Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[AmandaPanda]

We just hid a couple of posts that provided links to a full episode on YouTube. Please do not post links to episodes that have been posted on other sites illegally. 

[doodlebug]

Episodes have been taken off On Demand in HD, but they are still there for non-HD. I'm in D.C

They're still available from On Demand in Cleveland (Cox).  I think it matters who your cable provider is as well as what part of the country.

 

I don't see a lot of joy here, I do think that many of us, including myself, have thought over the years that the Duggars, specifically Jim Bob, Michelle and Josh, were smug hypocrites and I suppose there is some satisfaction in finding out we were correct.  However, I don't think anyone is joyful that the Duggar daughters have been hurt so grievously and we are sickened because many have found their brand of religion to be misogynistic over the years and we ache because we have a feeling those girls were not protected or comforted; but instead blamed and chastised for their brother's deviant behavior.

 

If there really are demons in their part of Arkansas causing wonderful Christians like the Duggar to sin and they need to be driven into a lake, why use hogs?  Why not pack those mean old debbils into some used cars off the Jim Bob's' lot and drive 'em clean into the ocean?  Josh is looking for work, I hear.

[Almost 3000]

I don't think being raised sexually repressed, socially isolated and religiously fundamentalist caused Josh to do what he did but I do think having that patriarchal crown on his head as the favored prince of the family was a big part of it.

We just hid a couple of posts that provided links to a full episode on YouTube. Please do not post links to episodes that have been posted on other sites illegally.

TLC has posted some of the episodes so they are not necessarily illegal.

[RazzleberryPie]

They're off on On Demand, Comcast, western PA.

Edited May 25, 2015 by RazzleberryPie

[BulldogAreGreat]

If TLC does pitch the compromise of continuing the show but without the Smuggars....won't it be interesting to see how JB and Mechelle respond. Whether they will go for that. As "family" oriented as they claim to be, will they be OK with their precious Joshy and family being excluded?

I think they would. As you say, they are "family" oriented. The show has always meant more to them than their own children as far as I can tell. Anything to keep the show and the money coming. They will say it is because they want to continue "spreading their ministry" or whatever it is they say about why they actually have a show. 

[AmandaPanda]

TLC has posted some of the episodes so they are not necessarily illegal.

 

Regardless, the link that was posted was definitely illegal.

[Almost 3000]

Regardless, the link that was posted was definitely illegal.

Got it. I posted a recommendation that was from the TLC YT channel because posters were asking. Anyway, there really is a TLC channel on You Tube with videos of the Duggars including the "Digging with the Duggars" interview.

[JenCarroll]

Do you mean the "Digging In" episode? I watched it last night and did not street interview comments.

It was the episode before Digging In. They aired back to back. Maybe Duggars Guide to Relationships?

[Aethera]

OK folks, things are getting a bit heated here.  Let's all take a deep breath.  A couple of things:

 

1. We may be moving the David Waller discussion to the Sweet Fellowship thread, since we think it more properly belongs there. So if your David Waller nickname-related post disappears, it's not because we hid it, it's because we moved it.  We understand why some folks don't like the nickname, but let's not discuss it here.  We will not be hiding posts with the nickname.  If folks want to discuss changing the nickname, that can be done in the Sweet Fellowship thread. 

 

2. This event has brought up a lot of emotions for a lot of people. People are disgusted, ashamed of their previous support of the Duggars, shocked by the support being shown them by others, worried about the children, mad at TLC, mad at Michelle & JimBob, sick at the situation, worried for Josh, worried for Josh's family, worried about more potential victims, and distressed at having old wounds reopened in their own lives. All of these emotional reactions are valid. I'm sure there are people among our posters who are happy that the Duggars have been brought down, however we are not monsters - I highly doubt anyone here is glad that THIS is what has come out about the Duggars. No one wanted to see this happen. And i have not seen glee expressed in this forum.

 

This is a SAFE SPACE for people to discuss their reactions to the situation.  Please do not chastise people for their opinions or their need to express themselves. And leave the modding to the mods, please! 6 of us are here, reading as fast as we can, keeping up as best we can. If you see something that you feel needs our attention, please REPORT it, do not engage on it.  If you're worried something you have to say might be hidden, PM us and ask if it's ok to post; we'll respond pretty quickly. If you're too angry about what's going on in the thread to follow this request, maybe take a break.

 

Thanks for your understanding, your consideration, your snark, your compassion, and your fresh homemade cookies that can be sent to PTV headquarters, since I'm sure TPTB would share them with us, and not just eat them all, right?

[JenCarroll]

Still available (for purchase) on Amazon Instant Video. And TLC still has the (legal) videos up on YouTube.

[Fallacy]

It's taken me several days of processing to come up with a response to this news. Like everyone else, I am disgusted. Like many here, I was also molested by a family member. But unlike, the victims in this case, I was given a choice about when, where, and how to confront my abuser. What makes me sad this morning is that the victims in this case weren't given a choice 12 years ago, but they also weren't given a choice in 2015. Some sleazy tabloid decided to expose their story to the world, and I can't celebrate that. If In Touch had any sensitivity at all, someone there would have contacted the victims and asked their permission to broadcast the news of their abuse to the world. And no, I'm not talking about protecting the abuser. I am talking about protecting the victims. If In Touch had any decency at all, they would have eliminated the names of the parents from the police report to protect the victims, but nope, they wanted to add another level of vileness to the scandal by revealing that it was incestuous molestation.

 

Having been through this personally, without the pressure of extreme fundamentalism, I can say that, for a period in my life, once the behavior stopped, I preferred pretending that everyone was one big happy family, so I can completely understand why the victims in this case did the same. I am sure that like me that bubble would have burst at some point and they would have confronted their abuser and their parents, but again, it saddens me that the victims here weren't allowed the privacy and dignity to get to that place on their own. In Touch decided that it was more important to have a "GOTCHA!" moment than to let the victims to decide when and how to confront their abuser. Maybe they never wanted to do, and I don't get to judge them for that. Maybe they would have in 5 years or 10 years, but again, I don't get to judge them for that. I'm just so sad that they weren't given a choice, again, and it feels like, at least to me, that the media is re-victimizing them.

 

I don't know if I'm expressing myself well here or not, but hopefully, again, nobody thinks I'm talking about protecting the abuser from the media and public scrutiny. I just find it so tragic that four out of five of his victims were also exposed in the process.

 

 

[sigmaforce86]

You raise an interesting point. They are as obsessed about defrauding and modesty as they ever were. And they do say that their skirts are always supposed to cover the knee, and that their shirts are supposed to not be too tight or low cut. But I'd agree that they push the envelope with both those things. They are completely blind to the fact that their modesty standards are arbitrary, and that by nature of being human beings, they will certainly "defraud" people every day. It's almost like, to them, as long as you follow Gothard's magic but highly arbitrary formula, you're safe from defrauding.

 

 

I'll say this quickly but take discussion to another thread since it risks going off topic - The Church or Gothards and Jim Bob, Michelle and by extension the kids have no idea what modesty is because their version of it isn't societies version.  We've all sort of agreed as a society that for men and women the groin and butt isn't shown in public and for women add in no breasts.  Breast feeding and, in appropriate settings thong bathing suits excluded.  But the Duggar version of modesty isn't about body parts it's about stirring lust.  What they don't recognize is that what makes a man or woman attracted to another person isn't necessarily the part that's between the neck and the knee - some people get off on feet yet the girls wear flip flops and sandals all the time, other people find hair (head or facial depending on the sex or even bald) a turn on. Even in countries were a burka is worn some men get crazy trying to just imagine what is under it.

My point is they're not dressing that way meet or maybe exceed social norms and they can never achieve what they think they're achieving - dressing and presenting in such a way that nobody that sees them is ever tempted or has a lustful or sexual thought.  At some point the person looking at you has to control themselves and you're not responsible if they don't.

[starfire]

mingming, on 24 May 2015 - 9:33 PM, said:

Here is a comment from "concernedmom" on a blog from 2005.

 

...A few years ago ... the men of the church were meeting after church to discuss my friends teenage daughters apparel. They felt like their blouses were to tight and they should bind their chest up more, go figure. At the same time the son of one of these political men was touching one of my friends teenage daughters in a sexual way as she slept. This was found out and apologies were made although the boy was tempted by the girls tight blouses(lol). The boy was sent to one of the training centers to be punished??? My friends did not return to the home church for quite sometime after this. At this same time, the boy mentioned earlier was betrothed to a girl in the the group, both were 14 at the time. The betrothal was broken by the boys actions. ... Just this last year the family of the young man mentioned before was highlighted on the Discovery Channel, at the time they had 14 children and were about to have another and the mom was receiving a mother of the year award from our governor. Since that time the same boy was betrothed again to the same girl. He was working very hard on a campaingn for U.S. Senate for the girls father. The father lost the campaign. He immediately began looking for “sin in the camp”, as that could be the only explanation for the loss. He found that the young man betrothed to his daughter, had committed sexual sins(?) while on the campaign trail. The young man, now 16, was made to stand in fornt of the church and confess his sin. He was then told that the campaign was lost due to his sin. The weight of the world on this poor boys shoulders. I do not know what punishment the church gave but I do know that it was harsh enough for his mother to seek advise outside of the “group”, but she did eventually give in to her husband and the group. The young man and young girls betrothal is now broken. I am I nuts to see this as abuse? And what do you think can be done?

This just gets weirder and weirder. If this post is true, does this mean this "friend's teenage daughter" is a potential 6th victim of Josh? My understanding of the victims in the police report is that the oldest one was only 12.

[GEML]

I actually do feel real pity for Josh. Because he lived not only in an environment that no doubt took something that might only have been a little warped and twisted it harder within him, but then pretty much refused to get him real help for it once they found out.

Plenty of people who work with people dealing with what he suffered with have said many people grow into adults who do not go on to act upon such urges as adults. Whether Josh does or not is not something we know, but we know the chances would be much higher if he'd been offered real help.

At some level, he must feel it. I know plenty think of him only as "Smuggar" but if he DID stop, imagine bringing down your entire family, your entire extended family and everything you held dear based upon something that happened when you were only a teenager. That is NOT to minimize what he did, but unless there are further allegations that the abuse continued into adulthood, then yes, I can feel pity. I feel pity for most young people who screw up their lives so badly at the start, actually.

[RazzleberryPie]

If there really are demons in their part of Arkansas causing wonderful Christians like the Duggar to sin and they need to be driven into a lake, why use hogs?  Why not pack those mean old debbils into some used cars off the Jim Bob's' lot and drive 'em clean into the ocean?  Josh is looking for work, I hear.

Hogs because: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%208&version=KJV

 

I think they would. As you say, they are "family" oriented. The show has always meant more to them than their own children as far as I can tell. Anything to keep the show and the money coming. They will say it is because they want to continue "spreading their ministry" or whatever it is they say about why they actually have a show. 

"Family-oriented" and "family values" are meaningless terms to me. Lizzie Bordon was family-oriented. The Borgias and Tudors were family-oriented, and took efforts to "spread their ministry." Even Charles Manson focused on his 'family.'

 

I agree with you that JimBob's top priority is to promote himself. His 19 kids and following all those Gothard rules are just a means to an end.

[CherryAmes]

I feel pity for Josh and also for his parents in the specific situation that happened when he was a teenager.  I don't agree with how they handled it but at least they did try and do something and, to their credit, it sounds like they believed their daughters.  Given their lifestyle and the crap way they approach being female I gotta give them some kudos for that.  However, and this is a big however, given the experience they had it makes the things they've said and done since then, particularly their uneducated and mean natured stance on gay issues even more reprehensible.

[Joe Jitsu913]

Look, there is no excuse for what he did but, he was a repressed child. Almost like imprisoned. He didn't have the reasoning of an adult. I don't think his acts as a child mean he is an adult pedophile. Adolescents are not held to the same legal standards as adults for a reason. All of these kids are victims of emotional abuse and brainwashing, including Josh.

Typically, the age of 14 is considered within the age of reason. At least, in my line of work it is (insurance). Regardless, this isn't a one-time thing. He molested them over a long period of time. At which point, he was over and above the age of reason. As I've said before, this is pathological behaviour that can't be prayed away while doing construction work. His behavior would have only escalated.

I think people would be more understanding of this horrible situation if the Duggars didn't try to dictate how other people live (Catholics, gays, women). These people are rotten to the core and have deemed themselves worthy of being the moral authority of today's society. It was only a matter of time before their downfall and IMO, their will be a lot more secrets to follow.

Edited May 25, 2015 by bigskygirl
Edited out inappropriate sentence about Josh possibly molesting his brothers.

[GEML]

I would be surprised if the age of accountability in the Duggar's world was older than 8. Certainly not older than 10. After all, these children had the benefit of being raised the "right" way.

[elainebenis]

This just gets weirder and weirder. If this post is true, does this mean this "friend's teenage daughter" is a potential 6th victim of Josh? My understanding of the victims in the police report is that the oldest one was only 12.

 

Yeah. The 'sexual sins happened on the campaign trail' part jumped out at me too.

[skippy]

I don't think Anna will divorce Josh. She'd really have nowhere to go. Her parents live in a tiny double-wide. Josh is going to be unemployable for the forseeable future so she won't see much money in alimony or child support. All her kids are under five. She has no education, no work history and no job skills. The most she could hope for is a minimum wage starter job which wouldn't cover diapers let alone rent, food and child care. I feel for Anna but this is a very good lesson to teach your daughters about why you don't say to hell with education/job training and put your entire well being in the hands of your husband. If you're a SAHM with a degree you have that insurance in the event that life implodes.

I agree. Anna will never leave Josh.  Not only would she have nowhere to go, she doesn't have anyone in her life who would encourage her to leave him. Even her own parents and at least one sister (Priscilla) will tell her she must stay, trust that God will take care of everything. She's had 24+ years of Gothard training and conditioning about what it means to be a "Godly wife". She's in it for the long-haul.

[Zung Li]

This just gets weirder and weirder. If this post is true, does this mean this "friend's teenage daughter" is a potential 6th victim of Josh? My understanding of the victims in the police report is that the oldest one was only 12.

I found another post by concernedmom which said pretty much the same thing that I originally posted but with this as well:

 

Then about a year later, my friend decided to go back to the home church and see everyone again. She was appalled at what went on at that particular meeting. An eight year old girl was made by her parents to stand in front of the group and confess the sin of masturbation and ask for punishment(to cleanse her) and forgiveness. My first thought was that this girl had to have been abused if she was truly masturbating, but with the power of these families, what can you do?

[Wellfleet]

I think they would. As you say, they are "family" oriented. The show has always meant more to them than their own children as far as I can tell. Anything to keep the show and the money coming. They will say it is because they want to continue "spreading their ministry" or whatever it is they say about why they actually have a show. 

 

Yep, that probably will be a part of their BS line, if they get the opportunity to forward with the show. I can totally see Boob getting behind this if it keeps the cash rolling in because sadly, you're right. It's about Boob and what he wants. His sense of superiority and entitlement is unparallelled. I can't speak about the days before TLC, but in just about every instance we've ever been shown since, I cannot think of a time when Boob went with something that would be better, or even just more fun, for the kids - over whatever he wanted. Oh, he gets emotional and incredulous about giving a daughter away at her wedding. Please. He abandoned them all a long time ago...

[Literata]

I feel pity for most young people who screw up their lives so badly at the start, actually.

 

I agree with your entire post; so very well said.

 

Boob and MEchelle are of primary responsibility here. Not only did they create an untenable living situation for a bunch of innocent kids, but when one of those children displayed heinously troubled behavior, they absolutely failed his victims, but they also failed him.

 

While it's true that most people whose childhoods are troubled grow up without sexually abusing their siblings, Josh obviously had issues to be addressed, and those most certainly were exacerbated by what probably were constant and inappropriate sexual references and examples. As we've discussed at length, the "sex is evil, but just WAIT until you're like us and you can do it because it's AWESOME" messaging had to be massively confusing, even for children who were not vulnerable to acting out inappropriately. (And it absolutely deserves to be mentioned again that sexual abuse is often learned behavior, and Josh could be a victim as well.)

 

I wish Boob and MEchelle had first validated and sought help for the girls, then found a solid treatment program for Josh, THEN sought the advice of credentialed, secular mental-health professionals for safely re-introducing Josh to the household.

 

The situation was obviously a tragic one, but it could have been dealt with so, so differently. Boob and MEchelle are abysmal parents, and I really do fear for the kids still left at home.

[fliptopbox]

I have DirecTV and there are 3 episodes available on demand. 2 are the behind the scenes ones (the Erica Hill interview and the crew behind the scenes) and the last is Jill's delivery special. I'm ok with those since they don't focus on JB & M or Josh's family. The guide says they're available til 6/16.

[direpup]

Some new Josh Duggar articles, from the "No Longer Quivering" site: 

 

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/nolongerquivering/2015/05/dear-victims-of-josh-duggar/

[kassygreene]

Still available (for purchase) on Amazon Instant Video. And TLC still has the (legal) videos up on YouTube.

Bear in mind that this is a holiday weekend, and regular business hours don't start until tomorrow (Tuesday).  This is also a holiday that lots of people add vacation days to.  So regular workers aren't in, the people who can make these decisions are not available, and yanking something completely off On Demand is probably above the paygrade of whoever is around - because if someone pulls a show without being authorized, lawyers and lawsuits can happen.

 

Anyway, my provider (Comcast, Florida panhandle) still has 2 or three episodes and 302 (!!!) clips available on line, and 6-8 episodes On Demand.  

 

Having looked that up on my laptop, I suddenly feel like it needs a cleansing.  Or at least a can of air.

[Nijntje]

Ten things every person should be able to affirm in the face of the Duggar family tragedy

 

http://teaminfocus.com.au/ten-things-every-person-should-be-able-to-affirm-in-the-face-of-the-duggar-family-tragedy/

[starfire]

mingming, on 25 May 2015 - 10:29 AM, said:mingming, on 25 May 2015 - 10:29 AM, said:

I found another post by concernedmom which said pretty much the same thing that I originally posted but with this as well:

 

Then about a year later, my friend decided to go back to the home church and see everyone again. She was appalled at what went on at that particular meeting. An eight year old girl was made by her parents to stand in front of the group and confess the sin of masturbation and ask for punishment(to cleanse her) and forgiveness. My first thought was that this girl had to have been abused if she was truly masturbating, but with the power of these families, what can you do?

Twisted. I wonder if "concernedmom" (or her friend) is the same person as "Alice" who also posted about the molestations a long time ago and seemed to be a current or former member of Duggar's church.

http://www.people.com/article/online-commenter-warned-josh-duggar-molestation

Edited May 25, 2015 by starfire

[bk10]

I live in NYC and Verizon Fios still has 5 episodes up.

[ChicksDigScars]

I need to look into this Amazon Smile thing people are talking about. I pretty much never pay any attention to my Amazon account, but it sounds like something useful is happening.

 

It's a good deal. Nothing changes in your shopping or prices. You just log into Amazon Smile, designate a charity, and they get a percentage when you shop. The no-kill animal shelter that I volunteer with has done it since the beginning (and they get my Amazon Smile money), and they have gotten checks from them for all the orders that have gone through. Might be quarterly or a couple times a year.

 

Mr. Seewald's blog is just laughable. The fact that he would dedicate one paragraph to the victims and the rest to Josh and the idea of forgiveness is so ridiculous.

 

The responses make me even more angry. One lady, honestly asked what the difference was between accepting and forgiving what Josh did (and the Duggars response to it), and the what they (and Seewald) says against gay marriage and homosexuals themselves. She said that she was a Christian and politely asked. The justification given by others (that Josh and the Duggars sought forgiveness, yet homosexuals continue to sin) made my occasional Catholic blood boil. What a bunch of "convenient Christians."  They see and interpret what they want, not what is actually written or said. 

 

I'm not going to that blog anymore. That loathsome tool and his blind sycophants just piss me off.  Not to mention making anyone who may call themselves a Christian, no matter what their religion is, or how often they go to church, look like fucking idiots. 

 

And the fact that I used the f-bomb in the same sentence as religion, gives you some idea how often a priest sees me. 

[Literata]

Ten things every person should be able to affirm in the face of the Duggar family tragedy

http://teaminfocus.com.au/ten-things-every-person-should-be-able-to-affirm-in-the-face-of-the-duggar-family-tragedy/

Beautiful. Thank you for sharing this.

The "sin versus crime" section should be mandatory reading for anyone who believes Josh's "youthful indiscretions" should be excused.

Edited May 25, 2015 by Literata

[Lillybee]

Interesting article on how ATI is into victim shaming.

 

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/05/heres-how-the-duggars-patriarchal-homeschool-world-teaches-kids-to-shame-sex-abuse-victims/

[Wellfleet]

I actually do feel real pity for Josh. Because he lived not only in an environment that no doubt took something that might only have been a little warped and twisted it harder within him, but then pretty much refused to get him real help for it once they found out.

Plenty of people who work with people dealing with what he suffered with have said many people grow into adults who do not go on to act upon such urges as adults. Whether Josh does or not is not something we know, but we know the chances would be much higher if he'd been offered real help.

At some level, he must feel it. I know plenty think of him only as "Smuggar" but if he DID stop, imagine bringing down your entire family, your entire extended family and everything you held dear based upon something that happened when you were only a teenager. That is NOT to minimize what he did, but unless there are further allegations that the abuse continued into adulthood, then yes, I can feel pity. I feel pity for most young people who screw up their lives so badly at the start, actually.

 

The largest part of any pity I feel for Josh is that he has Boob and Me-chelle for parents - and they were neither bright enough nor strong enough to get him - not to mention the girls - the help they all needed. Josh could have become an abuser even if Mother Teresa and Pope Francis had been his parents. The impulse could well be organic, at least to some extent - for all we know right now. So there's that. But even without the interference of the whole Gothard world and all the worst kind of influence it had, I'm guessing Boob and Me-chelle would only have clocked out to be mediocre parents at best. She is all about herself, no matter what. As a youngest child, born to a mother late in life, she was probably not especially wanted, and largely ignored as a young child. Except when she was the typically-adorable baby and pre-schooler, performing and getting laughs from the family and anyone else who'd listen to her. He, IMO, was picked on by neighbor kids and schoolmates alike, primarily for his size. Add to that what sounded like tough economic times for periods, and the intimations of conflicts with his own father - God alone knowing what they were. Plus having a fairly-submissive mother, if Grandma as she is today is any indication. Marrying far too young, with no education and no broader world view, having their own money troubles I'm sure - plus the other factors above, these are not two people who had the best of circumstances going into parenthood. A version of The Perfect Storm - a lot of reasons these two should have no kids, and certainly not as many as they were physically able, which is what they did. They just leaped onto the Gothard train, determined to do it all, throwing the throttle wide open and not caring in the least who wandered onto the track up ahead...

 

Edited for content.

Edited May 26, 2015 by Wellfleet

[HumblePi]

I have DirecTV and there are 3 episodes available on demand. 2 are the behind the scenes ones (the Erica Hill interview and the crew behind the scenes) and the last is Jill's delivery special. I'm ok with those since they don't focus on JB & M or Josh's family. The guide says they're available til 6/16.

I watched the Erica Hill special with the Duggar family and it was nauseating. Erica Hill is nauseating all by herself but when she spoon-feeds every question to them which has been decided beforehand, it just makes me want to throw up my breakfast.

[Pasha Kitty]

Well, the Duggars continue to draw us in.  People are posting like mad, all over the internet...... once TLC officially says bye-bye, some network is sure to want 'in' on the Duggars.  

I'm thinking that the E! Channel might eventually make them an offer they can't refuse, but then, the Kardashians  pretty much own E! and they would not allow it (I am not knocking the K's- I don't watch them, but at least 'they are who they are').

*Hallmark Channel?  Nah, the network is too wholesome.  

*UP?  Nah, the Bateses are already their mega family.

*TruTv?  Nah, the Duggars don't tell the truth.

*A & E (Arts & Entertainment)?  Nah, this network wouldn't want to hurt its reputation.

 

Just maybe......The BRAVO network????  Does anyone think there's a tv network out there that would film Josh after all of this?

Curious to know your thoughts.  Thanks. 

 

[Sew Sumi]

I'm sorry to be the wet blanket here, but I wish this whole TFDW thing would stop as I've read the list in the 19 Questions Thread and the explanation of how TFDW came about and it's clear that this is a term used for mockery.  One, being gay isn't something to be mocked, no more than having red hair or being left-handed.  It's no ok to mock gay people.  Two, so much of the criticism against the Duggars over the years have been their strict adherence to gender stereotypes, so it makes little sense that the fandom would mock a person for not strictly adhering to a specific gender behavior.  shame shame shame.  Raginging about Waller's stance on the LGBTQIA community is one thing.  Mocking him for the suspicion that he's gay is shameful.  

 

I recognize this is a post that will likely be hidden but I just can't stand this anymore and am genuinely saddened that this sort of behavior persists outside of the Duggar cult.  

My post referred to how David would handle Josh in terms of representing the Cult. Being his BIL is actually secondary. The public persona is what he's selling. Period. This has nothing to do with his sexuality. 

[Ljohnson1987]

http://www.people.com/article/michael-seewald-josh-duggar-reaction

 

Hey, Jessa. How do you feel that you FIL is supporting your brother that possibly molested you?

[Oldernowiser]

There are about twenty different religion channels DISHTV insists on including in my basic channel package...all of them Christian, most of them evangelical. I can see the PTL (Praise The Lord) channel eating this up and putting the whole family out there in sequins and big hair while weeping and begging for love offerings.

Jim and Tammy Faye times 21.

[lookeyloo]

Oldernowiser - just had that discussion with daughter-in-law about the religion channels

[Churchhoney]

Well, the Duggars continue to draw us in.  People are posting like mad, all over the internet...... once TLC officially says bye-bye, some network is sure to want 'in' on the Duggars.  

I'm thinking that the E! Channel might eventually make them an offer they can't refuse, but then, the Kardashians  pretty much own E! and they would not allow it (I am not knocking the K's- I don't watch them, but at least 'they are who they are').

*Hallmark Channel?  Nah, the network is too wholesome.  

*UP?  Nah, the Bateses are already their mega family.

*TruTv?  Nah, the Duggars don't tell the truth.

*A & E (Arts & Entertainment)?  Nah, this network wouldn't want to hurt its reputation.

 

Just maybe......The BRAVO network????  Does anyone think there's a tv network out there that would film Josh after all of this?

Curious to know your thoughts.  Thanks. 

 

 

I vote for the Crime & Investigation Network.

[Sunnybobs]

Interesting article on how ATI is into victim shaming.

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/05/heres-how-the-duggars-patriarchal-homeschool-world-teaches-kids-to-shame-sex-abuse-victims/

Wow this article had brought it home to me like no other how deeply weird and messed up the ATI attitude to sexual abuse is. It was hard to read. The very disturbing example ATI "counselling" literature used to explain how sexual abuse could happen in the home is frighteningly similar to the incidents reported in the police report. That the example boy in the counselling page was tempted towards abuse of his siblings by seeing them run around after their bath naked or in towels, that his parents were to blame for not insisting on modesty enough. Ugh how anyone can be "counselled" using these as beliefs is really really alarming. Also the fact that it is used as an example could suggest that this is one area that ATI was having to counsel families through which might also suggest this was a bigger problem. Separate to that the understanding that if counselling was given to any of those affected in the Duggar case - victims or abusers it would follow this model and be invested in these beliefs has only made me more aware how little I have ever understood Duggar philosophy. How you rebuild a family with that as your guide I have no idea.

[JoanArc]

 

"Family-oriented" and "family values" are meaningless terms to me. Lizzie Bordon was family-oriented. The Borgias and Tudors were family-oriented, and took efforts to "spread their ministry." Even Charles Manson focused on his 'family.'

This is such a beautiful quote it bears repeating. 'Family' is such a cipher.

 

I don't for one second believe Josh stopped. No pity for him whatsoever. He never faced a single REAL consequence, or learned a single lesson, except maybe how not to get caught. Sexual abusers get REALLY, FREAKISHLY good at picking victims who won't fight back, or who won't tell. It's a sick form of art, like a sixth sense. I know there's other victims, or other women he's had sex with. Rightly or wrongly the media will track some of them down, and we'll hear all about it.

 

My pity is reserved for Anna. She deserves a mulligan for getting getting married at the emotional age of 12.

[ChicksDigScars]

So, I'm taking some satisfaction that since Josh was blamed for JB losing the election (despite the fact that most voters at the time, had no idea about "sin in the camp"), he'll be blamed for the family cash flow being cut off (despite JB owning property and having other sources of income).  While this satisfies me as SOME sort of punishment for what he did, it also makes me sad. If Josh was an unmarried man with no children (like JD, for example), it would be more of a satisfying feeling after what he did. But, there's Anna and (almost) four cute kids.

 

I have seen posters on places like Gawker gleefully pointing to this happening as "the day they've been waiting for, " and how thrilled that this means the downfall of the Duggars. As much as I loathe Josh, MEE-chelle and Jim Bob, I can't be gleeful because of his sisters and his children, and how this affected, and will continue to affect, them.  Does this make sense?

 

It's a weird feeling.

Edited May 25, 2015 by ChicksDigScars

[Jamiesmum]

I live in Australia where there is a continuing Royal Commission into Child Sex Abuse. Its focus is on abuse that has occurred in all sorts of institutions including churches, schools, youth groups, sports groups, all sorts of places, and the scope is ever widening. It is moving from state to state and calls for all types of peoples to give their testimony including victims, family, staff and members of the various institutions etc. The time frame for delivery of the report has also been extended as the ever widening range of involvement emerges. I give this as background for what I heard today that struck me as relevant to this situation.

A psychiatrist was giving evidence regarding the impact of abuse on the victim. She had 20+ years experience in this field and is considered an expert. She said they there is no single way a victim responds to abuse. Each victim responds in their own way and in their own time. And while they may be OK and able to cope for many years, they can have reactions years later and these may be single or multiple occurrences. Because each victim responds in their own way and own time it is only recently that they have recognised that what manifests as depression or anxiety or substance abuse or whatever is not what needs to to be dealt with. It is the abuse itself. The other things are offshoots of the abuse. Of course she said it more coherently than that, and I apologise for any misunderstanding on my part.

But what really struck me was that the victim worked through their abuse in their own time, when it was suitable for them, and that it was not a one off, you are fixed now, get on with your life deal, and this was being recognised by people who are experts in this area, who work with sex abuse victims all the time. The idea that the abuser says sorry, the victim say OK, all better now, does just not happen. The victim is not all better until they say so. And it may not be permanent, or all better either.

Putting this into a Duggar context, I now see the enforced forgiveness of the victim of their abuser, because the abuser has said sorry under the Gothard system, as a further form of abuse. Time has been denied and the abuser has set the forgiveness timetable to suit them. They are bullied into forgiveness on pain of being unChristian and sinning by withholding their forgiveness. The victim may not even be able to understand what they are forgiving if they have not responded, reacted to or even understood what has happened to them. And as has been shown to be the case many times, even though a child may know what has happened to them is wrong, there are so many who do not really understand actually what has occurred until later, sometimes a lot later. How can forgiveness be given if there is no true understanding of what has happened? How can a child forgive when they cannot understand the full impact of the abuse on themselves?

I was not a victim of sex abuse as a child, but I was in an abusive relationship as an adult. And 35 years later, things still come up that take me by surprise. It can be anything. And my response can range from blowing raspberry and moving on to full on physical, emotional and anxiety reactions. And it took me a long while to realise what was happening. And actually, it took me a long time to realise that it actually had been an abusive relationship.

I empathise with the young ladies here who may not actually realise the full extent of what has happened to them. I hope and pray that proper help is there for them when they need it. And that they are given their own time and that their responses are respected as their own, and legitimate whatever they may be.

[fliptopbox]

I watched the Erica Hill special with the Duggar family and it was nauseating. Erica Hill is nauseating all by herself but when she spoon-feeds every question to them which has been decided beforehand, it just makes me want to throw up my breakfast.

Haven't seen it, and I also have no idea who Erica Hill is. But I am not surprised about the vetted questions, because I think that's how they do all their specials and interviews. Pre-approved mundane questions, all of which they've answered before. And of course M will find a way to trot out her bikini story, because she's still so damn proud of that. You'd think with the way they preach about modesty and covering up that she'd *never* tell that story, but apparently I am wrong. She was able to wear a bikini (back in the day) yet her kids can't even wear shorts.

[Sew Sumi]

Episodes have been taken off On Demand in HD, but they are still there for non-HD. I'm in D.C., if that makes any difference.

Totally removed from Xfinity's OnDemand (eta: SF Bay Area). They were still up yesterday, with the exception of the "street interview" epsiode, which I think was called "Guide to Love" or some such bullshit. I'm sure Josh was featured prominently, but I didn't have the stomach to watch it (had been on vacation, returning home the evening the news broke). 

Edited May 25, 2015 by Sew Sumi

[GEML]

It's ALWAYS been about Jim Bob and what he wants. The Senate run and $250,000 down the rat hole proved that long before TLC came around.

[bluebonnet]

 

 

I have seen posters on places like Gawker gleefully pointing to this happening as "the day they've been waiting for, " and how thrilled that this means the downfall of the Duggars. As much as I loathe Josh, MEE-chelle and Jim Bob, I can't be gleeful because of his sisters and his children, and how this affected, and will continue to affect, them.  Does this make sense?

 

It's a weird feeling.

It does make sense.  I see both sides of it.  I don't want the children to suffer and I'm glad the entire family is financially stable enough that there will be no true financial suffering.  Adjustments perhaps, but no one in that household is going to go hungry.  

 

On the other hand, I am glad that the Duggars are currently off air and might be taken permanently off air.  I absolutely did not want it to happen the way it did.  I wish it could have been because Ma and Pa Duggar are so obviously despicable human beings who never should have been given a platform, let alone for nearly a decade.  I am glad that the dirty, nasty side of their belief system is finally being reported by the media because for years this same media ignored the Gothard cult of horror and instead 'reported' on how lovely and family-oriented these parents were and acted as though they were some sort of ideal model of family.  I'm upset that it has happened the way it did because no one wants the downfall of something to be based on something as horrible as sexual abuse.  But I'm also grateful that eyes are being opened because we should never have been rewarding and celebrating this family to begin with.  

[poopchute]

Anna is an absolute moron. If Josh really did confess this to her, like she says in the People statement, and she decided she still wanted to marry him and have children with him after he said "I molested five girls, four of my sisters, some while they were sleeping" then she is a fucking lunatic. What kind of person would marry someone after hearing that? So I have to assume that she couldn't have possibly really known that. It's too pathetic. So she's making this public statement that she knew and she's okay with it, which is so stupid and gross. If she stays with this man she is the stupidest person I've ever seen on television. And I watch Teen Mom so that's saying a lot. How can she stay with him and say "I love you" and let him put his disgusting penis inside of her ? I would throw up.

[AmandaPanda]

Well, the Duggars continue to draw us in.  People are posting like mad, all over the internet...... once TLC officially says bye-bye, some network is sure to want 'in' on the Duggars.  

I'm thinking that the E! Channel might eventually make them an offer they can't refuse, but then, the Kardashians  pretty much own E! and they would not allow it (I am not knocking the K's- I don't watch them, but at least 'they are who they are').

*Hallmark Channel?  Nah, the network is too wholesome.  

*UP?  Nah, the Bateses are already their mega family.

*TruTv?  Nah, the Duggars don't tell the truth.

*A & E (Arts & Entertainment)?  Nah, this network wouldn't want to hurt its reputation.

 

Just maybe......The BRAVO network????  Does anyone think there's a tv network out there that would film Josh after all of this?

Curious to know your thoughts.  Thanks. 

 

Bravo would never happen. Considering Andy Cohen is a major network executive and many people see Bravo as a gay lifestyle network, the Duggars would never go to them. In order to have any faith in humanity, I have to believe that they are network poison. However, I also know that humanity and network programming decisions rarely have anything to do with each other.