S32.E14: Not Going Down Without A Fight / S32.E15: Reunion

[BK1978]

5 hours ago, Callaphera said:

When Caleb said that his mom/family had never seen him in a true medical emergency situation like he was in on this season of Survivor, all I could think was "Beast Mode! You lied to us! What happened to the story of when you were four and couldn't walk and the doctors couldn't do anything but this magical mystery man walked into your hospital room and laid his hands on you and you could walk again?" 

That said, I hope he'll be back on another season. I love me some BMC. Next season looks pretty bad, though. Can we just stop with the stupid themes and gimmicks?

This post cracked me up way more than it should have.  I wonder what Caleb is going to do this summer.  The next spring season of Survivor is rumored to be an All Star season and the upcoming season of Big Brother is rumored to be All Stars vs. new players.  I would think both shows would want him to be an All Star.

5 hours ago, Straycat80 said:

I thought this season started out slow and I hated everybody but once the beasty boys and fakeobama got the boot I started to enjoy the play and blindsides and started to like Aubry, Cyd, Tai and (sometimes)  Joe. 

I was disappointed Michelle won. They had a chauvinist, bitter jury which sucked.

The reunion sucked too, Jeff didn't even talk to Cyd. 

Next season doesn't look too good, but of course I'll watch. At least it doesn't appear they are bringing back past player which is a pet peeve of mine. 

The fakeobama line got me as well.

Okay now for my thoughts about the actual show.  I am disappointed that Michelle won (But she did look amazing in that dress) because I felt Aubrey played the better game. Heck I thought Tai played the better game as well.  However, much like Big Brother I tend to never like who wins anyway case in point Natalie A (Yeah I am still bitter that she won.  I could not stand her or her sister on TAR and I hate the fact she won Survivor.).

I had to laugh when SIA said that she wanted to give fan favorite money to Keith last season but she chickened out.  Keith was probably sitting at home spitting on the floor after he heard that.

As for the Millennials vs Gen X theme.  Well I think it is dumb but if they are going to do that why not make a third tribe filled with Baby Boomers?  I mean there are still plenty young Baby Boomers (Because Survivor hates casting older people.  Joe, Tai, and Debbie were exceptions to the rule).  I really do not see that much of a cultural clash between Gen Xers and Millennials but hey what do I know.

[himela]

A good season with a bad winner in the end. A bitter jury that only voted for who they hated less rather than vote for the person who outwitted - outlasted - outplayed them. I'm so mad for Michelle "winning" that I can't even enjoy this finale. I'm also mad that half of the survivors were not even talked to by Jeff and we got to see Tai trying to talk in english. I am wondering, why don't they make the live show like Big Brother Canada where they film it and edit it and then show it? It's not like the live show gives us anything more. They talked to Cydney's mom and not to Cydney, omg! Anyway I'm happy for this season and the nice blindsides etc BUT I hate the winner and I hate that 32 seasons have not taught the players to vote for the person who has played best rather than the person they like or dislike less.

[phlebas]

6 hours ago, princelina said:

My vote for Worst Winner Ever is still Amber :)

Bob Crowley thanks you

[Pixiebomb]

I stayed up for that????  Aubrey was robbed. I hope she comes back. I like how she played. She didn't play like a lot of women do, by hitching themselves to a strong male.   Nor did she base her game in a "girl alliance". Yes her alliance was mainly girls but it wasn't formed soley on the fact they were girls with the pure intent to get out the men. She just played the game as it was laid out before her.  

[Rosieroo]

Quote

No offense to Sia, but when Jeff said there would be a special guest at the reunion I was hoping they had flown in Mark the rooster.  Anyone other than that and I was guaranteed to be disappointed.

Me too...Well I guess I'm just plain ole stupid because I kept thinking (hoping) he would appear even after the Sia nonsense. When Jeff started gesturing toward the audience for the fresh new nonsense that was Drew Carey, I thought they would bring him out then.  I can't decide if I'm more disappointed by Mark being abandoned or Aubry losing. 

[wallflower75]

As I reacted to Michele's win last night, my mother couldn't understand why I was so disappointed.  She didn't see that there was anything wrong with Michele that would've made me dislike her.  I told her that it wasn't that I disliked Michele, it was that I liked Aubry more.  From what we saw, Aubry had earned it--she'd made the smart moves and played the game the best.  Michele hadn't.

But then I wondered: was I being unfair to Michele?  Survivor contestants from Borneo on through the years have reminded us that we only get to see a fraction of the story.  They tape thousands upon thousands of hours of footage and it gets boiled down into about fourteen forty-two-minute-long segments for us to see.  It's up to TPTB  to give us a story that explains how someone wins from beginning to end.  In most seasons, when you look back at the winner, you can say, "Yeah, I see how it happened.  I may not like it, but the clues were there."  Not this year.

In a season of contestants who stood out, whether for good reasons (Aubry and Cydney), bad reasons (the Bullies and Nick), or wacky reasons (Debbie and Tai), Michele simply didn't stand out.  By her own admission, she played the middle of the road, didn't piss anybody off that we saw, didn't make any brilliant strategic moves, but came up big when it counted.  And by doing so, she left TPTB a massive challenge in trying to figure out how to explain to us how she did it.  I think it's possible they could have.

Bottom line: if we're disappointed, it should be at TPTB for not giving us a full explanation for Michele's win.  They focused more on the big personalities of the game and left us scratching our heads trying to figure it out.

[JudyObscure]

I don't buy the jury's excuse for voting for Michele that she came on strong at the end.  She got very lucky at the end.  She was way behind Aubry and Tai in the running and climbing challenge and then in her own words, "suddenly just saw" the puzzle and won that one.  The next challenge she would have lost if Aubry's stack hadn't fallen at the last second.  I have always thought those all important last few challenges should be endurance so that the person who really wants it the most will win not the one who gets lucky doing a puzzle.  No one on the jury seemed impressed with Michele while actually playing with her, Scot and Jason complained that she didn't do anything around camp,   Julia said she was the weakest of her alliance and Tai said he just wasn't drawn to her so where was the fabulous social game? 

Most maddening to me was Jeff trying to tell this was a great underdog story simply because she got assigned to the Beauty tribe, as if that was really any disadvantage.

I don't even buy the idea that she won because she was pretty because she's not  particularly pretty to me.

I guess it's a puzzle I just don't see.

[Drogo]

"You came into this game thinking you were a bad ass bitch but you're really just a puppy still suckling at the teat, and I don't think you stand a chance." 

That is the creepiest shit I've ever heard, Neal.  Kindly go home and come back never. 

[candall]

11 minutes ago, wallflower75 said:

Bottom line: if we're disappointed, it should be at TPTB for not giving us a full explanation for Michele's win.  They focused more on the big personalities of the game and left us scratching our heads trying to figure it out.

I think if they could have shown Michele making her way to a well-deserved win, they would have.  After six months of effort, TPTB want viewers to cheer and be satisfied and say "YES!"  It's not good for them when people say, "Seriously?" 

I don't think the cutting room floor is littered with THs where Michele is laying out her strategy and explaining why she wants to align with this person and not that one.  No miles of unused footage where, for example, Michele can be seen telling x one thing and y something else. 

The main deception I heard her claim at FTC was artificially "dumbing herself down" to do something or other with regards to Scott.  Okay, excellent, valid maneuver.  But if you were doing that, wouldn't you want to mention it in a confessional--if for no other reason than the natural desire to clarify to the folks back home that you're only playing a part?  And wouldn't the show love to show us that?  Here's Michele, our million dollar winner--unbeknownst to you, of course--making her moves!

**********

In my head, this is all coming out in a reasonable tone and not as a rant.  I thought both Aubry and Tai were more deserving, but I don't feel any rage about Michele taking it--that's how it frequently goes on Survivor.  I just don't believe the editors screwed up and dropped the ball (because essentially there was no ball there to drop.)

[laurakaye]

Getting the random thoughts out of my brain...

While I was surprised that Michelle won, I was also surprised at how well she articulated her thoughts and strategy at the FTC.  I watched her face fall when Nick stood up and told her that she needed to speak with intelligence.  At that point, I started to root for her, because Nick seemed to be telling her to prove that she wasn't just a cute airhead.  And she did.  I liked how, during her final statement, she brought it back around to Nick's advice, and broke down because she was proud of herself.  Good for her.

This might've been the worst reunion special I have ever seen, and I have seen them all.  Complete waste of time pushing the Price is Right, and Sia crashing the party was uncomfortable and far too long...meanwhile, it would've been super-cool to hear from Alecia, and Peter, and Cydney, and Bitter Neal.  

Speaking of Neal, I think it was complete crap that he was allowed to speak after Michelle booted him.  Once you're voted out, you shut up and leave.  Those final parting words could've seriously swayed the jury.  Another reason why I'm okay with Michelle winning - she won an advantage and used it perfectly.

Scot and Bounty, if I never see you again it will be too soon.  Scot's stupid dance at FTC and Bounty wearing couch upholstery as a coat...just go away.

I literally cannot believe they let Mark go back into the wild.  I absolutely thought they'd bring him back at the end.  

Survivor, I love you, but I feel you are dangerously close to jumping the shark.  Please, PLEASE...on behalf of your old-school fans...go back to basics.  Don't cast based on clear-cut stereotypes.  Do a school-yard pick for teams on Day One.  Stop with the "themes."  Go back to a Final Two.  Let those Final Two give opening and closing statements.  Call it "Survivor Old-School" or whatever.  Just try and go back to what made the show so ground-breaking in the first place.  Don't go away, because even bad Survivor is better than no Survivor, but that's just the opinion of a viewer who has never missed an episode.  You've got to keep working on getting better.  Controversy does not necessarily mean a better show.  Do YOU, Survivor!  Do you!

[thehepburn]

The 3 Brawns on the jury were the swing votes. The Brains voted for the Brain. In the end, it was as Bounty said - the Jocks wanted to push the nerd into the locker and voted for the Beauty. 

Being a dumb but social slug is not a strategy. It's a skill tho and it won Survivor this season.

[JudyObscure]

I agree that there was nothing to show where Michele was concerned.  We saw a lot of sun bathing and naps and I think that was about it.

Yes Neal was creepy.

I also think Julia is a very unlikeable person, she really isn't very different from her buddies Scot and Jason.  Her attitude at Final Tribal was just so smug and superior toward Aubry and Tai.  She was even snide to her "good friend," Michele. Ugh.

Nick isn't much better.  Why tell Michele she needed to prove she was intelligent  (rich coming from him) and tell Aubry she needed to show confidence if, after Michele cried and Aubry gave a very confident speech, he voted for Michele?  Does crying mean you're smart? Obvioulsy his mind was made up and he just thought he had a clever speech made up.

At the end of the day, I think this was a dumber than average cast and they didn't really understand good game play.  Tai's flips and Aubry's strategy were all just so much  stuff that didn't help their own cause,  so they would have voted for one of the dead chickens just because it hadn't worked against them.

[ProfCrash]

So what the hell was that?

I don't have a problem with Michelle winning. She played a great social game. She did not anger people on the jury, worked herself out of a few sticky situations, and won some important challenges. I would have preferred Aubrey because she played a more active game and because she is closer to me in that she is a nerd but I am fine with Michelle winning.

That said. I hated the challenge to remove a jury member. No. Just no. It did not cost Aubrey the game, Scott, Jason and Julia were not going to vote for Aubrey because she beat them and they are too small minded to be ok with that. Their small minded, rude, disrespectful behavior towards Cydney at Ponderosa made it very clear that they would never vote for someone who was responsible for their removal from the game. I am disappointed with Scott, he is a freaking Pro athlete and he is that petty. Even if Neal had been on the jury, Aubrey loses 5-3 instead of 5-2. I don't think he would have said anything to sway anyone so the twist was pretty useless but it just is not something I want to see again.

I hated the bluff that it was going to be a final two. I prefer final twos so I was massively disappointed that it was a challenge for the jury advantage. Michelle would have won and Aubrey would have gone home so it changes nothing but I would still have preferred that. Why fuck with the final threes mind like that? Good on Tai for noticing that Jeff did not say that it was in the hand of the jury and that there were still tow days left.

I hated the tribal to vote out a jury member. It essentially gave Michelle a period of time to talk about how great she was and free advertising.

I hated the Super Idol. Never mind that it wasn't played, it is too powerful. I don't like it.

Overall, I liked the season but there were too many twists and evacs for me to think it was a great season. I liked most of the people who played. I liked that the personal drama was relatively low key. 

I won't bother discussing the reunion because it was so stupid and provided no entertainment.

[violet and green]

Geez, Aubrey really should have listened to Tai and got Michelle out that time...

WTF, what a pack of tools that jury turned out to be. MICHELLE! FFS!

Thank god for the Sia funds going to Tai and to creatures great and small.

[peachmangosteen]

There seems to be something wrong with this board right now but I'm going to post anyway and just hope it doesn't show up 16 times!

8 hours ago, MissEwa said:

That said, the best line of the night was the snide 'water?' that someone stuck in when Debbie was talking about all her jobs and got to 'counterfeit detection of...' Good work, live TV. 

I didn't notice that. That's hilarious. I'm going to go back and watch that bit to see if i can tell who exactly said it.

23 minutes ago, Drogo said:

"You came into this game thinking you were a bad ass bitch but you're really just a puppy still suckling at the teat, and I don't think you stand a chance." 

That is the creepiest shit I've ever heard, Neal.  Kindly go home and come back never. 

I am glad that Neal proved himself to be the sociopath I thought he was all along. That was so fucked up. Where's all the outrage on Michele's behalf over that? 

Thanks to alapaki, snarkkitty, azshadowwalker, and a few others for articulating the reasons why I'm perfectly happy with Michele winning.

The beauty of Survivor is that not everyone thinks the 'best game' is the same game you or I think is the 'best game.' That's also where the frustration comes in though of course! But the fact is there is no right way to play the game and not every person thinks 'controlling the game' is the way to win. Or that 'winning challenges' is the way to win. Or that 'being the most likable' is the way to win. Just because people don't vote for who you like the most or feel played the best game doesn't mean they were bitter. It just means they don't look at the game the exact same way you do.

That being said, Scot and Jason continue to be horrible in every way, especially Scot. What a disgusting person. Same for Neal tbh. And you know what I'm going to add Julia to the horrible pot. I wanted to like her but goodness she is insufferable. At least someone taught her how to apply mascara for the reunion!

Cydney was pissed at Tai getting 50 grand. She was literally the only person not standing. She is petty as hell. I love it! Because honestly that was some bullshit. I would have still pretended like I thought it was nice though so I admire Cyndey for having the balls not to act like that was anything more than bullshit.

I for one am super glad they don't do America's Fave anymore. It's not so much America's Fave as it is Production's Fave since they edit the show into making whoever they like the best the most visible and then that person wins every year. And as with Rupert before they found a way to give their fave money this season anyway. Gross.

This has already been mentioned a lot but damn at the just letting Mark go like that. That's savage! I mean it's not like Mark was even a wild chicken to begin with, he was given to them by Production. How sad. Poor Mark.

Great season for me with a great winner. Next season looks horrible though. Just horrible. I hope that at the very least we're not stuck with multiple sexist dicks.

[Jeanius]

On balance, the cheeseburger put Michele over the top.

Edited May 19, 2016 by Jeanius
One cheeseburger, not two

[Chit Chat]

Scott and Jason ruined this season early on for me.  I recorded the reunion last night after the winner was announced, so I've got to watch it this evening.  I hope that Jeff didn't give them much airtime. 

A sad season indeed when a lot of fans' favorite player was a chicken.  ;) 

[Daisy]

Peachmangosteen: a lot of the outtrage was spent in the livethread, we were all like "the hell" when Neal said that. that was douchey as heck. i mean. as far as final tribals go - it was a great sting but it was still douchey. 

I respect other people's opinions on why they feel Michele deserved it, and maybe i just need a re-watch (if i even want to bother, this season was tough bananas for me). and this is where I really have to slam production in not showing it. But then reading some of the thread people feel that Vecepia was a crap winner - and I thought she was pretty good (i mean obvs. it was Kathy, and Neleh could have, but i never had a glitch with Vee). which is the beauty of this game.

I do hope Aubrey plays again though. i never thought i'd like her as much as I would have, but i really do. and I always liked Cyd for the most part. 

[Lamb18]

9 hours ago, Daisy said:

Sia is this singer from Australia. I only know two songs of hers "Iko iko" (thanks to Jimmy Fallon karaoke) and "Chandelier" her whole thing is that she doesn't want to be recognized or be critiqued or anything so she hides her face with these wigs and stuff and when interviewed she'll face the wall and still have a wig on.  apparently she's popular in USA too - but i dunno. I'm not v. current with most stuff (again I only know her now because of Jimmy Fallon Karaoke) 

That seems kind of funny because wearing such a strange wig and having her face covered seems to scream, "Hey this is Sia in disguise!!" Her disguise is so odd. She should just wear sunglasses, no makeup, jeans and T-shirt and maybe no one would know who she is.

[peachmangosteen]

37 minutes ago, Daisy said:

Peachmangosteen: a lot of the outtrage was spent in the livethread, we were all like "the hell" when Neal said that. that was douchey as heck. i mean. as far as final tribals go - it was a great sting but it was still douchey.

Oh I forgot about that live chat thread. I would go read it but I don't feel like reading more, "Michele only won because she's pretty!" arguments right now.

Quote

and this is where I really have to slam production in not showing it.

Production hasn't yet managed to figure out how to edit female winners who aren't big personalities or showy players. In general I do think it's probably quite hard to edit games like the one Michele played anyway, so I feel for Production there. But still, it's been 32 seasons, the editing team needs to learn how to edit it so that there isn't a legit reason for people to feel they don't understand why the winner won.

28 minutes ago, Lamb18 said:

That seems kind of funny because wearing such a strange wig and having her face covered seems to scream, "Hey this is Sia in disguise!!" Her disguise is so odd. She should just wear sunglasses, no makeup, jeans and T-shirt and maybe no one would know who she is.

It's not that sh'es trying to be in disguise, it's that she's making a commentary on the media and their obsession with looks, etc.

Edited May 19, 2016 by GenL
Removed double posted comments

[Drogo]

There wasn't much outrage about what Neal said in the live chat thread either.  He was ridiculously creepy, so much so that Khaleesi commented that Aubry was probably "embarrassed" that he was one of her guaranteed votes.

[Cutty]

Peach! I usually agree with you but I can't get behind Michelle over Aubry. Michelle seems perfectly nice and pleasant but I can't for the life of me point to a single game changing move she made. Yeah, she pivoted from her original alliance with the beauties to getting in with Cydney in the majority. But for the most part it just seemed like she was along for the ride, and as Aubry pointed out at FTC she was on the wrong side of the vote multiple times. That's generally a good view of who played the best game, in my eyes. (I actually thought Cydney played the better strategic game than Aubry, but the jury actually hated her more than Aubry.) 

Given the makeup of the jury the outcome isn't really surprising in retrospect. It's like a repeat of high school where the jocks vote for the pretty girl over the nerd. I'm not sure if there's anything Aubry could've done besides getting Michele out at F4. (She likely wins against Cydney and Tai.)

Do we know who Aubry's second vote was? I'm guessing Cydney or Debbie. 

Anyway, pretty blah season on the whole. I'd rank it in the bottom 30% of Survivor seasons.

[Chit Chat]

Neal's comment to Michelle was terrible.  I found it creepy that he went over and walked right in front of all 3 of them.  I always hate when jury members get all high and mighty with the F2/F3.  It makes them look bitter and petty. 

[violet and green]

2 minutes ago, Drogo said:

There wasn't much outrage about what Neal said in the live chat thread either.  He was ridiculously creepy, so much so that Khaleesi commented that Aubry was probably "embarrassed" that he was one of her guaranteed votes.

Oh, Khaleesi - I love your subtle, pithy observations - savior of the human race!

[Lamima]

7 hours ago, Artsda said:

Wow, baffled by that winner. What a stupid jury. I can't even, I would get it be a toss up between Tai and Aubry. But Michelle winning? WHAT?

The next season seems like reworded Old vs Young.

Um, Gen X isn't old. 

[peachmangosteen]

15 minutes ago, Cutty said:

Peach! I usually agree with you but I can't get behind Michelle over Aubry. Michelle seems perfectly nice and pleasant but I can't for the life of me point to a single game changing move she made.

First of all I'm glad to hear there's actually someone out there who sometimes agrees with me lol! I don't really think Michele made any game changing moves either, but that's the thing, you don't have to make game changing moves to play a good game. Also, I actually think the biggest game changer was absolutely Michele winning the F4 IC, which isn't a move per se, but it absolutely solidified her win imo and therefore ensured that Aubry wasn't going to win.

I was rooting for Aubry all season. She was my initial fave. I think she played a great game. But I loved Michele as well and I think she too played a great game too, albeit much different and far less interesting than Aubry's. Also I felt pretty convinced Michele was the winner almost immediately and I feel the edit set it up fairly well (for them at least!), so I don't have that confusion over it that many others do.

Edited May 19, 2016 by peachmangosteen

[JudyObscure]

The beauty of Survivor is that not everyone thinks the 'best game' is the same game you or I think is the 'best game.' That's also where the frustration comes in though of course! But the fact is there is no right way to play the game and not every person thinks 'controlling the game' is the way to win. Or that 'winning challenges' is the way to win. Or that 'being the most likable' is the way to win. Just because people don't vote for who you like the most or feel played the best game doesn't mean they were bitter. It just means they don't look at the game the exact same way you do.

Peachmangosteen:  I agree with this and think it's very well said. 

My problem with Michele is not that I don't value social games or that I think she won because she was pretty.  I think she won by default.  If there had been a great social game going on, making people laugh, helping out, etc, I think they would have shown it. We didn't hear anyone saying she was "The nicest person I've ever known" like Heidi said about Jenna. In fact we saw Scot irritated with her for not working around camp and Tai saying he just didn't feel drawn to her personality at all.  I just think the jury hated Aubry and Tai for getting them out and the only person left was Michele.  Maybe there's something to be said for a strategy of just being there after the others blow themselves up, but that's all I would give her.

[NutMeg]

Well, I was blindsided... Never saw Michele's win coming once Audrey was in the F3. Then again, I'm not unhappy with the result, nor with the jury. If there was something to be unhappy with, it's with the editing choices. Then again, they managed to blindside us, maybe that's what they were looking to achieve...

3 hours ago, Pixiebomb said:

I stayed up for that????  Aubrey was robbed. I hope she comes back. I like how she played. She didn't play like a lot of women do, by hitching themselves to a strong male.   Nor did she base her game in a "girl alliance". Yes her alliance was mainly girls but it wasn't formed soley on the fact they were girls with the pure intent to get out the men. She just played the game as it was laid out before her.  

I liked how Aubry played too. But doesn't the bolded part also perfectly fit Michele's game?

2 hours ago, wallflower75 said:

As I reacted to Michele's win last night, my mother couldn't understand why I was so disappointed.  She didn't see that there was anything wrong with Michele that would've made me dislike her.  I told her that it wasn't that I disliked Michele, it was that I liked Aubry more.  From what we saw, Aubry had earned it--she'd made the smart moves and played the game the best.  Michele hadn't.

But then I wondered: was I being unfair to Michele?  Survivor contestants from Borneo on through the years have reminded us that we only get to see a fraction of the story.  They tape thousands upon thousands of hours of footage and it gets boiled down into about fourteen forty-two-minute-long segments for us to see.  It's up to TPTB  to give us a story that explains how someone wins from beginning to end.  In most seasons, when you look back at the winner, you can say, "Yeah, I see how it happened.  I may not like it, but the clues were there."  Not this year.

In a season of contestants who stood out, whether for good reasons (Aubry and Cydney), bad reasons (the Bullies and Nick), or wacky reasons (Debbie and Tai), Michele simply didn't stand out.  By her own admission, she played the middle of the road, didn't piss anybody off that we saw, didn't make any brilliant strategic moves, but came up big when it counted.  And by doing so, she left TPTB a massive challenge in trying to figure out how to explain to us how she did it.  I think it's possible they could have.

Bottom line: if we're disappointed, it should be at TPTB for not giving us a full explanation for Michele's win.  They focused more on the big personalities of the game and left us scratching our heads trying to figure it out.

Total word to your whole post. And regarding the bolded part, my thinking is that they focused more on the game play of people they're thinking of getting back for another season. Maybe they were thinking that being a winner was reason enough to be brought back - or that viewers would attribute her win to a bitter jury :) 

55 minutes ago, Drogo said:

"You came into this game thinking you were a bad ass bitch but you're really just a puppy still suckling at the teat, and I don't think you stand a chance." 

That is the creepiest shit I've ever heard, Neal.  Kindly go home and come back never. 

Yes, that was creepy. And just with that little speach, he proved without doubt that Michele did the right thing removing him rather than Joe, that she was really very good at reading people and at assessing who was the biggest threat to her game, didn't he? 

54 minutes ago, candall said:

I think if they could have shown Michele making her way to a well-deserved win, they would have.  After six months of effort, TPTB want viewers to cheer and be satisfied and say "YES!"  It's not good for them when people say, "Seriously?" 

I don't think the cutting room floor is littered with THs where Michele is laying out her strategy and explaining why she wants to align with this person and not that one.  No miles of unused footage where, for example, Michele can be seen telling x one thing and y something else. 

The main deception I heard her claim at FTC was artificially "dumbing herself down" to do something or other with regards to Scott.  Okay, excellent, valid maneuver.  But if you were doing that, wouldn't you want to mention it in a confessional--if for no other reason than the natural desire to clarify to the folks back home that you're only playing a part?  And wouldn't the show love to show us that?  Here's Michele, our million dollar winner--unbeknownst to you, of course--making her moves!

**********

In my head, this is all coming out in a reasonable tone and not as a rant.  I thought both Aubry and Tai were more deserving, but I don't feel any rage about Michele taking it--that's how it frequently goes on Survivor.  I just don't believe the editors screwed up and dropped the ball (because essentially there was no ball there to drop.)

Replying to the bolded part: it was with regard to Nick, not Scot. And yes, they did show us that, and the talking head where she laughed that she was totally playing him by pretending to be meek and to go along with what he said, but that she had her own mind and that what she told him was not what she was actually thinking.

45 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

I agree that there was nothing to show where Michele was concerned.  We saw a lot of sun bathing and naps and I think that was about it.

Yes Neal was creepy.

I also think Julia is a very unlikeable person, she really isn't very different from her buddies Scot and Jason.  Her attitude at Final Tribal was just so smug and superior toward Aubry and Tai.  She was even snide to her "good friend," Michele. Ugh.

Nick isn't much better.  Why tell Michele she needed to prove she was intelligent  (rich coming from him) and tell Aubry she needed to show confidence if, after Michele cried and Aubry gave a very confident speech, he voted for Michele?  Does crying mean you're smart? Obvioulsy his mind was made up and he just thought he had a clever speech made up.

At the end of the day, I think this was a dumber than average cast and they didn't really understand good game play.  Tai's flips and Aubry's strategy were all just so much  stuff that didn't help their own cause,  so they would have voted for one of the dead chickens just because it hadn't worked against them.

I saw that very differently. Way I see it, Nick was informing her of what she had to overcome if she wanted to get votes. Giving her a hint. His statement to Aubry can be interpreted two ways: either he saw her as conflicted rather than confident, which she was in the early part of the game (and he, Nick, was voted out rather early), and therefore was giving her a hint to? (I would think that's the case, as he seemed to like her well enough in the game, had positive talking heads about her, and saw her conflicted) or he knew the jury was perceiving her as overconfident (based on tribal concils) and was nudging her to self-distruct because he was really rooting for Michele? (I see it as less likely, but who knows). Can't remember his advice to Tai, but at the time I remember thinking it made sense. Actually, I very much liked Nick's opening non question :) First time I remember someone giving useful advice regarding what the jury was firm or not on.

[Lamb18]

Here is my happy ending for Mark:

I imagine there were local people on the crew who helped strike the set after filming was over. One of them found Mark wandering around and took him home. Or as Spiderpig said: "PETTING ZOO!"

[Jersey Guy 87]

11 hours ago, SnarkKitty said:

Interesting how Aubrey said she and Cydney worked together and made all the decisions all along the way, and how Cydney was credited with many of the blindsides. Yet it was the Aubrey show. I guess it IS all about the editing. They tell the story they want you to know.

I think that was Aubry trying to play to Cydney's ego more than reality.  Plus, Aubry was good at recognizing she needed to accommodate what her allies wanted to do.

10 hours ago, princelina said:

I think Cyd gets credit because she'd get pissed at someone and want them OUT that night!  and Aubrey went along with some of those even if the person wasn't her first choice, because neither was it messing up her game.

Exactly - it was the same thing she did when she got Tai to not play the super idol and vote out Scot.  She asked him who he wanted to target and didn't try to force him to go along with her plan.  As long as one of her targets went home she was okay.

8 hours ago, InfiniteMystery said:

I don't think it was Tai's responsibility, but, rather, the freakin' show's to ensure Mark's safety. That was truly cold to leave Mark to the wolves, so to speak.

I don't think the show had any idea a chicken would survive until the end of the show.  Because every other tribe in the past has eaten whatever chickens have been provided.

7 hours ago, loki567 said:

I just can't quite get behind Michele's "great social game," now. A big thing for me is Scot's final jury words on Youtube, how he uses the Peter vote as his major reason for not voting Aubry and how he pretty much defines as Aubry wouldn't do what he told her to do and that's his major grudge against her. And since that's pretty much the same argument he had against Alecia, that strikes a negative cord for me.  

And Scot describes as Michele as useless as Joe but uses her last couple comps wins as justification for voting for her. Which okay, she's a female Fabio. But I think a large part of Scot and Jason's votes, they couldn't quite stomach voting for the women that played a part in getting rid of them, Cydney and Aubry, and their votes were about beating them more than anything. 

I agree completely.  Scot and Kyle were bitter that Aubry outplayed them and wouldn't vote for her or for Tai (who betrayed them).

[Lantern7]

I'm thinking the finale should be scheduled to run ninety minutes, so we could get at least an hour of Reunion. Probst would have backed the bus over Scot and Jason if he had more time. With the current format, Alecia could have dressed like a Celtics Dancer, and we never would have noticed.

[Whimsy]

Sorry for all the duplicate posts. It's a system-wide glitch and we're working on it. I will delete when I can, but I am at work so it may take me a few hours to get them all. 

[thehepburn]

Whoever thinks that this jury is not bitter needs to watch Cydney's Ponderosa vid. That's a tall stack of bittercakes right there.

[LanceM]

In regards to Mark the Chicken...

 

Finally, I have saved the most important question for last: What happened to Mark the Chicken after you guys wrapped Tribal Council? 
He was given to a local family.

[Daisy]

Yay Mark was saved. 

[Superpole2000]

A simple suggestion to improve the finale/reunion:

Ask each jury member for a 30 second summary of their voting rationale. Also, ask if they would change their vote upon watching the season on TV.

Also, why not do a 90 minute or 2-hour reunion? What Survivor fan wouldn't watch that? They could split the finale over two weeks or start at 7:00 if they were concerned about scheduling.

Oh, and they'll never do this, but...get rid of the live audience. Just stick with the cast and Jeff. No need for peripheral people, surprise guests, etc. Sit down and have a conversation with the cast, and fans of the show will enjoy hearing what they have to say.

[lids]

The whole Michele win makes me think about the recent news article that interviewed transgender men - i.e. men who used to be women. The men were saying that the differences in the way people treated them was alarming. They were often told to smile as women but no one ever told them that as men. Women are supposed to be seen as pleasant at all costs whereas men don't have to worry about that. Also, as women, the more decisions they made, the more they were scrutinized. As men, once they made a cut and dry decision, people bent over backwards to recognize why it was a good idea. 

In terms of comparing who was more deserving of the win, I can see why Michele would be rewarded for her obedience to gender norms and rules. Aubrey always came off as kind of heavy. If Michele was doing that on purpose and just swallowing her pride to win $1 million, that's good game play. Also, yes, it probably made people better able to connect with her because they felt like they understood her since she's right in line with what people expect of women. I have no problem with her winning.

It still makes me angry for Aubrey because if she had been a man she would have ran away with that win. We would be pointing out all the good strategic points she hit instead of critiquing her social game. As if men have to worry about connecting with people all the time? Scot will tell you different. All in all it feels like a sad commentary about life for women. But in the end, it's just a game and I'm sure Aubrey will do fine in her other pursuits. Also I hope she and Cochran become friends because he seems to think she's hilarious.

[fishcakes]

I'm fine with Michele winning. I think Tai was the best player of the three, but when they showed only two votes during the voting, one for Michele and one for Aubry, I knew that he didn't get anyone's vote, and at that point, I realized I would prefer Michele to Aubry. Mostly because it bugs me that all the criticism leveled against Tai is more aptly applied to Aubry. She was the disloyal, emotional one who could be easily swayed to change her vote even when it was bad for her own game. So if Tai had to lose because people laid all that on him when it wasn't true, then I'm glad Aubry lost because it was true of her. I don't think Aubry was a bad player or would have been an undeserving winner, but to see her actually doing all the things Tai was accused of doing and being praised for it was a little much. Overall, I just think Aubry's game was overrated, especially by her; it wasn't a bad game, just not as good as she thinks it was. She compared herself to Cochran numerous times, but even Cochran in his first season had a more coherent strategy than she had here. And finally, she could not have looked more bitter about Michele winning. Tai was smiling and hugging Michele, but Aubry went from smiling before the votes were read to immediately sour when the winner was announced, and when Jeff was talking to Michele right after the break, Aubry looked pissed. I know she has a bit of resting bitch face anyway, but there's RBF and then there's the face she was making during the reunion. 

Michele got the majority of the votes and in the end that's all that matters. I think she played a good game, lying low when it didn't serve her to do otherwise, and actively trying to save herself when it was clear she was on the bottom. It wasn't a flashy game, but it was solid.

In other news, Neal: worse than we imagined. I'm surprised staph could live in an environment as toxic as his body. Scot, not only bad at Survivor, also bad at dancing. Jason: were those ear gauges with tiny antlers? Jesus Christ, I'm going to have nightmares about his ears. Also, nice slipcover, dude. Joe: still boring. Debbie: still exhausting. Everyone else: so sorry you are mute.

[Mumbles]

Quote

Ask each jury member for a 30 second summary of their voting rationale. Also, ask if they would change their vote upon watching the season on TV.

Also, why not do a 90 minute or 2-hour reunion? What Survivor fan wouldn't watch that? They could split the finale over two weeks or start at 7:00 if they were concerned about scheduling.

I like both ideas. The final episode usually has a lot of fat they can cut. Make it 90 minutes with a 90 minute reunion.

I should have seen this coming when Nick opened with that pretentious "advice" speech. This is the Survivor equivalent of the sarcastic golf clap.

I admired Cydney's physical prowess and her mental sharpness but I could not shake how early in the season she was complacent when the guys in Brawn bullied that other woman. 

[sadiegirl1999]

Has anyone talked about how at that IC with F4? When Michele won, she INSTANTLY kicked over her puzzle when Jeff declared her the winner.

I am not sure whether to applaud or be pissed about it.

I mean, I get it, he declared her the winner. But it felt dirty to me, like she kicked as he said Mich...boom! Her puzzle felt "off" to me (like the top ring wasn't really on, but maybe that doesn't matter).

IDK, it just made me feel "ewwww". Anyone else?

[Alapaki]

I was kind of hoping one of the contestants would show up on stage at the reunions with a bucket of fried chicken.  

But, Srsly, having had a night to reflect upon it:

I still can't get worked-up about Michelle winning, even though my vote would've gone for Aubrey and I have to pick someone to be in an alliance with it would be Aubrey every day of the week.

Luck always plays a big role in the winner.  We'll never know how many potential winners never got a shot because they got randomly stuck on a shitty pre-merge tribe that couldn't win an Immunity Challenge.

In that regard, Michelle was extraordinarily lucky.  She avoided even going to Tribal Council for the entire first-half of the season.  After that, she was a viable target, and her name was brought up more than once.  She survived primarily because of decisions made by others to vote out someone whom they perceived as a bigger threat (as opposed to any maneuvering on her part).  I'd consider that luck as well.  

But the fact that she didn't overtly make herself a target (like so many other jurors had), and yet wasn't a carry-to-FTC-goat (like Joe would've been), is something that she should be given credit for IMO.  I think every one of the other F4 wanted to get rid of her near the end, but she won the most critical F4 IC.  I don't think the F3 Reward ultimately made a difference, but all 3 were fighting hard to win that challenge and Michelle was the one who won it.  Was she the one who kicked ass on the Immunity Challenge where the animals represented numbers to a combination lock?  IIRC she was only one smart enough to write the numbers in the sand to help remember them.

And, in the end, had Joe not been med-evac'd and someone other than Michelle won the F5 Immunity Challenge (the one that never took place), I'm confident that Michelle would've been voted out either 3-2 or 4-1.  With Michelle gone, Tai probably wins the F4 Immunity Challenge and goes along with Aubrey in voting out Cydney.  So Michelle was also lucky in Joe's literal lack of intestinal fortitude.  (also, if Joe turns up dead with a box of Dulcolax shoved down his throat, Aubrey should be the prime suspect).

Finally, Michelle got lucky in having to face a jury that was apparently more willing to reward (however grudgingly) the "outlast" part of the game over the "outwit" and "outplay" parts.  

But, ultimately, as the old saying goes, luck favors the prepared.  Plenty of players have squandered good luck.  Michelle didn't.  I think that counts.

[ChicksDigScars]

1 hour ago, thehepburn said:

The 3 Brawns on the jury were the swing votes. The Brains voted for the Brain. In the end, it was as Bounty said - the Jocks wanted to push the nerd into the locker and voted for the Beauty. 

Being a dumb but social slug is not a strategy. It's a skill tho and it won Survivor this season.

And to further emphasize the High School aspect of this season, with the pretty girl getting the jock vote and the nerdy smart chick getting pushed aside, we have Cydney's Ponderosa video. Holy crap. Separate lunch tables and all. Scott and Jason are such big fat fucking babies, and they had cutsey little dingbat Julia in their mean clique, too.  Grow the fuck up, assholes. You ruined the season by giving your votes to the least deserving finalist. and you can't even stop being bitter assholes at Ponderosa to a fellow juror? 

[ProfCrash]

Debbie's Jury Speaks probably gives the best explanation for why Michelle won. I think it was more then just the Brawn wanting to reward Beauty over Brains. Aubrey made some bad social moves and alienated some folks. Michelle was polite, friendly and a good person to be around. She is young and doing what young people are suppose to do, exploring the world and enjoying it when they can.

[Wouldofshouldof]

Two EW interviews with Jeff where he mentions that Mark was given to a local family, as a previous poster noted, and also reveals that he, Cochran, and Sia are good friends.  He even gave Cochran a ride home after the finale, LOL.

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/05/19/survivor-kaoh-rong-jeff-probst-finale-burning-questions

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/05/19/survivor-sia-jeff-probst-finale-kaoh-rong?hl=1&noRedirect=1

[thehepburn]

From S25 winner Denise's FB post:

Quote

#4. Jury votes are determined by a number of factors including the following:

Do I like you? 
Did you betray me? 
Did you salvage my ego enough in your justification of said betrayal
And lastly...
Do you value what I value? (intelligence, big moves, social connections...)

The thugs went by the first 2 factors and cast the deciding votes for Michelle.  Simple as that.

[Bouffe]

I enjoyed the show, and I usually enjoy the reunion show even better, but not this year. That reunion show was badly planned. I love Jeff but last night he kept cutting people off. Yes, Tai was rambling and looking for his words, but as a person whose mother tongue is not english, I completely understand Tai stumbling on his words. Having Jeff cut him off only made things worse. Why can't they add an extra 30 min to the reunion show and take time with everyone (or most everyone)? Sydney was not my favourite player, but she came fourth and yet, Jeff didn't talk to her at all! I would have loved for him to ask who would have voted for whom if Sydney had been in the F3. If it's the three women there, who wins?

I was disappointed that Michelle won. I felt that Aubry had the best game of all three. Then it was Tai. Tai was my favourite, but I knew no one would give him a vote. He did not articulate his game well enough at LTC (although that answer to Jason about being scared of his and Scot relationship was awesome). 

I love Debbie. She's quirky, smart, funny, eccentric... Maybe she was annoying on the island, but I enjoyed watching her this season. 

Interesting premise for next season. As others have stated, I am not sure there is enough of a big divide between genX and the millennials. We will see!

[laurakaye]

2 hours ago, Mumbles said:

I like both ideas. The final episode usually has a lot of fat they can cut. Make it 90 minutes with a 90 minute reunion.

I should have seen this coming when Nick opened with that pretentious "advice" speech. This is the Survivor equivalent of the sarcastic golf clap.

I admired Cydney's physical prowess and her mental sharpness but I could not shake how early in the season she was complacent when the guys in Brawn bullied that other woman. 

Isn't this how it used to be, or am I imagining it?  The final episode bled over a little bit into the reunion show, and if Probst is going to waste time on random people in the audience and pushing new CBS shows, then they absolutely should go to the 90/90 version.  I like hearing from the players that got voted out early.  Everyone should get a chance to speak, even if only for a few seconds.  Still cannot get over that Cydney wasn't allowed to say one word.

2 hours ago, sadiegirl1999 said:

Has anyone talked about how at that IC with F4? When Michele won, she INSTANTLY kicked over her puzzle when Jeff declared her the winner.

I am not sure whether to applaud or be pissed about it.

I mean, I get it, he declared her the winner. But it felt dirty to me, like she kicked as he said Mich...boom! Her puzzle felt "off" to me (like the top ring wasn't really on, but maybe that doesn't matter).

IDK, it just made me feel "ewwww". Anyone else?

I seem to remember other players doing the same thing...Ozzy comes to mind?  But in a final IC, I could totally understand getting so damned excited about winning and going to the finals that I karate-kick my puzzle into smithereens.  I thought it was kind of awesome.

Edited May 19, 2016 by laurakaye

[fishcakes]

9 minutes ago, Wouldofshouldof said:

He even gave Cochran a ride home after the finale, LOL.

Heh. This might be my favorite Survivor-adjacent fact ever.

[Wings]

Yes, a longer reunion please.  Do they not read SM?  No one likes the hurried and frantic pace and no time to talk to more players. 

If they insist on keeping the format don't allow the winner to greet her family/friends in the audience!   We don't care about that.  Wait until it is over or do that in a commercial break. 

22 minutes ago, fishcakes said:

He even gave Cochran a ride home after the finale, LOL.

I assume the he, is Jeff.  I love this fact!  Thanks wouldhaveshouldhave. 

Edited May 19, 2016 by wings707

[piequinn35]

Now I get it when Neal twitted: Michele's biggest move was the cheese burger because he was voted out in the jury by her lol

Anyways, I felt Aubry should have won, but I was not a jury member :/ brains for brains, brawn/beauty for beauty

I loved that Sia was there!!

I agree too, longer reunion pls! JP didn't talk to Nick, Alecia, Neal, Pete, etc... :/

 

Not a memorable season for me, uhm maybe for Mark the chicken that was not eatennn :P

Edited May 19, 2016 by piequinn35
added something