The Business: News, Rumours, Analysis, and More

[Guest]

3 hours ago, AimingforYoko said:

Apparently, Feige's nixed it being on Disney+. Iger would have to overrule him and that might get ugly.

I wouldn’t consider that site to be credible. In the last week they also posted that Marvel was abandoning theatrical releases and will CGI Chadwick Boseman into future movies. 

[AimingforYoko]

Wendell Pierce to play blues great B.B. King in biopic.

That is perfect casting.

[topanga]

11 hours ago, AimingforYoko said:

Wendell Pierce to play blues great B.B. King in biopic.

That is perfect casting.

Agreed. I met BB King in the ‘90s, and Wendell Pierce resembles him a lot. Plus, he’s a great actor so there’s that. 

[Silver Raven]

Daniel Kaluuya is working on a live action Barney movie.  That sounds horrifying.

 

[Anduin]

1 hour ago, Silver Raven said:

Daniel Kaluuya is working on a live action Barney movie.  That sounds horrifying.

 

I hope it pays the bills.

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Silver Raven said:

Daniel Kaluuya is working on a live action Barney movie.  That sounds horrifying.

 

Daniel Kaluuya is still making his Barney movie sound weirdly dramatic

Quote

Barney taught us, ‘I love you, you love me. Won’t you say you love me too?’ That’s one of the first songs I remember, and what happens when that isn’t true? I thought that was really heartbreaking. I have no idea why but it feels like that makes sense. It feels like there’s something unexpected that can be poignant but optimistic. Especially at this time now, I think that’s really, really needed.

What!?! What’s next, the haunting beauty of Blue’s Clues? The true story behind Bear in the Big Blue House?

Damn it, now the song is stuck in my head. 

[thuganomics85]

Quote

What!?! What’s next, the haunting beauty of Blue’s Clues? The true story behind Bear in the Big Blue House?

Damn it, now the song is stuck in my head. 

I vote they take a page from Saturday Night Live and do a "grounded, realistic" portrayal of Sesame Street! 

 

[Ambrosefolly]

I am voting for the live action version of Bambi.

 

[xaxat]

I drove by my local second run movie theater and saw people taking equipment out and loading it into a truck. So I guess they are permanently closed. 😥

[AimingforYoko]

Danai Gurira to star in The Fighting Shirley Chisholm.

She had one of the best campaign slogans ever: "Unbought and Unbossed."

 

[BetterButter]

Netflix Buys International Rights to Tom Hanks’ ‘News of the World’

[xaxat]

I am surprised that Dreamworks still appears to be committed to releasing The Croods 2 on Thanksgiving. Things are only going to get worse over the next week.

[AimingforYoko]

1 hour ago, xaxat said:

I am surprised that Dreamworks still appears to be committed to releasing The Croods 2 on Thanksgiving. Things are only going to get worse over the next week.

Here in MN, the governor just closed theaters (and gyms and dine-in restaurants) for four weeks.

[starri]

If Black Widow joins Soul and Wonder Woman 1984 as a streaming debut, you can just write the obituary for theaters.  You've already got two of the biggest brands, add the absolute biggest and it's over.

[absnow54]

Weird move. I would think Dreamworks' VOD success with Trolls 2 would inspire them to do the same with Croods 2. Especially when more people will be eating at home this year, and will want to keep their kids occupied while they prepare Thanksgiving dinner. 

[Guest]

6 hours ago, starri said:

If Black Widow joins Soul and Wonder Woman 1984 as a streaming debut, you can just write the obituary for theaters.  You've already got two of the biggest brands, add the absolute biggest and it's over.

That’s probably true if New York and LA theaters aren’t open by March regardless of what Marvel does with Black Widow. It’s not an industry that can weather a year shutdown. 

[xaxat]

I still think there's a chance that a cash rich, content producing company like Netflix/Amazon/Apple swoops in to buy a big chain on the cheap.

[starri]

Netflix already swooped in to rescue the Paris Theater (home of the most uncomfortable seating in NYC), which I'm assuming is exclusively for their Oscar qualifying runs.  I don't see an advantage to them buying a chain.

Disney who (until COVID, anyway) made a majority of their money from leisure activities, makes more sense to me as an exercise in brand extension.

[BetterButter]

'Godzilla vs. Kong' Likely the Latest Tentpole to Go to a Streamer

[BetterButter]

‘Dune,’ ‘Matrix 4,’ and Every 2021 Warner Bros. Film to Debut on HBO Max and in Theaters at Same Time

[AimingforYoko]

Yeah, that's one way to goose the sub numbers.

[xaxat]

I would be surprised if Disney activist investor Dan Loeb didn't leverage that against management. He's been pushing the company to emphasize the streaming branch of the company by releasing premium content like Black Widow direct to streaming.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, BetterButter said:

‘Dune,’ ‘Matrix 4,’ and Every 2021 Warner Bros. Film to Debut on HBO Max and in Theaters at Same Time

Limiting WW84 to only one month of HBO Max now makes a lot more sense to me. They really need to start emphasizing the 31 day streaming window or there are going to be a lot of people who miss the window for the movie they want to see and get pissed. 

[starri]

RIP movie theaters.

[Irlandesa]

2 hours ago, Dani said:

Limiting WW84 to only one month of HBO Max now makes a lot more sense to me. They really need to start emphasizing the 31 day streaming window or there are going to be a lot of people who miss the window for the movie they want to see and get pissed. 

I don't think they'll care about making people mad.  There will be other options for people to access the films and it'll train people that they can't do what they might do with Netflix or Hulu or even HBO in the past and subscribe to streaming services to watch what someone wants to watch and cancel.

I mean, they can if they're only interested in one or two movies a year (which would be me if I didn't already have Max through my regular HBO subscription) but releasing big movies throughout the year may make people keep their subscriptions current.

 

[Shannon L.]

I wonder why they aren't releasing them on PPV for a couple of months first?

[Irlandesa]

19 minutes ago, Shannon L. said:

I wonder why they aren't releasing them on PPV for a couple of months first?

I think it's because HBO Max came out during the pandemic and is struggling to find buzz worthy content that will get people to sign up.  A lot of people who have it get it through their HBO subscription but don't necessarily engage with it. 

Getting people to sign up for the streaming service for twelve months a year at 18/month will probably net them more annually than giving people the option to pick and choose a few movies to "rent." 

And while people can pick and choose, like I mentioned above, odds are most people get lazy and just keep the service once they're signed up for it.  Or can't figure out how to cancel it once they subscribe (this describes me with some PBS channels I got through Amazon. )

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Irlandesa said:

I don't think they'll care about making people mad.  There will be other options for people to access the films and it'll train people that they can't do what they might do with Netflix or Hulu or even HBO in the past and subscribe to streaming services to watch what someone wants to watch and cancel.

I mean, they can if they're only interested in one or two movies a year (which would be me if I didn't already have Max through my regular HBO subscription) but releasing big movies throughout the year may make people keep their subscriptions current.

My point is that they may miss out on subscribers because the marketing is not making it very clear these are limited releases. Making it clearer could get people to sign up sooner rather than waiting assuming they can watch at any time. It’s just bad marketing which has been a problem with HBO Max all along. 

 

1 hour ago, Irlandesa said:

I think it's because HBO Max came out during the pandemic and is struggling to find buzz worthy content that will get people to sign up.  A lot of people who have it get it through their HBO subscription but don't necessarily engage with it. 

Getting people to sign up for the streaming service for twelve months a year at 18/month will probably net them more annually than giving people the option to pick and choose a few movies to "rent." 

And while people can pick and choose, like I mentioned above, odds are most people get lazy and just keep the service once they're signed up for it.  Or can't figure out how to cancel it once they subscribe (this describes me with some PBS channels I got through Amazon. )

They’re also offering a six month prepaid deal.  With this announcement I imagine a lot more people will take that option. 

 

1 hour ago, Shannon L. said:

I wonder why they aren't releasing them on PPV for a couple of months first?

Because streaming is the one area in entertainment that is thriving during the pandemic. HBO Max is the most expensive streaming service and it has floundered a bit for a lot of reasons. It mostly got negative press at launch and this is a way to get people to give it a chance now that they have fixed some of their issues. 

[Shannon L.]

On 12/3/2020 at 1:34 PM, starri said:

RIP movie theaters.

I didn't read the article, but I saw something that said that Steven Soderbergh thinks that movie theaters will come back.  I don't know when or how he thinks this will happen, but I agree that they'll be back.  It may take a while and it may look a little different in the beginning once they start up again, but I think there are too many people around the world who still truly loved going to the theaters that there will be a market for them again.  I loved going to the movies so much so that most of the time, if I didn't make it to see a movie there, by the time it came to streaming, I lost interest.  I have a hard time watching movies that are made by streaming services even if they look good to me.  We will watch WWII on Christmas Day because it's one that we were looking forward to, but I'm sad that I can't experience it with a crowd.  I can't imagine watching the Marvel series at home, with just a few people, and missing out on the cheers, the laughs, the gasps and the applause--it just wouldn't have been the same.  I'd have still loved the movies, but experiencing them with the crowd made them so much better for me.  I think there are enough people around the world like that that we'll see theaters come back in some capacity.

[Spartan Girl]

Thank you @Shannon L. I’m so sick of people predicting the death of movie theaters. We are only staying home because we HAVE to, not because we want to. And I have zero interest in subscribing to a ton of streaming services just so I can watch different movies. The ONLY reason I’m going to do HBO Max is for WW1984, and even then I’m doing the free trial. None of the other 2021 WB releases are enough to entice me.

Movie theaters will come back. I have to keep believing that.

[Bastet]

4 hours ago, Shannon L. said:

I think there are enough people around the world like that that we'll see theaters come back in some capacity.

I'm not one of those people - I used to be, back when TVs were small, matinees were cheap, and a lot of documentaries could only be seen in theatres, but with a big ol' TV and most things being available on DVD/streaming in a timely fashion, I've long since lost the desire to see much of anything at the cinema; the last film was Halloween (2018) - but I agree.

[Browncoat]

17 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Thank you @Shannon L. I’m so sick of people predicting the death of movie theaters. We are only staying home because we HAVE to, not because we want to. And I have zero interest in subscribing to a ton of streaming services just so I can watch different movies. The ONLY reason I’m going to do HBO Max is for WW1984, and even then I’m doing the free trial. None of the other 2021 WB releases are enough to entice me.

Movie theaters will come back. I have to keep believing that.

Save me a seat, @Spartan Girl.  I'll buy the popcorn!

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Shannon L. said:

I didn't read the article, but I saw something that said that Steven Soderbergh thinks that movie theaters will come back.  I don't know when or how he thinks this will happen, but I agree that they'll be back.  It may take a while and it may look a little different in the beginning once they start up again, but I think there are too many people around the world who still truly loved going to the theaters that there will be a market for them again.  I loved going to the movies so much so that most of the time, if I didn't make it to see a movie there, by the time it came to streaming, I lost interest.  I have a hard time watching movies that are made by streaming services even if they look good to me.  We will watch WWII on Christmas Day because it's one that we were looking forward to, but I'm sad that I can't experience it with a crowd.  I can't imagine watching the Marvel series at home, with just a few people, and missing out on the cheers, the laughs, the gasps and the applause--it just wouldn't have been the same.  I'd have still loved the movies, but experiencing them with the crowd made them so much better for me.  I think there are enough people around the world like that that we'll see theaters come back in some capacity.

I completely agree with you. 

1 hour ago, Spartan Girl said:

The ONLY reason I’m going to do HBO Max is for WW1984, and even then I’m doing the free trial. None of the other 2021 WB releases are enough to entice me.

Unfortunately HBO Max eliminated their free trial last week. 

[Guest]

‘Dune’ Producer Legendary Entertainment May Sue Warner Bros. Over HBO Max Deal

Quote

Legendary financed a significant portion of “Dune,” which cost roughly $175 million, and “Godzilla vs. Kong,” which carries a price tag around $160 million. Yet the company was largely kept out of the loop that their films would be included in Warner Bros.’ plan to send 17 films — its entire 2021 slate — to the subscription streaming service and any open movie theaters.

Sources familiar with the situation say top brass at Legendary are trying to have conversations with Warner Bros. regarding its upcoming films. Legendary and Warner Bros. have frequently collaborated over the years on titles such as Christopher Nolan’s “Dark Knight” trilogy, “The Hangover” movies and the “Godzilla” franchise. Legendary is hoping to first negotiate a more generous deal, but isn’t taking legal action off the table should the two companies fail to come to a compromise. One possibility is that Warner Bros. would buy the films outright from Legendary. No legal challenge has been filed yet, but a suit could materialize early this week. It’s unclear what legal grounds Legendary would use to challenge the decision, though it would likely involve some breach of contract.

 

[Spartan Girl]

34 minutes ago, Dani said:

I completely agree with you. 

Unfortunately HBO Max eliminated their free trial last week. 

Oh godammit. Well I’ll just do it for a month and then cancel my subscription.

[Irlandesa]

6 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Thank you @Shannon L. I’m so sick of people predicting the death of movie theaters. We are only staying home because we HAVE to, not because we want to. And I have zero interest in subscribing to a ton of streaming services just so I can watch different movies. The ONLY reason I’m going to do HBO Max is for WW1984, and even then I’m doing the free trial. None of the other 2021 WB releases are enough to entice me.

Movie theaters will come back. I have to keep believing that.

I don't think theaters will go away but I do think this will kill a lot of independent and smaller mom and pop theaters.  It'll also make it harder on movies from smaller studios to be distributed This move is probably about getting subscriptions to HBO Max.  If they thought they could make as money via VOD as they could in theaters, I think they'd go that route.

There is some speculation, though, that this is also an attempt to realign theatrical ownership now that the DOJ decided to remove the restrictions from the Paramount Decree.  I wouldn't be surprised to see companies like Disney and WB and maybe even Netflix starting to buy theaters from these cash strapped companies who haven't been able to open their theaters during the pandemic.  Especially since they're going to do this throughout the whole year.

If studios started to own theaters, they'd get more control over what is and isn't shown in them.  If they wanted to make a movie a hit, they could fill every theater with that movie. Movies from smaller studios, theoretically, might find it harder to find screens to show on.

In addition, I know art house movie theaters will often help boost their bottom line by dedicating one screen to a blockbuster while showing more artsty/independent movies on their other screens.  If studios are in the theater game, they might not want to let these small art house theaters show their movies on one of their screens because they'd rather have the customers go to their theater to buy tickets, soda, popcorn...etc. 

I don't know the specifics but the fear for theaters goes beyond just the pandemic.

3 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Oh godammit. Well I’ll just do it for a month and then cancel my subscription.

Good luck with the app.  It buffers so much on my TV and one Firestick. I'm going to try it on another but it's a mess trying to watch on a TV and I don't want to watch on my computer.

[scarynikki12]

I want to remind everyone that the Warner Bros 2021 streaming plan is to release these movies on HBO Max for 30 days so pay attention to the dates of the movies you're interested in.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Irlandesa said:

There is some speculation, though, that this is also an attempt to realign theatrical ownership now that the DOJ decided to remove the restrictions from the Paramount Decree.  I wouldn't be surprised to see companies like Disney and WB and maybe even Netflix starting to buy theaters from these cash strapped companies who haven't been able to open their theaters during the pandemic.  Especially since they're going to do this throughout the whole year.

Disney has allows been able to own theaters. They were never subject to the Paramount Decree because they were too small a studio at the time. 

1 hour ago, Irlandesa said:

If studios started to own theaters, they'd get more control over what is and isn't shown in them.  If they wanted to make a movie a hit, they could fill every theater with that movie. Movies from smaller studios, theoretically, might find it harder to find screens to show on.

Doing this would be a violation of antitrust laws. 

[Kel Varnsen]

On 12/3/2020 at 1:32 PM, BetterButter said:

‘Dune,’ ‘Matrix 4,’ and Every 2021 Warner Bros. Film to Debut on HBO Max and in Theaters at Same Time

Christopher Nolan is super pissed about this. Although I have to wonder if part of the reason he is pissed off is because his percentage of box office revenue is usually higher than whatever he makes off of streaming.

[Ohiopirate02]

12 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

If studios started to own theaters, they'd get more control over what is and isn't shown in them.  If they wanted to make a movie a hit, they could fill every theater with that movie. Movies from smaller studios, theoretically, might find it harder to find screens to show on.

 

Honestly, for most of America there would be no change between the studios owning the theatre or current ownership.  AMC and Regal did not show many films from smaller studios for more than a weekend.  Where I live, it was very common for the majority of screens to be devoted to the same 3-4 major titles.  They would try to shoehorn in the smaller films into the remaining one to two screens with insane scheduling.  We sometimes only got the award bait in January and February, but even then those movies would get pulled for the newest releases.  

[Kel Varnsen]

8 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

Honestly, for most of America there would be no change between the studios owning the theatre or current ownership.  AMC and Regal did not show many films from smaller studios for more than a weekend.  Where I live, it was very common for the majority of screens to be devoted to the same 3-4 major titles.  They would try to shoehorn in the smaller films into the remaining one to two screens with insane scheduling.  We sometimes only got the award bait in January and February, but even then those movies would get pulled for the newest releases.  

Plus really is a giant media conglomerate owning a theatre chain any different than the same conglomerate owning a tv network? Disney owns ABC and a bunch of local ABC affiliates. I am not sure I see that as any different than Disney owning a bunch of multiplexes.

[GHScorpiosRule]

13 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

Good luck with the app.  It buffers so much on my TV and one Firestick. I'm going to try it on another but it's a mess trying to watch on a TV and I don't want to watch on my computer.

I watch HBO Max on my television via Amazon Firestick, and have had no buffering issues.

[Irlandesa]

12 hours ago, Dani said:

Disney has allows been able to own theaters. They were never subject to the Paramount Decree because they were too small a studio at the time. 

Sure but they've only owned one which would be different than owning a conglomerate like AMC.

12 hours ago, Dani said:

Doing this would be a violation of antitrust laws. 

Yes but I do think there's a fear that the prosecution of anti-trust laws has been rather lax for a couple of decades so the fact that it could be seen as "against the law" might not be seen as much of a barrier.

 

1 hour ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Plus really is a giant media conglomerate owning a theatre chain any different than the same conglomerate owning a tv network? Disney owns ABC and a bunch of local ABC affiliates. I am not sure I see that as any different than Disney owning a bunch of multiplexes.

Perhaps not.  But there are some other rules related to owning a network and they don't own all the local stations which keeps things interesting.  (And a whole separate question about the effect of conglomerates owning local stations.)

Anyway, I don't if it will happen but that's another reason why people are worried about theaters. 

[Guest]

50 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

Sure but they've only owned one which would be different than owning a conglomerate like AMC.

I actually wasn’t referring to Disney owning the El Capitan. My main point is that Disney has always been able to own a theater chain and has chosen not to. The elimination of the Paramount Decrees has very little impact on studios owning theaters. Even the studios that were restricted by the decree still could own a theater chain. The decree required them to get approval but it was never an outright ban. The fact that the studios have not gone in that direction suggests that they have not wanted to. Obviously COVID may have changed that but box office sales were falling before the pandemic and I would be surprised if one the studios bought a chain as large as AMC. 

[NUguy514]

2 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

I watch HBO Max on my television via Amazon Firestick, and have had no buffering issues.

Yeah, I watch HBO Max through Apple TV and have had zero issues with buffering. 

[Captain Carrot]

13 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Christopher Nolan is super pissed about this. Although I have to wonder if part of the reason he is pissed off is because his percentage of box office revenue is usually higher than whatever he makes off of streaming.

And he would have every right to be pissed if a studio has found a new way to screw creators. Personally I think WB is taking a big gamble here. They'll look like geniuses if theaters are closed for most of 2021, but will be out a lot of box office money if theaters open early enough.

[Kel Varnsen]

On 12/8/2020 at 11:29 PM, Captain Carrot said:

And he would have every right to be pissed if a studio has found a new way to screw creators. Personally I think WB is taking a big gamble here. They'll look like geniuses if theaters are closed for most of 2021, but will be out a lot of box office money if theaters open early enough.

I think I would respect his position more if he just said that movies not being in theatres is costing him a ton of money. He made 20% of the box office for Dunkirk which works out to about $105 million. In a non-pamdemic world he probably would have made around the same for Tenent.So to frame it like it is some kind of thing where people have to see movies in a theatre because of art, even if going to a movie could during a global pandemic could kill you (or worse the person scanning your ticket for minimum wage) is annoying.

Plus at this point if he is making over 100 million off a movie why does he even need Warner Bros? He could probably get the same deal from any other studio or set up his own separate thing like Robert Rodriguez, or get financing from like any bank, or Wall Street guy or Tech investor and still maintain the same level of creative control. Hell he could probably go on Shark Tank with a movie pitch but no script and get $200 million to make a movie.

Edited December 13, 2020 by Kel Varnsen

[starri]

In the next 5-10 years, film production is going to be where publishing is now, and the barrier to entry is going to be so low that that it won't really matter if the studios own theaters or not.  We're already there in terms of film distribution (at least digitally), and as technology gets cheaper, production will catch up.

[Kel Varnsen]

3 hours ago, starri said:

 We're already there in terms of film distribution (at least digitally), and as technology gets cheaper, production will catch up.

Yea I see what you mean there. I have been watching the behind the scenes series for The Mandolorian. They developed this studio called The Volume. Basically it is a room where the walls and ceilings are covered in a super high definition screen. It basic replaces a green screen since instead of a lot of background effects being added later they are just played on the screen while filming. Also it is linked to the camera so when the camera moves the background shifts with it. According to the shows creators it is easier, quicker and cheaper than doing green screen. I am really curious to see how fast this technology takes off and how long before every studio has multiple volumes on their lot and every special effects company also has one they will rent.

 

[Popples]