S03.E06: No Beast So Fierce

[Tara Ariano]

Quote

Vanessa turns to old friend Ferdinand Lyle for help, who introduces her to Catriona Hartdegen, a new ally. Meanwhile, Lily, Dorian and Justine put their plan in motion; and Ethan, Sir Malcolm and Hecate arrive at Jarod Talbot's ranch.

[Margherita Erdman]

Mr. Lyle returns, yay! Never go away again please. I need a Mr. Lyle in my life: to tell me the truth and then provide a shoulder and hanky for sobbing, no matter how greasy my hair and face might be by then, when I am letting myself and the world around me go to shit because I have fallen so far into myself I can no longer see what's important; so practical, to find me a good therapist; to help fight deadly covens pledged to deliver my soul to Lucifer, of course, that should go without saying; oh and to escort me to beautiful balls and dance elegantly right up until I faint in the throes of a vision of the ballroom being overtaken by waves and waves of blood.

The posted synopsis doesn't seem right. Do you think it means to refer to the arrival at the ranch of the sheriff/marshal (not sure exactly what his office is — maybe both so he'll have both territorial  and federal authority?) along with Inspector Rusk?

i confess I have an affection for the character of Inspector Rusk — I find him fascinating and well-drawn in what screen time he has, a wholly believable badass of rare tenacity and wonderfully perceptive about what truths may be found beneath surface appearances — I have been secretly hoping there will be some turn of events causing him to join forces with our merry band of misfits rather than continuing as antagonist. Because otherwise someone will need to kill him, and sooner rather than later.

Edited June 4, 2016 by Margherita Erdman
spelling gud

[sjohnson]

^^^I nominate Rusk to continue as the antagonist who kills off the superfluous characters, Dorian, Victor and yes, Ethan. 

PS As we see, not to be. Alas!

Edited June 6, 2016 by sjohnson

[raven]

Nooo Mr. Lyle don't go to Egypt!  We don't need any new characters :((  please stay :((  do not like.  New character is OK but not if it means losing Mr. Lyle.

That's really my only complaint.  Let's all have dinner at the Talbots!  Seriously, what did that "reckoning" guy think was going to happen?  I laughed when Ethan's dad shot him.   I hope Inspector Rusk isn't dead.  I like him, he can follow the team around the world or whatever.  He's too much of a one-arm badass to go out like that.  Horses upset, wolf howling - so is Kaetenay a wolfman too?  Doesn't seem like we'll get an answer this season.  Not sorry to lose Hecate.

Aw Vanessa, getting vulnerable with the wrong guy.  Dracula is playing it smart but he's so totally doomed.  I enjoyed Vanessa having a chat with the doctor. 

Uh oh Dorian is getting annoyed with the situation.  So the women don't want the man telling them what to do but they'll happily spend his money?  Dorian's immortal and won't be disrespected in his own house hee hee.   Trouble is brewing in paradise. 

So John Clare is scary looking again.  That was a beautiful shot of him under the arch. 

So the West is wrapped up and everyone can head on back to London.  Sir Malcolm shooting Mr. Talbot is my fave scene of the season so far. 

Edited June 6, 2016 by raven

[Primetimer]

Amid a lot of male violence this week, there's nothing more explosive on Penny Dreadful than its feminism.

View the full article

[WaltersHair]

YES. If you sleep with a protagonist, you die. Dr. Sweet you're next. I wish. I fear we're going to have to look at that man for the rest of the season. Meh.

[BuddhaBelly]

As someone who has waited for Ethan and Vanessa to get together since episode 1, I feel betrayed.

Also, now that Daddy Talbot is dead, I fully stand by my original thought that Ethan's backstory makes no sense and they've borderline ruined him for me. 

I need more Jekyll. Look at Dorian getting a storyline but it's to be dumb and follow equally dumb Victor. 

[TrueMyth]

1 hour ago, raven said:

Nooo Mr. Lyle don't go to Egypt!  We don't need any new characters :((  please stay :((  do not like.  New character is OK but not if it means losing Mr. Lyle.

My husband's prediction/hope is that Mr. Lyle returns next season with the Mummy in tow.

I liked the new character, but am racking my brain trying to figure out what story she might be related to or if she's a totally new character.

I was really happy with this episode, though everything moved so fast.  I was very surprised to see the end title screen!  But I was crying out "no, no, no, no!" through Vanessa's whole scene with Dr. Sweet.

[Pogojoco]

Goodbye Hecate! I won't miss you at all. 

That dinner was crazy and made no sense. Can everyone go back to England now? Vannessa is lonely and making bad life choices. 

Edited June 6, 2016 by Pogojoco

[Tech Noir]

I love this show but am a little critical of the writing this season. It feels a bit rushed. I know it's there's only 3 episodes left but I when Dr Sweet told Vanessa he loved her I yelled "WHAT. TOO SOON, DRACULA, TOO SOON!". I was a little surprised that they did it right there on the floor, but it's Vanessa and she was into it so there you go. Poor Vanessa. But also, get it, gurl.

Byeeee Hecate. No tears for you.

Who is this new woman Catronia? Why is she wearing so much make-up? Is there a Sephora around somewhere (in Dorian's mansion maybe)? I love makeup and all but hers was so modern looking it pulled me out of the story a bit. I love the idea of Vanessa having more women companions.

There is a Robert Louis Stevenson called Catronia. I haven't read it but it was published in 1893 so the timing is right. OR (this is a stretch but) ... in HG Wells novel "The Time Machine" the protagonist has no name but in the 2002 movie they gave him the name "Hartdegen". Coincidence? Or maybe just the writers playing with us because they know fans google everything? 

IDK but if they bring time travel into this show I will lose my shit because I am obsessed with the idea.

[Glade]

This season is really dragging for me.  As far as I'm concerned, the entire plot with Ethan in America thus far could have been wrapped up in 1-2 episodes, we didn't need to take up most of the season with him walking through the desert leading up to a pretty obvious conclusion at his father's house.  I hope we won't be subjected to endless scenes of the return journey now.  Though I suspect that the cliche twist that someone--Hecate or the scummy inspector--actually survived will be used.   The moments that Ethan and Vanessa have shared with their evil paramours will never match the power of seeing the two of them together.   For that matter, Dracula will never hold a candle to the raw eroticism of Dorian/Vanessa.  The actor playing Dracula here definitely isn't Gary Oldman, either.

It's heartbreaking that Lyle is leaving, he is an indispensable part of their fractured group.  He's been woefully underused this season, but does the actor not want to stay around?  I can't believe he's been replaced by fucking La Feme Nakita, who looks like she stepped straight out of a comic book.   I also rolled my eyes when Vanessa's therapist a) shared a pretty inappropriate personal detail about herself to communicate what exactly?  "You don't need a support system, friends just beat you up anyway!"  Neither she nor Lyle have checked up on Victor all season, which is equally tragic. 

The only story I actually cared deeply about this episode was John Claire's.  And there wasn't nearly enough of it!  What he needs is a friend, who could approach his former family first and explain to them some believable story of how he was brought back to life and why he looks the way he does now. 

I'm glad Dorian is starting to lose his patience with Lily and the thirteen year old girl she's taken as her lover and projected all of her own emotions onto.  Sometimes you just want a quiet night at home without Lily's repetitive monologues or her horde.  I really wanted Dorian to lean in and kiss Victor at the doorway!  It looks like he might have wanted to beat Dr. Jeckyl to it.  Could the serum change someone's sexuality from straight to gay? 

There are way too many carrots dangling at this point. 

[Margherita Erdman]

Other things to say later when my thoughts have crystallized into coherent conversation, but the inner 13-year-old will out (mine is far more immature and giggly than the preternaturally, tragically worldly Justine) and can't resist on this one right away:

On June 5, 2016 at 11:13 PM, Glade said:

[snip]

Could the serum change someone's sexuality from straight to gay? 

There are way too many carrots dangling at this point. 

Sooo very many dangling carrots on this show. Hee.

Edited June 7, 2016 by Margherita Erdman
into, not info

[Raachel2008]

4 hours ago, BuddhaBelly said:

Also, now that Daddy Talbot is dead, I fully stand by my original thought that Ethan's backstory makes no sense and they've borderline ruined him for me. 

 

It makes some sense, but then it doesn't, and for me the biggest wtf is why I'm supposed to see Kaetenay as a 'good' guy or a father figure to Ethan. The guy slaughtered his mother and siblings, so what gives? Not to mention it is just lame that we still don't know how Ethan got turned into a werewolf.

Ten bucks say somewhere in the future Vanessa and Catrona will make out.

John Clare and his son, what a fantastic scene, and the acting!

[Ravenya003]

Oh, this show and its anti-climactic deaths. Malcolm shooting Jared in the head was fun, but is that really it for Hecate and Rusk? Sure, they were never hugely important characters in the first place, but we've spent the better part of two seasons with them now. 

The most exciting thing in this episode was Vanessa talking to a woman her own age. 

I believe Lyle's actor was heavily involved with some sort of theatre at the time of shooting, which severely limited his screen-time. I'm not too concerned about the scattered story-lines, but I am getting worried that we're this close to the finish line and there's no talk of a fourth season. I mean, it's okay to have far-flung stories, but only if there's time to finish them properly. No way is all this going to be wrapped up satisfactorily in only three episodes. We still don't know how Ethan became a werewolf, how John Clare died, how Dracula kidnapped Mina in the first place, how Dorian became immortal. We still haven't seen Mr Hyde, or an Ethan/Brona reunion, or a Vanessa/John Clare reunion, or any resolution to the whole Vanessa-is-Amunet business.

I'll admit I'm getting a little nervous as to whether or not we'll get a decent finish. And it feels like John Logan is setting up for a fourth season - unless that talk of Lyle going to Cairo to see the tomb of Imhotep was just an in-joke. 

[sjohnson]

Dorian became immortal through the Power of Art. The painter Basil Hallward's passion for Dorian enabled him to capture Dorian's soul and put it on canvas. Since it is the soul that really matters, the painting shows the ravages of time, while the mere body left behind, does not. 

If I remember correctly, the novel is reserved about giving ages, but Dorian is a boy, probably meaning anywhere from fifteen to twenty (twenty one being the legal age of majority in a period where that mattered.) Reeve Carney is too old, strictly speaking, but casting age appropriate would be...inflammatory. If Dorian had been a female he would have been automatically enrolled into Lily's charm school. Fortunately in PD feminism this is irrelevant. That means we don't need to see Ferdinand Lyle as a villain who should be slaughtered for a feel good moment. 

PS Frankenstein as the villain because he's unforgivably MRA fails not just because it lets him off the hook for things like epic fail playing God of a new race. It fails because Lily does need to be cured. The feminism coming out of her mouth is a horror show caricature.
 

Edited June 6, 2016 by sjohnson

[Broderbits]

Catriona in the Stevenson novel is the granddaughter of Rob Roy, so that might explain her fencing skill.

As soon as I heard Mr. Lyle mention Imhotep, bells went off. Surely next season he will be back with The Mummy!

Lily, to me, has turned into Aileen Wuornos. It's perfectly understandable that women so horribly abused would strike back so ruthlessly given their lack of choices.

[BuddhaBelly]

If they reveal Catriona as a displaced woman from the 21st century, I would not be displeased. There was just something so modern about her looks that it through me out of the story and I'm hoping that it was deliberate.

Edited June 6, 2016 by BuddhaBelly

[Waldo13]

3 hours ago, sjohnson said:

Dorian became immortal through the Power of Art. The painter Basil Hallward's passion for Dorian enabled him to capture Dorian's soul and put it on canvas. Since it is the soul that really matters, the painting shows the ravages of time, while the mere body left behind, does not. 

If I remember correctly, the novel is reserved about giving ages, but Dorian is a boy, probably meaning anywhere from fifteen to twenty (twenty one being the legal age of majority in a period where that mattered.) Reeve Carney is too old, strictly speaking, but casting age appropriate would be...inflammatory. If Dorian had been a female he would have been automatically enrolled into Lily's charm school. Fortunately in PD feminism this is irrelevant. That means we don't need to see Ferdinand Lyle as a villain who should be slaughtered for a feel good moment. 

PS Frankenstein as the villain because he's unforgivably MRA fails not just because it lets him off the hook for things like epic fail playing God of a new race. It fails because Lily does need to be cured. The feminism coming out of her mouth is a horror show caricature.
 

Dorian is not really immortal.  If the painting is destroyed, according to the novel, he will die.  He better watch out that Justine doesn't find out his secret. Justine has the hots for Lily more than Victor does.  After Lily's speech, I also think that Lily has the hots for Justine. Because Lily hates men, Dorian is just a means to the end for her.

Penny Dreadful is so well written and so well acted, I find it very compelling keeping my viewing laser focused.  I said it before and I'll say it again, I don't know how, on God's green earth, Penny Dreadful doesn't receive more, if any, Emmy awards or nominations.  The work of Rory is amazing as is Eva.   JH, BP and TD, never came to mind as award caliber actors, but I give them kudos for really stepping up their game.  

[luckyroll3]

Im-ho-tep!  I couldn't stop saying it that way to the TV after he was mentioned.  

I love how Malcolm had no time for any of their shit!  He doesn't want to listen to you guilt your son.  He doesn't care to eat your food after you threatened all their lives and killed a guest at the table.  And he surely don't want to hear you mouth off about what a pussy your son is and how you will follow and haunt him after said son just spared your life.  Don't ever stop being a bad ass motherfucker,  Malcolm.  You are awesome!

Glad Hecate is gone, although I quite enjoyed her, "oh ok,  so we are gonna say grace now," look when Ethan started praying.

Mini Brohna really needs to go now too.  I'm indifferent on Dorian, but she can't be all up in his house eating his food, drinking his wine, wearing clothes he probably bought, and dancing to his music all while threatening to kill him.  That being said, why was Dorian wearing a robe in the ballroom?

Victor's plan was really dumb.  

Absolutely loved Vanessa's hair.  Not sure if it was cut or just tucked under, but it looked great on her. 

Edited June 7, 2016 by luckyroll3
Spell-check keeps changing my curse words to regular ones. SMDH!

[attica]

You know, for a septuagenarian, Dalton has got it goin' on. His scenes with Cox have all been crackling good fun; I'm glad he was the one to deliver the coup.

The actor playing Catriona is named Perdita Weeks, which I think is a lovely name. Perdita=lost little one, which seems apt for a show like this.

OF COURSE Patti Lupone killed her NY hubby with a cleaver. I wouldn't have it any other way. Except maybe if she baked him into pies on Fleet Street. 

[WaltersHair]

Quote

Dorian is not really immortal.  If the painting is destroyed, according to the novel, he will die.  He better watch out that Justine doesn't find out his secret.

Dorian says he's an immortal in this episode so I wonder if the show is changing that bit or he's simply clueless/fearless about what it would mean for the painting to be found and destroyed.

I don't even like Dorian, but no way should Mini-Brona think she's better or above him. I think he'll have to kill her at some point and the favor Frankenstein delivers involves a lightning storm and icetub.

Vanessa is being criminally stupid about Dr. Sweet. I mean deaf, blind and senseless to what he is. What happened to her psychic abilities? When the time comes, I may have to route for him. Maybe.

Edited June 7, 2016 by WaltersHair

[ganesh]

On 6/4/2016 at 3:45 AM, Margherita Erdman said:

I have been secretly hoping there will be some turn of events causing him to join forces with our merry band of misfits rather than continuing as antagonist.

He's really the only person who has been around for so long that's not the main group. This was the first time he's 'seen' something iirc, so it's not crazy that he'd eventually be like, 'ok, I'm going in with you all, this is nuts.' You have to think it's going to take everyone to beat Dracula.

 

23 hours ago, raven said:

Sir Malcolm shooting Mr. Talbot is my fave scene of the season so far. 

Please tell me someone else lol'd. "I am so over this family bickering." BOOM

 

18 hours ago, Raachel2008 said:

Ten bucks say somewhere in the future Vanessa and Catrona will make out.

Like, make that next week. No one makes fuck-me-eyes like Eva Green. swooooon

 

9 hours ago, Waldo13 said:

Because Lily hates men, Dorian is just a means to the end for her.

If Dorian is smart, he'll just ride this out. They'll all die before he does. It's like, "ok, this is getting way too much now." Having him call out Victor on paying him back certainly has to pay off at some point. 

[msbeesknees]

22 hours ago, Tech Noir said:

Who is this new woman Catronia? Why is she wearing so much make-up? Is there a Sephora around somewhere

Right!? I was like "save the smokey eye for the whores, girl." Even the axe-murdering psychiatrist had on a smokey eye. Sorry, makeup is kind of my thing.

[Margherita Erdman]

6 hours ago, ganesh said:

Please tell me someone else lol'd. "I am so over this family bickering." BOOM

Like, make that next week. No one makes fuck-me-eyes like Eva Green. swooooon

Having [Dorian] call out Victor on paying him back certainly has to pay off at some point. 

I totally snickered when Sir Malcolm stopped Talbot's long-winded threats about hunting his son from the grave with a single well-placed shot.

I also totally thought that the chemistry between Vanessa and Catriona was smoking! Much stronger than with Sweet/Dracula. Talk about needing a mask to avoid fainting from the fumes! HoYay ahoy!

Here's my second theory (so far) about how the Jekyll-Frankenstein lobotomy serum will end up being deployed — tonight's episode set us up for Dorian to call in his chit with Victor to use it on Lily because the way Lily has explained it to Dorian, she will never feel truly aligned with him as a free immortal because she cannot shake herself of her past baggage. And I think he's sick of running a home for wayward homicidal women.

9 hours ago, luckyroll3 said:

I love how Malcolm had no time for any of their shit!  He doesn't want to listen to you guilt your son.  He doesn't care to eat your food after you threatened all their lives and killed a guest at the table.  And he surely don't want to hear you mouth off about what a pussy your son is and how you will follow and haunt him after said son just spared your life.  Don't ever stop being a bad ass motherfucker,  Malcolm.  You are awesome!

Absolutely loved Vanessa's hair.  Not sure if it was cut or just tucked under, but it looked great on her. 

My husband, a film school graduate who does not watch PD, walked in on the final sequence and stayed because of Brian Cox, Timothy Dalton, and Josh Hartnett. He was a little thrown at first by Hecate's demon form ("why is there an alien in this shootout?") but otherwise he was totally spellbound and when the screen went to black after Sir Malcolm silenced Papa Talbot's cursing for good, hubs said, "this is an awesome show!"

I like Vanessa's hair this season also, even if it doesn't seem quite true to period — not "done" enough even for a less severe style. But it certainly works as she lets her hair down and loosens up in more ways than one.

On June 6, 2016 at 1:15 AM, Ravenya003 said:

Oh, this show and its anti-climactic deaths. Malcolm shooting Jared in the head was fun, but is that really it for Hecate and Rusk.

 

On June 6, 2016 at 1:15 AM, Ravenya003 said:

No way is all this going to be wrapped up satisfactorily in only three episodes.

It does feel very disjointed this season so far, as if the storytelling is becoming more diffuse rather than coming together as a whole.

On June 4, 2016 at 5:54 AM, sjohnson said:

^^^I nominate Rusk to continue as the antagonist who kills off the superfluous characters, Dorian, Victor and yes, Ethan. 

PS As we see, not to be. Alas!

He did get Hecate though so there's that. Who knew, last season, with all the stürm und drang about killing those witch bitches, that all it would take was a simple pistol shot to the shoulder. Anticlimactic, as ravenya003 says.

[Zaku]

9 hours ago, msbeesknees said:

Right!? I was like "save the smokey eye for the whores, girl." Even the axe-murdering psychiatrist had on a smokey eye. Sorry, makeup is kind of my thing.

In the Victorian Age, make up was only really worn by actresses and prostitutes.

Source

Quote

 The Victorian times were dominated by strict codes of morality and were defined by religious practice. Heavy make up was seen as promiscuous and audacious. For this reason, make up was only really worn by actresses and prostitutes. Subtle, natural beauty was favored over heavy, obvious make up.

[ganesh]

She obviously put on the makeup to let Miss Ives know she was down for whatever. 

[Dobian]

On ‎6‎/‎6‎/‎2016 at 1:00 AM, Raachel2008 said:

It makes some sense, but then it doesn't, and for me the biggest wtf is why I'm supposed to see Kaetenay as a 'good' guy or a father figure to Ethan. The guy slaughtered his mother and siblings, so what gives? Not to mention it is just lame that we still don't know how Ethan got turned into a werewolf.

Remind me never to go to a church service in that chapel.

The whole Ethan backstory just muddle things for me.  Has justice been done here?  Sure, Hecate is dead, that was Malcolm and Kaetenay's main objective besides retrieving Ethan.  Malcolm killing Ethan's father...why?  So he couldn't back up his threat and come after Ethan again?  Because he is such a horrible man?  Was it Malcolm's place at all to be this man's executioner?  And yeah, here is Kaetenay, the man who led the assault to slaughter Ethan's family, and Ethan is loyal to him.  Why, just because he feels guilty over attacking Kaetenay's people?  Ethan doesn't seem to care at all that he got his mother and sister tortured and murdered, as well as his brother.  I guess that's just the price they had to pay so Ethan could get points for penance.  Sheesh.  Way to work through your daddy issues, jerk.  I don't care for the character at all now.

Edited June 7, 2016 by Dobian

[iMonrey]

Some things really aren't adding up here. First and foremost is Vanessa's inability to tell who Dr. Sweet really is. That seems monumentally idiotic of her. I mean, we all saw it coming a mile away even before the show confirmed it, and we haven't spent our whole lives with psychic visions and being stalked by evil the way Vanessa has. She should be able to spot them a mile away by now.

I also thought Hecate was killed a little too easily. I don't get why she transforms into this weird, clotheless and hairless figure at certain times but not others (she didn't have to transform to call up the snakes, for example). And while that effect is usually startling (which may be the only reason it happens at all, for visual impact rather than any practical reason), her body suit looked particularly fake in this episode after she was shot - it was clearly a leotard and it was sagging in spots.

Are there really only three more episodes? Are there usually only nine per season? Or is the last one a two-hour finale?

[RedheadZombie]

I was very distracted by the new woman having flawless makeup, as well as perfectly on trend (for 2016) hair.  I know they're capable of wigs - I'm sure Caliban's hair isn't really patchy and stringy.

I'm going to have to re-watch, but I don't get why it was necessary to kill Ethan's father.  They were walking away safely.  He certainly had a right to be upset about his family's death.  It just seemed odd that Mr. Talbot kills the one guy at dinner, which didn't seem to really upset anyone.  Then bullets are flying everywhere.  I couldn't figure out which side to root for.  Certainly not the side with Hecate, which unfortunately included Ethan.  And then when Mr. Talbot went and hid in the chapel, why the insistence to go kill them all?  Even Malcolm was gung-ho on killing him.  Now I don't believe Talbot was much better, obviously.  I just didn't quite get it.  It seemed like Tarantino got hold of that part of the script. 

At this point it's down right cruel to show Ethan and Vanessa having sex with others - especially the very ones attempting to destroy them.  And when Ethan and Vanessa do finally hit the sheets, I hope it's a little more tender and romantic.  I'm actually kind of grossed out when Vanessa starts the growling and hissing, which she also did with Dorian.  And was it me, or did Ethan's eyes have that black look of a demon during this episode?

[RedheadZombie]

On ‎6‎/‎6‎/‎2016 at 2:13 AM, Glade said:

This season is really dragging for me.  As far as I'm concerned, the entire plot with Ethan in America thus far could have been wrapped up in 1-2 episodes, we didn't need to take up most of the season with him walking through the desert leading up to a pretty obvious conclusion at his father's house.  I hope we won't be subjected to endless scenes of the return journey now.  Though I suspect that the cliche twist that someone--Hecate or the scummy inspector--actually survived will be used.   The moments that Ethan and Vanessa have shared with their evil paramours will never match the power of seeing the two of them together.   For that matter, Dracula will never hold a candle to the raw eroticism of Dorian/Vanessa.  The actor playing Dracula here definitely isn't Gary Oldman, either.

The journey through the desert bordered on satire, in my opinion.  For one thing, it looked like they travelled the same strip over and over.  The sure way to kill the second horse was to have both of them climb on board.  The only thing missing was the mournful harmonica.  It ate up far too much time - especially in a fifty minute episode.  And we accomplished nothing.  Ethan didn't pledge himself to Lucifer while he killed, nor did he repute Lucifer.  Malcolm and Kaetenay found Ethan and it was even them who killed Hecate.  It just seemed so forced and inorganic.

18 hours ago, attica said:

You know, for a septuagenarian, Dalton has got it goin' on. His scenes with Cox have all been crackling good fun; I'm glad he was the one to deliver the coup.

The actor playing Catriona is named Perdita Weeks, which I think is a lovely name. Perdita=lost little one, which seems apt for a show like this.

OF COURSE Patti Lupone killed her NY hubby with a cleaver. I wouldn't have it any other way. Except maybe if she baked him into pies on Fleet Street. 

I really didn't like that little detail.  It seemed completely unnecessary unless she will be joining up with Lily and her version of suffrage. 

17 hours ago, WaltersHair said:

Vanessa is being criminally stupid about Dr. Sweet. I mean deaf, blind and senseless to what he is. What happened to her psychic abilities? When the time comes, I may have to route for him. Maybe.

Vanessa's abilities are fine tuned - she is drawn to darkness and tragedy.  Her father-figure is a killer, her best friend is a killer, her love is a killer, her physician is a killer, her ex-lover is a killer, and her current lover is a killer.  And all of this darkness is drawn to her.  I think her weakness is her inability to determine other's intentions.  She's very open and forgiving of other's weaknesses, often to her own detriment.

[iMonrey]

Quote

I'm going to have to re-watch, but I don't get why it was necessary to kill Ethan's father.  They were walking away safely.  He certainly had a right to be upset about his family's death.

Because he was threatening to continue hunting Ethan down until the end of his days. No more daddy Talbot = no more worries for Ethan. No worries about his father's minions tracking him for the rest of his life, anyway.

[Raachel2008]

4 hours ago, Dobian said:

Remind me never to go to a church service in that chapel.

The whole Ethan backstory just muddle things for me.  Has justice been done here?  Sure, Hecate is dead, that was Malcolm and Kaetenay's main objective besides retrieving Ethan.  Malcolm killing Ethan's father...why?  So he couldn't back up his threat and come after Ethan again?  Because he is such a horrible man?  Was it Malcolm's place at all to be this man's executioner?  And yeah, here is Kaetenay, the man who led the assault to slaughter Ethan's family, and Ethan is loyal to him.  Why, just because he feels guilty over attacking Kaetenay's people?  Ethan doesn't seem to care at all that he got his mother and sister tortured and murdered, as well as his brother.  I guess that's just the price they had to pay so Ethan could get points for penance.  Sheesh.  Way to work through your daddy issues, jerk.  I don't care for the character at all now.

Honestly I think the writers screwed royally with Ethan's story. Not because of the story itself, but because of how they made Ethan react to the news about Kaetenay and his family. Except for the tears (that did not fall) when Jared told him what happened in the chapel, there is NO Indication whatsoever than Ethan mourned his mother, brother and sister. NO indication that he thinks less of Kaetenay now than he did two months ago. NO indication that he understands his father pain. NO indication that his mother, brother and sister deaths/lives are somewhat close in importance to those of the indians he killed. Please don't get me wrong, I'm not saying a white family is more important than indian families, but it is his family and it doesn't look like he is mourning them, or feeling their loss, or even feeling guilty enough about his part in their deaths. Even Sir Malcom feels worse when reminded about his own son.

And again, because it has to be said a million times. Kaeteney can fuck himself.

On 06/06/2016 at 1:29 PM, Waldo13 said:

 Because Lily hates men, Dorian is just a means to the end for her.

 

You tink she does? Because I think she clearly liked/loved Ethan.

[ulkis]

4 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I also thought Hecate was killed a little too easily. I don't get why she transforms into this weird, clotheless and hairless figure at certain times but not others (she didn't have to transform to call up the snakes, for example). And while that effect is usually startling (which may be the only reason it happens at all, for visual impact rather than any practical reason), her body suit looked particularly fake in this episode after she was shot - it was clearly a leotard and it was sagging in spots.

main reason I'm glad she's dead, to be honest. I hate that demon get-up.

[luckyroll3]

6 hours ago, Dobian said:

And yeah, here is Kaetenay, the man who led the assault to slaughter Ethan's family, and Ethan is loyal to him.  Why, just because he feels guilty over attacking Kaetenay's people?  Ethan doesn't seem to care at all that he got his mother and sister tortured and murdered, as well as his brother. 

 

1 hour ago, Raachel2008 said:

Except for the tears (that did not fall) when Jared told him what happened in the chapel, there is NO Indication whatsoever than Ethan mourned his mother, brother and sister. NO indication that he thinks less of Kaetenay now than he did two months ago. NO indication that he understands his father pain. NO indication that his mother, brother and sister deaths/lives are somewhat close in importance to those of the indians he killed. Please don't get me wrong, I'm not saying a white family is more important than indian families, but it is his family and it doesn't look like he is mourning them, or feeling their loss, or even feeling guilty enough about his part in their deaths. Even Sir Malcom feels worse when reminded about his own son.

I don't think Ethan is loyal to him, though.  All season, both Ethan and Kaetenay have said that as soon as Ethan sees Kaetenay, Ethan will most likely kill him.  I think Ethan has mourned his family and sought to escape what happened because he felt guilty, but also to avoid the inevitable confrontation with his father.  He didn't have a strong reaction because he already knew, and he also knew that his father would make him pay for it one way or another, either by murdering him or talking him to death.  It seems to me that he recognizes all to well that his quest to atone for what happened to the Native Americans, which included taking them back to his family's home, resulted in the same type of devastation that sent him on this path to begin with.  Not to mention he's also still dealing with the havoc he causes when he's in wolf form, which, if the NA are also responsible for that as well, adds one more reason for him to resent throwing in with Kaetenay and his crew.  

[Door]

Everyone has already mentioned the serious things I wanted to say so I'll just say this. Mr. Lyle is a treasure and he'd better not stay away too long...and Dorian's hairstyle is seriously bordering on the comical. It's ridiculous and horrid - as opposed to Mr. Lyle's hair, which is ridiculous and fun. Dorian Gray can never be a character who looks, feels, or sounds threatening when he looks like a boy band reject. 

[Happytobehere]

This is the only episode of the series where I drifted off and every time I came back, I had the same thought -- Is this still on? Splitting up the core characters was a mistake, as was killing Zembene.  Most disappointed in this season.

Edited June 8, 2016 by Happytobehere

[raven]

6 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

 

8 hours ago, Dobian said:

Way to work through your daddy issues, jerk. 

LOL

I admit to being kind of disappointed in Ethan's story.  Though I liked the old West setting, finding out Ethan's terrible dad was really just the American version of Malcolm was not what I was expecting.   He was more a big fish in a small pond, no one will miss him now he's gone.  I was thinking more of a heavy political type or something.  Now *boom* he's dead; even if I did laugh at Malcolm blowing him away, that was pretty quick.  I was also a little surprised we didn't get any real Ethan-being-tempted-by-Lucifer after all that build up either; though Ethan did turn away instead of killing his dad.  Now thanks to Malcolm we don't have to see him again, thanks Malcolm!  I hope we see some real atonement from Ethan rather than just blaming and being angry at various father figures for the awful stuff he's done.  I guess we're not getting a werewolf answer this season either, ugh.

I was also surprised that Dr.Seward isn't in prison or an asylum for killing her husband.  Women killing men were not exactly given the benefit of a fair trial I would think.  Maybe she is secretly wealthy or has friends in high places and agreed to move to London, never to be heard from again.  It would have been a nice change of pace if she were just a doctor with Joan Clayton as an ancestor instead of hey! another killer.

 

Lily's plan doesn't seem very well thought out.  If her team just indiscriminately slices up their customers, someone is going to look into that.  More proof that Lily doesn't really care about the prostitutes, just her own version of blood and revenge.

Quote

Vanessa's abilities are fine tuned - she is drawn to darkness and tragedy.  Her father-figure is a killer, her best friend is a killer, her love is a killer, her physician is a killer, her ex-lover is a killer, and her current lover is a killer.  And all of this darkness is drawn to her.  I think her weakness is her inability to determine other's intentions.  She's very open and forgiving of other's weaknesses, often to her own detriment.

This is well said and I think Vanessa also has a lot of empathy for those with complicated, extremely troubled lives.  Mr. Lyle is the only one who doesn't quite fit in, though he sort of does, being gay and Jewish.  I think once Vanessa makes that empathetic connection, she opens herself up and is less aware of her own instincts.  She also commits to a level of trust that most people don't with those who are virtually strangers.  I think the actor playing Dr. Sweet/Dracula is very convincing in both personas, I can see why Vanessa, coming back from wall to wall depression and then being pretty much on her own, wouldn't be able to see the deception.   It is possible that he cares for her as much as he can.  He's still toast once she finds out and gets pissed at him though.

Ugh, my post got lost and then I messed up the quote boxes, sorry.

[ganesh]

4 hours ago, Raachel2008 said:

You tink she does? Because I think she clearly liked/loved Ethan.

She did mention Ethan a few episodes ago. It was like, "ok, exception that proves the rule" iirc. 

[clack]

This season disappoints. Dracula is bland. Lily and Victor are hatching idiotic plans. And why drag Hectate to America if you're only going to kill her off in such an anti-climatic way? 

And the American-set storyline is so thinly imagined. Magical Indians are as wince-inducing as Magical Negroes. Ethan's father having his band of killers massacre a train-car full of U.S. Marshals was just so ridiculous. One of the bloodiest shootouts in Old West history -- and with the victims being lawmen performing their duty --all performed in front of witnesses! It would have been front page news nation-wide. And Ethan's father, as far as we see, is not some immensely powerful figure who might reasonably think he could get away with it. He's just a fucking rancher!

[LittleIggy]

At least Mr. Lyle wasn't killed. So glad Hecate was.

Dorian needs to grow a pair and kick Lily, Justine and her band of whores out of his house. BTW, why is Lily referred to as immortal? Proteus wasn't. 

[qtpye]

19 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Some things really aren't adding up here. First and foremost is Vanessa's inability to tell who Dr. Sweet really is. That seems monumentally idiotic of her. I mean, we all saw it coming a mile away even before the show confirmed it, and we haven't spent our whole lives with psychic visions and being stalked by evil the way Vanessa has. She should be able to spot them a mile away by now.

I also thought Hecate was killed a little too easily. I don't get why she transforms into this weird, clotheless and hairless figure at certain times but not others (she didn't have to transform to call up the snakes, for example). And while that effect is usually startling (which may be the only reason it happens at all, for visual impact rather than any practical reason), her body suit looked particularly fake in this episode after she was shot - it was clearly a leotard and it was sagging in spots.

Are there really only three more episodes? Are there usually only nine per season? Or is the last one a two-hour finale?

It was horrible.  I could see it bagging around her ankles and it looked silly, rather then menacing...like a dorky alien.  Also, her powers were never well defined.  She seems very mortal, but can summon Satan's snakes?  Her backstory about being raped and tortured by Satan as a child (sacrificed by her mother) was really not given any weight, beyond a way to bond with Ethan and his daddy issues.  I thought that was horrible and was reminded of the child abuse and torture that goes on in the real world in many cults/communes/religions fostered by the people who are supposed to protect the innocent (Catholic Priest Scandal being one of the most recent).

11 hours ago, Door said:

Everyone has already mentioned the serious things I wanted to say so I'll just say this. Mr. Lyle is a treasure and he'd better not stay away too long...and Dorian's hairstyle is seriously bordering on the comical. It's ridiculous and horrid - as opposed to Mr. Lyle's hair, which is ridiculous and fun. Dorian Gray can never be a character who looks, feels, or sounds threatening when he looks like a boy band reject. 

Dorian looked so ineffective and silly against Lily's rage.  It also undermines Lily's anger, because she talks of men abusing women in positions of power and we all know that Lily could rip apart Dorian's pretty face in seconds.  He always seems subservient to her dominance...like arm candy.  Perhaps, this is what the writers were going for since most Victorian women had very little real power?

Edited June 8, 2016 by qtpye

[darkestboy]

The sooner this show kills off Justine, the bloody best. As for Lily's brand of feminism, well it's certainly taken the Tumblr route with a literal 'kill all men' behind it.

Dorian is turning against Lily's crusade and a part of me can't blame. While I don't like the idea of Victor trying to change her, Lily's actions are going to get innocent people killed nonetheless. 

Vanessa and Sweet, I'm conflicted with this. She should stake him but I find their dynamic so compelling to watch. Shame we lost Lyle in this episode but I liked what we saw of Caitriona so far. Good potential there.

Not sad to see both Hecate and Jared killed off and it's nice that by next week, Ethan and Malcolm will probably be back in London as well.

Nice scene with Caliban but it didn't really advance anything with his storyline though, 8/10
 

[Epeolatrix]

Quote

in HG Wells novel "The Time Machine" the protagonist has no name but in the 2002 movie they gave him the name "Hartdegen". Coincidence?

I think not; the 2002 movie's screenplay was written by our own John Logan.

[iMonrey]

Quote

It was horrible.  I could see it bagging around her ankles and it looked silly, rather then menacing...like a dorky alien. 

It reminded me of an old costume from Lost in Space.

If the witches are so easy to kill in their transformed state, why didn't Malcolm and Vanessa just shoot them last season? I mean, it's supposed to be all menacing and scary when all of a sudden Hecate transforms into this weird, alien-looking creature and crawls across the table towards Daddy Talbot and then . . . blammo! He just shoots her and she dies. That was . . . anticlimactic, to say the least. Who knew they could be dispensed with so easily? Not so scary now.

[RedheadZombie]

42 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

It reminded me of an old costume from Lost in Space.

If the witches are so easy to kill in their transformed state, why didn't Malcolm and Vanessa just shoot them last season? I mean, it's supposed to be all menacing and scary when all of a sudden Hecate transforms into this weird, alien-looking creature and crawls across the table towards Daddy Talbot and then . . . blammo! He just shoots her and she dies. That was . . . anticlimactic, to say the least. Who knew they could be dispensed with so easily? Not so scary now.

They seemed to move too fast to be shot last season.  Except Lyle shot one didn't he?  I think he got a nice line in about his beautiful hair.

[tennisgurl]

Highlight of the episode? Sir Malcolm getting annoyed with the Talbot family drama and just shooting Talbot the older in the middle of his most recent speech. Stop talking and just get to the action people. 

Hecate...existed. I guess. I hope this is the end of her and her catsuit. And I REALLY hope this means our gang all comes together soon. I have enjoyed this little visit to the Old West, but its time to get the band back together. 

Lily and her storyline is reminding me a lot of certain story elements from the latest Sherlock episode. Weird. 

[Margherita Erdman]

On June 5, 2016 at 10:19 PM, Tech Noir said:

 ...in HG Wells novel "The Time Machine" the protagonist has no name but in the 2002 movie they gave him the name "Hartdegen". Coincidence?

 

8 hours ago, Violet Impulse said:

I think not; the 2002 movie's screenplay was written by our own John Logan.

So do we think that Catriona the "thanatologist" is some kind of time traveling vampire slayer? That would be kind of awesome on its own as a concept but it feels like PD's plate is already so full this season and there is too much to properly season, cook, and digest already, if that metaphor isn't getting too tortured.

[Cthulhudrew]

On 6/5/2016 at 10:19 PM, Tech Noir said:

There is a Robert Louis Stevenson called Catronia. I haven't read it but it was published in 1893 so the timing is right. OR (this is a stretch but) ... in HG Wells novel "The Time Machine" the protagonist has no name but in the 2002 movie they gave him the name "Hartdegen". Coincidence? Or maybe just the writers playing with us because they know fans google everything? 

This Catriona has nothing to do with the RLS novel; just read it a little over a year ago (maybe two; my dad bought it for me when we were in Edinburgh). The novel is a sequel to Kidnapped, and it takes place well before the Declaration of Independence, so unless she's also an immortal...

[LittleIggy]

I think Ethan's father had a good reason to be furious with him. Why were we supposed to think he was so evil?

[withanaich]

Quote

Remind me never to go to a church service in that chapel.

Yeah, Mr. Talbot is full of shit. He pretends to be so holier-than-thou, but he led them into the chapel where his family died for a shootout. Some tribute to your family's memory.

Quote

 

I think Ethan's father had a good reason to be furious with him. Why were we supposed to think he was so evil?

 

I think everyone is being so hard on him because of his nasty racist diatribe, and the fact that he's just awful. His anger at Ethan is completely understandable, but the way he wants to confront him about it is not. He had a bunch of bystanders killed on a train just to get to him. He wants him to pray or whatever not because he thinks it'll save his soul, or as a form of apology, but because he wants to humiliate him. He invited a lawman to dinner and then murdered him because he had the nerve to complain about the men Talbot had killed. No one really cares about this dude's pain because he's such an asshole. Maybe if we saw more of him we'd see some redeeming qualities -- as we have for Malcolm, who had a somewhat similar past -- but I doubt it. Malcolm's not blameless either but he's not as vile as Ethan's father, and we've seen him show regret and at least attempt to atone for his past sins after tragedy befell him. Talbot just doubled down on being awful. 

Quote

Dorian Gray can never be a character who looks, feels, or sounds threatening when he looks like a boy band reject. 

Oh my goodness, this. This is exactly what he looks like. Like the leftover member of a second-rate version of 98 Degrees that teenyboppers make their little sister pretend is her boyfriend because no one else wants him. Like, "if you're quiet, Madison, you can stay while we talk and you can have Dorian." Dorian and his floppy hair and his sad smirk and his odd little plaid robe. No one cares, Dorian. You can never be interesting, even if you turn into Mr. Hyde.