Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[CherryAmes]

On another site I visit where this is being discussed someone is insisting there was no cover up and no hypocricy because this happened in 2003 and the Duggars didn't go on TV until 2005.  I wasn't watching the show back then but I'm pretty sure they always portrayed themselves as pure as the driven snow with Josh being the jewel in their crown.  I have no idea why this person thinks it shouldn't matter since the molesting didn't happen when the show was actually being aired.

[Jellybeans]

All snark aside, I hope Anna and her children are alright. I am thinking of them.

[Missy Vixen]

It's been interesting to see what's happened to other "shamed" evangelicals, from Ted Haggard to Tammy Faye Baker. 

Tammy Faye Bakker spent the rest of her life apologizing (and atoning for) her behavior. IMHO of course, but I don't put her in the same category as guys like Ted Haggard and Jimmy Swaggart. Her repentance (and her realization that she was wrong) was genuine. If you haven't seen The Eyes of Tammy Faye Bakker, I recommend it.

 

Edited because it's good to write something even somewhat understandable...

Edited May 29, 2015 by Missy Vixen

[NEGirl]

JellyBeans - I have too. I can only imagine how confusing this must be for the poor kids and how stressful this is for poor Anna. I truely believe she did not know the whole story regarding Josh and him molesting the girls. Anna can be annoying, but she has shown herself to be a good mother who loves her children.  She must feel that her whole life is falling apart and she has no control over what is happening.  One has to wonder what her conversations with Josh are like - that's if she is speaking to him at all.

[NikSac]

I find myself amused that TLC  is "acting" like it didn't know.  Oprah Winfrey knows, but TLC doesn't.  Oprah Winfrey cancels the appearance on her show, but TLC doesn't know why.  Please. They're only shocked because everyone knows now.    

 

I bet depending on who you're talking about at TLC, some of them did know. It's hard to just say "TLC knew" in my opinion. I am fairly certain some people at TLC knew, especially the higher-ups. It wouldn't surprise me to find out that the people who were in the house all the time - camera, sound, etc. didn't know, and I can see how those people might be pretty shocked.  Production I could go either way, maybe, maybe not.

 

ETA: after finishing catching up, I don't think they knew because of any affiliation with Oprah at the time. I just feel like whoever told Oprah would probably have told someone at TLC, too. At very least I bet they knew about the rumors.

Edited May 29, 2015 by NikSac

[Julia]

NOT a defense of Boob, but to me the incest statement was specifically referring to intercourse (since it was about abortion) and there has been no indication that Josh did that.

I don't claim to be any kind of expert on what these folks think. As far as I know, though, they consider lust and masturbation to be sins equal in the eyes of the lord to fornication, which makes me doubt that they consider groping genitals to be less serious than intercourse.

[Missy Vixen]

Wow, he really went there.  

My mouth is hanging open.

BOOM.

[xls]

All snark aside, I hope Anna and her children are alright. I am thinking of them.

Me too, I hope they don't suffer any hardship because of this.

[NikSac]

Erin Merryn spoke to Dr. Drew from a remote camera. Erin is an American writer and activist from Schaumburg, Illinois who advocates the prevention of child sexual abuse. Beginning in 2010, she launched a campaign to pass a law that would mandate a sexual abuse prevention curriculum in schools, called Erin's Law, and has since seen it successfully passed in several states. In 2014, she was invited by the Duggar's themselves to come to their home to speak to their children about sexual abuse. The Duggar's were attending a child abuse conference where she was speaking. She said went to the Duggar's home and there were 9 kids home, the little ones. The home was clean, the kids were the most well behaved and respectful kids she ever met. The children were very receptive to what she was saying, they were attentive and asked questions. All the children there happened to be all the younger children, the older girls weren't there, they had been sent away to a camp.

 

Wow. That is all kinds of sick. Send the girls you know were abused away while the younger ones get some kind of help and resources, or at least a talk about it?

[Leigh3]

Wise words Michael Reagan http://www.cagle.com/2015/05/conservative-christians-miscount/

I sums up what I have been thinking/feeling since this hit the fan last week. Highly recommend reading this article

[Jellybeans]

Me too, I hope they don't suffer any hardship because of this.

That's the thing. They will suffer.

[JoanArc]

That's the thing. They will suffer.

The first time they Google their names, and there's nothing anyone can do about that. Very sad.

[xls]

Tammy Faye Bakker spent the rest of her life apologizing (and atoning for) her behavior. IMHO of course, but I don't put her in the same category as guys like Ted Haggard and Jimmy Swaggart. Her repentance (and her realization that she was wrong) was genuine. If you haven't seen The Eyes of Tammy Faye Bakker, I recommend it.

 

Edited because it's good to write something even somewhat understandable...

Going a bit OT. Seeing Tammy Faye on the Surreal Life (if anyone remembers that show) totally changed my mind about her. She was a genuine example of what a Christian should be IMHO, she accepted everyone regardless of their lifestyle, unlike the Duggars

[shipmate]

Has their been any public comment from the regular crew members - like the ones they just featured on an episode (is one Jim the sound guy?)

[NextIteration]

Well, that brings up something interesting, I wonder if any of the girls looked at FreeJinger.  hmmmm 

[Julia]

Going a bit OT. Seeing Tammy Faye on the Surreal Life (if anyone remembers that show) totally changed my mind about her. She was a genuine example of what a Christian should be IMHO, she accepted everyone regardless of their lifestyle, unlike the Duggars

 

I was living in NC, near where their park was, when the Bakker scandal came out. I've never been able to make myself believe that Tammy Faye had any control over what happened. I think she was a fig leaf (although by the time they were busted, I doubt she had as much contact with Jim's genitive area as that might imply).

Edited May 29, 2015 by Julia

[jschoolgirl]

I'm embarrassed of how much I've been thinking about the Duggars.

---------------------

Well, I've thought about them so much that I had a dream the other night that I was reading news accounts of Josh, Jim Bob, and Michelle's death in the wake of the scandal.

[Granny58]

In giving it some thought, I’m not surprised that Josh did what he did.  When you’re a teenage boy with raging hormones, and your parents, instead of explaining the changes you’re going through, talk (on a daily basis) about defrauding, and pound into your head that you’re not supposed to have impure thoughts, while your dad (on a daily basis) gropes your mother, it has to be hard to keep all thoughts of sex off your mind.  Think about it.  JimBob can’t seem to talk about anything else except his daughter’s purity, modesty, sexing up Michelle for another baby (hey, hey, hey), all the sinful things that are going to send you to hell, etc., and if he’s not talking about these things, he’s playing grab ass and sticking his tongue down Michelle’s throat.

 

JimBob and Michelle not only hid their son’s crimes, but they put all the thoughts about sex in his head by talking about how sinful it would be for him, while flaunting their sex lives in front of the kids all fucking day long.

 

If TLC decides (god forbid) to make a new show without Josh, they’d better leave the mother of the year and her disgusting, horny husband out too.  The thought of seeing any of them on my TV ever again makes me want to hurl!

Exactly.  I think Josh was raised in a very bizarre atmosphere.  And after I read somebody's link about the baby training, spanking EVERY day, etc. it makes perfect sense that the girls would not say anything.  The whole thing is messed up.  Boob and Mechelle I think bear the heaviest load in this. 

[rulesoftravel]

 

ETA: after finishing catching up, I don't think they knew because of any affiliation with Oprah at the time. I just feel like whoever told Oprah would probably have told someone at TLC, too. At very least I bet they knew about the rumors.

 Exactly.   It does not matter to me whether Oprah was with Discovery or any other network.  Whoever emailed her show anonymously probably contacted TLC.   I find it disgusting that after all the things that have happened with their little reality shows (Cake Boss rape accusation, Jon and Kate infidelity issues) that they didn't vet this shit for brains family better.   And that's it for me.  Cancel this mess now, TLC.

[SopranoKris]

I'm embarrassed of how much I've been thinking about the Duggars.

---------------------

Well, I've thought about them so much that I had a dream the other night that I was reading news accounts of Josh, Jim Bob, and Michelle's death in the wake of the scandal.

I actually had a nightmare that the TTH turned into a scene from the Jim Jones compound in Guyana.  YIKES!!!  Glad it was just a nightmare, but it does worry me that their world is crumbling.

 

Back to the topic:  considering how much the Duggars shun the media (in terms of watching it, reading it, etc.), I wonder how much Smuggar is aware of the public sentiment about it.  Ignorance may be bliss for him right now.  UGH!  But I can see him & Anna staying cocooned in their little world so none of it bothers them.  They've prayed for "forgiveness" so, in their minds, it's all behind them now.  The nickname "Smuggar" has never been more appropriate than now.

[rulesoftravel]

I don't think the Duggars shun the media.   They are everywhere in the media-they are part of the media.  They use the media to spread their hypocritical messages.  Shunning the media-I think not.   I think it's probably a good idea to discount anything that comes from these lying liars who lie.

 

Josh will probably be on DWtS... (sarcasm).

Edited May 29, 2015 by rulesoftravel

[Satchels of gold]

No way can Josh ever come back from child sexual assault. ( of a five year old no less) No way. Anything else but that. I don't think we will ever see any of them again on main stream TV. I didn't watch the show but as soon as the news broke I hightailed it to this forum because you guys are better then the NSA in digging for info (I know from my housewives forum) . You did not disappoint . it's sweet how the viewers really care about the girls and I was espically touched by the concern shown for Anna. I also think it's wonderful the support that has been given to victims that choose to share their stories here. I hope they can take the collective outrage and apply it to their own situations. Trust that if the right people knew, that outrage would have been for you too. I hope there is some healing in knowing that people from all walks of life, different religions and socio economic status all find it appalling. I hope there is healing for the Duggar girls and all the other victims.

I've been reading here since it happened but didn't want to post because I felt long term viewers really had a sense of ownership with the kids and I didn't want to "crash the forum with my Johnny come lately opinions. But that's my take.

[Gemma Violet]

I just saw a segment on Inside Edition on Josh buying a house close to his parents for $50,000 or $55,000, I forgot which...a fixer-upper, they called it.  It was a small house and the carpets were covered in stains.  The reporter said the family will help Josh fix it up.  

 

eta--I just looked at it again on my DVR.  It was described as less than lavish.  And it was $55,000.  

Edited May 30, 2015 by Gemma Violet

[Sew Sumi]

FakeJoshDuggar has put together quite the retrospective regarding the history of the Mold House. It was purchased from GARRETT RUARK (Michelle's father) more than a year after he'd moved back to Ohio, for almost four times market value.....around the same time Smuggar appealed the findings of the DHS. It's obvious that a)The Duggars wanted Josh out. His courtship with Anna was ramped up, beginning in Jan. '08 (IIRC). and b)JB and Michelle didn't want to be associated with this purchase, lest people connect the dots, so enter GrandmaPaul! Overpaying also buys Ruark's silence. Remember, he was living with the Duggars for a while. He certainly...knew things....

 

Wow, so dysfunctional...

 

https://fakejoshduggar.wordpress.com/2015/05/29/you-be-the-judge/

Edited May 30, 2015 by Sew Sumi

[GeeGolly]

I work with many individuals that have experienced many forms of trauma. We prefer to use the word survivor rather than victim.

[JAYJAY1979]

I do hope that we eventually move beyond outing the survivors. Let them come forward on their own when.and if they are ready to.

Edited May 30, 2015 by JAYJAY1979

[kathe5133]

I just took a look at fakejoshduggar.whatever. Wow. I now dislike this family and I am enjoying hearing others take on the situation, but a shit load of time and effort went into that site. That shows a great deal of focused rage. Who has time for such nonsense? And no, I am not suggesting we track down the site owners. Really who gives a shit who owned what house when? They are proven liars and they will get what is coming to them. Step away from the computer and step out into the sunshine! TLC will cancel the show or we will all stop watching. Period.

We can't save them from themselves and I worry about those whose hatred is so focused and vengeful. I fear it adds fuel to the fire of those who are saying that all this furor is just because of the Duggar's religious beliefs. Sites like that detract from the fact that Josh molestested his sisters. His mother and father covered it up. So they lied about houses and such. Why is that surprising? Anyone who would lie to protect a pedophile is capable of anything.

[CofCinci]

So the moldy house/Michelle's father's house/Josh-now-Jessa's house was purchased for 4 times the value from Michelle's father? JB sure knows how to shuffle that money around, doesn't he.

Grandma Mary is laundering money up in that laundry room hideout.

Edited May 30, 2015 by CofCinci

[Sew Sumi]

The important part of that piece was when and from whom that house was purchased. It was to move Josh out of the situation after the DHS hearing. It also proves that Grandma Mary was complicit in the coverup, so this expands beyond just the nuclear family. I think that's pretty damn important information. Putting the house in Mary's name, rather than JB/Michelle's adds yet another angle to this whole story, which was NOT over in 2003, despite what the leghumpers say.  Yes, I admit that I despise these people, but now more because they're proven to be hypocrites, liars, and sleazeballs, rather than just due to their restricting their children's lives because of their cult involvement.

 

Yes, this Sira person went down a rabbit hole of documents and fed them to FJD, but to be honest, those deeds aren't that hard to access. 

Edited May 30, 2015 by Sew Sumi

[Fuzzysox]

Wow

[Marigny]

 

 

Back to the topic:  considering how much the Duggars shun the media (in terms of watching it, reading it, etc.), I wonder how much Smuggar is aware of the public sentiment about it.  Ignorance may be bliss for him right now.  UGH!  But I can see him & Anna staying cocooned in their little world so none of it bothers them.  They've prayed for "forgiveness" so, in their minds, it's all behind them now.  The nickname "Smuggar" has never been more appropriate than now.

 

 

I think that they would like us to believe that they only use the evil interwebs for all things wholesome but I don't believe that for a second. They've been sipping the celebrity Kool Aid for a while now and that lovely elixir is served with a side of narcissism. No one can make me believe that they aren't trolling forums just like this one with those fancy not-purchased-used iPhones they all possess. There have been too many cases of something playing out on screen that "subtly" refutes what's being/been talked about on the boards for them not to be trolling. Its obvious from the past couple of weeks that they don't have a PR team/person who would be the one doing the trolling so they could keep their hands clean. 

[TomServo]

Lena was 7 when the incident occurred, and every professional pointed out that this was normal behavior.  A true example of playing doctor.  Josh, on the other hand, was 14.  There's a huge difference here.  

 

I'll go on record as saying that I think Lena is just as creepy as Josh if not worse.  Her book did not describe one little "playing doctor" incident when she was seven.  It talks about other creepy things she did toward her sister up until Lena was at least seventeen years old.

[Sew Sumi]

I remember them having a PR person, but I think that person may be more for access to the radio and TV interviews, as well as the conduit to People. I remember it being a female. I am convinced that she has NO training in crisis management, because if the Duggars were taking her advice at the beginning of this, starting with Anna's statement, they have been steered totally wrong. That is, until they hunkered down and went dark. That is pretty much the only smart thing they've done in years. 

[Beth64]

My mouth is hanging open.
BOOM.

IIRC, Michael Reagan was abused as a child. Edited May 31, 2015 by aethera
fixed quotes :)

[autumnh]

I just wanted to pop in and say THANK YOU to all of the wonderful folks here who took the time to message me....it meant the world. Aside from the Duggar scandal....we truly have great folks in this forum....if I could hug you all...I would...your kind words, prayers and good thoughts mean everything.

 

Yes...it it safe to say we have the smartest, kindest and well most awesome members.

 

Thank you all! <3

Edited May 30, 2015 by autumnh

[lottiedottie]

I remember them having a PR person, but I think that person may be more for access to the radio and TV interviews, as well as the conduit to People. I remember it being a female. I am convinced that she has NO training in crisis management, because if the Duggars were taking her advice at the beginning of this, starting with Anna's statement, they have been steered totally wrong. That is, until they hunkered down and went dark. That is pretty much the only smart thing they've done in years. 

Maybe Sierra is stepping in.

[RandomX]

I just took a look at fakejoshduggar.whatever. Wow. I now dislike this family and I am enjoying hearing others take on the situation, but a shit load of time and effort went into that site. That shows a great deal of focused rage. Who has time for such nonsense? And no, I am not suggesting we track down the site owners. Really who gives a shit who owned what house when? They are proven liars and they will get what is coming to them. Step away from the computer and step out into the sunshine! TLC will cancel the show or we will all stop watching. Period.

We can't save them from themselves and I worry about those whose hatred is so focused and vengeful. I fear it adds fuel to the fire of those who are saying that all this furor is just because of the Duggar's religious beliefs. Sites like that detract from the fact that Josh molestested his sisters. His mother and father covered it up. So they lied about houses and such. Why is that surprising? Anyone who would lie to protect a pedophile is capable of anything.

The Duggars spent a lot of time focusing hate and vengeance on people who aren't like them: gay and trans people were their most visible targets, but not their only targets. They made enemies and it's not surprising that some of those enemies are proving to be resourceful -- it's like a crowd-sourced investigation.

ETA: The people targeted with vile accusations by the Duggars didn't need to stoop to the same level -- everything that has come to light has been documented.

Leg-humpers will continue to hump legs; it's what they do.

Edited May 30, 2015 by RandomX

[lonerafter]

So I've been sifting through this thread all day, and part of the fj threads (though I've never registered there, as I've always been what I consider a casual viewer. I watch, read the boards the next day, and forget about them until the next week). I haven't added anything since my first general shock post that I think we all made at some point, because I didn't have anything to really add. But I was just thinking about a couple of the questions people had asked. The ones along the lines of why do the show when you have this skeleton, are they really shocked at the scandal, etc.

Here's what I think, they didn't think this was a scandal. I mean, in JB and Ms eyes Josh had gone to his labor camp, repented, probably been forgiven by the sisters (even if they were forced to forgive him) so all is well, right? I'll admit I wasn't as good as some others who took notes on the police report, but if I remember correctly towards the end when they're mentioning lawyers and all JB seems eager to drop it. I know you can't truly get tone from a report, but from how we've seen him act I wouldn't doubt it.

Also, on them being mostly quiet about this, they're probably scared more dirt will be dug up (which seems to be their main goal in the Josh thread on fj), and you can't make a statement about "we're so sorry, every family has their one big failure" when there are more failures that may come to light. I mean we've seen the ATI blog posts going around after this scandal, the conditions most of these families live in and what the wives and kids experience, maybe the Duggars haven't been like that since their show, but that obviously doesn't mean it can't come out.

Finally, while the fact that there had to be victims at all is horrible, maybe this will she'd some more light on ATI and the basic training thing I forgot the acronym for (sorry). I doubt it will have any long term effects, I mean they had FLDS raids and that was a big controversial thing for like a uear, then it died down. As long as the ATI community doesn't put themselves in the spotlight, the awareness will likely go down just like the Mormons.

I apologize for any typos, this is from my phone so idrk if autocorrect did it's job or not since it's not letting me actually see the words I'm typing?

[Sew Sumi]

Maybe Sierra is stepping in.

FTW!!!! :D

[becca3891]

I'm not sure if I could be comfortable with viewing therapy in any form.

 Agreed. Reality TV is staged enough as it is, and while it's not so bad having a store owner pretend the family is walking through the door for the first time, taping a therapy session would be a joke. I really hope they have had the opportunity for it, though. It breaks my heart to think of Journey to the Heart masquerading as counseling, when it is nothing but mind control and victim blaming.

 

(Editing to remove comments I made while in a bad mood earlier.)

Edited May 30, 2015 by becca3891

[Yolapukka]

On another site I visit where this is being discussed someone is insisting there was no cover up and no hypocricy because this happened in 2003 and the Duggars didn't go on TV until 2005.  I wasn't watching the show back then but I'm pretty sure they always portrayed themselves as pure as the driven snow with Josh being the jewel in their crown.  I have no idea why this person thinks it shouldn't matter since the molesting didn't happen when the show was actually being aired.

 

 

To me the hypocrisy and cover-up lies in their continued promotion of their rigid notions of gender roles as the best way to raise happy, wholesome children when they had already lived through a horrifying example of things going in the opposite direction. It would not have been hypocritical (to me) if they continued to cling to their values while they were still processing Josh's revolting predatory behaviour, but I can't understand how they could continue to do so afterwards and to seemingly double down on their dogma. They had the molester and girls who included some who had been molested by their brother give public voice to the very principles that he twisted, principles which insinuated or outright stated that girls who were prepubescent children were responsible for managing the sexual impulses of older males and if they did so, all would be right. From the beginning Michelle and Jim-Bob were hypocrites, hiding the truth of what their notions of purity, appropriate behaviour and purposeful ignorance had failed to prevent and had possibly enabled.

Edited May 30, 2015 by yuggapukka

[RandomX]

Maybe Sierra is stepping in.

THAT'S the spinoff I'd watch.

[autumnh]

I have to say?  and I am being super honest...

 

The thought of a spinoff with any of the girls is horrifying. You have to realize in your logical mind that JB and Michelle are the engine behind this. I have NO doubt that should this EVER come to fruition...it is on JB and Michelle's terms...and I would not doubt.one.bit. that TLC didn't know.

 

 

Ugh...UGH UGH UGH...just say no....even with  a spinoff  we would never truly be free of the "machine" behind this horrible crime. 

Edited May 30, 2015 by autumnh

[TheFinalRose]

I was in Oprah's audience once. They go through your purse; I remember they took a little blank notebook I had and of course cell phones (although this was before everyone had smart phones) during filming but there was no gag order on talking about what you saw. So I imagine if the Duggar episode was filmed those audience members would not be sworn to silence.  

 

[Mrsjumbo]

Some have wondered why the Duggar

GGirls are staying silent. I'm finally catching up on reading the local newspapers (I'm in NW AR) & the NWA Dem Gazette from last Fri says "the report is heavily redacted & doesnt include identifying information regarding the juveniles involved". Later it says "Jb & M told police they learned of a person improperly touching victims in their home in 2002 & 2003".

Of course we can read between the lines & figure out who most of these victims were, but i havent actually seen his sisters named in the papers or on TV news.

When have the Duggars ever admitted something if they didn't have to? In this case, that's a good thing that they haven't trotted the girls out with a "forgiveness speech". Let the girls have their privacy.

[HumblePi]

Some have wondered why the Duggar

GGirls are staying silent. I'm finally catching up on reading the local newspapers (I'm in NW AR) & the NWA Dem Gazette from last Fri says "the report is heavily redacted & doesnt include identifying information regarding the juveniles involved". Later it says "Jb & M told police they learned of a person improperly touching victims in their home in 2002 & 2003".

Of course we can read between the lines & figure out who most of these victims were, but i havent actually seen his sisters named in the papers or on TV news.

When have the Duggars ever admitted something if they didn't have to? In this case, that's a good thing that they haven't trotted the girls out with a "forgiveness speech". Let the girls have their privacy.

Wow Mrsjumbo, you have a whole lot of catching up to do. I suggest you either read these comments starting last Thursday or read more of the story online. The news broke on May 22nd. The girls were minors and their names have been withheld of course due to their ages.

[Sew Sumi]

mrsJumbo, start with the police report. It was so poorly redacted that one sentence gives away 80% of the victims' residences. Further reading gives away other clues as to some particular identites. I don't want to get in trouble, so I'll leave it there. 

[graefin]

The important part of that piece was when and from whom that house was purchased. It was to move Josh out of the situation after the DHS hearing.

Wait, so Josh lived there alone before he was married?

[Celia Rubenstein]

The important part of that piece was when and from whom that house was purchased. It was to move Josh out of the situation after the DHS hearing.

 

So, if I am understanding this correctly, Josh lost his bid to challenge restrictions that the DHS had in place against him and he had to move out of the family home.  

 

But .... if he had restrictions barring him from the family home, why was he living there?    That is where he was living, wasn't it?  

 

Why did he suddenly have to move out?  

 

Someone help me out here. 

[Micks Picks]

I'm pleased to see the Reagan article linked and positively commented upon.  I usually get the idea here that anything from a conservative, republican, particularly while male is automatically scorned.

 

Regarding why the therapist from the media wh  e Dr Drew did not visit with the older girls, it is perfectly appropriate that she speak to the little kids of similar ages, say 11 or 12 and under so that they knew what was appropriate and what to say and do.