S01.E16: Legendary

[scarynikki12]

Quote

After the numerous sacrifices the team has made since the beginning of this ride, Rip decides that it’s time they each decide their own destiny.

 

[Jediknight]

No more Hawks and Savage, thank Zod.  They were the worst part of the show.

I love the Ray and Mick friendship.  How could you not love Ray as the getaway driver, and still being his happy self?  Next season hopefully they continue to be awesome.

The Justice Society has been established as existing.  I wonder if we're going to get Dr Fate, Sandman, Spectre, or Stargirl next season.

[nksarmi]

I have so many thoughts but they are totally overwhelmed by Justice Society of America!!!!!

Ok deep breaths - loved the triple timeline battle and defeat of Savage - so awesome!

Loved Rip asking Sara not to kill him and Sara made me tear up over Laurel - impressive.

Loved Ray playing get away driver for Mick and their new friendship.

Ok so Rory telling Cold he's a hero in 2013 clearly set Cold on his anti-hero path lol.

I'm totally ok with the Hawks not going on next season's mission. I love Hawkgirl but they failed her. Better to leave them in the realm of guest stars and that's it. Kind of hate their fated love anyway.

And Mr. Rory sends this guy to May 2016 - I can't WAIT to hear about this!

[tennisgurl]

Now THIS is the start of a good series! No more Savage, no more Hawks, just pair it down to the good characters, and have them fly around having adventures! And now its being tied into the greater universe! Give us that second season!

I still miss Snart, and, as excited as I am by the promise of the end of this episode, the show is less without him. It was good to see his death still weighing on everyone (I assume thats the main reason Rip dumped everyone else in 2016), and the scene with Snart and Mick made me feel a lot of feelings. He better show up elsewhere soon. I do hope they bump into him from time to time, and he gets to see Sara and Ray and everyone. 

Poor Sara. She still looked miserable at the start of the episode, and then she finds out about Laurel. And we get a Captain Lance sighting, always welcome. 

Kendry and Carter are useless, what else is new. I thought Kendra had her moments, but I will not miss them. Plus, now Ray can focus on his awesome friendship with Mick instead of his boring Kendra romance. Even though we have been deprived of the Ray/Snart weird sexual tension (look, I am not normally that person, but it was there! I saw it!). 

I swear, I could watch Savage get killed a million times. Three was good though. God that was satisfying. 

I am glad Rip survived. I can see Sara and Rip finding comfort with each other, now that he has let his family go, and Sara is still morning Snart and her sister. I could get behind that. 

Edited May 20, 2016 by tennisgurl

[Sakura12]

The Hawks are gone! Savage is gone! Bring on Season 2.

So it's Hourman from the Justice Society. Are they part of the Justice Society in the future? Or I guess they know them.  

I love how Sara just breaks Savage's neck so he can't villain monologue. I liked the fighting Savage through time scenes, the transitions made it exciting. 

And it has to be said again, the Hawks and Savage are gone!

[madhacker]

Hourman, COOOL!! We better get to meet the JSA next season as well as Supergirl.

Yeah I'm not gonna miss the Hawks, either.....

[Lantern7]

No more Vandal Savage. The Hawks are off the show (though they could still pop up for guest spots). And we have the Justice Society of America to anticipate. Talk about going off on a high note! And there's still the possibility of Snart coming back to life for the express purpose of making fun of Hourman.

"Are you a Time Master as well?" "No. Western Union." Moving on . . .

Once again, Vandal Savage is dead. Thank goodness. Seriously, Crump was more skeezy than sinister in his role. When the Savages met in 1958, I kept thinking they'd make out with each other. I suppose that's what fan fiction is for . . . disgusting, poorly-written fan fiction.

I feel a little bad for Sara. She's died three times, yet Laurel is the one that bites it. I wonder if Sara will go back to black, especially if nobody in 2016 takes up the mantle.

Great that Firestorm leveled up with canon powers. Granted, they're not going to be as "showy" as in comics because the show has a budget, but it gives Jax/Martin something extra. Besides, Mick should be the guy that sets fire to people

[HighwayFlower]

No more Hawks! Yay! If only we could have kept Snart I would have been so happy! 

Still really glad we will get a season 2, and who knows! It's TV. Always a way to get Snart back if things change for the actor.

[benteen]

Really enjoy the season finale!

The three-way takedown of Savage was pretty awesome.  CL killed it tonight with how Sara was after hearing about Laurel's death (a terrific as usual performance from Paul Blackthorne too).  I definitely enjoy the Rey/Rory friendship and I actually liked Rory saying he didn't want to lose another friend.  Some fun battles through time with them going to their old locations and battling Nazis (great line about that from Stein).  Never would have guessed that Rory would have the best character arc on this show.  Well done!

The team as the defenders of time is a great storyline and one that can keep them doing what they've been doing.  Though I fear for the timeline with this clown car of idiots defending it.

Savage is dead!  No more Hawks!  Though you can't replace what Snart brought to the show and the charisma-free first appearance of Alex Tyler isn't a promising start.

I'm glad this show is going to be returning sooner rather than later.

[KirkB]

How many times did Kendra get knocked out in this one episode? That was just sad.

Hooray! Savage is dead and the Hawks are gone! Yes, they can always come back, but they're gone for now. 

Is Suits over? Does anybody know? Not that I'm unhappy to see Patrick J. Adams.

If Firestorm is going to start getting more of his full powers he could actually become more interesting and useful, but won't that mean less for the rest of the team to do?

And the JSA? Okay. Now I'm curious.

[squidprincess]

1 minute ago, tennisgurl said:

I am glad Rip survived. I can see Sara and Rip finding comfort with each other, now that he has let his family go, and Sara is still morning Snart and her sister. I could get behind that. 

I really hope they don't go that route.  Rip and Sara's platonic friendship is actually my favorite relationship in the show.  I would rather not see it turn romantic.

I am actually going to miss Kendra.  I think she was robbed a bit.  She should have been as invested in the Savage quest all along as Rip was, what with the whole 4000 years of murder thing, but instead, they wrote her off into side tangents and side romances, and basically acted like this was a pleasure cruise for her.   It's annoying, because I don't think Renee is a bad actress.  She could have carried some of the emotional weight of the storyline if the writers had let her rather than leaving it all on Darvill's shoulders.

But Justice Society?  Rex Tyler? The team as time guardians?  I'm in.

[Sakura12]

I hope they don't go there with Sara and Rip. I'd rather they bring in a woman for Sara. I'm still holding on to my crack ship of Lady Blackhawk/White Canary. (even though I don't know if the new character is an LGBT character or even Lady Blackhawk). Now I suppose she can be another JS character as well. 

I'm also hoping Sara goes back go wearing black, she can still just call herself the Canary. 

From the description of the new season, Team Legends are the new Time Masters. I'm in. I'm glad I only have to wait until October. 

Edited May 20, 2016 by Sakura12

[kismet]

Congrats on entertaining finale. I enjoyed it, it was great the 3 time periods, the 3 kills. YAY Savage is dead and gone.

I was afraid there for awhile that they killed off Rip, I may not agree with his choices - but overall I love his imperfect character and did not want to say goodbye to him.

I missed Snart, I almost wish they had kept his contract to be a Flarrowverse floater secret until this week, because it did undercut some of his passing - because I know we will get him back.

I loved all the characters getting to go home and getting to have conversations with their loved ones. I'm glad they signed back up for round 2, bring on JSA!

Sara is amazing, I loved her response to her LL. I actual believed that they were sisters from CL's portrayal, which is something KC could never convey. Glad they made it impossible to use time travel to bring her back. CL is an asset to the Flarrowverse she can is both a kickass female warrior, but also has emotional range & chemistry with so much of the cast. Here's hoping for some new plots for her.

Stein - thank goodness he is back, I love VG and I need him on my TV. Loved that Jax went back to convince him. The actor that plays JAx may not be the greatest but he is growing on me.

And who would have foreseen Ray & Rory as the next crime duo? I love their bro chemistry, it just inexplicably works. I really hope they capitalize on it next season.

Completely forgot about the Hawks - see that is how important they were. Glad they are gone, but also glad they are not dead. There was no need for them to dead and gone. But there was many many reasons for them to be out of s2.

Edited May 20, 2016 by kismet
Forgot the Hawks, no big surprise

[Actionmage]

Quote

first appearance of Alex Tyler isn't a promising start.

That would be Rex Tyler, not Alex. Not totally discounting the possibility, as we have met a Green Arrow that isn't Oliver Queen, but in order to get a rise out of those who know Hourman, making the man who showed up Rex would make more sense.

I am glad that Vandal was defeated and that the Hawks got a chance to help kick his ass. I am beyond glad that Kendra had no hesitation in stabbing that s.o.b. this time. I wonder, though: Was that the correct knife? I know we got the big energy buble-turned-wave that went  over the city ( poor Central City!) Or is this akin to Malcolm Merlyn being able to brush VS into a dustpan in the crossover between Flash and Arrow? I was looking for Kendra's mace/Morningstar, but it wasn't used.

I love to pieces that Clarissa isn't going to be a stereotypical TV wife! She was very much a "don't you put any potential regrets on me" gal who will worry- because she loves that snotty genius of a husband- but a) it's not unfounded and b) she doesn't seem to be a shrinking violet. ( Though, the team should totally meet Shrinking Violet from the 30th Century! She can play with Ray even!) Clarissa proably is Doing Things. Maybe she could be involved in a timeline protection story, say right after the Ronnie/Martin Firestorm took off for Pittsburg. Clarissa facing Gen. Wade Eiling could be awesome! But that's in the future (as such), Clarissa was wonderfully pro-active in helping Martin keep active and vital, not that he wouldn't be, but Martin has a spark ( if you will) around Jefferson that he didn't have with Ronnie, even.  Still? I want a LoT dinner at Martin and Clarissa's next season.

I was hoping that Kendra had run into Easy Company, but I was glad that didn't pan out as the poor G.I. got ganked by Vandal.

May many fun cameos ensue next season!

[redfish]

Hello Rex Tyler/Hourman, I'll see you in season 2. The Mystery continues. I guess they're pushing the future Thanagar invasion down the road.

It's weird to have Heatwave, but no Captain Cold.

It makes sense (sort of) that the Hawks are out, their story is over now that Savage is dead. Maybe down the road when the show delves into the Thanagar invasion they'll bring them back.

Quote

Hourman, COOOL!! We better get to meet the JSA next season as well as Supergirl.

I wonder if the JSA is set in the past/future/alt-Earth.

Edited May 20, 2016 by redfish

[Delphi]

Ugh,  maybe it's because I have had a horrible week worth selling my house and then my uncle perishing in a horrible car accident,  but everything with Sara involving Laurel broke my damn heart and I was a wreck.   Paul really sold his mourning father,  that was damn sad. 

I'm glad that Rip didn't get to save his family,  it's fair,  cruel and really adds to the character. 

I really enjoyed the whole thing and can't wait for season 2.  

[Starfish35]

Taking the shipping conversation to the Relationships thread.

[John Ramos]

6 minutes ago, Actionmage said:

I was looking for Kendra's mace/Morningstar, but it wasn't used.

I *think* the explanation was this: The meteorites imbued the weapons with radiation power that was able to render Savage mortal when in its presence. With him in contact with the meteorites, those specific weapons became unnecessary. (Doesn't explain why Carter was unable to kill Savage back in Ep 2, but they probably hadn't quite figured out what they were going to do yet.)

[squidprincess]

2 minutes ago, John Ramos said:

I *think* the explanation was this: The meteorites imbued the weapons with radiation power that was able to render Savage mortal when in its presence. With him in contact with the meteorites, those specific weapons became unnecessary. (Doesn't explain why Carter was unable to kill Savage back in Ep 2, but they probably hadn't quite figured out what they were going to do yet.)

IIRC, it wasn't that Carter couldn't kill Savage at all, but that only Kendra could use that particular knife.  Because it had some priesthood significance for Chay-ara that it didn't have for Khufu (as he was only a prince, not a priestess).  Arguably he might have been able to use the bracelet-mace or something of his own.

[nksarmi]

5 minutes ago, Delphi said:

Ugh,  maybe it's because I have had a horrible week worth selling my house and then my uncle perishing in a horrible car accident,  but everything with Sara involving Laurel broke my damn heart and I was a wreck.   Paul really sold his mourning father,  that was damn sad. 

I'm glad that Rip didn't get to save his family,  it's fair,  cruel and really adds to the character. 

I really enjoyed the whole thing and can't wait for season 2.  

I'm not having that kind of hard week, but hard all the same. Still I think I could have been walking on sunshine and Lance and Sara would have gotten me. They made me feel Laurel's lost like no other moment in the Flarrowverse has.

I have to say how impressed I've been with Heatwave's character development. I honestly thought he was being brought on the show as canon fodder and he's turned into one of my favorite characters. You know his young self and Sara's young self totally bonded (and love that the show didn't forget to have Rip mention that he was going to take care of that) which will strengthen their present day bond I'm 99% sure. And I love his friendship with Ray - it's just so much more than I would have ever hoped for when they were in prison in Russia together. :)

I DO hope we get plenty of Snart next season. He will be missed but I understand the Flash wants him too. Still if Legends stays a shorter season - we should see him enough for me to get my Cold Canary fix.

[Sakura12]

Hawkgirl was freaking useless, how many times has Kendra fought Savage and was either knocked out or had be saved? Sara fought him once and killed him in about 5 minutes with a stick!

I wonder if TeenMick and TeenSara's time at the Time Nursery changed their relationship at all. Do they remember that? Or did they take the amnesia pills? 

Edited May 20, 2016 by Sakura12

[Goldmoon]

Kudos to CL for being such a good actor tonight.  Who would have thought that the emotional center for me would be the Cold/Heat conversation.  I teared up.  So so glad to see the last of Vandal.  Wasn't thrilled to introduce a new character in the last twenty seconds.  I needed space to *breathe.*

[squidprincess]

The trick with the helmet was pretty clever though.  So really, Hawkgirl ended up more useful than Carter (again).

It was pretty hilarious when Rip went over the side of the building, in front of two utterly useless winged heroes.  Good thing he had the ship ready.  :-)

Edited May 20, 2016 by squidprincess

[Lady Calypso]

Yes to no more Savage and no more Hawks! They just bugged me to no end. Kendra could have been great, but it just didn't work out. I was annoyed by her 'Carter!'. Like, she cares so much, but then she watched Rip tumble off of a building and doesn't try to run and save him. She just stands there until the Waverider emerges with him on it. By the way, that moment was pretty badass. But yeah, Kendra/Carter were useless. After having so many lives, they still couldn't do shit to defeat him. They just plain sucked at fighting. Not gonna miss them. Also, agreed with Mick's 'I give it three months! Tops!' 

I'm really glad Sara, Mick, and Rip got to defeat Savage. Sure, Kendra got to stab him, but Rip got to deliver the final blow to kill him. And the others got to do something like destroying the meteor (I laughed at Sara's 'You got my boots wet').

My heart did break for Sara when she found out Laurel was dead. I think that with all the times she died, (or 'died') and came back, she truly thought she could save her sister. I know that, for plot reasons and for actress reasons (mainly KC not coming back to the show), Sara couldn't just go back and save her, so they had to have Rip provide a random excuse as to why. Sara's scenes with her father were well done. He sacrificed having his only daughter survive so she can go save the world through space and time. Good for him. 

I finally really felt for Rip this episode. I think he really redeemed himself with his last act of heroicness (although I feel like the moment when he's talking to his team was too short.). I did laugh at him time jumping, though. I'm glad he didn't just give up and die. Plus, we got to see him have a nice moment with Gideon. 

Mick/Ray as a team? Who would have thought that would be a thing? But it works! And Mick going to visit Snart in 2013? That actually was bittersweet. Mick has changed so much, and he's become one of my favourites. I expected back before the series started that Mick had the least backstory, so they could really grow and expand on his character. I always thought he could be the black sheep that would surprise me, and he certainly did. 

Firestorm discovering a new advancement to their power? Sweet! I also wasn't sure if they would come back (Stein because of his wife, Jax because he always seemed the least reluctant to do this) but they made it work.

Patrick J Adams! Rex Tyler? I guess I'm going to be doing some research before the next season starts! 

[Lokiberry]

11 minutes ago, squidprincess said:

The trick with the helmet was pretty clever though.  So really, Hawkgirl ended up more useful than Carter (again).

It was pretty hilarious when Rip went over the side of the building, in front of two utterly useless winged heroes.  Good thing he had the ship ready.  :-)

Bwahahaha! I forgot about that. They just stood there with their thumbs up their butts while Rip plunged to his death. In the end, anybody could kill Savage. The only thing they needed Kendra for was to send the note that lead them to France to find the meteor that set the plan in motion.

[Sakura12]

I wonder if Past Snart was like "Who F are you and what have you done with Mick". 

Sara and Mick had no trouble killing Savage, of course if they didn't have that stupid rule of it only being Kendra. Team Killer and Pyro would've killed Savage a long time ago. 

[scarynikki12]

I never bought that Sara and Laurel were as close as the 'verse insisted.  I always saw them as two people who wouldn't have had anything to do with one another were they not related.  But Caity Lotz sold Sara's devastation at Laurel's death so well done show.  I think she mainly stayed with the team for her own sake but needs to frame it as being for Laurel as part of dealing with her grief. 

I was worried Rip really was going to sacrifice himself and I'm glad Gideon shut that down.  I like Rip a lot and his role works.  Let him continue to think he's in charge while everyone else keeps looking to Sara as their leader.  It's more fun for me this way.

I actually still really like Kendra, but there's no denying that she was given next to nothing this season.  I'm glad that she didn't die and could maybe show up in a guest spot down the road.  But just her, ok show?  I DO NOT WANT Carter back so leave him in Offscreenville. 

I'm still so impressed at Mick's arc this season and his begrudging affection for Ray is the best.  They play off one another wonderfully and I want that to continue in lieu of any further romance plots.  Ray is best opposite grumpy characters like Mick. 

Jax has officially become my second favorite after Sara.  I love him, I love Stein, and I love them together.  Him being impressed with himself opposite that nuke was delightful and I really want to see more scenes between him and Clarissa.  I feel like they would hang out were it not for the time traveling.  Stein would be so confused and it would be amazing.  Next season I want him to hang out with Sara some so I can flail.  She might not want a new card partner so they cold play board games or something.

Bye Savage.  Your death was pretty awesome but I won't shed a tear.

Justice Society!!  Bring it!  I had no idea who the Suits guy was playing but this is going to be fun.

[Cthulhudrew]

Finally Firestorm gets to actually use his powers. That, plus apparently no more Hawks as regulars (and no silly doomed romance back and forth every episode) and no more Vandal Savage, and this show just got much better. Big loss for ditching Snart as regular, but I'll at least stick around for the first episode next season. If it's good enough, maybe I can wipe the first season out of my memories like I did the Star Wars prequels.

[KirkB]

In the end they may have been a bunch of arrogant, useless jackasses, but I will give the Time Masters credit for one thing. They know how to build a ship. The Waverider flew into a star and hung there long enough for Rip to pass out, dream about his family, wake up, decide he didn't want to die after all, and still had power enough to fly back out of the star.

[squidprincess]

Clearly the Waverider runs on drama.  Needless to say, she'll never starve with this Captain or crew.

[BkWurm1]

Haven’t read through all the posts yet but wanted to get first thoughts down.

I will absolutely be back next season and even though this season was REALLY clunky, I would also recommend it because I think they’ve figured out their magic formula for next year– they just had to get rid of the big problem, VS and the fated Hawks. The plot was frequently terrible but I wouldn't have wanted to miss the character interaction.

 I can’t imagine anyone wanting Cold to leave so I suspect him dying in the finale was always the plan – I will be surprised if WM didn’t always know he was a single season character.  I still have hope he could return if need be.  It’s a twisty time travel show. No closed doors.

Well, no closed doors unless you are Rip’s family or Laurel Lance. CL was magnificent this episode.  I wept over Laurel!  Or rather I wept for Quentin and Sara.  Sara’s scenes with Rip were electric.  I was waiting the whole time for her to punch him.  (Hey, it’s their thing, lol) The follow up scene in her room was heartbreaking and yeah, I ship that. (Way down the road, super slow burn type ship that)  I like Rip well enough on his own but I LOVE him around Sara.

I was so freaking happy that Sara got to kill Savage.  Actually, I was happy with all the choices on who killed Savage.  Mick has probably been through more than anyone on the team.  It was absolutely his right.  Kendra too but I was extra happy that Rip still got to be the one that finished Savage off (even if the fact that he was still alive in 2021 after being dead in 1958 and 1975 makes no sense, lol.)

Also I cheered aloud when the Hawks turned down another season.  It’s funny though, I actually forgot that they were included in Rip’s invite to stay on the team and until they said, um, no thanks, I didn’t even see them there – I’ve trained myself not to pay ANY attention to them, and I don’t even hate either of them)

Stein’s wife is the most understanding woman in the world (with one of the worst wigs). I give it a pass though since in the last two or three years (since the explosion in Central City), Stein has been gone more than he’s been home.  She’s probably used to it that way, lol. 

Poor Jax’s mom!!  Five months with no word.  Ouch. 

Did I mention how awesome it was to hear Sara call herself a Time Master?  :) 

I liked that call backs to the previous times they’ve visited and I’d totally forgotten about the meteor in 1958.  Nice that was actually relevant. 

So the JSA is formed so there will be an organization able to repell the Thanagarians, right?

Who knew that Mick would be one of my favorite characters?  So looking forward to the Ray/Mick bromance. Would that be MiRay, AtomWave, HeatAtom?  (Everything else sounds even weirder.)

Got chocked up over Mick going to say goodbye to Leonard.  I’ll miss you man!!

Was really worried we might lose Rip.  Really worried.  Glad he changed his mind. 

Yep, looking forward to next season.  I saw the schedule for next year and it’s right there in the fall. I wonder if it will stay 16 episodes or be extended.  I also am looking forward to the introduction of another female teammate.  Sara is really outnumbered.  At least we do have Gideon.  I’m counting her since I was moved when she didn’t want to die.  That counts as a character.  Well, I get to count it, the network isn’t off the hook.  THEY can’t count Gideon as a female character. 

Edited May 20, 2016 by BkWurm1

[VCRTracking]

I admit, seeing Vandal Savage getting killed three times was satisfying. Thank god he's dead(hopefully for good).

Loved the homages to the Back To the Future movies with the ending with Rip fall off the roof and standing on top of the Waverider(even posing like Marty McFly).

Please tell me that soldier wasn't Sgt. Rock. You need to find someone who looks way more badass to play him.

I knew Sara's reaction to Laurel's death would hit me in the feels and Caity Lotz didn't disappoint.

[BkWurm1]

1 hour ago, Sakura12 said:

Hawkgirl was freaking useless, how many times has Kendra fought Savage and was either knocked out or had be saved? Sara fought him once and killed him in about 5 minutes with a stick!

I wonder if TeenMick and TeenSara's time at the Time Nursery changed their relationship at all. Do they remember that? Or did they take the amnesia pills? 

I'm sure there were amnesia pills for the kid's old enough and for them, gone for a few weeks won't make any difference, but how in the world to they explain how much newborn Ray would change in a few weeks?  Maybe Rip was able to go back and pick them up in a timey whimey way so that they actually didn't spend any time at foster care for Time Travelers. 

[blackwing]

Thank the stars, the season is over.  Hopefully Vandal Savage is gone forever, I can't take any more of that actor chewing scenery and doing his best menacing voice like he was a character straight out of "Xena Warrior Princess".   I hope the Hawks are really gone as well.  I have hated the actress who played Kendra from the start.  The guy who played Carter was a blank slate.

So the cast is trimmed a bit.  Wish they would replace Jefferson with the Robbie Amell version.  The guy who plays Jefferson is a lousy actor.  If they could get rid of Firestorm altogether I'd be happy.  Not a fan of Victor Garber here, and his penchant for saying "astonishing" with a twinkling eye.

Intrigued by this JSA guy.

[Artsda]

That was a great direction to head in season finale. Hawks are gone! Savage mission is over.  Laurel is dead in all timelines! 

I wish they would have grabbed Snart and brought him back. 

Great writing continuity with Sara finding her dad in the Lair. He was left there to handle things yesterday in that spot when Felicity went to deal with her parents. So Sara showed up in between scenes.

[squidprincess]

25 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I'm sure there were amnesia pills for the kid's old enough and for them, gone for a few weeks won't make any difference, but how in the world to they explain how much newborn Ray would change in a few weeks?  Maybe Rip was able to go back and pick them up in a timey whimey way so that they actually didn't spend any time at foster care for Time Travelers. 

They did say in Last Refuge that the plan was for Rip and company to come pick up the kids a few minutes or so after they'd dropped them off.  So presumably, that's what Rip managed to do.

[Cthulhudrew]

1 hour ago, BkWurm1 said:

nding woman in the world (with one of the worst wigs). I give it a pass though since in the last two or three years (since the explosion in Central City), Stein has been gone more than he’s been home.  She’s probably used to it that way, lol. 

Who knew that Mick would be one of my favorite characters?  So looking forward to the Ray/Mick bromance. Would that be MiRay, AtomWave, HeatAtom?  (Everything else sounds even weirder.)

How about HeatRay?

And yes, that was another awful wig. At this point, I am starting to think that the Arrowverse producers are just trolling with these bad wigs, and putting them on people at random. Either that, or else they've been slowly building up towards a master villain for all of these shows: Wigmaster!

(Maybe that's what they'll use instead of a giant starfish for Starro the Conqueror; a guy who controls people with bad wigs).

Edited May 20, 2016 by Cthulhudrew

[henripootel]

Quote

Loved the homages to the Back To the Future movies with the ending with Rip fall off the roof and standing on top of the Waverider(even posing like Marty McFly).

'Homage', 'rip-off', it's hard to tell the difference sometimes. They did replicate the same error - how did anyone on the Waverider know Rip would be forced off the roof right there and then?  It's the same question from the movie - how did Doc know Marty was gonna end up on the roof and have to jump off?  Still think it was less a tip of the hat to a classic movie and more of a cheesy recreation.  

Brace yourselves, unpopular opinion incoming: I thought that sorta sucked.  I could nitpick all the flat, vapid writing but I'll just focus on this: why did they need to divide up to tackle Savage in 3 different time periods?  The different times aren't all happening at the same time, that's how time works, so you can use the whole crew to tackle Savage in each time period.  You don't have to be immortal to exist in different time periods, everybody does that.  Savage's presence in all three times (as his original self, before he got the time machine) is proof of this.  It's pointless to divide the team, and dangerous as Savage has kicked the team's ass more than once, even bested Oliver Queen and the Flash.  Oh wait it's the finale, so now Savage is a bitch who can be easily killed by one person.  Nevermind.

This does, however, raise the question of whether or not Rip's family ever died.  I know we're supposed to think they did, and that Rip only got some measure of peace with this by personally pushing the knife in, and seeing a vision of his family before he (needlessly) took the exploding meteor into the sun.  But original Savage died in 1975 (at least), so he never got to live long enough to kill Rip's family.  So they're not gonna die at Savage's hand.  So what the fuck just happened?  Savage died in the past, so Rip can just go home now just like he's planned all along, right?

Not for nothing, but I thought it was pretty funny that the writers had Rip both sacrificing himself (by personally taking the exploding meteor into the sun), and coming to his senses and realizing that that this 'sacrifice' was completely pointless.  Just dump it off and skedaddle.  Yeah, and about that - how sure are we that an explosion so big it'd wipe out the earth won't also do bad things to the sun?  We kinda need the sun, so how can you be sure?  Why not take it, I dunno, anywhere else?  But no, it's the old 'drop it into the sun' trope, for no particular reason.  I swear, 90% the plot elements in this show are just xerox pages from The Big Book of Sci-fi Tropes. 

I will give them credit for acknowledging that Snart is still alive, in 2013.  I'm pretty sure that was supposed to be touching and for any other character, it might have been but Mick?  Mick needs closure?  We saw him straight-up murder a guy earlier in the episode so it's not like he's changed all that much.

Edited May 20, 2016 by henripootel

[thuganomics85]

Well, at least the show not only kept its word and ended the terror of Vandal Savage, they even found a way to kill him off three times!  Now that is one way to do fanservice.  Especially when one of the deaths is Mick pummeling him and setting him on fire, and the other is Sara just snapping his neck like it was nothing.  Fare thee well, Savage.  You are still one of the most disappointing villains of all time.

I'm also glad they seem to realize they have a Hawk problem, and neither Kendra or Conner will be sticking around to stink up the screen.  I almost felt bad over how useless they were until the very end, when they took out Savage, but I just couldn't.  Wherever it was the writing, the acting, or both, these two characters just can't compare to the rest of cast.  Isn't even close.  I'm not even going to miss any interactions with the other team members, because when I think about this season, I know I'm never going to be "Aww, I miss the days when Kendra and Ray kept hogging up the screen with their love affair.  Or all the times Kendra pretty much made Sara turn into a BFF from a rom-com.  Good times!"

Sara's reactions to Laurel's death was fantastic.  From her crying with her dad, all the way to pulling a knife on Rip.  Caity Lotz is really perfection in this role.  Still can't believe there was a time she was thought to be gone for good over on Arrow, so at least someone was wise enough to correct that major blunder.  Arrow's loss, is Legend of Tomorrow's gain!

I know they said they'll find ways to keep working Snart in, but I will miss him as a regular, and I liked his little send-off with Mick.  Still can't believe Mick ended up having one of the best arcs on this season, and Dominic Purcell end up giving a more layered performance then I certainly ever expected.  I will miss him and Snart, but I'm already getting a kick out of his stuff with Ray.  And that look Sara gave him over that stupid chicken remark, gives me hope for future episodes.  After all, he's clearly a Sara fanboy, as far as I'm concern.

I did like the tables being slightly turned, with Jax being the one who had to push a reluctant Stein back into the fold.  Not surprised it worked though.  Show needs it's weekly dose of Victor Garber!

Time Masters seem truly gone, so it looks like next season will be all about this Justice America group, and Rex Tyler.  I'm guessing Patrick J. Abrams is going to be back next season as a regular or recurring.  Have to think we'll be getting more team members too.  I wonder who?  I still vote Constantine and Nyssa, but as long as they are better then Kendra and Conner, anything would work.  Overall, a hit or miss season, but I'm hoping they will get it together more, now that they dropped the dead weight and rid themselves of a useless villain.

[Slovenly Muse]

17 minutes ago, henripootel said:

Brace yourselves, unpopular opinion incoming: I thought that sorta sucked.  I could nitpick all the flat, vapid writing but I'll just focus on this: why did they need to divide up to tackle Savage in 3 different time periods?  The different times aren't all happening at the same time, that's how time works, so you can use the whole crew to tackle Savage in each time period.  You don't have to be immortal to exist in different time periods, everybody does that.  Savage's presence in all three times (as his original self, before he got the time machine) is proof of this.  It's pointless to divide the team, and dangerous as Savage has kicked the team's ass more than once, even bested Oliver Queen and the Flash.  Oh wait it's the finale, so now Savage is a bitch who can be easily killed by one person.  Nevermind.

Ha! That is exactly what I came in here to post. This season has demonstrated SUCH a lousy grasp of how time actually works (they treat the mechanics of time rather contemptuously, actually), but this was ridiculous. Also, Savage's goal was to "erase time?" What on earth could that possibly even mean, and what could it get him? Utter nonsense. Furthermore, it bugs me that the show consistently treats an entire year like a specific destination. "Oh, she's being held captive in 1944! We'll just go to 1944 and spend 365 days scouring every inch of an entire city until she eventually arrives there!" Give me a break. I would think this show was written for children if it didn't require you to keep up with Arrow in order to follow what was going on.

[henripootel]

Quote

 I would think this show was written for children if it didn't require you to keep up with Arrow in order to follow what was going on.

Possibly the best measure of this: the whole opening monologue of '... they will be remembered as Legends!'  Uh, no they won't.  They killed Savage in the past before he could become famous as a destroyer of the world.  All the people who live subsequent to Savage's death have no idea what they were spared, nor by whom.  It'd be a silly little point were it not the title of the stupid show. 

[squidprincess]

53 minutes ago, henripootel said:

This does, however, raise the question of whether or not Rip's family ever died.  I know we're supposed to think they did, and that Rip only got some measure of peace with this by personally pushing the knife in, and seeing a vision of his family before he (needlessly) took the exploding meteor into the sun.  But original Savage died in 1975 (at least), so he never got to live long enough to kill Rip's family.  So they're not gonna die at Savage's hand.  So what the fuck just happened?  Savage died in the past, so Rip can just go home now just like he's planned all along, right?

I think that since we saw the future Savage interact with his 1950s self and later, the idea is that only the last death (2022) really stuck.  (Presumably, he did eventually heal after Mick and Sara killed him, similarly to how he healed after Rip killed him in 1975, during their first go around).  My guess is that they needed to kill him at all three points, near the meteor, in order for the last one to actually work.  The 2022 Savage was the one with the time machine, so in his case, he had already managed to take over in 2166 and had promptly already come back to kill Miranda and Jonas.  That's why he could taunt Rip about not saving the wife and kid.  Because he'd done it already.

I mean, it's still pretty convoluted.  But since Miranda and Jonas do seem to be fairly conclusively still dead, I think that's the explanation that works best.

(I totally agree that the splitting up thing seemed remarkably unnecessary.  Made for a cool sequence though.  :-))

Edited May 20, 2016 by squidprincess

[Starfish35]

It was a really good finale.  Not perfect, but very good.  I still wish we hadn't lost Snart.  It seemed wrong somehow to have the final battle be without him.  But I've been so impressed with the character arc for Mick this season.  He's gone from the character I was least excited about when it was announced he was added to the cast to one of the most well developed characters in the cast.  

Sara and Quentin managed to make me tear up about Laurel's death - a minor miracle.  Well, OK, I'm still not sad about Laurel's death, but Quentin and Sara's scenes still brought the tears.  

Thank goodness - Savage is dead, and the Hawks are gone!   Bring on season two! 

Missing scenes that I wish we could have seen: Jax returning home to his mother - did his father live?  Did anyone tell Lisa Snart about her brother? 

[FurryFury]

I liked it, I liked it a lot. Still plot holes galore and time travel making zero sense, but that's par for the course. 

Hawks are gone! Woohoo! Let me do a happy dance. I was so afraid Kendra will stay and they'll continue the awful pseudo-triangle. Ray continues to be pretty OK without her, I kinda like his developing bromance with Mick (who's a total tsundere, aww).

I actually bought Rip dying when he flew the Waverider into the sun, and was so bummed, I wasn't ready to lose him, especially so soon after losing Snart. So I admit, I FF'd through the scene to find out if he's alive, and then rewatched it properly. I liked Rip in this episode a lot, and I loved his scenes with Sara. I definitely think they have chemistry.

And speaking about Sara, damn, she made me feel something other than glee for Laurel's death. I was a bit disappointed she didn't stay for fighting Dhark in Arrow finale, it would make sense for her to do a small cameo, IMO.

Casper Crump was especially bad this episode. I cringed every time I saw Vandal. Glad to see him gone, hope for better villains in the future, and better casting.

So, Justice Society of America? I don't mind, although I don't know anything about it. Makes sense for something like this to happen, considering we have 4 superhero shows (and even with 3, there were enough heroes).

I'm really looking forward to season 2.

[kismet]

5 hours ago, Delphi said:

Ugh,  maybe it's because I have had a horrible week worth selling my house and then my uncle perishing in a horrible car accident,  but everything with Sara involving Laurel broke my damn heart and I was a wreck.   Paul really sold his mourning father,  that was damn sad. 

So sorry for your loss :( My condolences to your family.

[BkWurm1]

2 hours ago, henripootel said:

Not for nothing, but I thought it was pretty funny that the writers had Rip both sacrificing himself (by personally taking the exploding meteor into the sun), and coming to his senses and realizing that that this 'sacrifice' was completely pointless.  Just dump it off and skedaddle.  Yeah, and about that - how sure are we that an explosion so big it'd wipe out the earth won't also do bad things to the sun?  We kinda need the sun, so how can you be sure?  

 

The earth is like a spec to the sun.  1.3 million earths would fit into the Sun.  The sun can and does handle earth sized explosions all the time.  If you Google how big the sun is compared to the earth they even provide pictures of solar flares erupting from the surface that are hundreds of times bigger than the earth.  They dump everything into the sun cause the sun can take it. 

[cambridgeguy]

The whole not being able to save Laurel thing was inexplicable given how much they've mucked with the timeline - they know when Darkh was sitting around in prison without his powers, so just go in and kill the guy.  Rip said all of the Lances would have died if they tried (which means Darkh would have been able to take down everybody somehow) but that's absolute crap.  Plus it would have saved all those people who die in the nuclear explosion, but I guess that didn't matter. 

[BkWurm1]

Or maybe they take out DD only for Ruve' to step up as the big bad, use the idol herself and then go after Sara, Laurel and Lance and then keep going with the Nuke plan.  She was meaner than her hubby anyway, so she wouldn't stop with making Lance pay by killing his daughters, she'd kill him too.  Hive was always more than DD so with or without him, the same plan was a go. 

When Rip was talking about how time wants to happen and certain things just can't be changed, this kind of thing was one of them, that they solve one issue and death finds them in another.  Why they can sometimes save people is a mystery but I'm willing to believe that Rip at least believed it was hopeless for good reasons.   

[AudienceofOne]

I actually found the episode kind of boring. So boring that I still have no idea what was happening with the meteorites or what Vandal was trying to do because I dozed off. Every time CL came on screen she woke me up with her awesome but other than that I was pretty bored until Vandal was dead. I did enjoy Hawkgirl's "Thank you for being so committed to my quest that you actually got the job done for me while I was distracted with my love life" speech. And for the fact they are gone. Hasta la vista, Hawkpeople. Go get repeatedly hit on the head off screen.

[ottoDbusdriver]

So why did the Thanagars send those 3 meteors to earth in the first place ?  Prelude to invasion -- it would have taken millennia for them to traverse space and then crash on Earth, and then they just waited another 4000 years (give or take) to show up in person to take over.

That's some long term planning there.