Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[msblossom]

I find it hopeful that the second generation of Duggars are blurring the lines a bit.

I am a consevative Christian and find the Duggars brand of Christianity to be legalistic and in opposition to what Christ was all about -- GRACE. The Duggars are practicing Pharisees -- all about keeping the law. And then they create laws around the laws/commandments and then they create more laws around the laws they just created, and it's a never ending cycle of do's and dont's. It is by grace we are saved, not by keeping the law. It's a gift from God, not something that can be earned by trying to be "good". No one is good enough, that's grace.

Josh moving to DC and getting out from under JB's thumb and rubbing shoulders with Christians who don't practice the absurd form of Christianity he does gives me a grain of hope.

Edited September 28, 2014 by msblossom

[GEML]

The point is that Josh is already hired. He doesn't need a job, just a credential if he hopes to advance from where he is now.

[JennDear77]

How can someone take online classes to become a lawyer. Who would hire this person? I can see taking online classes in Paralegal Studies or Legal Administrative Specialist, but law courses on the way becoming a lawyer. I must be missing something here.

I could see Josh taking online classes to be a Paralegal but telling people "I'm in law school". The Duggars have no problem stretching the truth when they need to.

[fliptopbox]

Well someone else already stated that you need a Bachelors Degree to even be considered for law school, and we all know Josh doesn't have one of those. I think his chances of ever being a real lawyer are very slim. That would require effort and dedication, which is something most of the Duggar clan do not have a lot of. Unless it's spouting rhetoric.

[GEML]

There is an online program through a Trinity law " school" that allows you to bypass the BA with certain real life experiences. You can google and read about it for yourselves. It certainly is not law school as anyone would recognize it, and it is not accredited. But you don't actually have to go to law school in a handful of states to sit for the bar, and it's passing the bar that allows you to practice law. He would be Joshua Duggar, Esquire, but never Joshua Duggar, JD.

[DangerousMinds]

I wonder where Josh and Anna and family go to church in the DC area? Someone else's compound?

[bigskygirl]

If Josh is really doing this, I am surprise it has not hit social media because Jim Bob and Michelle like to boast about how hard working, independent, and bright Josh is.

[GEML]

I don't think it's being talked about because it sounds pretty stupid, especially in highly credentialed cities like DC. What I think is happening is that he's quietly trying to make it happens so he can later say "Yes, I'm an attorney" and people will make assumptions about where he went to school without him actually having to say.

[WTFFF]

 

What I think is happening is that he's quietly trying to make it happens so he can later say "Yes, I'm an attorney" and people will make assumptions about where he went to school without him actually having to say.

 

I think you've nailed it here.  Why do the Duggars seem to do anything?  So they can tell everyone else what to do with less resistance.  Or that's how I usually see it.

[Ilovemylabs]

Well, I thought it was interesting that Anna stated that she wanted to enjoy her time NOW with the children she has and not constantly project into the future about potential other kids.  I think she's a good mom.  Don't forget, she's young and so she might not know all the little tricks that some of us are aware of to make cooking easier.  My kids are grown and married and I'm still learning stuff.  I admire that she wants to cook better and healthier for her family.  I think about how others might look at what I've served at times and been surprised and critical.  It can also be cultural.  She is a southern gal and traditional southern cooking (not the newer cuisine) can be somewhat heavy on fat and carbs.  Also, she did not grow up in a family with a lot of money and it is usually cheaper to fill hungry stomachs with carbs than lean meats and protein.  But whatever the case, she is trying to do better by her family and I think the effort is genuine.  Just my opinion.  I tend to like her.

Edited October 7, 2014 by Ilovemylabs

[lottiedottie]

Anna is growing on me. Her comments about enjoying the children she has were a refreshing change to J'Chelle's Very Special Uterus. What a novel concept--have children, even a lot of them, but take the time to enjoy them. That's good parenting. I think moving away was very healthy for her and Josh. I bet they have a stash of Trojans in the bedside table. It sounds like they are consciously avoiding pregnancy right now.

[bigskygirl]

I would not be surprise if Michelle and JB were the same way with their first three. Josh and Anna think they are something special since they got married and had three children in a short period of time. News flash, they are not the first or last couple to do this. I would be more impress if they left the Gothard movement and become totally independent from mommy and daddy. Josh would probably fall flat on his face if he did not have his family and TLC helping him since he has no skills or the drive to succeed on his own.

[BitterApple]

Anna is growing on me. Her comments about enjoying the children she has were a refreshing change to J'Chelle's Very Special Uterus. What a novel concept--have children, even a lot of them, but take the time to enjoy them. That's good parenting. I think moving away was very healthy for her and Josh. I bet they have a stash of Trojans in the bedside table. It sounds like they are consciously avoiding pregnancy right now.

I think both Anna and Josh have strong memories of growing up in families where they were always scrimping and scrounging and luxuries were non-existent. By the time TTH was finished Josh was already 17 or 18, so he didn't get nearly as cushy a childhood as the Howlers and Littles currently have. 

 

Now he and Anna have a nice big house, a good income and a manageable number of children. Three is still a handful, but life will get easier when the younger two are out of diapers and they can become more independent. 

 

Anna is living in yuppie-ville and shopping at overpriced farmer's markets. I don't think she wants to revert back to buying gallon-sized cans of generic fruit cocktail at Aldi's. I agree 100% that they're either using birth control or charting her cycles to limit the chance of conception.

[GEML]

You figure this is already a culture that charts cycles to get pregnant. Doesn't take a genius to figure out how to make it less likely.

I'm sure they will have more children, and Anna almost certainly wants more. But consider how far of a person she had come from the young woman in the first months of her marriage who could hardly bear the first months without becoming pregnant to the woman she is now who can at least talk about raising and enjoying her children as real people instead of focusing on baby fever.

[WTFFF]

I'm glad that Anna seems to have recovered in her lapse towards Michelle-dom, moaning about how she had baby fever and wanted another when Marcus was only four months old.  Seems like she's back to her old self, which is a relief.  (Though the IG pic of Mack sweeping the kitchen floor hashtagged "servantsheart" made me cock an eyebrow.)

[TobyBelle]

What Josh Duggar has is the ability to go into certain types of homes, organizations and churches and raise money.  That may not sound very important to anyone here, but it's a big deal to certain groups in Washington.  The Quiverfull/homeschool/die hard Fundamentalist groups are not political homogenous.  They do not vote regularly for the same political party the way other religious groups do, and there are groups in DC that would like to try to change that and tap into those resources.  In those circles, Josh's name DOES mean something, and he's a pretty decent public speaker, and he knows all the right words and buzz words.  He has the right story and the correct upbringing and he married into the same circles and can talk about people like his brother-in-law (ATI) and future brother-in-law (Vision Forum).  He can go where evangelicals, Mormons and Catholics cannot.

And again, these are not groups that expect to win elections, but they want to make themselves relevant to political parties who are running.  The fact that they campaign for candidates that don't win doesn't matter.  They simply need to remain visible to raise money and maintain their influence to show to the larger parties that they can't be dismissed completely.  Josh Duggar does this as well as anyone, although at this point, given his lack of credentials, I'm not sure where he goes from where he is.

I was scared of getting in trouble so I moved this to the Josh and Anna thread just in case. :)

 

I liked what you said GEML. I know that it isn't very popular with everyone with what he is doing and especially because he might've gotten his position due to his name, but I would like to give him the benefit of the doubt as well. We all seem to agree that the move to DC was a good thing for him and Anna and perhaps it is starting to show now. (And, by the way, was it ever said how they made the decision to take the DC job? I would've liked to have heard their thinking process). And even though he doesn't have a college degree, who knows what's in store for him in the future. He'll probably make connections with other people who will give him new opportunities and who knows what doors that will open up for him especially with what he is learning now and with developing new skills. Everyone has to start from somewhere and maybe he'll be able to find his place eventually. It just may have started later than normal, but it will be interesting to watch. Please don't judge me for being on his side on this one!

[BitterApple]

I don't see anything wrong with Josh using his name to secure a cushy job, because who else wouldn't do the same if given the opportunity? Half of the actors in Hollywood got their start because they were the offspring of someone famous. Kate Hudson, Jaime Lee Curtis, Melanie Griffith, Angelina Jolie, Gwyneth Paltrow, Tori Spelling and Liza Minelli all had parents who were Hollywood heavyweights. Chelsea Clinton and Jenna Bush got tv gigs thanks to family connections. Caroline Kennedy got a cushy Ambassador position thanks to her last name. If you have that advantage in life, by all means use it.

[lottiedottie]

I'm glad that Anna seems to have recovered in her lapse towards Michelle-dom, moaning about how she had baby fever and wanted another when Marcus was only four months old.  Seems like she's back to her old self, which is a relief.  (Though the IG pic of Mack sweeping the kitchen floor hashtagged "servantsheart" made me cock an eyebrow.)

It should have been #indenturedservant .

[bigskygirl]

Most of the people you have listed have talent, skills or work hard to get where they are at. The only talent Josh has is to repeat over and over again what his parents have taught him to belief. He tries to sell his beliefs to others and to build God's Army in the hope of changing the minds of all heathens.

[cereality]

Thinking back to my bar exam days -- I recall that in most/many jurisdictions you are able to "read" law and then take the bar. Meaning you don't have to go to law school or get a formal degree, rather you study law on your own and/or as an apprentice to a lawyer and then if you pass the bar, you are a lawyer. I've never heard of anyone exercising this option, but I think it's on the code from the civil war days. If Josh is taking online classes through Trinity or elsewhere to learn the law so that he can take the bar and thus say "Esq" on his resume -- he may be doing it because he knows DC is a credential heavy town and it's possible his organization has told him or implied that it's ok for now to have him there without a degree but it won't be condoned forever; or he may be doing it to bump himself on the payscale.

 

Problem with this -- DC is a credential heavy town; it has something like the most ivy league grads and the most PhDs per capita of anywhere in the U.S. It's one of the few places where people look at ivy league resumes and say "so what" because they see so many of them. I'm not sure that in a town like that a degree from an online law school is going to be worth anything to anyone. And I'd imagine he'd take the Arkansas bar and then waive into DC -- giving him the option to go back to Arkansas eventually. Arkansas's bar passage rate is less than 75%; sounds like an upward struggle for someone who likely doesn't have the appropriate reading comprehension skills given his lack of a high school education. It's one thing to be able to schmooze enough to fundraise for conservative candidates -- it's another to be able to have the critical reasoning skills to be able to pass the bar.

 

Good for Anna and Josh for slowing down the baby making. They are coming from a culture that constantly charts cycles etc. in order to make sure women get pregnant asap. Given that -- it isn't hard for Anna (or even Josh if he is sneaking a look at the charting) to know when the most fertile times are and to conveniently avoid sex during those times. Hell given that they have 3 young kids and are probably tired, they can probably avoid sex a lot without even trying and thus don't have to worry about offending the other person all the time; that alone will space out the pregnancies for a few more yrs.

[GEML]

Cereality- your comments are exactly what I'm saying and thinking. I DO think Josh has talents and ability; it just isn't one that isn't recognized and appreciated here. Most people would be surprised by how poor most fundraisers and public speakers are at Josh's level (in all political parties and for all causes). Think about how many times you have tossed aside a fundraising brochure or tuned someone out who does this. In Josh's world, he will be heard. That's a big skill to have. A lot of people like him, his wife and his little family, even outside of the Duggar compound.

But the credential issue is the elephant in the room. (Pardon the political pun.). You do not have to be connected to break into DC, but you almost always have to be either connected or credentialed. Being both is best. He needs some letters after his name, and he needs them BADLY.

The Trinity program has you sit for the California bar. That's one of the toughest. He passes that one, he should be able to cross over into quite a few other states (all states can transfer into DC). But there will be no way around the fact that when it comes to moving forward, his current lack of credentials will hurt him. DC is a tough town, and it chews up and spits out thousands of ambitious, smart, connected young people every year. I think they've changed a lot since coming here (my family is in DC) and mostly for the better. I hope they make it, one way or another.

[trimthatfat]

Most of the people you have listed have talent, skills or work hard to get where they are at.

That is highly debatable, imo. A lot of people listed have used their family names to get far and their acting ability is questionable at best.

 

I can't begrudge Josh for using whatever he has to get somewhere outside of the Duggar compound. I find his beliefs incredibly ignorant and I think he's a bit of dolt, but I don't take any issue with him providing for his family through the connections he's made due to his last name. You have to use what you have to get what you want. Whether I agree with his views or not, he is a decent public speaker with a well-known name and he's been hired to be a mouthpiece.I said this in another thread (can't find the reply), but if I had a well-known name and could use that to advance in my career, I absolutely would, others' opinions be damned.

Edited October 2, 2014 by trimthatfat

[GEML]

That's how I feel. While I disagree completely with what he is doing and stands for, there are organizations in DC that find him very useful, and he can offer them something that not everyone can. He genuinely like people, which must have been difficult in a world where he was forced to be such a recluse and for the most part was surrounded by introverts. That he has found a way to use that part of his personality within his world - well, more power to him. And it's clear that his wife supports and is proud of him. In fact, for all he is accused of cashing in on his name and riding his family's coattails, I think he would still be back in AR doing what JB wanted if it weren't for his wife.

[Temperance]

I can't tell from watching the show whether Josh and Anna are actively trying something even as mild as the rhythm method, (which the church Josh grew up in seems to be against) or if they are just not as fertile as ma and pa. I don't necessarily believe they are consciously choosing to have fewer children and I also expect them to announce baby #4 any time now. Either way I see Anna's contentment with the children she has as less of a "I don't want that many kids mentality" and more just "I'm grateful for as many children as we do have".  If it's the latter, it's still a big change from Michelle. who always seems to want one more and doesn't seem to appreciate how lucky she is. (Although personally I would never want 19 myself.)

[floridamom]

I don't believe for one minute that Anna isn't "just like Michelle". I heard what she said on TV last week about not needing to be validated by constantly "expecting". I also believe that was to appease public comment on these websites. Someone, somewhere is reading them, and I'm glad they are. Anna just doesn't know any different. I also think it is Josh who is holding back the baby train as it is him, who feels the financial pressure. Yes, even though the money train is good right now, he is the oldest of the kids and remembers the most about growing up. He knows quite well that he can't build a house like Daddy's right now and maybe never will. It was Anna who had baby fever from the first day of her honeymoon, not Josh. He was fine in "waiting". I think he is conveniently "tired" after work.

Anna may not need to feel validated by continuing to expand her family, but that is just what she wants. What do you all think?

[GEML]

I don't think boards like these have as much power as we think. I do agree that Josh is more the one holding back, but I also think that Anna is a lot more intelligent and thoughtful than Michelle ever had the chance to be.

[juneday]

I'm not sure how much weight these types of boards have, especially with the Duggars, but I do agree that Anna seems like she has a better grasp of things than Michelle does. She seems to really love and be grateful for the children she has, and not see getting pregnant as some weird way to get and keep attention. It just seems that way to me.

[Guest]

I wonder if they're not actively trying or not trying.  Maybe they don't chart.  I think Jim Bob and Michelle actively try.  They aren't really just "leaving it in God's hands." They chart her cycles and probably have (or had when she was a baby factory) extra sex during that time.

 

Anna and Josh could be just going with the flow.  Anna's family, while large, is not as hugely large as the Duggars, so maybe her family had this more moderate approach as well.

[zenme]

Maybe FRC monitors these sites to get a feeling for how they can wrangle their way in the hearts of America via the Smuggars. I don't buy that these 2 aren't a whole hell of a lot less different than Ma and Pa. Yes, Anna is more attentive to the kids, but she only has 3. If Josh wants to keep working for FRC he and Anna have to seem more in touch with "regular folk."

[msblossom]

I don't believe for one minute that Anna isn't "just like Michelle". I heard what she said on TV last week about not needing to be validated by constantly "expecting". I also believe that was to appease public comment on these websites. Someone, somewhere is reading them, and I'm glad they are. Anna just doesn't know any different. I also think it is Josh who is holding back the baby train as it is him, who feels the financial pressure. Yes, even though the money train is good right now, he is the oldest of the kids and remembers the most about growing up. He knows quite well that he can't build a house like Daddy's right now and maybe never will. It was Anna who had baby fever from the first day of her honeymoon, not Josh. He was fine in "waiting". I think he is conveniently "tired" after work.

Anna may not need to feel validated by continuing to expand her family, but that is just what she wants. What do you all think?

floridamom,

Don't you think Anna has evolved from some of her old thinking since moving to DC and establishing her own life and thoughts away from the Duggars? It's my belief that a person changes and establishes their core values and identity more in their 20's and early 30's than at any other time of life. I don't have a close pulse on what this family is like off-camera, but I doubt this significant change in Anna is a reaction to public opinion, at least that's my thought. Time will tell.

[trimthatfat]

I'm not sure how much weight these types of boards have, especially with the Duggars, but I do agree that Anna seems like she has a better grasp of things than Michelle does. She seems to really love and be grateful for the children she has, and not see getting pregnant as some weird way to get and keep attention. It just seems that way to me.

I don't think these boards have any weight at all. I don't think that public opinion on these boards influence the thinking of anyone involved with or on this show.

 

Whatever Anna is thinking/feeling comes from, imo, introspection. I've said this before, but I think it's a very good thing that Josh and Anna moved to DC and don't have the daily crutch of the Duggar family. Are they completely independent? No. But I do think being forced to interact with people in a relatively diverse city has caused them to rethink things a little bit.

[Adeejay]

Don't you think Anna has evolved from some of her old thinking since moving to DC and establishing her own life and thoughts away from the Duggars?

 

There is no doubt that Anna has evolved.  Sometimes when I am working from home, I will tune into the earlier shows.  It's hard to believe this is the same naïve girl with the crooked smile and cheap, dowdy clothing.  It's also hard to see what Josh saw in her.  Fast forward four years; she seems more confident and her ward robe has vastly improved.  Plus, when compared to the pasty looking Duggar girls, her kids look healthier and seem happier.

Edited October 6, 2014 by Adeejay

[GEML]

One very basic point -- in the world Anna lived before, having a large family was the main way women were able to get attention - at least positive attention.  This is still true for her sisters.  But Anna has many other ways to get positive attention, and also be part of a so-called "ministry" and be an "encouragement" to others no only through the television show, but also through public appearances that she would be doing with Josh through his job.  Her life as a wife and mother is important to his job -- she needs to be polished and professional and gracious in her job as profession wife and mother, not frumpy and dowdy and unhealthy.  That just isn't an option for her in DC the way it is for women living the Gothard lifestyle, including, for most of her life, Michelle.  And again, not only because of the television show, but because she will be out with Josh helping to raise money.

So she has a lot of attention in ways she probably never dreamed she would have it. She also has three very delightful and rowdy children. Having more of them is definitely part of her plan (and I legitimately think she wants more) but she no longer needs to do it because that is the way to call attention to herself within her own world.

[graefin]

I don't think these boards have any weight at all. I don't think that public opinion on these boards influence the thinking of anyone involved with or on this show.

Oh, I think the opposite. TPTB most certainly read boards like these, and I'd be willing to wager that their story lines are often influenced by what they read.

[trimthatfat]

Oh, I think the opposite. TPTB most certainly read boards like these, and I'd be willing to wager that their story lines are often influenced by what they read.

I'll agree to disagree. If the show truly took feedback to heart and took it into consideration when mapping out the direction of the show, many things about this show would be different.

Edited October 6, 2014 by trimthatfat

[graefin]

I'll agree to disagree. If the show truly took feedback to heart and took it into consideration when mapping out the direction of the show, many things about this show would be different.

Eh, maybe they already *are*, but there is only so much they can change before the Duggars become an entirely different family from who they are. Do people really believe Anna would express a thought like, "I don't need to have a baby to feel validated" without being prompted? I certainly don't.

[trimthatfat]

Eh, maybe they already *are*, but there is only so much they can change before the Duggars become an entirely different family from who they are. Do people really believe Anna would express a thought like, "I don't need to have a baby to feel validated" without being prompted? I certainly don't.

Yes, I do believe that, and I'm not saying that to be argumentative either. But like I said, I'll agree to disagree.

Edited October 6, 2014 by trimthatfat

[TobyBelle]

One very basic point -- in the world Anna lived before, having a large family was the main way women were able to get attention - at least positive attention.  This is still true for her sisters.  But Anna has many other ways to get positive attention, and also be part of a so-called "ministry" and be an "encouragement" to others no only through the television show, but also through public appearances that she would be doing with Josh through his job.  Her life as a wife and mother is important to his job -- she needs to be polished and professional and gracious in her job as profession wife and mother, not frumpy and dowdy and unhealthy.  That just isn't an option for her in DC the way it is for women living the Gothard lifestyle, including, for most of her life, Michelle.  And again, not only because of the television show, but because she will be out with Josh helping to raise money.

So she has a lot of attention in ways she probably never dreamed she would have it. She also has three very delightful and rowdy children. Having more of them is definitely part of her plan (and I legitimately think she wants more) but she no longer needs to do it because that is the way to call attention to herself within her own world.

floridamom,

Don't you think Anna has evolved from some of her old thinking since moving to DC and establishing her own life and thoughts away from the Duggars? It's my belief that a person changes and establishes their core values and identity more in their 20's and early 30's than at any other time of life. I don't have a close pulse on what this family is like off-camera, but I doubt this significant change in Anna is a reaction to public opinion, at least that's my thought. Time will tell.

To add, I think she is getting a different experience in DC. I don't remember which episode, but there was a scene of her taking the kids to the library and joining a story time group. It was uncomfortable for her and she volunteered to read a book aloud to the group. She is probably getting a lot of interaction with different groups of people and witnessing different lifestyles. She now has to measure those to the values and worldviews she has grown up with. Maybe she likes what she sees and realizes that her faith isn't legalistic like the Duggars practice it to be.

[GEML]

I'm another who doesn't think Anna needs boards like this one to be nudged into saying "I don't need to be pregnant in order to feel validated."

I will go so far as to add that probably no one is more surprised to have come to that realization than Anna herself! :)

[Ljohnson1987]

Saw Micheal's birth episode today.  I can't believe that they were going possibly let him be born on the dirty bus!  I felt for Anna when she was crying in pain, and no one was doing anything for her. Why couldn't she go to the hospital and get some relief after 17 hours of agony?

[kassygreene]

I think we're forgetting something rather crucial to Anna's development.  More than possibly any other outsider (and I don't include TLC as outsiders, they are making money from this slow-motion tragedy), Anna has seen the Duggars, ESPECIALLY Mechelle, when the cameras have left the building.  She saw how supportive her her mother-in-law was at the births of each of her kids, who just happen to be Mechelle's  first, second, third, and to date only, grandchildren.  She's seen how Mechelle interacts with these long-yearned-for blessings (one of the spots I saw when I was sampling this show four years ago was an interview where Mechelle was talking about how much she looked forward to grand-blessings, and each of her kids getting married, and so on).  Words don't match actions.
 
Add in the incredibly inconsiderate behavior of the Duggars in bus mode (late, early, no warning, no apologies), the housing favoritism, and especially Josh being old enough to have witnessed the evolution of this dog-and-pony, and I don't see Josh returning to the mindless flock, dragging Anna behind him.  I don't see Anna wanting him to do so.

 

In their own culture, the men rule their families.  Josh doesn't have to go back or go along, although his job won't let him be the party "at fault" in that family divorce.  But if things do go sideways back at the kidfarm, Josh and Anna are well-positioned to survive.

Edited October 7, 2014 by kassygreene

[TobyBelle]

Saw Micheal's birth episode today.  I can't believe that they were going possibly let him be born on the dirty bus!  I felt for Anna when she was crying in pain, and no one was doing anything for her. Why couldn't she go to the hospital and get some relief after 17 hours of agony?

I just finished watching this episode too! It's interesting to backtrack with all the old episodes in light of how we are talking about Anna's changing. There was the scene they were getting pedicures and Michelle is lecturing Anna about delivery the second time around. Anna had this look on her face like she was being given unsolicited advice and wanted Michelle to stop talking. In response she said, "I'm just thinking about the baby right now and not the labor and delivery." Michelle, shot down, only could say that is a good perspective to have. Maybe the typical DIL/MIL relationship (if you know what I mean) has always been there and we haven't noticed until the DC move.

It was touching to see Anna in labor and holding Mackenzie. That was really sweet to witness. I can't believe Josh went off to sleep when Anna was having trouble pushing that baby out!

[Barb23]

Saw Micheal's birth episode today. I can't believe that they were going possibly let him be born on the dirty bus! I felt for Anna when she was crying in pain, and no one was doing anything for her. Why couldn't she go to the hospital and get some relief after 17 hours of agony?

I watched it too & agree she needed to go to the hospital. Earlier in episode she had sonogram & they were laughing that the baby had the big Duggar head. Didn't she realize this would hinder his birth since she has a small frame & maybe she should deliver at a hospital? I was so tired of hearing MEchelle & Smugs saying she was doing just fine & the birth would happen soon but the poor thing labored on in extreme pain. Since it was just the Doula Theresa helping deliver & not a certified midwife, she was basically on her own. They never showed Theresa listening for the baby's heartbeat or even taking Anna's BP. (i guess being a doula she's not trained for that.) He could have been in fetal distress & they wouldn't have known. Thank heaven they had God watching over them or poor Michael or Anna could have died. I know from experience because my son was born by emergency C-section because of fetal distress/rapidly declining heartbeat. Luckily he was born healthy with no problems & thank God I was in a hospital with my OB, a nurse practitioner, a pediatrician & an anesthesiologist (I ended up with general anesthesia in the OR because epidural didn't fully numb me) to deliver him or I don't think he would be here today. So when they leave it to God to make sure the home birth (without a midwife) will be OK, it becomes a little personal for me.

[cmr2014]

 

Whatever Anna is thinking/feeling comes from, imo, introspection. I've said this before, but I think it's a very good thing that Josh and Anna moved to DC and don't have the daily crutch of the Duggar family. Are they completely independent? No. But I do think being forced to interact with people in a relatively diverse city has caused them to rethink things a little bit.

 

I agree.

 

I dislike Josh's values and have huge problems with the organization that he works for, but I find myself disliking Josh a lot less since they moved to DC. Josh and Anna appear to genuinely love each other, and their relationship now seems more balanced -- less smug Josh and adoring Anna. 

 

None of them has ANY experience in dealing with people outside of their tiny bubble. I think that moving away from NW AR has been the best thing they could have done -- I hope that all of the others get out sooner rather than later.

[truthtalk2014]

Saw Micheal's birth episode today.  I can't believe that they were going possibly let him be born on the dirty bus!  I felt for Anna when she was crying in pain, and no one was doing anything for her. Why couldn't she go to the hospital and get some relief after 17 hours of agony?

I have not seen that episode.  Where did you see it?  I also want to see the birth on the toilet episode.  I only saw the one where MEchelle was giving her the skank eye bitchy look on the way to the bathtub. 

[Sew Sumi]

TLC is airing older episodes during the day. Michael's birth IS the toilet birth. Yes, I too saw it again for posterity's sake. MEchelle may be present at the births of her grandkids, but she acts like she couldn't care less. Doula in training Jill (not sure if she'd declared for midwife yet) did more to help Anna through her misery than the woman who wants more and more grandkids.

[mimionthebeach]

I have not seen that episode.  Where did you see it?  I also want to see the birth on the toilet episode.  I only saw the one where MEchelle was giving her the skank eye bitchy look on the way to the bathtub. 

 

Michael's birth IS the toilet one! I saw it today. On TLC at 1pm ET. It was all a bit TMI, IMO... an interesting contradiction. You blur out her legs because modesty but no problem showing her on the toilet pushing out a baby and then holding him, fresh from the womb. Also Jill talking about how Anna had to relieve herself and that's why she was on the toilet... 

 

That said, it's pretty moving to see the moment with mom first holding baby. 

[GEML]

Whether it was producer hyped or not, the differences in opinion and reaction of the Kellers vs JB and Michelle to Josh and Anna making the move to DC is dramatic and, I think, significant. Let's compare the "oh, we are going to be a day late" Duggars with Mr Keller's outright joy upon seeing where his daughter was going to be living.

[jilliannatalia]

How can someone take online classes to become a lawyer. Who would hire this person?  I can see taking online classes in Paralegal Studies or Legal Administrative Specialist, but law courses on the way becoming a lawyer. I must be missing something here.

 

I'm an attorney.  To the best of my knowledge, none of the non-degree-requiring law schools are accredited by the American Bar Association. (I didn't deal with this because I went to an accredited law school.) There supposedly are states that allow individuals to take a bar exam after graduating from a non-approved law program. I'm not certain which states those are because the states of which I am a member of the bar (Utah, California, and D.C.) required completion of an ABA-approved program.  Perhaps Josh plans to complete his non-accredited online program, then take the bar exam in a state not requiring an undergrad degree and offering  a test so easy that a literal moron could pass it. The District of Columbia will grant bar membership status to anyone having passed and having been accepted into membership in any state bar. That's probably what josh is looking for -- D.C. bar membership status.

Edited October 7, 2014 by jilliannatalia

[WTFFF]

 

I don't think these boards have any weight at all. I don't think that public opinion on these boards influence the thinking of anyone involved with or on this show.

Sean Whatshisname, the show's producer, admitted to reading the TWoP 19KaC forums.  And a lot of criticisms brought up on that board were basically directly addressed.  Seemed like a bit of a coincidence.

 

Jill talking about how Anna had to relieve herself and that's why she was on the toilet...

 

I always thought Anna looked a bit embarrassed when Jill said that. 

Edited October 7, 2014 by WTFFF