S32.E14: Not Going Down Without A Fight / S32.E15: Reunion

[ProfCrash]

So Julia and Kyle are really assholes. According to them, Aubrey did nothing and played a fear based game. She had no strategy. Kyle discusses her as a nerd and someone who has not experienced the world.

Just uggghhhhhh

They both harp on her "holding Joe's hand". Because it is bad game play to find an ally that you can control and use that person. Yeah, that is sooooo awful.

Based on the Jury Speak videos, Aubrey had no chance at getting Scot, Kyle, Julia or Debbie's vote. Based on those videos, Scot and Kyle are as awful as some folks thought that they were. Julia is that shallow. Michelle won because she got along with everyone and won those last challenges. But Tai would have beaten Aubrey if it was a final two because there is no way that Scot, Kyle, Julia or Debbie were voting for Aubrey.

This might be the first time that I actually think there was a real bitter jury. I can see how Russell's bullying behavior prevented people from voting for him. He was an asshole and alienated everyone. There is no real indication that Aubrey was mean to folks. It sounds like she did not talk a lot with Julia and Kyle but she wasn't a bitch. And yet to hear Kyle and Julia talk, Aubrey was a paranoid person who had no game.

Aubrey was paranoid, Joe says that and says that Aubrey herself would say that. But she wasn't hurting people. she was over thinking things but she wasn't mean. So these high school mentality idiots fall back into the idea that they are going to reward the pretty woman who was nice to them and punish the nerd who they don't understand.

Assholes

And they are proud of it. That is what amazes me

[Cornhusker12]

My favorite moment that nobody has mentioned is when the jury realized that someone was going to be voted out and Scot and Jason were SO certain that it would be Jason. Because he's so respected and so persuasive, everyone would have been just blown away by his speech, right? Just pure overly confident self-worth, as usual. Hilarious.

Also, for someone who hates attention so much that she has to wear an oversized wig to hide her face, Sia sure likes attention enough to "interrupt" a live broadcast and hang out onstage for a long time!

[fishcakes]

1 minute ago, huskerj12 said:

My favorite moment that nobody has mentioned is when the jury realized that someone was going to be voted out and Scot and Jason were SO certain that it would be Jason. Because he's so respected and so persuasive, everyone would have been just blown away by his speech, right?

I'm only surprised that Jason still voted for Michele after that. I assumed he would be bitter that she didn't recognize his mad oratorical skills.

[Shimmergloom]

1 hour ago, JudyObscure said:

My problem with Michele is not that I don't value social games or that I think she won because she was pretty.  I think she won by default.  If there had been a great social game going on, making people laugh, helping out, etc, I think they would have shown it. We didn't hear anyone saying she was "The nicest person I've ever known" like Heidi said about Jenna. In fact we saw Scot irritated with her for not working around camp and Tai saying he just didn't feel drawn to her personality at all.

They did show her playing a good social game.  She overcame losing key alliance members like Ana, voted out Nick when he was allied with her when he wanted to go with the guys and thought he was stringing her along and overcame Julia almost screwing her over and putting her on the outs inside the alliance.  Not only that, but she formed a bond with Cydney instead of just moping when her alliance broke apart and formed enough of a bond with Aubry to convince Aubry not to vote her out.  That's a social game, Jason was voted out because he played a bad social game throwing temper tantrums when things went against him, while Michelle played a good one, whereas instead of pouring water on the fire or hiding the tools when things went against her, she instead formed new bonds with the aforementioned Cydney, Aubrey and tried with Tai(who was plotting against her).

You can even look at this and see why Tai got 0 votes.  He didn't put that effort into forming new bonds and consistently screwed over those he was aligned with.   And let's not forget he poured water on the fire and was aligned with bullies for much of the game.  And with Aubry, remember at the end when she wanted Michelle out, her and Tai were like, they need to win and shore up Cydney.  Well by then it was too late, because Michelle was already tight with Cydney. 

[blackwing]

The reunion show is useless.  Way too much time spent on Tai.  I wonder if some of the contestants go into it knowing that they won't get a chance to speak.  I now remember Darnell, who dropped the goggles as being the first out.  But the other women in the back row besides Alecia... I don't recall them at all.  Why didn't Alecia get to speak?  I wonder if Kyle and Scott had made it farther in the game if Jeff wouldn't have taken the time to address their bullying of her.  Instead, she was an afterthought.  As was Obama... I'm sure he thought he was going to get to speak and when I saw him once he had this very sad look on his face, as if realising he will easily go down into the annals of the forgotten Survivor players.

Have there been any other back row players who have gotten as much time at the reunion as Caleb did?  Normally Jeff doesn't even see them.

This whole Millenials vs. Gen X is really stupid.  The dividing line is fuzzy.... isn't this just another way of saying Older vs. Younger?  Does this mean we aren't going to get any seniors like Joe on the next season?  And where would somebody who is about 35 fit?

[NutMeg]

Two questions:

Since when was Matt the chichen named after Burnett? Wasn't it supposed to be after Tai's boyfriend?

And, more importantly: who are the two votes for Aubry? Joe and ...? 

[piequinn35]

Nutmeg, Deb and Joe voted for Aubry, brains for brains, brawn/beauty for beauty

IKR, Mark was named after Tai's bf IDK why Burnett became the reason lol

[blackwing]

10 minutes ago, ProfCrash said:

Based on the Jury Speak videos, Aubrey had no chance at getting Scot, Kyle, Julia or Debbie's vote. Based on those videos, Scot and Kyle are as awful as some folks thought that they were. Julia is that shallow. Michelle won because she got along with everyone and won those last challenges. But Tai would have beaten Aubrey if it was a final two because there is no way that Scot, Kyle, Julia or Debbie were voting for Aubrey.

Debbie voted for Aubrey.  She and Joe voted for Aubrey.  Everyone else voted for Michelle.  I think the winner was decided the second Michelle made it to the finals.  There seemed to be a clear block of four - Kyle, Scott, Julia and Nick - that were upset with the Aubrey/Tai alliance that had a direct hand in voting them out.  I don't believe Scott for an instant when he said that "most peoples votes are up in the air".  Nick himself said that the jury had already talked, and this is how they were each perceived.  They already all had their minds made up.

I think Tai made bigger moves than Michelle but Tai's problem is that he isn't very articulate.  He doesn't think before he speaks, he just opens his mouth and diarrhea comes out.  He means well, but his words are not well thought out and because of that he comes across as not advocating well for himself.

[Shimmergloom]

Joe and Debbie voted for Aubry.  Neil would have as well. 

[Wings]

11 minutes ago, huskerj12 said:

Also, for someone who hates attention so much that she has to wear an oversized wig to hide her face, Sia sure likes attention enough to "interrupt" a live broadcast and hang out onstage for a long time!

 Sia's face is all over the internet. 

http://www.stereogum.com/1739161/sias-already-recorded-a-new-album-titled-this-is-acting/news/

[NutMeg]

Thank you, piequinn35, blackwing and Shimmergloom for the confirmation of the Debbie vote.

wings707, haha, now at last I know what Sia looks like

[Special K]

For the first time in history, I have not watched the reunion.  Hell, my DVR flat out refused to play it, so I guess it thinks it sucks too much, too.  Truthfully, after reading this thread, I don't care.

When they cut to the soundstage after FTC, my first thought was, "who is that lady sitting to Tai's left?"  I did not recognize her as Michele at all.  I mean, it was like, "is one of the early boots sitting in the wrong seat?"  Once she won, and pranced off the stage in one of those horrible hi-lo hem dresses (ugh), I turned off the TV and allowed the inevitable memory loss to begin.  After this media frenzy is over I assume we will never hear of Michele again in the Survivor-sphere.  She is Vecepia 2.0.

I do hope Aubry gets another chance to play.  She was my favorite and I wanted her to win.  I was jumpy as hell during the firemaking!

[ProfCrash]

I am shocked that Deb voted for Aubrey. She spent most of her Ponderosa saying she would not vote for Aubrey.

[fishcakes]

32 minutes ago, Shimmergloom said:

And with Aubry, remember at the end when she wanted Michelle out, her and Tai were like, they need to win and shore up Cydney.  Well by then it was too late, because Michelle was already tight with Cydney. 

Even with Michele and Cydney being close, Aubry had her chance to vote out Michele the week they voted out Jason. Tai wanted Michele out, and Aubry agreed with him that Michele had to go, but caved in to Cydney, voted for Jason instead, and hung Tai out to dry on that vote. I thought it was a good example of Aubry having no clear strategy and doing whatever the last person to speak to her wants her to do. So I find poetic justice in her losing to Michele.

Edited May 19, 2016 by fishcakes

[TattleTeeny]

God damn it, Probst--you and your team can put together a logistical nightmare of a TV show complete with a bazillion complicated challenge structures but you can't figure out how to relocate a fabulous chicken to the USA to be with a guy who clearly loves him! Boo! Bah! (I mean, I say this assuming Mark the Chicken even wanted to make a big move.)

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No offense to Sia, but when Jeff said there would be a special guest at the reunion I was hoping they had flown in Mark the rooster.  Anyone other than that and I was guaranteed to be disappointed.

I actually started yelling "They brought the chicken after all!" But no.

Edited May 19, 2016 by TattleTeeny

[Alapaki]

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And yet to hear Kyle and Julia talk, Aubrey was a paranoid person who had no game.

IIRC, neither Kyle nor Julia had any real strategic discussion with Aubrey.  (Julia might've been on the periphery of a discussion or two prior to Scott's elimination, but Kyle has 0).  They're rationalizing their votes based on information they saw on the broadcast.  

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Tai wanted Michele, and Aubry agreed with him that Michele had to go, but caved in to Cydney, voted for Jason instead, and hung Tai out to dry on that vote. I thought it was a good example of Aubry having no clear strategy and doing whatever the last person to speak to her wants her to do.

Or, an example of Michelle having done the work to develop a relationship with Cydney such that Cydney would go to bat for her at that time.  That vote could've gone either way because Aubrey/Joe/Tai/Cydney still would've had the numbers to bounce Michelle/Jason (whichever one survived that vote) the following TC.  Of course, Joe's evacuation screwed that up.  But I think it's an example of Michelle having put herself in a position to survive "another 3 days", which is sometimes all you can do.

[iMonrey]

I can't believe how much prettier Michelle looked on the island without any makeup than at the reunion well fed and with the makeup gun set to "whore." 

I don't really care that much that she won, but it seems to me that Jeff really had to feed her a lot of spin at the reunion about her gameplay and strategy, which she nodded to and affirmed. It sounded like rationalization to me. 

Tai was one of the most popular players ever? Really? OK then. I've  had my say about that, no use beating a dead horse.

Given what a hot mess of cross promotion and justification the reunion show has become I shudder to think what they would do with an extra thirty minutes, so a thumbs down from me on the idea of expanding it. The time they wasted on Sia and Drew Carey was outrageous.

And finally, instead of crowing about how this season had more medical evacuations than any other - as though that were something to brag about - maybe take better care of your contestants so they don't all wind up in body bags.

[ProfCrash]

The Jury speaks videos are shot before the final tribal council. So their comments are based on what happened in the game. I have no problem with them saying "Aubrey never trued to talk to us and Michelle did so I am voting for Michelle." Then Aubrey's poor social game is what hurts her. Not the condescending bullshit that Kyle and Julia were spouting.

Scot at least had an explanation for not voting for Aubrey. She had agreed to vote out a beauty and then Peter but she back tracked on that agreement. Scot saw her as untrustworthy after that. Fair enough. I get that and I am fine with that.

Julia commented that Aubrey wrote her name down and then crossed it out and she had forgiven her for it but Aubrey was and then a string of negatives. All while smiling and giggling. It rubbed me the wrong way

[fishcakes]

1 minute ago, Alapaki said:

Or, an example of Michelle having done the work to develop a relationship with Cydney such that Cydney would go to bat for her at that time.

That too. It's not inconsistent with the fact that Aubry caved to Cydney. Aubry told Tai she wanted Michele to go and said in a confessional that she thought Michele had to go. Yet when Cydney said to her, essentially, "either you're with me or you're with Tai," Aubry went with her, even though it meant not voting out the person she wanted to vote out. I give Michele a lot of credit for solidifying an alliance with Cydney. But Aubry made a stupid move there and it came back to bite her.

[tiredofwork]

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 And finally, she could not have looked more bitter about Michele winning. Tai was smiling and hugging Michele, but Aubry went from smiling before the votes were read to immediately sour when the winner was announced, and when Jeff was talking to Michele right after the break, Aubry looked pissed. I know she has a bit of resting bitch face anyway, but there's RBF and then there's the face she was making during the reunion. 

Well shoot, Tai got a $100K ($50k for him) gift from some freak I have never, ever heard of.  All in the face of everybody else, so hell yea he was happy and hugging.

[scowl]

This was yet another season that reminded me that making good decisions doesn't help you if you aren't a likeable person. 

[piequinn35]

lol Sia is the singer of Chandelier, she is one of the best singers out there, check this out 1.2 billion views

[hyukx3]

I dont like Chandelier. I dont watch panderos videos. Can somebody please tell me why Julia is such a bitch?

[piequinn35]

She is also the singer of Titanium lol

Could be because of the 2 assholes that Julia is such a bitch. :))

[peachmangosteen]

1 hour ago, huskerj12 said:

My favorite moment that nobody has mentioned is when the jury realized that someone was going to be voted out and Scot and Jason were SO certain that it would be Jason. Because he's so respected and so persuasive, everyone would have been just blown away by his speech, right? Just pure overly confident self-worth, as usual. Hilarious.

Scot was also sure at one point that it'd be him. Those two have to have the least self-awareness of anyone that's ever been on this show and that is truly saying something. Russell Hantz has more self-awareness for pete's sake!

33 minutes ago, Alapaki said:

Or, an example of Michelle having done the work to develop a relationship with Cydney such that Cydney would go to bat for her at that time.  That vote could've gone either way because Aubrey/Joe/Tai/Cydney still would've had the numbers to bounce Michelle/Jason (whichever one survived that vote) the following TC.  Of course, Joe's evacuation screwed that up.  But I think it's an example of Michelle having put herself in a position to survive "another 3 days", which is sometimes all you can do.

As fishcakes said it's an example of both: a big mistake that Aubry made and one of the moves Michele made that contributed to her win. It's not like Aubry made all the right moves, she made mistakes. Many of them actually. Michele didn't really make any mistakes. Sure, she got lucky and she didn't play as overt a strategic game as Aubry or even Tai and Cydney, but she didn't make the mistakes Aubry did either.

28 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I don't really care that much that she won, but it seems to me that Jeff really had to feed her a lot of spin at the reunion about her gameplay and strategy, which she nodded to and affirmed. It sounded like rationalization to me. 

She was trying to explain herself but Jeff kept cutting her off every second because apparently he knows better than her why she won the game. Shut up, Probst! Although in his defense she was being almost as rambley as Tai and they didn't have much time. Still he cut off Tai less than Michele and Tai needed to be cut off plenty.

I forgot to say this in my initial post: by suggesting Neal as the juror vote-off Tai finally made a decision on his own that worked out. Too bad for him that it worked out for Michele and not himself!

Edited May 19, 2016 by peachmangosteen

[ProfCrash]

Julia had others she could h ave hung out with at Ponderosa and seemed to spend her time with Scot and Kyle. Julia's words and actions are on her, not the two assholes she hung out with. I am willing to say that she is young and still in a more high school mentality and that she cold grow up and change a lot in the future. Here is hoping.

I don't think there is any hope for Kyle. He is just a prick.

[thehepburn]

Of course Michelle didnt make any mistakes; she had to actually move in order to make some mistakes.

[gunderda]

LAME!

that's all i have to say.

 

But 2nd place gets some money right??

Aubry looks super bummed when Michelle was announced the winner. 

[Alapaki]

4 minutes ago, thehepburn said:

Of course Michelle didnt make any mistakes; she had to actually move in order to make some mistakes.

"Making a move" when you don't need to is a mistake.  I can't recall a time when Michelle was in a position to change the outcome of a TC with her vote.  But that's not really her fault.  But, IMO, she had plenty of opportunities to put a target on her own back; instances where some other players (I'm looking at you Debbie and fauxbama) probably would've put unnecessary targets on their own backs and gotten themselves voted out.

Sitting tight is a valid strategy when it's also your optimal play.

[hyukx3]

A lot of people on the jury seemed to think that Aubrey is the one that makes the decision and was in control, but I dont think so. It was group decision with Tai or Cydney. One case for her was that she pulled Tai to her side that nobody brought up.

[peachmangosteen]

7 minutes ago, hyukx3 said:

A lot of people on the jury seemed to think that Aubrey is the one that makes the decision and was in control, but I dont think so. It was group decision with Tai or Cydney.

This is so true. Aubry wasn't really as 'in control' as the edit  wanted us to believe. As fishcakes has pointed out eloquently many times, Aubry actually made a lot of bad decisions based on emotions and she just went along with Cydney a couple times. Not to mention the Julia vote strike-out TC, which was probably the best example of Aubry not being that in control of even her own game let alone the entire game.

I still love Aubry though and I do believe she played a good game, I just don't think it was that much better than Michele's. 

I don't think there's any doubt we'll see Aubry again. Considering the edit she got now knowing she didn't win it feels pretty obvious they were setting her up for a return visit. I have to say though, I have a feeling she'll do worse the next time.

Edited May 19, 2016 by peachmangosteen

[scowl]

One thing that made me feel better about this season is going through the spoiler thread and seeing how much worse it could have been if some spoilers had been true. A final four of Neal, Julia, Michele, Scott, and Jason? Yikes!

[tvfanatic13]

Agree with the poster that thought Michele looked better on the island. Much better indeed! So, I guess Cydney was really bitter about Aubrey voting for her at F4. I would have sworn she would have voted for Aubrey in the end.

[hyukx3]

I would vote for Cydney if she was in. Big fan of subtlety.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Reward Challenge:

I feel like Jeff announcing out loud that Aubry had figured out her mistake during that challenge was not fair to the other three.  However, I did burst into tears when she won.  Aubry hugging Jeff after, LOL!

Immunity Challenge:

The slowest person always wins these challenges.  It reminds me of what I'm always saying to my father.  When you rush, you make dumb mistakes.  I wanted Tai to win Immunity, however when Michelle won Immunity, Tai's face was just amazing.  That was some good TV.

Aubry:  Tai's being super shady.

Cydney:  Aubry and I have been Ride-or-Die Homies from the beginning.

Tribal Council:

Debbie being so happy and smiling at everyone, and Scot being such a sour fucking bastard.

When Cydney lost that Fire Challenge, I was so emotional.  I cried more than she did.  I don't even know why.  I kind of lost my mind.  I wanted BOTH Aubry and Cydney to get to the end, which was unfortunately not possible in this scenario.  And then they brought out Cydney's mom.  I was a mess.

I was surprised that Tai wanted to go to the end with Aubry.  I also find it interesting that Tai viewed Michelle as a major threat from early on, and though I found it kind of funny back then, we see now that he was right.

The "Twist":

I went through an emotional rollercoaster with this one.  I was dying laughing when it was announced.  I think the conclusion is it's very cool.  I just wish that Aubry had won the game in entirety.  Neal was such a fucking asshole for no reason.  #MICHELEHASSPOKEN   #NEALISANASSHOLE

The Winner:

I talked about this in the Reunion live chat but I was very, very shocked that Aubry didn't win and the more I think about it, kind of devastated.  Were the editors simply trying to surprise everyone?  Because not only did it surprise me it upset me.  

The editors went on and on about Aubry being the biggest threat, and Michelle feeling like Aubry getting to the end would threaten Michelle's game, which is why, among a million other reasons, I see the editors painting Aubry as their winner for a very long time.  It's so odd and confusing!  Doesn't it kind of hurt your show to edit Michelle as a not deserving winner?

Aubry is my winner.  Cydney and Tai are my fan favourites.  I think the ending could have been my most fantasy ending ever/one of the best seasons ever if Michelle had not made it to the Final 3.  I guess Aubry became the Spencer of this game, in that she received so much narration and growth arc time, although, there are analogies between Tai and Spencer as well, as they were prone to mouthing off at Tribals and did not receive any votes..   Scot controlled too much of this show.  He's a scary, irrational, single-minded asshole and he absolutely did not pick the person with the best game to win.

Edited May 19, 2016 by Ms Blue Jay

[Wandering Snark]

The reunion will never change until it finds a new focus AND a new host. The main problem is and always has been that Probst holds "his game" too close to himself. He loves the live crowd and being able to crow about how he "runs" the biggest bestest most innovating and compelling show evar!! And anything like talking to celebrities will always take up time that should be spent talking to the contestants. Look at the Tyler Perry mess from a few years back. This is all about let's get together to recall how awesome this season was and Probst is too high on his ego to do a sensible job. 

If they went to a studio show like Bravo/Lifetime do it would vastly improve the product but vastly undercut Probst's ego, so it will never happen.

[laurakaye]

1 hour ago, blackwing said:

Have there been any other back row players who have gotten as much time at the reunion as Caleb did?  Normally Jeff doesn't even see them.

 

Caleb is one of those studly alpha-male types that Probst falls in love with, so I'm actually shocked Jeff didn't spend MORE time talking to Caleb.

31 minutes ago, gunderda said:

 

Aubry looks super bummed when Michelle was announced the winner. 

Was it just me, or did Aubrey have a look on her face during the reading of the votes that suggested she knew she wasn't winning?  Both Michelle and Aubrey seemed very passive and unemotional.  Could they have already known?

[Alapaki]

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Caleb is one of those studly alpha-male types that Probst falls in love with, so I'm actually shocked Jeff didn't spend MORE time talking to Caleb.

I agree that Caleb is the type to send Jeff running for the hand-lotion.  But the guy did almost die on-set.  I don't have a problem with Jeff's questions for Caleb.  

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Was it just me, or did Aubrey have a look on her face during the reading of the votes that suggested she knew she wasn't winning?  Both Michelle and Aubrey seemed very passive and unemotional.  Could they have already known?

Yeah, I'm thinking there's no way these folks went for over a year without talking about who got how many votes.  

[riverheightsnancy]

1 hour ago, piequinn35 said:

lol Sia is the singer of Chandelier, she is one of the best singers out there, check this out 1.2 billion views

In case some don't know: The girl in the video is not Sia, that is one of the talented dancers from the Dance Moms show. Her name is Maddie. She is wearing a Sia style wig, but it is not Sia's face in the video is what I am getting at. 

[thehepburn]

52 minutes ago, Alapaki said:

"Making a move" when you don't need to is a mistake.  I can't recall a time when Michelle was in a position to change the outcome of a TC with her vote.  But that's not really her fault.  But, IMO, she had plenty of opportunities to put a target on her own back; instances where some other players (I'm looking at you Debbie and fauxbama) probably would've put unnecessary targets on their own backs and gotten themselves voted out.

Sitting tight is a valid strategy when it's also your optimal play.

Sitting tight is a valid strategy when you are Sophie and second in command of a strong alliance. Sitting tight is NOT a valid strategy unless you are lucky enough not to go to TC for 24 days and being a slug didnt cost you. Then ppl will go around saying how you didnt make any mistakes and you played a great social game.

[hyukx3]

2 minutes ago, thehepburn said:

Sitting tight is a valid strategy when you are Sophie and second in command of a strong alliance. Sitting tight is NOT a valid strategy unless you are lucky enough not to go to TC for 24 days and being a slug didnt cost you. Then ppl will go around saying how you didnt make any mistakes and you played a great social game.

She still smart enough to play dumb to Nick then vote him out, vote out her ally in Julia and bond with Cydney. Start giving Michelle some credit.

[thehepburn]

Michele went to TC all of seven whopping times and correctly voted out the boot 5 times. That's 71% which is a barely passing grade. That sounds about right. I give her credit for a barely passing game.

[Shimmergloom]

I don't see why she can be faulted because her tribe won a bunch of immunities.  Should she have thrown some challenges just so she could have gone to TC early?

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Everyone Cries Fowl On Survivor's Season Finale

One of the final four takes home the $1 million prize, and then things get pretty bonkers. But you wouldn't expect anything less strange from a season whose most memorable character was a chicken.

[looksee]

Ok I officially hate Tai for abandoning Mark :(

[hyukx3]

What really matters is after the merge.

[ProfCrash]

I have a theory....

There was a good amount of outrage based on Scot and Kyle's poor behavior of Alecia. Later we saw the two idiots at their best with their sabotage and gloating. So there was evidence that they were, well, assholes. 

Based on their Jury Videos and Cydney's Ponderosa video, I think the two were far more assholic then we knew and Julia was probably more divisive then we saw. After the massive backlash towards Will and Dan in their season, Production went out of their way to hide their poor behavior. That would mean that we might not have seen some of their bad behavior and words regarding Aubrey. The three of them were very clear in their Jury Videos that there was no way for Aubrey to get their votes. Tai had a slim chance but Aubrey had none. Julia and Kyle had similar comments about Aubrey's game play in their videos. I don't think that was because of all the time that they spent in Ponderosa but because of crap they were saying to each other during the game.

Julia made it clear in a few of her talking heads that she didn't like Aubrey and couldn't work with her. She never really say why but I suspect that Julia saw Aubrey as an uncool nerd who was not worthy of her time. Kyle commented that no one spoke to him in his last three days in the game, possibly he tags that on Aubrey's influence.

The only way to better show why the vote ended the way it did was to show a more accurate portrayal of what was happening in camp, ie the cool kids being assholes to the uncool kids, and/or figuring out how to successfully portray a woman playing a good social game. They could not do the first because they feared the backlash and they have never been able to do the later.

For the record, Joe's comments about Michelle in his Jury Video are eye roll worthy. He discusses how pretty she is and nice she is and how he liked walking behind her to tribal because she has a nice ass. Call it a double standard but he gets the "He is 71 and should know better but gets the older man pass" because if Scot or Kyle had said that I would rip them a new one. Although I suspect that is exactly why Kyle and Scot voted for Michelle. They couldn't stand voting for Tai and Aubrey because they were the ones responsible for their exit from the game and Michelle was the cool, hot chick that they could support.

I still think Michelle played a good game. I think she built good social bonds. She was able to win Cydney's vote even though Cydney and Aubrey worked together. I don't think Cyndey was upset that Aubrey voted for her but I think she had a better connection with Michelle and Michelle refused to change her vote allowing Cydney a chance to save herself. Michelle was smart enough to try and forge a bond with Tai even after Tai voted for her. That might not have helped her last night but it is a sign that she was not burning bridges and willing to talk to everyone. Michelle also won a good number of challenges, two immunities, a reward and the jury challenge. I don't care that the wins were at the end, she won them. I think she is a legit winner no matter what. She simply had it a bit easier because Scot, Kyle, and Julia are assholes.

[Alapaki]

21 minutes ago, looksee said:

Ok I officially hate Tai for abandoning Mark :(

In his Q&A on ew.com, Probst says mark was given to a local family.  No word on whether they baked or fried him.

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Michele went to TC all of seven whopping times and correctly voted out the boot 5 times. That's 71% which is a barely passing grade. That sounds about right. I give her credit for a barely passing game.

Surviving relatively more TCs may add to a contestant's resume, but not having to go to TC doesn't detract from their accomplishments.  

And, fwiw, Michelle only voted against the majority at TC once, which was the time that Tai flipped on Scot and Aubrey intentionally kept Michelle out of the loop because she was too close to Julia.  I suppose the second time you're talking about is the F4 TC?  But that was 2-2.  She ended up on the wrong side because Cydney couldn't even get a spark going in the tie-breaker.

I'm really not trying to promote Michelle as a great champion, or even a good one.  But I just don't see her win as an affront to all that's holy.

Edited May 19, 2016 by Alapaki

[thehepburn]

Just for the record, my dissatisfaction with Michele is mostly with the editors. Michele was my preseason pick on reddit so I've been expecting her win all season. However, I got fed up by E11 when it became obvious that Michele's win was not going to be justified. Again, that is the editors' responsibility (altho Michele gave them nothing to work with). In hindsight, they needed to vilify Aubry more which they werent willing to do.

[Alapaki]

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I still think Michelle played a good game. I think she built good social bonds. She was able to win Cydney's vote even though Cydney and Aubrey worked together. I don't think Cyndey was upset that Aubrey voted for her but I think she had a better connection with Michelle and Michelle refused to change her vote allowing Cydney a chance to save herself. Michelle was smart enough to try and forge a bond with Tai even after Tai voted for her. That might not have helped her last night but it is a sign that she was not burning bridges and willing to talk to everyone. Michelle also won a good number of challenges, two immunities, a reward and the jury challenge. I don't care that the wins were at the end, she won them. I think she is a legit winner no matter what. She simply had it a bit easier because Scot, Kyle, and Julia are assholes.

I agree.  And although I realize you shouldn't get points for simply behaving civilly, it would have been easy for Michelle to react poorly after Aubrey & Co. kept her out of the loop on the Scot blind-side.  Instead, she plastered a smile on her face and made nice with Cydney.  That was a move that paid dividends in the end.

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I have a theory....

There was a good amount of outrage based on Scot and Kyle's poor behavior of Alecia. Later we saw the two idiots at their best with their sabotage and gloating. So there was evidence that they were, well, assholes. 

Based on their Jury Videos and Cydney's Ponderosa video, I think the two were far more assholic then we knew and Julia was probably more divisive then we saw. After the massive backlash towards Will and Dan in their season, Production went out of their way to hide their poor behavior. 

 

This is an astute observation and one I wouldn't discount.  I think Burnett & Co. were a bit surprised at the backlash against Will and Dan (whom, iirc, Probst initially defended).  I think without that background, the editing of this season may have been different.