Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[RazzleberryPie]

Law & Order Duggar episode promo is out:

The wife isn't wide eyed and simpering nearly enough.

[Defrauder]

Josh was actually trained (they love that word when describing raising children which is sick) to be the biggest hypocrite ever and that's what he turned out to be. While Michelle and JB look with innocent, blank stares and wonder how that could have possibly happened,

[SomePity1066]

Amen to that, Defrauder. While Ma and Pa Duggar may be absolutely confounded by their eldest's behavioral and ethical issues, few of the rest of us are even mildly surprised.

And Amen to that, Mrs. Kisses !  For a couple who pride themselves (And inordinately so. Loudly and often. Insufferably so.) on being able to spot a sinner at twenty paces, JB and Mechelle surely dropped the ball on finding the reason behind the sin in their own camp. 

 

They cannot, unbelievably, connect the dots from Josh living in an environment of hyper-sexuality to normal adolescent feelings to maddeningly suppressive "training" to decidedly inappropriate acting out to punishment and "treatment" that was laughable at best and life-changingly harmful at worst. 

 

HOW DO THEY NOT SEE THIS ??? 

 

Because they are simply incapable of seeing their own behavior as anything other than Godly and beyond reproach. They are PERFECT in their own eyes, and nothing they did as parents had anything to do with the train wreck that is Josh. He must have had the "Super Devil"***  on his trail !!!

 

Funny, but it just occurred to me - in the eleventy bazillion times they've told the "birth control caused a miscarriage that led us to the Lord..." speech, they have never ONCE, not EVER, come out and said that they just wanted to be able to have sex like normal people without having a baby every year. They blame the doctors, they blame science, they blame birth control, they bring out the come-to-Jesus moment over and over, but never come out and say why they were using BC in the first place. Interesting way to twist their very own experiences into not only a seriously flawed cautionary tale but also a white-washing of their own pasts leaving them with an accountability factor of ZERO. 

 

And they wonder why Josh is... Josh ?

 

***As seen on Family Guy, you dont need to worry about the devil anymore, its the Super Devil you must worry about today. He posseses longer horns and rides a motercycle and can fly. He is atleast 6inch taller then the regular devil, and he carries a jug of marmalaid that forces you to commit adultry.

[JoanArc]

 

hey blame the doctors, they blame science, they blame birth control, they bring out the come-to-Jesus moment over and over, but never come out and say why they were using BC in the first place.

They also post, on tv and the internet, pictures of themselves as unmarried teenagers touching and KISSING. Which are somehow wrong and ruin a marriage. Except their marriage is super, super strong you guys. They even speak at retreats! Their whole worldview is one of suppressing all introspection and following the great leader's script. It's why Anna will have to smile blankly at reformed Josh, and not worry if he's smiling back at her, or the memory of some hooker poon her got years ago.

[kellylovessnark]

Does anybody have a link to that episode? All I can find are clips and interviews. I had stopped watching the show by then so I've never seen the last one.

Thanks.

Here's one I found on YouTube. Chances are you can find better, but it was one of the first choices given.

http://youtu.be/QGz62DFBsF0

[Quilt Fairy]

I'm bringing this over from the media thread. Josh's AM profile pictures:

http://gawker.com/here-are-the-photos-josh-duggar-used-for-his-ashley-mad-1738733009

[whydoiwatch]

Pictures really are worth a thousand words. Those AM profile pictures are disgusting and I bet Josh thought they were sexy. YUK. 

The picture from the Hollywood Gossip article showing the Smuggars laughing is just sickening to me. That picture reminds me of why I can't stand this couple. Anna's stupid "worship gaze" at Josh and their utter arrogance- ugh. I have very little (maybe zero) sympathy for Anna. Yes, she played by the rules, etc and got a bad deal with her cheating spouse, but her attitude of entitlement and superiority negates any compassion I might otherwise have for her. The M kids are the innocent ones and I do feel for the situation they are forced to grow up in.

[barbedwire]

"Worship gaze" - LOL!  That describes it perfectly.

[Mollie]

Did you know that Michelle and Jim Bob are planning to build an anti-birth control and abortion museum in Washington D.C.?  I'll bet they intended for Josh to run the thing before he got booted out of DC.  They've got a website set up for it!

http://www.inquisitr.com/2524627/duggar-family-friend-under-fbi-investigation-in-new-scandal

[Tabbygirl521]

Abortion and contraception MUSEUM?? How demented would the exhibits be? These loons are fixated on sex and its by-products.

[Mollie]

Abortion and contraception MUSEUM?? How demented would the exhibits be? These loons are fixated on sex and its by-products.

 

The website for their museum says the goal is to ban abortions in America.  This family is so into policing what everyone else is doing instead of dealing with what the Duggars are doing!  And, yes, their whole focus is having babies, no birth control and no kissing or dating before marriage.  So, they have 19 kids they can't parent, have incestual molestations in their house and have raised an adulterer who is addicted to porn.  I say we should build a museum documenting the Duggars!

[JoanArc]

Abortion and contraception MUSEUM?? How demented would the exhibits be? These loons are fixated on sex and its by-products.

Josh can still run the Hall of Sexual Obligation.

[Almost 3000]

The website for their museum says the goal is to ban abortions in America.  This family is so into policing what everyone else is doing instead of dealing with what the Duggars are doing!  And, yes, their whole focus is having babies, no birth control and no kissing or dating before marriage.  So, they have 19 kids they can't parent, have incestual molestations in their house and have raised an adulterer who is addicted to porn.  I say we should build a museum documenting the Duggars!

There is a museum documenting the Duggars. Its called TLC.

[Sew Sumi]

I know their model is the Creation Museum, but don't they know that a real museum has REAL exhibits? Duggar money can't finance this, thank goodness. But even if it could, they'd be laughed out of DC in a hot minute. This is a project better suited to some backwater town in the Deep South (much like the Creation Museum itself).

, 

But yeah, what do they offer other than faked pictures of "aborted" babiezzzz? As much as it would be nice to watch them sink their money into this and watch it fail, I hope this article is another Inquisitir  click bait red herring (they're wrong far more often than right) and that there is really no such "museum" in the works. 

Edited October 28, 2015 by Sew Sumi

[GeeGolly]

That is effed up. An abortion museum?  Is that the Duggar version of Scared Straight? Will they then petition politicians to try and make that a pre-requirement before having the procedure?

 

Next door someone will need to build a museum showing the evolution of women's rights.

[CofCinci]

Every time I miscarriaged the diagnosis/billing code used was "spontaneous abortion." Are they counting those into their figure?

[frenchtoast]

*Shakes head* *Looks at the little birdies* *Furrows brow* I thought this was the Josh and Anna topic. I'm all confused about how the conversation is not about Josh, Anna, and the Ms. Can we please move back to Josh and Anna? Thanks!

[flyingdi]

You know what I've been thinking lately? In the first specials like the house building one with Josh narrating, i quite liked him. Yes he was smug but he had a dry sarcastic edge to him the other children seem to be missing with the possible exceptions of Jinger and JoyAnna. He also seemed smart especially compared to his siblings. I guess what I'm saying is he seemed to have such potential. It's kind of really sad. It seems like what he did set his parents on a path to make sure they killed any potential their other kids had.

Edited October 28, 2015 by flyingdi

[Darknight]

Did you know that Michelle and Jim Bob are planning to build an anti-birth control and abortion museum in Washington D.C.? I'll bet they intended for Josh to run the thing before he got booted out of DC. They've got a website set up for it!

http://www.inquisitr.com/2524627/duggar-family-friend-under-fbi-investigation-in-new-scandal

Wtf?? Why are these fools so delusional

[duggarshow]

Wtf?? Why are these fools so delusional

Edited October 28, 2015 by duggarfan

[PityFree]

Wow I never saw that before.  Totally real?

No. It is a plastic model.

[bigskygirl]

Hmmm... We seem to be heading for a possible abortion debate. The anti-abortion and birth control museum talk as it is related to Josh and Anna is acceptable, but lets derail the abortion discussion. The discussion train wants to stay on track and not end up in the ditch because a political off topic has taken over the running of the train. Any abortion discussion will be ask to leave the train aka deleted or hidden by the train conductor mods. I am sure there are other forum railroad stations to go to embark on the abortion discussion. Thank you.

[Bella]

This is the Josh and Anna thread.

[CofCinci]

I wonder what Josh will think of Anna's weight loss.

[kokapetl]

Vintage Josh and Jothers on percussion (via Pickles and Hairspray)

[barbedwire]

The frumpers!

[kokapetl]

I wonder what Josh will think of Anna's weight loss.

He won't notice.

[yogi2014L]

You know what I've been thinking lately? In the first specials like the house building one with Josh narrating, i quite liked him. Yes he was smug but he had a dry sarcastic edge to him the other children seem to be missing with the possible exceptions of Jinger and JoyAnna. He also seemed smart especially compared to his siblings. I guess what I'm saying is he seemed to have such potential. It's kind of really sad. It seems like what he did set his parents on a path to make sure they killed any potential their other kids had.

he was able to sneak around for YEARS even while in the public eye, I feel like had TLC never gotten involved he would have had the motivation/brains to flee the cult. The other kids seem brain dead to me. Like does Jana know she can legally walk out the door and leave?

 

IDK , it had to take some serious coniving to pull off what Josh did for so long. I also think that the are only TWO reasons he is allowing himself to be put in "rehab" :::

1. MONEY

2. He is afraid to be out in public/ dealing with real life and the publicity after the scandal

[Mollie]

I wonder what Josh will think of Anna's weight loss.

She just lost her baby-gain weight.  The only difference this time is that she will not/did not get pregnant right away.  The last baby was born July 16 and Joshy was kicked out on August 24.  Unless she went to visit Josh for the allowed conjugal visit, she's not getting pregnant again any time soon.  It doesn't look like any family member went to visit Josh.  Either they didn't want to, or he broke the rules and wasn't allowed the visit.  I feel sorry for his kids because they can't even talk to him on the phone.

[Vaysh]

Drums! The horror! I thought music with a beat was of the Devil in Duggarland. Or is it just when other people do it?

[SomePity1066]

The other kids seem brain dead to me. Like does Jana know she can legally walk out the door and leave?

Yogi2014L - This is the question that's been bugging me for ages ! On one hand I think "Oh, C'MON ! Of course she knows she can leave !" but then I play Devil's Advocate and think that maybe she has, despite the world travel and money, been so brainwashed that she can't even consider stepping out the door.  

 

Seems like Josh managed to avoid all of that, and only succeeded in perfecting the veneer of Gothard acceptability in order to get out of the house and move on to an accountability partner that he could easily duck and fool at every turn. Crafty, that one is.

Edited October 28, 2015 by SomePity1066

[Vaysh]

Crafty, that one is.

 

One might even say sly.

[Darknight]

She just lost her baby-gain weight. The only difference this time is that she will not/did not get pregnant right away. The last baby was born July 16 and Joshy was kicked out on August 24. Unless she went to visit Josh for the allowed conjugal visit, she's not getting pregnant again any time soon. It doesn't look like any family member went to visit Josh. Either they didn't want to, or he broke the rules and wasn't allowed the visit. I feel sorry for his kids because they can't even talk to him on the phone.

Wow That's Too Long Without sex. And too long not to get pregnant again. Anna can have a virgin birth if she prays for it.

[Churchhoney]

Yogi2014L - This is the question that's been bugging me for ages ! On one hand I think "Oh, C'MON ! Of course she knows she can leave !" but then I play Devil's Advocate and think that maybe she has, despite the world travel and money, been so brainwashed that she can't even consider stepping out the door.  

 

 

But where would she go and what would she do? I doubt she knows anyone besides Michelle's family members who would shelter her from the Duggars, and maybe even they wouldn't? And if she left, she'd then have to confront the very big question of how she would live and support herself in the world as she believes it is.

 

To me, maybe the biggest thing that's been robbed from the Duggar kids, especially the girls, is any confidence that they could function in the world outside the compound walls. They've deliberately been deprived of all knowledge, education, training and experience that would suggest to them that they could work for a living for non-Duggar people, and they've been constantly told that the outside world is utterly evil and lying in wait to destroy them, for this world and eternity.

 

To leave literally everything and everyone you've known, the essential ingredient is some confidence that the completely new world you're entering won't snuff you out instantly. When I left my confines, I had that because I'd been to school and had some jobs. But I don't see any place at all in which a Duggar girl would get even a smidgen of such confidence. JB and M have bent all their efforts to making sure the girls don't gain any such confidence anywhere, and they've succeeded. The only place they feel safe to go is to other Gothardite types, even when married -- see Dillards' new "profession" -- and that's not leaving. And it took Derick even to get one of the girls that far. I highly doubt that a Duggar girl alone would even have the confidence to do something like that -- beyond short trips to JB-and-M-sanctioned prison camps like Journey to the Heart -- let alone to leave Duggardom altogether. I'm sure that they can't even imagine a non-JB-and-M world in which they could safely and successfully function for a week, let alone for the rest of their lives.

 

To me, the only hope is that JB and M have been too distracted and smug to brainwash the younger kids quite as much, and that some actual knowledge of the outside world has sneaked into some of their brains while their horrible parents were busy being tv stars.

Edited October 29, 2015 by Churchhoney

[lookeyloo]

But where would she go and what would she do? I doubt she knows anyone besides Michelle's family members who would shelter her from the Duggars, and maybe even they wouldn't? And if she left, she'd then have to confront the very big question of how she would live and support herself in the world as she believes it is.

 

To me, maybe the biggest thing that's been robbed from the Duggar kids, especially the girls, is any confidence that they could function in the world outside the compound walls. They've deliberately been deprived of all knowledge, education, training and experience that would suggest to them that they could work for a living for non-Duggar people, and they've been constantly told that the outside world is utterly evil and lying in wait to destroy them, for this world and eternity.

 

To leave literally everything and everyone you've known, the essential ingredient is some confidence that the completely new world you're entering won't snuff you out instantly. When I left my confines, I had that because I'd been to school and had some jobs. But I don't see any place at all in which a Duggar girl would get even a smidgen of such confidence. JB and M have bent all their efforts to making sure the girls don't gain any such confidence anywhere, and they've succeeded. The only place they feel safe to go is to other Gothardite types, even when married -- see Dillards' new "profession" -- and that's not leaving. And it took Derick even to get one of the girls that far. I highly doubt that a Duggar girl alone would even have the confidence to do something like that -- beyond short trips to JB-and-M-sanctioned prison camps like Journey to the Heart -- let alone to leave Duggardom altogether. I'm sure that they can't even imagine a non-JB-and-M world in which they could safely and successfully function for a week, let alone for the rest of their lives.

 

To me, the only hope is that JB and M have been too distracted and smug to brainwash the younger kids quite as much, and that some actual knowledge of the outside world has sneaked into some of their brains while their horrible parents were busy being tv stars.

I totally agree with this.  I've said it once or twice.  Easy for us to say, just leave, but, she is fearful and lives in a protective bubble with no knowledge of how to navigate the big bad world without a posse to protect her from whatever she perceives is out there to get her.  No confidence in her own abilities, it seems by watching her.  Don't know of course, what's inside her head.  Maybe like the elephant with the chain?

[Tabbygirl521]

They've been told that the evil world is just waiting to destroy them, and sure enough, look how Satan got his hooks into Josh, right? I would bet a lot that this is the conclusion they've all come to. Personal responsibility? Nonsense! Huddle together and keep praying!

[yogi2014L]

But where would she go and what would she do? I doubt she knows anyone besides Michelle's family members who would shelter her from the Duggars, and maybe even they wouldn't? And if she left, she'd then have to confront the very big question of how she would live and support herself in the world as she believes it is.

 

To me, maybe the biggest thing that's been robbed from the Duggar kids, especially the girls, is any confidence that they could function in the world outside the compound walls. They've deliberately been deprived of all knowledge, education, training and experience that would suggest to them that they could work for a living for non-Duggar people, and they've been constantly told that the outside world is utterly evil and lying in wait to destroy them, for this world and eternity.

 

To leave literally everything and everyone you've known, the essential ingredient is some confidence that the completely new world you're entering won't snuff you out instantly. When I left my confines, I had that because I'd been to school and had some jobs. But I don't see any place at all in which a Duggar girl would get even a smidgen of such confidence. JB and M have bent all their efforts to making sure the girls don't gain any such confidence anywhere, and they've succeeded. The only place they feel safe to go is to other Gothardite types, even when married -- see Dillards' new "profession" -- and that's not leaving. And it took Derick even to get one of the girls that far. I highly doubt that a Duggar girl alone would even have the confidence to do something like that -- beyond short trips to JB-and-M-sanctioned prison camps like Journey to the Heart -- let alone to leave Duggardom altogether. I'm sure that they can't even imagine a non-JB-and-M world in which they could safely and successfully function for a week, let alone for the rest of their lives.

 

To me, the only hope is that JB and M have been too distracted and smug to brainwash the younger kids quite as much, and that some actual knowledge of the outside world has sneaked into some of their brains while their horrible parents were busy being tv stars.

Oh yeah, I know they won't, that goes with the brain dead comment. Like Josh is the only one who seemed to have any gumption to do his own thing. 

the damage jbob and mechelle have done to their daughters is abhorrent.

[Anne Elk]

They've been told that the evil world is just waiting to destroy them, and sure enough, look how Satan got his hooks into Josh, right? I would bet a lot that this is the conclusion they've all come to. Personal responsibility? Nonsense! Huddle together and keep praying!

Absolutely. Even Josh and Anna seem to believe this. 

 

I keep thinking somewhere in that family there's got to be someone who is capable of putting two and two together and thinking, "Wait a minute, didn't we go through this with Josh once before, back when he was still living at home and presumably sheltered from the evil outside world?" But then, they've no doubt already rationalized that too. Josh is the oldest and probably always had a little more freedom than the other kids, so it would be easy for them to assume that having any freedom is the problem. Or maybe they've all just decided that Josh is a rotten apple, period.

 

It's a completely closed circle. Jesus has already given them all the answers, so when something goes wrong it just proves that they were actually right all along. Just like with the Gothard pamphlets addressing the victims of sexual abuse -- since they know that their assumptions about the world cannot possibly be wrong, then it must be the victim's fault in some way. And since the rules are so impossible and all-pervasive, they can always find something that the victim did wrong that "caused" them to suffer the abuse. 

Edited October 29, 2015 by Anne Elk

[mbutterfly]

Hmmm... We seem to be heading for a possible abortion debate. The anti-abortion and birth control museum talk as it is related to Josh and Anna is acceptable, but lets derail the abortion discussion. The discussion train wants to stay on track and not end up in the ditch because a political off topic has taken over the running of the train. Any abortion discussion will be ask to leave the train aka deleted or hidden by the train conductor mods. I am sure there are other forum railroad stations to go to embark on the abortion discussion. Thank you.

I'm quoting because I love this phrase. I shall sprinkle it generously in personal conversations from this day forward. 

[amitville]

I'm quoting because I love this phrase. I shall sprinkle it generously in personal conversations from this day forward. 

I copied it down to use at a future date.  

[Sew Sumi]

I totally agree with this. I've said it once or twice. Easy for us to say, just leave, but, she is fearful and lives in a protective bubble with no knowledge of how to navigate the big bad world without a posse to protect her from whatever she perceives is out there to get her. No confidence in her own abilities, it seems by watching her. Don't know of course, what's inside her head. Maybe like the elephant with the chain?

The Allegory of the Cave immediately comes to mind.

[Purpose to defraud]

I copied it down to use at a future date.  

 

I'm quoting because I love this phrase. I shall sprinkle it generously in personal conversations from this day forward. 

It is a great relief from the over beaten dead horse beating allegory!

[What In The]

Even if Anna does forgive she won't forget. Every day she will probably look at him and wonder where he's been, is he cheating, where was her last night, did he ever really love me, do i really love him, and a whole load of other things. And every day no amount of apologiies will rease her memories which sucks.

[questionfear]

The Allegory of the Cave immediately comes to mind.

Good point!

 

Maybe that's why they can't be educated...they might put all the pieces together as soon as they read Plato.

[bigskygirl]

It is a great relief from the over beaten dead horse beating allegory!

The mods thank you. And yes, I am going off topic a little here. Please forgive me.

[JoanArc]

 

Yep, her own personal hell, and for a crime she did not commit.

She was quick to announce she knowingly married a molester. We have to take that as true. She had kids with him, made money, and stuck by him. World's smallest violin time.

[Marigold]

I'm back and forth on this board whenever I can spare some time. My secret pleasure! I fell a little behind.

Anyway, so is it confirmed Joshie is in RU? Has anyone seen him? How have they kept this so quiet?

Anna actually looks good in that picture of Anna and the girls. She lost baby weight and seems to have lost a little more. Guess we know who was bringing in the munchies and ice cream at night.

[skatelady]

Stumbled across this article yesterday. Goes a long way toward explaining why Josh turned out the way he did.

 

http://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/what-happens-men-who-stay-abstinent-until-marriage

[Chicklet]

Who woulda thunk it? A broken group of people insist on allowing a creepy yet celibate old man to set acceptable societal "rules". What could go wrong?

Edited October 30, 2015 by Chicklet

[Guest]

I know this may be an unpopular opinion, but I'm quickly coming to the conclusion that the Ashley Madison scandal was the best thing that could've happened to Josh Duggar and the Duggar family in terms of helping them get back on television.

 

In this day and age, people have developed a short memory for scandal. The Ashley Madison hack was successful in that it shifted attention away from the molestation scandal and prevented it from lingering in the public consciousness for too long. It changed the conversation from an unforgivable crime like child molestation to something forgivable, relatable, and generates a good deal of sympathy for Anna and the children, and the poor parents whose bad seed son is tearing their wholesome family apart with his dalliances. 

 

Those who do not follow the Duggars as closely as us, which is most people, will say, "Wait. What did Josh Duggar do again?," to which someone will reply, "Uh, didn't he get caught up in that Ashley Madison hack?," because it is the most recent thing that will come to mind.

 

Why do I think this? Because I literally overhead that exact conversation on a bus yesterday. People who aren't paying close attention have already had their memories overwritten by the latest scandal and they've already forgotten the original crime here...