S05.E10: The Day the World Went Away

[DeepRunner]

19 minutes ago, StarBrand said:

Well, if the writers say they left the series' finale open enough to continue the story, then somebody has to be left standing. My bet is on Shaw.

It would be sort of cool if it ended with Reese and Finch, like it began. I don't want to see Shaw or Fusco die, but it would be full circle. Unfortunately, I think Mr. Reese is a goner by season's end. Can't decide if he will die protecting Harold or die in a gunfight with Zachary or Blackwell. Or while protecting Finch in a gunfight with Zachary or Blackwell.

[elle]

2 hours ago, SierraMist said:

Oh, so he was lying to the waitress when he said he'd never been there.  But is it likely she would remember his order from the last time?  Something still seems off to me about the setup.  Or was the waitress supposed to be Samaritan?

There was something off about the scene.  The waitress was either Samaritan or when she printed the ticket, Samaritan add a little note to it saying to say "welcome back".

The scene with Reese and Finch going to the Temporary Solutions offices, that had a weird vibe.  One would have thought they those two would have been on high alert when the receptionist said something about "wanting to risk" meeting the supervisor.  At the very least, not let themselves be led into a trap when they walked into an empty office.

2 hours ago, DarkRaichu said:

Not so easily believable is that the car took several bursts from a mini-gun and not only still looked like a car, it was actually capable of driving!

My daughter got a big kick (npi) out of Root driving the car "with her boot".

1 hour ago, AimingforYoko said:

She's in Italy under a cover ID. The Machine showed Harold surveillance of her in the season's opening episode.

Phew!  Thank you for filling in that story!

[Kate213]

Great episode but one thing is bugging me.  It was said twice in the episode that Samaritan didn’t want Finch dead, by both Greer and Reese. So if Samaritan doesn’t want Finch dead (and they had plenty of opportunities to kill him, namely when Elias was killed or in the garage), why order the hit on him?  And how did Samaritan know where Root was driving with enough lead time to be able to get a sniper to the exact spot?   Was it actually Samaritan?  Or the Machine/Root?  Root talked with Harold at length about the need to give the Machine a voice, a name, unleash it to it's full potential, etc. Immediately after that she dies and it was enough to push him into doing exactly that.  Despite the interviews and the fact that Root's death was telegraphed throughout the entire episode, a part of me is wondering if (hoping) she or the Machine faked her death to finally push Harold to free the machine (or if she is really dead, the Machine could have sacrificed Root to accomplish the same).  

The finale title is 'Return 0' after all... 

Edited June 1, 2016 by Kate213

[mad_typist]

19 hours ago, HowdyTV said:

Still, after 7000 some iterations, Shah(Shaw) deserved a little longer time with Root, and Root with her for her steadfast belief that Shah was alive and looking for her.

I choose to believe that Shaw and Root spent the week mostly doing crazy sex stuff, so they at least had that time together.

Me, at the beginning of the season: "Oh, there's Root's voice. I know this season is supposed to be a bloodbath, but at least she makes it."

Me, watching this episode and hearing Root tell Harold that The Machine will pick Her own voice: "Uh oh."

[StarBrand]

Quote

Root talked with Harold at length about the need to give the Machine a voice, a name, unleash it to it's full potential, etc. Immediately after that she dies and it was enough to push him into doing exactly that.  Despite the interviews and the fact that Root's death was telegraphed throughout the entire episode, a part of me is wondering if (hoping) she or the Machine faked her death to finally push Harold to free the machine (or if she is really dead, the Machine could have sacrificed Root to accomplish the same).  

Interesting point. Although I have another theory.  Samaritan had the sniper target Finch, put him in a spot where Root would see him at the last minute. Then it could have predicted Root would sweve to have the shot hit her and not Finch. Thus, the actual target was Root.

[Jipijapa]

3 hours ago, basiltherat said:

I always thought New Yorkers were more savvy than that!  When did they become sheep who stood in line to get "vaccinated"?  

About the same time they started standing in line like sheep to get their shoes examined...

[Kate213]

27 minutes ago, DeepRunner said:

Return 0 is a successful operation, as you likely know. I have wondered if it's a double entendre, meaning NO ONE returns.

Exactly, I think unleashing the Machine is the thing that will ultimately allow them to win.  

My guess is that Reese dies, and possibly Finch as well, but Shaw and Fusco make it out alive.

[gymratgrandma]

Nooooooooooo!   Crap damn nooooooo

[johntfs]

I think Fusco and his kid make it out alive.  Reese probably dies and Shaw certainly dies taking revenge on Samaritan/Green.  I think Finch lives and Blackwell (the Samaritan operative) repents and becomes his newest helper in dealing with the numbers.

[whatsatool]

Enough deaths.

[HowdyTV]

Kate213, what is winning going to be? Are they so far behind and so small in operations to make winning unfeasible? What's the best we could hope for? Can Samaritan be obliterated and those used to its power incarcerated?  

I don't know, that's why I'm asking! These last three episodes will be humdingers!

[Agent Dark]

1 hour ago, Kate213 said:

Great episode but one thing is bugging me.  It was said twice in the episode that Samaritan didn’t want Finch dead, by both Greer and Reese. So if Samaritan doesn’t want Finch dead (and they had plenty of opportunities to kill him, namely when Elias was killed or in the garage), why order the hit on him?  And how did Samaritan know where Root was driving with enough lead time to be able to get a sniper to the exact spot?   Was it actually Samaritan?  Or the Machine/Root? 

I've seen a few people suggesting this, but I don't think so - there's a shot of Samaritan changing Finch's status from "Capture" to "Eliminate" after Root rescues him.  That's when Blackwell gets activated for the sniper hit.

[CoderLady]

Just now, Agent Dark said:

I've seen a few people suggesting this, but I don't think so - there's a shot of Samaritan changing Finch's status from "Capture" to "Eliminate" after Root rescues him.  That's when Blackwell gets activated for the sniper hit.

I think once Samaritan got it through its thick skull that Finch had no intention of joining it, and after failing to turn Shaw, it went all petulant and decided to squish him. And failed!

[WearyTraveler]

3 hours ago, SierraMist said:

Oh, so he was lying to the waitress when he said he'd never been there.  But is it likely she would remember his order from the last time?  Something still seems off to me about the setup.  Or was the waitress supposed to be Samaritan?

Harold told the waitress she was confusing him with someone else.  She replied that their system (not her) had picked up on the fact that Harold was a return customer because he ordered the same thing he always did, and he did have two cups of coffee in front of him.

This is when Harold realized that he had made a mistake that Samaritan could catch. It is implied, I think, that Harold went there every year on the anniversary of his first date with Grace and ordered the same thing they had ordered that day.  So, there was a record of a pattern that Harold followed and that was documented in a system to which both machines had access.

==================================

Someone upthread asked if the S5 opening speech said something about being the only survivor.  It didn't.  I've transcribed the speech:

"If you can hear this, you're alone. The only thing left of us is the sound of my voice. I don't know if any of us made it. Did we win? Did we lose? I don't know. I'm not even sure I know what victory would mean anymore. And either way, it's over. So, let me tell you who we were. Let me tell you who you are. ANd how we fought back"

[Kate213]

26 minutes ago, HowdyTV said:

Kate213, what is winning going to be? Are they so far behind and so small in operations to make winning unfeasible? What's the best we could hope for? Can Samaritan be obliterated and those used to its power incarcerated?

Not sure, I haven't really given it a lot of thought other than Samaritan being destroyed somehow, maybe by a virus?  It appears the Machine survives, at least based on the season premiere where The Machine/Root is talking amidst the destroyed subway:

20 minutes ago, WearyTraveler said:

"If you can hear this, you're alone. The only thing left of us is the sound of my voice. I don't know if any of us made it. Did we win? Did we lose? I don't know. I'm not even sure I know what victory would mean anymore. And either way, it's over. So, let me tell you who we were. Let me tell you who you are. ANd how we fought back"

Could the Machine really lose and still be functional?  I'd think it'd have to be either Samaritan or the Machine at the end, not both or it's not really over.  No idea about the seemingly endless supply of Samaritan operatives; it seems unlikely that many of them will be incarcerated.

Edited June 2, 2016 by Kate213

[Lee4U]

I wonder when they began this show if it was expected that ME would be the real stand out over JC - Well, he is to me anyway a far superior actor.  He can do so much with so little.  Just amazing.

His rather calm response when Elias blew the "voice" up in the car showed me how far he had come in creeping along on over to the dark side...that end speech was dynamite.

I would like it if the remaining 4 stayed alive and worked with root as the machine in the future; I really don't want or need them to do scorched earth when they end the show by killing even one more of the core group.  

But, it is tv and they usually think the more dramatic and overly done, the better, while I think the opposite.  I want there to be a future for them - whichever form it may take and I don't even need to know that for certain.

[Agent Dark]

So obviously the big thing from this episode was the shock over Root :( :( :(, but now that I've had time to process that - man there was so much great stuff going on this episode.  Root's metaphysical discussions are always fantastic, and to get some here as her final musings in her fleshy form was great.  Especially since some of them came in the middle of a gunfight, mixed in with a healthy dose of Shaw flirting.  Oh Root :D.  That scene where they hold hands was perfect for them as well.  I've read alot of comments on being robbed of a proper Root/Shaw dynamic now that Shaw is back and I get that and can even agree with it on principle, but at the same time you have to remember who these two are.  Shaw can't do grand expressions of emotions.  Its not who she is.  So that little display of simply holding Root's hand is effectively like a dam breaking open.  Combine that with what we saw unfiltered in Shaw's mind in 6,741 I honestly think the show did right by their relationship.  The only thing I'm upset about really is that we were robbed a proper season to explore all this - ok CBS, shorten the episode order but could you have at least not insisted on forcing some 'number-of-the-week' episodes that effectively ate into what limited time we were give?  argh.

 

The action was awesomely outrageous this episode too.  Nolan commented on twitter that the 'driving backwards with her foot, whilst firing a big gun out the sun-roof' was an idea he had for a 'Bourne Movie' but he decided to give it to Root instead.  That's pretty freaking bad-ass - when the 'hair scrunchy thing' comes out, shit gets real lol.  Plus Shaw doing what she loves (ie shooting stuff :D), Reese and Fusco pairing up and the last hurrah of Elias and his crew.. it was a good action episode. 

 

And now we're left with 3 episodes to go, and our world irrevocably changed leading up to it.  I truly believe that Root has ascended, achieved immortality/apotheosis and she's not truly 'dead', but it still hits hard.  And at the same time I have a massive feeling of exhilaration leading into the final run of episodes and where the show will end up.  Now that we know it was actually The Machine speaking in that flash-forward at the start of the season has thrown everything up in the air.  Who was she speaking to (Finch? Samaritan? Humanity?).  Who survived? (No-one? Finch? Shaw?)  And what will the world look like after its all done?  I actually wish they were airing all 3 remaining episodes next week just so the anticipation doesn't kill me lol

[Sulador]

Oh, amazing and wonderful. I knew Elias wouldn't live to see another day, and I liked him way more than I should like such an evil creature, but he died a hero. And Root is now a goddess of war... And Harry is an Angry Bird! I think that retribution is going to be all-encompassing, and I can't wait. But...I can,  because it will all be over. I fearlessly and no doubt erroneously predict that Harold and MachineRoot (and Bear!) will be the survivors, and possibly Lionel as their new Hand. John and Sameen die heroically. What amazing acting all round: I can't imagine how they're going to top this episode. Michael Emerson and Amy Acker were toweringly excellent. "I wasn't talking to you": OMG the chills and shivers. He's going to be incredible as the new Dark Lord. Only he won't be Dark. I had my moments of boredom with this show, but now I am so sorry it's going away...

[kwnyc]

Just a side note to say that I have enjoyed this discussion and this board so much...it's really enhanced my love for the show.

[DarkRaichu]

3 hours ago, WearyTraveler said:

Harold told the waitress she was confusing him with someone else.  She replied that their system (not her) had picked up on the fact that Harold was a return customer because he ordered the same thing he always did, and he did have two cups of coffee in front of him.

This is when Harold realized that he had made a mistake that Samaritan could catch. It is implied, I think, that Harold went there every year on the anniversary of his first date with Grace and ordered the same thing they had ordered that day.  So, there was a record of a pattern that Harold followed and that was documented in a system to which both machines had access.

Actually upon rewatch, the waitress was  the one who recognized Harold and his order, she even said it has been a while.

After chatting with Elias, Harold realized his mistake was coming back to the exact cafe on 10th anniversary of his 1st date with Grace.  Meaning if the waitress could recognize him and his order, Samaritan could too

[bros402]

12 hours ago, Dagny said:

For half a minute when Root was discussing with Shaw that they were all shapes and the Machine has also run simulations on them, I thought that this episode was going to be another simulation. Flashing back to to Brazil and Matrix.

I agree with Sierra Mist.  Has Howard eaten at so many restaurants that he forgot that he went there with Grace?

I don't remember, but I thought the when Root installed the seven servers, it erased them all and provided cover. How did Samaritan pick up on Grace and Harold being important?

Samaritan linked Grace to Harold previously. The servers just blinded Samaritan so it couldn't see Team Machine - didn't erase them. It accessed archival footage [that presumably] the government gathered to find all instances of Harold Finch and determined patterns. He went there not because he forgot, but probably because he was celebrating their anniversary, even if they couldn't celebrate it together.

 

Or, subconsciously, he wanted to be caught.

[Camera One]

That was really difficult to watch.  I avoid spoilers and previews, so I had no idea anyone was going to die.  After the violent Elias headshot, I was really afraid Root would get the same while she was driving past that apartment building.  I did not expect that scene at the morgue at the end.

The episode was intense and exciting.  I just wish we got to see more Elias on the Team before he was killed off.  A few seasons ago, I would have been glad for him to go, but his dynamic in the first half of this episode was awesome.  

I know they needed the deaths to impact Finch's actions, but I felt really frustrated at how hard-headed and defeatist he was, even after Elias was killed.  That aspect just wasn't very enjoyable to watch.  How many people needed to die before he asked for help from The Machine.  Heck, Root might have been saved if he had done that earlier.  

Root's exchange with Shaw at the shootout was fun, and we only got half an episode with the team together.  They couldn't have brought her back a bit earlier and spared us a simulation?  This final season has been pretty good, but a change in the pacing could have given us more of this.  Just like Acker's character's fate on "Angel", it's not the same watching the actress in a different "form".

And that gravelly old man's demise better be a satisfying one.    

Edited June 2, 2016 by Camera One

[bros402]

7 hours ago, Kate213 said:

Great episode but one thing is bugging me.  It was said twice in the episode that Samaritan didn’t want Finch dead, by both Greer and Reese. So if Samaritan doesn’t want Finch dead (and they had plenty of opportunities to kill him, namely when Elias was killed or in the garage), why order the hit on him?  And how did Samaritan know where Root was driving with enough lead time to be able to get a sniper to the exact spot?   Was it actually Samaritan?  Or the Machine/Root?  Root talked with Harold at length about the need to give the Machine a voice, a name, unleash it to it's full potential, etc. Immediately after that she dies and it was enough to push him into doing exactly that.  Despite the interviews and the fact that Root's death was telegraphed throughout the entire episode, a part of me is wondering if (hoping) she or the Machine faked her death to finally push Harold to free the machine (or if she is really dead, the Machine could have sacrificed Root to accomplish the same).  

The finale title is 'Return 0' after all... 

Perhaps Root asked the Machine to run simulations and it determined that someone would need to die - and Root determined that her loss would be the best for the team - as Root would not want to live without Shaw and Reese was too important - perhaps she had the Machine pretend to be Blackwell's superiors and have it order him to kill Finch, then Root could take the hit for him.

 

Return 0 means that the code/program has executed successfully.

[Dowel Jones]

Quote

In the middle of a shootout is where Root turns into Chatty Cathy? Okay.

Not to mention that two highly accomplished assassins suddenly can't hit targets less than 100' away, despite an onslaught of over a hundred shots fired.  But then again, the Samaritan guys are, fortunately, the JV team also. 

 

9 hours ago, Bobbin said:

Maybe somehow Samaritan will be defeated in the end without starting WW3. Or resulting in anarchy.

Maybe the two machines will meet in a titanic battlebot war and both collapse.  Just my personal opinion, but I would be perfectly accommodating to the idea of living my life from day to day without a computer program determining whether the world is safe for me, or anyone else.  A little anarchy can be a good thing. .

[juliet73]

Was the mini machine still running the simulations against mini Samaritan in this episode? As of last week, the machine was still at 0 and Samaritan was past the 10,000,000,000 mark. The machine just needs 1 win...

[mad_typist]

This episode apparently everyone was struck with a case of Stormtrooper-itis, because neither Team Machine nor the Samaritan agents could hit the broad side of a barn.

This is twice now that Amy Acker has been on a show that miraculously made it to 100 episodes (POI/Angel), where her super nerd character (Root/Fred) tragically died towards the end of the final season, returning as a literal god (The Machine/Illyria), but also spurring the soft bespectacled tweed wearing guy on the team (Harold/Wesley) to embrace his inner dark side.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

20 hours ago, benteen said:

With the exception of Carter and Fusco (a previously corrupt cops), the police have been portrayed on this show as inept or corrupt.

"In case you haven't noticed, the police of Sunnydale are deeply stupid."

[ABay]

Speaking of links to other texts...

Harold's speech to Samaritan at the end reminded me of a bit from Docotr Who "A Good Man Goes to War": Good men don’t need rules. Today is not the day to find out why I have so many.

Maybe at the beginning of the first episode, The Machine was speaking to a new machine it created to replace Samaritan, like Deep Thought builds the Earth to answer the question of life, the universe, and everything.

[WearyTraveler]

7 hours ago, DarkRaichu said:

Actually upon rewatch, the waitress was  the one who recognized Harold and his order, she even said it has been a while.

After chatting with Elias, Harold realized his mistake was coming back to the exact cafe on 10th anniversary of his 1st date with Grace.  Meaning if the waitress could recognize him and his order, Samaritan could too

Yes, you are right, the waitress recognized him, but she also recognized his order, which would be in the system and show up as a Harold pattern to Samaritan.  Their exchange was as follows:

W: Double shot and cappuccino. Glad to see you back. It's been a while, hasn't it?

H: I'm afraid that you are confusing me with someone else. This is the first time I've been to this establishment

W: Oh, sorry, it's just I thought I recognized your order too.

H: What a coincidence.

2 minutes ago, ABay said:

Speaking of links to other texts...

Harold's speech to Samaritan at the end reminded me of a bit from Docotr Who "A Good Man Goes to War": Good men don’t need rules. Today is not the day to find out why I have so many.

Maybe at the beginning of the first episode, The Machine was speaking to a new machine it created to replace Samaritan, like Deep Thought builds the Earth to answer the question of life, the universe, and everything.

42!

[fastiller]

8 hours ago, kwnyc said:

Just a side note to say that I have enjoyed this discussion and this board so much...it's really enhanced my love for the show.

Aww, we like you too.

[benteen]

Yeah, I was wondering why Samaritan didn't pick up Elias when he was walking around with Finch.  We know why Finch, Reese and Root aren't detected by Samaritan.

Which reminds me, there are three other guys who worked for Root that are also protected by Samaritan.  But those guys are long out of the game.

Reese and Fusco knew the situation they were walking into at Temporary Solutions but allowing themselves to be in that back office seemed ill-advised.

[MDL]

14 hours ago, WearyTraveler said:

Someone upthread asked if the S5 opening speech said something about being the only survivor.  It didn't.  I've transcribed the speech:

"If you can hear this, you're alone. The only thing left of us is the sound of my voice. I don't know if any of us made it. Did we win? Did we lose? I don't know. I'm not even sure I know what victory would mean anymore. And either way, it's over. So, let me tell you who we were. Let me tell you who you are. ANd how we fought back"

Wow, I missed that speech completely until reading that post.The content and tone feels similar to some of Sarah Connor's journal entries in   Terminator.

[WearyTraveler]

I think the Machine is talking to Samaritan in that opening speech

[Dagny]

11 hours ago, DarkRaichu said:

Actually upon rewatch, the waitress was  the one who recognized Harold and his order, she even said it has been a while.

Harold must realllly stand out for a waitress to remember him and his order for over 10 years ago.

[DarkRaichu]

4 hours ago, WearyTraveler said:

Yes, you are right, the waitress recognized him, but she also recognized his order, which would be in the system and show up as a Harold pattern to Samaritan.  Their exchange was as follows:

W: Double shot and cappuccino. Glad to see you back. It's been a while, hasn't it?

H: I'm afraid that you are confusing me with someone else. This is the first time I've been to this establishment

W: Oh, sorry, it's just I thought I recognized your order too.

H: What a coincidence.

 

That's exactly what I pointed out, the waitress recognized Harold and his order.  Note the waitress never mentioned anything about any system.  My take on that scene was the waitress has worked at the cafe for 10+ years (maybe she was the owner of the cafe) and happened to have very good memory when it comes to her customers, even 10 years later.  Since Harold was there 10 years ago and did place the exact order then, she concluded that Harold had visited the cafe before. 

As Root said, Samaritan was looking at all past and present information to locate Team Machine.  Just like the waitress, Samaritan could piece together a pattern (ie similar looking person with same order on the same day 10 years later) and concluded Harold = Prof. Whistler based on that pattern.  

Edited June 2, 2016 by DarkRaichu

[DarkRaichu]

7 hours ago, mad_typist said:

This episode apparently everyone was struck with a case of Stormtrooper-itis, because neither Team Machine nor the Samaritan agents could hit the broad side of a barn.

Err, actually this was the first time a Samaritan agent hit the intended target (ie. Elias' forehead) during gun fights.  They usually miss TM, even when Reese is standing just 10-15 feet in front of them.

[Princess Lucky]

15 hours ago, johntfs said:

I think Fusco and his kid make it out alive.  Reese probably dies and Shaw certainly dies taking revenge on Samaritan/Green.  I think Finch lives and Blackwell (the Samaritan operative) repents and becomes his newest helper in dealing with the numbers.

I love this idea. There's something about the actor who plays Blackwell. He's not like a Simmons to me, someone I love to hate. He's almost like a Hersh, someone who could potentially help once he sees the error of his ways (or of his employers' ways).

I always thought Root and Reese would die*, to be honest. I wasn't expecting it to happen before the series finale, but it's only 3 more episodes and we still have Root's voice and (sort of) personality. That's fascinating, and it's also the natural end for Root as a character. I do think it's gotta be painful for people to see yet another dead lesbian, but before Root and Shaw fell in love, Root started out on a course which so clearly would ultimately lead to her uploading her consciousness onto The Machine (I remember making a post about William Gibson and Neuromancer and the X-Files episode 'Kill Switch' years ago, on TWoP). As soon as Root became "Analog Interface" and a cyborg (with her cochlear implant), it was confirmed. And she didn't even have to actively do it, because the Machine has little copies of everyone in it. I loved how that was explained. And obviously the Machine would choose Root's voice. I mean come on. All of this was perfectly in line with Root's character and her personality, and you know she's happy knowing this is how she died. And how she remained 'alive' through her God.

I do think it would have been better in theory to have the lesbian couple survive and live happily ever after, but I don't think it would have been "better" to get a happy ending for Root specifically. I suspect we might get a "happy ending" for Finch with Grace, and I suspect I will hate it. Which is why I love the idea that Blackwell will become the new Reese and Finch will keep working the numbers. That's what I'd like to see. Some people dead but "Team Machine" (Finch, Blackwell and Fusco) still getting the job done. No Batman "aw a cafe in Italy, how quaint, lemme retire" bullshit (ya hear, Jonah Nolan?). I'd have loved to see a legit kiss between Root and Shaw, but a happy ending would not have been my cup of tea. And I do agree that Shaw dying (a possibility I used to dismiss completely) would make sense now, if she wants to avenge Root, so I'm preparing myself.

*I'm still 100% convinced Reese dies. The Iris thing, his coming clean with Fusco and their reconciliation, his 'that's why you hired me' to Finch. Reese is toast. Which, again, is the natural end for his character. Should the writers say "omg but he and Iris are great together (they weren't, but devil's advocate), let's have him survive"? No way. Again, I respect the pain of the viewers who expected better from Person of Interest, but I take comfort in the fact Root wasn't originally conceived as a lesbian and the writers wrote in her connection to/love for Shaw despite that fact. Plus, while it's tragic to see her die, the show is almost over. She got the big death in episode 100, plus she's still "there". You can't expect this show to end without casualties. Root got a huge episode to herself, for her death. The others (Reese and possibly Shaw) will probably die together in the finale.

Lastly, Michael Emerson is divine. No words. Finch Unleashed is what I live for. Let's see what happens.

Also, dammit but we're back to one episode per week? The wait will be impossible now that we got used to having 2 or even 3 episodes to watch! Ugh.

Edited June 2, 2016 by Princess Lucky

[Scout Finch]

Partway through the episode I realized how much I would adore a spin-off show of Shaw and Root being a badass crime-fighting team but now that's not possible. Boo. I really hated Root at first but that totally changed during the last few seasons. However, I must be missing something when it comes to Elias because I don't get the appeal of the character or why he's considered to be so important to the show. 

[tricknasty]

I left Show when they killed off Carter (my favorite). Just tuned in to see how everything ends. So are Shaw and Root a couple? Saw Root dying a mile away.

[ppl]

Just a thought on Harold showing up at the cafe. Could it be his Alzheimer's starting to kick in? Confabulation is a symptom of Alzheimer's disease and it could be the reason why he kept seeing Grace on the video feeds in SNAFU and went to the cafe this episode.

[Enigma X]

I am in the crowd with those who still don't understand what tipped the waitress off. I just don't see her remembering him and his order from 10 years ago unless he was a frequent customer around that time.

[ppl]

28 minutes ago, Enigma X said:

I am in the crowd with those who still don't understand what tipped the waitress off. I just don't see her remembering him and his order from 10 years ago unless he was a frequent customer around that time.

She might have a photographic memory or what happened on Harold's first date with Grace stuck with her all these years?

[Enigma X]

6 minutes ago, ppl said:

She might have a photographic memory or what happened on Harold's first date with Grace stuck with her all these years?

I guess my point is that this requires the viewer to fill in a major plot point with wild and sort of far-flung guesses.

[elle]

2 minutes ago, Enigma X said:

I guess my point is that this requires the viewer to fill in a major plot point with wild and sort of far-flung guesses.

Not the first time for a show to do this!  I'm still waiting for a solution to the missing persons case Fusco for which Fusco and Bear almost lost their lives.  I suggested that it had to do with "the Voice" in that episode's thread, but there was no mention of them then either.

[TigerLynx]

1 hour ago, tricknasty said:

I left Show when they killed off Carter (my favorite). Just tuned in to see how everything ends. So are Shaw and Root a couple? Saw Root dying a mile away.

Carter wasn't my favorite, but I thought it was foolish to kill her off because Nathan and Jessica were already dead.  Also, in Season One it was hinted at that Carter's husband has been killed in the war in Iraq.  She was a widow, not a divorcee.

This may sound mean, but if Reese and Shaw die, I kind of want Finch to die to since he brought them into this.

Fusco and Bear should live.

[Lbrtales]

I think the cafe recognition bit is possible because Samaritan already knows what they look like. So, it could have gone through years of CCTV footage hunting for their faces and logging when and where they appeared. It's one way to build a profile on an unknown target. Then, Samaritan keeps a watch on certain locations to see if the target comes back. Harold goes back to the cafe. Samaritan sees him there. Then hears (the new ability) what the waitress says about 10 years/repeat visits which triggers Samaritan to put the pieces together. 

As for the missing bodies, I think its misdirection by Samaritan. Missing persons cases tie up police resources. And by classifying something as a missing persons case it doesn't become a homicide which would cost more resources leading to Samaritan's activities being discovered. Friends and families will be less inclined to snoop into a missing case and decreasing the possibility of someone getting into Samaritan's business. Samaritan maintains the perceptions that crime is down when really it's the opposite. It's just covering its tracks. Or planning to use the finding of the missing bodies to frame Team Machine. 

The show could stay "open ended" even if it has a Blakes7 ending where everyone dies or is captured. All you need to have at the end is a character or characters who have a connection to both the Machine and one of Team Machine. For example, Will Ingram (Nathan's son) is the last POI. He comes back to NYC from Sudan to see his Uncle Harold. Samaritan finds out. Will being in danger trips Finch into the final Dark Finch transformation and he lets the Machine loose. Machine/Root could be telling Will about everything during the voiceover. Or Caleb the one who invented the compression algorithm could also work as the last POI survivor. The only other characters that could work would be Grace and Fusco's son. Ultimately, they could have some ending be deliberately vague - show no body, show a person in a hospital bed with a taped up face or show no final death scene. 

[Netfoot]

4 hours ago, Princess Lucky said:

I do think it's gotta be painful for people to see yet another dead lesbian

Of all the things I think of when I think of Root, from tragic hero to redeemed psychopath and a hundred things inbetween...  Well, if they watched the show, and the only thing they saw was a dead lesbian, then I'm sorry for the self-absorbed fuckers.  

[CoderLady]

^^^ a thousand times. There's so much more going on in this show.

[ABay]

My take on the waitress recognizing him: He went that day because it was the 10th anniversary of his first date with Grace. In the past, they went there several times after that and he went by himself before becoming Prof. Whistler. So, often enough to look familiar to the waitress.

[DarkRaichu]

1 hour ago, Enigma X said:

I am in the crowd with those who still don't understand what tipped the waitress off. I just don't see her remembering him and his order from 10 years ago unless he was a frequent customer around that time.

Either that or Harold and Grace became regular customers after their 1st date 10 years ago.  Harold never said he stopped coming 10 years ago, just that he was there for the 10th anniversary of their 1st date.  So maybe Harold and Grace came regularly for a couple of years afterward thus their orders were stuck in the waitress' memory.