S05.E18: Ruby Slippers

[Serena]

Wow, Jamie seemed pissed in that tweet.

She already clarified ages ago that she loves A&E and it wasn't directed at OUAT. I HOPE they have already reassured her that they'll give her a decent love interest in S6. Who the hell cares about Ruby and Dorothy? This show created so many great female characters (even as recently at S4, with Elsa and Anna) and this season we get the absolute awfulness that is Merida and Dorothy? WTF?

[Randomosity]

Duh. I didn't think of that. Still I think it would be harder to carve something on a smooth slab of upright stone than on wood.

Yeah, have you ever tried carving words on even plastic or wood? You'll pretty much get chicken scratch, even with your dominant hand. Carving anything into a rock hard enough to be made into a headstone? Not ever going to happen just by scratching with a hook. You can't actually just carve what looked like granitic material. He needed the chisel. (My profession deals with hardness of different materials like rocks.) So don't worry about trying to rationalize the 'handwriting' - it has no basis in reality anyway! :)

[Arnella]

So much wrong with this episode that I just sat there with a WTF look on my face. Thank you all in this thread to clarify why.

 

I read the term "hate-watching" earlier - I think that is what I have been doing for a very long time - I will sacrifice for Robert Carlyle but even he can only do so much with this material.

 

I was really annoyed by a moment of sexual attraction and 2 nicknames between short-term acquaintances equaling TRUE LOVE.  I was pretty happy with Ruby and Mulan finding and building a relationship.  Mulan deserves a LOT more than to be stuck in the hero friend zone over and over.

 

It never occurred to me that Toto could give true love's kiss but it makes SO much more sense!  What great WoO fan service that would have been!  And a great shout out to the unconditional love of dogs.  And a REAL twist instead of pasted on plot conveniences they portray as cool twists.

 

Someone mentioned that Snow could've taken Hood and Pistachio with her.  Yes and how about taking Henry (who never should have been brought in the first place) and pregnant Belle who's baby is in immediate danger from Hades (although I don't know if they know about that).   There wasn't any particular hurry so just stop and think a minute people!

 

I wouldn't put it past the writers to leave Milah and Gaston to suffer for all eternity but I hope you are all correct that Auntie Em's demise means that they will free all of the souls... but I still wouldn't put it past them to leave them all to suffer...

Edited April 18, 2016 by Arnella

[Panopticon]

Didn't care for the episode, but did enjoy Hades announcing his "teaching moment."

 

Oh, and Captain Charming. I always like them together, although in this case it sort of drove home the weirdness of Robin Hood's absence. If he was just going to hide in the woods with the baby rather than helping Regina and company, why not send him and the baby home with Snow and Red?

[jmonique]

This show had such promise when it began, but the showrunners have become completely incapable of juggling multiple compelling storylines. Dorothy should have met up with Ruby and Mulan ages ago, and I forget WTF Ruby and Mulan were looking for to begin with, but their story should have been tied to the main storyline.

 

Instead, we have two women kissing so that A&E can check that box off of their to-do list.

 

God bless Meghan for trying, but she had zero chemistry with the actress playing Dorothy, who was just so bad and wooden that I can't be assed to learn her name.

[YaddaYadda]

Am I the only one who was confused as to why Hook carved Charming's name on the headstone? Why didn't he carve Zelena's name or Belle's name or anyone else's name? Just seemed like a huge plot hole to me. And why didn't Snow offer to take Henry with her?

 

It comes down to choice at the end of the day. Neither character are like that where they will condemn someone to the UW so that someone else can be freed. It's a nice difference from what we saw in 5x14 where Rumple burned down the boat, and then sent Milah swimming with the souls. 

[Curio]

It's crazy how disappointed I can get even though I have such low expectations for this show. 

 

I find myself using this gif a lot for this show.

 

Yeah, have you ever tried carving words on even plastic or wood? You'll pretty much get chicken scratch, even with your dominant hand. Carving anything into a rock hard enough to be made into a headstone? Not ever going to happen just by scratching with a hook. You can't actually just carve what looked like granitic material. He needed the chisel. (My profession deals with hardness of different materials like rocks.) So don't worry about trying to rationalize the 'handwriting' - it has no basis in reality anyway! :)

 

I think most people don't realize how difficult it is to scratch letters into a surface that hard. Especially if you don't have the right tools. Has anyone here tried to scratch their initials into a tree using a knife? I doubt it looks as pretty as your real handwriting.

[greekmom]

I agree with a few posters above. There was no character development with Dorothy. The whole "tru wuv" between her and Red, I just couldn't buy it. I would have thought more Mulan and Red because they went off, had some adventure together, etc etc. Spent more than 2 freaking seconds together.  I was actually hoping that all Dorothy needed was a kiss/lick from Toto. She really loves that dog and that dog was faithfully with her.

 

I'm really getting tired of the Hades story, the Belle/Rumple/baby story, the Underworld story, etc etc.  The only story I'm half interested in is Regina and Zelena.  Those two really do well together.  Can't Henry just write their names off the hero's stones, and back into Storybrook? Sheesh. The have the Author with them. 

[blugirlami21]

Why are we so eager to get back to Storybrook? This basically is Storybrook, everyone and their mama came along and if they didn't, they showed up somehow. It's not going to be any different than what we have now imo, ymmv.

The writing isn't going to be any better or different when they beat Hades. Why not enjoy the change in scenery while it lasts? I actually like this arc for the most part. Hades is actually a pretty scary villain, what he did to Auntie Em was quite dark for this show.

Henry's the author but we've been told time again that he can't just make stuff happen. Wasn't that the lesson of that stupid author storyline? I still hate that they introduced that into mythology. It reeks of character retconning. But I digress.

I'll concede that Charming and Hook are too nice to carve an "innocent" persons name into the headstone. I'm just so used to the super gray morality that this show has that my mind went right to that. I know that neither Rumple or Belle would hesitate. I wish the others knew what Rumple did to Milah. They might have at least thought about carving his name on one then.

Edited April 18, 2016 by blugirlami21

[kili]

Reasons why I am unhappy with Dorothy/Red being a TL couple

1) We'd already had build up for Red/Mulan. We had an episode where they met and sparked. In the back of our minds, they have been growing as a couple.

2) There was no build up for Red/Dorothy. They had one argumentative walk and barely reached detente before they instantly became TL. If the writers don't invest in the relationship, why should the viewers? 

3) Mulan/Red had chemistry and Red/Dorothy did not (granted, chemistry is subjective,  but so is this post).

4) TL is forever. I like Red and find Dorothy obnoxious. Now, Red is glued to an obnoxious character forever. I don't need to see Dorothy again. Or her little dog. 

5) We've waited two years for Mulan to get a girlfriend and now she gets to stand on the sidelines? Where is the emotional pay-off? 

6) Mulan Rouge is a better name than Ruby Slippers.

[Suzysite]

I have watched from the very beginning, but after being bored, annoyed, and enduring the bad acting and stupid storylines of this miserable season I've finally taken it off my series recordings list.   See ya, Once.  I'd rather watch Call the Midwife.

[YaddaYadda]

I'd rather have something slow as molasses with Captain Swan, than an insta-true love that will never be revisited again. 

 

This is how I know the whole LGBT was an afterthought meant to have some factions of fandom shut the hell up about it already. Watching that whole thing last night made me feel bad. Yes, it was a nice moment, but I felt so very short-changed. Ruby is a character we've known since the show started, she is Snow's best friend, she is a fighter, and a hero in her own right. And I think her character deserved better than something this quick. 

 

It makes no sense that this is how they chose to handle it, and I think a few people said it about A&E who said that they didn't wanna make a special episode out of it. They did, because they stalled the entire show for a filler episode where Ruby is worried sick about Dorothy, and frantically looking for her, where we know from their interaction in Oz that this thing is going somewhere.

 

And the whole entire thing was so clumsy. I would have preferred they didn't even involve the gang in the Underworld at all. Ruby is a fucking werewolf who can sniff out the direction a small dog is going in. You're telling me that she needs a locator spell to find Dorothy who is still in Oz? She left her hovel on her own accord to go find Zelena.

 

This wasn't a brilliant coup on the writers' part. It was a bit insulting.

 

Plus they need to knock it off with the insta-love. This is 2 couples in a matter of episodes and it needs to stop. I get we're dealing with fairytales, but it irritates the hell out of me because people don't insta fall in love (or it rarely happens). 

[Olivia Y]

To be fair, I guess this abruptly falling in love plot is pretty much how nearly all the side-characters in OuaT seem to do it. Hades and Zelena managed to fall in love during a bicycle ride, so why not Dorothy and Red during a walk? I think they may have even exchanged a few more sentences than H/Z. Didn't part of the 'author' plot have him fall in love with Cruella in a matter of hours? Ugh, I give up trying to ask 'how can you fall in love that quickly' because otherwise half the episodes in this series would be void (which might not be a bad thing).

 

Yeah, the Dorothy/Red pairing came out of nowhere, although it was sort of telegraphed pretty early on in the episode that was where they were going. I didn't know about the 'very special episode' thing, so I wasn't sure they'd actually go there. I thought Toto was going to be a possibility too, but that was...too weird. It was sort of a semi-surprise I guess? 

 

I was confused when Mulan mentioned having some experience with a sleeping curse - was she there that much when Aurora was actually asleep? I know she helped Philip find her, but wasn't it pretty much "oh look there she is, oh look she's awake now"? 

 

So who's serving the chicken now that Auntie Em is a puddle? 

 

No clue as to what they're doing with Mulan. Why is she in the episode at all? Just so Red had someone to talk to about true love? She did that with Snow (actually the two scenes felt kind of repetitive). Seems like a waste of the actress if all she gets to do is stand around looking happy for other people who barely acknowledge her existence. Why remind the audience of her story arc unless they're trying to go somewhere with it?

 

Since neither Aurora nor Red seem like options now, I can't really think of any other existing characters who will be a good candidate for Mulan if she was to get a True Love storyline. Elsa may have been an option but with Frozen 2 in the works I doubt they'd be allowed to use her again. I /really/ don't want new characters introduced just for a hasty one-episode love story (again), but yeah, the only other option seems like just letting her story hang there. 

[Anakerie]

Poor Mulan...always a bridesmaid... I hate you, Show. However, thank you for shutting Belle up for a while. Now can we just leave her like this forever?

[Curio]

To be fair, I guess this abruptly falling in love plot is pretty much how nearly all the side-characters in OuaT seem to do it. Hades and Zelena managed to fall in love during a bicycle ride, so why not Dorothy and Red during a walk?

 

The issue is that Adam & Eddy gabbed too much in interviews before this episode about how the new couple would have a similar love story in the vein of Emma/Hook and Snow/Charming. When you build your audience up to make comparisons to the best slow-burning or long-running True Love couples on the show, fans are automatically going to assume (rightly) that the writers have been spending multiple episodes building up to the LGBT reveal. Which is why many fans thought they would pair Mulan and Ruby because, you know, they actually spent multiple episodes together before this.

 

However, thank you for shutting Belle up for a while. Now can we just leave her like this forever?

 

I'm not going to lie...but I would love it if Belle remained in a sleep coma until the series finale when Rumple can finally True Love Kiss™ her. Until then, I want Rumple to remain a deliciously awesome asshole who doesn't have to worry about Belle dragging him down.

Edited April 18, 2016 by Curio

[toodles]

Raise your hand if you asked for more belle. Anyone? That's what I thought.

Edited April 18, 2016 by toodles

[Olivia Y]

Yeah, the parallel to Snow/Charming is essentially "we didn't like each other at first, and then we did", except here the antagonism lasts all of 5 minutes (if that) and then it's TL. I have to say I do appreciate Meghan Ory's acting though, she could sell 'being in love' with the best of them. Such a pity she had so little to work with.

 

(Also, the 'friend of Dorothy' thing doesn't work, given that...this is no longer friendship. If anything, both Mulan /and/ Red are 'friends of Dorothy' if they wanted to get that joke in there...)

 

What is the budget of this show like? I"m guessing part of the issue is that they can't afford to keep such a large cast on all of the time, so a lot of threads gets dropped or dealt with off-screen. I can't even keep up between seasons - did they ever explain what happened to the Knave of Hearts? Or Cinderella? Or Lily who had an entire half-season built around her but then just...faded into the background? Wouldn't it have been handy to have someone like Maleficent in the Underworld to help them out? But why am I even thinking about this?

 

(Also, nice to know Belle stops in with the main characters every now and then to gossip and true love and what not...)

[Camera One]

If they were willing to devote more episodes to it, they could have had Red deliver Aunt Em's kiss and THEN realized that Dorothy was who she was looking for and maybe her happy ending... Snow could have talked to Red about how she was looking at Dorothy once they got to Oz.  

 

Better casting for Dorothy would have made a difference.. I mean, Merlin and Nimue did insta-love way better and it's not the writing.  

 

They also needed to develop Dorothy better.  In "Devil's Due", they should have shown Dorothy in Kansas to show her life and her perspective (verbally summarizing her backstory just fell flat), and Zelena trying to get her silver slippers there or something.  I know they needed to develop Zelena/Hades in that episode, but maybe they could meet in Kansas first.

 

The whole "loved by Oz" thing needed to be shown.  It was said so many times, but frankly ,why would the people of Oz love some abrasive woman who doesn't know how to smile.  

 

Is Glinda still trapped?  Red and Dorothy could have gone on a adventure to free her.

Edited April 18, 2016 by Camera One

[Chaos Theory]

First off I am all for the relationship between Ruby and Dorthy. I think in theory it works. I would have liked to have seen it fleshed out more over a couple of episodes big then again the shows major flaw is that unless you are a lead (and even then) it doesn't bother to flesh out your relationship more then it has to. I doubt we are going to see Ruby and Dorthy again which is a shame. I would love to see how their relationship progresses. I really would.

[BoPeeps]

Mediocre filler. Sadly typical.

(Channeling Elaine Benes from Seinfeld ) yadda yadda yadda.

Only looking forward to the season finale.

[myril]

At least they didn't kill Dorothy or Red or both shortly after. Something /sarkasmoff

 

Whatever the writers, A&E would have done, they couldn't win.

 

Maybe A&E were actually convinced they would do something not looking like a special episode, but it was rather foolish to think they could do that in the first place. Sure, the episode had threads of the overall story arcs for the main characters woven in, okay, but that was not the point, and that is something they probably didn't get. They could have avoided this feeling of a special episode, a special treat only, if they'd brought in Dorothy earlier, episodes before, and kept her around as recurring in the present timeline, involved in trying to find a way to beat Hades, practically making her an important character for the overall story arc of this part of the season, and stretched the story of her and Red falling for each other for more than one episode. Of course it's possible we might see them again, should hope, there would be enough reason, but with this show wouldn't expect it to happen. But wouldn't heal what they already did wrong.

 

They could have done better with Mulan and Red, because those two have been established characters on the show for a while, but still wouldn't have solved the problem, that even those two are pretty much sideshow and have been barely present. The only chance to do better would have been in this scenario as well to make them practical regulars for at least half a season if not more, bring them right in the middle of the main story arc, and give them more screentime, not as background lurkers and story tool for the main character but as essential for the bigger story arc.

 

Everything else quite simple just can't rid of the overtone of being just an afterthought and never anything more, as something for the LGBTQI fans as treat but not as being an integral part of the show. That is what A&E and some in the audience show never understood in all the heated discussions over the years. Yes, more representation is great and should be by now not even worth much of a question at all, it just should happen by the way, but sadly even that is not yet the case. What they now have done on OUaT might have been great maybe 5 years ago, or 10, but today it's not much of a progression, it's more a concession that a show like OUaT, created by as they claim open minded people, can't anymore go without at least one LGBTQI guest episode or some minor LGBTQI characters. I know lesbian, gays, bisexuals are still reveling a lot in subtext and all the little breadcrumbs we're used to get by now for pretty much a generation, but it's understandable that expectations are growing. Xena first aired 20 years ago, and the Canadian show Lost Girl showed over the past five years something different is possible, and Netflix Sense8 is pushing things further, and OUaT didn't nothing that impressive here. Only difference is, OUaT airs on one of the big U.S. broadcast networks, one that though is quite progressive seeing Grey's Anatomy, but OUaT is family program, that still is a corner in the TV world struggling to open up a tad more to diversity. Reason why so many of those reactionary people still feel so entitled to claim this as their world and now fill the Facebook page with their narrowminded views. Only reason why I thought it still made sense to keep a bit of pressure on OUaT to finally do something

.

That they said that it would be no special in interviews was hilarious and something I never took any serious, not after 4 seasons of experience with this show. I am by now more surprised, how many people are still clinging to that idea, that this show would ever give anything but a special LGBTQI treat at best for a few episodes, frankly, I think that ship has sailed some time ago, latest with 3rd season still not really getting anywhere in more diversity.

 

Aside though of the bigger picture of questions of better representation, more diversity on screen, and being less invested in this show by now and more of a very casual viewer, not caring about the main characters anymore and indifferent to their stories, I enjoyed Dorothy's and Red's love story as a onetime, one hour entertainment. I basically liked it. The love story was nice, even Kansas and Wolfie was something cute, yes cringeworthy, cheesy, but cute and cheesy go hand in hand quite often.

 

There might have been not the big on screen spark, but it worked well enough for me, and both actors, Meghan Ory and Teri Reeves did what they could with the little the script offered, tiny looks and awkwardness, there was something going on. Easy to miss when the faces are nearly frozen in the cold and with not so great lightning in the dark, but they tried.

 

I like Dorothy, but I think I get why a lot of people don't. Yes this Dorothy is seemingly wooden, rough, harsh, appearing bitter, but after all that she likely went through with Zelena commanding Oz is that any surprise? But that is the problem with head canon and being not told on screen. I saw her as being not the dreamy jolly child we know from the classical movie but a grown up Dorothy hardened by a wicked witch's pettish reign over the country, one who lost family, had not the happy times she got in other versions. Don't know if she will return, but so far think it's a bit of a pity that they made so little good use of Teri Reeves, she has some fighting skills. But this show likes to waste actors, don't they.

 

Dorothy and Red came somewhat out of the blue, but I didn't mind that they got to a TLK that fast, because taking it as rather stand alone episode. Furthermore I think, at the very core of OUaT is the idea of true love as something miraculous and magical and mostly instant, the big myth of our modern times, celebrated very much by Disney (next to the big parent/family true love and blood is thicker than wine thing). Yup, sometimes they dance around each other for a while to keep up tensions, the chase is after all the fun on screen not the finish, but many fictional romances share that idea of rather instant love on first sight. A lot of people believe that is all what fairy tales are about. OUaT is no different, never has been.

 

Thinking of how important first impressions indeed are when we meet new people, it's not even that far-fetched, just that in real life it takes for many longer to figure it out, that they have been hit, and even longer eventually to make it work to get into something that we would see as a truly lasting relationship and not just as an intense though sure great and happy crush.

 

As I see it the shows binds TLK, true love to something with deep impact, makes it something of magic, driven by magic as much as it can create magic. Magic is in OUaT something that some just have, some to some degree can achieve without being gifted (born) with it, it's something you need to learn to master and control eventually, and that can be hard work, but it's nothing really earned, you just have it basically or suddenly can do it at times. Why should true love, as being magical in its nature in this fictional world, be any different? And when people can do something magical without much of a training, see Emma, then why shouldn't it be as much possible that two people can have TLK without knowing each other even? Isn't a version of the tale of Sleeping Beauty even that the prince only heard rumors of her, never met her before? At least Dorothy and Red had a couple of hours, a field trip and some adrenalin rush to share. Sandra Bullock and Keanu Reeves had not that much more to spark their love in Speed, did they, although it didn't last, as we learned later, so okay, probably was no true love just intense love.

 

I don't think that they handle true love for Emma and Hook or Snow and Charming any different, it's insta-love and karma like, despite that we get with CS things kinda in slow motion, and had Snow and Charming as flashback story. The basic idea is the same for all on the show. It's not about how long they know each other, are together, not about any development, true love is there instantly, but it might be a struggle to get together and to actually live it. If there is a problem I think it is in the DNA already of this show.

 

I feel sorry for Mulan. Once again (they should rename the show, it's often repetitive) just the wing woman. I don't fancy turning everyone with a spark of mutual understanding into love birds, not just if the people in question have same gender though, I think we overdue it with different gender way more. I certainly would love to see some more great friendships, buddies, men or women on screen. So in a way Mulan and Red being good buddies is something nice too, even though I sure like many had fallen in love with the idea of those two becoming a couple. But as said, I think true love is at the core of this show, so Mulan deserves to find hers as much as anyone else. But again, with this show, the pessimism (or is that realism?) prevails for me, so I don't have much hope it will happen. If they would, well, I would be back for that episode, but sure not going to keep watching tons of by now rather boring sameness to get there.

 

I don't share the huge disappointment many seem to feel, partially because I have no high expectation for this show left anyway and most certainly not anymore in questions of more diversity. I don't see Dorothy and Red just as merely a token, but neither do I see it as great progressive step to give any big applause for it. It was overdue, it was average writing. As often with this show I think they had even a good idea, but were once more not that good in execution. Actors, costumes, props, score make it an enjoyable treat, but that can't quite overcome the lack of depth on this show.

[Tiger]

So much wrong with this episode that I just sat there with a WTF look on my face. Thank you all in this thread to clarify why.

I read the term "hate-watching" earlier - I think that what I have been doing for a very long time - I will sacrifice for Robert Carlyle but even he can only do so much with this material.

I was really annoyed by a moment of sexual attraction and 2 nicknames between short-term acquaintances equaling TRUE LOVE. I was pretty happy with Ruby and Mulan finding and building a relationship. Mulan deserves a LOT more than to be stuck in the hero friend zone over and over.

It never occurred to me that Toto could give true love's kiss but it make SO much more sense! What great WoO fan service that would have been! And a great shout to the unconditional love of dogs. And a REAL twist instead of pasted on plot conveniences they portray as cool twists.

Someone mentioned that Snow could've taken Hood and Pistachio with her. Yes and how about taking Henry (who never should have been brought in the first place) and pregnant Belle who's baby is in immediate danger from Hades (although I don't know if they know about that). There wasn't any particular hurry so just stop and think a minute people!

I wouldn't put it past the writers to leave Milah and Gaston to suffer for all eternity but I hope you are all correct that Auntie Em's demise means that they will free all of the souls... but I still wouldn't put it past them to leave them all to suffer...

The episode would have been so much if Red had admitted to Snow that she liked Dorothy but had just met her and barely knew her, then they had Toto do the TLK.

[RadioGirl27]

I have tried to care about this episode, but, other than the short Captain Charming scene and Snowing saying goodbye, everything was so boring and lifeless.

 

Oh, and Belle is so stupid. I hope she stays sleeping until the last episode of the show.

[CheshireCat]

greekmom, on 18 Apr 2016 - 09:10 AM, said:

Can't Henry just write their names off the hero's stones, and back into Storybrook? Sheesh. The have the Author with them. 

 

He probably could but if he did, he would be abusing the author's power. The author is supposed to write the stories which happened, so to document the stories, he's not supposed to actually write/invent the stories. That's what Isaac did and it's why Henry broke the quill back in the S4 finale. So, the heroes have to find their own way out of this.

[Anakerie]

I have the most horrible mental image of Hades doing an infomercial on how well Auntie Em cleans floors. "Just look at that shine!"  I mean, 'Auntie Em' is a great name for a cleaning product. 

 

"Oh, Toto, not again!"

"YOU need Auntie Em!"

[Mari]

The episode would have been so much if Red had admitted to Snow that she liked Dorothy but had just met her and barely knew her, then they had Toto do the TLK.

I have to agree.

 

One of the problems I have with Red/Dorothy is that they just met.  Red's had lots of flirtations, off-screen romances, and almost-romances on this show, especially considering how very little plot attention she's had since season one.  

 

Most of those lasted only an episode or so, and had better chemistry and set-up than Dorothy/Red.  There was nothing in the episode that made Dorothy/Red seem more real and enduring than Red/GusGus, or Red/Whale, or Red/Augustocchio, or Red/. . .

 

There are characters that I'd have much less trouble believing the insta-love and done storyline, but Red isn't one of them.

Edited April 18, 2016 by Mari

[kili]

The episode would have been so much if Red had admitted to Snow that she liked Dorothy but had just met her and barely knew her, then they had Toto do the TLK.

 

I don't think that would have gone over any better. Fans who were hoping for representation would rightly be offended that hetro couples get to have TLK, but LGBT characters have to count on their pets for love - no kissing on prime time. The anti-LGBT fans would still be complaining about their ruined "family" show (because the family aspect wasn't ruined when kids were eaten, people were stabbed, dubious consent issues arose, Hook was covered in gore, etc.).

 

I would kind of like the Toto kiss because I'm a huge fan of dogs and that would be giving dog mad props, but I definitely would understand the complaints from the fans who want representation if Dorothy isn't a continuing character (so we aren't going to see the Red Slippers relationship blossom) and she has to rely on a dog kiss to live.  A&E have built up this episode/pairing all half-season, so once they decided to sleeping curse Dorothy, they had to give her a TL.

 

This episode would have been ten times better if the writers had invested some time in the relationship. If we can waste an entire episode with Merida bumbling around the woods, surely they could have spent an episode building the Dorothy/Red relationship. Count the screen minutes they had together - it probably doesn't reach 2. It was all people talking about the relationship while Dorothy spent much of the relationship fridged in another realm. Even when in the same realm, she was off in the tent while we learn that there might even be a relationship. 

 

Then, don't sleeping curse Dorothy so she doesn't need a kiss to live. You can keep that she is asleep, but they just need a potion antidote from Zelena (thus making sense of using the locator spell to find her instead of Dorothy). This would lead to more redemption for Zelena and the Red Slippers relationship doesn't go from 0 to 60 in 3 seconds with no fuel. Save the TLK for later after you build some ground-work.

 

Two other improvements: Find a better actress to be Dorothy and make her character at least somewhat likeable.

 

One other note

Dorothy: Kansas was so terrible and everybody but my Auntie Em was so obnoxious, I left my realm to come live with munchkins and spend my life being chased by an angry green witch

Red: I love you. Let me call you 'Kansas' as a pet name.

Me: What part of her backstory did you not understand?

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Once Upon A Time Goes Somewhere Under The Rainbow
The Underworld meets Oz when Dorothy meets Mulan and her little werewolf, too.

[Rhodri]

 

There wasn't any particular hurry so just stop and think a minute people!

Indeed!  Days and days in show time of not much happening, or Snowing worrying about Snowflake not being haunted properly,  or, worse, Belle whinging about Rumple being good.  Then, this very important opportunity to get some of them home is given almost no thought or discussion.

Are they just killing time until they can put everything they should have been working on all season into the season finale and save whatever resolution we hope for most into a cliffhanger?    Never mind, I know the answer.

[Shanna Marie]

I think the recapper must not be very familiar with this series, given the comment about how weird the idea of a father or an aunt giving a True Love's Kiss sounds, given that we've had two very pivotal mother/son TLKs. That's one thing this show has done well, expanding the idea of True Love to also be familial.

 

Maybe I'm remembering incorrectly (in spite of rewatching the previous episode right before this one), but did they actually show the spell to remove the names not working? I thought that they were interrupted by the storm before Emma really did the spell, and then they hid in the crypt, and then they found Red and apparently brought her to the loft. So when did they learn for sure that the spell that came to Emma in a dream really didn't work?

 

It's interesting that they used the name "David Nolan" on the tombstone, crossing out "Snow White." Does that mean that "Nolan" is David's real last name, even in the Enchanted Forest? I guess Regina was in a panic about incorporating him into the curse and wasn't very creative in giving him a cursed identity.

[Trepie]

I'm so done with this show. I love a lot of the actors and a couple of the relationships, but I've had it. I'd rather have no gay romances than a half-ass attempt to appease people. If there's a longer term plan for Mulan, then there are better opportunities to integrate LGBT characters than the one-off, shitty romance with no chemistry. But they'd have to actually care about doing a good job.

[coops]

It's interesting that they used the name "David Nolan" on the tombstone, crossing out "Snow White." Does that mean that "Nolan" is David's real last name, even in the Enchanted Forest? I guess Regina was in a panic about incorporating him into the curse and wasn't very creative in giving him a cursed identity.

This reminds of when Snow, David and Grumpy were discussing David's real name while on the run from the giant... when the show was still funny.

Hades annoyes me because. He. Talks. Like. This. All. The. Time. Stop it already! As for Dorothy and Red... well it was a good moment when they kissed but the whole thing felt rushed... it would have been far more loyal to the source material to have Toto do the TLK honors. But hey this show does great moments but can't plan long term, so I just enjoyed the moment for what it was. I would be really interested to know why they choose Dorothy instead of Mulan for a lesbian love interest though. Surely it had to be to do with Disney putting their foot down as others have suggested? Isn't Mulan part of the 'disney princesses' collection? Doubt disney wants anyone messing with that trademark where by contrast no one owns Dorothy Gale.

[tri4335]

This reminds of when Snow, David and Grumpy were discussing David's real name while on the run from the giant... when the show was still funny.

Hades annoyes me because. He. Talks. Like. This. All. The. Time. Stop it already! As for Dorothy and Red... well it was a good moment when they kissed but the whole thing felt rushed... it would have been far more loyal to the source material to have Toto do the TLK honors. But hey this show does great moments but can't plan long term, so I just enjoyed the moment for what it was. I would be really interested to know why they choose Dorothy instead of Mulan for a lesbian love interest though. Surely it had to be to do with Disney putting their foot down as others have suggested? Isn't Mulan part of the 'disney princesses' collection? Doubt disney wants anyone messing with that trademark where by contrast no one owns Dorothy Gale.

 

I find it so disturbing that Disney would have a bigger problem with a "lesbian" princess then they do with Snow White being an eggnapper or Belle being a murderer....that just blows my mind!  I mean really this show has no bearing on how any of their projects/products would be handled. It is not like they have to now sell Snow White with eggnaping accessories and Belle now comes with the River of Lost Souls so little Jane can push all the other "bad" toys into while Belle bangs Rumple.

[Rumsy4]

That's why I don't think it had anything to do with Disney. 

Edited April 18, 2016 by Rumsy4

[InsertWordHere]

That's why I don't think it had anything to do with Disney. 

Maybe if it was one of the older, more conservative stories like Sleeping Beauty or Cinderella, but the Disney version of Mulan was already pushing certain barriers, IMO. She was a female warrior who dressed as a man. It's been a while since I've seen the movie, but didn't Shang already show a bit of an interest in Mulan before he realized she was a woman? At any rate, he got interested pretty quickly when he realized she wasn't the scrawny male hero.

 

I just don't see Disney putting their foot down with this particular princess. 

[sharky]

I have tried to care about this episode, but, other than the short Captain Charming scene and Snowing saying goodbye, everything was so boring and lifeless.

 

Oh, and Belle is so stupid. I hope she stays sleeping until the last episode of the show.

Yep. After a day of mulling it over, this is exactly how I feel about this episode. Although isn't it interesting that the thing we loved most about the episode wasn't the action or flashbacks but the interactions between human beings, something that A&E keep trying to convince is not what the viewers want? Ridiculous. You know, even with the Ruby story, the episode would've been so much better without the flashback. I'm really starting to think they need to ditch them for next season. And of course, I know they won't.

 

As for Disney, the marketing in this show isn't blatant but it's there and it's controlled. Dorothy and Ruby are not Disney princesses and I bet they gave the show notes about which way to take it. All you have to do is look at the vitriol on the Facebook and EW posts about this. Disney knows how to control the message. They gave us an LGBT couple and took some heat for it, which they expected, by the heat never touched any of their princesses for a very good reason. The only thing that surprises me sometimes is how much leeway Disney gives this show. But then remember that they can rein this show in whenever they want -- think the Frozen arc.

[YaddaYadda]

Jamie Chung got cast in a new series. So maybe that's what it is. Maybe they didn't feel they could have access to her. 

 

Whatever...at this point, done is done.

 

One thing I realized and discussed with my friend last night is that Once can push the envelope as far as they want. I expected a TLK, sure, but the making out after that was a pleasant surprise.

 

So Once deciding not to do "love" scenes or being prudish when it comes to that has a lot more to do with them not wanting to do it as opposed to the whole "Oh it's at 8pm when the kiddies are watching." 

 

Now I know for sure that's a bullshit excuse because PLOT!!

Edited April 18, 2016 by YaddaYadda

[Shanna Marie]

That scene between David and Hook is a textbook example of how you can do conversations between characters. The scene was relevant to the plot and progressed the plot, since it set up Snow's ability to go be home with the baby. But while doing plot duty, it also gave us more insight into these characters and their relationship. We had the awkwardness of David complaining to Hook about how awful it was to be in the Underworld away from the baby and what they're missing out on and only later realizing that he was talking to the person who's the reason they went into the Underworld. We had Hook thanking him and making it clear he didn't ask for it or expect it. And we had David kind of sort of admitting that maybe he likes Hook a teeny little bit. It's probably the best scene with these two since the fireside chat between David and "Prince Charles" at the end of season 3. They managed to keep the tone at just the right point between sappy, sincere, and funny, with the guys going back and forth between being sincere and kidding (loved Hook's leaning in and "oh, really?" body language when David admitted that Hook had grown on him).

 

It didn't take more than maybe two minutes of screen time, but we got a lot out of it. Why can't they do that sort of thing more often with other characters? You can progress the plot and show characterization and relationship, all at the same time, without it eating a ton of screen time.

[Curio]

It didn't take more than maybe two minutes of screen time, but we got a lot out of it. Why can't they do that sort of thing more often with other characters? You can progress the plot and show characterization and relationship, all at the same time, without it eating a ton of screen time.

 

It took 1:26 to be precise. (And for those of you keeping track at home, that's a full minute longer than Emma got to put Hook's heart back in his chest at the end of 4A.)

Edited April 19, 2016 by Curio

[KingOfHearts]

After sleeping on it, I can say while I don't hate this episode, it's mostly pointless in a Merida way. It was like the show got bored with the Underworld so it decided to go on a tangent. At this point, the Nevengers are just sort of chilling there passively. (While Zelena mopes in her farmhouse.) Outside of the subplots like Snow leaving and Belle cursing herself, it was awkward to have them prop up this irrelevant story about Dorothy. In 5x09, the main characters weren't even there, so functioned solidly as a one-off. Here, the writing desperately attempts to connect what seems like two different shows. (Even more so than it did with Zelena and Arthur.) For me, I would have rather had Underbrooke not involved at all or Dorothy's peril relevant to the plot.

 

Zelena and the slippers were more like placeholders than actual links. There are other ways to contrive exits from the Underworld, and Zelena's involvement was so minimal that any antagonist would work.

Edited April 18, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Joanh23]

Even if I don't really buy into a TLK between Ruby and Dorothy, I was very happy to see Ruby back on the show.  Ruby and Snow's friendship is one of my favourite relationships on the show and I loved their scene together.  Also loved all the Charming family scenes, and of course the CaptainCharming scene was great.  I'm guessing there's going to be a TLK between Rumple and Belle (UGH), but I don't really know what they're trying to do with Zelena and Hades.  I'm assuming Hades isn't going to be on the show after S5, so is this just an opportunity to break Zelena's heart?  

 

This is yet another episode though where they didn't really move the plot at all - all they really did was set up why Belle and Snow won't be in the next few episodes. There's only 5 episodes left and they need to start moving things along!

[Delphi]

Why was Dorothy so hung up on the slippers anyways? She didn't want to go back home to Kansas, because everyone thought she was a lunatic and no one wanted Zelena in Oz except for Regina. Dorothy hates the witch and she wants to leave the land everyone wins.

As far as David or Snow leaving, it's a bit meh but on the other hand it's ridiculous that the entire towns police department, mayor and Snow White just left with no one in charge with all of Camelot there in the first place. So I'm good with someone going back to watch things.

Edited April 18, 2016 by Delphi

[Mathius]

This is yet another episode though where they didn't really move the plot at all - all they really did was set up why Belle and Snow won't be in the next few episodes. There's only 5 episodes left and they need to start moving things along!

 

"Our Decay", "Her Handsome Hero" and "Ruby Slippers" have all been detours with very little progression (especially "Her Handsome Hero"...this episode just showed how pointless that was, we did not need the Gaston incident to get Belle distrustful of relying on Rumple for help, his entire confession in "Our Decay" alone would have been enough to do that!).

 

Thankfully, next episode should finally get things moving again.

Edited April 18, 2016 by Mathius

[iMonrey]

I know the premise of this show is to take well-known fairy tales and fables and put a unique spin on them, but for some reason I have a harder time accepting it when they do that with the Oz characters. Probably because most of the fairy tales this show is based on - Snow White, Cinderella, Peter Pan, etc. - are all one-and-done fables, whereas Oz is a long-term story. L. Frank Baum wrote 13 sequels to The Wonderful Wizard of Oz and 26 more were published after his death. So when they screw around with Oz and the Oz characters it's more akin to screwing around with the Harry Potter books, or the Star Trek universe. It's a step too far for me.

 

That said, I do find myself somewhat warming up to Zelena, mostly thanks to Rebecca Mader, so I'm kind of hoping the fact that she handed over the Silver Shoes to Regina is a sign that she's taking their conversation to heart and just maybe playing Hades. 

 

Overall I still feel like the Underworld premise does not lend itself well to this show. Unlike previous excursions to mythical lands there's a stronger need for urgency to get the hell out of there and it seems like the Charmings and Co. have done little besides sit around in their loft apartment twiddling their thumbs. 

[DeLurker]

Zelena was less scenery gnawing this time and I liked her so much better.

 

Glad to see Ruby back, but TLK with Dorothy was odd.  Is Ruby back?  Always liked her, but if she comes attached to Dorothy, I'll pass.

[Bishop]

I'll start with the bad first:  The Red/Dorothy thing was horrible.  For one thing, their relationship was invented in a single episode.  TLK needs to be earned over the course of episodes and years, not in a single episode.  I feel like the writers checked off a bucket list "Lesbian relationship for Disney . . . check."  It was utterly boring and devoid of emotion for me.  Mulan had more of the feel of being attracted to Aurora, which is where I thought this storyline might be going, but Red and Dorothy?  Dorothy??!!  Ugh, please.  I hope we don't have any more episodes with side characters that we hardly ever see just because.  It's a waste of screen time and my time, frankly.

 

Now for the good:

 

Loved the bromance between Charming and Hook.  As much as I appreciate the female power on OUAT, it's nice to see the guys have some time in scenes together.  I liked David's genuine frustration that he was able to leave the Underworld while his wife could not.  I thought it was realistic that he felt it should be Snow going to take care of their child since I can see him wanting to protect his family.  I liked how he resented being stuck there, and then feeling bad for saying it out loud in front of Killian who then was able to finally thank David for coming after him.  At first I was mad when David said he did it only for Emma, because I felt the relationship between David and Killian had progressed over the last two years, and so when David did finally admit that Killian had grown on him - which was the closest thing Hook was going to get as an approval from David - I was happy.  I was also genuinely happy and surprised when it was David staying behind and not Snow.  I need to see more story regarding David at this point.  I'm guessing that Killian figured out that he could change the headstones because of the enchantment by Hades, then posed that scenario to David, and David said "Do it."  Loved all of it.

 

I like that Belle felt guilty for her actions last week and didn't continue moving closer to the darkness.  She even admitted that her soul had been blackened (or corrupted), can't remember which.  I also liked that Rumple also has no sympathy or remorse for his actions or hers.  He is now owning his actions and has no desire to give up his power or apologize it.  It's just refreshing to see people basically admitting who they are and not being sorry about it all the time.

 

Zelena is starting to grow on me, but I'm torn if I want her to turn good because we need villains.  That being said, I do find myself being a bit sympathetic to her and hoping that she gets a happy ending.  This leaves me with my final thought for the episode:  I LOVE Hades.  He is a true villain.  Cruella, Malificent, Cora, etc., are not villains like Hades.  They are more on the cartoonish side whereas Hades is REALLY a scary guy.  His character was the first on OUAT to torture another character and delight in said character's pain.  Hades is not afraid of anyone, not Emma, not Regina, not Zelena - no one.  When he makes a threat, it feels genuine - and dangerous.  I think Gregg is doing a great job, and I hope Hades sticks around, and I hope that the writers don't soften him either.  We need a villain like him who is truly a bad and evil person.  It ups the ante.

Edited April 18, 2016 by Bishop

[toodles]

This show.  I thought Toto was her true love.  A little doggie kiss would have worked too.

[YaddaYadda]

I like that Belle felt guilty for her actions last week and didn't continue moving closer to the darkness.

 

But she also said she wouldn't feel as bad if she had managed to save her kid, which I'm not sure how to feel about if I'm being perfectly honest.

[Bishop]

I enjoyed the Killian/David scenes. Also, Hades didn't enchant the hand, he gave him a chisel. The writers can't even keep track of what they wrote 6 episodes ago.

I don't think it's about the hook or the chisel.  Hades basically gave Kilian the ability/power to carve names onto the headstones by whatever means necessary and simply felt the chisel was the easiest way to do it.  Hades never said "Here is an enchanted chisel," only that Killian was the person who had to put the names on the headstones.  I don't think HOW he was going to do it was ever mentioned.  So I'm okay with the final outcome.

Edited April 18, 2016 by Bishop

[Rumsy4]

I don't think it's about the hook or the chisel.  Hades basically gave Kilian the ability/power to carve names onto the headstones by whatever means necessary and simply felt the chisel was the easiest way to do it.  Hades never said "Here is an enchanted chisel," only that Killian was the person who had to put the names on the headstones.  I don't think HOW he was going to do it was ever mentioned.  So I'm okay with the final outcome.

 

I realized what Hook said in the episode was that Hades enchanted his hand to carve on the headstones. So, the tool was not going to matter.