Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[winsomeone]

When is Josh to be sentenced? I thought the end of January, but must have been wrong.

[Churchhoney]

22 minutes ago, winsomeone said:

When is Josh to be sentenced? I thought the end of January, but must have been wrong.

I think the estimate I heard at the trial's end in mid-December  was that it would be about four months before the sentencing.....

There's a lot of paperwork and deliberation that goes into sentencing decisions -- more back and forth between the sides....convicted people themselves have an opportunity to submit stuff....plus the immense Covid court backup is still around and farily intense, I'd guess.. 

 

Edited February 11, 2022 by Churchhoney

[Minivanessa]

56 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

I think the estimate I heard at the trial's end in mid-December  was that it would be about four months before the sentencing.....

There's a lot of paperwork and deliberation that goes into sentencing decisions -- more back and forth between the sides....convicted people themselves have an opportunity to submit stuff....plus the immense Covid court backup is still around and farily intense, I'd guess.. 

I just looked at the case docket on Court Listener. There's no entry yet that sets the date for the sentencing hearing. 

We've noted here in our discussions that on January 19 the defense filed a post-trial Motion for Judgment of Acquittal or, in the Alternative, Motion for New Trial, a routine type of motion which is necessary to preserve the defendant's appeal rights. The prosecution's response to that is due to be filed today. 

[quarks]

Link to the government response to the motion for judgment of acquittal or new trial. I haven't read it yet, but I'm assuming that the usual cautions that this is about Josh Duggar and may therefore be enraging/disturbing/sickening still apply:

https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/59871253/134/united-states-v-duggar/

Edited February 11, 2022 by quarks

[Scout Finch]

13 hours ago, quarks said:

Link to the government response to the motion for judgment of acquittal or new trial. I haven't read it yet, but I'm assuming that the usual cautions that this is about Josh Duggar and may therefore be enraging/disturbing/sickening still apply:

https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/59871253/134/united-states-v-duggar/

"The defendant, for his part, claimed that someone else did it but his attempts to scapegoat others collapsed under the mildest scrutiny."

FYI, there's no details about what was in the videos or photos, just that the materials found were CSA so it shouldn't be as triggering. The prosecution masterfully takes apart every one of the reasons for the appeal!

 

Edited February 12, 2022 by Scout Finch

[Zella]

1 hour ago, Scout Finch said:

"The defendant, for his part, claimed that someone else did it but his attempts to scapegoat others collapsed under the mildest scrutiny."

Goddamn that is so quietly savage, and I'm here for it. LMAO 

[JustRosie]

Do we think Josh is bored and lonely in there, or is he enjoying sleeping all day?

[crazycatlady58]

45 minutes ago, Namaste said:

Do we think Josh is bored and lonely in there, or is he enjoying sleeping all day?

I think is is bored,  lonely, sacred and angry all at the same time.

[SJC]

On 2/8/2022 at 10:07 PM, CalicoKitty said:

I just got a new router today.  I hope it behaves itself.

I have had the same router for a lonnnnnng time. Oh, all the sin & degradation that has built up in it !! 😱

[Nysha]

After reading all the post trial legal documents I'm beginning to think Perry Mason did not accurately depict court room behavior. Damn Duggars, another childhood memory ripped to shreds! 😁

[sagittarius sue]

5 hours ago, Zella said:

Goddamn that is so quietly savage, and I'm here for it. LMAO 

I have read the first five pages with considerable enjoyment.  It's getting late so I'll read the rest of it tomorrow.

[emmawoodhouse]

I skimmed it. It's so snarky, making Smuggar's team look totally inept. They took several jobs at the "expert" witness, Ms. Router. 😂

[Cinnabon]

Who thinks Anna actually read it? Or understood it even if she tried?

[madpsych78]

I don't know why I'm thinking so much about Caleb's statement that Jed! had a fake account.

[SMama]

11 minutes ago, Rootbeer said:

Wouldn't it have to be someone who appeared in the images he downloaded?

That makes sense, but weird things happen with this crowd. I certainly didn’t have Paul Ryan knew the felon’s password on my bingo card. 

[YupItsMe]

Josh will be sentenced on April 5th.

https://www.nwahomepage.com/josh-duggar-trial/sentencing-date-set-for-josh-duggar/

[Rabbittron]

8 minutes ago, YupItsMe said:

Josh will be sentenced on April 5th.

https://www.nwahomepage.com/josh-duggar-trial/sentencing-date-set-for-josh-duggar/

That day can't come soon enough. 

[MamaMax]

 

On 2/4/2022 at 10:06 AM, SMama said:

Anna is setting herself up for a lot of discord with the members of the family that is literally the hand that feeds her and her seven children. J&A, J&D, and J&J posted their agreement of the FF’s just conviction. That is going to cause tension. J&D do not partake in events at the TTH. J&J live in CA, and that distance is a blessing to them. Joy and Austin are going to be in a difficult position at any family gatherings. I wonder how JB and Michelle are going to navigate this minefield.

Badly

[galaxygirl76]

42 minutes ago, Rabbittron said:

That day can't come soon enough. 

Time for Anna to dust off the boob zipper dress.

[SMama]

I wonder if Anna will even attend the sentencing hearing. She can no longer hold the FF’s hand and show her smug face during her entrance to the courthouse. Will JB be there to object to the sentence? 

[Rabbittron]

6 minutes ago, SMama said:

I wonder if Anna will even attend the sentencing hearing. She can no longer hold the FF’s hand and show her smug face during her entrance to the courthouse. Will JB be there to object to the sentence? 

Of course he will be there he has to ask the judge if he accepts the sentence because he doesn't  .

[GeeGolly]

I'm not sure if any of you are aware of a male cheerleader, Jerry, from the docuseries Cheer. He was charged with sex crimes involving minor(s), pled guilty and will be sentenced in June. He actually was face to face with his victim(s). It will be interesting, to me anyway, to see how Josh's sentence compares to Jerry's.

 

[lookeyloo]

7 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I'm not sure if any of you are aware of a male cheerleader, Jerry, from the docuseries Cheer. He was charged with sex crimes involving minor(s), pled guilty and will be sentenced in June. He actually was face to face with his victim(s). It will be interesting, to me anyway, to see how Josh's sentence compares to Jerry's.

 

We watched Cheer and were sad to learn of Jerry’s crimes. But crimes they are. 

[GeeGolly]

4 minutes ago, lookeyloo said:

We watched Cheer and were sad to learn of Jerry’s crimes. But crimes they are. 

I haven't watched the second season, but I did watch the first. Never would have guessed Jerry would do such a thing. Part of me thinks it was done in sheer ignorance with no ill intent, but then again we don't know what he actually said or did, and the kids were minors, and we don't really know Jerry. Also, like you said he behaved criminally. 

[lookeyloo]

6 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I haven't watched the second season, but I did watch the first. Never would have guessed Jerry would do such a thing. Part of me thinks it was done in sheer ignorance with no ill intent, but then again we don't know what he actually said or did, and the kids were minors, and we don't really know Jerry. Also, like you said he behaved criminally. 

It surprised and disappointed us and agree that we don’t know. So many complicated reason why he would have pled guilty. He is guilty. He is either innocent or guilty but can’t afford lawyers and the appointed ones suggested pleading.  Sad for all concerned. 

[Rabbittron]

1 hour ago, SMama said:

I wonder if Anna will even attend the sentencing hearing. She can no longer hold the FF’s hand and show her smug face during her entrance to the courthouse. Will JB be there to object to the sentence? 

SmugAnna will be there she has to show the judge she is the Godliest wife there is and it's safe to send Smuggar home with her. 

[FizzyPuff]

3 hours ago, Rabbittron said:

Of course he will be there he has to ask the judge if he accepts the sentence because he doesn't  .

Gosh JB is so stupid but I’m glad he is, only he would say that to a judge 😂

[Scarlett45]

Do NOT speculate on the identity of Josh’s victims. If an adult comes forward identifying themselves, and makes a public statement, that is fair game to discuss. 
 

Further speculation will result in warnings. 

[awaken]

7 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I'm not sure if any of you are aware of a male cheerleader, Jerry, from the docuseries Cheer. He was charged with sex crimes involving minor(s), pled guilty and will be sentenced in June. He actually was face to face with his victim(s). It will be interesting, to me anyway, to see how Josh's sentence compares to Jerry's.

 

That whole thing was just awful, terrible to watch and learn what happened. 

[Tigregirl]

There’s a video on the Fundie Wonderland FB page of the Reber Keller wedding. Felon is there, along with children that aren’t his.  Do you think he got permission to be there, or was stupid enough to go, knowing he wasn’t supposed to be around any minors but his own?  Wonder if the sentencing judge knows about that.

[emmawoodhouse]

37 minutes ago, Tigregirl said:

There’s a video on the Fundie Wonderland FB page of the Reber Keller wedding. Felon is there, along with children that aren’t his.  Do you think he got permission to be there, or was stupid enough to go, knowing he wasn’t supposed to be around any minors but his own?  Wonder if the sentencing judge knows about that.

I know that KJ has emailed the court with the video attached.

[Nysha]

He had an ankle monitor on, so if he had gone without permission I'm sure he would have been arrested and jailed until the trial. Why would anyone let their child be anywhere near him is beyond me.

[GeeGolly]

I think maybe the judge was notified shortly after the wedding or was reading snark sites. I got the impression in reading a published statement from the judge, about Josh being a good pre-trial boy and following all the rules, that all of us speculators were included in the intended audience of the message.

In hindsight, I'm guessing the judge felt there was more than a strong possibility Josh was going to be found guilty and felt there was little risk to the public to allow this totally clueless, immature and somewhat sheltered man to remain totally clueless, immature and sheltered for a few months longer.

[StaceyNotStacie]

On 2/15/2022 at 2:10 PM, SMama said:

I wonder if Anna will even attend the sentencing hearing. She can no longer hold the FF’s hand and show her smug face during her entrance to the courthouse. Will JB be there to object to the sentence? 

I really hope that once he is sentenced and out of sight, out of mind for the rest of the family that the Duggars as a whole read Anna the riot act. Let her know that while she’s welcome to stay with the family, but they’re not going to raise her kids and be their primary caregivers and that she needs to pull her weight. She really needs a good smack  (verbally not physically) upside the head with a good dose of reality. 

[GeeGolly]

11 minutes ago, Stacey1014 said:

I really hope that once he is sentenced and out of sight, out of mind for the rest of the family that the Duggars as a whole read Anna the riot act. Let her know that while she’s welcome to stay with the family, but they’re not going to raise her kids and be their primary caregivers and that she needs to pull her weight. She really needs a good smack  (verbally not physically) upside the head with a good dose of reality. 

I don't get this. Why is it thought Anna is not taking care of her own kids? Or that she's not pulling her own weight? My guess is its quite the opposite. I'm guessing Anna is homeschooling and feeding Jenny, Jordyn and Josie while raising her own 7.

[SMama]

11 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I don't get this. Why is it thought Anna is not taking care of her own kids? Or that she's not pulling her own weight? My guess is its quite the opposite. I'm guessing Anna is homeschooling and feeding Jenny, Jordyn and Josie while raising her own 7.

Probably because although she had seven kids, one of them nursing, she could spend full days at the courthouse. The argument could be made that she needed to be there for optics.

There were reports Anna was spending the bulk of her time with the FF pre and during trial. If true that would leave very little time for her children. Add Jana’s nap and subsequent charge, that people thought it was an M kid. Add speculation and tabloid fodder and you get Anna abandoned her kids.

I don’t doubt Anna spent as much time as possible with the FF. How much, we will never know. I thought Ben was the TTH tutor. Jenni outed him during Jeremy’s podcast. 

[GeeGolly]

17 minutes ago, SMama said:

Probably because although she had seven kids, one of them nursing, she could spend full days at the courthouse. The argument could be made that she needed to be there for optics.

There were reports Anna was spending the bulk of her time with the FF pre and during trial. If true that would leave very little time for her children. Add Jana’s nap and subsequent charge, that people thought it was an M kid. Add speculation and tabloid fodder and you get Anna abandoned her kids.

I don’t doubt Anna spent as much time as possible with the FF. How much, we will never know. I thought Ben was the TTH tutor. Jenni outed him during Jeremy’s podcast. 

Ben tutoring the kids was a couple of years ago, prior to him getting his preacher gig, so do we know he's still doing it? I didn't know Anna was actually seen with Josh all the time, without the kids, during his stay at the Rebers, I thought it was all speculation. Optics or no optics, I certainly don't think we can speculate because a wife attended a trial she doesn't raise her own kids or pull her own weight.

I mean I went away for 4 days when my kids were preschoolers and my kids also slept at their grandparents' and aunt's house a few times a year. But out of 365 days a year they were with me at least 355 of them and I was responsible for them 365.

Don't get me wrong, I'm no Anna fan, but I get itchy when speculation turns into fact.

[Rabbittron]

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

I don't get this. Why is it thought Anna is not taking care of her own kids? Or that she's not pulling her own weight? My guess is its quite the opposite. I'm guessing Anna is homeschooling and feeding Jenny, Jordyn and Josie while raising her own 7.

Why should she pull her weight and raise her kids after all she is Queen Duggar married to King Duggar and has servants to do the work for her. 

[Lindsay Loo Hoo]

I was out eating at olive garden other day, swore josh was at table next to me, looked just like him....i couldnt keep my eyes off of him, i was...STARSTRUCK!!!!!...*rolls eyes* ( i really just wanted the breadsticks on their table as mine had been polished off)

[GeeGolly]

34 minutes ago, Rabbittron said:

Why should she pull her weight and raise her kids after all she is Queen Duggar married to King Duggar and has servants to do the work for her. 

Huh, I don't think that's the way it worked. Michelle could barely tolerate Anna's presence in the beginning and the sisters took time to warm up too. Anna called Michelle Mrs Duggar for at least the first two years. She entered the family like every other sister inlaw and was pretty much ignored. The only one that treated Josh as special after the molestations was Josh - his king days ended then.

[Natalie68]

14 hours ago, Tigregirl said:

There’s a video on the Fundie Wonderland FB page of the Reber Keller wedding. Felon is there, along with children that aren’t his.  Do you think he got permission to be there, or was stupid enough to go, knowing he wasn’t supposed to be around any minors but his own?  Wonder if the sentencing judge knows about that.

If it was allowed that was effed up.

[SMama]

3 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Don't get me wrong, I'm no Anna fan, but I get itchy when speculation turns into fact.

That was my point.

[MargeGunderson]

It is all speculation, but it wouldn’t surprise me if reports of Anna handing off her kids on the regular to visit Josh at the Reber’s were true. We’ve heard them say that a women’s duty is to God first, their spouse second, and their children third. In Anna’s world, Josh’s needs come before her children’s. Even if he is a convicted sex offender.

[Cinnabon]

8 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I don't get this. Why is it thought Anna is not taking care of her own kids? Or that she's not pulling her own weight? My guess is its quite the opposite. I'm guessing Anna is homeschooling and feeding Jenny, Jordyn and Josie while raising her own 7.

She was hiding that teen girl who was “helping her” for a long time. My grandmother was forced by her parents to be a wealthy family’s maid because they needed the money . She was only 14. Anna seemed to be using that young girl as unpaid help. 

[SMama]

5 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

She was hiding that teen girl who was “helping her” for a long time. My grandmother was forced by her parents to be a wealthy family’s maid because they needed the money . She was only 14. Anna seemed to be using that young girl as unpaid help. 

Yes, that was Cousin Emily. Let’s face it, fundies love to breed for Jesus, but foist the real work on others.

I recall a video Jana and 2-3 (?) Duggars made for Anna’s birthday while the FF was in Jesus Jail. Jana’s contribution was that Anna would “volunteer” for tasks no one wanted like cleaning the TTH toilets. Jana’s affect was flat, and what an odd birthday sentiment.

Since Anna did go through a separation from the FF back then it would not surprise me if she took advantage of spending every second with him this time.

@GeeGolly, could you help with anecdotes about the Duggars’ cool reception of Anna? I remember Anna addressing Michele as Mrs., but that is it for me.

[GeeGolly]

32 minutes ago, SMama said:

Yes, that was Cousin Emily. Let’s face it, fundies love to breed for Jesus, but foist the real work on others.

I recall a video Jana and 2-3 (?) Duggars made for Anna’s birthday while the FF was in Jesus Jail. Jana’s contribution was that Anna would “volunteer” for tasks no one wanted like cleaning the TTH toilets. Jana’s affect was flat, and what an odd birthday sentiment.

Since Anna did go through a separation from the FF back then it would not surprise me if she took advantage of spending every second with him this time.

@GeeGolly, could you help with anecdotes about the Duggars’ cool reception of Anna? I remember Anna addressing Michele as Mrs., but that is it for me.

Much of it was in body language and brief interactions on the show. Anna looking down and away, Anna being quiet. Michelle ignoring her, being cold toward her. Jessa laughing snarkily at Anna and rolling her eyes in frustration at Anna.

Of two I remember distinctively, one happened on a Today Show interview and the other was the last episode of 19 Kids. But what confirmed my thoughts, to me anyway, was two other things. One was the way Anna behaved in front of the cameras in DC when there were no Duggars around - more confident, happy and forthcoming. The other is the couple of times Anna talked about Grandma Mary - if you read between the lines, Anna was digging at Michelle and the sisters as much as singing the praises of Mary's love, acceptance and support.

And one more thing which is unrelated to Anna and more about Michelle. Lauren had the balls to call out Michelle's lack of support when she miscarried Asa. I felt it was representative of how Michelle 'welcomes' her DsIL into the family.

[Rabbittron]

I wonder if Josh will be able to return to the warehouse after prison because of the SOTDRT is there and registered sex offenders have to live at least 1000 feet away from a school. 

[CrazyInAlabama]

Not only will he be limited (according to the various laws about registries, in my state it would be 2,000 ft. from a school, or daycare) where he can live because of schools, but depending on the rules, he might not be able to live with minors, or be near them either.   Even his own kids will be limited access if that's the rule he has to follow.  

I'm hoping at sentencing the judge gives him every bit of time he can, and Josh gets assigned to a prison very far away from Arkansas.     I'm sure there will be appeals for a long time to come, but I'm hoping they keep him in jail for the entire time.   I doubt Anna will ever accept what she's married to. 

[ginger90]

15 minutes ago, Rabbittron said:

I wonder if Josh will be able to return to the warehouse after prison because of the SOTDRT is there and registered sex offenders have to live at least 1000 feet away from a school. 

That depends what level is assigned to him. He may very well be able to. If he’s level 1 or 2, from what I’ve read, he wouldn’t have that restriction. Level 3 sex offenders are deemed high-risk offenders, and level 4 offenders  are deemed sexually dangerous.

Edited February 18, 2022 by ginger90

[quickjessie]

39 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

That depends what level is assigned to him. He may very well be able to. If he’s level 1 or 2, from what I’ve read, he wouldn’t have that restriction. Level 3 sex offenders are deemed high-risk offenders, and level 4 offenders  are deemed sexually dangerous.

I would certainly consider him a level 3.  He started young and never quit.  Seems addicted to porn and his addiction finally led him to where he is now.  This guy is never going to quit and has an obvious lack of impulse control.  The fact he couldn't resist downloading this stuff where he could have easily been caught in the act tells me all I need to know about his non-ability to stop.