Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[Zella]

2 minutes ago, Natalie68 said:

Is this AMA easy to find?

 

[Natalie68]

5 minutes ago, Zella said:

 

THANK YOU!

[Zella]

3 minutes ago, Natalie68 said:

THANK YOU!

You're welcome!

There's also a second one (also verified) of a woman who worked with Josh at FRC that makes for some interesting reading. 

 

[Tikichick]

14 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I know there are cases, say of murders or rapes, where they only charge the defendant on a few of the charges, say only two murders when there were three, so if the lose the case the defendant can be charged for the third murder and they can try him again, without it being double jeopardy.

Is that something they could do with Josh? Try him for the two dates they're charging him for and hold off on any other downloads on different dates?

Double jeopardy protection was intended initially to protect citizens from government harassment and potential persecution of endless prosecution, rightfully so.   If there is a way to demonstrate the 3 murders are part of one criminal transaction and that the prosecution had the information about the third murder and chose to hold back on the charge as a deliberate end run around jeopardy attaching it will likely be overturned.   

Sometimes there can be what seems like an exception to that idea if there's a crime spree that crosses jurisdictions.   In that case one jurisdiction may choose to go first with prosecution, with the second waiting to proceed until the other jurisdiction concludes its case.   It's common especially when dealing with substance abusers who are deep in active use to see bursts of criminal charges happening very close in proximity to one another, yet in fact be completely different cases.   There's no problem with jeopardy attaching in those cases because they aren't considered part of the same criminal transaction, even if they're committing the same crime repeatedly, i.e. breaking into homes over the course of a month or two.   

[Natalie68]

20 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

The “third party” can be family.

 

To get his release pretrial granted, the prosecutor  will have to prove risk of flight, or that Josh is a danger to the community.

His lawyer may submit letters from people who attest to his character. (No clue who the heck would do that).

I wondered about that.  The problem with these people are the proximity to a bazillion kids for every member and let's just say they don't have the sense needed for good decisions.  They also seem to be marrying up all the single men so THEY don't look like cp viewing pervs as well.  This seems to be the Duggar solution.  When scandal's 1 and 2 came out there was a rush of girl Duggar weddings.  Now right before this one drops a couple more balding Duggars whose countenances look 15 got married.  

[JoanArc]

20 minutes ago, Natalie68 said:

THANK YOU!

This person made another post that said they are going to do some readings and go into more detail about their childhood with Josh.

[Tikichick]

1 minute ago, Natalie68 said:

I wondered about that.  The problem with these people are the proximity to a bazillion kids for every member and let's just say they don't have the sense needed for good decisions.  They also seem to be marrying up all the single men so THEY don't look like cp viewing pervs as well.  This seems to be the Duggar solution.  When scandal's 1 and 2 came out there was a rush of girl Duggar weddings.  Now right before this one drops a couple more balding Duggars whose countenances look 15 got married.  

Aside from Jana, who at her age is definitely very much an outlier in their cult norms as a 30 year old single woman, are there any other Duggar females of marriage age right now?  The fact that a string of girls got married then and it's a line of the boys marrying now might be more about who's actually of marital age when.   Back when the first scandals hit JD seemed destined to be an outlier like his twin.

 

[Natalie68]

1 minute ago, JoanArc said:

This person made another post that said they are going to do some readings and go into more detail about their childhood with Josh.

Fantastic!

Just now, Tikichick said:

Aside from Jana, who at her age is definitely very much an outlier in their cult norms as a 30 year old single woman, are there any other Duggar females of marriage age right now?  The fact that a string of girls got married then and it's a line of the boys marrying now might be more about who's actually of marital age when.   Back when the first scandals hit JD seemed destined to be an outlier like his twin.

 

I don't think there are other females.  I see the marriages as a distraction and a way to get more off the Duggar teet as they are about to bleed cash defending Josh.  Again.

[crazy8s]

30 minutes ago, Natalie68 said:

I wondered about that.  The problem with these people are the proximity to a bazillion kids for every member and let's just say they don't have the sense needed for good decisions.  They also seem to be marrying up all the single men so THEY don't look like cp viewing pervs as well.  This seems to be the Duggar solution.  When scandal's 1 and 2 came out there was a rush of girl Duggar weddings.  Now right before this one drops a couple more balding Duggars whose countenances look 15 got married.  

this seems unfair to the two recently married - no evidence to believe Jed! or Justin were involved in any such thing.

I do believe there was a set up to marry them of to families with jobs or had their own money. If the Jana and Jer courting with Wissmanns has any truth it, it would be the same. Marrying them to other fundies with a legit family business.

Edited May 3, 2021 by crazy8s

[Tikichick]

2 minutes ago, Natalie68 said:

I don't think there are other females.  I see the marriages as a distraction and a way to get more off the Duggar teet as they are about to bleed cash defending Josh.  Again.

What's interesting is that, especially when the sons marry, it's very nebulous as to how they are able to support their households apart from the Duggar teet.   Every baby Josh and Anna added definitely was felt by all the rest relying on the family grift, because there's absolutely no way he provided anything beyond but headaches, heartaches and shame for his family.

[lulu69]

Other posters seem to be of the opinion that Smuggar will have no say regarding his case and whether it goes trial or not, that Blob & Benzo hold the power. I strongly disagree.

Imho, the pervert holds all the power. He knows where all JB's proverbial bodies are buried, all of JB financial shenanigans and of all the messed up bullshit that has occurred in the family since day 1. If Smug truly feels his life is inescapable shit then he has nothing to lose and a person with nothing to lose is very dangerous. If I was JB I'd be very nervous right about now.

Actually, if Smug sings he has the potential to not only take down the Duggar empire but potentially other gothard families and gothard himself. Part of me wonders if the Fed's plan is to nail Smuggar or if they have bigger fish to fry. Ymmv.

 

[WinnieWinkle]

3 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

Every baby Josh and Anna added definitely was felt by all the rest relying on the family grift, because there's absolutely no way he provided anything beyond but headaches, heartaches and shame for his family.

In reality though how much can this actually be costing anyone?  They live in a windowless warehouse - they dress like they shop at thrift stores (not that there's anything wrong with that!) and they don't seem to have any of life's real luxuries.  You clearly don't marry a Duggar to have a lifestyle of the rich and famous!  I wonder where the money actually goes?

Edited May 3, 2021 by WinnieWinkle

[Oldernowiser]

3 minutes ago, lulu69 said:

Actually, if Smug sings he has the potential to not only take down the Duggar empire but potentially other gothard families and gothard himself. Part of me wonders if the Fed's plan is to nail Smuggar or if they have bigger fish to fry. Ymmv.

I like the way you think! 😈

[Lady Whistleup]

I hope Katey and Claire stay strong and refuse to house Josh in their houses. They are the only married in-laws without kids. Let JB and M put him up in a hotel and pay the bills.

[Tikichick]

Just now, lulu69 said:

Other posters seem to be of the opinion that Smuggar will have no say regarding his case and whether it goes trial or not, that Blob & Benzo hold the power. I strongly disagree.

Imho, the pervert holds all the power. He knows where all JB's proverbial bodies are buried, all of JB financial shenanigans and of all the messed up bullshit that has occurred in the family since day 1. If Smug truly feels his life is inescapable shit then he has nothing to lose and a person with nothing to lose is very dangerous. If I was JB I'd be very nervous right about now.

Actually, if Smug sings he has the potential to not only take down the Duggar empire but potentially other gothard families and gothard himself. Part of me wonders if the Fed's plan is to nail Smuggar or if they have bigger fish to fry. Ymmv.

 

IMO JB is too greedy and territorial to have revealed that level of information to anyone and risk anybody having the possibility to snatch the keys to the kingdom.  A lot of potential financially related information Josh might have had some knowledge of at one point is now becoming ever more remote and very likely the statute of limitations has tolled.   At this point Josh's more likely threat would be mud he could publicly fling, however by virtue of his charges it's not likely respectable, mainstream media of any standing would give him the time of day.

[Ohiopirate02]

2 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

I hope Katey and Claire stay strong and refuse to house Josh in their houses. They are the only married in-laws without kids. Let JB and M put him up in a hotel and pay the bills.

He would not be able to stay in a hotel if he cannot be around children.

[mittsigirl]

5 hours ago, doodlebug said:

Who knows?  

From what our other posters who have worked with the feds have told us, the search warrant has to specifically indicate what they are looking for.  Also, the 16 months or so that it took for Josh to be arrested is not unusual in this kind of case.

The experts suspect that the feds found Josh through tracing others who shared files with him.

That's what the police told me when my incident happened. These guys just love to share what images they have with other perverts, they rarely keep to themselves. There are usually thousands of them to share with, if not more. 

[Oldernowiser]

1 minute ago, Tikichick said:

IMO JB is too greedy and territorial to have revealed that level of information to anyone and risk anybody having the possibility to snatch the keys to the kingdom. 

I agree...however, JB may not know how much Josh knows. The guy who wrote that AMA on Reddit said that Josh is very tech-savvy and I’m guessing JB isn’t. If JB uses a computer for any of his financial stuff Josh would have been able to access it.

Even if everything is hard copy and locked up I can’t see that stopping Josh for too long.

[hathorlive]

6 hours ago, MaryAnneSpier said:

Is it possible they were initially raided for financial stuff and the Feds found the child stuff along the way incidentally and that's why it took so long to bring him in? 

Is it possible that Josh's charges are both for CP and finanical fraud? 

Based on my experience and what I've read, Josh was "seen" downloading files from a CP site. I won't go into detail how or why this can be done.  But it fits with the charges and the actions of the taskforce.  I think they MAY find financial crimes, as a result, if Josh was hiding assets.

[doodlebug]

4 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

He would not be able to stay in a hotel if he cannot be around children.

It also sounds like he has to have a 'third party' in residence with him; so someone would have to go to that hotel with him.  Sort of like an accountability partner, but court-mandated not Boob-mandated.

[CouchTater]

2 hours ago, Oldernowiser said:

Yesterday I was reading an article about cleaning a 330-ton wad of congealed fat out of the sewers of London and I thought, “well, there’s the worst job in the world right there.”

But it’s still a distant second to being Josh’s live-in guard.

Oh, my.  I had never heard of this and looked it up.  They're called 'fatbergs!"  Here's a pic of a commemorative plaque  for 1 such fatberg that was destroyed in London.  The more you know....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatberg

Edited May 3, 2021 by CouchTater

[mittsigirl]

6 hours ago, doodlebug said:

Probably not, most localities require that there be multiple means of egress especially from bedrooms.  It probably isn't permitted for residential use.  I believe this is the same place where Jessa's husband, Ben, lived before they were married.  However, there is a big difference between a single 17 year old guy living in unsafe housing and 6, soon to be 7, little kids living that way.

In my province of Saskatchewan, it is against the law, due to possible fires, to live in or rent a domain that does not have windows, in the bedrooms for sure.

[Tikichick]

7 minutes ago, WinnieWinkle said:

In reality though how much can this actually be costing anyone?  They live in a windowless warehouse - they dress like they shop at thrift stores (not that there's anything wrong with that!) and they don't seem to have any of life's real luxuries.  You clearly don't marry a Duggar to have a lifestyle of the rich and famous!  I wonder where the money actually goes?

First off, if the windowless warehouse abode is true, I don't suspect that will be an option much longer if CPS comes a calling and does a home study.   I'm not sure the TTH will be an option CPS would approve either due to the en mass sleeping arrangements and children being required to bunk in common spaces with grown adults.   That means a new residence may be necessary.   There are LLCs in Anna's name apparently, but how easily will they be liquidated and available to procure new housing?   Even once housing is secured, food, clothing, utilities for that many is going to be expensive.   CPS is also going to push for all medical visits to be up to date and probe the education being provided.

Any way you slice it, that many kids is expensive.   It's pretty clear, even amongst a family where it seems no one is gainfully employed, Josh definitely didn't add to the pot.   Joe's family is rapidly expanding.   Jessa's getting ready for number four with not much evidence of a steady income stream coming in.   Sure, they should have been making money off the show, but I like many assume it went into a communal pot controlled and doled out by JB as he chose.   I don't really think any of them should bank on the show providing anymore -- despite the siblings bearing absolutely no responsibility for what Josh did.  

[WinnieWinkle]

1 minute ago, Tikichick said:

 I don't really think any of them should bank on the show providing anymore -- despite the siblings bearing absolutely no responsibility for what Josh did.  

Is there any info anywhere as to how much the Duggars were being paid by TLC?  I am betting that whatever the amount that isn't where most of their income is from.  I hope a lot of that extra income dries up in TLC finally dumps them.

[hathorlive]

4 hours ago, Chai said:

Thank you for posting that link. I was wondering if everyone who downloads and views  cp  is a federal offense or if there are other circumstances that make it so. 

In my experience, CP is CP.  It's illegal in both state and federal law.  However, what usuallyc gets a case taken federally is either scale and scope ( a LOT of images) or something that is interstate in nature.  

[IndianPaintbrush]

 

14 minutes ago, lulu69 said:

Other posters seem to be of the opinion that Smuggar will have no say regarding his case and whether it goes trial or not, that Blob & Benzo hold the power. I strongly disagree.

Imho, the pervert holds all the power. He knows where all JB's proverbial bodies are buried, all of JB financial shenanigans and of all the messed up bullshit that has occurred in the family since day 1. If Smug truly feels his life is inescapable shit then he has nothing to lose and a person with nothing to lose is very dangerous. If I was JB I'd be very nervous right about now.

Actually, if Smug sings he has the potential to not only take down the Duggar empire but potentially other gothard families and gothard himself. Part of me wonders if the Fed's plan is to nail Smuggar or if they have bigger fish to fry. Ymmv.

 

I see where you're coming from, however I believe Josh will never risk being financially cut off. He may not care about Anna and the kids, but he definitely cares about himself, and finding a real job is the last thing he wants to do. Besides, who is gonna believe anything he says?

[peppergal]

1 hour ago, Cinnabon said:

It’s not in some cities, not sure about theirs.

Tonitown states that residential dwellings must follow Arkansas fire code.  Arkansas fire code says that residential dwellings follow the international residential code for requirements of means of egress. 

That code says: 

Basements, habitable attics and every sleeping room shall have at least one operable emergency escape and rescue opening.

it defines the emergency escape and rescue opening as:

EMERGENCY ESCAPE AND RESCUE OPENING. An operable exterior window, door or similar device that provides for a means of escape and access for rescue in the event of an emergency.

So if there are actual bedrooms in the warehouse and not just an open floor plan, then a building with one door and no windows is NOT to code for a residential dwelling, either for a single family dwelling or for a multi-family dwelling.  Which begs the question:  did they ever even apply for a proper COO for that building?

 

[Tikichick]

Just now, WinnieWinkle said:

Is there any info anywhere as to how much the Duggars were being paid by TLC?  I am betting that whatever the amount that isn't where most of their income is from.  I hope a lot of that extra income dries up in TLC finally dumps them.

I absolutely have no clue.   My suspicion on the money is that JB has squeezed a lot of the show money to invest ever more in real estate.   So over time it's very likely the real estate earnings could definitely be the major revenue driver, however in my mind it's likely the show made a lot of that investment possible in the first place.   Of course JB's real estate empire originated with his parents originally, so it's not as if he produced it off the sweat of his brow in quite the way they like to mythologize.

I think the other business ventures we've heard about like car lots are largely scam operations, which is apparently justified if you're fleecing the godless heathens and not true believers.

 

[Oldernowiser]

1 minute ago, peppergal said:

Which begs the question:  did they ever even apply for a proper COO for that building?

I would bet $1000 they didn’t. JB’s too arrogant and he thinks rules are for the little people/godless heathens, not him.

[mittsigirl]

5 hours ago, Oldernowiser said:

Anna’s very, very good at denial. Besides, “Josh is being framed” is a much better fundraising story than, “Josh has unusual hobbies.” 

I just read this morning that a huge CP ring has just been busted in Germany that had 400,000 customers around the world. I wonder if there’s a connection…probably not, but I’d sleep better if I could think there was only one group of these sick individuals.

All of those little kids living in that warehouse with no windows scares the crap out of me. If that place caught fire…

 

400,000 of these perverts, from one ring?? So gut wrenching! I would just like to know why? What is wrong with these people? Are they born this way or are they made to be this way? I say people because the police told me that there are also women involved, not as many but still a lot of them. I just can't understand the attraction to children, toddlers and babies, but I do feel that there is a special place in hell for all of them. It seems to be getting worse because now just about everyone can afford a computer and that is the main way that they all find each other. I also personally believe that there is no fixing them once they are beyond a certain age. Even if Josh would have gotten the help at 15, I just don't think it would have changed him. I know that may not be a popular belief, but it's just my opinion.

[hathorlive]

3 hours ago, doodlebug said:

The feds can know not only when the files were accessed but also how many images were downloaded.  If it were just a couple of pics of kids being abused, they wouldn't have bothered.  There are probably hundreds, if not thousands of images that were downloaded on the two dates given.

The charges also give two distinct dates as having been when the downloads occurred.  That doesn't mean they don't have a bunch of other dates and a lot of other files.  Pedophiles who play online don't just go there once or twice.  There is probably a pattern and other instances but these were the times that it was well documented that it was Josh sitting at the computer.

If Josh doesn't play ball and cooperate, I would expect that the Feds will be happy to let him know what else they have and how many more counts could be filed against him if he'd wants to play chicken with them.

Not exactly.  There can be a lot of pictures on the computer and all we know is they are on the computer.  Sometimes the file path helps. But there are many times when we can't tell you how an image got there.  Sometimes, sure.  Time and Date stamps are handy.  But this isn't always clear cut.  

Also, I will keep reiterating this.  The date's given for activity could relate to the images they are going to present in court.  During a trial, I do not sit up there and go through thousands of images.  The prosecutor usually picks whatever images fit his or her narrative (based on age, content, location) and the dates reflect those images.  Maybe he only downloaded images on two dates, but more than likely, those are the dates of the images they intend to charge on and present in court.

Edited May 3, 2021 by hathorlive

[crazy8s]

31 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

I hope Katey and Claire stay strong and refuse to house Josh in their houses. They are the only married in-laws without kids. Let JB and M put him up in a hotel and pay the bills.

probably duggar realtor pal tom joseph will suddenly have a house for rent, like he did when Jed! was running for office. Maybe grown man Elijah Kaneshiro can get out of the boys dorm at the TTH and "supervise"

Edited May 3, 2021 by crazy8s

[Tikichick]

29 minutes ago, peppergal said:

Which begs the question:  did they ever even apply for a proper COO for that building?

 

 

26 minutes ago, Oldernowiser said:

I would bet $1000 they didn’t. JB’s too arrogant and he thinks rules are for the little people/godless heathens, not him.

I had asked about the COO back when I first heard discussion of the warehouse.   I believe someone stated that because where they live isn't technically under the jurisdiction of the local municipality they didn't have to obtain one and someone else suggested that JB probably handled it by using his pull with local officials.

If the warehouse situation is as discussed, one way or another they are going to be forced to rectify the living quarters, either by CPS home study, or local officials being unable or unwilling to cooperate with JB anymore. 

ETA   Another aspect of the warehouse I had questioned before went beyond windows.    It's a portion of a building, a building that from pictures seems to imply is being used for other purposes, including activities regarding vehicles, which have emissions that can be deadly.  There are specific ways that the living space has to be separated from the garage-type space to protect the occupants from vehicle emissions.  I don't know all the technical aspects throwing up a wall alone won't do it, there are specific requirements to manage that.   There also has to be a full height firewall between the garage-type space and the living quarters all the way up to the roof.   I may not know the technical details, but I am aware of the need for these safety protections.  Does anyone think any of the Duggars knows and understands the technical requirements and how to achieve them better than me?   I personally doubt it.

Edited May 3, 2021 by Tikichick

[Natalie68]

37 minutes ago, crazy8s said:

this seems unfair to the two recently married - no evidence to believe Jed! or Justin were involved in any such thing.

I do believe there was a set up to marry them of to families with jobs or had their own money. If the Jana and Jer courting with Wissmanns has any truth it, it would be the same. Marrying them to other fundies with a legit family business.

Yikes!  I think I wasn't clear.  I don't think Jed or Justin were up to anything.  I put this all on JB.  He can see his legacy dying before his eyes and doesn't want the Josh taint touching anyone else.  In the real world we know that Josh's issues are his own and whoever may have hurt him.

[MsJamieDornan]

3 hours ago, JoanArc said:

Jer is walking down Santa Monica boulevard dressed like Vivian from pretty woman trying to sell ANYTHING to ANYONE.

I haven't laughed this hard in a long time,,thank you.

[Gigi43]

1 hour ago, lulu69 said:

Other posters seem to be of the opinion that Smuggar will have no say regarding his case and whether it goes trial or not, that Blob & Benzo hold the power. I strongly disagree.

Imho, the pervert holds all the power. He knows where all JB's proverbial bodies are buried, all of JB financial shenanigans and of all the messed up bullshit that has occurred in the family since day 1. If Smug truly feels his life is inescapable shit then he has nothing to lose and a person with nothing to lose is very dangerous. If I was JB I'd be very nervous right about now.

Actually, if Smug sings he has the potential to not only take down the Duggar empire but potentially other gothard families and gothard himself. Part of me wonders if the Fed's plan is to nail Smuggar or if they have bigger fish to fry. Ymmv.

 

 

I've said the same thing. Specifically, I think Josh could have the IRS on JB's ass quick at the minimum. He absolutely knows where all the proverbial bodies are buried.  I haven't ruled out that Josh was caught as they were frying the bigger fish, that his IP address came up as they took down the website he dl'd from.

 

41 minutes ago, IndianPaintbrush said:

 

I see where you're coming from, however I believe Josh will never risk being financially cut off. He may not care about Anna and the kids, but he definitely cares about himself, and finding a real job is the last thing he wants to do. Besides, who is gonna believe anything he says?

 

People get wild when they're desperate. If Josh has a lot of blackmail they can't cut him off because he could turn them in after if they cut him off.

 

FWIW I saw people on Reddit theorizing maybe Josiah turned Josh in on the sly since he watched the hearing and was working at the car lot. I tend to think not but that would be amazing for someone in the family to have. 

 

If Josh is released on bond, will the 3rd party will have to actually be home a lot to monitor him? Or would it just be in their best interest to? If Josh were to have contact with minors or use the internet (if no internet is a condition) I take it there will be a penalty on the 3rd party? That's a lot to ask of anyone. Clearly vouching for Josh and trusting him does not work out well for those who do.

 

The woman who accused Josh has weighed in, obviously hoping he goes to jail.

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9537707/Former-porn-star-accused-Josh-Duggar-brutal-rape-says-hopes-hes-jailed-forever.html

Edited May 3, 2021 by Gigi43

[crazy8s]

13 minutes ago, Natalie68 said:

Yikes!  I think I wasn't clear.  I don't think Jed or Justin were up to anything.  I put this all on JB.  He can see his legacy dying before his eyes and doesn't want the Josh taint touching anyone else.  In the real world we know that Josh's issues are his own and whoever may have hurt him.

I only responded because to paint all of the boys to be seen as potential offenders did not sit right with me.

I think among their crowd they know who the offenders are. sadly sometimes they don't care - Pa Keller supposedly knew of past things and gave anna off to the sex pest anyway

[Zella]

This is a question for our people with federal experience, but if you are in Josh's position of being charged with possessing images of child sexual abuse, and your effort to get a plea deal is "my dad does shady financial shit I could tell you about," are the feds really particularly interested in playing ball with you? My gut instinct is they'd probably laugh in his face, but maybe I'm wrong. 

[Tuxcat]

With regards to the warehouse, I think that has been 99 percent proven. It has a full kitchen, wood floors and a reasonable family room, however we've never seen the upstairs or other rooms. From the outside it appears to have doors but not windows. So its likely not to code. It's a step down from their 3000 house which they sold in 2019.

One has to wonder about money. Josh and his 7 in a warehouse. Jessa and her 4 in a two bedroom (and husband Ben tutoring or doing whatever for the kids). Kendra and Joe on the property with their 3,  living in grandmas log cabin. John David and his baby living in the trailer. And a long line of "boys" buying and selling cars as a means of employment. 

Like someone said, you don't marry a Duggar and expect lavish living unless you are lucky enough to get a honeymoon to some place courtesy of TLC.

How does everyone support themselves and could they ever be independent from JB? Seems doubtful. So if you stay on the train, you have to agree to paying out to feed all those people who keep reproducing.  The only way out is to marry out and hope your spouse is somehow employable.

[Tikichick]

6 minutes ago, Zella said:

This is a question for our people with federal experience, but if you are in Josh's position of being charged with possessing images of child sexual abuse, and your effort to get a plea deal is "my dad does shady financial shit I could tell you about," are the feds really particularly interested in playing ball with you? My gut instinct is they'd probably laugh in his face, but maybe I'm wrong. 

IDK about feds specifically, but my local experience here is that prosecutors will not make deals on anything regarding sexually abusing children.   It's so beyond the pale of civilized society that it's unquestionably recognized as being impossible to make deals if you want to survive politically.   I have no idea if the political aspect is equally acute in the federal arena or not.

[Churchhoney]

1 hour ago, Oldernowiser said:

I agree...however, JB may not know how much Josh knows. The guy who wrote that AMA on Reddit said that Josh is very tech-savvy and I’m guessing JB isn’t. If JB uses a computer for any of his financial stuff Josh would have been able to access it.

Even if everything is hard copy and locked up I can’t see that stopping Josh for too long.

In a way, I can see Josh trying this.

But just like everybody, I guess, I have hunches about Josh's real predilections and traits. And he's always struck me as sleazy and arrogant but also basically a weak, cowardly, limp, soft, no-initiative mama's-and-daddy's-little-boy when push comes to shove....So ultimately I don't see him trying any particular aggressive ploy at this point....I think whatever it is, he, personally, is likely to mainly crumple....and whine. 

I suppose part of that comes from seeing him cry in the damn driveway when he was moving to DC.....Nothing about him says "strong and tough" to me, even his crimes. Pick on the smallest...What's next? Be one of those guys who rapes half-dead old ladies in the nursing home? I can see him being that type, but not anything that calls for more actual guts. 

That weird weak smile in the mug shot. Drink or drugs probably. But hell, some people smile broadly and defiantly in a mug shot. Not him. 

So I wonder whether he could actually betray people in an aggressive, active way. I sort of picture him being too much of a scaredy cat to ever even try it. 

Maybe seeing him as wimpy is just wishful thinking on my part, though.....

Edited May 3, 2021 by Churchhoney

[ginger90]

An example of “third party” custodian questionnaire:

https://nce.fd.org/sites/nce.fd.org/files/publications/3rd party custodian questionnaire.pdf

[MsJamieDornan]

20 minutes ago, Zella said:

your effort to get a plea deal is "my dad does shady financial shit I could tell you about," are the feds really particularly interested in playing ball with you? My gut instinct is they'd probably laugh in his face, but maybe I'm wrong. 

You're right, they would laugh.

 

Well, let me change that. They might care, but they would laugh if they thought he thought his charges would go away.

Edited May 3, 2021 by MsJamieDornan

[Zella]

5 minutes ago, MsJamieDornan said:

You're right, they would laugh.

 

Well, let me change that. They might care, but they would laugh if they thought he thought his charges would go away.

Yeah I could see them being like "Thanks for the tip, buddy. You're still building a lot of time." 

Most of what I know about cooperating witnesses is from mob stuff* and not these types of crimes, but in those, just the fact that you're willing to squeal is not an automatic get-out-of-jail-free card, and I don't see how this would be any different.  

*purely of the armchair variety of knowledge :) 

Edited May 3, 2021 by Zella

[WinnieWinkle]

16 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

So I wonder whether he could actually betray people in an aggressive, active way. I sort of picture him being too much of a scaredy cat to ever even try it. 

Something about staring at 20 years in prison might convince him to cooperate with the authorities if he thought it would lessen his sentence.  As others are noting though that's not likely to happen,

 

[Minivanessa]

13 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

An example of “third party” custodian questionnaire:

https://nce.fd.org/sites/nce.fd.org/files/publications/3rd party custodian questionnaire.pdf

Thanks for sharing that. It was my understanding that the third party custodian referred to for Josh, wouldn't be just some patsy that JB picked out. The court's not playing, and neither is the US Attorney's Office. I'd expect that level of due diligence to be demonstrated before Josh would be released on bond - and especially with regard to the "no minor children in the home" statement. I'm sure his St. Louis lawyer is schooling the relevant Duggars (Josh, JB, and Michelle) on all this right now.

[Minivanessa]

6 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

Here's a Western District of Arkansas search page on Project Safe Childhood. There are many similar cases. While the project deals with other crimes, too, possession and sometimes receipt of images are the most common, not surprisingly. The sentences tend to be between 6 and 8 years. But you can see for yourself in this list -- 

https://search.justice.gov/search?query=project+safe+childhood&op=Search&affiliate=justice-usao-arw

Thanks for sharing that. It seems that the federal prosecutors in that district have hardly been sitting on their butts just waiting to unfairly persecute a fine fundamental Christian like Josh. They've been actively prosecuting numerous folks in that part of the world for those crimes. So much for the "he's being persecuted unfairly because he's a Christian" argument. Not that the facts would dissuade some true believers, but I think the facts would show most people that there ain't no special persecution of Joshie going on here.

[MsJamieDornan]

4 minutes ago, Jeeves said:

It was my understanding that the third party custodian referred to for Josh, wouldn't be just some patsy that JB picked out. The court's not playing, and neither is the US Attorney's Office.

You're right, they are not playing. The only thing JBooger has control of in this whole thing is paying lawyer bills. Nothing else.

[Oldernowiser]

When is his bail hearing again?

Or is that called something else, like an arraignment? #clueless

[Zella]

8 minutes ago, Jeeves said:

Thanks for sharing that. It was my understanding that the third party custodian referred to for Josh, wouldn't be just some patsy that JB picked out. The court's not playing, and neither is the US Attorney's Office. I'd expect that level of due diligence to be demonstrated before Josh would be released on bond - and especially with regard to the "no minor children in the home" statement. I'm sure his St. Louis lawyer is schooling the relevant Duggars (Josh, JB, and Michelle) on all this right now.

I suspect in much the same way that Josh is used to being enabled and is about to get a very unwelcome dose of reality, Jim Bob--who is used to getting his way--is getting ready to be schooled big time on what a very small fish in the pond he is. 

1 minute ago, Oldernowiser said:

When is his bail hearing again?

Or is that called something else, like an arraignment? #clueless

It's his bond hearing and yes is on Wednesday. 

Edited May 3, 2021 by Zella