Jessa, Ben and Their Brood: Making a (Diaper) Mountain out of a Mold House

[trimthatfat]

Nothing about Jinger's discussion with Ben felt genuine. It felt like Ben was auditioning for something, like a televangelist special. Lame.

[Wellfleet]

Interestingly, the year she was 14 was pretty much the entire calendar year of 2008, the first year they shot the series. So no big bucks YET; they were at the very beginning of taping and wouldn't know whether they would be successful or not. I DO wonder if the cameras on her more of the time than the old specials had some sort of effect on her that cause her Come to Jesus moment? I can only imagine the peer pressure; having an older sister like perfect, pious Jill-the-Snitch couldn't have been fun. I bet Jinger felt a lot of guilt from her (and others) growing up. 

 

@Darknight, yes. Original Sin. They're pretty much doomed from birth until they're saved. That's a prime tenet of Calvinism, which is the theology Ben was raised in, and seems to be bringing to the young Seewalds' study. Free will? Fuggeddaboutit. Everything Ben's put out there points to him being even more militant than his very militant father. He's the type I'd tell to fuck off if he tried to evangelicize me on the street (because I look so broken or whatever it was that Jinger said...like she really knows what's in people's minds or hearts!). I really hate those "I'm right/you're wrong, I'm better than you" types. Benessa reek of that entitled attitude, and Jinger's interview doesn't give me much hope for her, either. 

 

This is my primary problem with many fundementalists. Or at least the ones who feel they must preach to everyone they meet. I've never met people who're SO sure they're right about everything. And SO sure everyone else is "wrong" Where DOES all this stalwart self-assurance come from? Did Jesus really say at some point "Get on out there and convince the non-believers?" I'm currently a non-practicing Catholic but spent years in Catholic schools and/or religious ed. And I don't remember hearing anything about this - it sounds like something else that mortal men have just interpreted on their own and chosen to attribute to Jesus - in hopes of getting others on board with it. I always thought Jesus was basically live-and-let-live... 

[Betweenyouandme]

This is my primary problem with many fundementalists. Or at least the ones who feel they must preach to everyone they meet. I've never met people who're SO sure they're right about everything. And SO sure everyone else is "wrong" Where DOES all this stalwart self-assurance come from? Did Jesus really say at some point "Get on out there and convince the non-believers?" I'm currently a non-practicing Catholic but spent years in Catholic schools and/or religious ed. And I don't remember hearing anything about this - it sounds like something else that mortal men have just interpreted on their own and chosen to attribute to Jesus - in hopes of getting others on board with it. I always thought Jesus was basically live-and-let-live...

Matthew 28:19King James Version (KJV)

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost

Mark 16:15

And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature

Some churches teach that this means to build a church and people will come. Some teach mission work. Some teach door to door.

[graefin]

I've enjoyed reading all the posts about the video. Jinger reminded me of Priscilla Waller when she was talking. Her only sin is that horrendous eye makeup. (Sorry, that's all I could dwell on while watching.) Mr. Articulate could barely get the words out explaining the tracts. He better add public speaking courses to his studies if he wants to become a minister.

I had the same response to Jinger speaking. It was uncanny how much she sounded like Priscilla. In the show, she really isn't shown speaking that much, but she and Jill are particularly inarticulate, it seems. Relative to her, Ben wasn't that bad, I thought.

[JoanArc]

They filmed before '08 though. It warms my heart that little bound-for-hell Jinger was just faking it to fit in. How old are they in the brainwashing camps? Maybe she came-to-Jesus to avoid being locked-in-a-closet at one.

 

Here story reminded me of Anna's fake beliefs too. http://www.thehollywoodgossip.com/2014/11/anna-duggar-confesses-to-just-acting-like-a-christian-struggling/ I think almost all the Duggars don't really believe their crap, its just they have no alternative.

[lottiedottie]

They seem more comfortable together than Jill and Derrick do. Maybe they are just better in front of the cameras.

They dated, I mean courted longer, right? So it would make sense that Jessa and Ben seem more comfortable together--they've had more time get to know each other!

[floridamom]

I am growing SO tired of Ben's posts...he is a one record juke box.....we are all going to hell, so repent and NOW, and the flip side; Jessa is so beauuuutifulll.

(Anna's posted crap too), She's all about two things, their religious beliefs, and babies. They really need to take up some other healthy interests and maybe post about those things...Can't stand it.

[gunderda]

I am growing SO tired of Ben's posts...he is a one record juke box.....we are all going to hell, so repent and NOW, and the flip side; Jessa is so beauuuutifulll.

(Anna's posted crap too), She's all about two things, their religious beliefs, and babies. They really need to take up some other healthy interests and maybe post about those things...Can't stand it.

 

One night I decided to start following Jessa and Jill and then looked at Anna's but couldn't handle her posts.  That night I hate nightmares that the duggar girls were pressuring me with their anti-abortion talk.   It was weird.... lol 

[Gianthambeast]

Just curious here-- why doesn't  Jim Boob like Jessa?

[flyingdi]

Because Jessa, out of all his kids, Is the one who most seems to have a mind of her own. I don't think Jim Bob dislikes her as much as he doesn't know how to handle her.

Edited February 25, 2015 by flyingdi

[Gianthambeast]

Ok, thanks Flyingdi.  I haven't been watching that long so I wasn't sure of the backstory.

[flyingdi]

There may be others who have different opinions on the dislike. Let's hope we hear from them.

[kalamac]

I saw someone in another thread say that they thought Michelle started to have her breakdown right around when Jessa was a baby. Maybe a part of JB blames Jessa for Michelle's declining mental health, and he's been passive-aggressively punishing her for it all this time. Which in turn, could encourage Jessa's minor rebellions, giving him more issues with her.

[Readalot]

Matthew 28:19King James Version (KJV)

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost

Mark 16:15

And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature

Some churches teach that this means to build a church and people will come. Some teach mission work. Some teach door to door.

As far as JW's it is (or was) Matthew 24:14 - The good news of the kingdom must be spread through our the earth; and then the end will come". I was brought up to believe that Armagedon and then Paradise would not happened until every person on earth knew about Jesus and was given the choice to worship him.

[kalamac]

Wait, so the horrors of Armageddon can be kept away, as long as we stop telling people about Jesus? I don't care if it's supposed to be followed by paradise (especially considering the Duggar's version of paradise probably would not be paradise for me, what with my gay, heathen ways), we need to get everyone to stop Ministering in Jesus's name.

[Micks Picks]

Well gee, then Ben should go to Libya, Egypt, Nigeria, Syria, etc and start preaching to them so they stop killing the Christians.  Then everybody will be peaceful.    Every person on earth should know about and have the chance to know Jesus, so get going Ben.  Tracts in the USA won't cut it.  

[Shugardrawers]

I'm lost, yet again.

I don't think it's appropriate to give a tract instead of a tip at a restaurant. But beyond that point...

I'm Christian. I agree with what was said in the video. I'm glad Jessa posted it.

 

There's a fine line between observing your faith and being an asshole.  He just crossed it.

[GEML]

One thing Calvinist (even the sect the Seewalds belong to) insist upon is an educated clergy. If Ben is serious about becoming a minister, he will not only need a college education, but an M.Div. and likely one from a bricks and mortar seminary.

Fun historical fact - one of the reasons there are so many Baptist and Methodist churches throughout the South and fewer Presbyterian and Episcopal is that the first two did not require educated ministers and the latter two did. So the first two moved faster and snapped up congregations and built churches on the new frontiers faster. As each group had break away denominations, those groups tended to stick to either educated or not according to the parent church. Today, it's different, but that standard held for a LONG time.

[frenchtoast]

Folks, there is a topic to talk about religion, and how it compares to what the Duggars practice. You can always post a simple, "Taking to the Religion thread". Thanks!

[floridamom]

If Jim Bob blames Jessa in some way for Michelle's breakdown, I have even less respect for that guy...after all, it was he and Michelle who called Jessa to this life in their own actions....that girl is blameless for that...she can be a diva, but we all are who we are, she may not fit in to the Duggar mold of acceptability. Shame on him if this is true. I sincerely hope NOT.

[Fallacy]

Wow that video made me more than a little nauseous. Than I started reading the comments.  I have zero interest in their version of Christianity. Every word out of Ben's mouth just made me want to punch him in his self-righteous face. Ben is a moron, and he's gross. I will never understand their desire to force the rest of us to follow their religious tenets.

Edited February 25, 2015 by Fallacy

[yogi2014L]

If Jim Bob blames Jessa in some way for Michelle's breakdown, I have even less respect for that guy...after all, it was he and Michelle who called Jessa to this life in their own actions....that girl is blameless for that...she can be a diva, but we all are who we are, she may not fit in to the Duggar mold of acceptability. Shame on him if this is true. I sincerely hope NOT.

I hope Jessa and Ben nope the fuck out of the mold shack, go to wherever Bens family lives and release a tell all.

I think Boob and Michelle are going to really piss her off one day soon and that will be all it takes. 

 

Jessa seems more of a head strong child so she probably was treated differently especially if her birth sent michelle to break down mode. That plus her environment that she was raised probably created life long resentment that will soon boil over. 

Edited February 25, 2015 by yogi2014L

[Darknight]

If Jim Bob blames Jessa in some way for Michelle's breakdown, I have even less respect for that guy...after all, it was he and Michelle who called Jessa to this life in their own actions....that girl is blameless for that...she can be a diva, but we all are who we are, she may not fit in to the Duggar mold of acceptability. Shame on him if this is true. I sincerely hope NOT.

I agree. JimChelle choose to have a bunch of kids and live in poverty. It's their own fault.

[Fuzzysox]

I watched the video and think that what's going on here is that Ben is trying to launch some sort of online ministry. No degree in theology required. The conversation with Jinger seemed to be kind of an amateurish practice run, but I would not be surprised if this becomes a regular deal and pretty soon he's asking for donations. He doesn't want to be stuck cleaning toilets for Boob forever and needs to become more financially independent. Jessa is already promoting it to her fan base. Who knows, they might just be poised to become the Jim and Tammy Faye of the internet.

Bingo I thought the exact same thing. They are somehow going to launch some kind of online ministry via their fanbase on FB.

[floridamom]

In being an outwardly Christian "snob" benseelwald really believes that he is doing the right thing...God wants him and others like him to spread the word..He is still such a kid; I sometimes can't help but stop myself with the negative thoughts that come to mind about him because he is still such a KID. I'd like to check back with him when he is 25 and see what, if anything, he has learned about real life...sometimes I feel sorry for him about all of the negative, insulting remarks that are made about him., like the guy can't help that he has allergies, etc, those types of things one should not be called out for, his demeanor reeks of still being so young and thrust in front of a camera. IMO, he was no more comfortable interviewing Jinger in that awful religious video than he is being interviewed on the show.. He has so much growing up and maturing to do; it's unbelievable that his parents pushed him to marry anyone at this time in his life. Maybe I'm being too charitable here?

[Micks Picks]

Let's not give Jessa a pass here.  Of her own free will she married this guy, knowing full well his beliefs and tendency to spout them on social media.  She does the same thing.  She doesn't mind spouting the same garbage IMO as her husband.

[bigskygirl]

I am speechless, totally speechless    https://www.facebook.com/JessaSeewald/posts/645054182288441:0

[JoanArc]

I am speechless, totally speechless    https://www.facebook.com/JessaSeewald/posts/645054182288441:0

http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/jessa-duggar-christianity-rant-believe-in-hell-your-god-doesnt-exist-2015252

 

I say divorced in 5 years, 3 if there's a kid. She doesn't believe any of this crap. it reads like Bin wrote it.

[Betweenyouandme]

I am speechless, totally speechless https://www.facebook.com/JessaSeewald/posts/645054182288441:0

Speechless over what? I mean this honestly. This is what the Bible says and a lot of people's interpretation of that. Not that you have to believe it, but have you heard it before? I'm just wondering what is shocking. I'm not surprised Jessa posted this at all. I mean, are the words shocking to you or is Jessa posting it shocking?

[JoanArc]

Speechless over what? I mean this honestly. This is what the Bible says and a lot of people's interpretation of that. Not that you have to believe it, but have you heard it before? I'm just wondering what is shocking. I'm not surprised Jessa posted this at all. I mean, are the words shocking to you or is Jessa posting it shocking?

 

Shorter Jessa: Even if your close personal relationship with God tell you something is OK, it really isn't. It just isn't! Because reasons! Be exactly like the cult I was born into or else! Also your God is dead/nonexistant but mine is alive. You're fooling yourself but I couldn't possibly be fooling myself. Reasons! Amen.

 

She's so obviously not into religion at all, except maybe as fire insurance. I think she lets this stuff be posted in her name to keep earning brownie points with Bin and Jim Bob. Maybe she needs to read the parts of the bible that explain God makes himself and his wishes known to everyone, regardless of their beliefs.

[KatWay]

I just love how certain these people are that they and they alone have the truth about God. "If you believe in a loving and forgiving God, then he doesn't exist" I mean WOW. She's doing exactly the same as she accuses others of doing, namely choosing the passages of the bible she prefers to support her personal interpretation. So she wants to judge the hell out of everyone and can find evidence in the bible to support this. Fine. But somehow it's all wrong if someone is all "cast the first stone" and finds evidence to support this, because, well, they're wrong. Jessa said so.

[floridamom]

I can't believe my eyes! What a write up...I highly doubt that Jessa posted any of that stuff...how could she have the time to type that much with all the hair brushing, make up "putting on time" and selfie picture taking? I'm sure Ben typed this in between cleaning toilets and cooking he does.

I think Jessa is describing a more Old Testament God, one that Christians shouldn't follow, but a New Testament God. Didn't Jesus come to "pay for our sins" so we may be redeemed of our sins here on earth? Of course, we should strive to do the right thing, but we aren't perfect in our nature, and God's love and grace forgives us our transgressions if we are truly sorry and accept belief in Father, Son and Holy Spirit (Ghost), and strive to clean up our act...these people are over the top, top, top....

[Sew Sumi]

Some are saying that this is a Duggar return salvo in response to Famy's continued run of stories she has leaked through Radar. Amy posted simply DO NOT JUDGE on her IG yesterday, now today, this screed (that can also be read as judgment against the LGBT community the way it's written).

 

This also reads strongly Calvinistic with its "angry God." Read "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God" by Johnathan Edwards. It is the sermon that pretty much scared 18th century America into hardcore fundamentalism. Surprise! He was a Puritan! This reeks of Ben's style; Jessa just happened to be the one home to post it, knowing it would get a larger audience during the day. After all, what else does she DO during the day?

 

To me, it reads as hate speech. MMV, of course. 

[GEML]

Ah, poor thing. Stuff like that usually come after a period of "soul searching" and "deep conviction" and promises of "recommitment" not unlike the same brain chemistry that allows people to fall in love (that's not a slam - marriages would die out if we didn't continually fall in love with our own spouses, but religions would also collapse if we didn't have emotional connections to them repeatedly.). But it also might mean someone pushed and pushed her hard. I wish I didn't think that, but too many years in this world make me feel that such a public display are inevitably are part and parcel a way to make someone (who?) say to her, "Jessa, I'm so proud of you." Doubt it's Jesus, though.

[Betweenyouandme]

A hate speech? I see it as Jessa calling out rationalizing things. I mean, I've certainly done things and kept doing things that I know deep down aren't good for me, like I used to drink too much, causing myself a lot of problems. I'd rationalize it saying that so many people I knew drank just as much I did and it was a lot of fun sometimes. But, it wasn't ok for me, and I stopped finally. Best thing I could have done even though sometimes it makes me unhappy.

I see Jessa's post as a reminder to look beyond "fun."

She also talk about in her faith she believes having faith in Jesus is what gives a person entrance to Heaven, and that she believes Hell is real. How is the belief of Heaven and Hell and what brings a person to each place, as stated in her religious text, a hate speech? To me, what she wrote is what Christianity is. So, basically, are you saying Christians are a hate group? I vehemently disagree.

I think theres a line between being offended by the Duggars and offending people of a religion. Calling major tenants of a religion "crap," calling its followers names, and making accusations that what Christians believe about Heaven and Hell and having faith in Jesus is a hate speech...imo is crossing that line.

Edited February 26, 2015 by Betweenyouandme

[Gweilo]

Seeing as they're obviously experts, I would like to request that Jessa and Ben clarify whether or not the following things exist:

The perfect pair of jeans

The ability to run for a bus without looking like a prat

John Travolta's real hair

A definitive solution to the vexing issue of the Oxford comma

Disco fever

Ta.

[Catlyn]

I love how she says, "our human hearts are bent toward sin and not righteousness. We shouldn't follow the inclinations of our heart" but then one of the most popular sayings her group has when they are making a decision is "God has laid it on my heart..."  How can they really be sure?  Maybe that sneaky Devil has really put his answer there while they were not paying attention.

 

I'm just glad my idea of Christianity isn't like theirs.

[floridamom]

I would like to take my post in response to Jessa's religious ranting over to the Religion thread...thanks.

[Betweenyouandme]

I love how she says, "our human hearts are bent toward sin and not righteousness. We shouldn't follow the inclinations of our heart" but then one of the most popular sayings her group has when they are making a decision is "God has laid it on my heart..." How can they really be sure? Maybe that sneaky Devil has really put his answer there while they were not paying attention.

I'm just glad my idea of Christianity isn't like theirs.

Jessa says because what is laid on your heart will match what the Bible instructs.

[jmt111]

A hate speech? I see it as Jessa calling out rationalizing things. I mean, I've certainly done things and kept doing things that I know deep down aren't good for me, like I used to drink too much, causing myself a lot of problems. I'd rationalize it saying that so many people I knew drank just as much I did and it was a lot of fun sometimes. But, it wasn't ok for me, and I stopped finally. Best thing I could have done even though sometimes it makes me unhappy.

I think theres a line between being offended by the Duggars and offending people of a religion. Calling major tenants of a religion "crap," calling its followers names, and making accusations that what Christians believe about Heaven and Hell and having faith in Jesus is a hate speech...imo is crossing that line.

Ok. I agree that this is not a hate speech. Maybe it's because I'm older, but I find stringing a bunch of Bible quotes as more meaningless, than helpful. I'd rather see them out there living their lives helping this world by their actions than FB posts. And I don't mean their ministry trips, or dressing modestly, etc. but just going to soup kitchens, supporting the homeless and other oppressed groups. Or even recognizing oppressed groups. Honestly the hypopcrisy is mind numbing.

Edited February 26, 2015 by jmt111

[galax-arena]

LMAO, Jessa's a peach. 

To keep silent is to not care for their eternal destiny! I care about you, and this is why I am speaking out!”

Please don't, Jessa. I think I can do without your "caring" nature. 

 

You know, I wonder if she and Ben will ever end up pulling a Bethany & Gideon Torode. And then they'll just look back on the crap they spewed and cringe.  

[Catlyn]

Jessa says because what is laid on your heart will match what the Bible instructs.

 

 

What I'm saying is, How do you tell the difference? You may want to do something very much, so you say it was laid on my heart. But, that necessarily doesn't mean that God put it there. She's relying too much on the heart. If God had laid it on my brain, it may be different.

[floridamom]

So, did Josh, Jill and Jessa NOT follow their hearts in their decisions in whom to marry? What did they follow, other than Jim Bob's dictation about those things?

[galax-arena]

If God had laid it on my brain, it may be different.

The Duggars using their brains? That's the best joke I've heard all week! 

 

God has laid it on my heart that I should not follow Jessa's advice. 

[Skittl1321]

 

Every one of us have broken God's law, and hell is our deserved punishment.

 

So what's even the point? 

 

I thought Jesus had offered me salvation, but Jessa seems to be sending us all to hell, herself included.

[Fuzzysox]

If Bin and JessaBlessa want to be the next Tammy Faye and Jim Baker they really  need to step up their hair game. Jessa needs MUCH bigger hair ala Erin Bates, lots more makeup and some fake nails. Bin just needs to helmethead his hair with Boob's hairspray.

[TheDoctorsCompanio]

On a side note:

Ben and Jessa both posted pictures of an evening run they did together. Cute that they are trying to live a healthy lifestyle. I'm glad he's influencing her with that. I see she always post instagram pics of different shakes and snacks she's made.

[Betweenyouandme]

What I'm saying is, How do you tell the difference? You may want to do something very much, so you say it was laid on my heart. But, that necessarily doesn't mean that God put it there. She's relying too much on the heart. If God had laid it on my brain, it may be different.

By reading the Bible, being knowledgable about it. Seeing if what your heart is telling you is against something the Bible commands.

So what's even the point?

I thought Jesus had offered me salvation, but Jessa seems to be sending us all to hell, herself included.

Jesus is offering salvation. Jessa is saying to be wary of false prophets and to believe that Hell is real for those who don't believe. Like in the Bible, many people back then would melt down gold and make golden calves. They'd pray to them. They were, if I recall correctly, new to worshipping the Lord but didn't understand that what they were actually really praying to was a hunk of metal, not God. This is an example. Jessa is reminding people that if you're searching for God and Jesus- go to the Bible, not just all around, feeling happy.

The Golden Calf Exodus 32

32 When the people saw that Moses was so long in coming down from the mountain, they gathered around Aaron and said, “Come, make us gods[a] who will go before us. As for this fellow Moses who brought us up out of Egypt, we don’t know what has happened to him.”

2 Aaron answered them, “Take off the gold earrings that your wives, your sons and your daughters are wearing, and bring them to me.” 3 So all the people took off their earrings and brought them to Aaron. 4 He took what they handed him and made it into an idol cast in the shape of a calf, fashioning it with a tool. Then they said, “These are your gods, Israel, who brought you up out of Egypt.”

5 When Aaron saw this, he built an altar in front of the calf and announced, “Tomorrow there will be a festival to the Lord.” 6 So the next day the people rose early and sacrificed burnt offerings and presented fellowship offerings. Afterward they sat down to eat and drink and got up to indulge in revelry.

7 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Go down, because your people, whom you brought up out of Egypt, have become corrupt. 8 They have been quick to turn away from what I commanded them and have made themselves an idol cast in the shape of a calf. They have bowed down to it and sacrificed to it and have said, ‘These are your gods, Israel, who brought you up out of Egypt.’"

Edited February 26, 2015 by Betweenyouandme

[GEML]

That's a lot of Old Testament....

[Jynnan tonnix]

By reading the Bible, being knowledgable about it. Seeing if what your heart is telling you is against something the Bible commands

 

If everything in the Bible was so immediately clear and impossible to misinterpret there would not be hundreds of different sects out there.