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S05.E18: Ruby Slippers


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I guess I just laughed a bit too much at the horrible carving because in 2x22 (?) Hook carved that beautiful P and S (with serifs!!) when teaching Baelfire how to sail and when Bae left he crossed them out with such precise straight lines?

Wood/horizontal vs stone/vertical but still....

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I like that Belle felt guilty for her actions last week and didn't continue moving closer to the darkness.

 

Instead, she blamed Rumpel for "making" her do something she regrets and then abdicated all responsibility for anything that happens in the future by putting herself under the curse. She even explicitly told Rumpel to "do whatever it takes" to get her back to her father so that she could wake up. There's no limit to what she would accept as long as it fixes her problems. She's asleep and can't nix any of his less than stellar ideas, so she's in the clear. I understand wanting to protect your child, but the Dark One isn't the type that would take a harder route to avoid collateral damage. He'll cut down anyone in his way. Belle knows that and told him to do whatever he needed to anyway.

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Wood/horizontal vs stone/vertical but still....

 

Seriously, no. They're not even close to the same. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohs_scale_of_mineral_hardness

 

Ice (H 1.5), fingernail (H 2), or a penny (copper, H 3) can scratch wood. Titanium (H 6) is barely going to start to scratch granite (feldspar, H 6, and quartz, H 7), which is was that, and many, headstones are made of.

 

The handwriting was not laughable. What was laughable was that they thought he could make any sort of carving with just a metal hook.

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Ice (H 1.5), fingernail (H 2), or a penny (copper, H 3) can scratch wood. Titanium (H 6) is barely going to start to scratch granite (feldspar, H 6, and quartz, H 7), which is was that, and many, headstones are made of.

 

 

The show never lets physics or any science get in the way of the story/props before, so it was just a little jarring that they went for reality this time around.

 

Just in this episode, we had Zelena grousing about not getting morning sickness because Dark Swan accelerated her pregnancy while Belle did get to experience the joy of barfing. They have pregnant actresses on the set who probably could loan the writer's a copy of "What to Expect when you are Expecting". Morning sickness typically starts at 6 weeks and ends around 14 weeks. But, anything can happen. Some women never throw up and some throw up for 9 months. Still why have the woman who made it to at least 3 months pregnant complain that she missed out on morning sickness due to pregnancy acceleration to the woman who is experiencing it 3 days into her pregnancy? Belle is the unusual case for getting it that early and Zelena missing out on morning sickness was because she just didn't have it when a typical person would. Dark Swan had nothing to do with it. 

 

And trust Zelena to be jealous of somebody else getting to throw up. 

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Two mentions of what that evil Dark Swan did in this episode.

 

I'm new to PVR's, but for some reason, it started taping 4-5 minutes late last night, so the first scene I saw was halfway through Zelena and Hades' conversation in the farmhouse.  I just went back to watch the first bit.  Didn't miss much, I suppose.  Your dog is "running through juniper fields into a valley of pines"?  Wow, Toto runs fast.  

 

What's with the trope of people falling in love with people who are seemingly discriminating against them.  I know it's not what Dorothy meant but she looked as if she was sickened by Red being half wolf several times.  How is it Red's fault that the dog ran off... try a leash next time.  I don't see how Dorothy wins friends and gains the love of the people by pointing a crossbow at anyone Toto barks at.

 

Where does this flashback fit in with the Dorothy/Scarecrow one?

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Where does this flashback fit in with the Dorothy/Scarecrow one?

 

Scarecrow/Dorothy from Our Decay happens before the flashbacks from Ruby Slippers.

 

In 5x16, Hades and Zelena meet, and in 5x18, Zelena arrives in Oz after she's been banished there by Regina in 5x11. 

 

So this flashback is basically set during 5x11/5x12 at the most. I am surprised Zelena didn't get back the second she got her hands on the slippers though. 

Edited by YaddaYadda
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I didn't dislike Dorothy as much as I thought I would go into this ep. I didn't find her as aggressively...aggressive as Merida. At least she didn't try to brain anyone with a rock. Hugely disappointed for Mulan, though I was glad to see that Snow was happy for Ruby.

Loved the Captain Charming scene. This, haters, is just one of the reasons Hook's my guy. A simple, heartfelt declaration of gratitude - no snark, no name-calling, no bullshit.

Still waiting for some quality CaptainCobra time. Or has that been relegated to Offscreenville too? Damn!

ETA: Have I mentioned lately how much I hate Regina? She just came across as overly sanctimonious in her scene with Zelena.

Edited by Dianthus
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Watched the episode. It was...okay.

I thought going by everyone else's comments, that it was going to be worse.

Ruby/Dorothy: I'm more frustrated about poor Mulan than anything about these two. Yeah, they were rushed, but that fits in with 90% of the other couples presented on this show. All it took for Ariel and Eric was one dance, same basically with Cinderella and her man. At least Dorothy was less irritating than Merida.

Could A&E have done a lot better, though? Yes.

Lol @Belle. Good luck getting woken up, girl.

Now was this a different needle than the one Zelena snatched from Regina, or was it never specified? I don't think it looked like it, but I could be wrong.

Yay for Snow/Red friendship.

still liking Zelena, but Regina's constant speeches to her are getting a little annoying at this point. Just a week ago you tossed her into a tornado. :/

Dang, Hades. Poor Auntie Em.

Captain Charming was the best part of this episode.

How many people can tag along with those slippers? The wearer plus one guest? Two guests? Why not take them all?

I'm about 75-25 on Zelena possibly playing Hades.

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The show never lets physics or any science get in the way of the story/props before, so it was just a little jarring that they went for reality this time around.

 

They still didn't go for reality; that was part of my point. People comment on handwriting when it couldn't have been done at all in the first place in the real world, messy writing or not. Believe me, I've suspended any expectation of scientific reality on the show. I just thought I'd lend a little real science to the discussion, given that learning something new is never a bad thing. I'll go take my science back to the real world now.

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I just wish they had had Red kiss Dorothy, all caught up in the True Love hype but...nothing. Not a flicker of an eyelash, nothing. Then Toto runs over, licks Dorothy's face and poof, she's awake. Then they could have planted a seed for Dorothy and Red to couple without us having to roll our eyes at two people who barely met being true loves.

 

I don't get the huge need for TLK from every couple. TLK is only to break a spell. They could have had a million other ways to hook up Dorothy and Red or preferably Mulan and Red since those two actually have a relationship.

 

In non contrived lesbian storylines, I definitely got the impression Zelena was playing along with Hades as a possible long con. She looked like she really wanted to stop him from dumping Auntie Em into the water and she didn't look all that happy about it until he said it was to make her happy, then her expression kind of changed like "okay, so this is how he wants to play it". I think it's a good idea. Keeps her ambiguous, gives wiggle room if they decide to keep her a villain but also shows an attempt by her at redemption. I'm finally looking forward to seeing where this goes.

 

I also don't get why Robin is hanging out in the woods with Pistachio instead of hightailing it the hell out of Underbrooke. Am I right in remembering that Hades can't get to people in Overbrooke? So if you're trying to protect the baby, wouldn't your first plan of action be to find a way to get it to the place where your enemy can't actually reach it? Oh, wait, I forgot we are talking about the Idiot Brigade here where two members abandoned their infant child to go on a quest with their grown ass daughter who has proven she can more than take care of herself. I mean, nice sentiment and all, but you've got a defenseless child that you basically orphaned and are now trying to haunt. Is Jiminy still around because that kid's gonna need some major therapy? Actually, what did happen to him? I really can't recall what happened to half the original characters but I sure do miss them.

 

I do love Cruella though. She can stay as stylish and quotable mayor of Underbrooke.

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People comment on handwriting when it couldn't have been done at all in the first place in the real world, messy writing or not.

They're not in the real world. They're in the Underworld. We don't know what the tombstones are made of there, and Hook was enchanted to be able to mark on them, so it's possible that a chisel and special tools wouldn't have made a mark, but Hook could have marked them with a fingernail.

 

As for the handwriting, I didn't recall the compass he sketched for Bae to be all that nice. Even if it was, he was showing off to Bae with a flourish, while he was just trying to get something done with the tombstone.

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Li Shang was my favorite love Disney love interest.  So disappointed we won't see him on the show.  Dorothy was very unlikeable.  Red I have always liked but her acting felt off to me in this episode.  The only time I liked Red was with Snow.  In the past Red had chemistry with everyone David, Emma, Snow and Dr. Whale.  Strange that Red and Dorothy had zero chemistry. 

 

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The only time I liked Red was with Snow. In the past Red had chemistry with everyone David, Emma, Snow and Dr. Whale. Strange that Red and Dorothy had zero chemistry.

Red also had chemistry with Belle in the episode where she faked out kissing her to lock her in the library. Don't remember the name, maybe Child of the Moon? Anyway, it was the one where Gus-Gus got turned into Gus

Gus.

Yes, I'm terrible.

Edited by DigitalCount
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Someone mentioned that Snow could've taken Hood and Pistachio with her.  Yes and how about taking Henry (who never should have been brought in the first place) and pregnant Belle who's baby is in immediate danger from Hades (although I don't know if they know about that).   There wasn't any particular hurry so just stop and think a minute people!

 

That's a good point.  So far, the Magic Slippers have been the only way out, and they don't know if there's another.  Could they have just concentrated on how to get the names off the tombstones and then leave together with the Magic Slippers?  I'm sorry but it's not like Dorothy was going anywhere.  They also need to solve the "problem" of Hook, who's technically dead right now. 

 

Hmm... how about this... when Emma and Co. are ready to leave, they send a haunting message to Snow (provided they can fix one of the phones).  Then, Snow will use a locator spell using an item owned by any of them, and come back to the Underworld wearing the Silver Slippers.  They link hands and then everyone can take Flight White Slippers.  

Edited by Camera One
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I forgot we are talking about the Idiot Brigade here where two members abandoned their infant child to go on a quest with their grown ass daughter who has proven she can more than take care of herself. I mean, nice sentiment and all, but you've got a defenseless child that you basically orphaned and are now trying to haunt. Is Jiminy still around because that kid's gonna need some major therapy?

 

I'm still wondering why Robin wasn't haunting Roland. Snowflake doesn't miss his parents. He's too young. Most of Snowing's issues were them projecting Emma's entire childhood onto a two week vacation away from their months old baby who is being well taken care of by people who love him. Poor Roland is five years old and would be missing his daddy and might like a phone call from the Underworld.

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I'm still wondering why Robin wasn't haunting Roland.

 

I guess he took a page out of Snow and Charming's book whereby you forget your firstborn as soon as you have a new baby, and only remember them at sporadic intervals.

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Episode description: In flashbacks, Ruby and Mulan zzzzz..........

 

Seriously, I only just motivated myself to watch this and it's only because I had a crap day at work and wanted something so completely mindless I didn't have to think.

 

Do not care about Oz. Do not care about Dorothy. The point of the films (although I believe not the book) was that she was hallucinating or dreaming due to head trauma. And, frankly, unless this was going to end with Emma waking up and going, "That was a weird dream" and we realised that Zelena was a figment of her imagination, then I was never going to enjoy this episode. Oz was a cardboard cutout of a fantasy universe for a reason. One that looked strangely like the Enchanted Forest Woods for some reason.

 

EDITED to add - another insta-true love? Ergh.

Edited by AudienceofOne
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I sometimes wonder if a part of the audience is so built up expecting Swan Queen that no other LGBT romance would appease them anyway, so the writers just kind of bullshitted their way through this.

Swan Queen will never happen, they had to give the romance to someone, and I don't think it's so much a Disney issue as its partial incompetent writers and actress availability or issue. Maybe Ory and Chung hate each other and begged out of it, who knows.

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They're not in the real world. They're in the Underworld. We don't know what the tombstones are made of there, and Hook was enchanted to be able to mark on them, so it's possible that a chisel and special tools wouldn't have made a mark, but Hook could have marked them with a fingernail..

 

Yes, I realize this. But some folks seemed to imply that they thought carving wood and rock would be roughly equivalent in the real world. I merely attempted to educate them about the fact that it is not, without insinuating anything about the Underworld and/or magical 'rules'.

 

If someone here actually, truly, really thought that physics allowed for people to transport themselves via purple smoke poofs or magic shoes in the real world, I would attempt to set them straight on that as well.

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I sometimes wonder if a part of the audience is so built up expecting Swan Queen that no other LGBT romance would appease them anyway, so the writers just kind of bullshitted their way through this.

 

Posts on Tumblr include people who think this was a 'testing the waters' storyline to set up Regina/Emma, and people who are angry that they've chosen to do another same-sex pairing rather than that one. I don't think this storyline pleased anyone really.

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I sometimes wonder if a part of the audience is so built up expecting Swan Queen that no other LGBT romance would appease them anyway, so the writers just kind of bullshitted their way through this.

Swan Queen will never happen, they had to give the romance to someone, and I don't think it's so much a Disney issue as its partial incompetent writers and actress availability or issue. Maybe Ory and Chung hate each other and begged out of it, who knows.

 

There are some Swan Queen shippers who won't be happy with anything less, but I don't think that's the bulk of people who are upset about how this turned out.  A lot of people were anticipating Red Warrior, which would avoid the "special episode" by involving characters who have a long term investment in the show even if they aren't regulars.   A&E basically lied to viewers to get people to stop criticizing and keep watching.  Whether it was their decision, ABC's, or Disney's, they did have control over how they talked about it and they promised something they didn't deliver and that's bound to anger people.

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I sometimes wonder if a part of the audience is so built up expecting Swan Queen that no other LGBT romance would appease them anyway, so the writers just kind of bullshitted their way through this.

 

It's not just SQers who have been wanting to see an LGBT romance on the Show. The Red/Dorothy romance was so poorly built up that it satisfied no one. I don't think any hetero romance on the show was this fast. Yeah--Hades fell in love with Zelena over a bike ride. But they did not immediately become a couple. There was nothing organic about Red/Dorothy. I will credit the writers for giving them a full-on make out and not cutting away. So, there's that.

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It's not just SQers who have been wanting to see an LGBT romance on the Show. The Red/Dorothy romance was so poorly built up that it satisfied no one. I don't think any hetero romance on the show was this fast. Yeah--Hades fell in love with Zelena over a bike ride. But they did not immediately become a couple. There was nothing organic about Red/Dorothy. I will credit the writers for giving them a full-on make out and not cutting away. So, there's that.

 

On TVLine there are a bunch of conservative Christians crying and rending their garments about how a disgusting lesbian relationship has ruined their family show.  It almost makes me like the show more out of spite. But the truth is, it was poorly written and thrown together. I think some of the straight pairings have been given short shrift (especially in the beginning when they were throwing every couple in the universe together for their happy ending), but they don't have the burden of being the only representation of straight relationships.

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On TVLine there are a bunch of conservative Christians crying and rending their garments about how a disgusting lesbian relationship has ruined their family show.

 

I wonder what show they've been watching, because Once is definitely not family hour. How much blood have we seen this season alone?

 

And we have a rape baby on our hands. How does that make it a family show? 

 

Is it because there are no love/sex scenes that it's considered a family show?

 

The ship leaves me extremely meh, but I was really impressed that the show didn't stop at the TLK, and pushed further than that. it was fucking great, and those jerks leaving disgusting comments can go and jump off a cliff. 

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Good God...this show is a trainwreck of bad writing interuppted with occasional creativity and some interesting storyline "ideas," (that just remain ideas.)  Yes, Dorothy and Red do not have any chemistry at all, and the relationship came out of nowhere. I like that Mulan and Red can be friends without any sex, but at least, having them off screen we could surmise that they did indeed have some kind of relationship built up. They have totally made TLK a cheap device that anybody can lay on anyone...at least Snow and Charms....(whom I am not a big fan of) actually ran through some shit before they did that...they had an actual relationship. What bugs me is that cheapen not just that one, but the big S1 moment of Emma kissing Henry and breaking the curse. Both times Charms and Emma were unaware that it would work and upset and it came out of a "pure" moment. For me, just thinking "Oh well, I can just give so and so a kiss an it will work" betrays that...it should come out of heightened emotion, not just an everyday solution for the latest curse.

 

The only saving grace from the whole thing was that I did not concentrate so much on the show but laughing to myself what the "family values," crowd would say about all of this....(cause Red did not just peck Dot, she laid one on her...) which is not the point. The Red actress is not so great in the acting department but she is hellahot they should have gotten someone equally hot...and yea, I did not like that one of the strongest purest characters in fiction was turned into a cranky, reactionary sourpuss (so of course she they make her a lesbian.)  and in the grand tradition of Once, totally helpless and ineffectual. For once can a "hero" actually do something effective, on their own, without help from magic? I am so sick of this show and the hero crap they continually shovel out but they make their heroes ineffectual idiots...( in this episode alone Charms and Hook and the telephone..."Hey stop that I SAY" and Cruella and the henchmen just laughing them off like "Go play someone else useless pretty boys!) They seem to think arming a characterw with a boy and arrow and have them traipsing about the forest makes them "heroes"  and that is that.  Can someone explain to me how Mulan and Red got to Oz? And why are they looking for her pack there and not in the other CGI-ville?

 

One can only hope that Em and company will be released from the pool of darkness but this show for a show supposedly base on "hope," is so unconcerned with minor characters horrible fates.... Owen's dad was murdered by Regina.. (which she gloated about but that was okay cause Owen kidnapped that dumb kid of hers..) and then Owen, a character who deserved some kind of compassion, is killed in bad CGI Neverland.. Glinda, is stuck in some winter purgatroy...(cause she is light magic and can't be around to outmagic the bad guys...) I am sure I am missing several. Hope is reserved for the main cast I guess.

 

The show has gone from good, cant miss, to craptastic can't miss to just plain crap.

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I wonder what show they've been watching, because Once is definitely not family hour. How much blood have we seen this season alone?

 

And we have a rape baby on our hands. How does that make it a family show? 

 

Is it because there are no love/sex scenes that it's considered a family show?

 

The ship leaves me extremely meh, but I was really impressed that the show didn't stop at the TLK, and pushed further than that. it was fucking great, and those jerks leaving disgusting comments can go and jump off a cliff. 

Yeah, no one said they are rational!  I don't want to get way off topic for this board, but I think their real fear is that their kids will see that it's ok, and they will turn out to be gay (these are the kind of people who still think it's a behavior choice, not an orientation).  I'm also glad they didn't leave it as an unreturned kiss.  That would have pissed me off even more!  The kiss itself was great. 

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For me the Ruby/Dorothy story was simply a fluffy, fairy tale. Viewers complain all the time about missing the fairy tale stuff. Well, they got one! And if it's between two women, then so what? It didn't enrage me, nor make me swoon, even though I appreciated their long kiss at the end. I was what it was. True, it happened quickly, but no quicker than most Disney romances.

 

I think the writers accomplished exactly what they meant to do.

 

And if Dorothy's a horrible, unlikable person, then so am I. She was grumpy at first, but she wasn't the worst ever.

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On TVLine there are a bunch of conservative Christians crying and rending their garments about how a disgusting lesbian relationship has ruined their family show.  It almost makes me like the show more out of spite. But the truth is, it was poorly written and thrown together. I think some of the straight pairings have been given short shrift (especially in the beginning when they were throwing every couple in the universe together for their happy ending), but they don't have the burden of being the only representation of straight relationships.

As I said, the only thing I like about Red and Dot were that the bible thumpers were going to pitch a fit...but instead of watching to enjoy a bunch of freaks discomfort, I would have like to enjoy the story itself.

 

But one thing I liked about Once is that is how un sterotypically family friendly this show is...(boring, bland, unoffensive.) Murders, black magic, nasty moms, shiftless fathers...extra marital  cursed induced affairs .. sex in crypts, sex with people who arent really your spouse but who look like them becuase of magic...shrinking your father down to fit in a box and them killing him...the sexual innuendo Hook got away with before he fell in LURVE...implying killings of infants to enact a time travel spell, all of those things I like as Once does get to be subervisive because its about fairy tale characters and it plays lip service to being a family show.

 

I am not really into how mean this show can be sometimes...(minor characters killed off without a thought or regret) but I got to admit, I was even taken back by the umph Red put into that kiss and that they got away with it. Good work show!

Edited by Mitch
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We do have a pretty messed up relationship between sex and violence in our culture. I read an EW article on the topic some time ago, dealing with the way violent movies are rated versus movies with more sexual content. This is probably getting to be a bit OT for this thread, tho'.

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As soon as Red mentioned Toto being more than just Dorothy's dog, I was convinced that we would learn that Zelena had cursed Dorothy's boyfriend to live in Toto's body or some other such nonsense.

 

Damn, I'm impressed. I am one of those lame people who will keep watching until the bitter end. It took me FOREVER to finally quit watching Bones and Castle (my Jossverse universe loyalty can be a burden sometimes - now that I don't watch those two shows anymore, I have no regrets). But I have to admit that there were so many bone-headed things in this episode that I found myself thinking, "Why am I still watching this damn show?"

 

First I loathed that Red was Dorothy's TLK. Can we please stop encouraging the stupid idea that you can instantly fall in love with someone who you don't know at all? And if you're going to insist that two people who have known each other for all of, like, four hours are full on True Love, can you at least make sure that one of them doesn't seem like an angry jerk when they meet? Stop perpetuating the myth that being a standoffish jerk is what makes hot strangers fall in love with you.

 

I guess this gives new meaning to the whole "Do you know Dorothy?" thing. I'm sure the writers thought they were being oh so clever.

 

Ha, I was thinking the same thing too. He finished "writing" and then ran downstairs yelling, "Grandpa! You're going to want to see this!" and whips out a picture of two chicks kissing. I was like dude, come on, show.

 

I was totally thinking Toto was part of Ruby's pack. but they did something freaky. Like I didn't think he was "just the dog". 

I am with you. it takes a lot for me to quit a show. I've stopped with Castle too (same reason - Joss Whedon-verse), but I ditched Scandal finally this season, (i'm refuse to watch anything Shonda touches now. except Greys. (sigh)). this show is teetering on the edge. 

 

 

I would love a not angry/jerky response when first meeting someone. Dorothy is cranky. . And what bugs me is - sure. maybe it's Love At First Sight - but what about Dorothy specifically, would make Ruby fall insta-love with her? Like she didn't smile, she didn't look happy, she was snappy. she gave Ruby a side-eye when she transformed. Did Dorothy have a change of heart when she stepped into the house?

 

 

also: Dorothy. You wouldn't have had to deal with Zelena... if you had you know. given the shoes. 

(not lying. i was startled for a moment that they were silver, then i remember that only Warner Brothers WoZ can have Ruby Slippers (literally) and that in the original it was silver). 

 

 

I've never been a fan of let's just put a LGBT couple on the show so we can say we did it and stop the comments. To me it becomes a token, a pacifier, etc. And I don't think that the writers of this show handle issues related to real world issues very well. Therefore, I've been concerned at how they could handle an LGBT romance without it being a cliche. I must thank the writers now for not proving me wrong.

 

That's pretty much how it is for me. I'm the same way with PoC etc. Like if it's done properly, and well - i'm all for it, but generally speaking it's done as a "here, we did it, shut up about it now.." and then it's like what's the point. I'd rather it not be done at all, than be done hapharzardly, or stupidly. 

 

 

The issue is that Adam & Eddy gabbed too much in interviews before this episode about how the new couple would have a similar love story in the vein of Emma/Hook and Snow/Charming. When you build your audience up to make comparisons to the best slow-burning or long-running True Love couples on the show, fans are automatically going to assume (rightly) that the writers have been spending multiple episodes building up to the LGBT reveal. Which is why many fans thought they would pair Mulan and Ruby because, you know, they actually spent multiple episodes together before this.

 

 

I'm not going to lie...but I would love it if Belle remained in a sleep coma until the series finale when Rumple can finally True Love Kiss™ her. Until then, I want Rumple to remain a deliciously awesome asshole who doesn't have to worry about Belle dragging him down.

 

the thing is - for me: I still don't even buy Hook + Emma. But i know with this - it's totally a YMMV. but i am not seeing it at all (or even if I was about to -what happened in 5A should have caused a rift - that shouldn't have been fixed yet - just imo)...

 

but to your second point - I am with you. Belle can stay asleep forever for all I care, until Rumple's like... sure. 

but this is what is really, confusing me. So did they both acknowledge then that Rumple and Belle aren't really in True Love? Like. i know what they said in.. Skin Deep? the other episode when belle tried to kiss Rumple) - but are they officially stating that Rumple loves Belle, but his True Love is Power? 

As much as I am appreciative that they are expanding on what TLK can be (ie: Family).. that's just. changing the rules when you've played the game. I don't think i'd like it. and Belle is such a selfish cow..ugh. "well do whatever you need to do to free our baby - but i'm gonna go to sleep so i don't blacken my soul while i'm okay with you doing dirty work, bye!"

  • Love 1
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I can't figure out why I still watch this show. With the the exception of zelena, everyone just delivers their lines. The is no real connection. It's all so forced and not the least bit believable. Please stop saying hero. Please. It's so childish. I wanna be a hero. You can still be a hero. It's like saying we should start a band. We're gonna be big rock stars some day. This half season is terrible. We're gonna go to the underworld. Oh it's just storybrooke with red tint and weird half missle looking vents everywhere that looks like an old duke nookem video game. It really seems like the writers show up, rearrange stories that have already been done, change some names, throw the words hero and happy ending and true loves kiss in there and the. Take a long lunch. I almost feel like it's a running gag. Like they're laughing at us saying can you believe they're still watching this crap? The first few seasons were fun. This is garbage.

  • Love 4
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On that note, I liked that we actually got to see Belle feeling remorseful for what she did to Gaston, and rightfully declare Rumple as a toxic influence on her.  Keep that attitude up, Belle, and I might like you again!

 

I think someone else already mentioned this, but Belle was only remorseful that her actions didn't actually save her baby.  I got the distinct impression that if pushing Gaston into the bay would have resulted in Hades tearing up the contract, Belle would have been like, "Whew!  Well, glad that's over.  Let's go home, Rumple!"

 

I know you don't mean it that way but Toto could have been a Dog Prince or Princess. 

I think it is glaring that their only POC Disney Princess (besides the one-off Rapunzel) keeps getting pushed aside.

 

Mulan is not the only POC Disney princess - There's Jasmine.  Unless you mean on OUAT.  Since they haven't had Jasmine on the show, then never mind...

 

I also was hoping for a TLK from Toto.  That would have been amazing!  And original!  

 

Did not like Red and Dorothy at all.  The cutesy nicknames made me gag.  Wolfie?  Really?  And Kansas?  I guess Red watched Zombieland back in Storybrooke too.

 

Best part of the ep was Killian and David's conversation.  Loved that Killian apologized sincerely.  

 

I don't even remember the rest of the episode.  And I don't want to.

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I can't figure out why I still watch this show. With the the exception of zelena, everyone just delivers their lines. The is no real connection. It's all so forced and not the least bit believable. Please stop saying hero. Please. It's so childish. I wanna be a hero. You can still be a hero. It's like saying we should start a band. We're gonna be big rock stars some day. This half season is terrible. We're gonna go to the underworld. Oh it's just storybrooke with red tint and weird half missle looking vents everywhere that looks like an old duke nookem video game. It really seems like the writers show up, rearrange stories that have already been done, change some names, throw the words hero and happy ending and true loves kiss in there and the. Take a long lunch. I almost feel like it's a running gag. Like they're laughing at us saying can you believe they're still watching this crap? The first few seasons were fun. This is garbage.

 

Yeah, only Jane Espensen still manages to throw out some good entertainment and I think that's because she can put out a decent story in her sleep.  For some reason, the writers of OUAT have decided to write a plot-driven show with characters and story designed for a more character-driven approach.   The only thing saving it right now are some actors who are clearly, somehow, having a great time anyway.

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With the the exception of zelena, everyone just delivers their lines.

Unpopular opinion: Right now Mader is the only cast member really giving it their all. Everyone else is phoning it in.

Edited by KingOfHearts
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Completely unpopular, but I'm so not down with the whole Toto giving Dorothy a TLK, like at all. I know that animals are loving, and all, but I would have had a moment of absolute table flipping because of the title of the episode alone.

 

If they had built the story as Toto being Dorothy's cursed girlfriend, then sure. Otherwise, no.

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Mulan is not the only POC Disney princess - There's Jasmine

 

Is Mulan a Disney Princess? Where does she get the title from? Her parents clearly aren't royalty and neither is Shang. Or is she just a Princess because she's a female protagonist in a Disney movie? How come Maid Marian doesn't get to be a princess too? (she's Foxy!).  How about Alice? Confused.

 

Tiana is a POC Disney Princess through marriage. That's how she can change her husband back into a Prince (in the show's lore, only a kiss from a Princess can break the spell and turn him back from a frog into a Prince - it was a wonderful twist). Jasmine is a Princess by birth.

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Every week I watch the show and think AWESOME. They are going to love this at Previously but then I find I'm the only one enthused. This was the first time I found myself fiddling with my phone. 

Things I like
Snow is still getting to be Snow. More passionate about everything. I loved her little eye wipe at the TLK.
Killian and Charming as everyone has said.
Most of the scene at the cemetery with the name change reveal. 
Regina's adorable rain hat

Dorothy's costume
That Mulan was supportive and not bitchy about Red's confession. 

Didn't like
You all have listed it. Just let Belle go dark not to sleep. 
The mehness of the Red and Dorothy build up though it is a Fairy Tale trope to have it happen fast. 

I have a theory about who is going to wake Belle up. Grumpy. It could be Grumpy. 

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I have a theory about who is going to wake Belle up. Grumpy. It could be Grumpy.

 

He's genuinely her friend and has been that for a long time. I think he's her best friend even though they don't show them tons together, but their friendship does exist. I'm down with that.

 

Or she'll make him her baby's Godfather.

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I have a theory about who is going to wake Belle up. Grumpy. It could be Grumpy. 

 

That would actually be kind of awesome. I mean, Beauty and the Beast is all about looking past exterior appearances right? I'd ship it.

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I think the thing that annoys me about the "True Love" thing is that when this show originally started it was saying there isn't such a thing as True Love. The way the show talks about it, it's like this destiny thing. Like there is this other person walking around who's your objective "True Love" and all you have to do is meet them. And... that's it. You meet them and you know. So the difference between a life with love and a life without love is solely to do with whether or not you happen to stumble across this other person or not.

 

In the first season, the contrast between the real world and the fairy tale world was clear and the point was that there is no True Love. Not like this. What there are, are real relationships. And they take work and compromise and they're messy and people get hurt. There are mistakes and awkward one-night stands and fights and other people involved whose feelings you have to take into account. Emma giving her son True Love's kiss at the end of that season was so profound because that relationship had to be built and worked on and it wasn't romantic.

 

Now, like the Dark One plotline, they've done a complete 180. Suddenly, True Love is real and it's instantaneous and has little to do with whether two people even have common interests or compatible personalities. It's like it's this objective physical thing that you trip over and go, "Finally! I've been looking for that everywhere!". The fact this was a lesbian love story is irrelevant compared to that. I don't care what gender the two people are, if you're going to do a love story then do it properly. We still have Captain Swan, thankfully, and Snow and Charming benefit from the excellent Season 1 development. But that's it. All the other relationships are shallow and unestablished.

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I'm midly okay with Red/Dorothy. I mean, yes, it wasn't an amazing love story, but we've seen other love stories as rushed as this one and we don't know yet if there will be more of it. Besides, I think the writers chose those characters because neither Red nor Dorothy have an official TL. Because frankly, if Mulan can't be with Aurora, I want her to be with Shang.

 

The real problem, to me, is that the writers didn't give me any reason to ship them. I mean, why would I want to see Red falling in love with someone as harsh and cranky as Dorothy? Poor Red! However, if I reply those scenes in my mind, but it's me instead of Red and someone like Matt Bomer or AlexSkars instead of Dorothy, then, yep, I would totally fall in love with them and their cranky asses. Right there. What I'm trying to say is that the only explanation I see is that Red thought Dorothy was insanely hot. Because other than that, I have nothing.

 

Charming staying at the Underworld could lead to more scenes with Hook and/or Emma, so I totally approve. Besides, he needs to meet his brother. 

 

Belle's plan would be acceptable if we had proof that her dad really cares about her, but I think that's not the case, so...

Edited by Helena Dax
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I'm midly okay with Red/Dorothy. I mean, yes, it wasn't an amazing love story, but we've seen other love stories as rushed as this one and we don't know yet if there will be more of it. Besides, I think the writers chose those characters because neither Red nor Dorothy have an official TL. Because frankly, if Mulan can't be with Aurora, I want her to be with Shang.

 

The real problem, to me, is that the writers didn't give me any reason to ship them. I mean, why would I want to see Red falling in love with someone as harsh and cranky as Dorothy? Poor Red! However, if I reply those scenes in my mind, but it's me instead of Red and someone like Matt Bomer or AlexSkars instead of Dorothy, then, yep, I would totally fall in love with them and their cranky asses. Right there. What I'm trying to say is that the only explanation I see is that Red thought Dorothy was insanely hot. Because other than that, I have nothing.

Yeah, I thought the setup could have been pretty sexy. Unfortunately they rushed the timeline - why couldn't they find a way to have them spend more than a day together?  And the actors just didn't have much chemistry.  I think they are both hot, though Dorothy isn't a great actor.  But they just don't click.  Charming and Hook had more chemistry in their one and a half minute talk.

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Belle's plan would be acceptable if we had proof that her dad really cares about her, but I think that's not the case, so...

I was thinking about that.  She and Maurice were fine in the fairyback which was a long time ago and I think he attended the wedding(?).  However, I remember when he tried to whip out her existence (identity/memory) to keep her away from Rumple.  Not a lot of true love in evidence lately.  They kept bringing up her mother - where is she?   A much more likely source of true love imo.

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Also, the same height. 

Belle could wear flats.

 

And, since she'd be spending extra time with her new bestie, she'd be off-screen more often.  It's win-win-win.

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