Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[SomePity1066]

Hello!  I'm the other person in North America who's never had - and never will have - a Facebook account. I guess we're a club now. Let's get jackets made! :>)

[snip] I'll bet Josh is shitting his pants wondering how many people have gone through his account with a fine tooth comb looking for more evidence...

 

That's the problem with social media - once it's out there, it's out there. Forever.

Edited May 27, 2015 by Rhondinella
OT and verboten subject

[mbutterfly]

Admittedly, I was fascinated but not shocked. My maternal grandparents back in Brooklyn had 21 children (irish catholic..no tv etc lol) So for me...I was intrigued to see how a family in this day and age would handle it.  Times are very different...times were very different back then..and it was not unheard of. My dear sweet mom is now 85 with Alzheimers.....she cannot remember what she had for lunch but her stories of growing up are amazing....

 

Maybe it was not right back then either..but I do think that back in the "old days"..it was just different.

 

Now? I have 121 FIRST cousins and have 175 cousins up to third cousins lol....

 

On my fathers side...he was one of 15...most of whom are still in Ireland....55 cousins there and 112 in total...needless to say...I am family'ed up! lol

I was an only child and I loved the book and the movie Cheaper by the Dozen (the original that focused upon how the Gilbreth's used their engineering knowledge of efficiency to provide a happy lifestyle. I thought 19 Kids would be something like that. Then I got fascinated by the weirdness. By the way did you know that in time-motion studies in industry a single action in the process is called a "therblig" in honor of the Gilbreths. Jim Bob and Michelle are not the Doctors Gilbreth and Josh is not Frank Gilbreth, Jr. 

[dillpickles]

This should be the official saying of the Snarkers:

Veni, Vedi, Vici: veni (I came), vidi (I saw), vici (I conquered).. I should be (we instead of I) as in the World Wide Snarkers Association, I'm sure Julius Caeser wouldn't mind.

Brain you're on fire with this snark.

[Abstract]

I was an only child and I loved the book and the movie Cheaper by the Dozen (the original that focused upon how the Gilbreth's used their engineering knowledge of efficiency to provide a happy lifestyle. I thought 19 Kids would be something like that. Then I got fascinated by the weirdness. By the way did you know that in time-motion studies in industry a single action in the process is called a "therblig" in honor of the Gilbreths. Jim Bob and Michelle are not the Doctors Gilbreth and Josh is not Frank Gilbreth, Jr.

But if you re-read the book with the Duggars in mind, it becomes apparent (to me, anyway) that JB thinks of himself as Frank Gilbreth. I think a lot of his obnoxious corny behavior is his own ignorant take on Gilbreth's more outrageous behavior as portrayed in the book.

[doodlebug]

 

 

 

Can someone explain the Oprah thing to me? So, she did interview them, filmed the show, but cancelled it?

I sincerely hope CPS, despite the fake story, is investigating this. How can they not?

 

 

I don't think we know if anything was filmed, but, as I recall, the family went to Chicago for a pre-interview and evaluation.  I don't believe Oprah or the Duggars have ever spoken about what happened or why the show wasn't taped and broadcast.  Rumor had it that Jim Bob insisted on complete control of the interview including what questions could be asked and the option to edit out anything he didn't like.  No way Oprah would've agreed to that.  It was also rumored that, in the course of the interview, Jill and Jana's interest in midwifery was discussed and Oprah offered them free tuition to a real midwifery school and they flatly turned it down, making it clear that they weren't permitted to participate in non-fundie schooling.  Oprah who is all about educating women, decided to can the whole thing since she couldn't broadcast and appear to endorse that kind of narrow mindedness.  And, now, of course, it is quite possible that Oprah simply cancelled the interview after getting the letter alleging the abuse.  If the producers approached Jim Bob about it and he acknowledged that the letter had a basis in fact; Harpo would've backed off in a heartbeat.

 

As far as CPS getting involved now, there are no allegations of current abuse.  All this stuff is more than a decade in the past.  All but one of the principals is an adult and the last one will be in a couple months.  CPS is swamped with business; unless there are allegations of recent or current abuse; there is nothing to investigate.  The police report indicates they were involved 10 years ago and probably signed off long ago.  If they were to get involved with the Duggars now, over incidents from more than 12 years ago; the family would rightfully be able to sue for harassment.  Now, if there is something current that someone reports, that's a different story.

[Bella]

But where will we go, what will we do with our time if we don't have the show to snark on and each other to visit?  I have often been kind of down and burst out laughing at a comment made.  And the last few days, I've been wide awake, eyes scratchy, reading away, and making horrible typing mistakes.  I really like the posters here.

 

I don't think this forum is going away any time soon. More revelations will happen, more info will trickle out, etc.

 

I looked at the stats on the mod turf spreadsheet, and this forum has ~42,000 posts (half of which seem to have been made on Friday, but maybe that's just me). For comparison purposes, and sort of randomly, The Amazing Race is considered a typically "busy forum" and has just shy of 8,000 posts, Arrow (our busiest) has just under 70,000, Buffy the Vampire Slayer (off for years) has about 5,000 posts, and Gilmore Girls (long off) has about 10,000. This doesn't prove anything, but I find it interesting, at least, that the Buffy and GG stats show that talk happens regardless of whether episodes air in real time. I think we'll be here for a long time, in other words, especially since these are real people who are going to generate news, unlike Buffy and the Gilmore crew.

 

Anyway, I am awaiting more news related specifically to Josh and the other Duggars, but I think the next wave will involve TLC and the sponsors.

[Zahdii]

Excellent point. I once asked a (fundie) pastor a similar question and got a horrifying response. Basically, he said that women, through Eve, ruined God's plan of a perfect man. So the man is still superior even though he has been made weak in this area because of the sin of Eve,who was tempted by the serpent. Again, it's all viewed through the lens that personhood, by default is male, and that women sort of exist also, but in a secondhand kind of way. 

 

When you're homeschooled, the only kind of diploma you can get is a GED. Your parents might print something out for you, but it doesn't really mean anything.

Actually, page 14 of the police report makes it very clear that one of the daughters went to Jim Bob in March 2002, crying and saying she had witnessed abuse. According to the report, this was how Jim Bob first became aware of it, and the letter of unknown origin (probably a church elder) was written later, after Josh confessed and Jim Bob told the elders about it. Not to criticize, because you moderators do a great job, but this is a rather important point and the OP was right that it was one of the daughters who blew the whistle.

Taking this to the "Gimme That Old Time Religion" thread, because I think it's a better fit there.  And it might be offensive to some people, so people who go there would probably be better prepared to deal with it.

[HumblePi]

Poster with the Duggars

It had already dropped the Duggars' hit show, 19 Kids and Counting, from its schedule after it emerged that the family's eldest son, Josh, had molested several young girls as a teenager.

Now, TLC has pulled Jim Bob Duggar, his wife Michelle and their 19 children from its highly-anticipated Summer Block Party, which is taking place in Philadelphia at noon on Saturday.

The family had originally been slated to appear at the event, which features a number of network stars and is open and free to the public - and had even appeared on the party's official poster.

But they have since been dropped from the party, while Little People Big World's Roloff family has replaced Jim Bob and Michelle on the poster,

Poster magically replaced with the Roloffs

I have a vision of Michelle calling over the loudspeaker/intercom thing for all the children to come to the living room for a family meeting. As they're all sitting quietly, looking at her somber face, with eyes wide, speaking in a slow, hushed Michelle-speak. "Now children, we will not be going to the big block party in Philadelphia this weekend. Instead, we will be praying as a family, giving side hugs and making tater-tot casserole together. This is what God wants us to do, so we should all pray on that. Now, everyone haul your own suitcases up the stairs so that the girls can unpack them."

Edited May 27, 2015 by HumblePi

[Katydid]

People's first Duggar offering of the day (you know there will be several more) is a non-story where a "source" claims the Duggars aren't worried about the future of the show, but instead are "focusing on their faith." Of course they are, right? It's not like they'd come out and say they are busy frantically rearranging the deck chairs on their Titanic.

http://www.people.com/article/19-kids-counting-cancelation-jim-bob-michelle-duggar-josh-duggar-molestation-reports

ETA: You know you're in trouble when you get dropped from an event/poster that features even Kate Gosselin. And does this mean they are gonig to revive the Roloff show? (maybe they were always going to- I think Zach is supposed to get married this summer).

Edited May 27, 2015 by Katydid

[CofCinci]

The Roloffs? Guess Matt hasn't DUI'd in a while and is in TLC's good graces again.

[HumblePi]

People's first Duggar offering of the day (you know there will be several more) is a non-story where a "source" claims the Duggars aren't worried about the future of the show, but instead are "focusing on their faith." Of course they are, right? It's not like they'd come out and say they are busy frantically rearranging the deck chairs on their Titanic.

http://www.people.com/article/19-kids-counting-cancelation-jim-bob-michelle-duggar-josh-duggar-molestation-reports

ETA: You know you're in trouble when you get dropped from an event/poster that features even Kate Gosselin. And does this mean they are gonig to revive the Roloff show? (maybe they were always going to- I think Zach is supposed to get married this summer).

Even on TLC, if you let your freak-flag-fly just a little too high, they'll chop you right off the schedule. (Cue the Roloffs)

Edited May 27, 2015 by HumblePi

[JoanArc]

Ah...probably their last PEOPLE cover ever.

[Julia]

I don't really understand why they would be going anyway. Kate is one of america's most prominent users of in vitro and divorced, and Randy is pretty openly not a heterosexual person. Aren't they countenancing both those things and giving them their approval as family-friendly by appearing?

[ChicksDigScars]

Ugh. The Roloff's have been "so over" for awhile now. Matt and Amy haven't tolerated each other's presence in YEARS. TLC must have been pretty desperate (and Jen Arnold couldn't get off work).

 

 

 

I was an only child and I loved the book and the movie Cheaper by the Dozen (the original that focused upon how the Gilbreth's used their engineering knowledge of efficiency to provide a happy lifestyle.

 

What is it with us only children and large family curiosity? Wanting what we never had? When I was a kid, I loved a book called I Should Have Seen it Coming When the Rabbit Died. The author, Teresa Bloomingdale, was a devoted Catholic who "practiced" rhythm method birth control (but never actually perfected it) and ended up with 12 kids.  It was written in an Erma Bombeck style, with humor.  I think that I still have the paperback in a box somewhere. 

 

 

 

Ah...probably their last PEOPLE cover ever.

 

Maybe not. If one of the girls breaks free and decides to spill, THAT will be on the cover, for sure. Oh, to dream. 

Edited May 27, 2015 by ChicksDigScars

[partofme]

I hope this show is cancelled, and while I feel sorry for the victims, I don't feel the least bit sorry about this family losing income from the show, there are lots of Americans struggling to make ends meet who don't get money from a tv show.

[NextIteration]

About large families, my family was an oddity in our neighborhood FULL of Catholics, just 2 1/2 of us.  (Me, my younger sister and my older half sister, which my father won custody of SHOCK! and my parents were excommunicated because of my Father's divorce with lack of annulment.)  I can remember six families with over eight children in them and sadly every single one of them had a "caboose child" with severe developmental and/or physical impairments, but, we all played and took care of one another to some extent so it was great!

 

@ChicksDigScars - that book sounds like a hoot, I think I'll check it out.

[CherryAmes]

Like others one reason I was drawn to this show initially was having read one too many books about big happy families, but particularly for me it was the movie Yours, Mine and Ours (the original movie with Lucille Ball).  I loved that movie as a kid and thought being part of a big family would be amazing.  It didn't take many minutes ito 19 Kids though to make me realize there is a huge difference between a big happy movie family (even if it was based on a real life family) and a real life fundie family! 

[parisprincess]

But by taking away the show, we are now taking away Jessa's, Jill's moment to shine, spread their wings after all those years dreaming of this moment to be free.

 

The Duggar girls do not need this show to be free.  In my opinion, they can shine, spread their wings and be free much easier without cameras following them around now that their abuse has come out.  Having people watch their every move, speculating on what they're thinking and how they're feeling, can't be a good thing for them.  I just hope their parents do some soul searching and make it easier for the whole family to move on from this tragedy, far away from the public eye. 

 

As for JimBob and Michelle, after all their bible quoting, its clear they didn't pay much attention to this quote: Judge not, lest ye be judged, because, as they're finding out now, Karma is a bitch!

Edited May 27, 2015 by parisprincess

[Patrizio]

While I do feel sorry for the daughters, I could never support a show featuring them unless it was about their struggle to separate from this cult. II never watched the show, it was not until they became regular cover stories on People magazine that they came onto my radar. I thought to myself, why are these people being honored in such a way? Why are their weddings/births being celebrated? What have they accomplished? I don't know how I would handle the situation that faced this family years ago when the abuse first happened. I can tell you that a skeleton in the closet of this magnitude would have precluded me from participating in a reality program showcasing family values. Perhaps if the family had kept a lower profile and  not been critical of others, the show would have continued unabated.

[ChicksDigScars]

The original, 1968 version of Yours, Mine and Our's is SO MUCH better than the re-make. I have the DVD!  (another only child obsession)  Even though Lucille Ball, especially, seemed too old for the part. Michelle Duggar should WORSHIP that movie. Lucy was 57 and playing a pregnant woman! There's HOPE, you bat shit crazy lunatic!

 

@NextIteration, the book is a little dated now, but still cute. I think most of Bloomingdale's kids were born in the late 50's through the 60's. 

 

TOPIC: Dare to dream that this situation will cure Anna of her "baby fever" and realize that 2 boys and 2 girls is a nice number. Please, for the love of all that's holy, stop breeding with him. 

[Julia]

I thought to myself, why are these people being honored in such a way? Why are their weddings/births being celebrated? What have they accomplished?

They have a following in a community which 1) tends to avoid secular media, and 2) buys a lot of soap and toothpaste.

[Kcat1971]

When you're homeschooled, the only kind of diploma you can get is a GED. Your parents might print something out for you, but it doesn't really mean anything.

 

 

I'm sorry that is just NOT true.  But the response belongs in the Education Thread so I'll take it there.

[CofCinci]

Ah...probably their last PEOPLE cover ever.

No. I'm holding out for a "[Duggar daughter] BREAKS HER SILENCE" exclusive in the next few months. The Chrisian crisis PR firm the Duggars have hired are probably fleshing out the details now, especially since the family has an established relationship (deal?) with PEOPLE.

[charmed1]

Rumor had it that Jim Bob insisted on complete control of the interview including what questions could be asked and the option to edit out anything he didn't like.

Ha!! I can picture every Harpo producer laughing in his face. And I can see Oprah sitting in hair and make up, being notified of this fool's demands and letting out the biggest laugh ever. Like "do you know who I am, Cletus?"

[AnJen]

 

 

I have to get this off my chest. I am not sure who will agree with me, but I'm going to say it anyway (and maybe blog about it because this is the 21st century and I CAN). Firstly, the whole thing is reprehensible, but what I am really upset by is the number of uber liberals who are pretty much happy this is happening. And this is coming from me, who is an uber liberal.

Some of my friends are offended by their religion in general, so they are pretty much excited that they are getting the boot and posting gleefully about how they get what they deserve and how they don't understand how I ever watched the show (as a woman, they asked, how could I watch a family that devalues women?) and that they are sooo happy that these "bigots" get their comeuppance. I get that people are upset about their rallying against gay rights, but they are an incredibly right-wing Christian family. Did they think they were going to somehow suddenly support gay rights? People have also been "offended" all over my newsfeed about some of the dumb things Jessa has said (i.e. athiests don't exist, etc.)...but WHAT DO THEY THINK she is going to say?!

I feel most sorry for the girls, because they cannot hide their name redactions. The rest of the kids also have had the rug pulled out from under them as the gravy trian has suddenly (or most probably) stopped...and I can't imagine the guilt the girls must feel (hopefully they don't, but growing up in that environment, it is up in the air). They've lost a lot in a matter of days and been publicly outed as victims when they may not have wanted to be. And people are celebrating this because they are right wing Christians and they've always "found them creepy"?!  One of my friends wrote, "I feel positively gleeful that this family and their nasty patriarchal religion are being shown the door" and "I'm starting to wonder if you really understand how vile and hurtful their beliefs are, or if you still think they're just a cute, wacky tv family."

 

I'm not sure what blogs or forums you follow, but I'm a regular reader over at Gawker/Jezebel, and the general consensus in the comments is the same as this forum; people feel for the girls, are pissed as hell at JimBob, Michelle, and Josh, and are worried about the littles. The main thing people are expressing gladness over is that the underside of this family's belief is being exposed, and I would agree with that. 

 

For them to have been on tv for nearly ten years now, on the cover of People magazine, etc. and to be held up as this shining example of a perfect family when they believe that women are inherently sinful (the Eve thing) and should be subordinate to men, and believe that men can't control their own urges, that rape is a woman's fault, that daughters and wives should be subservient, that everyone who doesn't follow their beliefs is not only evil but lesser...of course people are happy to see that exposed! 

 

It's hard to know all of the things about the Duggars that we here on the boards have pretty much always known - about the blanket training, the women-shaming, the Gothard/ATI stuff, the weird sexual rules (no dancing, only side hugs even with family members, etc)...it's hard to know all of the things that goes on with these people that the show doesn't address and to see how problematic it is and to have the media and people who watch the show be so admiring of this family. So yeah, I completely understand why people are happy or relieved to see them and their beliefs being exposed.

 

I don't see how it's offensive that people are calling the Duggars bigots, either...they are bigots. They refuse to associate with anyone who isn't like them. They think gays are evil, they accuse transgender women of being child molesters, they think women who get pregnant outside of marriage are sluts and should be demonized as such, they're against abortion and yet also against any type of program that would aid mothers to keep a baby. They are incredibly intolerant of those with other lifestyles or opinions to their own. That's the very definition of a bigot. Have the kids been raised to be this way? Yes. But they've also had a lot more life experience out in the "real world" than other fundamentalist families, and the kids still all parrot what they've been taught. I would argue that the majority of them probably believe it, not just repeat it. 

 

It's not impossible to feel happy that they're being exposed for exactly who they are, and not how they've portrayed themselves for years; that doesn't mean being unsympathetic to what the girls have gone and are still going through. Those aren't mutually exclusive feelings. 

[BitterApple]

Ironically the Duggar daughters may want the show to continue. They've gotten used to the good life: international travel, remodeled homes, Uggs and MacBooks, Jessa especially. Bin only has an Associates and it's not even in a particular skill-set or trade. Where I'm from that's only a slight step up above a HS diploma. Now that there's no more paid appearances and People spreads they're in for a major lifestyle adjustment. For all we know, the girls truly have forgiven and want to forget. If the daughters are fully on board with continuing the show I don't have a problem with it.

I don't condone the actions of Josh, Boob or Michelle by any means, but I feel like the media coverage has crossed into witch-hunt territory and it's starting to make me root for the Duggars.

Edited May 27, 2015 by BitterApple

[OhioMom]

I can't keep up!  I just read through 25 pages of posts.  Never skip around on this forum -- it leads to mass confusion. Which brings me to my second point: I'm not as idiotic as some of my previous posts may have made me seem. :)

[CherryAmes]

I don't condone the actions of Josh, Boob or Michelle by any means, but I feel like the media coverage has crossed into witch-hunt territory and it's starting to make me root for the Duggars.

 

I'm not seeing that. I think the TV news has been pretty restrained IMO and even the print coverage has been pretty fair in that they seem to bend over backwards to make sure that the Duggar supporters are getting a voice.  The story is getting attention no question but the mainstream media, at least, has bigger fish to fry than the Duggars.  Which in itself may be a bit of a blow to Jim Bob and Michelle :).

[Boton]

Well, even though I think it would bore me to tears, I'd watch the heck out of an "Anna and the girls" oriented show, predicated on Anna leaving Josh and moving somewhere with her sisters-in-law or something similar.  One of the many, many things that bothers me about this situation is that Anna appears to think that it's some kind of triumph to stay with your husband, no matter what he does.  

 

Staying with your husband in spite of the fact that he's picked up 40 pounds or developed a receding hairline and a bad case of ED is a triumph of valuing a long-standing marriage. Staying with your husband in spite of the fact that he's a child molester and you have four kids is a triumph of stupidity and lack of pattern recognition ability.

[Skyline]

Update from InTouch Weekly

www.intouchweekly.com/posts/duggar-molestation-case-another-bombshell-revealed-josh-sued-the-arkansas-department-of-human-services-59201

Edited May 27, 2015 by Skyline

[CofCinci]

Ironically the Duggar daughters may want the show to continue. They've gotten used to the good life: international travel, remodeled homes, Uggs and MacBooks, Jessa especially. Bin only has an Associates and it's not even in a particular skill-set or trade. Where I'm from that's only a slight step up above a HS diploma. Now that there's no more paid appearances and People spreads they're in for a major lifestyle adjustment.

Major lifestyle adjustment for the younger batch of children especially. Miracle Josie has American Girl DollS. $100 dolls. More than one. Poor kid isn't going to get the 2016 Girl of the Year now. Mission trips are most likely the first to go.

[MMLEsq]

I don't think this forum is going away any time soon. More revelations will happen, more info will trickle out, etc.

 

[stats about specific threads....]

 

Anyway, I am awaiting more news related specifically to Josh and the other Duggars, but I think the next wave will involve TLC and the sponsors.

And the next wave after that could be when Anna gives birth.  I wouldn't be surprised if, when it happens, the news is released via one of the sister's SM accounts.

 

Ironically the Duggar daughters may want the show to continue. They've gotten used to the good life: international travel, remodeled homes, Uggs and MacBooks, Jessa especially. Bin only has an Associates and it's not even in a particular skill-set or trade. Where I'm from that's only a slight step up above a HS diploma. Now that there's no more paid appearances and People spreads they're in for a major lifestyle adjustment. For all we know, the girls truly have forgiven and want to forget. If the daughters are fully on board with continuing the show I don't have a problem with it.

I don't condone the actions of Josh, Boob or Michelle by any means, but I feel like the media coverage has crossed into witch-hunt territory and it's starting to make me root for the Duggars.

I could see a "Brady Brides"-type show developing.  Focusing on the older girls and possibly, to some extent, in the case of Jana, Jinger and JoyAnna, them doing things out and about with their buddy groups, so that some of the younger siblings can be featured.

[Oldernowiser]

And the next wave after that could be when Anna gives birth.  I wouldn't be surprised if, when it happens, the news is released via one of the sister's SM accounts.

 

I could see a "Brady Brides"-type show developing.  Focusing on the older girls and possibly, to some extent, in the case of Jana, Jinger and JoyAnna, them doing things out and about with their buddy groups, so that some of the younger siblings can be featured.

How do they possibly do spin-offs with any of the minor children without continuing to enrich their parents? For that matter, given the extent of the mind control, even a spin-off with the adult children is going straight into Jim Bob's coffers. I just don't see any of them as independent enough to stand up for themselves.

The Duggars need to go away. If they're half as frugal as they've boasted about, they should have more than enough put away for all of them to live quite nicely.

But celebrity is a drug...abrupt withdrawal can be ugly.

[Aja]

Moreso than seeing any of the girls participating in another reality show, I'd love it if at least one of them had some critical thinking suddenly kick in and take over. They've been around the TLC crew and 'heathens' for a good long while now--I bet at least one of them might be questioning, at least somewhere in her mind. "Gee, they seem nice to me and they don't molest kids, maybe the heathen path is better." Not that you either have to be a drooling Gothard zombie or a Satanist, of course. But they can learn all about that, too. I just want to scream at Jana to run. Enough is enough! You don't need a damn husband to escort you out the door, Jana can escort Jana out the door...AND WHEREVER SHE WANTS TO GO AFTER THAT. She's so traumatized and she probably worries that her little siblings won't be taken care of as well without her there. It's hard to grow up brainwashed and overcome it, I know this, I know it's like a death of the person you were. But oh, the other side is glorious. I wish with all my heart they'll know that one day.

Edited May 27, 2015 by Aja

[MMLEsq]

How do they possibly do spin-offs with any of the minor children without continuing to enrich their parents? For that matter, given the extent of the mind control, even a spin-off with the adult children is going straight into Jim Bob's coffers. I just don't see any of them as independent enough to stand up for themselves.

The Duggars need to go away. If they're half as frugal as they've boasted about, they should have more than enough put away for all of them to live quite nicely.

But celebrity is a drug...abrupt withdrawal can be ugly.

I'm more concerned that the older girls have a chance to move forward and rebuild their lives than I am that the parents might inadvertently be enriched.  William Blackstone, who wrote a series of commentaries on the laws in England in the 18th century, wrote:  “Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer."  That thought continues to this day, which is why defendants get the benefit of hearsay and other evidence rules and sometimes are found not guilty even if public opinion is that they're 100% guilty.  In this case, I'd rather see two (JimBob and Michelle) "guilty" people escape, than have the remaining 18 kids suffer.  JMHO.

[Oldernowiser]

I see your point, but as long as the parents are still in charge, is there any realistic chance that the older girls will rebuild their lives? Even if somehow the parents are banned from the set of a spin-off, I don't see them butting out gracefully. If anything, their scrutiny and control might become more intense, not less. They're not above being jealous of their children, especially Michelle.

[JoanArc]

I'd like someone to ask Jim Bob how his kids can work for 10 years, their entire lives for some of them, and not have so much as a penny set aside*. I think we'd all feel better knowing each child and adult has thousands of dollars tucked away for a rainy day they have sole control over.

 

Advertisers are dropping left and right, and will be the death of 19kac. I don't think they'd want their names associated with a sequel show. The name Duggar is just too radioactive.

 

*We don't know this for sure, but play the odds.

[Maizie131]

I'd like to know everyone's thoughts on why the hell it's taking TLC so long to cancel this show. 

[NextIteration]

Update from InTouch Weekly

www.intouchweekly.com/posts/duggar-molestation-case-another-bombshell-revealed-josh-sued-the-arkansas-department-of-human-services-59201

 

Sure takes the media a hell of a long time to catch up with this group and FreeJinger!

 

@Maizie131:

 

 

I'd like to know everyone's thoughts on why the hell it's taking TLC so long to cancel this show.

 

Waiting for a Hail Mary... heh.  (Hoping and praying that the money train continues, somehow, some way.)

Edited May 27, 2015 by NextIteration

[BitterApple]

There's always a knee jerk reaction on behalf of advertisers to drop sponsorship when a scandal breaks out, but they may come back once the dust settles. If the Duggars are cancelled on TLC it doesn't mean they won't get picked up by another network. Maybe I'm too cynical but I just don't think there will be long term outrage over this. In a few months the Palace will release new photos of Princess Charlotte or Kylie Jenner will announce she's knocked up and the Duggars will be yesterday's news.

[JoanArc]

I don't think any network in their right mind would pick up 19 kids.

 

 

the Duggars will be yesterday's news.

Of course. That's what would've happened all along, but this scandal is accelerating it. They were always doomed to going back to normal life. In 10 years no one will know who they are, except maybe as a punchline.

[charmed1]

The Duggar girls do not need this show to be free. In my opinion, they can shine, spread their wings and be free much easier without cameras following them around now that their abuse has come out.

I agree wholeheartedly and said as much in the other thread regarding all the children.

[Janet Snakehole]

I am also really doubtful that the show will be cancelled.I want it to, don't get me wrong, but I think the Duggars still have a lot of support out there. I think TLC is laying low on this and waiting it out. I don't think Josh will be back but I think the show will eventually be back in some form.

Edited May 27, 2015 by Janet Snakehole

[Literata]

Ironically the Duggar daughters may want the show to continue. They've gotten used to the good life: international travel, remodeled homes, Uggs and MacBooks, Jessa especially. Bin only has an Associates and it's not even in a particular skill-set or trade. Where I'm from that's only a slight step up above a HS diploma. Now that there's no more paid appearances and People spreads they're in for a major lifestyle adjustment. For all we know, the girls truly have forgiven and want to forget. If the daughters are fully on board with continuing the show I don't have a problem with it.

I don't condone the actions of Josh, Boob or Michelle by any means, but I feel like the media coverage has crossed into witch-hunt territory and it's starting to make me root for the Duggars.

I don't agree, but I would imagine the Duggars have felt this way all along -- that they're being unfairly targeted, probably because of their faith. I would guess that's what they're conveying to the younger kids as well, and comparing Josh to Job in the bible. Oh, to be a fly on the TTH wall.

[NextIteration]

Maybe the FIFA scandal will knock it off the top ten list of scandals.

 

I don't think so though, I don't think there is any coming back.  Along with deep sympathy for the victims, there is too much political avarice and now shock about just how awful the connected organizations are (Gothard, ITA, Vision Forum Quiverfull).  The movement of the nation is against them when it comes to LGBTQ issues and at some point, (should have happened, don't understand why it hasn't yet) there is going to be a huge backlash movement against the limiting legislation around female reproductive rights.

[b2H]

The girls would never be able to break free. They have no idea as to how to do the critical thinking that real life outside the bubble would require. They would probably need full de-programming to even start.

[AmandaPanda]

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter how much real-world support the Duggars have. If TLC can't sell ad space during the show, they can't afford to continue it. As long as sponsors keep dropping like flies, it's the end. TLC is definitely analyzing all their ad numbers and seeing if they can afford to continue the show. It's their number one show, so they're certainly not going to make this decision lightly. 

[Churchhoney]

Moreso than seeing any of the girls participating in another reality show, I'd love it if at least one of them had some critical thinking suddenly kick in and take over. They've been around the TLC crew and 'heathens' for a good long while now--I bet at least one of them might be questioning, at least somewhere in her mind. "Gee, they seem nice to me and they don't molest kids, maybe the heathen path is better." Not that you either have to be a drooling Gothard zombie or a Satanist, of course. But they can learn all about that, too. I just want to scream at Jana to run. Enough is enough! You don't need a damn husband to escort you out the door, Jana can escort Jana out the door...AND WHEREVER SHE WANTS TO GO AFTER THAT. She's so traumatized and she probably worries that her little siblings won't be taken care of as well without her there. It's hard to grow up brainwashed and overcome it, I know this, I know it's like a death of the person you were. But oh, the other side is glorious. I wish with all my heart they'll know that one day.

I think the barrier is not just that they're brainwashed but that it was brainwashing from birth. When you brainwash a baby, you completely shape the way the kid's very brain forms, from the bottom up. All these kids' neural circuits have been formed in their entirety by Duggardom, and I've seen in my own family that that seems much much much harder to overcome than brainwashing that takes place when somebody's older.

 

Some people do escape, even with the bottom-up brainwiring, of course. But so much of the warping took place when the kids were pre-speech and had absolutely no contrary influences or ability on their own to question it, that they're really hard wired, I think. So while it can happen, I wouldn't ever want to underestimate the difficulty.

 

In The Once and Future King -- I think when writing about Lancelot, the Ill-Made Knight -- T.H. White wrote that "It is so fatally easy to make a small child believe that he is horrible." It's really really easy to shape a baby's whole worldview, including her assessment of herself.  And these kids are still in this environment. So anybody who even tries to think a little differently is going to need tremendous strength.

Edited May 27, 2015 by Churchhoney

[HalcyonDays]

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter how much real-world support the Duggars have. If TLC can't sell ad space during the show, they can't afford to continue it. As long as sponsors keep dropping like flies, it's the end. TLC is definitely analyzing all their ad numbers and seeing if they can afford to continue the show. It's their number one show, so they're certainly not going to make this decision lightly.

 

Apparently the show is TLC's biggest ratings draw, which is way they are hesitant to cancel it. The loss of enough advertisers is going to be the nail in the coffin for the show, but some of the companies are "waiting and seeing", i.e. waiting for the smoke to clear.

 

TLC upper brass apparently knew about this years ago - during the Oprah scheduled appearance - but cash trumps ethics as usual (in all business).

 

And as with all trainwrecks, scandals like this tend to bump up ratings and interest. Go figure.

[Shibori]

I have a few issues with that latest In Touch story.  Appealing a government agency's decision is not the same thing as a lawsuit, and a hearing is not the same as a trial.  It sounds like Arkansas CPS found there was abuse, and Josh appealed that finding in a hearing (most likely before an administrative law judge).  Arkansas has a Child Maltreatment Central Registry and applicants for certain jobs (like teaching) require a check against that registry before hiring.  Unfortunately, it sounds from this fact sheet, that it's pretty easy to get removed from the registry after a relatively short time has passed.  Saying that Josh sued CPS is misleading, as it implies that he filed an action against them, which does not appear to be accurate, nor is it correct to say he had a "trial", at least in the legal sense of the word, if it was an appeal hearing.