S06.E01: The Red Woman

[AliShibaz]

(text omitted)

Count me among those who have felt increasing sympathy for Cersei. Boy, Lena Headey owns that part. I can't wait for her to take those religious crazies down! Can we free Margery in the process? Natalie Dormer is too awesome to lock away in a dungeon.

(text omitted)

 

The theme of this show has almost always been that the stronger-minded defeat the weaker-minded. If that continues, those relgious crazies will not stand a chance. I will very much be interested to see how the Boss Sparrow reacts when he is imprisoned and tortured. It will be interesting to see if he can call upon his higher power to save him from screaming and begging and promising to do anything if they will just stop torturing him.

 

After all, Turnabout is fair play.

 

(Note: IMO, The decision to have two forums - "Book Talk" and "No Book Talk" was an excellent decision!)

Edited April 25, 2016 by AliShibaz

[ACW]

This page includes a picture of the note Doran was reading (which would have been really useful for the audience to read in the show, as it somewhat addresses the location of his son's death):

http://www.makinggameofthrones.com/production-diary/objects-from-dorne

 

It's from Jaime, and among other things, says that he's sending his son back to Dorne for his own safety. So, we can assume that he was killed when he was almost back in Dorne, despite the editing making it seem otherwise (and despite the fact that he was painting a funeral eye-rock)?

[candall]

Maybe the Dothraki widows' home isn't that bad.  I mean, women like the Dothraki wives we just saw could be pretty entertaining companions.  There could be little communal compounds, and it could be all very Golden Girls.  There's a pool, cabanas, organized trips to the slave market... fun!  

 

Just taking those women out of the loop on the Dothraki public doggie-style rape protocol does much to recommend it.

[AliShibaz]

Maybe the Dothraki widows' home isn't that bad.  I mean, women like the Dothraki wives we just saw could be pretty entertaining companions.  There could be little communal compounds, and it could be all very Golden Girls.  There's a pool, cabanas, organized trips to the slave market... fun!  

 

JMO - But, if Dany was stuck in that home for the rest of this season, it would have to be an improvement over her current story line.

 

I know many people will disagree with this - given that the CGI dragons are supposed to be so fabulous. But I can't find any reason to get excited about her story line. I find everything about it incredibly NOT entertaining - except perhaps for those parts that do not have her on screen. Her character is incredibly one-dimensional. After a short time, I just get extremely tired of her. I'm almost at the point where I just Fast-Forward through all her scenes.

Conversation might leave a little to be desired, though.

"You will live here now."

"it is known."

"The pool is good for swimming."

"It is known."

"Dinner is at three o clock."

"It is known."

Almost as bad as talking to Ygritte.

 

LOL! I'm so glad to see that I am not the only person who feels this way about "It is known".

 

It is boring! It was boring after the third time it was said. It has been said far too many times and has never been entertaining.

[Kbilly]

But why didn't they put Dany in the WidowCompound before, when Drogo died? I can't recall--did they all think she just died in the pyre? I thought they stayed to see her birth dragons? Wouldn't they have informed her that then? And wouldn't the Dothraki know about some blonde chick their Khal married that you know, had dragon babies?

 

can this show go one episode without showing the Red Woman's tits? I get it. They are firm, high and saluting God.

 

When she was looking in the mirror and started for her robe I was like "Oh geez here we go with those things again!!" I didn't think the old body was THAT disgustingly horrifying. I'm more creeped out by Jorah's gross grayscale.

 

Ghost's howls of grief were just too sad, and how he laid down by Jon's body UGH heartbreaking. Please don't let anything bad happen to Ghost!!

Edited April 25, 2016 by Kbilly

[AliShibaz]

(text omitted)Not enjoying Arya being blind.  I'm hoping that girl from the temple who was hitting her with the stick is Arya's Frenchman who can change shapes, and that once Arya has learned to rely on her other senses to kick ass, she will have passed some kind of test and he'll restore her sight.(text omitted)

 

FineWashables - Excellent observation! I knew when that apprentice kept calling Arya "blind girl" it reminded me of someone.  It must seem awfully dumb that I didn't recognize that as Arya's dancing master. He was one of the greatest characters in the entire show. I would dearly love to see him again. Wouldn't it be magnificent if it turned out as you predicted? I am hoping above all hope that you are correct.

 

Good on you.

Edited April 25, 2016 by AliShibaz

[SimoneS]

I have to think that somehow Melisandre will raise Jon. She has lost her faith for the moment, but surely she will find it again before what should be a painful death. Shireen's death did not save Stannis, but surely it will save Jon, like the witch Daenerys sacrificed in the fire for the birth of her dragons. 

 

I think Jon will have more allies among the Watch than the small group in that room and the Wildings. I think that they will turn on Thorne as soon as Jon returns.

[GinnyMars]

I liked Dany and the Dothraki. I loved her surprising the Khal with her knowledge of his language & the revelation that she was married to Drogo. But I had to laugh at the look on her face when she realized she said too much and got herself into deeper trouble.

 

 

Dany just keep jumping into the fire.  One step forward (no rape!), two steps back (banishment for widows in Vaes) with this one.

 

 

Well, Daenerys opened her big mouth and got herself in deeper shit.  Classic Daenny.

 

 

If it were me, I'd much rather be in a cushy jail for life than a sex slave for life.

[dramachick]

I actually appreciated that they found a way to make discovery of Danerys' ring somewhat logical. I hadn't considered that a huge ring of torn up sod would result from the horses circling her, but it makes sense. I thought it also made sense that the duo followed the dragon's trail of bones to the ring.

 

Experienced trackers, or those who live close to nature, know how to read the landscape.

 

I'm glad Ser Davos is taking charge of the situation. He's got the most common sense in all of Westeros.  When Jon comes back to life, the two of them will be quite a team.  Of course, Jon must come back to life sooner rather than later because people tune in to see him in the flesh with his glorious hair flowing in the breeze and not lying stone cold dead episode after episode. He's the only eye candy left.

 

Even if she brings Jon back to life, the red witch can never redeem herself for poor Shireen.

 

Cersei cannot experience enough unhappiness to suit me. She has reaped the whirlwind.  It's hard for me to choose, but I think the worst thing she did was kill all Robert's illegitimate children.  Except Gendry.

 

I would be perfectly fine with never seeing Dorne again. 

 

I'm looking forward to the adventures of Sansa, Theon, Brienne and Podrick.  I know they won't make it to Castle Black just because, but it would be nice if Shaggy-Dog were out and about one day and found them.

[Athena]

But why didn't they put Dany in the WidowCompound before, when Drogo died? I can't recall--did they all think she just died in the pyre? I thought they stayed to see her birth dragons? Wouldn't they have informed her that then? And wouldn't the Dothraki know about some blonde chick their Khal married that you know, had dragon babies?

 

Most of Khal Drogo's khalasar left Dany to basically die when Drogo did. She wasn't in a good state (mental or physical) at the time any way. Those that stayed with her became her blood riders. They saw the birth of the dragons and they pledged to be in her khalasar so they wouldn't want her to be a retired crone. By this time, they were moving away from other Dothraki so no reason to send her back when she was off to conquer.

 

I was skeptical that this Khal hadn't heard of her, but I guess the Dothraki don't really care about conquerors not of their own.

[HumblePi]

I'm sure I'll be the only person in the forum (maybe in the world) wishing that Jon Snow stays dead. I never found his adventures on the other side of the wall that exciting. I have such a fear that if Jon Snow is resurrected that Ygritte won't be far behind showing up again with her twisted smirk saying 'you know nothing Jon Snow'. (groan)  I almost wished his men had placed his body on a funeral pyre and irrevocably removed any chance of his being reincarnated by the witch Melisandre. For having an entire episode to be named after her, Melisandre didn't do anything except strip down to her old self and take a nap under furs. Just keep sleeping Mel, and stop dreaming about bringing Jon back.

 

One last thing bothered me, it was when Jorah Mormont and Daario Naharis tracked Dany through Dothraki territory. Over hills and fields of grass they trod and only found the bones of what appeared to be a ram, not a full-fledged dragon. (Oh well, maybe Melisandre resurrected him too) But lo and behold, once Jorah dismounts there lies Daeneryrs's double-pearl ring right at the tip of his shoe under the thick grass. Sometime I need a metal detector to find my earring on my bedroom floor. Jorah found that ring among a thousand acres of thick grass. Nice work.

Edited April 25, 2016 by HumblePi

[candall]

But why didn't they put Dany in the WidowCompound before, when Drogo died?

Didn't all the community members who would have been sticklers for that sort of thing split while Kal Drogo was still in a vegetative state?   There weren't many witnesses for Mother of Dragons:  The New Beginning.

 

I have to think that somehow Melisandre will raise Jon. She has lost her faith for the moment, but surely she will find it again before what should be a painful death. Shireen's death did not save Stannis, but surely it will save Jon, like the witch Daenerys sacrificed in the fire for the birth of her dragons. 

That's interesting--you think the witch sacrifice was a component of the dragon hatch?  I just thought Mrs. "You will never hear me scream" was a bonus briquette as a punishment for all her bad ju-ju.

 

Mel's in trouble if we've established burning up a witch releases powers of that magnitude.  She might have to char to get Jon back on his feet!  No more milky bosom!

[DarkRaichu]

I have to think that somehow Melisandre will raise Jon. She has lost her faith for the moment, but surely she will find it again before what should be a painful death. Shireen's death did not save Stannis, but surely it will save Jon, like the witch Daenerys sacrificed in the fire for the birth of her dragons. 

Interesting theory.  Maybe fire god told Mel that Shireen's death would save a king but did not mention to her which king.  Someone need to re-watch the conversations surrounding Shireen death

Edited April 25, 2016 by DarkRaichu

[Knuckles]

As Brienne rode to the rescue of Sansa and Reek/Theon, with an assist from Podrick, whacking all the Bolton soldiers, what happened to the hungry dogs? Did they magically disappear, see a rabbit that looked better fed than Sansa? 

Those dogs were accustomed to human flesh, and tearing apart the various girls that Ramsay used for his hunts...while the fighting was going on and Sansa cowered under the tree roots...whither the hounds??

[whateverdgaf]

As Brienne rode to the rescue of Sansa and Reek/Theon, with an assist from Podrick, whacking all the Bolton soldiers, what happened to the hungry dogs? Did they magically disappear, see a rabbit that looked better fed than Sansa? 

Those dogs were accustomed to human flesh, and tearing apart the various girls that Ramsay used for his hunts...while the fighting was going on and Sansa cowered under the tree roots...whither the hounds??

They ran. Dogs are smarter than humans and they clearly saw that Brienne isn't to be messed with.

[Sunnydayman]

Which is stupid because Doran has never shown to be particularly cruel or weak, just disabled. Why would they side with this crazy bitch and some bastard offspring when you have a more level headed ruler? Doran came across as one of those This is the ruler we have been waiting for. Unless they are itching to get their asses killed because her lover didn't know to finish the job when he had the chance. What happened to Jon Snow made a lick more sense then this.

[jbrecken]

So will Myrcella's funeral use the eye stones Trystane was painting just before they killed him, or do they get used on himself?

[Sunnydayman]

I'm with you on this. Those girls are bastards so a legitimate relative would get to rule after Doran. Maybe they will give Dorne Dany and merge two uninteresting storylines together.

[wayne67]

Cersei cannot experience enough unhappiness to suit me. She has reaped the whirlwind.  It's hard for me to choose, but I think the worst thing she did was kill all Robert's illegitimate children.  Except Gendry.

 

Didn't Joffrey organize that because he didn't want threats to his throne. I remember Tyrion snarking at her and her saying it wasn't her idea... and him going "oh".

 

Or am I misremembering ?

[Cyranetta]

Opening with Ghost's howling really hit where it hurts.

 

Sansa's taking Brienne's oath was a beautifully done scene and unexpectedly moving. Sophie Turner deserves kudos for the gradual shift from victim to "leader of the pack".

 

I would happy watch an entire hour of Tyrion and Varis reviewing the situation.

[Chicago Redshirt]

If the Red Witch does, indeed, have the power to raise the dead, then why would she raise up Jon Snow instead of her man Stannis?

 

Two reasons come to mind.

 

The first is that from what I'm understanding, Brienne decapitated Stannis. I think the series had a scene where Arya asked Thoros (another red priest) if he could bring back someone without a head (meaning of course Ned). And he told her no. 

 

The second is that she has now been disillusioned of the notion that Stannis should have been her man. The great victory that he was supposed to achieve against the forces of darkness -- he couldn't even beat the Boltons, let alone the White Walkers. If she is having a crisis of faith, it probably is better for her to turn to a new hope rather than the old one.

[dangwoodchucks]

This is my outlook.  All that's happened to Dorne, the loss of direct connection to the Iron Throne through Oberyn's sister, The loss of Oberyn (even if he is partly to blame, he died gruesomely in a House Lannister run Kings Landing, by the known Lannister goon who killed the previously mentioned Sister) and how does Doran answer all  of this, he makes a Lannister girl the princess of Dorne?!?!?!?!?!?   I can't blame Ellaria and the Sand Snakes for thinking "WTF".   Doran and Oberyn didn't believe in hurting children.  Ellaria and her Girls clearly believe an eye for an eye trumps high minded morals.

 

Trystane seemed to be very much his father's son.  And he actually loved Myrcella.   That was probably the deal breaker when it came to deciding his fate.   I'd imagine the Sand Snakes left Dorne right after Jaimie, Bronn and Trystane.   My question is......are they in Kings Landing to do anything else?  

 

I liked Sansa's scenes tonight and think  I'll continue to find her story one of the best in the whole show because her circumstances are constantly evolving for better or worst.   Betrothed to Joffrey, set aside and made an abused prisoner, minor conspiring with the Tyrells before being forcibly married into House Lannister, forming a bond with Tyrion despite his family before the fallout of the Red Wedding, witnessing the death of a King at his wedding before fleeing.  A fugitive from the Iron Throne and showing up at her insane Aunts castle to be betrothed to her maladjusted cousin, suffering attempted murder by her Aunt only to have circumstances turn and witness her Aunts murder, scheming to help cover it up, betrothed to Ramsay and ultimately ending up out in the Wilderness, running for her life in her deceased father's lands about to die from hypothermia being held in the arms of Theon Greyjoy.  I could imagine Sansa just replaying the last couple of years going "Damn" or something equivalent.

 

Also interested in what's ahead for Margaery Tyrell because when  you think about it, she actually does have some things she could confess.   Namely, her families role in the murder of a king and letting said Kings Uncle and his wife take the fall.

Poor Sansa! When Theon hugged her I couldn't help but think how much that poor girl needed a hug after all she'd been through and how many relatives she'd lost.

[dramachick]

Didn't Joffrey organize that because he didn't want threats to his throne. I remember Tyrion snarking at her and her saying it wasn't her idea... and him going "oh".

 

Or am I misremembering ?

 

Don't know and don't care.  It wasn't her idea to kill Ned, but he lost his head because of her, didn't he?  Cersei and Jaime are at the root of most of the evil doings in Westeros, and I hope that they get their just desserts, but they probably won't.  In the meantime, I'll just have to be content with their temporary suffering.

[Andromeda]

I'm sure I'll be the only person in the forum (maybe in the world) wishing that Jon Snow stays dead. I never found his adventures on the other side of the wall that exciting. I have such a fear that if Jon Snow is resurrected that Ygritte won't be far behind showing up again with her twisted smirk saying 'you know nothing Jon Snow'. (groan) I almost wished his men had placed his body on a funeral pyre and irrevocably remove any chance of his being reincarnated by the Melisandre.For having an entire episode to be named after her, Melisandre didn't do anything except strip down to her old self and take a nap under furs. Just keep sleeping Mel, and stop dreaming about bringing Jon back.

I actually am wishing Jon Snow stays dead, it subverts the expected tropes. Plus, I can't see anything else happening that won't feel like a big Deus Ex Machina. But I accept I'm in a tiny minority, and will be fine either way, as long as the story is told well.

 

And, I'd rather see Shireen back...  

[bmoore4026]

GinnyMars, on 25 Apr 2016 - 2:59 PM, said:

If it were me, I'd much rather be in a cushy jail for life than a sex slave for life.

 

Yes, but from what the Dothraki were saying, she's not getting a jail cell - she's going to be entombed alive!

[wayne67]

Don't know and don't care.  It wasn't her idea to kill Ned, but he lost his head because of her, didn't he?  Cersei and Jaime are at the root of most of the evil doings in Westeros, and I hope that they get their just desserts, but they probably won't.  In the meantime, I'll just have to be content with their temporary suffering.

 

To give him his due... most of the Westerosi drama has been orchestrated by Littlefinger in his attempt to his rise of power. He had Jon arrn poisoned by his wife and then set Ned on the trail of incestuous Lannisters and everything spiraled into chaos and death.

 

Not that I disagree with your overall conclusion. Cersei sucks, but I hate her for her actions towards anyone she has power over, the common folk, Sansa, her brother, her servants and so on and so on. The arming religious zealots was a particularly stupid move on her part.

[HumblePi]

I actually am wishing Jon Snow stays dead, it subverts the expected tropes. Plus, I can't see anything else happening that won't feel like a big Deus Ex Machina. But I accept I'm in a tiny minority, and will be fine either way, as long as the story is told well.

 

And, I'd rather see Shireen back...  

Who knows? Maybe Melisandre will be faced with the decision of having to sacrifice her youthful looks and body and forced to live in her recycled body which is old (and let's face it, not as attractive) maybe she'll go gather up some pretty wildflowers to place on his grave and light a candle instead.

[Notwisconsin]

... I thought for fuck's sake......

Who is fuck, and why should we do anything for her sake?

[Hecate7]

Olly is a child. I cannot begin to work up any anger or demand for vengeance against him. As a child, Olly cannot think pragmatically or consider the long term consequences. All he can see is revenge. Now Thorne and his traitors, they are another story. I wish them all painful deaths. I hope Tormund runs Thorne through with his sword and then Ghost rips him apart.

 

I wonder how long before Jon wakes up, maybe episode three at this rate.

 

 

there are plenty of children in this story. Not all of them are like Ollie. Look at, say, Bran. Does he turn around and murder Osha, Hodor, or Maester Luwin? No, he does not.

[Knuckles]

What I am looking forward to most...Ramsay and Roose turning on one another. Yeah, Walda and baby Roose are probably goners in this match-up, at least if Ramsay wins. I am thinking as a victorious commander who defeated Stannis, the Bolton forces will side with Ramsay. Plus, they have seen what Ramsay does to recalcitrant noble families who decline to pay their taxes. The prospect of being flayed tends to focus the mind.

Roose seems to feel pretty secure, despite the loss of both Sansa and Theon, secure enough to threaten Ramsay with total loss, all delivered in Roose's smooth, sexy voice. He seems confident that the Bolton forces will all be at his command.

I think it was a major error on Roose's part.

[AliShibaz]

Which is stupid because Doran has never shown to be particularly cruel or weak, just disabled. Why would they side with this crazy bitch and some bastard offspring when you have a more level headed ruler? Doran came across as one of those This is the ruler we have been waiting for. Unless they are itching to get their asses killed because her lover didn't know to finish the job when he had the chance. What happened to Jon Snow made a lick more sense then this.

 

AFAIK, we have no idea just what has transpired between Ellaria Sand and the palace guards. We also have no idea how any of the other citizens of Dorn feel about going to war.

 

I have no more knowledge than anyone else, but in general, I would have to guess that like most people around the world, no one wants to go to war unless some leader has them scared of imprisonment if they fail to back the leader or they have been brainwashed somehow into thinking it's a good idea. Of course, given this show is a fantasy of sorts, we really don't know what the population of Dorn believes when it comes to avenging the death of Prince Oberyn. I would only hope they are half as smart as Doran Martell and want nothing to do with a war.

Edited April 26, 2016 by AliShibaz

[peggy06]

I know nothing (Jon Snow), meaning this is pure inference from the show to date. But I still feel sure they are going to resurrect Jon. The latest hint IMO is the fact that his body is still lying around. The Watch know what can happen to a body, none better. If he were dead-dead, he'd be burned.

 

Chicago Redshirt: Two reasons come to mind.

The first is that from what I'm understanding, Brienne decapitated Stannis. I think the series had a scene where Arya asked Thoros (another red priest) if he could bring back someone without a head (meaning of course Ned). And he told her no.

The second is that she has now been disillusioned of the notion that Stannis should have been her man. The great victory that he was supposed to achieve against the forces of darkness -- he couldn't even beat the Boltons, let alone the White Walkers. If she is having a crisis of faith, it probably is better for her to turn to a new hope rather than the old one.

Agree completely with this. She already had an eye on Jon, anyway. She smells the blood of kings. Or divines it, or however she operates. 

 

I keep coming back to the whole sequence with Thoros, and to all the hinting about Jon's lineage, and things like what Chicago Redshirt said above. My conclusion is that Jon's story is far from finished.

[CouchPotatoNoLife]

Unpopular opinion here, but I understand and sympathize with Olly and Thorne. I love Jon, but I understand why so many members of the Night's watch have a problem with what he did. The Wildlings are the lessor threat, when compared to the white walkers, but lets not pretend they are zero threat.

They are a savage people, (eg. in the first season they tried to kidnap Bran). Olly's family and village was killed by wildlings so I understand his utter hatred of them. I know as viewers we had nothing invested in his family and village, but obviously he would have a lot.

 

The truth is Jon put the Nights Watch into a very hard position. There only advantage over the wildlings is the wall. They are vastly outnumbered. Without the high defensive position of the wall they can easily be overwhelmed. They have limited food supplies, and when they years long winter sets in the wildlings could easily decided to take their food by force. That is assuming the wildings dont just start raping and plundering south of the wall.

 

To the vast majority of the Nights watch the wall was the ultimate defense and Jon allowed in a huge threat to help deal with a even larger threat. I understand the anger.

[ParadoxLost]

Unpopular opinion here, but I understand and sympathize with Olly and Thorne. I love Jon, but I understand why so many members of the Night's watch have a problem with what he did. The Wildlings are the lessor threat, when compared to the white walkers, but lets not pretend they are zero threat.

They are a savage people, (eg. in the first season they tried to kidnap Bran). Olly's family and village was killed by wildlings so I understand his utter hatred of them. I know as viewers we had nothing invested in his family and village, but obviously he would have a lot.

 

The truth is Jon put the Nights Watch into a very hard position. There only advantage over the wildlings is the wall. They are vastly outnumbered. Without the high defensive position of the wall they can easily be overwhelmed. They have limited food supplies, and when they years long winter sets in the wildlings could easily decided to take their food by force. That is assuming the wildings dont just start raping and plundering south of the wall.

 

To the vast majority of the Nights watch the wall was the ultimate defense and Jon allowed in a huge threat to help deal with a even larger threat. I understand the anger.

 

I think you can argue that Jon let in a threat to fight a threat that isn't very real yet to most of Night Watch.  It was mostly Wildings and a handful of Night Watch friendly with Jon that saw the White Walkers in action.  I'm trying to remember, but outside of those who are loyal to Jon, I don't think there have been direct confrontations with White Walkers.  So to his assassins Jon let in the Wildings so they could help fight bogey men from legends that are hundreds/thousands of years old.  And I doubt any of the actual witnesses are considered credible by Thorne and his followers.

 

I still want Thorne dead for having the audacity toe say 'yes, I killed the Lord Commander, but I never disobeyed an order.'

[CleoCaesar]

He was paralyzed with fear while how many Crows died around him... paralyzed until he saw a chance to get revenge for himself (on Ygritte, who shot his father.)

 

That doesn’t really a good case for why we should hate Olly. Ygritte murdered his father, so Olly caps the bitch. In the world of the show, that’s fairly standard revenge protocol. Everyone else can get revenge, except for this kid?

 

I'll stand alone and support Olly and his FU to Jon Snow.  If it were me, and I watched Red and her street gang slaughter everybody I knew and loved and killed my parents in front of my eyes, she'd have an a bullet with her name on it inside my firearm.  And if my good friend started screwing my family's killer and wanted me to just let bygones for her AND her gang of killers because he was in twu wuv, I'd have a matching bullet with his name on it too.  To hell with him.  Blood is thicker than water.

Agree completely. The Olly hate is so ridiculously overblown and illogical.

 

Of course I also think Jon Snow is one of the most boring, one-note characters on the show AND Ygritte was beyond annoying.

[DrSpaceman73]

I thought this first episode was a rather ho hum around the horn reintroduction to where all the characters are after the end of last season.

Its hard for me to buy the argument that those in the Night's Watch don't believe in the White Walkers. It's the very reason the wall exists. You don't build a 500 foot high, or however high it is, wall to keep out a mostly disjointed people, until recently, like the Wildings If everyone in Westeros built a wall to keep out all enemies like that, they'd have walls every few miles in that country. To be one of the Night's Watch, follow its oath, dedicate you life to defending the wall but then say no I don't believe in the White Walkers seems completely contradictory.

I have no sympathy for Cersei. Even her walk of shame was her own doing. Yet he/she who is without sin cast the first stone. She learned why that is true.

Her children.......I feel bad for Myrcella, I will grant her a small bit of sympathy there. Got caught up in a feud she had nothing to do with. She raised Joffrey though to be a psychopath, completely her fault.

I don't hate Olly, even though I disagree with his decision to kill Jon Snow. And I can understand the Night's Watch stance not the Wildings, even if again I think they made the wrong decision in killing Jon Snow. They could have at least given the plan a chance to work to see where it was going. As it is now, they have actually created a bigger mess for themselves because by killing Jon, they have greatly increased the chance the Wildings are going to attack the ones who killed him and create more fighting.

I find the Dorne scenes and that women/three daughters a bit cartoonish. It's like Looney Tunes does Game of Thrones. I half expect a "That's all Folks...." At the end of their scenes.

I assume the fact they still have his body and no one is burning Jon SNow means somehow he will come back to life.

The Varys/Tyrion scenes here were kind of a waste, in my opinion, wandering around the city opining on the situation. The ships burned, about all you need to know from that scene that we didn't already pretty well know.

Edited April 26, 2016 by DrSpaceman73

[Muffyn]

I find the Dorne scenes and that women/three daughters a bit cartoonish. It's like Looney Tunes does Game of Thrones. I half expect a "That's all Folks...." At the end of their scenes.

I too have a hard time seeing them as big bads.  They are cartoonish. Even when they kill someone I expect it to be cartoon violence.  The person will jump up after being impaled and start running.  Next thing you know they'll run right into a painting of a tunnel. 

[Lady S.]

I still want Thorne dead for having the audacity toe say 'yes, I killed the Lord Commander, but I never disobeyed an order.'

"Loyalty is the foundation of the Night's Watch, that's why we just had our second consecutive mutiny. Jon betrayed us by forcing us to kill him." That was some real fancy rhetorical footwork there. Thorne has the makings of a great politician.

[AnnaMayWong]

As Jon Snow lay dying with his blood pouring from his body, did it not form the silhouette of The (nightwatch) Wall❓

[LittleIggy]

Jon Snow is still seriously dead.

Hooray for Brienne! Talk about the cavalry!

I hate the Dorne storyline. Just takes away air time from the other stories. I hate that bitch and her bastards.

Edited April 26, 2016 by LittleIggy

[Hecate7]

AFAIK, we have no idea just what has transpired between Ellaria Sand and the palace guards. We also have no idea how any of the other citizens of Dorn feel about going to war.

 

I have no more knowledge than anyone else, but in general, I would have to guess that like most people around the world, no one wants to go to war unless some leader has them scared of imprisonment if they fail to back the leader or they have been brainwashed somehow into thinking it's a good idea. Of course, given this show is a fantasy of sorts, we really don't know what the population of Dorn believes when it comes to avenging the death of Prince Oberyn. I would only hope they are half as smart as Doran Martell and want nothing to do with a war.

 

 

Well, perhaps there is a very large portion of the population who, confident that they do not actually have to do battle themselves, want a war and they want it now! Dorne does look as though it could be home to a hefty portion of well-fed older men long past any danger of being called to fight, who like the idea and the sound of vengeance for Elia, or for Oberyn. I think Ellaria simply snapped and lost her mind when Oberyn died. I think Obara and Nym are toast, though, along with their cousin. For once I'm actually rooting for Cersei--she will want to kill the girls on principle, and for once she'll have caught someone who actually deserves it.

[Hecate7]

I'm with you on this. Those girls are bastards so a legitimate relative would get to rule after Doran. Maybe they will give Dorne Dany and merge two uninteresting storylines together.

 

I think they deliberately withheld legitimate relatives. Unless Arianne is out there somewhere, then once Cersei gets through with Nym and Obara, Tyene will rule Dorne with her mother, Ellaria, as regent, in a position roughly equal to Cersei's. Cersei and Ellaria will then be in the awkward position of hating each other's guts yet slobbering to wed their children to one another, (since Tyene cannot marry Danaerys, and Cersei clearly plans to bump off Margaery as soon as she can).

[Bec]

That discussion between the Khol and his men about the best things in life was lifted straight from Monty Python.

Seriously, I laughed out loud at that. At first I thought they would leave it at one or two funny lines, but the bit just kept on going until they were making a full-on list of the Dothraki’s 5 favorite things. All that was missing was a musical number to tie it up.

 

That combined with the writing on the wall and the guy preaching in Meereen, I wonder if someone watched Life of Brian recently.

 

Super old Melisandre, WTF?

Considering full frontal male nudity seems to be performed by dudes with old man balls that no one wants to see far more often than full frontal female nudity is ever performed by any woman who has even the slightest sag anywhere… that felt like sweet, sweet revenge for this disparity. Muahahahaha!

 

Who set the ships on fire? They have got to find out who is in charge of the Harpies.

You’d think those Harpies would want the ships to get built so Daenerys will go away and they can easily take over again. Not very smart, Harpies, not very smart.

 

Well, Daenerys opened her big mouth and got herself in deeper shit.  Classic Daenny.

That depends, is it some kind of retirement home for Khals’ widows, or is it a tomb like someone upthread said? I’m not getting the impression it’s a tomb. Either way, they’re not gonna stick around to make sure she stays there, are they? Can’t she escape as soon as they leave her?

 

Arya.  She's still blind and now that other girl is just showing up to beat her ass each day?  It's like Daredevil, if Matt Murdock and Stick became much younger and women.

Daredevil is exactly what I thought of, too. I was like “this is part of her training, isn’t it?”

[Lady S.]

That depends, is it some kind of retirement home for Khals’ widows, or is it a tomb like someone upthread said? I’m not getting the impression it’s a tomb. Either way, they’re not gonna stick around to make sure she stays there, are they? Can’t she escape as soon as they leave her?

Not a tomb, we've actually been there already in s1, back when Vaes Dothrak was the Essosi location on the map. (And back when the Dothraki were much smaller scale on s1's much smaller budget.) It was the widows who had Dany eat a horse heart so they could somehow foretell her baby's future. They're basically treated as Dothraki priestesses. 

 

FWIW, I just updated the character guide thread.

[AnnaMayWong]

Don't know and don't care. It wasn't her idea to kill Ned, but he lost his head because of her, didn't he? Cersei and Jaime are at the root of most of the evil doings in Westeros, and I hope that they get their just desserts, but. they probably won't. In the meantime, I'll just have to be content with their temporary suffering.

Exactly.

Cersei is an evil bitch devil bruthafuc#€rl. She's like a fiendish chanteuse determinedly warbling and wailing her dirges at her own Club Abbatoir. All of those Barantheon offspring slaughtered--infants, toddlers,...

Nothing indicates that their demise was quick and painless. What about their mothers' unfathomable sorrow.

She and her 'bruluvah', Jaime, allowed their devil spawn to publicly and privately harass, harangue, and relentlessly torture a child. All occurring with Cersei awash with glee and immense satisfaction at Joffrey's sadism. And, Jaime, once again, showing his immense disinterest in a child suffering at the hands of his family. His only sick care and desire being that twisted Cersei.

I just hope that both Cersei and her vile brother find out that repentance, desired or not, may prove to be a brutal taskmaster

....and that payback may be more of a bitch than she (is).

[Oscirus]

Which is stupid because Doran has never shown to be particularly cruel or weak, just disabled. Why would they side with this crazy bitch and some bastard offspring when you have a more level headed ruler? Doran came across as one of those This is the ruler we have been waiting for. Unless they are itching to get their asses killed because her lover didn't know to finish the job when he had the chance. What happened to Jon Snow made a lick more sense then this

 

To be fair, the Dornish people have been getting bullied at least as early as Robert's Rebellion when they were forced to defend the king, because Rhaegar couldn't keep it in his pants. Then Ellia gets raped and murdered as does her children and nothing happens. Now the prince got murdered and once again, nothing happened.  The people were just sick of being bullied and Ellia and crew used that anger to fuel their raise to get rid of the prince and raise to the top.

[halkatla]

The biggest reason I have for wanting Jon Snow alive again is simply because otherwise all the long boring scenes north of the wall, in the snow etc etc will have been for nothing. I just can´t have that.

[qtpye]

On 4/25/2016 at 2:46 AM, Duke Silver said:

[snip]

I am almost rooting for Cersei to take out the High Sparrow, since his sanctimonious act is working on my last nerve...then I remember that this means I am rooting for Cersei and the Mountain. Well, so be it. But I bet Tommen buys the farm, and Cersei knows that too.

[snip]

I struggle with this too, but I always end up cheering against religious zealotry, so the High Sparrow & his sheeple can take a dive off a high cliff for all I care.

The only reason the High Sparrow is in power is because Cersei armed these crazy assholes.  Why did she do this...oh yeah, she could not stand that the people liked Margery better.  This is a woman who would rather the people starve and give extra food to well food dogs just to spite someone.  She is a self centered pig and frankly, I am glad that her happiness is turning to ashes in her mouth.  I hated her walk of shame, but I think she would just laugh at anyone else having to suffer the same.

On 4/26/2016 at 3:03 AM, BookElitist said:

Don't know and don't care. It wasn't her idea to kill Ned, but he lost his head because of her, didn't he? Cersei and Jaime are at the root of most of the evil doings in Westeros, and I hope that they get their just desserts, but. they probably won't. In the meantime, I'll just have to be content with their temporary suffering

Exactly.

Cersei is an evil bitch devil bruthafuc#€rl. She's like a fiendish chanteuse determinedly warbling and wailing her dirges at her own Club Abbatoir. All of those Barantheon offspring slaughtered--infants, toddlers,...
Nothing indicates that their demise was quick and painless. What about their mothers' unfathomable sorrow.
She and her 'bruluvah', Jaime, allowed their devil spawn to publicly and privately harass, harangue, and relentlessly torture a child. All occurring with Cersei awash with glee and immense satisfaction at Joffrey's sadism. And, Jaime, once again, showing his immense disinterest in a child suffering at the hands of his family. His only sick care and desire being that twisted Cersei.

I just hope that both Cersei and her vile brother find out that repentance, desired or not, may prove to be a brutal taskmaster
....and that payback may be more of a bitch than she (is).

Giant WORD to all of this.

Edited April 29, 2016 by Drogo
Removed blank quote.

[CletusMusashi]

Alas, poor Alexander Siddig. He died proving to us that there is one thing that will never be tolerated in Dorne: quiet, subtle acting.

[DarkRaichu]

On 4/26/2016 at 8:31 PM, CleoCaesar said:

He was paralyzed with fear while how many Crows died around him... paralyzed until he saw a chance to get revenge for himself (on Ygritte, who shot his father.)

That doesn’t really a good case for why we should hate Olly. Ygritte murdered his father, so Olly caps the bitch. In the world of the show, that’s fairly standard revenge protocol. Everyone else can get revenge, except for this kid?

I'll stand alone and support Olly and his FU to Jon Snow.  If it were me, and I watched Red and her street gang slaughter everybody I knew and loved and killed my parents in front of my eyes, she'd have an a bullet with her name on it inside my firearm.  And if my good friend started screwing my family's killer and wanted me to just let bygones for her AND her gang of killers because he was in twu wuv, I'd have a matching bullet with his name on it too.  To hell with him.  Blood is thicker than water.

Agree completely. The Olly hate is so ridiculously overblown and illogical.

Of course I also think Jon Snow is one of the most boring, one-note characters on the show AND Ygritte was beyond annoying.

I blame Jon Snow though.  All he should have said to the rest of the NightWatchers was "Do you think the giants and a bunch of murdering horde are scary?  Wait untill you see what a horde of White Walkers can do.  Thus we need to stand together or else we ALL die"

What Thorne said (and NW reaction) only made sense if Jon never explained to them what the White Walkers were capable of.

29 minutes ago, CletusMusashi said:

Alas, poor Alexander Siddig. He died proving to us that there is one thing that will never be tolerated in Dorne: quiet, subtle acting.

I was more surprised Indira Varma stayed this long in a show.  She does not have a good track record as far as longetivity in TV series.  Not Sean Bean bad mind you, but pretty close ;)

Edited April 27, 2016 by DarkRaichu