Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[JoanArc]

Quote

I thought he frantically called his parents to come home from dinner out and confessed.

Ah...date night before they they were famous.

 

I think part of the confession story is there are probably many times he was caught or confessed. He did this at least 5 times. Probably caught once or twice, then pulled  'Ooops, I did it again' confessions. In the Kelly interview I remember Michelle saying, or implying they new about prior incidents (she left out they hadn't acted) but they didn't remove Josh from the home until he went after Joy.

Lawsuit update

Quote

In the complaint filed in LA Superior Court, McCarthy claimed that his high school teacher called him and informed him that Josh had used his photos, and that the teacher then inquired if McCarthy had engaged in a sexual relationship with Josh.

After that, McCarthy says he was flooded with calls, emails, and other communications from family, friends, professional partners, and even strangers asking about his connection to Josh’s scandal.

Making matters worse for the working DJ, McCarthy claimed in court documents that he had been called Duggar’s Boy Toy and DJ Duggar, among other epithets.

Honestly, I have no problem giving this guy $25k for the humiliation.

[Sew Sumi]

The storyteller called Boob and Mechelle at their dinner destination. It is not clear that Josh was the storyteller, only that the storyteller had a four letter name. That's why people suspect it was Jill who was the storyteller with Joy sitting on Josh's lap, listening. That story is rather vague, but I seriously doubt that Smuggar abused Joy then immediately rushed to a phone to call his parents while out on a date night. Jill? I totally see it. 

[Missy Vixen]

6 hours ago, Mollie said:

Does that really sound like something Josh would do, just suddenly start feeling remorseful and confess to something that nobody else knew about?  I just have trouble believing that. 

 Just throwing this one out here. Why do we think KJB and J-Chelle are telling the truth about this? They lie about so many other things big and small; why would they tell the truth about the discovery of activity in their house that had the potential to cost them the custody of their children and send them both to jail? I think they've been lying for years. We know Joshley Madison is quite a liar, too.

How do you think this really went down?

My theory: Jana caught Joshley Madison. This would explain a few things.

[RazzleberryPie]

9 minutes ago, Missy Vixen said:

How do you think this really went down?

My theory: Jana caught Joshley Madison. This would explain a few things.

That is highly plausible and explains a few things to me, mainly 1) another reason why Michelle hates Jana - she blew the whistle on the Golden Child and upset Michelle's fantasy world, 2) Jana is so protective of the babies and younger siblings, even though she acts like they wear her out, 3) Jessa detests Jana - Jana wasn't victimized.

I still think they haven't forced - er - insisted that the Lord laid it upon their hearts and she must be submissve and obedient - her into marriage is because Michelle needs someone to run her house, not because Jana knows dirt. Jana probably does know more dirt than anyone but the Dirt Makers, but she'd leverage that into letting her marry if she actually met someone she wanted to marry.

[Westiepeach]

13 minutes ago, RazzleberryPie said:

That is highly plausible and explains a few things to me, mainly 1) another reason why Michelle hates Jana - she blew the whistle on the Golden Child and upset Michelle's fantasy world, 2) Jana is so protective of the babies and younger siblings, even though she acts like they wear her out, 3) Jessa detests Jana - Jana wasn't victimized.

I still think they haven't forced - er - insisted that the Lord laid it upon their hearts and she must be submissve and obedient - her into marriage is because Michelle needs someone to run her house, not because Jana knows dirt. Jana probably does know more dirt than anyone but the Dirt Makers, but she'd leverage that into letting her marry if she actually met someone she wanted to marry.

You are good, Razz. So very good.

[Churchhoney]

2 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I thought he frantically called his parents to come home from dinner out and confessed.

My foggy memory is that he may have done two or more of those things. .... separate occasions -- I always thought that he may have done it partly because he knew somebody else might have seen him and partly because something he'd learned in Gothard world suggested that as long as he kept confessing in details to his umbrellas then he remained on the right side of God. .... 

So he was golden to maybe keep on doing what he clearly really really really wanted to do. 

Edited May 25, 2017 by Churchhoney

[floridamom]

I thought I heard JB tell the 'confession' story that Jill caught Joshley and went to tell them what was going on.

I also vaguely remember JB also saying that he caught Joshley coming out of the girls' bedroom one night.

Yes, I agree that JB and Michelle lie through their teeth to suit themselves...Which is correct?

When a lawsuit is filed from many years being married to a lawyer myself, the matters of the case CANNOT be discussed until after a verdict if the parties choose to do so. Why are these idiots giving an interview about this? If I were  a tv network, I wouldn't pay one dime for their stories. They should appear for free if they wish, since 'this is for future victims' and not themselves. So, why charge for the interview? I think less and less of them when I learn more and more about them.  The comments here on this board are insightful and sharp. I enjoy reading all of your posts.

[SMama]

I always wondered how MEchelle could be certain it was Jana kicking her in utero. God laid it on her lump of coal she calls a heart? 

[floridamom]

Yes, SMama, you're right about that one...Michelle had twins in there. It could have been JD doing the kicking.

I also think that Jana is a 'deep well'. Perhaps it was she who 'outed' Josh. She doesn't seem to be liked by her older sisters, she's so quiet and removed from everything, at least that's the impression she gives. Can't figure Jana out...she defies their belief system about marrying off the daughters young and quick so they can conceive as soon and as many children as possible. Jana doesn't add up to me in their equation.

[SMama]

But isn't part of fundie hood to have a stay at home daughter. You kicked me in the womb, you outed my golden child for the bottom feeder he is... just like that Jana is declared the SAHD. I know I'm reaching here. Have open house for my girl, and I don't do well with the hens who run the high school click. 

[BitterApple]

There's been some speculation that Jana is delaying marriage, but she's admitted to the contrary in a prior interview. It's not like the dating prospects get any better for these girls as they age (Exhibit A: Tabitha Paine), so there's little incentive to be overly cautious or picky. IMO, Jana is very pretty but she gives off an annoyed, standoffish vibe. She's not friendly and flirty like a Tori or Carlin Bates. Throw in the fact that she's superglued to babies at social events and it's a recipe for men avoiding her like the plague. Plus she doesn't have any girlfriends who could hook her up with eligible bachelors. Unless she flies the coop, she's screwed.

Edited May 26, 2017 by BitterApple

[drafan]

If JB and M were out on a date (gag), maybe the babysitter (5th victim) was there, caught Josh pawing her, and threatened to call the cops. So Joshley talks her out of it by promising to tell JB and M himself. JB and M get home, Joshley tells what happens (under threat) , but JB knows that the babysitter still might rat out Joshley, so runs to the cops proactively. There is NO WAY ON EARTH that Joshley voluntarily  fessed up on anything in the history of ever. Not buying it.

They are all such stinking liars. They will make the jury member's heads spin.

[JoanArc]

Quote

Joshley tells what happens (under threat) , but JB knows that the babysitter still might rat out Joshley, so runs to the cops proactively.

3 years later. He runs slow. It's because he wears jeans.

 

[doodlebug]

42 minutes ago, drafan said:

If JB and M were out on a date (gag), maybe the babysitter (5th victim) was there, caught Josh pawing her, and threatened to call the cops. So Joshley talks her out of it by promising to tell JB and M himself. JB and M get home, Joshley tells what happens (under threat) , but JB knows that the babysitter still might rat out Joshley, so runs to the cops proactively. There is NO WAY ON EARTH that Joshley voluntarily  fessed up on anything in the history of ever. Not buying it.

They are all such stinking liars. They will make the jury member's heads spin.

I absolutely agree that if someone outside the family hadn't been molested, they never would've gone to the cops ever.  And, it was probably because her parents got involved and threatened to blow the whistle themselves that JB and M turned him in in an effort to control things, which worked pretty well, for a while anyway.  With that premise, it seems clear to me that Josh likely molested his sisters more than once and that, considering they were all sleeping together in a very small room, it is highly unlikely that not a single one of the girls ever woke up.  A babysitter sleeping alone in the living room woke up but a roomful of kids sleeping practically on top of one another and nobody felt or saw or heard a thing?  And, of course, if, in fact, none of the girls knew what had happened, why would JB and M tell them specifically about it, let alone the cops?  They could've asked the girls if they'd noticed Josh sneaking into their bedroom at night or ask if he woke them up or touched them without giving them details.  Makes it obvious to me, anyway, that some of the girls, probably at least Jana, woke up and saw or heard what he was doing, maybe sounded the alarm and woke the others up and told them. 

Then, since they figured the cops would end up questioning all of the girls (or maybe even before that, when they first found out), JB and M reminded them that, if they were molested, it was because they were tempting Josh and, since they didn't cry out immediately themselves, they were just as guilty as he was.  From there, it's an easy sell to tell them the only way Jesus would excuse their brazen behavior was if they were asleep the whole time and didn't know their nightgowns were defrauding Josh and that they couldn't cry out because they were asleep and never knew what happened.  In the atmosphere in which they were raised, the girls would've followed the party line like good little sheep and repeated the version they were given by their umbrella.

If none of the older girls knew about Josh touching him while they slept, it would've never been part of the story told to the police.

Edited May 26, 2017 by doodlebug

[Churchhoney]

2 hours ago, SMama said:

I always wondered how MEchelle could be certain it was Jana kicking her in utero. God laid it on her lump of coal she calls a heart? 

A MOTY would just know. The rest of us don't get that because, you know, we're not MsOTY.  They just know.

You can tell how well she knows her kids outside the womb, right? Well, same thing inside.

[andromeda331]

20 minutes ago, doodlebug said:

I absolutely agree that if someone outside the family hadn't been molested, they never would've gone to the cops ever.  And, it was probably because her parents got involved and threatened to blow the whistle themselves that JB and M turned him in in an effort to control things, which worked pretty well, for a while anyway.  With that premise, it seems clear to me that Josh likely molested his sisters more than once and that, considering they were all sleeping together in a very small room, it is highly unlikely that not a single one of the girls ever woke up.  A babysitter sleeping alone in the living room woke up but a roomful of kids sleeping practically on top of one another and nobody felt or saw or heard a thing?  And, of course, if, in fact, none of the girls knew what had happened, why would JB and M tell them specifically about it, let alone the cops?  They could've asked the girls if they'd noticed Josh sneaking into their bedroom at night or ask if he woke them up or touched them without giving them details.  Makes it obvious to me, anyway, that some of the girls, probably at least Jana, woke up and saw or heard what he was doing, maybe sounded the alarm and woke the others up and told them. 

Then, since they figured the cops would end up questioning all of the girls (or maybe even before that, when they first found out), JB and M reminded them that, if they were molested, it was because they were tempting Josh and, since they didn't cry out immediately themselves, they were just as guilty as he was.  From there, it's an easy sell to tell them the only way Jesus would excuse their brazen behavior was if they were asleep the whole time and didn't know their nightgowns were defrauding Josh and that they couldn't cry out because they were asleep and never knew what happened.  In the atmosphere in which they were raised, the girls would've followed the party line like good little sheep and repeated the version they were given by their umbrella.

If none of the older girls knew about Josh touching him while they slept, it would've never been part of the story told to the police.

That's what makes the most sense.  They did nothing when he was molesting his sisters. Now Josh touched someone outside their family, who's parents that they couldn't control. They couldn't be sure they wouldn't go to the cops.  

[SnarkyShark]

9 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

I can't listen to anybody talking Newspeak as constantly and fluently as they do and believe that they haven't essentially had their minds and souls shut down by somebody in charge. And the ability to feel, express and accurately identify your emotions is among the first casualties of that kind of shutdown. (Although most people retain a fairly robust ability to misdirect those emotions, of course. Because, hey, you're just totally fucked up and internally sabotaged, you're not dead.)

I continually find that having your connection to your emotions and ability to understand them destroyed is one of the most depressing things about Gothardism. It is perfectly orchestrated so the victims never become aware it is happening. Emotions can be undeniably challenging, yet they are a part of being human. Being completely detached from your emotions and told that they do not matter is not at all healthy. It can subtly destroy someone, and recovering a severed connection to your emotions can be almost impossible.

[Sew Sumi]

Since this is the Smuganna thread, I will respond with Anna. If someone has detatched, it seems to be her. Miserable husband, fake smiles, band-aid baby. Recipe for diasaster. 

[SnarkyShark]

5 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

Since this is the Smuganna thread, I will respond with Anna. If someone has detatched, it seems to be her. Miserable husband, fake smiles, band-aid baby. Recipe for diasaster. 

I fear you are probably right. I wish Anna would have gone ahead and divorced him. While it wasn't the easiest or most comfortable path, it would have offered Anna and especially her kids a chance at a healthy future. However, I just don't think she had the courage. It would go against everything Anna has been taught about divorce/marriage and the role of women because she would forever be a divorcee, a lifelong reminder of her failure, and be required to take on the responsibility of supporting four kids on her own. I don't think anyone believes Smuggar would be of any help. Anna would have to find a job, yet she lacks other skills beyond homemaking. That choice would force Anna to abandon all that she was told to aspire to as a woman and adopt a role entirely foreign to her—single motherhood and earning income. So where does that leave her? I can understand why she chose to stay, but as an outsider it's hard not to lament that decision.

[Mollie]

7 hours ago, Missy Vixen said:

 Just throwing this one out here. Why do we think KJB and J-Chelle are telling the truth about this? They lie about so many other things big and small; why would they tell the truth about the discovery of activity in their house that had the potential to cost them the custody of their children and send them both to jail? I think they've been lying for years. We know Joshley Madison is quite a liar, too.

How do you think this really went down?

My theory: Jana caught Joshley Madison. This would explain a few things.

Well, it's very easy to tell when Jim Bob is lying: It's when his lips are moving.

[Jynnan tonnix]

19 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

I'm skeptical of it, too. Seems like exactly the kind of tale JB would tell to get him, Meeechelle and even Joshie off the hook.

But I also wonder whether that might have been Josh's potentially-Gothard-approvable way of getting a pass for it. And maybe even a ploy a kid who didn't actually want to stop might hope would let him keep on doing it. If you run immediately to your big umbrella and "confess" every time, then you're on the right path? Then ... ooops! I did it again! ......But then you go confess again. And it seemed to work for a git, anyway.

Great typo!

[Churchhoney]

46 minutes ago, Jynnan tonnix said:

Great typo!

Thanks! I noticed that earlier and was going to change it. But then I thought -- No, it's quite accurate the way it is. lol

[lascuba]

On 5/25/2017 at 0:34 PM, Mollie said:

There's one thing about the released police interviews that puzzles me.  According to Jim Bob and Michelle, after the first few sexual molestations, nobody but Josh knew that they were happening.  The victims didn't know and the parents didn't know.

Then, one day in March, 2002, Josh went to Jim Bob and was "very upset and crying."  He told Jim Bob that "he had been sneaking into [redacted] room at night while [redacted] had been touching [redacted] on the breasts and vaginal areas while [redacted] were sleeping."

Then in July of 2002, Josh fondles again and again goes running to confess to Jim Bob.

Does that really sound like something Josh would do, just suddenly start feeling remorseful and confess to something that nobody else knew about?  I just have trouble believing that. 

I know this could be willful naivety on my part, but I can easily believe that Josh confessed the first time after touching the girls in their sleep. How much it was about true fear of his compulsions and remorse or simply gaming their system is anyone's guess, but it does seem plausible to me that the first anyone knew of it was when Josh told them. After that, though? Nah. Someone saw him come out of the girls room at night; he assaulted Jinger in the laundry room when she was very much awake; and he molested Joy in a roomful of people. Yeah, maybe he "confessed" to those things after being confronted, but no way did JB/M first hear of those incidents from Josh. I think when Josh confessed that first time and got off relatively lightly, he continued with his behavior and escalated, because he knew he could get away with it--he knew his parents were arrogant and stupid enough to believe that their punishment would be enough to stop Josh from continuing.

Interested thought on Jana, and I hadn't considered that she could be the whistleblower. But it does make a lot of sense...the radio interview she and her sisters did several years ago has alway stuck in my mind, how she said she was having a hard time forgiving a member of the family and it was because she was prideful and she needed to work on that. I had always assumed it was Anna she had a problem with, but after the scandal, Josh seems the obvious answer. In and her and her family's minds, not forgiving him would make Jana "prideful" because he hadn't molested her so why was she hung up on it when his victims were outwardly fine with everything?

[Churchhoney]

17 minutes ago, lascuba said:

I know this could be willful naivety on my part, but I can easily believe that Josh confessed the first time after touching the girls in their sleep. How much it was about true fear of his compulsions and remorse or simply gaming their system is anyone's guess, but it does seem plausible to me that the first anyone knew of it was when Josh told them. After that, though? Nah. Someone saw him come out of the girls room at night; he assaulted Jinger in the laundry room when she was very much awake; and he molested Joy in a roomful of people. Yeah, maybe he "confessed" to those things after being confronted, but no way did JB/M first hear of those incidents from Josh. I think when Josh confessed that first time and got off relatively lightly, he continued with his behavior and escalated, because he knew he could get away with it--he knew his parents were arrogant and stupid enough to believe that their punishment would be enough to stop Josh from continuing.

Interested thought on Jana, and I hadn't considered that she could be the whistleblower. But it does make a lot of sense...the radio interview she and her sisters did several years ago has alway stuck in my mind, how she said she was having a hard time forgiving a member of the family and it was because she was prideful and she needed to work on that. I had always assumed it was Anna she had a problem with, but after the scandal, Josh seems the obvious answer. In and her and her family's minds, not forgiving him would make Jana "prideful" because he hadn't molested her so why was she hung up on it when his victims were outwardly fine with everything?

Boy howdy. Your Jana forgiveness theory could well be.

Gotta love a religious philosophy that could brand somebody "prideful" because they had trouble forgiving a person who committed multiple, escalating acts of intra-family child sexual molestation and still went on to be the family's smug-and-arrogant golden boy. A religious philosophy that grinds this shit into people so thoroughly that that person a decade-plus later still thinks that she's the one who has to work on herself and her virtue. 

Not sure there are a whole lot of things sicker and more backwards than that. And yet we're supposed to take it as just another of those quaint and adorable things that the wonderful tv role-model-for-America's-most-virtuous Duggar family does just a little different. 

Edited May 27, 2017 by Churchhoney

[Scarlett45]

58 minutes ago, lascuba said:

I know this could be willful naivety on my part, but I can easily believe that Josh confessed the first time after touching the girls in their sleep. How much it was about true fear of his compulsions and remorse or simply gaming their system is anyone's guess, but it does seem plausible to me that the first anyone knew of it was when Josh told them. After that, though? Nah. Someone saw him come out of the girls room at night; he assaulted Jinger in the laundry room when she was very much awake; and he molested Joy in a roomful of people. Yeah, maybe he "confessed" to those things after being confronted, but no way did JB/M first hear of those incidents from Josh. I think when Josh confessed that first time and got off relatively lightly, he continued with his behavior and escalated, because he knew he could get away with it--he knew his parents were arrogant and stupid enough to believe that their punishment would be enough to stop Josh from continuing.

Interested thought on Jana, and I hadn't considered that she could be the whistleblower. But it does make a lot of sense...the radio interview she and her sisters did several years ago has alway stuck in my mind, how she said she was having a hard time forgiving a member of the family and it was because she was prideful and she needed to work on that. I had always assumed it was Anna she had a problem with, but after the scandal, Josh seems the obvious answer. In and her and her family's minds, not forgiving him would make Jana "prideful" because he hadn't molested her so why was she hung up on it when his victims were outwardly fine with everything?

I could most certainly see Jana being the whistle blower and never toeing the party line that all was forgiven regarding Josh. 

I don't quite know how to put this, and I start off by saying I don't know how it feels to be in a situation like this so I would never want to tell the victims how to feel, but based on things that have been told to me molestation between siblings occurs when the perp has been molested themselves and may be "acting out" or re-enacting something that happened to them (not that it makes it ok). I just don't understand what would compel Josh to do such a thing, and I can believe that pure ignorance on the part of the older victims was a cognizant dissonance to what was going on- but Jana got everything. 

Back in the day when I first heard the rumors I did NOT believe at all Josh touched his sisters or assaulted someone. I honestly thought that he had be caught in a normal age approximate make out session with a girl his age who's Dad got mad and the rumor mills started turning. If I thought that and I don't love Josh, I can see how the victims could twist things mentally and maybe tell Jana it wasn't a big deal until Jana saw it with her own eyes (but not JB &Michelle- hellz no excuses for them). 

[RazzleberryPie]

15 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

Back in the day when I first heard the rumors I did NOT believe at all Josh touched his sisters or assaulted someone. I honestly thought that he had be caught in a normal age approximate make out session with a girl his age who's Dad got mad and the rumor mills started turning. If I thought that and I don't love Josh, I can see how the victims could twist things mentally and maybe tell Jana it wasn't a big deal until Jana saw it with her own eyes (but not JB &Michelle- hellz no excuses for them). 

I didn't believe it either. I was sure he was fooling around with some preacher's daughter and they got caught, her dad was mad, she was ashamed, they called him a perv. I wish that had been correct.

[queenanne]

15 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I could most certainly see Jana being the whistle blower and never toeing the party line that all was forgiven regarding Josh. 

I don't quite know how to put this, and I start off by saying I don't know how it feels to be in a situation like this so I would never want to tell the victims how to feel, but based on things that have been told to me molestation between siblings occurs when the perp has been molested themselves and may be "acting out" or re-enacting something that happened to them (not that it makes it ok). I just don't understand what would compel Josh to do such a thing, and I can believe that pure ignorance on the part of the older victims was a cognizant dissonance to what was going on- but Jana got everything. 

Back in the day when I first heard the rumors I did NOT believe at all Josh touched his sisters or assaulted someone. I honestly thought that he had be caught in a normal age approximate make out session with a girl his age who's Dad got mad and the rumor mills started turning. If I thought that and I don't love Josh, I can see how the victims could twist things mentally and maybe tell Jana it wasn't a big deal until Jana saw it with her own eyes (but not JB &Michelle- hellz no excuses for them). 

Don't the Duggars still call it "experimentation", though?  Or at least did, at the time of the confessions?  Thus you can see someone outside the situation thinking it.  Which is ridiculous; "experimentation", is "playing doctor", which is "a mutual thing that takes place amongst peers".  

Also, if some of those molested-while-asleep are in fact the older ones, I think they were certainly old enough to put two and two together:  who says they believed "Josh's description" of what happened in the first place?  Wouldn't that give you the night terrors?  "I was asleep; how do I know what he did before I woke up"?  I've seen secular advice columnists shrieking that 15-year-old developmentally delayed teenagers with issues are still injurious molesters who shouldn't be trusted around their victims again.  (Also makes me wonder in retrospect, about that time when the Duggars split the household between two different literal physical houses.)

Edited May 28, 2017 by queenanne

[GeeGolly]

19 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I could most certainly see Jana being the whistle blower and never toeing the party line that all was forgiven regarding Josh. 

I don't quite know how to put this, and I start off by saying I don't know how it feels to be in a situation like this so I would never want to tell the victims how to feel, but based on things that have been told to me molestation between siblings occurs when the perp has been molested themselves and may be "acting out" or re-enacting something that happened to them (not that it makes it ok). I just don't understand what would compel Josh to do such a thing, and I can believe that pure ignorance on the part of the older victims was a cognizant dissonance to what was going on- but Jana got everything. 

Back in the day when I first heard the rumors I did NOT believe at all Josh touched his sisters or assaulted someone. I honestly thought that he had be caught in a normal age approximate make out session with a girl his age who's Dad got mad and the rumor mills started turning. If I thought that and I don't love Josh, I can see how the victims could twist things mentally and maybe tell Jana it wasn't a big deal until Jana saw it with her own eyes (but not JB &Michelle- hellz no excuses for them). 

Sometimes that is true, but actually most folks that have been molested don't become offenders themselves. And not all perps have been victims. 

I honestly think it was Josh's curiosity. Not normal curiosity though. Nothing is normal in that family; they have very poor boundaries and are enmeshed. It seems to me that Gothard has an obsession with sex and much of his teachings revolve around it; purity, modesty, masturbation, etc. Add to that JB's & M's obsession with making blessings, posting a menstrual calendar on the fridge and speaking openly about sex in a teasing way. I think this environment piqued the Duggar kids' interest in sex way earlier and more strongly than the average kid.

I'm certainly not making excuses for Josh's behaviors, however it went down was wrong.

20 hours ago, lascuba said:

I know this could be willful naivety on my part, but I can easily believe that Josh confessed the first time after touching the girls in their sleep. How much it was about true fear of his compulsions and remorse or simply gaming their system is anyone's guess, but it does seem plausible to me that the first anyone knew of it was when Josh told them. After that, though? Nah. Someone saw him come out of the girls room at night; he assaulted Jinger in the laundry room when she was very much awake; and he molested Joy in a roomful of people. Yeah, maybe he "confessed" to those things after being confronted, but no way did JB/M first hear of those incidents from Josh. I think when Josh confessed that first time and got off relatively lightly, he continued with his behavior and escalated, because he knew he could get away with it--he knew his parents were arrogant and stupid enough to believe that their punishment would be enough to stop Josh from continuing.

Interested thought on Jana, and I hadn't considered that she could be the whistleblower. But it does make a lot of sense...the radio interview she and her sisters did several years ago has alway stuck in my mind, how she said she was having a hard time forgiving a member of the family and it was because she was prideful and she needed to work on that. I had always assumed it was Anna she had a problem with, but after the scandal, Josh seems the obvious answer. In and her and her family's minds, not forgiving him would make Jana "prideful" because he hadn't molested her so why was she hung up on it when his victims were outwardly fine with everything?

I think Josh and Jill both reported Josh's misdeeds to JB & M. Jill has consistently been called the perfect child and the tattler. I do agree that Jana has had a hard time forgiving Josh. Jana was parentified at a very young age, so her lack of forgiveness might be complicated with a little bit of survivor's guilt, meaning she was not touched, as well as feeling that maybe she didn't protect her younger sisters.

[Mollie]

4 hours ago, queenanne said:

Don't the Duggars still call it "experimentation", though?  Or at least did, at the time of the confessions?  Thus you can see someone outside the situation thinking it.  Which is ridiculous; "experimentation", is "playing doctor", which is "a mutual thing that takes place amongst peers".  

They call it "too curious about girls."

That kind of 'curiosity' is something a 4-year-old might have.  At 14 or 15, it's not curiosity.  Josh had already spent lots of time viewing pornography on the Internet and knew all about the physical differences between male and female.

At his age, it was not curiosity; it was sexual assault and sexual arousal.  That's one of the reasons why in Arkansas a 14-year-old molester of children is tried as an adult, not as a juvenile.

[BetyBee]

On 5/25/2017 at 6:04 PM, RazzleberryPie said:

That is highly plausible and explains a few things to me, mainly 1) another reason why Michelle hates Jana - she blew the whistle on the Golden Child and upset Michelle's fantasy world, 2) Jana is so protective of the babies and younger siblings, even though she acts like they wear her out, 3) Jessa detests Jana - Jana wasn't victimized.

I still think they haven't forced - er - insisted that the Lord laid it upon their hearts and she must be submissve and obedient - her into marriage is because Michelle needs someone to run her house, not because Jana knows dirt. Jana probably does know more dirt than anyone but the Dirt Makers, but she'd leverage that into letting her marry if she actually met someone she wanted to marry.

This makes total sense to me.  I know dysfunctional families firsthand and this is the type of thinking/grudge holding that happens

[Annb67]

1 hour ago, Mollie said:

They call it "too curious about girls."

That kind of 'curiosity' is something a 4-year-old might have.  At 14 or 15, it's not curiosity.  Josh had already spent lots of time viewing pornography on the Internet and knew all about the physical differences between male and female.

At his age, it was not curiosity; it was sexual assault and sexual arousal.  That's one of the reasons why in Arkansas a 14-year-old molester of children is tried as an adult, not as a juvenile.

Also IMHO josh felt entitled. The way men are moved to king status in Gothardland is sickening.

[EVS]

34 minutes ago, Annb67 said:

Also IMHO josh felt entitled. The way men are moved to king status in Gothardland is sickening.

I agree with this. Ever since I read "I Fired God", I can easily see how Josh felt entitled to molest his sisters.

Edited May 28, 2017 by EVS

[Scarlett45]

33 minutes ago, Annb67 said:

Also IMHO josh felt entitled. The way men are moved to king status in Gothardland is sickening.

Yes I think Josh felt entitled as well. "Curiosity" would not lead him to do something that would scare and traumatize his sisters, over and over again. 

[Mollie]

28 minutes ago, Annb67 said:

Also IMHO josh felt entitled. The way men are moved to king status in Gothardland is sickening.

Josh felt that way because he was treated as if he was entitled.  The molestations were known about at the time the first special was being filmed.  Even so, Josh was put on a pedestal and displayed as the crown prince of the family and king of the kids.  He did a lot of the narration for the TV show and was even allowed to privately film things that TLC bought from him and put on the show.  In short, the perpetrator was exalted and the victims were demeaned. 

What that means is that all of the girls and the boys were under Josh's leadership and had to submit to his 'authority.'   

[Churchhoney]

11 minutes ago, Mollie said:

Josh felt that way because he was treated as if he was entitled.  The molestations were known about at the time the first special was being filmed.  Even so, Josh was put on a pedestal and displayed as the crown prince of the family and king of the kids.  He did a lot of the narration for the TV show and was even allowed to privately film things that TLC bought from him and put on the show.  In short, the perpetrator was exalted and the victims were demeaned. 

What that means is that all of the girls and the boys were under Josh's leadership and had to submit to his 'authority.'   

And that's pure Gothard. Which of course JB was completely committed to making pure Duggar as well. In this system, the shame and blame get pushed down to the lowliest victim who is not only responsible for saying "Hey! NBD!" but is also required to ensure that blame is always always always deflected from those at the very top, who intend to remain objects of veneration or else. Josh is in kind of a middle position in the hierarchy, so he sometimes gets blamed and sometimes not.

It's just power mongering and manipulation of the masses 101,  carried out at the family level. Humans being pack animals, we tend to fall for it -- both when it's happening to us and when it's right in front of our eyes in other families it but we fail to notice or believe what's really going on. And so it goes on and on and on.

That shit-eating grin that's perpetually on Jim Bob's dim but "sly" face shows clearly how well he knows that he's putting it over on his family and on the whole world and pretty much believes that he'll never have to stop. I hope that he's really really really sweating for money these days because I can't imagine what else he'll ever feel as a significant threat. Since he's apparently been able to brainwash his kids completely and the tv audience as much as he needs to.

 

Sickening mess.

Edited May 28, 2017 by Churchhoney

[queenanne]

I would submit that at 15 years of age, Josh was already a sex addict.  Only addiction explains being compelled to abuse sibling after sibling (not that I wanted him to have a favorite and zero his attention on one child victim; but since clearly, "one wasn't enough" to feast upon, despite the fear of discovery).  He clearly acted out of some sort of obsessive-compulsion.  Major parenting fail in this treatment method.

[lascuba]

17 minutes ago, Mollie said:

Josh felt that way because he was treated as if he was entitled.  The molestations were known about at the time the first special was being filmed.  Even so, Josh was put on a pedestal and displayed as the crown prince of the family and king of the kids.  He did a lot of the narration for the TV show and was even allowed to privately film things that TLC bought from him and put on the show.  In short, the perpetrator was exalted and the victims were demeaned. 

What that means is that all of the girls and the boys were under Josh's leadership and had to submit to his 'authority.'   

Well, damn, I knew all this, but I hadn't considered the implications until you stated it this way. At the time that Jill, Jessa, Jim Bob and Michelle swore up and down that Josh was being punished for his actions and making amends and earning back their trust, he was actually being put in the spotlight and celebrated as the golden Duggar, the natural born leader of his siblings and the one headed for great things. Holy shit.

[JoanArc]

40 minutes ago, queenanne said:

I would submit that at 15 years of age, Josh was already a sex addict.  Only addiction explains being compelled to abuse sibling after sibling (not that I wanted him to have a favorite and zero his attention on one child victim; but since clearly, "one wasn't enough" to feast upon, despite the fear of discovery).  He clearly acted out of some sort of obsessive-compulsion.  Major parenting fail in this treatment method.

I'd vote narcissism, too. It's clear Jim Bob and Michelle, narcususts themselves, seem to identify with Josh more than any of the other kids.

[Churchhoney]

45 minutes ago, lascuba said:

Well, damn, I knew all this, but I hadn't considered the implications until you stated it this way. At the time that Jill, Jessa, Jim Bob and Michelle swore up and down that Josh was being punished for his actions and making amends and earning back their trust, he was actually being put in the spotlight and celebrated as the golden Duggar, the natural born leader of his siblings and the one headed for great things. Holy shit.

Yeah, and this idea is in their blood. I seem to remember at least the Dillards talking and maybe the Seewalds too (?) about the blessing of firstborn son being already on the way to being the leader of the family's children as a tiny infant (s). .... This always needing a "leader" thing is a real problem with these cultists. Opens the door for all kinds of crap.

And it drives me crazy that after the mess that's been the Duggar life, nobody in the damn family -- not even the women who ought to know the horrors of being at the bottom of that ladder -- seems to have dropped that language/concepts.

So the girls had to be, at the very least, deeply deeply conflicted about the whole Josh situation, both as it was happening and after, seems to me. No matter how brainwashed you were into this leader thing, there still had to be facts on the ground that caused some level of cognitive dissonance, even though they were certainly also schooled to squelch any hint of that that they ever felt. 

[Sew Sumi]

1 hour ago, queenanne said:

I would submit that at 15 years of age, Josh was already a sex addict.  Only addiction explains being compelled to abuse sibling after sibling (not that I wanted him to have a favorite and zero his attention on one child victim; but since clearly, "one wasn't enough" to feast upon, despite the fear of discovery).  He clearly acted out of some sort of obsessive-compulsion.  Major parenting fail in this treatment method.

Yup, Smuggar is what you get when you handle a situation like this "in house" as Boob put it in the Megyn Kelly interview. He was in no way contrite; it was quite the opposite as his parents built him up as some sort of exhalted prince.

[Churchhoney]

25 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

Yup, Smuggar is what you get when you handle a situation like this "in house" as Boob put it in the Megyn Kelly interview. He was in no way contrite; it was quite the opposite as his parents built him up as some sort of exhalted prince.

I'll never forget my horror and amazement when I watched some of the early tv stuff on youtube a few years ago-- can't remember now whether I watched it before or after the whole mess came out.  I swear I've never seen a teenage boy with quite the smarmy smug entitled air that Josh gave off. And I taught high school for years and thought I'd seen it all. He was like a caricature of the proverbial brat born with a silver spoon in his mouth. And that stuff was filmed shortly after and even kind of in the middle of this disaster. And somehow he managed not to look phased by it at all. Seemed to me then that he clearly has a character disorder -- and one that was worsened by his parents' absurd treatment of him and of the other kids.

Once again I'm biased. My chief perp was a first child with a clear character disorder, visible apparently from birth, whose parents greatly worsened it because in terror and ignorance of how they might handle the situation they gave that kid as much as they could in hopes that kowtowing would keep the household from being destroyed. When you're the undisputed house dictator from birth your sense of entitlement may know no bounds, quite early in your lifetime. Reigns of terror over younger siblings? Check. "Curious" about sex and surrounded by a bunch of cringing little kids you can try stuff out on? Check.

I remember the Duggar thoughts about how you're supposed to obey your in-charge siblings instantly. That wouldn't be a bad message to send about a character-disordered spoiled-beyond-rotten older sib. No.

All that said, I think Josh has a huge side of insecurity and fear to him as well and that, if his parents hadn't handled him so badly, he wouldn't have turned into quite such a monster, just a more run-of-the-mill jerk. But he got the full Gothard-land recommended oldest-son treatment, I expect. Lethal.

Edited May 28, 2017 by Churchhoney

[kokapetl]

On 26/05/2017 at 4:02 AM, Celia Rubenstein said:

I thought Jim Bob caught him coming out of the girls's's room in the middle of the night and that is when he "confessed."

It's been a long time, not sure I am remembering correctly. 

No, you are correct. One version of the FOI documents made it clear that Josh came crying to Jimbob and confessed.  

[bigskygirl]

In my opinion, Josh still would have turn out to be a major creep who thinks he is a lady's man who thinks women are property and would have no respect for others even if he grew up in a normal and happy home. He also probably would have thought he is above the law and no one could ever touch him for the nasty things he would have done without JB and Michelle's bad parenting.  He reminds me of a creepy, stalker guy in a bad Lifetime movie. Actually, all the of the Duggar men over the age of eighteen give me the creeps.

[questionfear]

40 minutes ago, bigskygirl said:

In my opinion, Josh still would have turn out to be a major creep who thinks he is a lady's man who thinks women are property and would have no respect for others even if he grew up in a normal and happy home. He also probably would have thought he is above the law and no one could ever touch him for the nasty things he would have done without JB and Michelle's bad parenting.  He reminds me of a creepy, stalker guy in a bad Lifetime movie. Actually, all the of the Duggar men over the age of eighteen give me the creeps.

Agreed about Josh, I think his issues come from something deeper than just environment, and while environment might have created the specific circumstances he would probably be a jerk in any context. 

It's so hard to say how each of the kids would be since most of them wouldnt exist without JB's need for an army of zombie children.  

[JoanArc]

I feel like this should be mandatory reading at this point to try to keep all he lies straight. I'm sure the deposition team is pouring through it.

Over the clohes, or whatever.

Quote

KELLY: So why would a family with such a painful secret launch a reality TV show and was it hypocritical to preach family values knowing of their own son's repeated sins?

I asked them that and much more in our Duggar family interview right now.

(on camera): Take us back to 2002. How did you first learn that this was a problem with Josh?

JIM BOB DUGGAR, "19 KIDS AND COUNTING": Well, 12 years ago, we went through one of the most darkest times that our family have ever gone through, and our son Josh came to us on his own, and he was crying. And he had just turned 14, and he said that he had actually improperly touched some of our daughters. And it was --

MICHELLE DUGGAR, "19 KIDS AND COUNTING": We were shocked. I mean, we were just devastated. I don't think any parent is prepared for a trauma like that. And I think we had one way of hope and that Josh had a tender conscience, and he was the one that came and shared on his own even though the others really didn't know anything of his wrongdoing.

KELLY: This is a young boy who has come to you with shocking information. What did he say? I mean, how did you respond to him? What was that like, that exchange?

M. DUGGAR: There was so much grief in our hearts. I think as parents we felt, we're failures. You know, here we tried to raise our kids to do what's right, to know what's right. And yet one of our children made some really bad choices, and I think as a parent, we were just -- we were devastated.

KELLY: Did he explain why? I mean, was that a question that you asked?

J. B. DUGGAR: He said he was just curious about girls, and he had gone in and just basically touched them over their clothes while they were sleeping. They didn't even know he had done it. And so we went, and the first thing was to protect the girls. And so we went in --

KELLY: The girls all slept together?

M. DUGGAR: Hm-mm.

J. B. DUGGAR: Yes. The girls had two bedrooms at the time.

KELLY: How many girls are we talking about?

J. B. DUGGAR: We had five girls at the time.

KELLY: OK.

J. B. DUGGAR: So, anyway, he went in and said he had done this, and so we, first off, of course, really talked to him and then we went and talked to all the girls, the children.

M. DUGGAR: It was so important for us as parents to talk to our girls and make sure that nothing else had happened.

KELLY: So, what did they say?

M. DUGGAR: One by one, as we talked with them, none of them were aware of Josh's wrongdoings.

KELLY: So they learned about it from you.

M. DUGGAR: Yes.

J. B. DUGGAR: Yes. Yes.

KELLY: At that point, he had said that he had done this to how many of the girls?

J. B. DUGGAR: That was to two.

KELLY: OK. But neither one had any recollection of it.

J. B. DUGGAR: They did not know.

KELLY: And what was their reaction when they learned it from you?

J. B. DUGGAR: They didn't -- they really didn't know. Actually, what happened was we asked them at first if anything happened. And then it was after some other things happened that we actually shared with them, and we actually -- but we took a lot of steps. And first we tried to deal with this in-house as parents. We were in shock and we were trying to figure out what was the next step. But really, looking back, we did the best we could under the circumstances.

KELLY: You're saying, what am I going to do? You're saying, he says he's touched two of the daughters, and you don't know what to do, right?

J. B. DUGGAR: Didn't know. Because at that point now nobody knew about it besides Michelle and I and Josh. And so we thought, what do we do with this information? And the girls, we talked to them, and they didn't know that anything had happened because they were asleep. And so we talked to him, we put all kinds of punishments on him, we watched him, like, all the time. I took him to work with me, and he just -- I mean, we just poured our life into it.

KELLY: Like when you went to bed at night during that time frame, were you scared? Were you worried? You know, he's 14, he's having this problem. What's going to happen when we go to sleep?

J. B. DUGGAR: Right. Nothing ever happened like that again in the girls' bedrooms after that.

KELLY: OK.

J. B. DUGGAR: OK. So, we had safeguards that protected them from that. But there was another incident where -- two different incidents where the girls were, like, laying on the couch, and it was -- he had touched, like, over the couch and actually touched their breast while they were asleep. And so

M. DUGGAR: Over their clothes.

J. B. DUGGAR: -- over their clothes. And so it was a very difficult situation. But as we talked to other parents and different ones since then, a lot of families have said that they've had similar things happen in their families. And so -- I mean, this is, for us, of course, this is public shame that our son did this back 12, 13 years ago.

KELLY: When you heard that the behavior had resumed, describe what that was like for you.

J. B. DUGGAR: We thought, you know, at first that Josh, you know, was on the road to mend at first, but he was still a kid, you know, and he was still a juvenile. He wasn't an adult. And so there was a couple more times that he came and told us what he had done, and we were just devastated.

All of these -- again, this was not rape or anything like that, this was like touching somebody over their clothes. There were a couple incidents where he touched them under their clothes, but it was like a few seconds and then he came to us and was crying and told us what happened, and it was after that third time he came to us is where we really felt like, you know what? We have done everything we can as parents to handle this in-house. We need to get help.

And that's actually when we went to outside folks and we asked some very close friends if they could come over, and some of my best friends came over. We talked about it, and so at that point we pulled Josh out of the home, and we knew of a man who mentors young men, and he really helped young men who had made unwise choices in their lives to get straightened out, and he was running a little training center in Little Rock, Arkansas.  And under the roof of that training center, he had Little Rock Police Department on one side, then you had a prison minister on the other. And he said Josh could come down there and actually do some construction work with him and he would counsel him and work with him and hopefully get him straightened out.

KELLY: Some people have said, why did they wait? Why didn't they go to the authorities or go for the counseling at the very first time he came to you?

J. B. DUGGAR: You know, I talked to somebody that worked at one of those juvenile youth sex offender facilities, and he described how they actually take care of these situations down there, and the success rate is not very good.  And so we felt like that going from a perspective of really reaching his heart first would be important, and so that's the reason we sent him down to Little Rock to work with this man.

KELLY: Did legal ever pop into your mind? Like we may have legal obligations?

J. B. DUGGAR: You know, what? As parents you're not mandatory reporters. The law allows for parents to do what they think is best for their child. And so we got him out of the home, and we sent him down to this place, and that was really probably the best decision we made through this whole process, because it was at that place -- this was the first time Josh has been out of the home.

KELLY: He was 15 at this point.

J. B. DUGGAR: He had just turned 15. And it was that the point that he came into himself, and God really worked in his life. As a matter of fact, he broke. And he went and asked God to forgive him. He went back and asked those who he had offended to forgive him. But we felt like the last jurisdiction of who to  make things right with was the law.

KELLY: And we'll going to get to that in one second. The subsequent incidents after the first one involved daughters who were awake, at least a couple of them?

J. B. DUGGAR: There was a couple, yes. And they didn't really understand, though, what happened.

KELLY: Yes. What --

M. DUGGAR: It was more his heart, his intent. He knew that it was wrong. But in theirs they weren't even aware. They were like, you know, it wasn't -- to them they didn't probably even understand that it was an improper touch.

KELLY: I know that the ultimate one before you really got help involved a very young daughter, and I'll avoid the age because I don't want to identify anyone specifically, but a single digit. I mean, what was that like for you to hear? You know, one, you must have thought for some time this is a pubescent boy, I don't know what he's going through, but he's testing. But when it moves to a young daughter --

J. B. DUGGAR: Right. At that point, that's when we pulled him out of the house and we said, he can't be here. And so, we pulled him out and then, he went through working with that man --

KELLY: Yes. He goes through counseling.

J. B. DUGGAR: Yes.

KELLY: And then when he was done with the counseling, this is not like a licensed therapist, it's somebody, a Christian-based --  

J. B. DUGGAR: Christian based. But I'll tell you why.

KELLY: Treatment facility.

J. B. DUGGAR: It really had a huge impact on his life. And it really, that was the turning point in his life. And this man really reached his heart.

KELLY: And before Josh went away, you know, in the period where the girls knew, and he knew and you knew when you're living in the house together, what was that like? I mean, what was the dinner table like?

J. B. DUGGAR: Well, we tried to make things as normal as we can, but also, you know, Michelle and I both were keeping an eye on Josh, you know, all the time and watching his behaviors, watching his attitudes.

KELLY: And prior to him leaving, were you concerned for the safety of your daughters?

M. DUGGAR: Well, we definitely put safeguards in our home.

J. B. DUGGAR: Yes, and we also talked to our daughters and reminded them about wrong and right touch and about if anybody ever touched you in a wrong way for you to come and tell your mom immediately.

M. DUGGAR: Immediately. And we tell them that you have a safe place to share your heart. And so we were trying to protect and watch and make sure that their hearts were safe, they had a safe place to talk, and at the same time putting boundaries and safeguards up in our home.

J. B. DUGGAR: Yes. We weren't going to give up on Josh.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KELLY: Up next, the terrible choice these parents faced. How to protect their daughters without ruining their son.

Plus, what happened when Josh came home from his treatment. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

M. DUGGAR: As we're all leaving the next day, and for days and days I was saying, you know, Josh has done some very bad things, and he's -- he's very sorry.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KELLY: When the Duggars discovered what their teenage son had done in the family home, they were faced with several questions including what they should tell police and how to protect their children. And that's where our story picks up.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KELLY: Did it feel at all like a "Sophie's Choice," you know, I have to protect my daughters at the expense of my son or vice versa?

J. B. DUGGAR: You know, I think it was a situation where we felt like our son's heart had gone astray. I think Jesus shared a story about he had a hundred sheep and one went astray, and there he was. He took care of the 99 but he also went after the one that went astray. And so, as parents we still loved Josh and we love our other ones, but we're going to protect those that are in our hands, but also we're going to make sure Josh doesn't make any wrong choices.

M. DUGGAR: It doesn't mean that you're not a good shepherd. Jesus is a good shepherd but he went after that one that went astray. And so I think as parents we were trying to do the best that we knew how to help this one and protect these. And I feel like through that, as we came to that point where, you know, Josh shared, you know, improperly touching a young one, we were devastated and we said, we've got to send him out of the home. He has got to go and seek counsel and get help.

KELLY: Did you feel --

M. DUGGAR: And I mean, it was like that evening when they left and took him that same day, he just was weeping and shared immediately what he had done. And so, we were weeping and the little one was like, what's wrong? Why are daddy and Josh leaving? And as we're all weeping, the next day and for days and days I was saying, you know, Josh has done some very bad things, and he's very sorry.

J. B. DUGGAR: Yes. But I was thankful. The ray of hope was that Josh had come and told us and his heart was still soft. Because we wouldn't have known about any of these things if he hadn't come and told us.

KELLY: All this you learned from Josh.

J. B. DUGGAR: And actually none of the victims really knew about this or understood what he had done until we told them.

KELLY: What about that Jim Bob, as a parent, did you feel guilty when you learned that his behavior had continued and other girls in the house had become victims?

J. B. DUGGAR: Yes. I think as parents, you feel like a failure when one of your kids does something wrong. You feel like if I had done more training or maybe something else that this wouldn't have happened. But the truth is that kids will make their own choices. And they will make their own decisions even though you've taught them what's right and wrong.

KELLY: I'm asking you more as the father of your girls than as the father of Josh. You know, it must have been very hard to look at your little one and know the behavior had been ongoing, as difficult as your position was.

J. B. DUGGAR: Right. I was so thankful, though, that Josh came and told us. And our girls, even though this was a very bad situation, as we've talked to other families who have had, you know, other things happen, a lot of their stories were even worse.

KELLY: And just to clarify, it was four daughters and there was a babysitter outside the family.

J. B. DUGGAR: Yes.

KELLY: Okay. And you notified her about the incident.

J. B. DUGGAR: Yes. He called her up and asked her forgiveness, and she didn't know that he had done anything, either. So, it was more just like a --

KELLY: A fondling.

J. B. DUGGAR: -- a touch while they were asleep for most of them.  Then there was two other incidents that when they were awake, and it was just a bad thing. It was something we would like to forget.

[jcbrown]

2 hours ago, JoanArc said:

I feel like this should be mandatory reading at this point to try to keep all he lies straight. I'm sure the deposition team is pouring through it.

Over the clohes, or whatever.

Is there anything to say to this other than, "fucking assholes!!! You had ONE job and that was to protect your children and you are miserable failures at that and as human beings."

ETA the Duggars literally had one job, since they eschew working like the rest of us.

Edited May 29, 2017 by jcbrown

[JoanArc]

Quote

fucking assholes!!! You had ONE job and that was to protect your children and you are miserable failures at that and as human beings."

Quote

It was something we would like to forget.

Note Josh called up victim 5. Not even a face to face. I'm pretty sure my foot would've come out the receiver and kicked him in the balls, followed by my hands around his neck. How's that even go?

Hi Susie!

Hi  Josh, how are you! What's up?

Oh, just loving the lord, studying my bible in homeschool. Dad's just signed the papers for us to be on tv. He says I'll get to narrate our television ministry. Oh and my sisters just got these hot new red dresses. Jana got the pattern form handmaids are us. She's been up all night sewing them.

Oh that's great! What a blessing, I hope your godly family inspires millions of people to give you money! You might even land a cushy job you're in no way qualified for out of this!

Yeah it's great! *clears throat* oh and speaking of my sisters, I've been sneaking into their rooms at night and grabbing their breasts and pussies, but only for two seconds, remember the two second rule. And It was over the clothes. But dont worry they didn't know. Oh and I have my eye on my 5 year old sister, but I waiting until she's most vulnerable to pounce. And...uh I fondled you when you were asleep on the couch...but 2 second rule. I'm uh, really sorry please forgive me, it won't happen again. If this ever comes out say nothing to the media. *dailtone*.

Edited May 29, 2017 by JoanArc

[Oldernowiser]

Wow, you can actually hear the whistling noise as the "Sophie's Choice" reference goes flying three feet over their heads.

Duggars. Read a book. You might learn big words like "integrity," "hypocrisy," and maybe even "hubris."

[Annb67]

It's some thing WE would like to forget???!!!! What the ever loving hell??? Yeah, so would his victim you shits! So Jill is crying on TV and forgiving over something she didn't know had happened? What the hell? Oh and parents of the year.....just because it was over the clothes doesn't mean it isn't molestation you fucking idiots!!!

[Churchhoney]

"J. B. DUGGAR: Right. I was so thankful, though, that Josh came and told us. And our girls, even though this was a very bad situation, as we've talked to other families who have had, you know, other things happen, a lot of their stories were even worse."

And the evil King Jim Boob, Monarch of Deflection, manages, as usual, to point out that everybody else does way way worse than he and Meeechelle do. Not just, "But everybody does it!" but "And they're all just terrible, compared to me!" 

That should have sent a team of FBI agents and half the American Psychological Association running to Northwest Arkansas, or Gothardland, or whatever benighted region Jizm Bob was in when he found this giant (fictional) nest of way-worse-than-his intra-family child molestation.