S04.E07: The Antisocialism of Sex

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Promo:

[Cranberry]

I always like the Canadian promo so much better... they're so dramatic:

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Sneak peek:

[Valny]

From TVGUIDE.com

 

Sarah goes back to old habits to cope with her decisions and Cosima attempts a Hail Mary back at the lab.

[Primetimer]

After a weak start this season, the brother-sestra comes through in the clinch.

View the full article

[mjc570]

What a colossal waste of time.  Except for the 20 sec of Delphine news (which was hardly a surprise) and Mika contacting Kira at the very end (without actually saying anything), there was no plot advancement at all.  It was nice to see Beth, even if briefly, but - so what?  Sarah reverts to her drug/drunk/sex ways - so what?  Cosima starts to put the bot in herself - but doesn't.  S is giving up on Sarah - but doesn't.  Rachel is Rachel - nothing new in that part of the story line.  I guess the point of the episode was to show them moving forward (finally) after Kendal's death - but that could have been done a lot more efficiently.  If I were S, I would hardly have been making breakfast for Sarah.  What would have totally redeemed it for me was if the club singer had turned out to be a clone.

[Valny]

Quote

If I were S, I would hardly have been making breakfast for Sarah.

  I think I said in my post for last episode something like I didn't see S forgiving Sarah anytime soon. Guess I was wrong. I thought S would be less forgiving and pissed off for a longer time.

I liked the ep, I suppose some of it was just character study thing.

Didn't expect the cops to burst in during Gemma's party and arrest Donnie.(looks like some comedy hijinks for him next ep)

I don't care how many times I've seen it, finger sucking scenes are not sexy to me. Because all I think is: germs, germs GERMS!!!! Unless maybe the finger is dipped in chocolate! :)

Didn't expect Art to get first crack at Duko. So deserved that. Can Mrs. S be far behind?!

You know, last ep I made sure to look away when Duko shoots Kendell(I hate gun/shooting scenes like that) then this ep they show the Cosima's flashes and then I see a MUCH closer view of her getting shot in the damn head.  Crap, I was not expecting that.

Before Felix said anything about Delphine being alive, I thought the more they keep mentioning her being dead, the more I believe she's alive, so to probably not many people's surprise, it sure looks like is, now we just need to also know who carried her off and where. Maybe it was Shay. She's tiny, but maybe she's strong? She was in the army after all!  But we have to wait until they decide to throw us more crumbs about what Krystal saw.  Speaking of....

The writers were really vague-ing it up or stretching it out when they had Felix say to Cosima..."Somehow during Krystal's misguided but oddly effective investigation...." that Delphine was still alive. Heh, I like the "somehow" part. I'm looking forward to what the hell they come up with for the "somehow.

It was making me a little nuts when Scott was trying to get Cosima to come out of the locked room telling her to answer her phone because Felix wanted to tell her something important, and I was saying to myself, just tell her it's about Delphine for pete's sake!!  It felt like it was so long to mention that. I know, dramatic build up and all, but gah, frustrating!  Felix could have told Scott just tell her the "Delphine was still alive" message if  they really wanted to get  her to stop what she was doing right away.  Again, I know...dramatic build up.

I hope they go somewhere good with the Rachael storyline because so far, her stuff is the least interesting to me...kind of drags the rest of the ep down

 

When Rachel came down the stairs calling for Susan, I thought maybe she had killed herself and Rachel would find her. But....

The white swan at the end...THE HELL?

Edited May 31, 2016 by Valny

[TaraS1]

I don't know what was up with that episode, but the writing felt completely off to me. Way off. Everything felt forced and weird, the dialogue was weak, the scenes were choppy and rushed, it was just bizarre. And a really disappointing follow up to last week's powerful episode. So strange. 

[MissL]

I hated watching Sarah's night out but ill admit I was crying when the scene cut between Cosima with the bot and Sarah on the bridge. Combine that with Alison crying earlier....they are all at such low points. Found myself wishing Sarah and Beth could have actually known each other.  And Really wish we could have some scenes with the sestras together, they seem so isolated from each other.

[Brn2bwild]

How did Sarah not (a) black out or (b) puke her guts out following her bender?  Her words didn't even slur.

[godonlyknows]

What is it about Beth and Cosima's faces? I only need to look at them and tear up these days.

[Kaboom 2.0]

Was I the only person hoping one (or all) of Evie's goons standing behind her during her and Susan's Skype chat would kill her mid-gloat? I'll rewatch this ep 'cause I missed a few things but I thought S and Sarah just sitting together quietly, holding hands, at the end of the ep was so moving.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I'm okay with not much moving the plot forward this week because I felt like the point of this episode was to show the effect of Kendall's death on the different characters. Sarah is trying to drink and fuck the pain away. Alison, as per usual, is holding it all in, but just barely. Cosima is completely falling apart. Scott is rallying to try to find a way to salvage their research and find a cure. Donnie is trying to help Alison find a way to let out her sorrow. And poor Felix is putting out fires left and right! I was expecting Alison to call Felix to tell him that Donnie was arrested while he was on the phone with Cosima and Sarah. That guy is getting run ragged.

Heh, it's a good thing that Cosima's guess about Kendall's killer being the creepy cop was correct. Imagine if Art had kicked the shit out of the wrong guy. "Sorry, my bad! I had you mixed up with some other creepy guy!"

I've been questioning why Dizzy was helping MK and Sarah so at least now we know his original motivation. I wasn't sure how to read his reaction to finding out that Sarah has a kid though.

Normally I'm fine with being honest, but it seemed like Rachel told Charlotte she's dying out of spite. She's just a kid. Does she really need to hear that she has an incurable disease?

[mjc570]

ElectricBoogaloo:  it wasn't until reading your excellent post (sorry, I didn't register a "like" because I'm not really "okay with not much moving the plot forward" since everyone's character has already been well-established and not changed in this episode) that I realized:  None of the female characters did anything even remotely productive, but each of the men did. 

[slf]

So Sarah is bisexual or just willing to do anything for free drugs? 

Donnie calling in the priest was nice, I guess, but I'm not sure what he thought Alison would be able to tell the guy? "I'm a clone, father, and I have several sisters who are also clones and we're dying. We recently found the original we were all cloned from and had hope that we'd be cured but a group of evil scientists abducted and killed her." 

I'm glad S didn't stay too mad at Sarah; Sarah can be a fuckup but Kendall's death is not on her. Kendall being the original and the Neolutionists/Brightborn being after her isn't on Sarah. Them desperately needing to make a deal isn't on Sarah. I get that S is hurting over her mom's death and it has to hurt even more that it happened during an exchange S thought was a bad idea from the start, but just a few weeks ago S stood behind her mom with a baseball bat and said she'd gladly give her an acid bath, so.... That final scene between them was an important one. They're at their best united.

Felix was tonight's MVP. Shutting down S's bullshit with Kira, comforting Kira, going after Sarah, talking Cosima down and shedding light on Delphine's fate, getting Sarah off the bridge, "yeah, you look like Sarah's type on a bender". Hopefully after tonight he and Sarah can work through their issues because I've missed seeing them together.

Poor Cosima. She never gets a break on this show. I'm hoping either this thing with Delphine or her illness is wrapped up or progresses in a positive way before the season is over. Watching Cosima get the shit kicked out of her is getting old. Give the girl some happiness. ETA: So she and Scott are going to work some magic science shit on that bot, right? I didn't understand half of what people were saying about what the bots do, what their effect on the host is, but it can be used to maybe treat her disease?

And ew, did Ira call Susan "mother" when he's been sleeping with her? EW.

I still don't really care about Rachel. I'd much rather know what Helena is up to.

Edited May 27, 2016 by slf

[Cyranetta]

After the destructive movement at the end of the last ep, this one was driven by the movement of building, a painful struggle against destructive forces, both exterior and interior.

There were visual moments lingering on buildings: Kira's castle mural, Cosima's “hothouse box”, wherever Rachel is being held, Alison's home, the claustrophobic bar, the cityscape seen from the bridge where Sarah nearly gives up. Buildings are shelter. (There were also verbal references - “the glue that's holding us all together;” “overbuilt that”...)

But a sense of shelter comes in other ways. The building activity that made up the drama was less physical than social, where the materials are harder to identify and maneuver successfully.

Rachel is fighting to feel like an integral part of a family or organization, even as she fights to regain a sense of personal physical integrity.

Family and friends are shelter, and deprivation is dangerous, so both Sarah and Cosima nearly almost come to grief.

Alison tries to take shelter in religious and cultural ritual, but those structures are fragile against the forces Neolution is bringing to bear. For some reason she cannot think of Donnie as the emotional shelter she needs.

Sarah's intent on smashing her social structure, thinking she doesn't deserve it. This ep has made specific reference to the Leda myth, but what Sarah's binging calls to mind is less Leda than Dionysus' Baccantes in an intoxicated and destructive frenzy. Sarah courts her own destruction, but hers is likely to drag in that of the other clones, Kira, Mrs. S., Felix, Art... The intercutting between Sarah in a frenzy, and Allison desperately trying to keep her birthday ritual on track was striking.

Cosima, who uses research as building blocks, is desperately trying to rebuild her health by making a potentially destructive experiment on herself. Her main mistake seems to be narrowing her social structure to just Delphine, and one of the lovely moments was Scott's dignified defense of his place in her life and work.

Felix is the mason who gets the Sarah-keystone glued back into the family and redirects Cosima.

Stray thoughts:

When one discovers one's cloneship, mirrors must be truly creepy to use.

Institutions in the world of OB are usually subversions of what are supposed to be helpful structures (Duka in the police department, for example).

The closed hands between S and Sarah was a lovely way to end, and approached the mealtime ritual of saying Grace.

The swan hallucination(?) for Rachel is unnerving, not just because it would be unnerving to see a very big swan gliding calmly across the living room carpet, but because it refers back to the Leda myth, where the swan was Zeus either seducing or raping Leda. So is there a Zeus to be revealed ?

[Valny]

2 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

 

I've been questioning why Dizzy was helping MK and Sarah so at least now we know his original motivation. I wasn't sure how to read his reaction to finding out that Sarah has a kid though.

 

I forgot already, what did Dizzy say?

[Not Beth]

This episode was very slow and not much really happened. It only maybe got interesting in the last ten minutes with Cosima's attempt at a self-implant and Sarah's bridge chat with Ghost Beth whilst Felix sought to help both Cosima and Sarah.

I guess this was mainly a transitional episode, and that's why not much happened. I did enjoy seeing how each of the main three clones (Sarah, Cosima and Alison) reacted to Kendall's death. They each had their own ways of grieving. And it was also nice to get an insight into what Sarah's lifestyle may have been like before the very first episode happened.

Really didn't care too much for MK interrupting Kira's Minecraft game.

The fact that the writer's totally had Felix and Art forget to bring up Krystal's revelation until the end of the episode is sort of understandable since the news of Kendall's death probably pushed that to the back of their minds - but was still annoying to wait so long to hear that Delphine might be alive.

Also, I thought Ira had actually died at the end of the previous episode from his overdose and then when I saw Ari Millen's name still in the title sequence, I thought we might have another Castor or Mark return, but nope, Ira's overdose was "ineffective" as Rachel put it.

[godonlyknows]

1 hour ago, slf said:

So she and Scott are going to work some magic science shit on that bot, right? I didn't understand half of what people were saying about what the bots do, what their effect on the host is, but it can be used to maybe treat her disease?

If I'm getting this correct, each maggot bot is slightly different and somehow provides specific gene therapy for the individual it's been put inside. However, with Sarah, they were trying to use the bot to isolate which gene causes the genetic defects in the clones by switching things on and off to see which ones make her sick. Cosima's hoping it does the opposite - rather than active the defective gene she wanted the bot to deactivate it. Possibly.

1 hour ago, slf said:

So Sarah is bisexual or just willing to do anything for free drugs? 

I've honestly read too much fanfic that my brain didn't even consider her only being in it for the drugs but it does make more sense.

[Cranberry]

I haven't read any fanfic and she seemed attracted to the girl to me. I wouldn't necessarily label her as bisexual, though.

[slf]

8 hours ago, godonlyknows said:

If I'm getting this correct, each maggot bot is slightly different and somehow provides specific gene therapy for the individual it's been put inside. However, with Sarah, they were trying to use the bot to isolate which gene causes the genetic defects in the clones by switching things on and off to see which ones make her sick. Cosima's hoping it does the opposite - rather than active the defective gene she wanted the bot to deactivate it. Possibly.

Ah, okay, now I understand where they're going with this. When Cosima was cutting into her face I was "wtf is this supposed to help?!" So thanks for clearing up my confusion.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

10 hours ago, Valny said:

I forgot already, what did Dizzy say?

He had a friend with a facebot which was his motivation in researching what they did and how to remove them. 

[shapeshifter]

21 hours ago, Valny said:

...It was making me a little nuts when Scott was trying to get Cosima to come out of the locked room...[1]

...The white swan at the end...THE HELL?[2]

1 Don't they keep a screw driver (and other basic tools) handy? Just unscrew the the screws holding the doorknob on. Hmmm. Now that I think of it, my ex never thought of that either. Maybe it's a solution more readily considered by physically weak, diminutive women.

2 Steganographic eye implant? I dunno.

 

20 hours ago, Brn2bwild said:

How did Sarah not (a) black out or (b) puke her guts out following her bender?  Her words didn't even slur.

I know! The only excuse would be a line about the clones having a high alcohol tolerance.

 

10 hours ago, Cyranetta said:

...The closed hands between S and Sarah was a lovely way to end, and approached the mealtime ritual of saying Grace...

Totally telegraphed with the direction and camera angle. I don't get the significance though. Maybe being thankful for what they have (each other)?

[ganesh]

I didn't have a problem with this episode. Sarah has been carrying the weight in large part; Felix said as much this episode. 

I'm incredulous that Cosima didn't have a third drive for her data. That was the most unbelievable thing to me out of all that.

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

I know! The only excuse would be a line about the clones having a high alcohol tolerance.

I've seen non clones put that down without much of a problem irl. I've done some damage myself, so I didn't see a problem. 

I'm hoping Rachel is plotting a long game. 

Donnie telling the ghost story was all sorts of awesome. 

I'm assuming the white swan is the opposite of a black swan. 

Edited May 28, 2016 by ganesh

[Lady Calypso]

I was ok with this episode putting a temporary halt on all the drama, because we kind of needed it. I keep remembering that the whole series has taken place in a six month time span. That's not a lot of time for all the events that have happened. In a way, it was nice to have a character based episode, one focusing on the fallout. We got to see each character reacting to Kendall's death, and reacting to the fact that the cure for the clones is gone. It's a HUGE thing that just happened. It would have felt wrong if we didn't see each clone reacting to this. 

Starting off with Alison's reaction, it fits perfectly with her character to want to push them aside for her family. Yet she still got to have a breakdown and we got to see how she's really handling things. The only way she can cope is throwing herself into other work. She wants to be the strong one, but the fact that she can't is very telling. Alison has felt separated from the Leda/Castor storyline, much like Helena has been (which...you know, kind of makes sense why Helena stayed with the Hendrixes. She's more similar to Alison than they think) so it was nice to let her react in such an Alison way. And we got to see Donnie try to comfort her and be there for her. He's such a supportive husband. I do worry about his time in prison, though. As funny as his arrest scene was (geez, go overboard much with the arrest?), I'm wondering how it's going to affect Alison's storyline, especially with Neolutionist Duko being involved. 

Rachel...well, there isn't much to say about her, other than I really think she has a plan. I'm wondering if it has to do with her separating Charlotte and Susan's bond. And that swan thing in the end? My first thought was that it's foreshadowing Rachel's death. You know, swan song and all. But whatever it was, I'm curious if it has to do with her eye implant and how important it will become to more than just Rachel. 

I feel so bad for Cosima and Sarah. Both are them are definitely the most affected by all of this. Cosima because of the illness killing her, and Sarah because of her deep involvement with Leda. Both of them were definitely going off the deep end, but I am happy that it was Felix and Scott who helped to bring them back from it. Cosima being that willing to risk her life with the bot was heartbreaking. But of course, she heard Delphine was possibly alive, which gave her hope and enough strength to put the bot down. I think that's all she really needs; hope that things can get better. Plus, her love for Delphine. 

I'm really happy that Felix is back in on the action. His relationships with all the clones is so important, because they all trust him and it would have been a shame if Adele had taken him away from all of that. I got his need to find answers for himself, but it was just a shame that he had to pull away from his family to do that. I really did miss his relationship with Sarah, in particular. It's the fact that he immediately wanted to help her once he found out that Sarah might have run away again. His insistence that she wasn't like that anymore, even with only six months passing since she came back and got into all of this, goes to show his love for his sister, even when they were fighting. 

I, too, questioned if Sarah was bisexual or not, but I guess it doesn't really matter. She was on a spiral, wanted to forget, which meant drinking and drugs. I just think she seemed more into it with the girl anyhow. But seeing her go through a night bender was hard to watch, especially with Dizzy being around. I just think that since she has been so involved in the Leda clone story, she has put a lot of the weight on her shoulders. With Kendall's death and Siobhan being mad at her, it just came crashing down. She even began seeing Beth, for crying out loud. I think it's important for Sarah, for her own health, to take a step back and take a little break. I know she won't, but I'm hoping after this season is done, they'll let Sarah take a mini vacation with Kira, Felix, and Siobhan to a place that's not Iceland. Just get MK to handle the arrangements and send them down to the Bahamas or something. Hell, take the others as well. 

As for other points, I really loved Art throwing the first punch to Duko. He really needed to do that, especially with the revelation of his involvement in Beth's death. Also, MK's back and communicating with Kira? Ok, we'll see where this goes. Also, something is really up with Ira. I don't know what it is, but I'm not loving him so much. 

Edited May 28, 2016 by Lady Calypso

[Ravenya003]

SHE'S AAALLIVVVVVE.

I applauded and then I ugly cried. The weird thing is, I was never an uber-fan of Delphine or her relationship with Cosima - but dammit, I've watched so many lesbian/bisexual female characters die this year alone that I NEEDED this win. 

Personally I liked the episode. Sure, nothing much happened and there were a few contrivances, but after last week we definitely needed a "wind-down" episode. And though I can see the criticism of all the women falling apart and the men rallying together as a support system, I think in a show that does this well with complex female characters on a regular basis, I can handle the rare occasion in which the menfolk are the put-together ones. 

You're all gonna think I'm a complete weirdo for this, but Sarah/Dizzy was kinda hot (at least until it wasn't). Do we have any answers on where the heck Cal is though? (And don't say Game of Thrones).

I was pretty wrung out by the end, so when the swan turned up, I said aloud: "Oh God, NOW what's happening?"

[thuganomics85]

Mainly a filler episode, but I didn't mind it too much, since I thought Tatiana Maslany nailed everyone's post "Kendal's dead and we are sooooo doomed!" reactions, and it went the way as expected.  Sarah just spirals out of control and almost kills herself.  Alison just tries to hold it on it and put on a strong front, even though you can see it all brimming underneath.  And then Cosima trying to find other options, which include potentially putting her own life at risk.  The characters are consistent; I'll certainly give them that.

Am surprised they already had Mrs S. move past her anger towards Sarah, to a more acceptance stage, but certainly did get one low blow in with the "You came to me an orphan.  That's all you'll ever be!" line.  Ouch!  Just ouch.  Way to really dig the knife in, S.

Also liked Scott's "Some offense taken" line, when Cosima lashed out and basically undermined him for not being Delphine.  I know she was upset and she truly does respect and like him, but I'm glad he made sure that she knew he was hurt by it.

At least Art got to beat the shit out of Duko, which was well-deserved.

Oh, shit!  Donnie's going to jail!  I don't see Donnie lasting very long in prison.  Alison though, would rule the cell block before the day was done.

What does M.K. want with Kira?

Rachel's eye is glitching or something, and she's now seeing some kind of goose?  I have no idea what to make of all that.

Did like Felix getting to be a bit of a hero at finding ways to stop both Cosima and Sarah at the same time.  I'm glad that despite all their issues this season, he truly still cares for Sarah and didn't even hesitate to hunt her down, once he realized what exactly happened between her and Mrs. S.

[Olivia Y]

I don't mind a slower breather episode to follow the heavy stuff from last week. One thing I didn't like was the way they tried to drag out the suspense over whether or not Cosima was going to pick up the phone. I mean, if Felix had said "tell her to pick up, it's about Delphine", she would've picked up much sooner. It just seemed so contrived for him not to give that information first. Was there any reason Felix couldn't trust Scott with that information?

Also, I thought it was believable that S forgave Sarah, she is her daughter after all, and she had a scare that Sarah was going to kill herself, so that would've doused the anger somewhat.

[Captanne]

Maybe Mrs. S was remembering that time she brokered Helena for Sarah?  There seems to be a little (not entirely apt) hypocrisy in her anger at Sarah.

I thought the episode was one of the better ones.  I enjoyed, particularly, Beth's weepy sigh on the bridge when Sarah cried, "When will I stop seeing you?!" and her response, "Soon.  I hope."  (I paraphrase.)  Clearly, Beth is tired of being the ghost in the machine that is keeping Sarah going.  (Which, depending on what one believes about ghosts, means Sarah is tired of being driven by her own sense of guilt -- at least the Beth-shaped one.)

The bender was highly entertaining and if Sarah and Dizzy had ended up any other way (with her sloppy attempt at a blow job and his inability to respond physically), I would have called bullshit of the highest degree.  Neither of them were in any condition for anything remotely effective or meaningful.  But I think I complained early on in this show that Sarah rarely shows anywhere near the level of intoxication she should based on what they show her taking.  (First season, she was a drinking fool and never, never drunk.)

thuganomics85 -- that's a swan.  The reference is to the mythological story that the "Leda" clones are named for.  Zeus comes down in the form of a swan and rapes Leda -- the artists of the Renaissance and the Enlightenment thought that was just the most fascinating thing ever and everyone from Michelangelo to Rubens painted it.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leda_and_the_Swan  When Rachel opens that tome -- which is practically the only furniture in the room aside from the sofa and a bureau -- she looks at a 19th Century plate of Leda and the Swan included in the book by the "founder of the Neolution" who was a Darwinist.  So, that's the connection to the swan.

[marceline]

I think Mrs. S and Art have some really wonderful chemistry. Not romantic but not quite familial. They're kind of like fellow soldiers in a crazy war.

Felix finally getting his head out of his own ass almost redeemed him in my eyes for bringing Adele to the safe house. And how much of a dick was Dizzy for not relaying Felix's message to Sarah?

I realized in this episode that Donnie and Felix now play very similar roles in Clone Club. Donnie is every bit the Brother Sestra Felix is. They've probably interacted with almost all the same clones (except for Felix/Tony).

The cops busting in on the kids party was too ridiculous even for this show.

[kat165]

This ep to me was about the fallout from Kendell's death which I think was necessary & several things were set up that might be explored later.

1. Beth telling Sarah that they're connected aside from the clone thing. How? Why is Sarah having Beth hallucinations? Will she still have them when she sobers up?

2. Dizzy told Sarah that his friend with the bot died - I think that was the guy found dead in the woods in the first ep of the season - but there is more to his story about why he's hanging around - he implied this. What is it?

3. Dizzy is told Sarah has a kid. Does he do anything with this info? Does it make any difference to him? See above.

3. Arthur beat up Duko (yeah!), but surely there will be some repercussions from this. You can't just go around beating up your coworkers without consequences.

4. Delphine possibly not dead. Who carried her off and what did they do with her? And did she survive? I think her death is still a possibility.

5. Yes, what does MK want with Kira?

6. The Neo woman whose name escapes me right now has been sick, has some sort of wounds on her side which she mentions to yet another creepy doctor. What are their next steps in terms on her health? What is that creepy dr. up to and can the Neo woman really trust him?

7. What happens to Donnie in jail? What happens in regards to the drug dealing? (And why wasn't Alison arrested to?) Which reminds me, how did Duko know about the cell phone in Maggie Chun's hand? (He mentions this Art.)

8. Rachel and the swan, what's that about? And what was Rachel's reasoning behind telling Charlotte that she's sick and going to die?

So far I've only watched the ep once so there might be other stuff I'm forgetting. Besides, where's Helena?

This ep might have been slow but I didn't think it wasn't a waste/sucked. Still better than most of last season especially those endless scenes of the desert and Castor and that woman doctor and Helena in a jail cell.

When Sarah was coming on to Dizzy I finally understood what the hell she'd been doing with Vic who was also creepy and scuzzy. Booze/drugs, poor decisions! Such huge steps down from Cal and Paul.

Edited May 28, 2016 by kat165

[BaskingsharkGTX]

6 hours ago, marceline said:

And how much of a dick was Dizzy for not relaying Felix's message to Sarah?

To be fair to Dizzy, he doesn't know who Felix is and for all he knows, Felix could be a Neolution villain, so I didn't have a problem with him not telling Felix that Sarah was right outside. As for not relaying the message, I suspect he had more reason than we know to want to keep Sarah around to try and find out more about her wormbot removal, so either figured that if he gave her the message and Felix actually was her brother, she'd run off and find him or if he wasn't, she'd be spooked and might well disappear anyway.  My guess is that Dizzy actually has a wormbot of his own too - and also that he could possibly have been MK's Watcher. 

[MissLucas]

Dear Show

Chekhov's gun is an iron rule (even when it's a rifle) - I was really hoping that you made me suffer through all that misery in order to reward me with Mrs S putting that rifle to good use (either on Evie or Detective Duko I don't care). But all I got was scrambled eggs - not cool.

Also: team science really did not have any backups *sigh* I suppose that's because this season everything has to be about those damned bots. Plot requirement hands idiot ball to the supposedly smartest people of the team - also not cool.

I suppose Rachel's eye mal-functioning is further proof that Susan is just not as good as she thinks she is/was. I'm glad Felix is back in form and that we got a glimpse of MK - but where the hell is Helena???

[vesperholly]

54 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

Dear Show

Chekhov's gun is an iron rule (even when it's a rifle) - I was really hoping that you made me suffer through all that misery in order to reward me with Mrs S putting that rifle to good use (either on Evie or Detective Duko I don't care). But all I got was scrambled eggs - not cool.

Wasn't S's gun in the promo for next week's episode? Or was it also promo'd for this episode?

[SomeTameGazelle]

I laughed a bit too much when Donnie told Alison that Gemma wouldn't care if something wasn't symmetrical because I had only today seen a bit of an episode of Odd Squad where the villain was obsessed with symmetry. (Millie Davis who plays Gemma is Ms O on Odd Squad.)

Re Sarah's sexuality, I thought it seemed like she made out with the woman mainly in order to appeal to the man. She seemed to keep checking for his reaction.

[Not Beth]

Maybe Cosima and Scott made no backups for plot convenience so as when/if Delphine shows up alive, she'll have the backup data they need, even if her research is a month or two behind. Or maybe Susan and Rachel might be willing to compromise with the sisters by giving them their own research to work from?

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Closer Look: The Island of Doctor Moreau:

[beeble]

Oh fudge.

The time sync seemed a little off. While Sarah was having her bar bender, Alison was planning and then hosting a slumber party. Knowing Alison doesn't keep rock star hours, it just seemed off. Maybe Sarah's bender started around 6 pm but I doubt that a band would be playing around the time that a slumber party would still have the other moms and dads. And it seemed as though another one of the time intercuts - either Mrs. S's home or still at Alison's place where there was natural light shining through. And you may ask yourself, what does it matter? To which I answer, "probably not much."

"Stop stalking me." "You're in my place."

[Ailianna]

On ‎5‎/‎27‎/‎2016 at 8:58 PM, shapeshifter said:

On ‎5‎/‎27‎/‎2016 at 0:24 AM, Brn2bwild said:

How did Sarah not (a) black out or (b) puke her guts out following her bender?  Her words didn't even slur.

I know! The only excuse would be a line about the clones having a high alcohol tolerance.

Sarah has a history of heavy partying.  And it's been only a short time since she stopped that lifestyle, so I wasn't surprised she slid right back into it.  And it was a fair amount of alcohol, but we only saw one line of coke (not that I am IN ANY WAY advocating use of cocaine!), and if she's used to using both, and both together, while she still shouldn't be driving or making important decisions, she's not going to have the immediate reactions that someone not used to using both would have.

On ‎5‎/‎27‎/‎2016 at 11:07 AM, godonlyknows said:

 

On ‎5‎/‎27‎/‎2016 at 9:34 AM, slf said:

So Sarah is bisexual or just willing to do anything for free drugs? 

I've honestly read too much fanfic that my brain didn't even consider her only being in it for the drugs but it does make more sense.

I think it harkens back to a couple lines that Cosima had in the first season.  One was to Delphine about the fluidity of sexuality, and the other line to Rachel--"My sexuality is not the most interesting thing about me."  I think this show follows the theory that very few people are absolutely straight or gay, and that most actually fall along a continuum.  Plus, I see Sarah as the type of person who enjoys doing things that "bad girls" do.  I think the girl felt safer to her to start with, but she was definitely flirting and sexing with the guy too.  I think she started getting sexual with them before she knew the drugs were on offer, although she might have hoped it would be part of the party.

Re Rachel's eye--I thought the pixilation of the swan at the end made it clear that it was an image her eye was sending to her brain, not a hallucination or glitch.  Especially with the comments that her eye came from Evie's side of things; I think someone is hacking her eye to send her a message.  And we did see some other hacking in this episode...

With the preview of Kira saying she could feel the sisters, I kept hoping she couldn't feel Sarah's bender.  Oh my god--talk about something you shouldn't share with your child!

I liked this episode, as I've enjoyed the whole season, because I like the characters, and I thought there was a lot of character-driven content in this one.  Yes, we do know these people and how they are likely to respond...but if we never see their reactions, everyone complaints that there's no fallout or consequences to the crazy, violent, traumatic events.  That's what this episode was to me--fallout.

[shapeshifter]

50 minutes ago, beeble said:

Oh fudge.

The time sync seemed a little off. While Sarah was having her bar bender, Alison was planning and then hosting a slumber party. Knowing Alison doesn't keep rock star hours, it just seemed off. Maybe Sarah's bender started around 6 pm but I doubt that a band would be playing around the time that a slumber party would still have the other moms and dads. And it seemed as though another one of the time intercuts - either Mrs. S's home or still at Alison's place where there was natural light shining through. And you may ask yourself, what does it matter? To which I answer, "probably not much."

"Stop stalking me." "You're in my place."

Good point about the time of day. I guess we have to imagine some text across the bottom of the screen that reads "earlier that day" or "next day while Sarah is sleeping it off."

[Captanne]

12 hours ago, MissLucas said:

Dear Show

Chekhov's gun is an iron rule (even when it's a rifle) - I was really hoping that you made me suffer through all that misery in order to reward me with Mrs S putting that rifle to good use (either on Evie or Detective Duko I don't care). But all I got was scrambled eggs - not cool.

Also: team science really did not have any backups *sigh* I suppose that's because this season everything has to be about those damned bots. Plot requirement hands idiot ball to the supposedly smartest people of the team - also not cool.

I suppose Rachel's eye mal-functioning is further proof that Susan is just not as good as she thinks she is/was. I'm glad Felix is back in form and that we got a glimpse of MK - but where the hell is Helena???

Fabulous!!  I can't believe Team Science™ didn't have a back up -- so much so that it didn't even occur to me to ask until it was immediately brought up here.  

Also, I "viewed" Rachel's Swan less of an example of Susan's incompetency (to any degree) and more to God ( in His many manifestations:  The Force, Gaia, David Bowie, Whatever) saying, "You can't play with my creations and not expect Me to dabble in the mix."  I guess it's just a question of "perspective." 

 

ETA:  I think I have a fangirl crush on Dizzy.  (First, I find him very attractive in a "bad boy, maybe" sort of way* but also, man did he come through for Sarah.  Even though WE know Felix is her brother and is fucking amazing, Dizzy doesn't know that.  He's got Sarah's back in an amazing way -- drunk, high, or sober.  I think I like him more than I like Cal.) 

*Sons of Anarchy is an example of a crush that is strictly Bad Boy.  We don't know enough about Dizzy to know if he qualifies on that level.  I kind of hope he doesn't -- which is nice because I would prefer that he just be sexy in a groovy kind of way rather than in a drug dealing, porno running, mass-murdering kind of way.

Edited May 29, 2016 by Captanne

[Mabinogia]

I have liked Dizzy since he first showed up. I'm not sure entirely why but I've trusted he was a good guy from the start. At first when he wouldn't tell Felix where Sarah was I was like "WTF dude!" but s people here have pointed out, he doesn't know who Felix is or if Felix can be trusted or if Sarah would want to see Felix.

I definitely prefer him to Cal who I never really cared about. Cal was always just there. Dizzy feels like he could really get involved in all of this.

I like that they had S furious at Sarah for Kendall's death because, although it wasn't really Sarah's fault, it's human to want to blame someone. And I love more that, once she got over the anger stage she was there for Sarah when she came back. I love Mrs. S. She's a total badass but also very capable of compassion. I love that she's kind of the mama bear to all the clones now.

I can't wait to find out who took Delphine away. I wasn't exactly surprised she is possibly alive, but I hadn't given much thought to how she got away or where she's been this whole time.

This season feels the most like season 1 and that makes me very, very happy. I love that we've kind of gone back to the beginning.

[kat165]

Ailiana, that's a great idea about the possibility of Rachel's eye being hacked by Evie & her cohorts/team.

Edited May 29, 2016 by kat165

[Not Beth]

Maybe MK carried Delphine away from the car park. She'd have to be wearing her sheep mask of course, keeping Krystal out of the loop on seeing people that look just like her. MK's good at staying hidden. It could make sense that she'd be able to keep the ex-head of DYAD (or whatever Delphine's season 3 job title was) who was someone's target hidden away.

[Enigma X]

I just finished watching this episode, and I think what bothered me most is what bothers me in most modern shows: the overload of smug baddies. It is is like nails on a chalkboard to me.

[Cranberry]

1 hour ago, kat165 said:

Ailiana, that's a great idea about the possibility of Rachel's eye being hacked by Evie & her cohorts/team.

Or by MK.

[MissLucas]

1 hour ago, Enigma X said:

I just finished watching this episode, and I think what bothered me most is what bothers me in most modern shows: the overload of smug baddies. It is is like nails on a chalkboard to me.

I was more bothered by some of the convoluted dialogue. It was already a stretch that Felix had not immediately told Cosima (and the rest) about Delphine but then we have Scott calling Felix to tell him that Cosima is about to do something 'medically crazy' to herself - why not simply say 'she's about to shove a wormbot in her face'?

Then we have Felix trying to call Cosima and Scott banging on the door urging her to pick up her phone because Felix has something important to tell her. It makes no sense at all that Felix is not immediately yelling into his phone after Scott told him about Cosima's plan: 'Tell her to drop the crazy worm - Delphine is still alive!'

Yes, we got more drama out of it that way but it was at the cost of common sense.

[possibilities]

Quote

It was making me a little nuts when Scott was trying to get Cosima to come out of the locked room telling her to answer her phone,that Felix was calling  to tell her something important, and I was saying to myself, just tell her it's about Delphine for pete's sake!! It took him so long to mention that. I know, dramatic build up and all, but gah, frustrating!  Felix could have also told Scott to tell her Delphine was still alive if  they really wanted to get to her right away.  Again, I know...dramatic build up.

I feel the same way. It is already plenty dramatic to see Cosima crying, and then cutting herself and toying with the bot, and then see her receive the news. We didn't need the stupid of no one mentioning the news involved Delphine and her dithering about answering the phone.

I was horrified by S basically disowning Sarah. That is an unforgiveable crime for a mother to say that to her daughter. I also thought it was out of character, and as was said upthread, very hypocritical. Then claiming Sarah ran away rather than that S sent her away? Unfair.

No back up of data is the most ridiculous lazy writing I've seen on this show, and worse than the BS on many others, too. Don't make your people stupid. We know they aren't.

I also marvel that Evie didn't notice Cosima took the bot (or that the bot was missing). I have to assume that they wanted her to take it. Evie is just not that disorganized. But then, no back ups means anything goes.

I was very glad that Scotty took offense and said so. He's demonstrated an incredible level of devotion and basically sacrificed his entire life out of loyalty to the sestrahood. He deserves better than total dismissal. I just hope they are NOT going to do a Scotty is in love with Cosima reveal-- I have loved that he's in it for integrity, friendship, compassion, science, justice-- just keep that relationship platonic.

I didn't think this episode was a waste at all. I think there is much more to the show than breakneck plotting of events. Character episodes are not just to establish who everyone is, but to let us be with them as they are. Kendall's death was a huge, huge event. There should be reverberations and time to react and feel.

To the person who asked upthread: Evie said she had shingles (the stuff on her skin) and that it was a result of taking the drugs she'd been taking all her life to control whatever her "congenital defect" was.

I think it's interesting that the men were sensible, sober, rescuing, and active this week, while the women grieved, but I think it's because they've set up all the non-family allies to be male. The women are usually very lucid, active, and in charge on this show, so I don't think it's just a general attitude that the ladies are emotional messes and the men are action-oriented. I do wish they'd stop making all the allies male, though. And even in this episode, the Rachel-Susan-Evie triad did not match the passive/active pattern. And Donnie was more a victim than Allison at the end.

Donnie telling the ghost story was amazeballs. We never got to really see him be a dad before as far as I recall.

The arrest seemed to be orchestrated by Duko? I hope Donnie isn't going to be a hostage they use for leverage. Why would he be the only one arrested, and not Allison also, if the investigation was legit?

And where oh where is Helena?

Edited May 29, 2016 by possibilities

[slf]

Dizzy had good reason not to tell Felix where Sarah was but he had no good reason to not relay the message, imo. He seemed to believe Felix about Sarah having a daughter. So if he hears that there's something important going on with her kid, if he's a good guy, that's something he pipes up with. (I'm not saying he's a villain just that I don't feel like he has her back. I think he's got his own angle, which is fine.)

[dampfire]

On 5/28/2016 at 3:15 PM, kat165 said:

6. The Neo woman whose name escapes me right now has been sick, has some sort of wounds on her side which she mentions to yet another creepy doctor. What are their next steps in terms on her health? What is that creepy dr. up to and can the Neo woman really trust him?

7. What happens to Donnie in jail? What happens in regards to the drug dealing? (And why wasn't Alison arrested to?) Which reminds me, how did Duko know about the cell phone in Maggie Chun's hand? (He mentions this Art.)

6)  Evie.  She doesn't have "wounds" as such.  She has shingles.  The condition (which can be extremely painful) is, as Evie describes it, "A side effect of leaning on immunosuppressants most of my life."  As far as Evie's pending treatment goes, Dr. Van Lier explains that the outlook is good.  "You have pending approval for the world's first gene therapy implant," Van Lier says.  "It's affordable, it's effective....You'll be first to take the new generation of bot this week. Those shingles will be a thing of the past."

Hard to say at this point if Van Lier is a major player...or whether or not he can be trusted.  He certainly seems to be Team Evie.  Might be significant though that, when Susan and Rachel have their Skype conference with Evie, there are four people behind Evie and none of them appears (not to me anyway) to be Van Lier.  At the outset of the conference, Susan directly addresses, besides Evie, two of the others appearing on the computer screen: Laura and Raymond.  (Apparently Susan doesn't deem the other two worthy of mention.)  Van Lier's first name (Evie uses it in their meeting) is Ian.  So, all in all, it's pretty difficult to say how important Van Lier might end up being or what further part he might end up playing.  Doesn't appear though that he was important enough to be part of the conference call.  The conference call though may have been more for the suits...whereas Van Lier may be a high ranking lab coat.

7)  Looking at the drug dealing investigation in terms of a typical police investigation, you're right, kat, it doesn't make much sense that Alison isn't taken into custody too.  But Duko seems to be orchestrating the whole thing (although exactly how a "union steward" has this much sway is a little befuddling).  As such, the arrest has much less to do with the drug dealing and/or the Portuguese Massacre than it is a Neo power play.  Duko's fucking with Alison.  He's manipulatively illustrating to Alison the reach and influence of Neolution.  Alison isn't arrested for much the same reason that Evie let Cosima go in 406.  (In this ep, Cosima tells Scott, "She [Evie] had her [Kendall] killed right in front of me. She kept me alive so I could tell everybody that Kendall's... gone and Delphine's dead.")  How else to explain Duko's parting message to Alison?  "Kendall was quite a loss," he says.  I mean, what the hell does Kendall have to do with the drug bust?  And how the hell would Duko even know who Kendall was or what happened to her if he wasn't  "connected" to Neolution -- the New Order?     

As far as the "cell phone" goes...have to go back to the premiere.  

Beth's on the fire escape watching Frank and Roxie perform the mysterious cheek chopping "procedure" on Aaron (Trina's boyfriend).  Duko joins Frank and Roxie and is there when the the bot is actually extracted.  Beth, still watching of course, freaks when she sees the bot and backs away.  She bumps into something...creating a clatter.  Realizing she's given her presence away (as Duko moves toward the window), Beth hastily retreats down the fire escape.  Duko dashes out of the room...presumably heading outside to find out who was spying.  Beth ducks in an alleyway, hears someone behind her, then turns and shoots Maggie Chen.  

It's easy enough to imagine Duko hearing the gunshot at or about the time he's exiting the building.  Just as easy to imagine him cautiously approaching and secreting himself away until he can determine what happened.  When he sees Beth and Maggie Chen's body, he decides to hang back and observe.  He sees Beth make a phone call.  He witnesses Art's arrival and the subsequent planting of the cell phone.  That (or something like it) is what I figure happened anyway, kat.  (Hell, I don't know, Duko may have even made it out of the building in time to actually see Beth shoot Maggie Chen.)