The Duggalos: Jinger and the Holy Goalie

[heckkitty]

slow clapping the outstanding descriptives for this crowd today though:

3 hours ago, Oldernowiser said:

preening goober

3 hours ago, Oldernowiser said:

Derrick the Hatemonger

(although I initially put these together in my head and remembered it as "Derrick the Hategoober" which, not exactly wrong, really.

and 

7 minutes ago, Ijustwantsomechips said:

sack-riding barnacle Cade

Love this all!

[Churchhoney]

27 minutes ago, EVS said:

I’m curious about the Greek writing on the cover.  We know that the Duggars don’t consider the Greek Orthodox people, along with Catholics, Christians.  Does Jeremy’s church feel differently?  If not, then I think the Greek writing on the cover is hypocritical.  If so, then I think it is funny because it is kind of a slap in the face to the Duggars and their beliefs. 

Well, the New Testament was originally written in a Greek dialect. So the Greek text (in the dialect in which the NT was first written -- Greek has had many dialects over time and across the Mediterranean region) is the original source of at least most of the NT, and that's agreed upon by pretty much everybody, even these nut jobs. When you study the NT as an original-source text -- whether in a religious school or (as I did) in a more secular academic context -- it's that Greek that you read.

Greek was the sort of universal European/Middle Eastern language of scholarship at that point (in the very first decades of the Christian era), just as Latin became the European language of scholarship later. 

Gothard certainly knows that. And the "expository preaching" tradition that Jer's involved in is buttressed by having learned that Greek dialect, for its more academically inclined practitioners. (I doubt Jer'll actually learn much Greek (really learning it would take a lot of time from his selfie posing)-- although I'm sure he'll pretend to and milk every Greek word he knows for all it's worth.) New Testament Greek is much closer to more modern languages like Latin than the Greek of Sophocles or Homer, for example, though. So it's actually pretty easy for modern people to learn by comparison to the Greek of the Iliad or something. I still don;t' think Jer will put himself out. He'll probably photograph a lot of it, though. 

But none of those people agree with the Greek Orthodox theology that grew out of that, just as they don't agree with the Catholic theology that grew out of it (or, indeed, with a lot of Protestant theology either!). 

Edited April 15, 2019 by Churchhoney

[NotFundie]

7 hours ago, EVS said:

I’m curious about the Greek writing on the cover.  We know that the Duggars don’t consider the Greek Orthodox people, along with Catholics, Christians.  Does Jeremy’s church feel differently?  If not, then I think the Greek writing on the cover is hypocritical.  If so, then I think it is funny because it is kind of a slap in the face to the Duggars and their beliefs. 

I don't have any trouble with the Greek writing on the front of the Bible - if Jeremy had actually studied ancient Greek.  Otherwise, it just makes him a poser.  He actually ought to study the language.  Back in college (when dinosaurs roamed the earth) I minored in classical languages and read parts of the Old Testament in Greek.  It's eye-opening to read passages in the original language and see how the translations have sometimes changed the intent.

But these pics of cuff links and sitting by stained glass windows and holding a refurbished Bible with Greek words is all a little too much.  Stop trying so hard to pretend you're a deep thinker, Jer.  Most of us aren't buying it.

Edited April 16, 2019 by NotFundie

[wilsie]

3 hours ago, Oldernowiser said:

Jesus wept.

I find this appropriate for so much of what the Duggars and their friends do.

[EVS]

@Churchhoney, I’m Greek, although I’ve never attended bible study, but I did know about the Bible being written in Ancient Greek. I guess I don’t understand how the fundies can acknowledge that but still disagree with the modern Theology which grew out of those ancient teachings. I’m curious about what kind of twisted logic they use to say that Orthodoxy and Catholism are less accurate or Christian than a relatively new religion like theirs or than the teachings of someone like Goddard. I love that you have insight into this that someone like me could not, and I appreciate your informative posts.

MMV, but I still find it hypocritical to personalize his bible with Greek given their feelings about our Theology.

Edited April 15, 2019 by EVS
Grammar

[fonfereksglen]

7 minutes ago, NotFundie said:

I don't have any trouble with the Greek writing on the front of the Bible - if Jeremy had actually studied ancient Greek.  Otherwise, it just makes him a poser.  He actually ought to study the language.  Back in college (when dinosaurs roamed the earth) I minored in classical languages and read parts of the Old Testament in Greek.  It's eye-opening to read passages in the original language and see how the translations have sometimes changed the intent.

But these pics of cuff links and sitting by stained windows and holding a refurbished Bible with Greek words is all a little too much.  Stop trying so hard to pretend you're a deep thinker, Jer.  Most of us aren't buying it.

A working knowledge of Hebrew and Greek is still a requirement for attending the WELS Seminary.  The language requirement is still important to some Protestant denominations.

[BitterApple]

The Cade and Jer bromance is getting awkward...

[DangerousMinds]

Felicity is dressed for a warm summer day and Jeremy is overdressed. The socks and shoes 🤣🤣🤣! Nope, not a posed picture at all.

Edited April 15, 2019 by DangerousMinds

[GeeGolly]

Although I think Jeremy's post is very Millennium I like his refurbished Bible. If I was a Bible reader I could see myself doing this. There's nothing like the feeling of a leather bound book in your hands. 

[fonfereksglen]

3 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

Felicity is dressed for a warm summer day and Jeremy is overdressed. The socks and shoes 🤣🤣🤣! Nope, not a posed picture at all.

He looks like he forgot to put change in the parking meter!

[bigskygirl]

The deep thinking look while holding his daughter does not work for him. And what is with the shoes and socks. The only good part of the picture is the cute little one he is holding.

[Oldernowiser]

13 minutes ago, bigskygirl said:

The deep thinking look while holding his daughter does not work for him. And what is with the shoes and socks. The only good part of the picture is the cute little one he is holding.

Sometimes I wonder what they would have done with a homely or difficult baby.

[Churchhoney]

2 hours ago, EVS said:

@Churchhoney, I’m Greek, although I’ve never attended bible study, but I did know about the Bible being written in Ancient Greek. I guess I don’t understand how the fundies can acknowledge that but still disagree with the modern Theology which grew out of those ancient teachings. I’m curious about what kind of twisted logic they use to say that Orthodoxy and Catholism are less accurate or Christian than a relatively new religion like theirs or than the teachings of someone like Goddard. I love that you have insight into this that someone like me could not, and I appreciate your informative posts.

MMV, but I still find it hypocritical to personalize his bible with Greek given their feelings about our Theology.

Yeah, I get it completely! I can see why you'd take particular umbrage at it!

I suppose it's so striking because, by now, most Christian groups have been talking about common ground and tolerance of each other for years and years, while these guys are still snarling about everybody else's demonic misbehavior. .... So it's hypocrisy but it's also a heaping helping of epic medieval close-mindedness that most Christians left behind a long time ago ... at least when it comes to other Christians.

Edited April 15, 2019 by Churchhoney

[bigskygirl]

4 minutes ago, Oldernowiser said:

Sometimes I wonder what they would have done with a homely or difficult baby.

Probably be blaming the devil and working hard to get her to go along with what he expects of the poor child. #God'sarmycomesfirst

[Oldernowiser]

1 hour ago, DangerousMinds said:

Felicity is dressed for a warm summer day and Jeremy is overdressed. The socks and shoes 🤣🤣🤣! Nope, not a posed picture at all.

“She just pooped!!! JINGER!!! Quick before she soils my look!!!”

[Lunera]

Jeremy follows a page called 'preachers sneakers' where they post preachers shoes. Maybe he wants to make it on their page with his silly loafers.

[Churchhoney]

29 minutes ago, Lunera said:

Jeremy follows a page called 'preachers sneakers' where they post preachers shoes. Maybe he wants to make it on their page with his silly loafers.

So of course it's about celebrity pastors in very very expensive shoes.... And pants....and belt buckles.....etc. 

So, of course it is.

They pretty much all disgust me. But I'm also about 99 percent sure that Jer hasn't got the game for it. 

"If wishes were horses" and all that. 

[Oldernowiser]

10 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

So of course it's about celebrity pastors in very very expensive shoes.... And pants....and belt buckles.....etc. 

So, of course it is.

They pretty much all disgust me. But I'm also about 99 percent sure that Jer hasn't got the game for it. 

"If wishes were horses" and all that. 

Church, doesn’t it seem like Pastor Poser might be overplaying his hand here?  Very few powerful, vain and older leaders look kindly on greedy, grasping upstarts, as they might be all too eager to stage a coup. Jeremy’s blatant lust for expensive stuff far outweighs any trace we’ve seen of an actual calling.

 If I’m MacArthur, I don’t let the arrogant little shit anywhere near the throne, SM presence be damned.

[DangerousMinds]

9 minutes ago, Oldernowiser said:

Church, doesn’t it seem like Pastor Poser might be overplaying his hand here?  Very few powerful, vain and older leaders look kindly on greedy, grasping upstarts, as they might be all too eager to stage a coup. Jeremy’s blatant lust for expensive stuff far outweighs any trace we’ve seen of an actual calling.

 If I’m MacArthur, I don’t let the arrogant little shit anywhere near the throne, SM presence be damned.

Also, his shoes (and socks and short weird pants) make him look like an idiot!

[farmgal4]

1 minute ago, DangerousMinds said:

Also, his shoes (and socks and short weird pants) make him look like an idiot!

A nerd.  He looks like a nerd.

[Ohiopirate02]

1 hour ago, Lunera said:

Jeremy follows a page called 'preachers sneakers' where they post preachers shoes. Maybe he wants to make it on their page with his silly loafers.

I read an article about this blog, and its sole purpose is to call out these supposed men of God for their vanity.  I guess Jer cannot figure out that the poster is shaming them for the ridiculous amounts of money spent on shoes instead of you know helping the poor.

[Ijustwantsomechips]

Am I the only one who read PreachersNSneakers and immediately thought surely it was a clothing ministry to provide shoes for poor children or to help low-income adults acquire shoes for work?  I guess the actual Christian in me expected preachers to help the least among us.  You know, the poor shall inherit the earth & all that jazz 🙄

[fonfereksglen]

14 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I read an article about this blog, and its sole purpose is to call out these supposed men of God for their vanity.  I guess Jer cannot figure out that the poster is shaming them for the ridiculous amounts of money spent on shoes instead of you know helping the poor.

Jeremy with also never be the next Chad Veach.  JerJer is also clueless about Hillsong.  Can't wait until JerJer names his church Feliciteee.

[Zella]

5 hours ago, BitterApple said:

The Cade and Jer bromance is getting awkward...

I'm getting to the point where if I heard he left Jingle, so he and Cade could run away together, I wouldn't be surprised. LOL

[Churchhoney]

11 hours ago, Oldernowiser said:

Church, doesn’t it seem like Pastor Poser might be overplaying his hand here?  Very few powerful, vain and older leaders look kindly on greedy, grasping upstarts, as they might be all too eager to stage a coup. Jeremy’s blatant lust for expensive stuff far outweighs any trace we’ve seen of an actual calling.

 If I’m MacArthur, I don’t let the arrogant little shit anywhere near the throne, SM presence be damned.

Yeah, I agree.

To the extent that I've had an expectation it's always been that MacArthur and company would look at Jer as a short-term romance that might get them a social-media boost right now, fast and at a low cost.

But when it comes to the pulpit and the long term, I'm sure they have no intention of giving much, if anything, to him. They'll go with someone(s) who has way more preaching talent or who's a relation or other long-term member of their circle -- or, if they can get it, both. Get some major talent in the pulpit and/or keep it all in the family. 

In and of himself, I don't see that mediocre-preacher Jer has much to offer other than his and Jingle's current following. And, as you say, he's awfully transparent in his lusting after stuff, fame, etc. If we see it, then they see it. And nobody respects that. (or, as you said, trusts it)

Even the other lusters don't make a pitiful spectacle of themselves showing that they lust after it.

There's a kind of dumb delusional innocence in all this that sort of makes me feel sorry for him. I think he actually believes he can rise high in some way -- or even in every way. But I'll be really really shocked if  he ends up getting any of the stuff he seems to want . Everybody must see through him. And they'll call the shots. He won't. But at this point he's probably thinking he can. 

Edited April 16, 2019 by Churchhoney

[DangerousMinds]

59 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I read an article about this blog, and its sole purpose is to call out these supposed men of God for their vanity.  I guess Jer cannot figure out that the poster is shaming them for the ridiculous amounts of money spent on shoes instead of you know helping the poor.

Has Jeremy EVER once mentioned helping the less fortunate?

[Sew Sumi]

Pride goeth before the fall. 

[wilsie]

6 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

Has Jeremy EVER once mentioned helping the less fortunate?

I don't remember ever seeing it mentioned and I can't imagine if he did that it would have been documented by at least Jingle since they put everything positive on sm.  

[Churchhoney]

29 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

Has Jeremy EVER once mentioned helping the less fortunate?

Well, as it says on his new refurbed bible-- This is the kind of biblical thing he's interested in -- 

2 Timothy 3:16 New International Version (NIV)  "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness."

This whole mob of people seem kind of obsessed with the negative to me -- fearful, grasping at what they can get, judgmental, shutting stuff out, isolating themselves, anxious about slipping into hell, worried about getting tempted or contaminated by somebody, eager to harangue and push everybody back on some narrow path.

They don't seem to have room for positive thoughts, feelings or actions, for the most part. He wants to be busy rebuking people not being nice to them. 

He's got that old Gothard spirit, just like the rest of them. Hallelujah! 

[Temperance]

I was going to post about PreachersNSneakers. It's an Instagram account that takes pictures of preachers from the social media and breaks down how much various items of their clothing cost. The guy (whose account it is) then wants people to make their own decisions, but it's definitely about calling out preachers for spending large amounts of money on various items of clothing, especially shoes. Odd that Jeremy follows them. 

Edited April 16, 2019 by Temperance
clarity

[EVS]

2 hours ago, farmgal4 said:

A nerd.  He looks like a nerd.

Fundie Urkel

[Oldernowiser]

Okay, my religious training ended at roughly age eight, so what do I know.

But do any of their Bibles include the New Testament? IIRC, Jesus wasn’t real big on rebuking, correcting or telling others how they’re doing life wrong. 

Yet that’s all this flavor of Christians seem to care about. It’s perverse.

[Christina87]

I don't really understand...Jeremy is at least a decent looking guy, depending on taste. He doesn't have to do all this posing to look "good." If he just posted normal pictures, people would think he was hot, but these make people rightly call him pretentious. 

Also, to everyone who is not a millennial...please, please don't think Jeremy represents us! We are not like this, I promise! He is an outlier amongst millennials, I swear. I'll even admit more of us than I'd prefer to say do the whole Jessa duck face thing, but 99% of us do NOT constantly try "artsy" poses!

[Totally]

Just when I think he can’t get any wankier...he proves me wrong again 

I just can’t cope with his vanity and complete tosserness

[JoanArc]

Quote

Jeremy follows a page called 'preachers sneakers' where they post preachers shoes.

Foot fetish? 😉 PreachersNSneakers is still a better name than Citrus and Lemon.

9 hours ago, Zella said:

I'm getting to the point where if I heard he left Jingle, so he and Cade could run away together, I wouldn't be surprised. LOL

Maybe this is why Jingle's only had one baby.

[Churchhoney]

9 hours ago, Oldernowiser said:

Okay, my religious training ended at roughly age eight, so what do I know.

But do any of their Bibles include the New Testament? IIRC, Jesus wasn’t real big on rebuking, correcting or telling others how they’re doing life wrong. 

Yet that’s all this flavor of Christians seem to care about. It’s perverse.

Well, as I get older and wearier of some of the stuff in this world, I'm beginning to think that our overall attitudes toward life may be much more predetermined by our internal wiring than we'd like to think. 

Seems to me that everything -- and especially the big, all-encompassing things like religion or politics -- roughly breaks down into a battle between two groups of people: a more positive sunny let's-see-how-we-can-move-forward-for-everybody crowd and a gloomier its's-all-wrong-we-all-may-be-doomed-I-don't-trust-anybody group. (obviously this is oversimplified, but still....)

And the bible's big and complicated enough so you can easily find backup for either of these views while ignoring stuff that would contradict the one you're drawn toward. It's like a Rorschach test for your basic worldview. 

So in Christianity, you end up with a "God is love' group versus a"God is a jealous and angry god" group. These guys are all in the second group religiously (and they're also in the angry, gloomy political group). And I've begun to chalk it up to their inborn personalities/characters/dominant brainwiring being that way.

There has been some research in the past couple decades suggesting that maybe these points of view are to some extent reflective of particular brain wiring. .... This is an unpopular view with a lot of scholars, though.

I've discussed it a few times with various scholars of politics and government who are also progressives at heart. And, boy, there is strong resistance to the idea that we may be stuck with having a large chunk of the population whose biologies strongly predispose them to being angry grumps. Suggests that many of our political and religious debates could be even more impervious to reason -- and insoluble -- than they already seem to be.

I can see why that's a horrifying thought to people who spend their time trying to figure out pathways to make the world more harmonious. But when I think about the divides -- like this apparent one among Christians -- the "it's-mostly-a-matter-of-the-personality-you've-got" idea makes more and more sense to me. .... 

Edited April 16, 2019 by Churchhoney

[GeeGolly]

53 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

Well, as I get older and wearier of some of the stuff in this world, I'm beginning to think that our overall attitudes toward life may be much more predetermined by our internal wiring than we'd like to think. 

Seems to me that everything -- and especially the big, all-encompassing things like religion or politics -- roughly breaks down into a battle between two groups of people: a more positive sunny let's-see-how-we-can-move-forward-for-everybody crowd and a gloomier its's-all-wrong-we-all-may-be-doomed-I-don't-trust-anybody group. (obviously this is oversimplified, but still....)

And the bible's big and complicated enough so you can easily find backup for either of these views while ignoring stuff that would contradict the one you're drawn toward. It's like a Rorschach test for your basic worldview. 

So in Christianity, you end up with a "God is love' group versus a"God is a jealous and angry god" group. These guys are all in the second group religiously (and they're also in the angry, gloomy political group). And I've begun to chalk it up to their inborn personalities/characters/dominant brainwiring being that way.

There has been some research in the past couple decades suggesting that maybe these points of view are to some extent reflective of particular brain wiring. .... This is an unpopular view with a lot of scholars, though.

I've discussed it a few times with various scholars of politics and government who are also progressives at heart. And, boy, there is strong resistance to the idea that we may be stuck with having a large chunk of the population whose biologies strongly predispose them to being angry grumps. Suggests that many of our political and religious debates could be even more impervious to reason -- and insoluble -- than they already seem to be.

I can see why that's a horrifying thought to people who spend their time trying to figure out pathways to make the world more harmonious. But when I think about the divides -- like this apparent one among Christians -- the "it's-mostly-a-matter-of-the-personality-you've-got" idea makes more and more sense to me. .... 

Nature vs nurture. 

Are you talking about adults finding or switching religions later in life? Like someone raised with an all loving God and decides as an adult that God is punishing. Is that typical? Where someone takes a complete 180?

I really think parents and churches are more of an influence of how one interprets religion than genetics. Usually a human's first exposure to spirituality is from parents and most children take it at face value until critical thinking kicks in. Then typically it seems more of a time to decide if there's a buy-in or not. How deeply to believe, or to believe at all.

Of course if disposition is primarily genetic, then I guess it's likely grumpy parents will have grumpy offspring.

[leighdear]

I think it's a hilarious site.  I check out all kinds of VERY expensive, and way-beyond-my-wallet designer lines to see what's new & on trend.   BFD that Jerm likes his accessories and his looks.  He puts it all out there, he's not hiding anything from anybody.  

It's not as if his wife & child are going hungry, are dirty or clothed poorly.  He takes care of his own.  

And he amuses me.  

[SunnyBeBe]

1 hour ago, Churchhoney said:

Well, as I get older and wearier of some of the stuff in this world, I'm beginning to think that our overall attitudes toward life may be much more predetermined by our internal wiring than we'd like to think. 

Seems to me that everything -- and especially the big, all-encompassing things like religion or politics -- roughly breaks down into a battle between two groups of people: a more positive sunny let's-see-how-we-can-move-forward-for-everybody crowd and a gloomier its's-all-wrong-we-all-may-be-doomed-I-don't-trust-anybody group. (obviously this is oversimplified, but still....)

And the bible's big and complicated enough so you can easily find backup for either of these views while ignoring stuff that would contradict the one you're drawn toward. It's like a Rorschach test for your basic worldview. 

So in Christianity, you end up with a "God is love' group versus a"God is a jealous and angry god" group. These guys are all in the second group religiously (and they're also in the angry, gloomy political group). And I've begun to chalk it up to their inborn personalities/characters/dominant brainwiring being that way.

There has been some research in the past couple decades suggesting that maybe these points of view are to some extent reflective of particular brain wiring. .... This is an unpopular view with a lot of scholars, though.

I've discussed it a few times with various scholars of politics and government who are also progressives at heart. And, boy, there is strong resistance to the idea that we may be stuck with having a large chunk of the population whose biologies strongly predispose them to being angry grumps. Suggests that many of our political and religious debates could be even more impervious to reason -- and insoluble -- than they already seem to be.

I can see why that's a horrifying thought to people who spend their time trying to figure out pathways to make the world more harmonious. But when I think about the divides -- like this apparent one among Christians -- the "it's-mostly-a-matter-of-the-personality-you've-got" idea makes more and more sense to me. .... 

Your theory is interesting.  I've tried to figure it out since I was a kid. As I sat in a fundie congregation (at age 10) wondering what was WRONG with those people, my parents got caught up in it.  They actually joined in with this way of thinking. I could barely believe it. I was able to keep my own beliefs, sanity and independent thoughts as I grew up and was able to escape with only minor damage. (Well, that's what I've convinced myself. lol)  I do have a huge place in my heart for the children who grow up in cults and/or super restrictive teachings.  Some are damaged and not able to recover.  Sometimes, the damage is obvious, other times, it's not. 

Edited April 16, 2019 by SunnyBeBe

[Ohiopirate02]

36 minutes ago, leighdear said:

I think it's a hilarious site.  I check out all kinds of VERY expensive, and way-beyond-my-wallet designer lines to see what's new & on trend.   BFD that Jerm likes his accessories and his looks.  He puts it all out there, he's not hiding anything from anybody.  

It's not as if his wife & child are going hungry, are dirty or clothed poorly.  He takes care of his own.  

And he amuses me.  

It really depends on where the money comes from--personal wealth, gifts or the collection plate.  If the preacher wearing $1000 sneakers or other expensive designer goods constantly preaches about the need for parishioners to tithe the biblical 10%  then I have a problem.   My contributions to my church should not be used to enrich a man or to keep him in luxuries. 

[Churchhoney]

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

Nature vs nurture. 

Are you talking about adults finding or switching religions later in life? Like someone raised with an all loving God and decides as an adult that God is punishing. Is that typical? Where someone takes a complete 180?

I really think parents and churches are more of an influence of how one interprets religion than genetics. Usually a human's first exposure to spirituality is from parents and most children take it at face value until critical thinking kicks in. Then typically it seems more of a time to decide if there's a buy-in or not. How deeply to believe, or to believe at all.

Of course if disposition is primarily genetic, then I guess it's likely grumpy parents will have grumpy offspring.

Well, you know that I'm a huge believer in early experiences also having a big effect -- including by rewiring the brain! Hence, all my usual (and endless) blather about the brainwashing of these cultists' kids! 

So yeah, this is something I've been wondering about when it comes to the puzzle of people switching to something kind of extreme  -- sometimes as if drawn to it like a magnet. ....

(I started thinking about it originally about 15 years ago, actually, when I was doing a lot of stuff related to political polarization and I started seeing some neuroscience types talking about this. And, as I mentioned -- political scientists I talked to hated the idea! They want to think that discussions of governing principles have a shot at changing people's minds! )

I know that sometimes these adult or young-adult switches happen as apparent responses to some kind of traumatizing event. But that doesn't always seem to be the case. Sometimes it seems that people see a certain philosophy and just naturally gravitate toward it ... and their attraction doesn't seem to have anything to do with events or teaching or acclimatization.    

Obviously all your experience plays a role. But there seem to be some other motivating force in some cases, at least, and by and large it's not logic! And personality traits that seem largely beyond our control play a big role in many things in our lives, do they not?

And we know that we do have different personalities. And to some extent, at least, we're born with those. (although obviously the genetics of this is mega-mega-mega-complicated)............

So... wouldn't certain kinds of personalities just tend to fall in naturally with certain philosophies and theologies and certain points of view? I'd think they would ... I'm not positing some one-to-one relationship here. I'm just saying that I wonder whether personality traits that we really have little to no control over don't play a much stronger role in this kind of "choice" than we acknowledge, at least for some people....

Anyway, yeah .... What you said!

Edited April 16, 2019 by Churchhoney

[SunnyBeBe]

37 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

Well, you know that I'm a huge believer in early experiences also having a big effect -- including by rewiring the brain! Hence, all my usual (and endless) blather about the brainwashing of these cultists' kids! 

So yeah, this is something I've been wondering about when it comes to the puzzle of people switching to something kind of extreme  -- sometimes as if drawn to it like a magnet. ....

(I started thinking about it originally about 15 years ago, actually, when I was doing a lot of stuff related to political polarization and I started seeing some neuroscience types talking about this. And, as I mentioned -- political scientists I talked to hated the idea! They want to think that discussions of governing principles have a shot at changing people's minds! )

I know that sometimes these adult or young-adult switches happen as apparent responses to some kind of traumatizing event. But that doesn't always seem to be the case. Sometimes it seems that people see a certain philosophy and just naturally gravitate toward it ... and their attraction doesn't seem to have anything to do with events or teaching or acclimatization.    

Obviously all your experience plays a role. But there seem to be some other motivating force in some cases, at least, and by and large it's not logic! And personality traits that seem largely beyond our control play a big role in many things in our lives, do they not?

And we know that we do have different personalities. And to some extent, at least, we're born with those. (although obviously the genetics of this is mega-mega-mega-complicated)............

So... wouldn't certain kinds of personalities just tend to fall in naturally with certain philosophies and theologies and certain points of view? I'd think they would ... I'm not positing some one-to-one relationship here. I'm just saying that I wonder whether personality traits that we really have little to no control over don't play a much stronger role in this kind of "choice" than we acknowledge, at least for some people....

Anyway, yeah .... What you said!

My grandparents taught me from an early age, like birth, that I was special.  That I should stand up for myself and not let anyone treat me poorly.  It stuck and I took it with me. So, a controlling group who purports to spread spiritual teachings with fear and intimidation came along........I instantly felt that little thing that says NOOOOO.  Not sure why my parents didn't feel it.  But, if I had not had those good teachings upfront, then, God forbid, what would have happened.  Maybe, that's why there are so many insecure people who make themselves feel better about their spirituality by putting others down.  That's big with low information groups and individuals, imo. 

[leighdear]

2 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

It really depends on where the money comes from

Exactly.  Doubtful Jerm has been stealing from the collection plate, as he & Jing are a far cry from Jim & Tammy Faye.  But there's no telling.  I didn't think his parishoners were able to pony up big donations, and he hasn't been doing it long. 

Until they volunteer where their money comes from, it's all just speculation.  

Edited April 16, 2019 by leighdear

[Oldernowiser]

19 minutes ago, leighdear said:

Exactly.  Doubtful Jerm has been stealing from the collection plate, as he & Jing are a far cry from Jim & Tammy Faye.  But there's no telling.  I didn't think his parishoners were able to pony up big donations, and he hasn't been doing it long. 

Until they volunteer where their money comes from, it's all just speculation.  

TLC. 

[Abmis]

Jeremy is starting to remind me of Simon van Kempen.  It's only a matter of time before he starts posing against lamp posts, making eye contact at the opera, and forcing Felicity to order her lemonade in French. 

Edited April 16, 2019 by Abmis
spelling

[mythoughtis]

14 hours ago, Oldernowiser said:

Okay, my religious training ended at roughly age eight, so what do I know.

But do any of their Bibles include the New Testament? IIRC, Jesus wasn’t real big on rebuking, correcting or telling others how they’re doing life wrong. 

Yet that’s all this flavor of Christians seem to care about. It’s perverse.

Winner for the day! 

They totally overlook grace and cling to legalistic rules.   They advertise their prayer closets.  

They remind me of the churches that show up in early  TV Westerns where the town busy bodies gossiped about the ones not in church on Sunday.   Or Pilgrims who made sinners wear scarlet letters because it wasn’t  enough to confess your sins to God. Everyone else had to condemn you too. 

[Temperance]

8 hours ago, JoanArc said:

Foot fetish? 😉 PreachersNSneakers is still a better name than Citrus and Lemon.

It's not a store selling things like Citrus and Lemons. It's  an Instagram account that calls out pastors for expensive footwear and designer by taking pictures from their social media and showing how much the clothes cost. 

[Churchhoney]

Just noticed that big brother Charles Vuolo's first venture into full-fledged writing and directing is now out. 

Here's his IMDB bio -- the film is Lupe and he's been working on it for a while. - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm3252101/?ref_=tt_ov_dr

And -- very interesting for the namesake of an ardent conservative-evangelical preacher with a complementarian bent -- the main character is an immigrant transgender woman transitioning.  It also deals with issues of immigration and poverty. ;  )           The family dynamic here has got to be interesting, to say the least, with Jer ranting in sermons about the evils of Jazz and her family while his brother has been working for a few years now on this film. The Vuolo family seems to hang out together some, regardless of these differences, so I can only hope that the open-mindedness gets stronger than the close-mindedness over time .... (I'd almost hope that Jer's anti-gay sermonizing is phony....except I don't like the idea of people lying in the pulpit. Plus, if you had a different view why wouldn't you just hang out with different Christians? It's baffling to me.)  Anyway, as with the [elder]  Seewalds, some things may be pushing the Vuolo family in a new direction. 

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7110484/?ref_=nm_flmg_wr_1

It's getting very respectful views. The Deadline review has a clip also.

https://deadline.com/2019/02/lupe-clip-rafael-albarran-lucerys-medina-andre-phillips-charles-vuolo-1202559805/

https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2019/03/10/lupe-addresses-transitions-community/

https://el-observador.com/2019/03/22/cinequest-film-review-lupe/?fbclid=IwAR35UxquUBMK4GgMZaVTKWNzQooGxSSq6aLsKM3Q-KlMGs4iWFAISpBMtsc

Quotes from Charles and his co-director -- -

“It speaks beyond dating issues,” O’Brien says, adding that the film addresses everyday interactions people in transition deal with. “When someone sees you in a different scenario, how do you handle it? … How do you keep relationships going when you’re transgender?”

The film also addresses socioeconomic issues.

“I have a beautiful scene with two friends,” says Albarran, “one who has resources for a transition and my character, who doesn’t.”

Co-director Charles Vuolo says it was cast and crew members who brought many of these issues to his and Phillips’ attention.

“We didn’t know how to have that conversation, to be honest,” Vuolo adds.

“Without that level of development, we never would have gotten into the topics we were able to get into,” Phillips says.

“Lupe” plays March 10 at 8 p.m. at Century 20 Redwood City, 825 Middlefield Road, Redwood City. The film has two more screenings at the Cinequest Film and Creativity Festival, which runs through March 17. For showtimes and tickets, visit https://www.cinequest.org.

Discussion of the research Charles and his co-director did with transgender folks to make the film -- 

While Lupe is a film about transgender lives it is also a film that asks the universal question: where I fit in the world? Whether you are cisgender or transgender, heterosexual, gay or bisexual, we are all trying to fit in, trying to find our true identity and be accepted for who we really are, even though that may come at a cost – the possible loss of family, friends or lovers.

The film is true to the subject matter because directors Andre and Charles sought the advice and counsel of Kerry Michelle O’Brien, an active advocate for the LGBTQ community, credited Executive Producer on the film, and transgender herself. In addition, Celia Harrison, who portrayed Lana, is a transgender artist who advised the filmmakers resulting in the film being sensitive to the themes of gender identity.

Kerry summed up best the message of the film when asked what audiences should take away from watching Rafael’s coming out story, “That you are allowed to love yourself no matter who you are.”, she said.

[JoanArc]

12 minutes ago, Temperance said:

It's not a store selling things like Citrus and Lemons. It's  an Instagram account that calls out pastors for expensive footwear and designer by taking pictures from their social media and showing how much the clothes cost. 

Yes. I read the first post. It was a joke!

[Lunera]

Jeremy only has 2 Apps on his phone and no social media? Sure, Jan.

I listened to a piece of it before I got bored. They kept going on about Christ put him in my heart and Jeremy prayed God would put him in her heart. He wanted a wife that loved Christ more than him....

Like, just freaking say you had the hots for each other and were ready to bang.

Also, Jeremy say he had been looking for a wife because he felt out of place and had many temptations being a young pastor without a wife.