Jessa, Ben and Their Brood: Making a (Diaper) Mountain out of a Mold House

[BradandJanet]

Are you freaking shitting me? They registered for a MacBook?! I guess Binny Boy needs a top of the line laptop to post his anti-abortion rants. What a couple of self-indulgent, entitled assholes.

 

Well, they need it to complement the iPad mini also on the "gimme" list. However, they're only asking for one of each, ya know. 

 

This is the Amazon registry. The Bed, Bath & Beyond registry has just about everything else imaginable. No cheap crap on Benessa's list! They sure do crave the same worldly stuff we heathens do.

[ms.o]

I may have to go visit my brother in law the weekend of Jessas wedding. He lives about 10 minutes from Rogers and I kinda want to see this train wreck.

[Iwadre]

I may have to go visit my brother in law the weekend of Jessas wedding. He lives about 10 minutes from Rogers and I kinda want to see this train wreck.

I totally would do this, but wouldn't tell anyone in my real life. I'd say I was off to Target. Be so crazy to get a glimpse of the mayhem;)

[NikSac]

And to think I felt sort of guilty asking for a $50 blender when hubby and I got married (our friend who likes margaritas bought it for us haha). 

 

Furniture, laptops, and restaurant gift cards?  I just can't even imagine. It's definitely nice to receive a "night out" gift like dinner, movie, etc. but I can't imagine registering for it. As someone mentioned earlier I bet they plan to return most physical gifts for store credit too. That seems to be the norm lately. So far I've gotten two different shower/wedding invites that pretty much said (in slightly nicer language) "please include gift receipts, as the bride and groom will be returning everything."  Ohhhkayyyy.

[abseedee]

Oops, Ben did it again.

 

His latest FB post:

Teens, WE ARE the future. Let us join together and BE the change. Throw off the apathy of the last generation! We will stand for the defenseless. We will protect the persecuted. We will feed the hungry. We must end slavery! We must end the abortion holocaust! We are the future, and we will not be stopped.

 

https://www.facebook.com/benL4CSeewald?ref=br_tf

 

Who does he think he is calling previous generations apathetic......so disrespectful.  Also, I guess he forgot his future in laws are from a previous generation.  What a dimwit he is.

Edited September 2, 2014 by abseedee

[Fuzzysox]

I read the comments people made to Bin yesterday. He still thinks he is all that. What an ass. He'll never learn and they only reason he is getting married is to get some.

[CPP83]

Are you freaking shitting me? They registered for a MacBook?! I guess Binny Boy needs a top of the line laptop to post his anti-abortion rants. What a couple of self-indulgent, entitled assholes.

 

 

 

 

I guess to be fair he needs a shiny new toy to play with while she's all knocked up and everything, and considering that very well could end up being every single year of her reproductive life cycle, plus whatever she can squeeze out using modern medical science just like mummy dearest has done, he also should ask for a couple of Apple store gift cards as well just in case, I'm sure he'll want to keep his begging as classy as possible.

[mbutterfly]

I read the comments people made to Bin yesterday. He still thinks he is all that. What an ass. He'll never learn and they only reason he is getting married is to get some.

If I were a teenager and people were replying to my facebook the way people are, I would hide in the woods. Or at least make my facebook private. 

[galax-arena]

Teens, WE ARE the future. Let us join together and BE the change. Throw off the apathy of the last generation! We will stand for the defenseless. We will protect the persecuted. We will feed the hungry. We must end slavery! We must end the abortion holocaust! We are the future, and we will not be stopped.

Ben is such an arrogant asshole. And I absolutely cannot with people who refer to abortion as a holocaust. Total red flag that their opinion isn’t even worth considering.

[maraleia]

The sad thing is Ben is right that he is a teenager which makes his upcoming marriage to Jessa (who isn't a teenager anymore) all the more sad and tragic. I keep on thinking about fundamentalists (like ISIS and ISIL) around the world and how they are infecting society with their warped ideas of the world. Ben is proof that some people shouldn't have a soap box to spout their beliefs.

Also, their wedding registries are a disgusting display of consumption and greed. I guess that's what happens when (in Jessa's case) you aren't allowed to have anything that's your own (having to share everything with your sisters) your whole life.

[BitterApple]

I don't know if any of you used to watch Seinfeld, but there was a hilarious epi where George was too cheap to buy his co-workers Christmas gifts, so he made up fake cards telling them he had planted trees in their honor. If I were invited to Jessa's wedding and saw that ridiculous registry, I would totally be going that route.

 

Ben is such an arrogant asshole. And I absolutely cannot with people who refer to abortion as a holocaust. Total red flag that their opinion isn’t even worth considering.

I agree. For Bin to use such extreme language shows he isn't willing to look at both sides of the issue. His opinion is right, no matter what. I've never seen a teenaged boy so preoccupied with women's reproductive systems. It's creepy to me.

[GEML]

To be honest, I think the language is pretty typical for 19. It's like the college freshman who comes home and announced that the Puritans were colonial oppressors and murderers or the daughter who is now vegan and and a lesbian. If you have spent time in or around fundamentalist circles, this age is the most extreme - no different from anyone else, just with their own issues that they are trying to find their voice by being pretty black and white about. I can say with 99% certainty that he'll mellow with some time. Most of us do, no matter where we start or what issues we use to take our late adolescent stands.

[galax-arena]

It's like the college freshman who comes home and announced that the Puritans were colonial oppressors and murderers or the daughter who is now vegan and and a lesbian.

TBH I don't think they're all that comparable. There isn’t anything offensive about claiming you’re a vegan or lesbian even if your feelings evolve later on. (Won't get into the stuff about Puritans.) If you were a vegan/vegetarian who compared the slaughter of chickens to the Holocaust - which has actually happened, IIRC by PETA, and is probably a big reason why so many people don’t take PETA seriously - that’d be a different story, and I think people would be right to then disregard whatever you have to say on the subject. If you end up evolving and mellowing out later on, great, but until then, no thanks, using that sort of language tells me that your opinion at that moment isn’t worth considering at all. (General “you” of course.)

 

Plus, Michelle has also referred to abortion as a holocaust, and it’s a popular bit of rhetoric in that circle, not just among the young, so I don’t really have any confidence that Ben’s views will evolve. Not that it’s impossible, of course. But y’know, I used to be pro-life/anti-choice when I was Ben’s age, and even then I didn’t use that sort of rhetoric. Neither did any of my fellow pro-life friends in college. We were fairly set about our positions, but we weren’t assholes about it.

Edited September 2, 2014 by galax-arena

[Fuzzysox]

I think Bin used the words "I'm anti-abortion" to get into Boobs pants so he could court Jessa because the kid is a complete loser. He probably sold himself as a wanna be minister and he was "in." (well almost lol)

[Jynnan tonnix]

The Vegan thing hits close to home for me at the moment. I have a couple of cousins and a brother-in-law who are vegan. One cousin and the BIL are very cool and live-and-let-live about it; it's their own choice which works for them. They might post some PETA stuff on their facebook pages here and there, but won't proselytize or demonize you for eating meat if you are out somewhere together, etc. The other cousin recently told me she wanted nothing to do with me or anyone else in the family ever again after I took the omnivore side in what seemed a reasonably friendly and polite debate on her facebook page. I'd had no idea of the extent which some of these militant vegans take their position. Some of the other people in the debate who took the vegan position were of the opinion that there is no way to have any sort of relationship with someone who eats meat or uses any animal products, as it is akin to "sitting next to a mass-murderer, rapist, pedophile; someone who had just slaughtered my entire family and talking to them as though nothing was wrong". I guess she drank that kool-aid.

 

[JessDVD]

The vegan or lesbian thing might or might not (depending on your perspective IMO) necessarily be comparable to the abortion thing, but I think the point still remains that lots of 19-year-olds are didactic and obnoxious about their cause of choice, and mellow out what they say in public, even if not their convictions, as they age. That's what I see in Ben. And again, I am profoundly grateful that facebook didn't exist when I was 19, although I'd like to think I was never that didactic or obnoxious :)

[galax-arena]

But there’s a difference between just being obnoxious and being a total asshole. A vegan who constantly preaches at you is obnoxious. A vegan who compares chicken slaughter to the Holocaust is a total asshole. And I don’t think it’s a given that most 19-year-olds are necessarily the latter. Doesn’t mean that he absolutely won’t evolve, of course, but I’m not willing to give him a pass due to his age when none of the 19-year-olds I knew were like that, even if we were obnoxious blowhards in general lol.

[GEML]

I just think that the line between being a obnoxious and a total a$$hole has a lot more to do with the audience than anything. It's pretty subjective. I think the attitude of the late adolescent is pretty much the same. As plenty of people who have truly been part of the pro-life movement will tell you, if it were truly a holocaust, then people would be willing to put their own lives, fortunes and sacred honor on the line the way families like the ten Booms did during the actual Holocaust. You don't fight a Holocaust by wearing t-shirts and appearing on a reality show. It's all talk, and the older Duggars know it, but they LOVE the money. Ben will come to love it soon enough too.

[DangerousMinds]

Oops, Ben did it again.

 

His latest FB post:

Teens, WE ARE the future. Let us join together and BE the change. Throw off the apathy of the last generation! We will stand for the defenseless. We will protect the persecuted. We will feed the hungry. We must end slavery! We must end the abortion holocaust! We are the future, and we will not be stopped.

 

https://www.facebook.com/benL4CSeewald?ref=br_tf

 

Who does he think he is calling previous generations apathetic......so disrespectful.  Also, I guess he forgot his future in laws are from a previous generation.  What a dimwit he is.

OMG - delusional! He will feed the hungry? Maybe start with getting a job that will support your own soon-to-be large family, you nitwit.

[maraleia]

I love how Bin describes himself as a business person on his Facebook fan page. I don't even do that and I'm 43 for crying out loud.

[abseedee]

OMG - delusional! He will feed the hungry? Maybe start with getting a job that will support your own soon-to-be large family, you nitwit.

Ben's talk is cheap.  Yes, it's okay to state that you will do this and you will do that but if would be nice if he could explain how he thinks they could be accomplished.  But then again I don't think he knows what he is talking about less so how it could be done.  Spewing words is easier for him.  If he wants to feed the hungry he could do it now, like maybe volunteering to work at a soup kitchen or other charitable groups.

Edited September 2, 2014 by abseedee

[RazzleberryPie]

Eh, people from every generation think they invented everything and will change the world. Few do. I'm not to worried about Bin. As long as he's chasing Jessa and posting nine million selfies on social media, he's really not making much of an impact besides annoying more mature people.

[lizzie3]

Re: the extravagant registries, to me this is a symptom of two spoiled children who have no idea of the value of a dollar.  If you've never had to go to work, you don't have a clue what $1,000 really means (i.e. how many hours of work it takes to earn that amount of money).  And besides that, don't the Duggars already have fancy Mac computers?  They're really treating this wedding as a chance to get brand-new toys.

[Lillybee]

I just watched the engagement episode and I noticed that in her last talking head, Jessa spoke in Michelle's baby voice for a bit. I loved her for doing that.

[CPP83]

If he wants to feed the hungry he could do it now, like maybe volunteering to work at a soup kitchen or other charitable groups

 

 

 

Maybe that's why they're asking for the restaurant gift cards!

 

They'll pick up the poor from off the streets and treat their weary, tired, hungry bodies to a nice sit down meal at the local Olive Garden. I mean, why else would young kids ask their friends and huge ass families to provide them with free food just because they're getting married, it really is just the selflessness in them coming out.

 

Oh, and funny how he calls it the "abortion holocaust" and yet to "stop it" as he so proclaims his generation must do it would involve taking away freedom of choice, which also is a very holocaust like action if he's wanting to get technical. 

[DangerousMinds]

To stop it, he should really get educated on birth control options. Better birth control = far fewer abortions.

[CPP83]

[H]e should really get educated

 

 

 

I think he needs to start there period, about everything. And imo it doesn't matter what he learns or not, until he accepts that regardless of his own feelings and thoughts that he can not and should not expect his moral compass to be the standard for how others live their lives. This whole android clan, as I like to call them, acts and behaves all the same, he may as well have been born a Dugger, not marrying into the family.

[wanderwoman]

Ok. Begin rant!

If you refer to yourself as a "teenager", then you shouldn't be engaged and expecting the world to view you as a man. You don't get to have it both ways. F him and his b/s about the abortion being comparable to the holocaust. It's that ignorant, demeaning language that makes pro-life people so hard to take seriously. Comparing abortion (where an embryo with POTENTIAL to survive outside the woman in nine months) to the pointed, selective genocide of fully functioning human beings is ridiculous. Furthermore, no one us choosing to abort because their embryo/fetus is Jewish or of a certain ethnicity. The Holocaust was the systematic extermination of a group of people solely due to the pompous, paranoid ramblings of a psychotic dictator. Last time I checked, abortion was an individual choice based on a woman's capacity or desire to have a child. F you in the ear if you can't tell the difference. Look, Abortion IS controversial and it's, in some respects, traumatic and sad. I don't think any woman would choose abortion if there was a viable solution to their specific set of issues. Adoption can be just as traumatic and devastating. I'm talking about real solutions to things like poverty, violence, rape, and illness. People like Ben want to make a villain, on the same level as Hitler, out of women who choose abortion and it only weakens their argument. Is abortion wrong? Maybe...maybe not. But, it's not the same thing as the Holocaust! Ben is just too immature and illogical to vary from the party line.

Let me be very clear- it's completely within your right to stand against abortion. Just leave the Hitler argument out of it.

Registering for expensive "wants" only diminishes his credibility, in my opinion. If you want to save the fetuses of the world, ask your guests to donate to a couple trying to adopt or donate to a woman who is terrified of her inability to provide for the NEEDS of an infant. How about foregoing wedding gifts all together and putting your money where your mouth is, Bin? Forego those hair products and electronics and commit to the care and financial stability and needs of a teenager who wants to keep her baby but can't! Take that money and offer it to the woman who is living with an abusive spouse and is terrified that her baby will be the next punching bag! Give the money to the couple who didn't abort the baby born with severe birth defects because people like yourself guilted them into keeping a baby that would have a life of pain. Take responsibility for your words and positions.

Lastly, Bin, get off your high horse! If you weren't marrying funny royalty, you wouldn't have the pulpit you have now. Use your notoriety (completely unearned notoriety, nonetheless) to improve the life of women and children instead of blathering about things you have no capacity or intelligence or experience to understand.

- sorry to everyone for the angry tone of this post. Watching privileged "teenagers" judge people for a choice ticks me off.

I love how Bin describes himself as a business person on his Facebook fan page. I don't even do that and I'm 43 for crying out loud.

Didn't you hear? He's a milianary for fundy rumps. So much asshattery, so little time. :) Edited September 3, 2014 by wanderwoman

[Fuzzysox]

Bin is really, really stoopid. That is all.

[Portia]

I don't know if any of you used to watch Seinfeld, but there was a hilarious epi where George was too cheap to buy his co-workers Christmas gifts, so he made up fake cards telling them he had planted trees in their honor. 

 

 

Forgive me, but he actually made up a charity, The Human Fund. Its motto: "The Human Fund. Money . . . for people."

[flyingdi]

I know this may be unpopular but I kind of like Jessa. That girl speaks her mind far more so than Jill who seems too worried about saying the right thing.

Question. I have been watching Dishing with the Duggars and several of the kids seem to be saying Jessica. Am I hearing this wrong?

[Boton]

 

Also, their wedding registries are a disgusting display of consumption and greed. I guess that's what happens when (in Jessa's case) you aren't allowed to have anything that's your own (having to share everything with your sisters) your whole life.

 

This is the saddest part to me.  All of the Duggar girls have basically been living their entire lives in suspended animation, being told that their lives aren't valid and treasured until they get married and start having babies.  This is 20+ years of pent-up demand from someone who was constantly told that eating out wasn't possible without a passle of siblings in tow and a three-figure tab, that a MacBook is the gateway to the internet and therefore to hell, that any desire to be pretty or decorate a room or explore an interest was somehow tied to vanity and selfishness.  Now, all those natural desires are unleashed in one big celebratory moment.  Think of what you did with your first paycheck from your first job, then multiply that feeling by about a million, and that's what the Duggar girls are feeling.

[DangerousMinds]

It seems to me that they are very much encouraged to spend time prettifying themselves. Jessa certainly doesn't need to get married in order to spend hours on her hair and makeup.

[RazzleberryPie]

As much as I want to smack the smug off Jessa (gaining three pounds of lip gunk in the process) and just shake Ben by the shoulders until I hear a brain rattle, I do love that she doesn't talk in that stilted, high pitched, baby voice. Jessa's voice sounds natural, and almost low - for a woman and definitely compared to the fake, weird, baby voices Michelle, Anna, Priscilla and Jill use.

 

They sound like they're purposefully speaking with their tongues stuck to the roofs of their mouths and trying to sound like they have some sort of baby speech issue. It's not cute. It's not soothing. It's not Marilyn Monroe sexy.

[Hpmec]

Ben is an immature teenager who is incapable of supporting a family., He has no business getting married, and JimBoob is an idiot for sanctioning it. If Jessa was being married off to someone suitable for her, she'd be making plans to get the hell out of Dodge after the ceremony. Looking at her selfies, she doesn't seem too much invested in the whole Gothard thing. As it is, she'll be stuck on the compound, married to an obnoxious kid who's owned by her father, and, more than likely, miserable.

[BradandJanet]

As much as I want to smack the smug off Jessa (gaining three pounds of lip gunk in the process) and just shake Ben by the shoulders until I hear a brain rattle, I do love that she doesn't talk in that stilted, high pitched, baby voice. Jessa's voice sounds natural, and almost low - for a woman and definitely compared to the fake, weird, baby voices Michelle, Anna, Priscilla and Jill use.

 

They sound like they're purposefully speaking with their tongues stuck to the roofs of their mouths and trying to sound like they have some sort of baby speech issue. It's not cute. It's not soothing. It's not Marilyn Monroe sexy.

 

Maybe talking like a three-year-old is a privilege of marriage. Jessa ought to practice in the prayer closet in case she and Bin somehow get hitched in a hurry and she needs to pull out the sweet voice and adoring side glances for the cameras. It would be both awesome and awful to see Princess Jessa doing that shtick. 

[DangerousMinds]

As much as I want to smack the smug off Jessa (gaining three pounds of lip gunk in the process) and just shake Ben by the shoulders until I hear a brain rattle, I do love that she doesn't talk in that stilted, high pitched, baby voice. Jessa's voice sounds natural, and almost low - for a woman and definitely compared to the fake, weird, baby voices Michelle, Anna, Priscilla and Jill use.

 

They sound like they're purposefully speaking with their tongues stuck to the roofs of their mouths and trying to sound like they have some sort of baby speech issue. It's not cute. It's not soothing. It's not Marilyn Monroe sexy.

I wonder if Jessa has even heard of Marilyn Monroe?

[CarolMK]

I hope by the time that Jessa and Ben's wedding is filmed, Jim Bob and Michele will be over that stupid "saving our first kiss for our wedding day crap". Because somehow, I just don't think these two are going to wait for the day itself to make out. Wasn't one of their "chaperones" one of her little brothers, who's maybe 10 years old? Easy enough to sneak in a kiss when the kid isn't paying attention. And why make such a frigging big deal about it in the first place? What if one of their other kids, especially the boys, decide that they aren't going to wait? What announcement will they make then at the alter?

[Sew Sumi]

I love how Bin describes himself as a business person on his Facebook fan page. I don't even do that and I'm 43 for crying out loud.

There was no option for "Professional Famewhore."

[mimionthebeach]

There was no option for "Professional Famewhore."

I think he's keen but still learning the ropes. I'd go with "Famewhore Intern". Jim Bob's the benchmark professional.

[Sew Sumi]

He does have one famewhore advantage that Boob has never utilized, one that's been prominently discussed on this thread: social media. Duggarfam launched a facebook page yesterday, but I imagine Jinger runs that, in addition to the Instagram (with Joy's help).

 

At any rate, I think we can agree that he's a Millenial Famewhore. :)

[Hpmec]

Ben takes famewhoring to new levels by moving into the compound even before an engagement is announced, becoming JimBoob's male servant and professional "yes" man, and appearing alongside Jessa in an endless stream of self-promoting selfies. He'd better enjoy his 15 minutes, because I fear that the crash and burn, when it comes, will be brutal.

[BitterApple]

 He'd better enjoy his 15 minutes, because I fear that the crash and burn, when it comes, will be brutal.

I think Bin and Jessa are two good looking kids with raging hormones and that's the driving force behind their relationship. I think they'll be happy for the first 3-6 months of their marriage. Once they've had all the sex they want and the bloom comes off the rose, they're going to be miserable with one another. I don't wish bad on them, it's just such an obvious trainwreck waiting to happen.

[flyingdi]

The thing that would most worry me about a marriage between Jessa and Ben is the talking heads. Jessa will often say something sarcastic or snarky and Ben will give her a look like "Are you making fun of me?" That does not bode well for the future to me. Jessa needs someone who can either keep up with her or ignore her sense of humor. Ben seems far too serious for this.

[Marigold]

agreeing that this couple doesn't look like they can go the distance.

 

I find Jessa to be like the mean girl in high school. I dislike her a lot.  I think she has inherited her dad's smug attitude. And for someone so "religious", she certainly looks very made up and concerned with hair, clothes and make up. Isn't that deliberatly trying to entice Ben with lusty thoughts of her? NIKE!

 

Ben is a mess.  I'm surprised Jim Bob hasn't shut him down by now.  Give him some media training. 

I'm not on Facebook but I read your summary of his rant.  Oh dear. 19 year olds shouldn't post rants.  It just sounds so foolish to grown ups. 

 

Benessa will be a lot of fun to watch and analyze. 

[jcbrown]

So Bin is going to have his own room in a building separated from the main house. An 18 year-old incredibly horny young man (sorry, that's redundant) is going to be in closer proximity to the object of his lust at all times. And to have a private room with no accountability partner. I am surprised, given the Duggar's obsession with sex and the policing of the sexual feelings of their offspring, that they are providing such privacy for Bin. I would think it would trouble them that he might be able to, shall we say, take matters into his own hands.

[DangerousMinds]

I'm sure he has been taking care of himself for some time now, despite any church teachings. Too bad that he is probably conditioned to feel guilty about it, though.

Boob did mention something about a curfew, and I doubt Jessa will be allowed anywhere near that windowless prison without an escort.

[leighroda]

I don't even know where to start with the snarking...

1) wedding registry: what happened to buy used and save the difference? What about a perfectly good refurbished MacBook Air? Ohhhh wait it doesn't matter about saving the difference if someone else is buying it... Check.

2) wedding registry: I could use a new computer... So I should probably quite wasting my time here and head on over to eharmony and get me a courtship going so I too can get the wish list of my dreams. Do I specify the color of the Lexus SUV I want or just be surprised?

3) Facebook rant: the whole "teens we are the future" ummmm no dillhole (a pickle reference not Jill/Derrick)... The children are the future... At least that's what Whitney Houston taught me... And by Michelle duggers standards you are about 17 1/2 years past your prime so have a stadium full of seats... Thanks.

I know I'm a bit extra ridiculous, but I just can't take anything they say or do seriously...I really can't think of a reasonable argument to any of this, because they are so unreasonable that they actually think that being the fifth clown out of Michelle's vajayjay is reason enough that someone should just gift them a 1,000+ computer!?!? It just makes me so angry that people that feel such a need to constantly remind us that they are better because they "do things a little differently" are being so greedy about these registries. I understand a few bigger ticket items when they are actual legit kitchenware, or houseware... Sometimes people have that over zealous relative or group of friends that can group together and buy it...but a public registry with just random crap... A majority of which is not needed when starting out a new household... Makes me mad. I can't wait to see the baby registry... I guess at least it's safe to assume there won't be any pesky college bonds on that registry... Baby's gonna need a fresh pair of nikes.

End rant.

[DangerousMinds]

So I wonder if Bin is allowed any kind of computer while living in the aluminum room? Because if so, who will monitor his internet use?

[Katenotplus8]

My guess would be that if he has a computer in the "guest house" he'd be using the duggar wifi, and therefore need the code from j'chelle and jana.  Let's face it he can't pay for internet with his own money.  

 

As many others have posted, I really don't feel like these two are a lasting fit.  If it was just their age against them, that wouldn't necessarily be disastrous. My parents were married young, my dad was 19, mom was 21.  That being said they both had jobs, mom had an associates degree and they BOTH worked, and it was HARD.  They are still married nearly 36 years later.  Its possible.  Jessa doesn't even seem to like Ben, seems like he's more of a status symbol, look at me the first duggar girl to go into a courtship.  He's so young I don't think he really knows what he's getting in to.  I truly hope if these two do get married they do some NFP (they won't i'm sure, but wouldn't that be great) before starting their family right off the bat.  I don't believe either of them are ready to be married let alone parents.  I don't feel that way about Jill and Derick, while I personally would have waited to get pregnant, I think they are a good match and have the maturity to put the other person's needs in front of their own.