Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[Churchhoney]

44 minutes ago, Fosca said:

I may be missing something, but where's the door into the Master suite?  

Apparently you have to fly in. Maybe that's how they demonstrate their immense spiritual gifts. 

 

35 minutes ago, iwantcookies said:

Why does Michelle need an office? To store her missing back muscles or shoes? I’m laughing so hard.  

Maybe that's her last-ditch retreat from Jim Bob's breath. "Office" is a euphemism. 

[emmawoodhouse]

2 hours ago, drafan said:

The bride's gown looks like convent nightwear. And not flattering at all.

All the bridesmaids' dresses are awful...is that Lauren next to who we think might be Josie? She has bordering-on-Nike sleeves. Tsk. Tsk.

All their hair is absolutely awful. Josie's might be the best.

I'm glad I am not the only one who hates her dress. It looks 5 sizes too big. 

Back to Smuggar... surprised the defense hasn't tried this:

 

 

Edited November 21, 2021 by emmawoodhouse

[Nysha]

"His cat roams free." 😄😄😄

[GeeGolly]

Not Federal court, but scumbags going free is not that rare. This kid, Chris Belter, is a Josh in the making. This guy says he's been watching porn since age 7 and downloaded a partition on his computer after his arrest, for rape at age 17. He raped 4 different teenage girls. Apparently his parents helped him to groom these girls and the rapes took place in the family home. He's now 20 and pleaded guilty. His sentence? 10 years probation.

I will be crossing my fingers and toes everyday in December until Josh is (hopefully) sentenced.

(And wow, who woulda thunk JB & M could ever look like good parents?)

[Rootbeer]

1 minute ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Cory, any family member who would support your wedding is either a liar or an idiot.  You are a moron. Shut up. Please.

I think you might be in the wrong forum.

[sue450]

10 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

If you avoid the flu shot, you can go for a threefer. 

yes the trifecta!

 

[marypat57]

My dearest friend had her final chemotherapy infusion for breast cancer, her covid booster and her flu shot all during the same appointment.  As she told her doctor, she might as well feel rotten for everything at once.  
This is the friend who also had both knees replaced at the same time a few years ago.

 

[Churchhoney]

On 11/20/2021 at 4:46 PM, Rootbeer said:

I am also very much over the recent custom of having bridesmaids in the double digits in the wedding.  Fundies seem to be particularly fond of it.  It looks silly to me.

"Look at all the young breed sows we have! Don't you want to join our group so you can get one?!" 

[hathorlive]

1 hour ago, Churchhoney said:

"Look at all the young breed sows we have! Don't you want to join our group so you can get one?!" 

I am not sure if this is a regional, religious, or other thing but a friend just got married and had 14 bridesmaids.  I didn't have 14 people I liked enough when I was in college, in a sorority and was speaking to most of my family. It boggles the mind. I'm sure part of it is to encourage young girls to dream of their own wedding and to get down that aisle and start making babies.

[Rootbeer]

58 minutes ago, hathorlive said:

I am not sure if this is a regional, religious, or other thing but a friend just got married and had 14 bridesmaids.  I didn't have 14 people I liked enough when I was in college, in a sorority and was speaking to most of my family. It boggles the mind. I'm sure part of it is to encourage young girls to dream of their own wedding and to get down that aisle and start making babies.

Yeah, I would've been hard pressed to come up with half a dozen people to be my wedding attendants back in the day and 4 of them would've been my sisters.  It seems like brides want a spectacle these days and having a massive herd of people tromping down the aisle ahead of them is part of it.  

As I recall, Kate Middleton had exactly one attendant; her sister, and a few flower girls.  And, yet, she still managed to make it down the aisle and get married.

[Churchhoney]

1 hour ago, hathorlive said:

I am not sure if this is a regional, religious, or other thing but a friend just got married and had 14 bridesmaids.  I didn't have 14 people I liked enough when I was in college, in a sorority and was speaking to most of my family. It boggles the mind. I'm sure part of it is to encourage young girls to dream of their own wedding and to get down that aisle and start making babies.

My non-Fundie conspiracy theory is that, just like the "diamond engagement ring" "tradition," the "trend" of a million bridesmaids could have been surreptitiously started by the bridal industry to sell a lot more crap...........

It would have been easy to do .....an ad in a bridal magazine here showing a ton of attendants at some impressive-looking wedding, another ad there, and then another...a celebrity convinced to run her wedding this way and have it photographed in return for the exposure.......And so on. 

Maybe the industry would have been inspired by the gazillions of bridesmaids they saw in some fundie wedding or whatever....or, more likely, they thought of it all on their own. but either way, voila! People jump on trends they see in advertising. So before you know it -- Millions of attendants in every wedding! 

And presto! Nearly every wedding now requires way more people to spend way more money on wedding-related goods and services than ever before! Mission accomplished!  

Don't know that this happened, of course. But when I suddenly see more of some goods being sold for no apparent reason, my first instinct is to think -- somehow this sudden spending spree was sparked by an industry program. 😁

For the fundies, though, I think it's mainly the breed sow thing....And I guess the ability of the fundie males to spin the idea that having a whole lot of their wimmin friends in their weddings is some sort of benefit for the brides. 

Edited November 22, 2021 by Churchhoney

[Minivanessa]

@Churchhoney - I agree. The whole wedding inflation thing crosses subcultures and religions, IMO, and another case where the answer may be found if you "follow the money." 

[CandyCaneTree]

As the days get closer to the trial do you think that Smuggar is running scared or is too arrogant and thinks he will get off scott free?

[Dianaofthehunt]

5 minutes ago, CandyCaneTree said:

As the days get closer to the trial do you think that Smuggar is running scared or is too arrogant and thinks he will get off scott free?

The latter, most definitely!

I want a “guilty” verdict to hit him as a complete shock and have a deleterious effect on his undies.

Edited November 22, 2021 by Dianaofthehunt
Spelling

[MargeGunderson]

36 minutes ago, Dianaofthehunt said:

The latter, most definitely!

I want a “guilty” verdict to hit him as a complete shock and have a deleterious effect on his undies.

I’d like to see a guilty verdict followed by Josh having an epic temper tantrum in the courtroom.

Edited November 22, 2021 by MargeGunderson

[quarks]

According to the most recent article on NWA Home Page, at the pretrial hearing, the prosecution discussed a list of "over a dozen" potential witnesses (the article doesn't list who these are), and thinks that testimony will take about three days, possibly bleeding over to four days.

The defense discussed four potential witnesses. Two are investigators hired by the defense, one is a computer forensics expert, and the fourth is someone that the defense said also had access to the car lot and the HP computer.*

The article didn't say if the defense had any idea how many days they would need, but did say that there are other possible witnesses; these were just the ones discussed in the pretrial meeting.

This seems to give a tentative schedule of:

November 29: Evidentiary hearing.

November 30: Trial starts; jury selection.

December 1 - 3: Prosecution testimony.

December 4 - 5: Weekend.

December 6 - 8: Defense.

December 9 - 10: Jury deliberation/verdict.

 

 

*These would be the same defense attorneys who claimed that Joshua Williams could have downloaded the CSA material, a statement they had to rapidly walk back when the prosecution pointed out that Williams was in jail at the time and they absolutely should have known that since a couple of Josh's attorneys also defended Williams.

Edited November 23, 2021 by quarks
Edited to add the Nov 29th hearing, where the judge will decide if JB and Bobye Holt can testify

[Sile]

On 11/20/2021 at 2:44 PM, Quilt Fairy said:

Is this supposedly a professional photographer?  Because in that shot of the couple, not only are they not both looking the same way, she's got 2 wooden posts coming out of her head and he's got a barrel on his shoulder.  He's also got his hands in his pockets, but that seems minor compared to the other shit.  I know I wouldn't hire this guy.  

I'm off to find the Duggar-adjacents thread where this is discussed. 

Reminiscent of the infamous wedding photo of Princess Grace sprouting a centerpiece headdress atop her veil.

There was another famous one where a chandelier made it look like the bride had sprouted antlers, but I can't remember who the couple was other than that they were well-known.

[Cinnabon]

3 hours ago, MargeGunderson said:

I’d like to see a guilty verdict followed by Josh having an epic temper tantrum in the courtroom.

Josh AND JB and Michelle

[EVS]

If found guilty, Josh seems so arrogant that I could see him thinking that his prison sentence sucks, but it is just temporary and his lawyers will get him out on appeal. I don’t think the reality of his situation will truly hit him until all appeals are exhausted.   

Edited November 22, 2021 by EVS

[Quilt Fairy]

3 hours ago, quarks said:

This seems to give a tentative schedule of:

November 30: Trial starts; jury selection.

December 1 - 3: Prosecution testimony.

December 4 - 5: Weekend.

December 6 - 8: Defense.

December 9 - 10: Jury deliberation/verdict.

I think you might want to add:

November 29 - Evidentiary hearing

[louannems]

19 hours ago, marypat57 said:

My dearest friend had her final chemotherapy infusion for breast cancer, her covid booster and her flu shot all during the same appointment.  As she told her doctor, she might as well feel rotten for everything at once.  
This is the friend who also had both knees replaced at the same time a few years ago.

 

Why not just recover once!

I'm going to be having double hip replacement surgery and I'm glad to just recover once.

[CandyCaneTree]

Santa promised me my Christmas present will be early when Smuggar gets convicted and thrown in jail. Santa also said that he put in a request for 20 years consecutively. 

[quarks]

3 hours ago, Quilt Fairy said:

I think you might want to add:

November 29 - Evidentiary hearing

You're right! I forgot that.

Edited previous post.

[iwantcookies]

This might be the last thanksgiving Josh is free to stuff his face…

[Quilt Fairy]

Courtroom protocols and jury selection procedures.  The judge is now saying that jury selection may slide over to a 2nd day. 

[emmawoodhouse]

1 hour ago, iwantcookies said:

This might be the last thanksgiving Josh is free to stuff his face…

I read on FJ that Judge Brooks appears to give sentences of 6-7 years for first time offenders. Not nearly long enough, IMO.

[CalicoKitty]

13 minutes ago, emmawoodhouse said:

I read on FJ that Judge Brooks appears to give sentences of 6-7 years for first time offenders. Not nearly long enough, IMO.

Although I would love to see Josh get the 40 year sentence he, in my opinion, deserves, 6-7 years to a pampered, smug, overly-protected wimp like him would seem like a life sentence.  He is very soft and not street smart, and he will not have daddy or daddy's friends to protect him.  He would soon learn that he is not "special".  I could see 7 years doing him in mentally as well as physically.

[GeeGolly]

8 minutes ago, CalicoKitty said:

Although I would love to see Josh get the 40 year sentence he, in my opinion, deserves, 6-7 years to a pampered, smug, overly-protected wimp like him would seem like a life sentence.  He is very soft and not street smart, and he will not have daddy or daddy's friends to protect him.  He would soon learn that he is not "special".  I could see 7 years doing him in mentally as well as physically.

I agree. Jail/prison is tough for most, but for someone like Josh its going to be very tough.

[Temperance]

Josh was allegedly at the wedding on Friday which seems to violate his parole. It's doubtful the prosecution knows, and I don't think anything will come of it.

[LilyD]

21 hours ago, Rootbeer said:

Yeah, I would've been hard pressed to come up with half a dozen people to be my wedding attendants back in the day and 4 of them would've been my sisters.  It seems like brides want a spectacle these days and having a massive herd of people tromping down the aisle ahead of them is part of it.  

As I recall, Kate Middleton had exactly one attendant; her sister, and a few flower girls.  And, yet, she still managed to make it down the aisle and get married.

I’m in North West Europe and where I’m from, we don’t have bridesmaids and/or 14 people standing with the couple when exchanging the vows….

The flower girls accompany the bride, that’s it. And after exchanging the vows, the maid of honour and best man are called forward to sign the register… that’s their only duty. Also, they pick their own clothes and sit with the other people until they are called to sign. I find the bridesmaid thing…interesting…. Never upstage the bride, yet they are required to dress in beautiful evening gowns? I can totally see how one or two can look better than the bride, thus upstaging her!

[merylinkid]

19 hours ago, MargeGunderson said:

I’d like to see a guilty verdict followed by Josh having an epic temper tantrum in the courtroom.

And he will.   Because this isn't supposed to happen him, the Prince who is to Inherit the Golden Kingdom.   He will be very shocked when the judge revokes bail and sends him straight to incarceration  upon conviction (if that happens, I doubt they will let a convicted child molester go home).   

So what happens for Thanksgiving?   Anna drags her SEVEN kids over to the Rebers so they can have Thanksgiving with Daddy?   They tell the Rebers, sorry  your OWN family can't be present because of St. Josh's bail terms?   But hey, you are piling up points in heaven by having to feed all of us.

[GeeGolly]

2 hours ago, Temperance said:

Josh was allegedly at the wedding on Friday which seems to violate his parole. It's doubtful the prosecution knows, and I don't think anything will come of it.

I hope someone turns Josh in so he can spend his last few days of freedom in jail.

[Churchhoney]

9 hours ago, emmawoodhouse said:

I read on FJ that Judge Brooks appears to give sentences of 6-7 years for first time offenders. Not nearly long enough, IMO.

That's pretty much what the federal guideline is, though. And that's true for a good reason.  They have to leave room in the sentence range for people who do have other convictions (on sex crimes or other crimes) or other exacerbating circumstances to get significantly longer sentences than those who don't appear to be habitual lawbreakers yet. . 

So that means giving sentences near the minimum to people who have no such circumstances, like Josh.  They want there to be some benefit to not getting trouble with the law over and over again, and a shorter sentence is about the only benefit they have to offer. 

As others have said, I sort of think that Josh is so smug, arrogant, ignorant, soft, spoiled, entitled and willfully naive that even the minimum sentence would really take a toll on him -- from the moment the verdict's read, I would bet.

I get the sense that he's really pretty delusional about the situation right now -- and more so because, as we keep learning, Anna, JB and Meeechelle may be delusional right along with him, which, if true, means that only the lawyers and not his family may have tried speaking truths to him lately. And I don't think the Duggarlings, including Josh, believe much of anything that doesn't come from their own family members. They're in such a bubble.  

 

Edited November 23, 2021 by Churchhoney

[GeeGolly]

10 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

That's pretty much what the federal guideline is, though. And that's true for a good reason.  They have to leave room in the sentence range for people who do have other convictions (on sex crimes or other crimes) or other exacerbating circumstances to get significantly longer sentences than those who don't appear to be habitual lawbreakers yet. . 

So that means giving sentences near the minimum to people who have no such circumstances, like Josh.  They want there to be some benefit to not getting trouble with the law over and over again, and a shorter sentence is about the only benefit they have to offer. 

Minimum through maximum sentences is the way it works, however I think the problem many of us have with Josh's case is the minimum sentence doesn't fit the crime.

Viewing and perpetuating the sexual abuse of very young minors is pretty egregious and there still would be plenty of wiggle room with starting the lowest sentence at say, 20 years.

[hathorlive]

1 hour ago, LilyD said:

I’m in North West Europe and where I’m from, we don’t have bridesmaids and/or 14 people standing with the couple when exchanging the vows….

The flower girls accompany the bride, that’s it. And after exchanging the vows, the maid of honour and best man are called forward to sign the register… that’s their only duty. Also, they pick their own clothes and sit with the other people until they are called to sign. I find the bridesmaid thing…interesting…. Never upstage the bride, yet they are required to dress in beautiful evening gowns? I can totally see how one or two can look better than the bride, thus upstaging her!

I had a best friend in college who was a model and ballet dancer.  People would stop to watch her work out, no make up and sweaty as hell and say "what a beautiful girl". I told her when I got married, I was putting her in a hoop dress with lace gloves and a parasol.  Anything to make her look ridiculous.  No bride wants to hear "who is that beautiful bridesmaid" as she's walking down the aisle. 

I think these fundy weddings are sad.  I don't mind them doing it on the cheap because it's money well saved.  But the sad, altered "modest" bridal dress.  The mismatched bridesmaid dresses.  The sad snacks posing as food after the ceremony.  It's almost a preview of the tough financial times ahead.

[hathorlive]

3 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Minimum through maximum sentences is the way it works, however I think the problem many of us have with Josh's case is the minimum sentence doesn't fit the crime.

Viewing and perpetuating the sexual abuse of very young minors is pretty egregious and there still would be plenty of wiggle room with starting the lowest sentence at say, 20 years.

It's not going to happen.  I've never seen a judge say "wow, this was really heinous stuff you downloaded, I bet a lot of young kids were hurt, so you get a bigger sentence".  I don't even think the judge looks at the videos half of the time.  Again, it will be a  Christmukah miracle if he gets anything more than 8 years.

[merylinkid]

9 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Minimum through maximum sentences is the way it works, however I think the problem many of us have with Josh's case is the minimum sentence doesn't fit the crime.

Viewing and perpetuating the sexual abuse of very young minors is pretty egregious and there still would be plenty of wiggle room with starting the lowest sentence at say, 20 years.

Yes but the sentencing guideline is already based on viewing the sexual abuse of minors.   So you can't say "because you did this thing on which the sentencing guideline is based, you get more time."  The minimum sentence does fit the crime in the wisdome of those who created the sentencing guideilnes.  The guidelines allegedly already take into account the heinous nature of the crime.   That's why CSM has a higher minimum than say, shoplifting.   

[GeeGolly]

12 minutes ago, hathorlive said:

It's not going to happen.  I've never seen a judge say "wow, this was really heinous stuff you downloaded, I bet a lot of young kids were hurt, so you get a bigger sentence".  I don't even think the judge looks at the videos half of the time.  Again, it will be a  Christmukah miracle if he gets anything more than 8 years.

5 minutes ago, merylinkid said:

Yes but the sentencing guideline is already based on viewing the sexual abuse of minors.   So you can't say "because you did this thing on which the sentencing guideline is based, you get more time."  The minimum sentence does fit the crime in the wisdome of those who created the sentencing guideilnes.  The guidelines allegedly already take into account the heinous nature of the crime.   That's why CSM has a higher minimum than say, shoplifting.   

I guess my post is unclear. In my opinion, and that of a few others, is the already formed guidelines miss the mark.  Just like its my opinion that 1 - 3 years is too much for someone possessing marijuana.

 

[Churchhoney]

39 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I guess my post is unclear. In my opinion, and that of a few others, is the already formed guidelines miss the mark.  Just like its my opinion that 1 - 3 years is too much for someone possessing marijuana.

 

No worries. We just got off track because that statement you originally responded to was somebody stating that this judge routinely gives six to seven years for first offenders.......

And none of the responses to it clarified that, instead, what people were really discussing were the guidelines themselves, not this judge's actions within the guidelines.

You were perfectly clear that you were just giving your opinion! .....But because of the way the conversation had developed, what wasn't clear was exactly what the opinion was about! 

Easy to get confused with these things we talk about here.....There are a lot of complications! 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 23, 2021 by Churchhoney

[hathorlive]

26 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

No worries. We just got off track because that statement you originally responded to was somebody stating that this judge routinely gives six to seven years for first offenders.......

And none of the responses to it clarified that, instead, what people were really discussing were the guidelines themselves, not this judge's actions within the guidelines.

You were perfectly clear that you were just giving your opinion! .....But because of the way the conversation had developed, what wasn't clear was exactly what the opinion was about! 

Easy to get confused with these things we talk about here.....There are a lot of complications! 

 

I'm just angry because these cases never get the sentences they deserve. Based on his prior behavior of abusing children, he should be strung up and beaten with spoons for life. I think he might enjoy that though.  I wish everyone who is offended would write their elected officials for tougher sentencing laws.  I don't even know why we bother to prosecute them. I guess so the next time Josh gets caught perping on a child or downloading CP, he can get 10 years.

[GeeGolly]

33 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

No worries. We just got off track because that statement you originally responded to was somebody stating that this judge routinely gives six to seven years for first offenders.......

And none of the responses to it clarified that, instead, what people were really discussing were the guidelines themselves, not this judge's actions within the guidelines.

You were perfectly clear that you were just giving your opinion! .....But because of the way the conversation had developed, what wasn't clear was exactly what the opinion was about! 

Easy to get confused with these things we talk about here.....There are a lot of complications! 

I wasn't confused, I was responding to your explanation of how sentencing guidelines work. 

[farmgal4]

On 11/21/2021 at 7:45 PM, Rootbeer said:

I think you might be in the wrong forum.

I think she would fit in perfectly here though. 😄

[SusanM]

I know in an ideal world people like Smuggar would get thrown into prison and the key would be thrown away but I do think even a sentence of 5-8 years is not exactly a slap on the wrist.  (ok compared to life, sure, but...) 5 years in prison sounds like a long time to me - so does 5 months for that matter!  And no matter how long or short his sentence he will forever after be a convicted criminal.  I like the sound of that.

Edited November 23, 2021 by SusannahM

[hathorlive]

32 minutes ago, SusannahM said:

I know in an ideal world people like Smuggar would get thrown into prison and the key would be thrown away but I do think even a sentence of 5-8 years is not exactly a slap on the wrist.  (ok compared to life, sure, but...) 5 years in prison sounds like a long time to me - so does 5 months for that matter!  And no matter how long or short his sentence he will forever after be a convicted criminal.  I like the sound of that.

I tell myself that in most of the cases I testify in.  But with Smuggar, I honestly believe he is a pedophile.  I wouldn't have said that until the facts about the content of the porn he was watching came out. I could buy he was "curious" about his sister, as much as I hated it.  But now that you look at the facts and lay them out, he's a predator who is going to hurt someone. And that we live in an age where "fake news" rules, I'm sure that once he's released from prison, the fundy world will ask him to babysit to prove their cognitive dissonance. 

I will content myself with the notion that he'll be a registered sex offender for life, bringing all the frustrations of where he can live and work.

Edited November 23, 2021 by hathorlive
Words are difficult

[Zella]

I've personally always believed that Josh was a predator, ever since the molestations were made public. I never could get over how his attacks on his sisters decreased in age while also increasing in brazenness and level of assault.

Edited November 23, 2021 by Zella

[GeeGolly]

Just now, Zella said:

I've personally always believed that Josh was a predator, ever since the molestations were made public. I never could get over how his attacks on his sisters decreased in age while also increasing in brazenness and level of assault.

I was very late to this. It wasn't until this arrest that I felt he was a true predator with pathological issues. Prior to that I thought he was a fucked up kid, who became an asshole of a husband.  Which of course are still true, but he's much, much worse than that.

[dariafan]

If he does go away 🤞🤞🤞🤞 you know they gonna try to spin it as it’s gods will so Josh can bring other prisoners to the lord 

[Zella]

Just now, GeeGolly said:

I was very late to this. It wasn't until this arrest that I felt he was a true predator with pathological issues. Prior to that I thought he was a fucked up kid, who became an asshole of a husband.  Which of course are still true, but he's much, much worse than that.

I had been willing to see it as "when your parents are this weird and fucked up about sex, you're going to be weird and fucked up too," but reading the actual police report was when I realized that what he did went waaaaay beyond that. 

[GeeGolly]

2 minutes ago, Zella said:

I had been willing to see it as "when your parents are this weird and fucked up about sex, you're going to be weird and fucked up too," but reading the actual police report was when I realized that what he did went waaaaay beyond that. 

And you were spot on!

[dariafan]

For a group that spouts modesty , they sure are a bunch of look at me look at mes