because she was already on antibiotics.  But it seems more likely that she was having contractions for a period of time before her water broke and that has been included in the total and the details have been fudged or confused in the rush to publish.

[bk10]

What is meconium? is that when the baby poops while still inside the mother? I'm not a mother, but I was present during the birth of a couple of my nephews. The first one took a while to come out and he did poop which caused them to start prepping my sister for a c-section, but right before they went in, she started to push and he came out soon after. (I was 15 and really curious so she let me stay in the room with her husband for the birth. Great form of birth control by the way! I never new giving birth too so long or that vaginas really do open up that widely.) Anyway, I do remember the panic for my sister and I imagine if Jill showed up to the hospital knowing that she had meconium, they would have moved with the same sense of urgency for her. Maybe different hospitals work differently? Or maybe she really believed in being all natural all the way through? My sister is a christian and a medical doctor and she took an epidural for all three. She believed that God gave (wo)men the knowledge to come up with ways to ease our sufferings and who is she to deny the extra help. 

 

I don't plan on having babies for another 2 or so years, and I feel bad having an opinion on something that I've never experienced, but I hope that for her sake she didn't put her baby at risk out of pure stubbornness and the inability to think critically. 

[Gweilo]

I don't have kids yet, but my future birth plan will be: arrive at birthing venue pregnant.  Get baby out of me.  Leave not pregnant.

 

I just want to shake Jill by the shoulders and say "God won't love you more for every baby that you have!  His love is endless and unconditional!  That's the cool thing about him!  If he can love the prostitutes and the tax collectors, he's also going to love the women with fewer children than fingers!  That's why he's divine, and us stupid mortals are not!"

 

For people who are so religious, they really don't understand their own religion. 

[Zahdii]

I'm betting that Jill exaggerated how long her labor took because a lot of new moms do that.  Sometimes they're not even aware of it.  I had a friend who swore up and down she labored for 18 hours and pushed for two, even though her husband insisted that he was there when she first got a funny look on her face and said, "I think I just had a real contraction, that one actually hurt a little bit."  He produced their chart they made up to time the contractions.  From the time of the first contraction to delivery was about 10 hours.  He also reminded her that the nurses were pleased with her only having to push for half an hour before the baby was delivered.  She finally had to admit that he was right, but her doctor just laughed and said that no doubt the whole thing felt like 18 hours, so that's why she was so sure her labor actually was that long.

 

So if that's the case, that Jill just felt like her labor was incredibly long (and I bet she's also counting Braxton Hicks contractions, too), Jill might really believe her labor was longer than it really was.  As for the meconium, Jill might have subconsciously wanted to go to the hospital and tricked herself into thinking she might have seen some staining.  As for refusing pain meds, Jill might be thinking that she wasn't given IV pain meds, but she might have been given an epidural "just in case" a C-section was needed, so she still might have had pharmacological assistance in managing pain.  See how that works?  The Duggars are famous for twisting facts and circumstances to fit their story or agenda, same thing with their Baby Story. 

 

On top of that, once People got hold of the story they probably couldn't resist padding the times even further and playing up everything they were told because it makes a better story for them - gotta sell those magazines.  Derrick's unlikely to contest Jill's version of events, and the hospital isn't allowed to explain why they seemingly allowed Jill to take a problematic labor and let it go on for so long.

 

I've no doubt things took a long time, and the Dullards were stressed and frightened, but I'm not going to lose any sleep over it because things have seemed to worked out in the end.

Edited April 15, 2015 by Zahdii

[floridamom]

I haven't read the posts here yet on any video or interview statements that Jill has made so far. Here's my comment on what I viewed/read so far...Jill stated that when it's YOUR OWN BABY, it's quite different than a sibling or family member relationship to bond with and take care of. ...Now, I hope she asks herself the logical follow up question...how is it that her own mother could have separated herself from her own infants at 6 months or less to the "next sister/mom in line"? I would imagine that Jill might find that quite "cold"of her own mother...Now, Jill, when baby Dilly is about 6 months old, pass him on to someone else to take care of....like your mom.

[doodlebug]

I call bullshit. No way they would let her go that long after her water had already broken

What choice did they have?  Performing surgery on someone against their will is assault and Jill could press charges.  It has happened.  Jill is mentally competent, the doctors and nurses had no choice.  I feel for them and hope they are treated sympathetically when it airs; it is tremendously frustrating to deal with people who come to the hospital but then tie everyone's hands with their unrealistic notions.  The only way to perform surgery on an unwilling patient is with a court order which is extremely difficult to get here in the Midwest.  In conservative rural Arkansas, good luck finding a judge who'd order it.

 

I work in a Birthing Center known for is family centered, hands off care.  We are located inside a full service hospital.  We often get homebirthers who come in after days at home.  Jill's story rings very true to me.  Many homebirthers really have no idea what they are doing and yet, they insist on micromanaging their care and refuse the advice of professionals because they know better.  If I had a nickel for every one that told me 'I know my body'.... This only confirms to me that Jill's midwifery training is piss poor and the 'midwives' who cared for her are too busy pretending that everything always works out in the end to provide actual support and sound medical advice to their clients.

 

Most homebirthers are also pretty difficult to care for, often rude and dismissive; yet demanding.  The last one who passed through our doors had a story similar to Jill's and only consented to a cesarean after 9 hours of pushing without progress.  Along the way, she insisted on a new labor nurse when one displeased her, required second and third opinions when physicians recommended Pitocin and antibiotics and ultimately 'fired' the doc who first recommended she needed a C/S while she was pushing and the staff had to get on the phone and find another doc willing to take over in the middle of the night.  None of the docs knew her, the first one was on call, he didn't have any choice.  Then, on her way out the door, she called the hospital ombudsman with a list of complaints and demanded various individuals be disciplined for various slights.  The guy who first recommended a cesarean; she wanted him fired immediately.  You've got no idea how ridiculous people can be.

[Dawn16]

Although there's plenty about the Duggars that I don't like, I feel sorry for Jill and understand her reluctance to accept that her birth was not going the way she imagined.  When I had my children, I was also determined to avoid pain meds, Pitocin (because it makes contractions less bearable and more stressful for baby and mom), and especially a C-section.  I delivered with a cnm at a hospital but had friends who used a midwife birthing center.  I had read all about doctors pressuring women unnecessarily because they didn't understand the natural birth process.  So I sympathize with her, as a young first-time mom, being forced to accept that her situation was the rare case that required intervention.  I'm not sure what was meant by 70 hours of labor, but labors can be very different.  In two of my three pregnancies, I spent several days to a week in "early labor," with mild contractions that came and went and took me to 5 cm before "real" labor kicked in.  I went to the hospital the first time and was advised to go home because hospitals don't allow you to labor along slowly like that.   In both cases, I finally naturally delivered 9+ lb healthy babies at 13 days after my "due date."  In the second case, I was told at the last minute that I had months earlier tested positive for group-B strep and an IV was started, but I delivered too quickly.  They watched the baby closely but she did not develop symptoms, thankfully. 

 

I think we need more confirmed info before we assume she was reckless, but even if she was, I empathize with her struggle to let go of her ideas about natural birthing.  Merely going past a "due date" (which is based on the fallacy that all women have 28-day cycles and all babies need the exact same amt of time), having a big baby and small mom (I know several women who were under 120 lb before pregnancy and had 9-10 lb babies), and having a slow labor were not automatic reasons to seek hospital intervention.  Midwives also believing in turning babies who are not positioned properly and waiting to see if they turn on their own.  How fast you must deliver after water breaks and how to deal with meconium in the fluid are also debated at least among natural-labor-advocate midwives.  In Jill's case, she may also have believed that a woman who can't deliver the way she thinks God intended has failed. 

 

I hesitate to say this in this forum, but I have to wonder if God wasn't trying to teach her something about letting go of what she has been taught to believe.

[ChicksDigScars]

I hesitate to say this in this forum, but I have to wonder if God wasn't trying to teach her something about letting go of what she has been taught to believe.

 

You almost have to root for that being the case when it comes  to Duggar girls. They've been birthed by a freak of nature who had 17 (successful) pregnancies and who ALWAYS has to compare her children's life experiences to her own. All these girls need an "ah-ha" moment (including Anna). As mentioned above, I hope Jill's "ah-ha" moment also kicks in when Izzy is around six months and Mullet starts waxing poetic about how she cut off her babies at that age so she could concentrate on the next one.  Here's hoping the thought horrifies Jill. 

 

But if 70 hours of labor, IV's, surgery and a baby the size of a three month old wasn't a wake up call for her, she's hopelessly drunk on the Kool Aid.

 

 

 

So I'm really glad Derrick is stepping up.

 

I have a much easier time seeing Derick step up and take over diaper duty than say, Josh, who thinks labor and delivery are time for Daddy to sit in a chair and commandeer the remote control. 

 

Another thought is that this entire situation could have scared the beejesus out of Derick Dillard. To the point that he says, "No. I'm not watching you go through that again any time soon. Let's wait." But, I've pinned my hopes on Derick before, and seen them squished by a ten ton anvil named "DUGGAR."  Maybe Cathy can bend his ear a little. I wonder how much time she spent biting her tongue during this 70 hour clusterfuck. 

Edited April 15, 2015 by ChicksDigScars

[jmt111]

I agree Dawn116. Plus you have to factor that giving birth is this clan's only claim to fame.

[Zahdii]

I hesitate to say this in this forum, but I have to wonder if God wasn't trying to teach her something about letting go of what she has been taught to believe.

 

The thing is, Jill has been raised by parents who seem to pick and choose what to follow from the Bible, and they seem to listen more to Gothard than anyone or anything else.  I get the impression that they think of Gothard as the latest, best, voice of God out there.

 

And Gothard teaches that the husband is head of the family, the wife second, and the wife is supposed to think the way her husband thinks.  Disagreements between spouses are handled by praying, and the husband has a direct line to God, the wife has a line that goes through her husband first.

 

The children are supposed to listen to both their parents, but their father first.  Jill is supposed to follow her husband now that she's married, but Derrick has tied himself firmly to Jim Bob, so in any disagreement Jill will ask her father for advice.  Jim Bob is an idiot in many ways, but he's managed to get himself in a position where he's the boss, speaking for God.

 

If Derrick wants to rethink the 'as many children as possible' policy, Jill will ask her parents what to do and whatever Jim Bob says will be Gospel to her.  Jim Bob will pray, and if he's truly worried about Jill's health in future pregnancies, he might say that God has laid it on his heart that Jill proceed to plan on a large family, but to keep in mind what her doctors have advised. 

 

But if Jim Bob is sure that real problems won't occur until Jill is at least on her 10th kid, he'll say to continue on with the way she's been taught and he'll pray on her behalf for guidance in the future.  I don't think that JB would tell Jill to do something that will almost certainly end in her death, but I think that he's so sure of his own righteousness that he could give bad advice or give good advice too late to prevent a tragedy.

Edited April 15, 2015 by Zahdii

[3girlsforus]

This is one of those things that varies by state.  Some states do not allow CPMs to administer IVs, but other states do have IV administration as part of midwife training and will allow CPMs to administer IV antibiotics.

One of my births was a home birth attended by a very experienced midwife and an apprentice midwife.  There was oxygen on hand as well as vials of pitocin (not for augmenting labor, mind you; they have it on hand for use in post-delivery complications), Methergine, and other emergency supplies the complete list of which I've since forgotten.

 

 

Yes but that was my point. I had  home births with a CNM and she had access to all of that as well because she was a CNM and in our state could legal prescribe medications and administer O2, pitocin (post delivery), antibiotics etc. But Jill was not delivering with a CNM. She was delivering with a lay midwife. I know of no states where lay midwives can legally administer those medications. So I wonder if either she wasn't ever tested for GBS prior to labor and was tested when she got to the hospital or if she knew and just planned to forgo the antibiotics. 

 

When I last had a baby (over a decade ago) the GBS test had to be done in the weeks leading up to delivery so I don't know if it's even possible for her to have had a rapid test when she got to the hospital. 

[Skittl1321]

  I'm not sure what was meant by 70 hours of labor, but labors can be very different.  In two of my three pregnancies, I spent several days to a week in "early labor," with mild contractions that came and went and took me to 5 cm before "real" labor kicked in.  I went to the hospital the first time and was advised to go home because hospitals don't allow you to labor along slowly like that.  

 

 

The people article that states she was in labor for 70 hours says she went to the hospital after 20 hours of laboring at home- so that is 50 hours of labor in the hospital, well after her water broke, after the meconium issues.

 

So if it is an exaggeration, unless it is just flat out wrong- the only exaggeration of "early labor" could be on the 20 hour part.  It seems like the time she spent in the hospital shouldn't be up for interpretation. She was either there, or she wasn't.

[Zahdii]

She was definitely in the hospital, but just when she checked in is unknown.

[doodlebug]

If she refuses treatment though, can't they make her leave?  It seems like she becomes a malpractice risk to them

 

Nope, there is a federal law that prevents any hospital from turning away a patient in labor.  Once her water broke, she qualified for hospital admission.  The hospital does have reasonable expectation that someone who presents there to have their baby is going to agree to medical care; but they cannot turn them out if they refuse.  The law is EMTALA (Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act) and there are signs posted in every ER and L&D in the country advising patients of it.

[GEML]

I have to think she knew about strep b in advance. I've raked her over the coals pretty good, but SURELY she wouldn't let so basic a test with such an easy fix (even at home - a home health nurse could put in an IV!) go undone.

[Cherrio]

Lately, Jill seems irritated with Derick in all their videos. He says something, she interjects a correction, and then they both look uncomfortable. In this video, he says they have started to "get back some sleep" and she says "well, not really. He is walking us up at night." He looks at her like he doesn't know what to say and then there's a pause and then Jill continues with the point that Derick was originally making. They really are super awkward together.

I noticed this too, starting with the birthing classes. 

             What I also got out of these post birth vids and articles is that Jill probably did make a lot of stupid decisions ( she is not a midwife by any means imo) and that because of her ignorant upbringing she feels like a failure.

             When your life only consists of some crazy religious cult and a mother addicted to pregnancy, and she considers herself an expert (sans any real education) she must feel like she totally screwed up.    

 Add in that she clearly does not seem to like her husband by talking back to him/correcting him for all to see (isn't that against the rules?)    she is a total loser in Duggarland.

 Her small bubble world has turned into a big smelly fart.

[GEML]

If I thought there was even a crumb of humility privately between even just she and Derick, I'd feel terribly sorry for them both. But I think this whole experience probably only taught her to double down that she knows more than anyone else.

[3girlsforus]

I have to think she knew about strep b in advance. I've raked her over the coals pretty good, but SURELY she wouldn't let so basic a test with such an easy fix (even at home - a home health nurse could put in an IV!) go undone.

 

I would love to believe that but I do wonder. I know in my experiences with the 'super-crunchy' there were too many of them who poo-pooed the need for antibiotics for GBS. They would quote the statistics (these aren't quite right but you'll get the idea) that a mom who is GBS+ has a 40 - 50% chance of passing it on to the baby during delivery but the baby has only a .02% chance of becoming ill. Then they would spout the evils of antibiotics. They would also site the fact that a GBS+ in the weeks prior to labor doesn't mean GBS+ while in labor (and visa versa) so if the test isn't accurate you are taking unnecessary meds.  In addition when I was getting my DONA certification I was required to attend birth classes as part of my training. I chose Bradley because it was near my house and the instructor let me come for free. The 'you don't really need IV antibiotics for GBS' was discussed multiple times in that class. I know Jill and Derick took Bradley so I have to wonder if they subscribe to that idea as well. I seriously hope she wasn't planning on taking the risk but if any of the People article is true she was willing to take a lot of risks so I just don't know.

[doodlebug]

It sounds like Jill, like so many homebirth/crunchy moms, thought there was only one way to have a baby; that all she had to do was wish and make it so.  The problem is that there are as many ways to have babies as there are women to have them.  What works for one, doesn't for another.  What happens to one woman doesn't necessarily happen to the next.  Even the same woman can have completely different experiences in different pregnancies.  That's why it is so important to keep an open mind and play the cards you are dealt. It's great to want an unmedicated non-hospital birth; but, being inflexible about it when circumstances speak against it is just foolish.  A first time mom with a very large baby who has gone significantly overdue and whose water breaks before she goes into active labor is usually not going to have an easy, no drugs, no intervention labor.  I don't know the exact stats; but a large majority will need help. Jill set herself up by deciding that there was only one way to go; that pitocin was evil, that antibiotics aren't necessary.  While the risk of group B strep infection is overall tiny in term pregnancy; it is significantly elevated in women whose water has been broken for more than 18 hours or so (there is research to back this up).  A woman whose water breaks who doesn't go into spontaneous labor is far less likely to suffer complications for herself or her baby if pitocin is started within 6 hours (once again, there's research on this stuff).  In addition, the risks of pitocin to mom and baby are far less than the risks of major surgery like a C/S.  If Jill really chose to have a cesarean rather than pitocin (presuming there was a choice by the time she got around to going to the hospital); she is an ignorant twit.

[Absolom]

I've been trying to work on the time line.  First Derick had his misleading post about labor and it turned out to be Braxton Hicks.  On Saturday Jill said she wasn't in labor and they were having Mexican food to try to jump start labor.  On Sunday she posted the tee shirt picture as 41 weeks 5 days.  Derick posted a picture as being back at home later that week, but it was the exact outfit and had the IV line.  My understanding in AR is that patients should be tested for GBS and a medical professional (MD/CNM) needs to prescribe the medication.  I think the CPM is allowed to administer it at home.  So it looks more to me as if Jill's water broke some time Sunday and she labored at home (for maybe 20 hours or went 20 hours after water breaking) and then saw meconium and headed off to the hospital where Izzy was delivered a few hours later.  It's possible in this scenario that Izzy was delivered within or close to the recommended 24 hours of water breaking.  That makes the People article mostly fiction, but it fits the story Jill told on Instagram as it was unfolding.  

 

If I got the dates wrong let me know.  I tried to find the photos on her instagram and couldn't.

 

Perhaps the People writer doesn't understand labor at all and began counting with Derick's post or completely misunderstood what was said

[graefin]

I haven't read the posts here yet on any video or interview statements that Jill has made so far. Here's my comment on what I viewed/read so far...Jill stated that when it's YOUR OWN BABY, it's quite different than a sibling or family member relationship to bond with and take care of.

I think this statement of hers, combined with Derick's that this was his first ultrasound ever, first hearing the heartbeat of a baby ever, just highlights how completely f-ed up their belief system is. Of course having your own baby should be different than caring for your siblings (because in most households, siblings are not raising siblings), and if you've never had a child before, it stands to reason this would be your first ultrasound experience. It's kind of amusing how people have such high hopes of outsiders like Derick or Marjorie helping their Duggar partners see the light--by all indications they don't view the Duggar way of life as abnormal or maladaptive in any way.

[JoanArc]

 

"God won't love you more for every baby that you have!

But your fmaily, friends, social group, and religious leaders will. Plus, your life purpose it to keep the ratings high.

 

 

But I think this whole experience probably only taught her to double down that she knows more than anyone else.

That what scares me about her attending (you know she will) Anna, Jessa, or Jana's (yeah, right!) birth. Lots of red flags, and no common sense. Jill's just coming off a year of endless social media praise of literally EVERYTHING she's done. That's got to mess you up big time.

 

 

If I had a nickel for every one that told me 'I know my body'....

The guy who first recommended a cesarean; she wanted him fired immediately.  You've got no idea how ridiculous people can be.

 

Just chiming in that as a nurse I do know...and this has the ring of truth. I'm sure Jill was a handful, and probably tried to convert a few staff.

 

The TV show is such an elephant in the room; I wonder how much of needing to get a 'good story' w/o the possibility of restaging shots drove this crazy train.

[Sew Sumi]

The latest People article indicates that she WAS given Pitocin. eta: it also indicates that she says water broke early on 4/4, a day before she took her 41w5d pic. So she was in active labor and they stopped to take a picture before she went to the hospital ? What???? Did they take this at midnight then leave? I'm a bit confused. 

 

http://www.people.com/article/jill-duggar-dillard-scared-praying-during-labor-baby-israel-david-dillard

Edited April 15, 2015 by Sew Sumi

[TomServo]

But Jill was not delivering with a CNM. She was delivering with a lay midwife. I know of no states where lay midwives can legally administer those medications. 

 

They can in mine.  They can not write prescriptions for them, but they can administer them.  I had a lay midwife (CPM) in the event I described, not a CNM.  There are relatively few CNMs in the U.S. who attend homebirths because of barriers to out-of-hospital practice by CNMs.

 

Here is an excerpt from the CPM (lay midwife) Practice Guidelines at my state board of health's website:

 

"Upon the administration of any prescribed medication(s), the Midwife shall document in the client’s chart the type of prescribed medication(s) administered, name of prescribed medication, expiration date, lot number, dosage, method of administration, site, date, time, and the prescribed medication’s effect.

Administration of Physician Prescribed Medications by a Midwife:

1. Rh Immune Globulin;

2. Oxygen;

3. Pitocin and Methergine, orally or intramuscularly, postpartally;

4. Local anesthetic for perineal repair;

5. Prophylactic ophthalmic medication for newborn;

6. Vitamin K, orally or intramuscularly, for newborn;

7. Other medications, as prescribed by a physician."

Edited April 15, 2015 by TomServo

[JoanArc]

 

When things didn't work out that way, she says her doctor told her that her birth plan – which included contingencies for Pitocin (a hormone to stimulate contractions, which she was given at the hospital before she gave birth) and a cesarean section (also in her birth plan) – was one of the most extensive he'd ever seen.

Total BS. Jill isn't some pregnancy/delivery expert, and I'm sure the doctor was sick of her shit early-on.

[GEML]

I would love to believe that but I do wonder. I know in my experiences with the 'super-crunchy' there were too many of them who poo-pooed the need for antibiotics for GBS. They would quote the statistics (these aren't quite right but you'll get the idea) that a mom who is GBS+ has a 40 - 50% chance of passing it on to the baby during delivery but the baby has only a .02% chance of becoming ill. Then they would spout the evils of antibiotics. They would also site the fact that a GBS+ in the weeks prior to labor doesn't mean GBS+ while in labor (and visa versa) so if the test isn't accurate you are taking unnecessary meds. In addition when I was getting my DONA certification I was required to attend birth classes as part of my training. I chose Bradley because it was near my house and the instructor let me come for free. The 'you don't really need IV antibiotics for GBS' was discussed multiple times in that class. I know Jill and Derick took Bradley so I have to wonder if they subscribe to that idea as well. I seriously hope she wasn't planning on taking the risk but if any of the People article is true she was willing to take a lot of risks so I just don't know.

The sound that you hear is me hitting my head against the wall. I'm going to assume, given that it is likely, given the story, that it is likely that Jill had the IV. But this kind of stuff just drives me nuts.

[Jellybeans]

What bothers me about this is my grandmother, bless her sweet heart taught me long ago to always follow the principles of John 8:7. I am not religious in the way the Dillards or Duugars are.

We all carry "oh shit" bags on our back. Meaning mistakes we would not have made had we known better. No one has an empty bag. No one. As my grandmother used to say, "accept your mistakes with love".

Most of you know I lost my adult daughter. Her death was preventable, and I come from a bad family who interferred with her wellbeing and my attempts to get her help. She however was devoted to the bad influence of my family. The Duggars appear like Saints in comparison but I know it isn't true.

Jill and her siblings were raised to be this way. It is hard to undo, unsee how you were raised.

Focusing on bare feet, IV's or midwifery beliefs is not the problem. The problem is the Duggar parents who truly damaged all the kids.

Edited April 15, 2015 by Jellybeans

[Absolom]

The latest People article indicates that she WAS given Pitocin. eta: it also indicates that she says water broke early on 4/4, a day before she took her 41w5d pic. So she was in active labor and they stopped to take a picture before she went to the hospital ? What???? Did they take this at midnight then leave? I'm a bit confused. 

 

http://www.people.com/article/jill-duggar-dillard-scared-praying-during-labor-baby-israel-david-dillard

So much for my theory.  So her water had broken when they went out to lunch?  Jill and I have that one in common.  I, however, asked the OB before doing it.  

[Skittl1321]

The latest People article indicates that she WAS given Pitocin. eta: it also indicates that she says water broke early on 4/4, a day before she took her 41w5d pic. So she was in active labor and they stopped to take a picture before she went to the hospital ? What???? Did they take this at midnight then leave? I'm a bit confused. 

 

http://www.people.com/article/jill-duggar-dillard-scared-praying-during-labor-baby-israel-david-dillard

 

Where? It says her birth plan had contingencies for Pitocin, but not what those contingencies were.  Nothing says she took it, unless they've edited since you read it.

[Higgins]

I'm curious too what can the hospital do if anything to protect the mother and baby if the mother is refusing treatment?

They would have them sign forms that she was acting AMA, for sure

[GEML]

I don't disagree with your point overall, Jellybeans. She is a product of her childhood. And I actually never criticized Anna and the toilet birth for that very reason. I HOPED that she would make better choices in the future (and she did) but I fully took into account her situation and circumstances.

My issues with Jill is that she does actually have a genuine education beyond her parents. And she represents that education and profession not only within her circle, but for other young mothers on national television. And it's a profession that I really care about, and think gets a lot of negative press from medical professionals. And she had not, thus far, been a good witness. That's what's bothering me.

Edited April 15, 2015 by GEML

[Zanzibar]

Where? It says her birth plan had contingencies for Pitocin, but not what those contingencies were.  Nothing says she took it, unless they've edited since you read it.

 

From the article:  "When things didn't work out that way, she says her doctor told her that her birth plan – which included contingencies for Pitocin (a hormone to stimulate contractions, which she was given at the hospital before she gave birth) and a cesarean section (also in her birth plan) – was one of the most extensive he'd ever seen."

[Skittl1321]

 which she was given at the hospital before she gave birth

Ah- I hadn't seen that.

[3girlsforus]

The sound that you hear is me hitting my head against the wall. I'm going to assume, given that it is likely, given the story, that it is likely that Jill had the IV. But this kind of stuff just drives me nuts.

 

Yep -more than one hole in the wall where I banged my head in disgust. 

 

I don't disagree with your point overall, Jellybeans. She is a product of her childhood. And I actually never criticized Anna and the toilet birth for that very reason. I HOPED that she would make better choices in the future (and she did) but I fully took into account her situation and circumstances.

My issues with Jill is that she does actually have a genuine education beyond her parents. And she represents that education and profession not only within her circle, but for other young mothers on national television. And it's a profession that I really care about, and think gets a lot of negative press from medical professionals. And she had not, thus far, been a good witness. That's what's bothering me.

This sums up my frustration for me as well. She is a terrible witness for home births and midwives just as her parents are horrible witnesses for homeschooling and Christianity as a whole. 

[3 is enough]

So I just read the latest People article.  It says that her water broke on Saturday morning, yet she supposedly went out to lunch at the Mexican place that day to see if "things could get going".  Who goes out to eat AFTER their water breaks?  And did she know she had tested positive for Strep B at this time?

 

I just don't know.  There seems to be some back-pedaling going on.  Certainly I sympathize that her labor and delivery didn't go as planned, but I would have thought that someone who truly believes that babies are a gift from God would not hesitate to put the health of the baby first and foremost.  It certainly does not seem to be the case.

 

My water broke with my third baby. I was 4 days overdue at the time.  Called the doctor, and was told to come in to the hospital right away.  They gave me pitocin to start the contractions and my son was born 6 hours later.  End of story. This was nearly 23 years ago, but I had been told that when your water breaks the baby is much more prone to infection and should be born asap.  I did not question what sounded like perfectly reasonable advice.

[graefin]

So I just read the latest People article.  It says that her water broke on Saturday morning, yet she supposedly went out to lunch at the Mexican place that day to see if "things could get going".  Who goes out to eat AFTER their water breaks?  And did she know she had tested positive for Strep B at this time?

 

I just don't know.  There seems to be some back-pedaling going on.  Certainly I sympathize that her labor and delivery didn't go as planned, but I would have thought that someone who truly believes that babies are a gift from God would not hesitate to put the health of the baby first and foremost.  It certainly does not seem to be the case.

I don't have any personal experience in this regard, but I would think once your water breaks, you'd want to be some place where you could safely deliver the baby.

As much as the Duggars shun the rest of the world while claiming that their way isn't for everyone, they (and/or TLC and/or their PR people, if they have any) certainly seem to be hyper-aware of any criticisms of their behavior and are lightning-quick to address them.

Does anyone remember if Jill talked over Derrick before they were married or did she start doing it once she had him locked in? I can't stand to watch their interviews. She's just too rude. She repeatedly interrupts him and talks over him.

Their latest video reinforces how obnoxious I find Jill. The know-it-all trait seems to run in the Duggar girls. Despite their "keep sweet" mentality, they can't seem to help talking over their men (Jessa did it too with Ben when Sierra--who is also annoying--asked him what his favorite ice cream flavors were). It also shows that Jill wasn't even listening to what Derick was actually saying--he started saying they had been catching up on "some" of their sleep when Jill jumped in and corrected him by saying "not all" and that the baby was still waking them up at night. Maybe after raising a passel of kids for her mother, she doesn't know any other way to relate to another person?

[Mariva]

So much for my theory.  So her water had broken when they went out to lunch?  Jill and I have that one in common.  I, however, asked the OB before doing it.  

No they went out to lunch on Friday afternoon. Her water broke in the early hours of Saturday, I'm guessing around 1~2am, if we are to believe the 70 hours timeline from when Jill delivered her baby. Derick posted Jill's last bump update (41 weeks & 4 days, not 5) around 8am later that morning. Which means Jill's water was already broken by the time he posted the photo.

 

Someone who's more knowledgable in birth correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like Jill's water broke but she didn't start getting contractions until much later? And in the hours leading up to it she felt fine, at least enough to stand around and take photos? Everything I've read says that Derick did nothing but his best to support his wife. So I find it highly unlikely that he would be more concerned about updating social media if there was any indication of Jill having labor pains and under serious distress.  I definitely think the 70 hours of "intense" labor was an exaggeration, either because the reporter or Jill didn't clarify (or understand) that line between when Jill's water broke and when her labor started. I'm guessing when they referred to the 20 hours period before Jill went to the hospital most of that time was just waiting around for Jill to go into labor. When that didn't happened, they went to the hospital where it sounds like she went into labor but then stalled again, until finally she agreed to Pitocin after much hesitation (but she ended up with a C-section anyway). I'm guessing her actual labor (ie. contractions) was much closer to the 50 hours spent in the hospital which sounds more "reasonable" than 70 hours IMO. I've heard of several women who've had 48+ hours labor but 3 days seems way too excessive.

[GEML]

I will be honest - my water broke and I took a shower, are breakfast and did some errands. I knew I wasn't going to have life as I knew it after that, but I wasn't having contractions and there were some things that needed to be done. We are talking two hours tops. My doctor sighed a lot with me as a patient. My daughter was born well within the 24 hour window.

I'm not saying that Jill had to drop everything over any given issue. Up until she got to the hospital, actually, I don't think she was being unreasonable. And I don't think she waited too long to go. It's that it seems she fought nearly EVERY medical intervention that bothers me, once she was there. And she still ended up with the last scenario that she wanted. It just seems too bad that a little common sense might have helped her and made the birth not only easier, but actually more what she'd hoped if to be.

[Skittl1321]

 Who goes out to eat AFTER their water breaks? 

A friend of mine went to Home Depot after her water broke.  She lived in the country. When her water broke, her husband drove her to the city. She wasn't having close contractions, so she thought she could get some errands in before proceeding to the hospital.

 

She said she walked around the store, stopping every once in a while and clutching the cart to get through a contraction.