Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[Notabug]

On 11/25/2022 at 7:26 AM, ScorpioSoul said:

The appeal about the phone call. I agree with the prosecution. Taking a piece of evidence (even a cell phone) didn't take away his right to call a lawyer. I am sure he had access to an office phone or another person's cell phone. They didn't give him that one cell phone because they didn't want him to delete stuff off, clear his search history, or damage the phone.

According to the transcripts, he was also repeatedly asked if he wanted to continue to answer questions and he did.  He could have very easily just shut his yap after saying he wanted a lawyer and refused to answer any more questions until his lawyer was present.  That's what the sensible people do.  Josh obviously thought he was so much smarter than the feds that he'd simply talk his way out of the whole thing right there and chose not to wait for his attorney.  Bad idea.

[Scarlett45]

5 hours ago, estellasmum said:

I always wonder if it was because of the (totally deserved) negativity, or if it was because as a woman, she couldn't be trusted with social media on her own without her headship around. (The irony of that would just be too much.)

No, I think it was because she couldn’t deal with the criticism and negativity. (Not that I blame her). 

3 hours ago, Zella said:

My guess was always she got pissy about all of the negative attention and lack of sympathy for Josh and deleted it on her own. I personally don't think Josh controlled her social media usage, and she never posted anything that seemed like she wasn't touting the family line. 

Yeah I don’t think Josh cared what Anna did. I was surprised she kept up a public social media after the molestations and Ashley Madison were made public, but his conviction must’ve been the straw to break the camel’s back as far as social media responses went. 

[Minivanessa]

Bringing this over from the Lonely Js topic.

1 hour ago, satrunrose said:

This is only based on tabloid rumours, which I usually take with a grain of salt, but I wonder if Anna expected the siblings, especially the the lonely Js, to be fully committed to the Committee to Show Everyone They're Wrong about The Crumb Expert and the response has been a resounding "meh".

52 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

I’m sure she did. The fact that they didn’t was a big shock to her. I don’t know if and when that shock would wear off. 

Reading this, it really stood out to me that of the adults among that Duggar generation, Anna's almost certainly the only one who agrees with JB's and Meech's positive opinion of Josh. The kidult sibs and sibs-in-law may have attended the trial but as noted, nobody joined Anna in resounding public statements of support for Josh after the conviction. 

There's been discussion of how JB will be financially supporting Anna and her kids, and speculation about her possibly moving to Texas to be near the prison (and whether JB could or would subsidize that). Because Anna's position re Josh aligns so nicely with JB's, he could find it in his heart (and bank account) to underwrite her moving to Texas. However, JB's famously frugal, and as his own kids grow up there will be ever more space available in the TTH to house Anna and her kids. I wouldn't be surprised if JB's plan is that they will just be one big happy family there on the Duggar compound and Anna can just travel to Texas for her prison visits from there. After all, those lawyers have burned through a lot of Duggar money (and the appeal's still going on). I'm sure JB is aware of every dime that has cost, whether it came directly out of his pocket or some was derived from property owned by Josh. 

I don't think this adds much to the discussion. It's just that I'm kinda slow on the uptake, and don't remember thinking until now, about the situation in terms of how closely Anna's and JB's (and Meech's) positions on Josh must be aligned, especially in comparison to Josh's adult sibs.

As to the sibs who are still minors, I suspect the atmosphere in their home has been pretty bad at times over the last year and a half, poisoned by their oldest brother's criminal case and conviction. I hope someone (Jana? even Meech?) has managed to create a somewhat pleasant daily environment for them and Anna's kids too. Poor kids.

[SMama]

I can see Jana making things pleasant for the younger kids. Michelle was checked out way before the FF’s conviction. She never cared before about the welfare of her children, no way she starts now.

Edited December 8, 2022 by SMama

[Scarlett45]

2 hours ago, Jeeves said:

Reading this, it really stood out to me that of the adults among that Duggar generation, Anna's almost certainly the only one who agrees with JB's and Meech's positive opinion of Josh. The kidult sibs and sibs-in-law may have attended the trial but as noted, nobody joined Anna in resounding public statements of support for Josh after the conviction. 

I don’t think JB even has a positive opinion of Josh. Michelle I think is in deep denial, but I think JB knows the score. Josh is his son, and he loves him, and he will pay his legal bills but he doesn’t believe he is a great person and certainly doesn’t believe his innocence. 

[Salacious Kitty]

Last month, Anna evidently sold a piece of property she owned with a new build home for approximately $450k. Is that cash going to to pay legal bills or buy a house in Texas? 

[Zella]

2 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I don’t think JB even has a positive opinion of Josh. Michelle I think is in deep denial, but I think JB knows the score. Josh is his son, and he loves him, and he will pay his legal bills but he doesn’t believe he is a great person and certainly doesn’t believe his innocence. 

I was actually surprised how distant their statement about his conviction was. They didn't dispute his guilt. It was almost like they'd finally realized it was a lost cause to pretend he was innocent, so they were trying to tiptoe away from it all as much as possible. In that sense, I've never felt that Jim Bob or Michelle were particularly ardent in believing Josh was innocent after he was found guilty. I think Anna guzzles that Kool Aid on the daily.

[GeeGolly]

The way I see it is, JB&M saw the molestations as Josh was a young boy 'playing doctor' that went a little too far, but were thankful he stopped. Fast forward to defending Josh and themselves in regard to the molestations and the AM storying breaking. I think at that moment Michelle was done with Josh and 'left it up to God'. I think JB was more worried about the family's reputation than Josh 'cheating' on his wife. Fast forward again to the arrest. I think both JB&M wanted to believe whatever explanations Josh gave them, were truly worried about their son going to jail, and JB was worried again about the family's reputation. But in the end, they believed Josh was guilty. They were sad Josh was guilty. They worried about Josh managing jail. JB was also worried about his family's reputation and Michelle was praying for Josh's soul.

But Josh is still their son and they love Anna and the kids. But I think JB&M are done for the next ten years and Anna is not. JB&M know they have 10 years of Josh being contained so their lives are actually a bit easier. Anna is still a freaking mess and is likely on the phone with Josh's lawyers weekly. I can see JB&M being okay with Anna moving to TX, if for nothing else but to give themselves some out of sight, out of mind peace.

[Minivanessa]

I suspect JB&M were a bit less than truthful (a Duggar lying - imagine that!  🤣 🤣 🤣  ) in their statement. They may have conceded Josh's guilt "officially" for public consumption. But IIRC during the trial and its aftermath it was rumored that JB was pounding at all his kids to support Josh. JB was also rumored to be spouting off a belief that if he were imprisoned, Josh would be like St. Paul, preaching Jesus and saving souls in a Godly mission. Maybe they aren't as delusional as Anna about Josh's actions, but I see them as much closer to her on the subject than many/most of their adult kids (and said kids' spouses).

If Anna doesn't control enough money to move her family to Texas, I don't see JB wanting to pay for that. He's got that huge TTH sitting there, not to mention the warehouse on the compound. Might as well have Anna and her kids living there; I doubt it significantly increases his utility bills or property operating/maintenance costs. There's lots of room in the TTH itself these days, as it seems that even unmarried kidults have been moving out. I don't see JB thinking that removing Anna and her kids from the compound just to make life more pleasant for his other family members, is something worth paying for. 

Of course, JB may have had - or yet may have - an epiphany of some kind about Josh. Maybe he wakes up one morning and the delusions have shattered. Or there's a tipping point where he understands how many of his kids are OVER Josh, don't think he's being called by God to preach in prison, and think isn't worth all the grief and money he's cost the family -  and JB sees that he needs to heal his relationship with all those kids. But of course that would have to pierce his massive ego and patriarchal attitudes, and require him to question his own actions, so . . . hmm. This is the guy who, testifying from the witness chair under oath in a federal court, spouted "I won't allow that!" 

Edited December 7, 2022 by Jeeves
Grammar. It's a thing.

[Zella]

4 hours ago, Jeeves said:

They may have conceded Josh's guilt "officially" for public consumption.

That wouldn't surprise me. I think in that case, they could read the room better than Anna--or they had someone with PR experience who could read the room better advising them and they actually listened. 

[GeeGolly]

22 minutes ago, Zella said:

That wouldn't surprise me. I think in that case, they could read the room better than Anna--or they had someone with PR experience who could read the room better advising them and they actually listened. 

That would be a first, lol.

I think its more likely they believe he is guilty, however I'm guessing they look at Josh himself much differently than the public does and see his guilt differently as well.

We see a monster whose deviancy is lower than low. We are happy he is being punished and is behind bars. JB&M see their son as someone who made another egregious mistake and needs prayer. While I don't think they're happy he's in jail, I do think they're happy that he's out of their hair.

[Zella]

2 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

That would be a first, lol.

To be honest, I would be deeply shocked if Jim Bob "I wont allow that!" Duggar listened to anyone. LOLOL

[ozziemom]

3 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

That would be a first, lol.

I think its more likely they believe he is guilty, however I'm guessing they look at Josh himself much differently than the public does and see his guilt differently as well.

We see a monster whose deviancy is lower than low. We are happy he is being punished and is behind bars. JB&M see their son as someone who made another egregious mistake and needs prayer. While I don't think they're happy he's in jail, I do think they're happy that he's out of their hair.

Plus they believe one sin is as bad as any other so once Jesus forgave FF, he’s good to go.

[GeeGolly]

27 minutes ago, ozziemom said:

Plus they believe one sin is as bad as any other so once Jesus forgave FF, he’s good to go.

I know that is part of the Fundy schtick, but I don't believe they believe that. They certainly know stealing is worse than lying and murder is worse than stealing. They believe in the criminal justice system and they know the punishment for speeding is different than drunk driving, etc.

[Dehumidifier]

17 hours ago, Salacious Kitty said:

Last month, Anna evidently sold a piece of property she owned with a new build home for approximately $450k. Is that cash going to to pay legal bills or buy a house in Texas? 

The sale price isn't necessarily the net to the seller.

[Salacious Kitty]

6 minutes ago, Dehumidifier said:

The sale price isn't necessarily the net to the seller.

No, but she still made a pretty nice pile of cash after everyone else gets their cut. It's also her last piece of land, allegedly, aside for one with a prefab home on it. 

I do wonder if it was made clear to Anna that the bank of Boob was now closed, and that the appeals would be on her. 

There's probably not enough to buy a house in the Dallas metro area, so I've decided that she is financing FF's court dates.

[Dehumidifier]

25 minutes ago, Salacious Kitty said:

No, but she still made a pretty nice pile of cash after everyone else gets their cut. It's also her last piece of land, allegedly, aside for one with a prefab home on it. 

I do wonder if it was made clear to Anna that the bank of Boob was now closed, and that the appeals would be on her. 

There's probably not enough to buy a house in the Dallas metro area, so I've decided that she is financing FF's court dates.

How do you know how much she netted? Is that published in Arkansas?

How would they have a property worth that much fully paid for?

[Salacious Kitty]

Just now, Dehumidifier said:

How do you know how much she netted? Is that published in Arkansas?

How would they have a property worth that much fully paid for?

I don't know how much Anna netted, but given the entire thing was a Duggar enterprise, expenses were low, and Joe probably took a cut rate for selling the place for Dear Sweet Anna. He's one that I see as still in her corner. 

I'd guess she saw $200k free and clear. Maybe even a little more.

[merylinkid]

Assuming the place was mortgage free, the only cut would be the seller's fees which are about 6%.   So she probably netted a nice chunk of change.   

However, did SHE sell it, or did the LLC which is really controlled by JB and his stooge sell it?  We know the LLCs are just shells for JB to move money around.   I doubt Anna herself has been given control of that much money.   That's get yourself the hell away from this family and cushion while you establish yourself money.

[crazy8s]

Anna' s ALB Investments Llc owned just the vacant lot, not any actual house built on it. I doubt Anna (ALB investments llc), Jase (BuildMaster Construction llc), James, who cleared the lot ( J and J Services llc) , Joe who sold the house (Duggar Realty Llc) shared much of a cut. I do believe it is all rolled into the grand scheme of JB's Duggar enterprise.

[Salacious Kitty]

It was said that Anna has divested herself of all but one of her LLCs. Is this true? 

[louannems]

2 hours ago, Salacious Kitty said:

I don't know how much Anna netted, but given the entire thing was a Duggar enterprise, expenses were low, and Joe probably took a cut rate for selling the place for Dear Sweet Anna. He's one that I see as still in her corner. 

I'd guess she saw $200k free and clear. Maybe even a little more.

We just closed on our townhouse for $450, the same price Anna’s sold for.  Ours was paid off 10 years ago and we cleared $417.  Did you know in my county it costs $7,500 to transfer and record the deed?

[Salacious Kitty]

1 hour ago, louannems said:

We just closed on our townhouse for $450, the same price Anna’s sold for.  Ours was paid off 10 years ago and we cleared $417.  Did you know in my county it costs $7,500 to transfer and record the deed?

I think Anna cleared less because a house was built (presumably by Jason) on the land. He had to get paid for time and materials. 

[crazy8s]

3 hours ago, Salacious Kitty said:

It was said that Anna has divested herself of all but one of her LLCs. Is this true? 

Anna has at least 3

ALB investments, Homefield Properties, Glasgow Drive - 5 others were dissolved. 

Edited December 8, 2022 by crazy8s

[CalicoKitty]

I think "Anna's" LLC sale was JB moving money.  I think it was said before that two signatures are needed to sell anything in their LLCs, and JB or his local lawyer (forget his name) must be one of the signers.  I don't think she has any control over what is sold when.  The Umbrella has all the control, and she is now under JB's umbrella.

[Salacious Kitty]

48 minutes ago, CalicoKitty said:

I think "Anna's" LLC sale was JB moving money.  I think it was said before that two signatures are needed to sell anything in their LLCs, and JB or his local lawyer (forget his name) must be one of the signers.  I don't think she has any control over what is sold when.  The Umbrella has all the control, and she is now under JB's umbrella.

The lawyer is jack of all areas of practice Travis Story. And if Anna's name is on the LLC, I imagine she has to sign off on any transactions with Story. 

But yes, it's anyone's best guess how much control she has over the actual cash flow. 

[crazy8s]

All of Anna's llcs used to have a financial company listed, Western Ridge Financial llc. I am assuming it is owned by a sweet friend of JBs.  Now only one has that company. One just her and one Anna and Travis Story. Most all the Duggar llcs have Jimmy Burns listed as the accountant. Deanna's also has Jimmy Burns listed.

[MMEButterfly]

On 11/24/2022 at 4:52 AM, Gemma Violet said:

Here's what Josh is having for his Thanksgiving meal:

https://www.tmz.com/2022/11/24/celebrity-prisoners-thanksgiving-feast-meal-josh-duggar-fetty-wap-r-kelly/

I bet Maxwell will love her collards. 

[SJC]

On 10/25/2022 at 3:40 PM, GeeGolly said:

Priss & Pecan

LOL !! 🤣

[Salacious Kitty]

7 hours ago, crazy8s said:

All of Anna's llcs used to have a financial company listed, Western Ridge Financial llc. I am assuming it is owned by a sweet friend of JBs.  Now only one has that company. One just her and one Anna and Travis Story. Most all the Duggar llcs have Jimmy Burns listed as the accountant. Deanna's also has Jimmy Burns listed.

Oh, I forgot about Jimmy Burns. Thanks! 

[Salacious Kitty]

Happy anniversary! Today marks one year since FF was found guilty and thrown in the slammer. 

[Scarlett45]

58 minutes ago, Salacious Kitty said:

Happy anniversary! Today marks one year since FF was found guilty and thrown in the slammer. 

Wow. It has been a full year. 

[Gemma Violet]

According to TMZ, the Christmas menu at Seagoville is:

Herbed Cornish hen, glazed ham, veggie stuffed peppers, veggie lasagna, broccoli cheese & rice casserole, mashed potatoes, chicken gravy, corn on the cob, cranberry sauce, rolls and holiday pies

[kaleidoscope]

I wonder if Anna is in Texas visiting?  Pickles is reporting that Anna and the kids have moved into the big house.  That would certainly free Anna up to travel if it is true.  Jana and the lost girls would be in charge of the Ms.

[madpsych78]

I am still reminded of how Josh is not that far from me in the grand scheme of things (even though it's still probably about an hour away). I saw that one of my upcoming patients has a residence in Seagoville (not the prison, just the city).

8 hours ago, Gemma Violet said:

According to TMZ, the Christmas menu at Seagoville is:

Herbed Cornish hen, glazed ham, veggie stuffed peppers, veggie lasagna, broccoli cheese & rice casserole, mashed potatoes, chicken gravy, corn on the cob, cranberry sauce, rolls and holiday pies

That actually sounds like a pretty good menu on paper. Of course it will depend on how well they cook the food there. 

[ChristmasCandy]

6 hours ago, kaleidoscope said:

I wonder if Anna is in Texas visiting?  Pickles is reporting that Anna and the kids have moved into the big house.  That would certainly free Anna up to travel if it is true.  Jana and the lost girls would be in charge of the Ms.

You mean that Pickles is still around?

[Quilt Fairy]

19 hours ago, Gemma Violet said:

Herbed Cornish hen

I can't even find Cornish hen in my local grocery store, and I've been hankering for one. 

[Salacious Kitty]

Pickles is reporting that Anna and the kids have moved into the Big House. I guess there's room now, but oh how the mighty have fallen. 

[CalicoKitty]

So are Anna and her daughters in the girl's dorm?  And the sons in the boy's dorm?

[ozziemom]

53 minutes ago, CalicoKitty said:

So are Anna and her daughters in the girl's dorm?  And the sons in the boy's dorm?

If they are really at the Big House, not sure what other rooms they could be in. Maybe one of the Howler construction crew made partitions somewhere? It always seemed like the oddest configuration of rooms at TTH, but you know, the Duggars do things a little bit different.

[Salacious Kitty]

56 minutes ago, CalicoKitty said:

So are Anna and her daughters in the girl's dorm?  And the sons in the boy's dorm?

I wonder if Anna got the downstairs bedroom and left her girls in the dorm? But her youngest is just a year, so still in a crib. Maybe she does sleep in the girls' dorm. As far as we know, 30-something Jana is still there.

[sagittarius sue]

1 hour ago, Salacious Kitty said:

As far as we know, 30-something Jana is still there.

I remember reading something about Jana being offered her own bedroom, but choosing to remain in the dorm so I imagine there must be at least one private bedroom.

[GeeGolly]

Anna did live in the dorm for 6 months while Josh was at Jesus camp.

I wonder if getting Grandma Mary's old suite comes with laundry duty.

[Salacious Kitty]

14 minutes ago, sagittarius sue said:

I remember reading something about Jana being offered her own bedroom, but choosing to remain in the dorm so I imagine there must be at least one private bedroom.

There's a private bedroom downstairs. Mary lived there with JL when he was sick. Remember the broken office chair? They were living there when that was filmed.

[FizzyPuff]

2 hours ago, Salacious Kitty said:

There's a private bedroom downstairs. Mary lived there with JL when he was sick. Remember the broken office chair? They were living there when that was filmed.

JB and Mechelle have a private room, perhaps those two should sleep in the dorm rooms, JB with the boys, M with the girls, it’s what they deserve 😈

[Future Cat Lady]

If Anna has indeed moved into the main house, JB has ensure that she doesn't leave. There is no reason why she can't stay in the warehouse by herself. JB could've let her stay there for free or a low rent. The building is on his property. He can't rent it to strangers.

I know she has no income, but JB could employ her to do chores for him.

Anna staying at the house means JB controls who has access to her and who she talks to.

[libgirl2]

1 minute ago, Future Cat Lady said:

If Anna has indeed moved into the main house, JB has ensure that she doesn't leave. There is no reason why she can't stay in the warehouse by herself. JB could've let her stay there for free or a low rent. The building is on his property. He can't rent it to strangers.

I know she has no income, but JB could employ her to do chores for him.

Anna staying at the house means JB controls who has access to her and who she talks to.

She can't stay alone, she is a female. 

[merylinkid]

22 minutes ago, Future Cat Lady said:

JB controls who has access to her and who she talks to.

YEP.   No tell alls or anything that doesn't fit the narrative.   Not that I think she is about to break out and doing something crazy like admit Josh is guilty.   She seems pretty stuck on the Stand By Your Man and waiting for him to get out.  

[Scarlett45]

31 minutes ago, Future Cat Lady said:

If Anna has indeed moved into the main house, JB has ensure that she doesn't leave. There is no reason why she can't stay in the warehouse by herself. JB could've let her stay there for free or a low rent. The building is on his property. He can't rent it to strangers.

I know she has no income, but JB could employ her to do chores for him.

Anna staying at the house means JB controls who has access to her and who she talks to.

I don’t think Anna was ever going anywhere, but as @libgirl2 pointed out, she’s female she can’t stay alone, also I do think the TTH is probably more comfortable. JB probably has her homeschooling Tyler, Jennifer, Jordyn and Josie as well as taking some chores off Jana’s plate. 

[satrunrose]

Also, wild speculation here, but the kind of crimes FF committed may have resulted in some official people asking some questions about how the Ms were being cared for (plus the speculation that it was an M who got loose under Jana's care). There may have been some concerns raised about the suitability of a warehouse in terms of fire code etc.