Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[Lindsay Loo Hoo]

Clayman then asked about how Bush didn't include the Snap Store in her report and she agreed.

He asked if she had heard of it before Fottrell's testimony and she said yes.

Clayman noted that Bush said you can download Tor with command codes but that Bush never mentioned the app store/Snap Store and Bush said in her report, she did not.

He asked if she couldn't find uTorrent in the Snap Store even though it's been around since 2005 and Bush said correct.

Clayman asked if uTorrent, Tor, and VLC on the partition was available on the Snap Store, if that was more likely than using command lines, and Bush said they know the apps were used, that they could have been executed from command lines.

Clayman's cross-examination turned to the Dell_One username.

He asked if it was set up with a Dell because of the username and Bush said it can't be ignored, but that she can't know if it was created on a Dell.

The Sun reporter noted that defense lawyer Justin Gelfand had previously claimed it could have been created on a Dell and plugged into the computer.

Clayman then showed a screenshot of how Bush was unable to use an underscore in the username and claimed that the software Bush was using caused the error message, not Linux itself.

[Zella]

I feel like this is the least sensational The Sun's updates have been. I think even they know they can't compete with this brutal cross-exam. LOL

[Lindsay Loo Hoo]

Clayman asked if Bush was familiar with copy stream URL, and she said yes.

Clayman asked if you can't just copy stream URL and paste and Bush questioned if an input was needed, causing Clayman to ask if she wasn't familiar with what he was talking about.

She admitted yes.

[GeeGolly]

Clayman admitted that in one of the videos in question in this case, the first 29 seconds do not have child sexual abuse depicted.

Bush previously said it was deleted after 29 seconds.

Does this imply what I think it does? That Josh deleted the video once he realized it wasn't CSA.

[Lindsay Loo Hoo]

Clayman then asked if Bush found no evidence showing that the access was remote, and Bush said the evidence was not available and that logs from a router would show that.

Clayman asked if she had no idea if it was accessed remotely and she said that was correct because the evidence does not exist.

He asked if she looked for evidence to see if someone accessed the HP Windows side, and Bush said she doesn't think she did, noting it was not the infected side.

Clayman asked if there was no proof the Windows side of the HP was accessed remotely and Bush said yes.

[lascuba]

1 minute ago, GeeGolly said:

Clayman admitted that in one of the videos in question in this case, the first 29 seconds do not have child sexual abuse depicted.

Bush previously said it was deleted after 29 seconds.

Does this imply what I think it does? That Josh deleted the video once he realized it wasn't CSA.

Or he deleted it as soon as he saw it was CSA.

[Lindsay Loo Hoo]

Clayman asked Bush if there was evidence the Linux side had remote access and Bush said those logs have been overwritten.

Clayman said in Bush's report, she does not mention remote access apps on Linux, but she mentioned an app for such access, Remmina, in her testimony.

He asked if there was proof Remmina was used and she said the logs were overwritten.

Bush said she had no proof of remote access but can't rule it out.

[CalicoKitty]

2 hours ago, Jeanne222 said:

Actually I'm wondering that to!  Where is Michelle?

Does Boob allow her to go anywhere without him?  Apparently someone has to have a vice grip on her arm, and that is his exclusive job.

[Lindsay Loo Hoo]

The discussion then turned to May 15, 2019.

The court was shown a May 15 image of someone at the car lot taking a photo of a YouTube video on the HP Windows side.

There is a reflection of what could allegedly be a hat of Josh Duggar's on the computer screen and the court was also shown the Lowes selfie photo of Josh and Anna Duggar together, with him wearing what is allegedly the same hat.

Less than an hour after the photo at the car lot was taken, Tor files were downloaded that day.

In the 5 o'clock hour, many torrent files of child sexual abuse material were downloaded.

Clayman then noted that you need to restart the computer to log onto Linux and asked if that's visible, and Bush said you would see the computer switching Windows to Linux.

But she added that you may not hear the sound of the child sexual abuse videos if someone was on the computer at the same time.

Clayman and Bush then discussed the router again.

Josh Duggar admitting in the Homeland Security interview that he set up the router and it's secure and password protected was discussed next.

Bush said that wasn't relevant to her forensics and admitted to never being asked to see or examine the router.

[Zella]

1 minute ago, Lindsay Loo Hoo said:

Josh Duggar admitting in the Homeland Security interview that he set up the router and it's secure and password protected was discussed next.

Bush said that wasn't relevant to her forensics and admitted to never being asked to see or examine the router.

After all the fuss they've made about the router, that is a pretty damning admission. 

[mittsigirl]

7 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Personally I think it would be obvious to the jurors who is there to support Josh. All the siblings have been sitting with the wife of the defendant. The wife who clearly supports her husband. I don't think one juror is going to surmise these 'spectators' are there to support the defendant's wife and not the defendant. 

And all have interacted with Anna in the jurors presence. Whether it be a smile, a nod or a whisper, the jurors see it. I wouldn't be surprised if they've seen smiles and nods to Josh too. IMO, this matters. Everything in the courtroom matters. Its far easier to believe a 30 something year old guy is a sexual deviant when he's unsupported in the courtroom. 

I think our discussions on the presence of the siblings is a good representation of what happens in deliberations. Different pieces of evidence are interpreted differently and different pieces of evidence carry more weight for some jurors than others. And different folks (knowingly and unknowingly) want to believe different things and so they (intentionally and unintentionally) make their observations fit their narrative.

Jurors are human, this is why lawyers try hard to get some on the jury and others dismissed. They bring themselves into the deliberations, even when they try hard not to.

I would feel much more confident that justice will be served if it was trial by judge and not jury. From what I have read, that judge has distaste for the Pest.

[Zella]

Just now, mittsigirl said:

I would feel much more confident that justice will be served if it was trial by judge and not jury. From what I have read, that judge has distaste for the Pest.

Statistically, though, federal defendants are more likely to walk free with trial by judge rather than going before a jury. 

[GeeGolly]

JB picked a good day to come to court. Watching his son's expert witness get ripped to shreds.

[satrunrose]

6 minutes ago, Zella said:

Josh Duggar admitting in the Homeland Security interview that he set up the router and it's secure and password protected was discussed next.

Bush said that wasn't relevant to her forensics and admitted to never being asked to see or examine the router.

If I didn't want Josh to end up in jail so badly, I would almost feel bad for the defence.  I guess ofJimBob's teaching on bankruptcy law didn't cover why you never say a word to law enforcement without your lawyer. I mean, seriously, my worst crime was running the very end of a yellow light and my law degree is from Hudson U and I know better.

Edited December 7, 2021 by satrunrose

[mittsigirl]

5 hours ago, ginger90 said:

The Sun had it wrong earlier in the day. They corrected it. They originally  referred to her as the Reber’s daughter. Notice the post is from Hannah Bunch Reber. That’s their daughter-in-law’s Facebook page.

When I posted that link on here, it was the daughter-in-law, not the daughter.

[lascuba]

1 minute ago, GeeGolly said:

JB picked a good day to come to court. Watching his son's expert witness get ripped to shreds.

Watch him try to demand his money back.

[Zella]

2 minutes ago, satrunrose said:

If I didn't want Josh to end up in jail so badly, I would almost feel bad for the defence.  I guess ofJimBob's teaching on bankruptcy law didn't cover why you never say a word to law enforcement without your lawyer. 

I am totally cheering this on, but every time I read an update, I reflexively cringe because it really is so awkward for someone to be eviscerated this publicly, even when it is well deserved. I bet this is an ass-spanking she doesn't soon forget.

Edited December 7, 2021 by Zella

[hathorlive]

38 minutes ago, Kellyee said:

I work at a technology company, and most of what I know was self taught or taught to me by coworkers while working on projects. It's very common.

It's very different to learn by watching and using and understanding how the OS is set up, the structure of the file system and limitations governing user accounts, programs, and networking.  She shouldn't have been given this case without formal Linux training on her CV.

[ginger90]

Just now, mittsigirl said:

When I posted that link on here, it was the daughter-in-law, not the daughter.

It obviously linked to a corrected story. I saw it when they had incorrectly identified her, even though the screenshot clearly showed her name. 🤷🏼‍♀️

[hathorlive]

18 minutes ago, Lindsay Loo Hoo said:

Clayman asked Bush if there was evidence the Linux side had remote access and Bush said those logs have been overwritten.

Clayman said in Bush's report, she does not mention remote access apps on Linux, but she mentioned an app for such access, Remmina, in her testimony.

He asked if there was proof Remmina was used and she said the logs were overwritten.

Bush said she had no proof of remote access but can't rule it out.

And there we have it.  Smoke and Mirrors 101.  

[sheshark]

Who is the woman in the black and white checked jacket walking in with Anna?  They side hug.  I thought she looked like a Keller sister.

[SJC]

2 minutes ago, Zella said:

I bet this is an ass-spanking she doesn't soon forget.

She won't be able to sit for a while. 😆

 

[GeeGolly]

5 minutes ago, Zella said:

I am totally cheering this on, but every time I read an update, I reflexively cringe because it really is so awkward for someone to be eviscerated this publicly, even when it is well deserved. I bet this is an ass-spanking she doesn't soon forget.

No cringing here. If it was a class or a business meeting I would for sure cringe for her. But this is her testimony in the court of law, so I'm here for it 100%.

[Zella]

2 minutes ago, SJC said:

She won't be able to sit for a while. 😆

 

This is making me think of the scene in O Brother Where Art Thou when they argue about whether they're going to get their asses spanked or kicked. LMAO

 

Just now, GeeGolly said:

No cringing here. If it was a class or a business meeting I would for sure cringe for her. But this is her testimony in the court of law, so I'm here for it 100%.

Yeah for sure I don't feel bad for her. But the secondhand awkwardness. I can feel it from the courthouse to my house. LOL

[hathorlive]

28 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Clayman admitted that in one of the videos in question in this case, the first 29 seconds do not have child sexual abuse depicted.

Bush previously said it was deleted after 29 seconds.

Does this imply what I think it does? That Josh deleted the video once he realized it wasn't CSA.

Yup.  We see it all the time.  Or that it contains the wrong sex child.  Or worse, you just downloaded something you already have.  

[galaxygirl76]

2 hours ago, Jeanne222 said:

Actually I'm wondering that to!  Where is Michelle?

It's too hard to sit that long with missing back muscles. 

[Zella]

The Sun is now reporting that they've misidentified Jason as Jed. Again. LOL 

[SJC]

1 minute ago, galaxygirl76 said:

It's too hard to sit that long with missing back muscles. 

LOLOL !!!!  😆 

Just now, Zella said:

misidentified Jason as Jed. Again.

I knew it ! 

[Panopticon]

Just now, Zella said:

The Sun is now reporting that they've misidentified Jason as Jed. Again. LOL 

Frantic Sun staffers: Wait… there’s a Jason??

[MMEButterfly]

26 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

JB picked a good day to come to court. Watching his son's expert witness get ripped to shreds.

And, even worse, JB isn't allowed to object. 

[absnow54]

3 minutes ago, Panopticon said:

Frantic Sun staffers: Wait… there’s a Jason??

STILL?

[Tikichick]

27 minutes ago, Zella said:

I am totally cheering this on, but every time I read an update, I reflexively cringe because it really is so awkward for someone to be eviscerated this publicly, even when it is well deserved. I bet this is an ass-spanking she doesn't soon forget.

If it makes you feel any better it's common for expert witnesses to have also spent a significant amount of time training in techniques to stay on course and on message during contentious cross examination.   

24 minutes ago, hathorlive said:

And there we have it.  Smoke and Mirrors 101.  

The name of the game for the defense, hoping that all they need is the first bite of the apple to result in an acquittal and never have to resort to hoping their seedlings sown for appellate issues sprout successfully. 

20 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

No cringing here. If it was a class or a business meeting I would for sure cringe for her. But this is her testimony in the court of law, so I'm here for it 100%.

Testimony in a court of law that she's being well compensated to deliver. 

[Trillium]

I feel like The Sun just throws our random J names and thinks they’ll eventually get it right. I’m not even sure it was Jessa there yesterday and not Laura, she was seen leaving and AFAIK, there’s no pictures of Jessa. Same with Jana. It’s Schrodinger's Duggar, no one knows for sure. 

[MargeGunderson]

19 minutes ago, Zella said:

The Sun is now reporting that they've misidentified Jason as Jed. Again. LOL 

Let’s be honest, most of us here have done it as well. 😂

[hathorlive]

5 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

Testimony in a court of law that she's being well compensated to deliver. 

The sad thing is that in Digital Forensics, you either have decades of experience and training or a Forensics degree.  She has neither.  But then again, the entire company is there to BS the jury and lie.  Again, the prosecutor group has an entire file on her and how they testify and what to expect if you are in court against her.

Kudos to the cross examiner.  He did a great job, overwritten logs my ass.  Now all we need is for the closing to state that the USB drive is meaningless. The router doesn't capture data that goes through it, so it's meaningless, and that the defense witness backed up everything the prosecution said, there were CP files, they were downloaded during the times Josh was in front of the computer and they were viewed. It's real simple folks.

[Zella]

Just now, MargeGunderson said:

Let’s be honest, most of us here have done it as well. 😂

I mean, I only started to recognize him when he kept popping up in Hilaria's photos this year. LOL

[coconspirator]

1 hour ago, Dimi1 said:

I could never be on a jury..because even if they told me not to...I would go home and google the person...I am smart enough to separate fact from fiction...so if I was on the the trial for Josh...I would google him and see the police reports and all the factual stuff and would vote guilty, guilty , guilty...I could not lay my head down at night knowing I let a child predator loose....

And the first time that became clear to other jurors during deliberations it would be reported and would probably trigger a mistrial. 

[peppergal]

So on the whole dell_one user name and Bush's claim that it is an impossible, I decided to spin up an Ubuntu VM.  I then told it to create the user "dell_one"  and it did so without complaint.   When I list the users on the system I get (the first line is just the command to tell the system to only show me the usernames in the file and not all the other stuff that would just confuse people):

Quote

$ awk -F: '{ print $1}' /etc/passwd
root
[removed a bunch of system users you don't care about]
dell_one

So the whole "you can't use an undersocre in the name"  is a limitation of Bush's tool and not the OS itself but she's just too uninformed to know the difference.

As to where it came from, the most likely answer is that Josh used a pre-filled answer file, also known as a kickstart file, to run the installation and the user name was in there.  When I used to create those kickstart files for customers I always had to remember to remove stuff like that so that they were prompted to create their own user name, because the easiest way to create the file is to do a manual installation and let it save your answers for use on the next machine.

[absnow54]

11 minutes ago, Trillium said:

I feel like The Sun just throws our random J names and thinks they’ll eventually get it right. I’m not even sure it was Jessa there yesterday and not Laura, she was seen leaving and AFAIK, there’s no pictures of Jessa. Same with Jana. It’s Schrodinger's Duggar, no one knows for sure. 

Jana is legitimately there today. They just posted pictures with her. 

[GeeGolly]

Looks like Laura is with them too.

[mythoughtis]

On 12/6/2021 at 11:40 AM, Lindsay Loo Hoo said:

Bobye Holt explained that the plan had been for their oldest daughter and Josh Duggar to get married.

They were 15.  How insane in this day and age in America to be planning a marriage of 15 Year olds.  
 

As to who is in the gallery.  If I were a juror, I would not be surprised at his/ her family being there.  I wouldn’t think a defendant was innocent just because a family member supported, talked to or even hugged him.  

Edited December 7, 2021 by mythoughtis

[absnow54]

Just now, GeeGolly said:

Looks like Laura is with them too.

They just gave her a shoutout! There's a pic of just her and Jim Bob, and she's wearing pants!

[hathorlive]

11 minutes ago, peppergal said:

So on the whole dell_one user name and Bush's claim that it is an impossible, I decided to spin up an Ubuntu VM.  I then told it to create the user "dell_one"  and it did so without complaint.   When I list the users on the system I get (the first line is just the command to tell the system to only show me the usernames in the file and not all the other stuff that would just confuse people):

So the whole "you can't use an undersocre in the name"  is a limitation of Bush's tool and not the OS itself but she's just too uninformed to know the difference.

As to where it came from, the most likely answer is that Josh used a pre-filled answer file, also known as a kickstart file, to run the installation and the user name was in there.  When I used to create those kickstart files for customers I always had to remember to remove stuff like that so that they were prompted to create their own user name, because the easiest way to create the file is to do a manual installation and let it save your answers for use on the next machine.

Or Josh typed it in on purpose to be "clever".  There are limitations within Linux username accounts but the _ isn't one of them.  I'm glad they called her on that.  And hopefully the Jury is saying "if she's wrong about that, what else is she wrong about?" to themselves.

[Tuxcat]

So happy with that cross examination - if it was reported accurately. They hit everything I wanted them too. Ok who's up next? Jed!? (aka not Jason). 

 

[Iguessnot]

4 minutes ago, absnow54 said:

They just gave her a shoutout! There's a pic of just her and Jim Bob, and she's wearing pants!

Dare I say all four of them look dashing🙂.  They all look nicely suited and booted.

[Zella]

They're finally back to recapping the testimony, and there's this gem:

"He asked if there was evidence of a cyber attack on the computer at the car lot, and Bush said she didn't have evidence, but that it was possible.

When he asked if such evidence existed in the logs, Bush said it doesn't exist." 

[Tabbygirl521]

42 minutes ago, Zella said:

The Sun is now reporting that they've misidentified Jason as Jed. Again. LOL 

The Duggar guys really kinda are like a set of canisters or Russian nesting dolls. 

[hathorlive]

1 minute ago, Zella said:

They're finally back to recapping the testimony, and there's this gem:

"He asked if there was evidence of a cyber attack on the computer at the car lot, and Bush said she didn't have evidence, but that it was possible.

When he asked if such evidence existed in the logs, Bush said it doesn't exist." 

I want to read her actual words in a transcript. but this is a hot mess.  That's all we need the jury to take away.  FYI, when you are hacked there are tons of electronic hoofprints all over your system, in log files and places you probably don't know about.  It's why Cyber Defense firms like CrowdStrike exist.  They then remediate your network and tell you who did what.  So "logs" do exist, you just don't know where they are or didn't bother to look at them.

[SJC]

3 minutes ago, Zella said:

When he asked if such evidence existed in the logs, Bush said it doesn't exist.

Good gravy. 

[Tuxcat]

1 minute ago, hathorlive said:

I want to read her actual words in a transcript. but this is a hot mess.  That's all we need the jury to take away.  FYI, when you are hacked there are tons of electronic hoofprints all over your system, in log files and places you probably don't know about.  It's why Cyber Defense firms like CrowdStrike exist.  They then remediate your network and tell you who did what.  So "logs" do exist, you just don't know where they are or didn't bother to look at them.

Sounds like she couldn't do anything without the router. 🤣