Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[Cinnabon]

Just now, Sile said:

Lil BUB!!

As much shit is in this life due to human trash like Duggar, seeing BUB always restores my faith in the universe!  I think a few days ago was the 1 year anniversary of her leaving this plane of existence.

2 years ago 😥.

[absnow54]

Oh man, did Duggarssnark crash reddit?

[Lindsay Loo Hoo]

Defense attorney Gelfand's fifth reason was the immediate deletion of one of the files.

He noted that the 33-minute video of child sexual abuse in question was sent to the trash 29 seconds in and deleted.

Gelfand said not all of the files were in the trash or computer and that Michele Bush claimed they were moved by remote access. "The forensic trail clearly answers that," Gelfand told jurors.

Finally, Gelfand had a sixth reason for the jurors.

Over a five-year period, he noted, on Josh Duggar's iPhone and Macbook, there was no forensic trace of child sexual abuse material being downloaded or viewed.

He noted that Fottrell said it could have been wiped clean, but there was no forensic evidence of that.

[hathorlive]

9 minutes ago, Lindsay Loo Hoo said:

"Why don't we have the router?" he asked, claiming that the government did nothing to consider remote access.

Gelfand said both experts agreed to the possibility of remote access and that the prosecution didn't mention the forensic data in their closing argument.

Gah.  This is why you always document the router settings.  And show screenshots that the router contains settings but no data. And it certainly does NOT capture data moving through it.  

At least I'll never forgot to document the router on site again.  It's always router, router, router.

1 minute ago, Lindsay Loo Hoo said:

Defense attorney Gelfand's fifth reason was the immediate deletion of one of the files.

He noted that the 33-minute video of child sexual abuse in question was sent to the trash 29 seconds in and deleted.

Gelfand said not all of the files were in the trash or computer and that Michele Bush claimed they were moved by remote access. "The forensic trail clearly answers that," Gelfand told jurors.

Finally, Gelfand had a sixth reason for the jurors.

Over a five-year period, he noted, on Josh Duggar's iPhone and Macbook, there was no forensic trace of child sexual abuse material being downloaded or viewed.

He noted that Fottrell said it could have been wiped clean, but there was no forensic evidence of that.

Dear god, I want to die and come back as a defense attorney so I don't ever have to worry about facts getting in my way.

Edited December 8, 2021 by hathorlive

[Sile]

1 minute ago, Cinnabon said:

2 years ago 😥.

Ugh, I guess I just didn't want to think that we've been without her for that long.

The closing arguments, thanks @Lindsay Loo Hoo, kind of make me nervous.  Most of us (I would hope) know it's complete bullshit being thrown against the wall, but you never know who is on the jury.

On the other hand, if it's hung then that's another trials worth of cash out of JB's pocket.

[Lindsay Loo Hoo]

7 minutes ago, Jeanne222 said:

Thank you so much for all the trial data!

I've enjoyed doing it all for you. Now lets pray for a guilty verdict!

Gelfand continued, saying there was no reason for someone with access to the HP to stream videos instead of double-clicking on them.

He said the Linux logs were written over because Homeland Security Investigations waited six months.

Gelfand then claimed that Fottrell lied, noting the software he asked about and whether it was plugged into the internet didn't exist in 2019.

He added that the government played disturbing images and videos that didn't come off the device but from a thumb drive from Washington, DC, from other cases.

Gelfand then brought up that the government tried to pass off Tor as a bad thing, but it had been on the Macbook since 2017 and nothing bad was done with it.

[zoomama]

1 minute ago, Sile said:

Ugh, I guess I just didn't want to think that we've been without her for that long.

 

who are we talking about here?

 

[hathorlive]

Quote

He claimed that activity was inconsistent with Duggar and made no sense.

You mean the guy that likes to also molest little girls in his free time? 

[merylinkid]

3 minutes ago, Lindsay Loo Hoo said:

He added that the government played disturbing images and videos that didn't come off the device but from a thumb drive from Washington, DC, from other cases.

Then I PRESUME he objected at the time.   Rather than wait to point it out at closing.   

[hathorlive]

3 minutes ago, Lindsay Loo Hoo said:

He added that the government played disturbing images and videos that didn't come off the device but from a thumb drive from Washington, DC, from other cases.

I'm shocked this didn't get an objection.  He's out right calling them liars who manipulated evidence.  And yes, I've witnessed a closing argument be objected to, well at least in state court.

[Lindsay Loo Hoo]

Gelfand said the thumb drive with two documents and one Powerpoint was plugged into the HP computer and files were downloaded, but that there was no connection to Josh Duggar.

He also noted the Dell_One username, and said no Dell has been connected to Duggar. "Josh is a Mac guy," he said.

Gelfand then brought up uTorrent, Tor, VLC, and command lines, telling the jurors Bush said the Snap Store had no uTorrent option.

[Sile]

2 minutes ago, zoomama said:

who are we talking about here?

 

@monagatuna has Lil BUB as her avatar.  BUB was all that was sweet and good and wholesome in this world.

https://lilbub.com/

In other words, the complete opposite of (most of) the Duggar Clan.

[Churchhoney]

20 minutes ago, crazy8s said:

Seriously??

Gelfand spoke for the defense for approximately 90 minutes. He reiterated all the points the defense has been making throughout the trial. Gelfand said the investigator in the case ignored other possible suspects because “they were so star struck about the possibility of prosecuting Josh Duggar.”

“So blinded by that focus that they refused to look for anything else,” Gelfand said. “Everything is on the line, the stakes don’t get any higher, we ask that you find him not guilty.”

He also repeated the word "router" 250,000 times. 

[absnow54]

1 minute ago, Lindsay Loo Hoo said:

but that there was no connection to Josh Duggar.

Except for a file with his cousins name in it.

[Lindsay Loo Hoo]

Next, Gelfand noted that Josh Duggar used Transmission and BitTorrent on the Macbook from 2017 and that uTorrent was on the Linux.

He said someone decided to not use Transmission when Duggar knew how to use it.

Gelfand suggested next that the prosecution was starstruck, and that when they realized the house from the search warrant wasn't Josh Duggar's, they sent someone "laser-focused" on finding him at the car lot.

He said the government didn't look at anyone else and had "excuses for everything."

Starstruck, My Ass.

[cmr2014]

1 minute ago, hathorlive said:

Gah.  This is why you always document the router settings.  And show screenshots that the router contains settings but no data. And it certainly does NOT capture data moving through it.

I don't think that this has anything to do with "router settings" or what routers actually do. Routers have been very big in the conspiracy theory world for the past year.

The defense is trusting that there is at least one conspiracy theorist on the jury, or at least one person who has vaguely heard someone mention something about "tampering with routers" and is unwilling to convict without "all the router information."

I agree that screen shots might have helped, but I don't know if a conspiracy theorist wouldn't have just thought that there was "other information" that wasn't shown.

[Lindsay Loo Hoo]

Gelfand said the prosecution "dug up" allegations about Josh Duggar that were 20 years old when he was going through puberty, noting that Duggar went to his ex-girlfriend's mother to confess.

"That's not why we are here," he said.

 

 

Hormones don't make you touch a young girls, including a 5 year old. you sick bastard.

[ShowsILoveToHate]

I swear, if this is another Casey Anthony verdict, I’ll scream. 😡

[Scout Finch]

Isn't the prosecution supposed to do a second closing argument to rebut what the defense said in theirs?

[Lindsay Loo Hoo]

Just now, ShowsILoveToHate said:

I swear, if this is another Casey Anthony verdict, I’ll scream. 😡

You're not alone, till this day im still pissed over that. 

Just now, Scout Finch said:

Isn't the prosecution supposed to do a second closing argument to rebut what the defense said in theirs?

No the rebuttal comes after the defense rest their case, then the prosecution has a 2nd chance, then closing arguments.

[Tabbygirl521]

5 hours ago, lascuba said:

He's doing that hyperspecific thing where he's stating the facts without giving his feelings on it. He's saying that the defense didn't show reasonable doubt, not that he thinks Josh is guilty.

Today he tweeted that he’s praying for justice and I’m gonna gamble that it means he thinks and hopes Josh will be found guilty.

there are things I don’t care for about Derrick but I think he’s been just great this week. 

[Lindsay Loo Hoo]

Gelfand said the only piece of evidence the government brought forth from May 13 was a single photo, that that was their "smoking gun."

He then turned to the evidence from May 15, when Josh said he was at the car lot and a customer said he would be there in 10 minutes.

10 minutes later, Gelfand noted, the child sexual abuse material was downloaded.

He added that the customer was expected to show up at any moment when that occurred.

[crazy8s]

Just now, Scout Finch said:

Isn't the prosecution supposed to do a second closing argument to rebut what the defense said in theirs?

they did - the Sun updates are slow. Dustin Roberts of the prosecution spoke after Gelfand.  per KNWA Fox 24

[Annb67]

I’m worried about this. The jury has been gone longer than I thought they’d be

[RedDelicious]

1 minute ago, Lindsay Loo Hoo said:

He added that the customer was expected to show up at any moment when that occurred.

Therefore I myself would infer that in fact it was Josh at the car lot and Josh at the computer. Not that he should have any shame about a customer catching him with CSAM.

[absnow54]

1 minute ago, Lindsay Loo Hoo said:

He added that the customer was expected to show up at any moment when that occurred.

Ha! Like there was actually a customer. He obviously lied so he could wait for his download to finish. 

[Lindsay Loo Hoo]

Gelfand told the jurors if they agreed remote access was possible, that was reasonable doubt, and that the law demanded they return a verdict of not guilty.

He added that no one appreciated what they were about to do more than Josh Duggar.

"Everything is on the line," Gelfand said. "We ask that you find him not guilty."

[Trillium]

Just now, Annb67 said:

I’m worried about this. The jury has been gone longer than I thought they’d be

Not really. It’s been an hour and a half. There’s procedures to do, a foreman to chose. They probably did order lunch and go over the instructions. Even when a verdict is reached, these a lot of paperwork and procedures after that. 

[Ohiopirate02]

1 minute ago, Annb67 said:

I’m worried about this. The jury has been gone longer than I thought they’d be

I'm not.  Deliberations take time when done correctly.  The jury was sent back to deliberate with instructions from the judge.  It takes time for the jury to read over those and read over the charges.  This needs to be done before any straw voting.  A jury who deliberates for 20 minutes is not a good jury.

[Lindsay Loo Hoo]

Dustin Roberts with the prosecution then did a final closing.

He told the jurors Gelfand was making them believe a fantasy and that he treated the truth like he was throwing it at the wall to see what sticks.

"This case is not complicated," he added, saying the car lot had signs that people were being recorded and didn't seem like a place where a high-end cyber attack would occur.

"Why would a hacker install Linux?" he asked, saying it benefited one person.

He then said "there he is" and pointed at Josh Duggar.

[hathorlive]

4 minutes ago, Annb67 said:

I’m worried about this. The jury has been gone longer than I thought they’d be

Folks, I have ONE federal court case where the jury came back within 40 minutes.  And I was told they went in, voted guilty, talked for a few minutes, and then did paperwork and all the other stuff.  If the jurors want to go over evidence, it may take a while.  You may have a foreperson that wants to be methodical. They may of had lunch first before discussing.

[Lindsay Loo Hoo]

Roberts then reminded the jurors of the Intel1988 password.

"Everyone has a password," he said, that they use as their signature password. He said Duggar used it for other accounts like his bank and electric accounts.

"How does that make sense?" he asked, asking why a hacker would download Linux to only benefit themselves using that signature password.

[hathorlive]

I feel for Jill and Joy hearing their sexual assaults' reduced to child's play. 

[Lindsay Loo Hoo]

Roberts continued, saying you can't unsee child sexual abuse material and that it hits "your gut and heart."

He added that James Fottrell is the person teaching the sort of courses Michele Bush takes.

He also refuted the defense's homeschooling comments about Duggar, noting that he was a "power user" of technology.

He told the jurors Gelfand wanted them to think Tor is normal, but that it allows someone to view CSAM or buy a child.

Roberts said the small partition size suggested it was for receiving and possessing the material, not storing it.

[mynextmistake]

9 minutes ago, Annb67 said:

I’m worried about this. The jury has been gone longer than I thought they’d be

They’ve been out for like two hours. They’re probably eating lunch. A verdict in a case with this much technical evidence is not going to be instantaneous. 

[GeeGolly]

58 minutes ago, merylinkid said:

This is why I think they KNOW he is guilty.   Right after the raid on the car lot, everything got put in Anna's name.   Or Anna and .... wait for it ... Travis Story's name.   So that if there was a judgment against Josh, nothing could be seized.   

Besides the car lot, I hope a forensic accountant decides to look at the ALL the Duggar assets.   There's more than few shenanigans going on (and not the usual bookkeeping tricks everyone uses to avoid paying taxes in the fine old American Tradition.)

I thought they started moving things out of Josh's name, way back in 2015. After the Ashley Madison scandal. 

[starfire]

If he is deemed guilty today, will sentencing be tomorrow?  I hope he goes directly to jail after sentencing and isn't given time to get his "affairs in order". 

[hathorlive]

1 minute ago, Lindsay Loo Hoo said:

Roberts said the small partition size suggested it was for receiving and possessing the material, not storing it.

The term we use is "download and deleter" to refer to people who download CP, watch it, enjoy it, and then delete it off their machine.  Or think they deleted it off their machine.

[Insert Username]

God, could  you imagine if someone took a blacklight to that office? 🤢

[merylinkid]

6 minutes ago, Lindsay Loo Hoo said:

Roberts then reminded the jurors of the Intel1988 password.

"Everyone has a password," he said, that they use as their signature password. He said Duggar used it for other accounts like his bank and electric accounts.

"How does that make sense?" he asked, asking why a hacker would download Linux to only benefit themselves using that signature password.

A hacker who just HAPPENED to remote access in while Josh was at the lot, who HAPPENED to know the Linux partition even existed and who just HAPPENED to use Josh's favorite password.   But you know, the Dell_One user shows it was totally someone else -- who ALSO prefers Josh's favorite password.

[quarks]

26 minutes ago, crazy8s said:

Seriously??

Gelfand spoke for the defense for approximately 90 minutes. He reiterated all the points the defense has been making throughout the trial. Gelfand said the investigator in the case ignored other possible suspects because “they were so star struck about the possibility of prosecuting Josh Duggar.”

“So blinded by that focus that they refused to look for anything else,” Gelfand said. “Everything is on the line, the stakes don’t get any higher, we ask that you find him not guilty.”

(blinks)

This is ....100% not what happened.

I know this, because, seemingly unlike this defense attorney, I read through the BitTorrent motion they wrote back in August which claimed that the BitTorrent search conducted by local cops and the federal government was unconstitutional in part because it was too sweeping and did not identify Josh Duggar or anyone else as a potential suspect prior to starting the investigation.

I now kinda regret that the defense couldn't introduce that motion into evidence. 

 

[monagatuna]

Just now, starfire said:

If he is deemed guilty today, will sentencing be tomorrow?  I hope he goes directly to jail after sentencing and isn't given time to get his "affairs in order". 

From what I read on a separate forum, in serious federal cases like this one, the def is immediately placed in custody.

[JustRosie]

Just now, Insert Username said:

God, could  you imagine if someone took a blacklight to that office? 🤢

🤮 

[absnow54]

3 minutes ago, starfire said:

If he is deemed guilty today, will sentencing be tomorrow?  I hope he goes directly to jail after sentencing and isn't given time to get his "affairs in order". 

Sentencing won't be until early next year, but he'll probably get his bail revoked and will be held in custody until sentencing.

Edited December 8, 2021 by absnow54

[Lindsay Loo Hoo]

Roberts added that Josh Duggar owned an HP and wasn't just a Mac guy.

He said Bush told them her purpose was to find remote hacking.

He added that it wasn't reasonable for a hacker to download a partition personal to Duggar on May 11 and that they wouldn't have known Covenant Eyes was on there.

As for the hat in the reflection of the computer on May 14, Roberts suggested the text from Duggar's phone about getting stuck at the car lot meant he was there when child sexual abuse material was downloaded.

"The bad stuff didn't happen when he wasn't there," he said.

A recording of Josh Duggar explaining peer-to-peer software was on the iPhone, laptop, and HP computer - the office computer - was played.

The recording of Duggar saying he didn't want to say if he was guilty or innocent was also played.

[Lindsay Loo Hoo]

Finally, Dustin Roberts told the jury, "Now it's time to hold him accountable. This invisible man theory crumbles."

"It's time to convict Josh Duggar."

[farmgal4]

2 hours ago, Jeanne222 said:

I think the black Nike sweatshirt runs a close second!

Was that really a sweatshirt??

[GeeGolly]

Do any of you lawyers know how much time is needed from knowing a verdict is reached, to then assemble in court to read the verdict?

[Westiepeach]

Boob's hairpiece?

[GeeGolly]

Just now, Westiepeach said:

Boob's hairpiece?

Or Jessa's handiwork.