S02.E09: Nailed

[morgankobi]

Vince Gilligan likes head-banging, because Chuck banging his head reminded me of the guy in BB (can't remember his name but Skyler worked for him) who tripped on the carpet and banged his head on the kitchen counter.  He didn't die but I think he was pretty messed up and suffered brain damage. 

 

Ted. Of "I fucked Ted," fame.

[RCharter]

I think Kim's choice echoes that proposed to viewers by the series, i.e. would you rather be the person who is highly educated and technically correct all the time but an ass with issues, or the flim-flam guy who is fun, not perfect and has a heart? 

 

I wonder if this assholery plays into why Chuck is no longer married. Not the mental issues, that seems to be an effect that came after a cause. I wonder if his wife left him and then he went wonka. Though he seems to have always resented Jimmy to some degree, even while being right about who Jimmy is.

The funny thing is, it could mostly be Chuck's assholery that makes Rebecca leave....and he would still find a way to make it Jimmy's fault.

[henripootel]

If everyone was so permanently convinced that Chuck's supposed transposition error caused the Mesa Verde disaster, and Chuck was so powerless to convince anyone otherwise, there would have been no need for Jimmy to go down to the print shop, at Kim's opaque suggestion.

I don't think Jimmy paying off a copy guy = Jimmy is in danger of getting caught.  If Chuck catches even a whiff of something, he can proceed with litigation, and who knows what that might turn up?  Better to be safe than sorry, and even Jimmy paying off the copy guy can be explained away, if necessary.  Best not to make it necessary.  It would cost Jimmy time and money to defend and it might embarrass Chuck even further.  

 

I know, fuck Chuck, but I think as far as Jimmy's concerned, everything worked out smashingly.  Mesa Verde's back with Kim and Jimmy got away with it (as far as he knows), so the score is even.  I honestly don't think he wants Chuck humiliated further, which he certainly would be if he tried to push this along with no evidence.  I mean Jimmy certainly didn't want to see Chuck hurt - he looks like he's on the verge of running over to make sure somebody calls 911.  This might cause further awkwardness that'd have to be explained away ('I was on my way to see Chuck to straighten things out, I saw him leave and followed him, and that's how I came to be at the copy place') but I'm pretty sure Jimmy's gonna do this if somebody doesn't step up quickly.  

[Clanstarling]

I just rewatched the episode. Watching Chuck lose control in that meeting with the Arizona State Regulator -- especially when the regulator told him to "maybe double-check next time" -- It felt like Chuck was two steps away from turning into the Clock King.  [/batman reference]

Also, the moment that *Kim* really sold it to me that she believed Chuck made a mistake is when he yelled at her "I don't make mistakes!" and she cocks her head back in shock and retorts, "I believe you did." She really sold it in that moment. And then she told Chuck off with real conviction and sadness in her eyes. Great acting my KIM there (and of course by Rhea).

Seeing Kim's response typed out confirmed (to me anyway) what's been going around in my head regarding this scene. On the surface, it's all about Kim making a choice for Jimmy's sake, while understanding that Chuck is right about Jimmy. But I think there's more to it than that.

I think on the surface (this episode seems all about surface vs subtext) the mistake is the presumptive typo, but underneath that, Chuck's mistake is thinking that Kim would in any way be his ally. That she doesn't carry a grudge for him undermining her relationship with Mesa Verde in the first place.

Kim's argument, on the surface, is all about Jimmy. But underneath it, I think Kim chose herself. Chose to keep her clients, chose her own small measure of revenge. Which, unfortunately, comes with a side order of self-hatred and diminishing affection for Jimmy.

What I love about this show, is how someone (Chuck) can be so right, and yet be so hateful I don't care that he's right. That's quality writing and acting.

Edited April 13, 2016 by clanstarling

[Madding crowd]

Jimmy and Chuck are alike in a lot of ways, like real brothers. They both don't know when to let something go, they both go overboard to make a point and in their own F'd up way, they care about each other. I don't think anything legal will come out of Jimmy's forgery, but I'm also mad at him for doing it. Kim doesn't want work that someone else has to get for her. If Jimmy trusted her, she would find her own way in her career. If she could only get the client back by having Jimmy break the law, is it worth it? And yes, Chuck was responsible for taking it away from her, but he didn't commit a crime to do it. In the real world, you have to fight for every client and nothing is guaranteed.

 

If Jimmy really cared about Kim, he would see that this type of thing is just driving her further and further away from him. I actually think his motivations were not really to make her happy but to screw Chuck and to bring in more business for their new venture. I would really love to know more about Jimmy's thought processes. He is funny and his scams are amusing but I don't know what he really thinks inside. The same thing with the school yard commercial. Why did he have to shoot in that school yard during a school day? Isn't there a park, war memorial or building of some kind he could use? People barely pay attention to commercials anyway. He just does stuff to see if he will get in trouble and sometimes it's just juvenile.

 

As far as Mike, I am not as enthralled with his story as everyone else. I saw all I want to see about drug lords on Breaking Bad, and I have no particular interest in finding out more. And much like Jimmy, why can't Mike just leave things alone? I know he thinks he is the baddest guy around, but no one is invincible. I get the idea that Mike and Jimmy are alike in some ways (also Jimmy and Chuck), but I'm not sure why Mike's story is in this show. I'm hoping next season is not going to be mostly about the drug cartel because I already saw that. I'm guessing it is because what else are they going to fill the time with? Jimmy is already on his slippery slope and not much more can happen besides Kim and Chuck's stories. 

[TVFan17]

Jimmy and Chuck are alike in a lot of ways, like real brothers. They both don't know when to let something go, they both go overboard to make a point and in their own F'd up way, they care about each other. I don't think anything legal will come out of Jimmy's forgery, but I'm also mad at him for doing it. Kim doesn't want work that someone else has to get for her. If Jimmy trusted her, she would find her own way in her career. If she could only get the client back by having Jimmy break the law, is it worth it? And yes, Chuck was responsible for taking it away from her, but he didn't commit a crime to do it. In the real world, you have to fight for every client and nothing is guaranteed.

 

If Jimmy really cared about Kim, he would see that this type of thing is just driving her further and further away from him. I actually think his motivations were not really to make her happy but to screw Chuck and to bring in more business for their new venture. I would really love to know more about Jimmy's thought processes. He is funny and his scams are amusing but I don't know what he really thinks inside. The same thing with the school yard commercial. Why did he have to shoot in that school yard during a school day? Isn't there a park, war memorial or building of some kind he could use? People barely pay attention to commercials anyway. He just does stuff to see if he will get in trouble and sometimes it's just juvenile.

 

As far as Mike, I am not as enthralled with his story as everyone else. I saw all I want to see about drug lords on Breaking Bad, and I have no particular interest in finding out more. And much like Jimmy, why can't Mike just leave things alone? I know he thinks he is the baddest guy around, but no one is invincible. I get the idea that Mike and Jimmy are alike in some ways (also Jimmy and Chuck), but I'm not sure why Mike's story is in this show. I'm hoping next season is not going to be mostly about the drug cartel because I already saw that. I'm guessing it is because what else are they going to fill the time with? Jimmy is already on his slippery slope and not much more can happen besides Kim and Chuck's stories. 

 

I think Mike's story is in this show to keep the BB fans watching -- the specific BB fans who are otherwise bored or disenchanted with BCS.  There are a lot of people who are bored with this show, feel it moves too slowly, etc. (comments to this effect are scattered about in cyberspace), and I suspect they are only staying tuned in for the BB connections at this point. 

 

That works out well for all viewers, though, because the show stays on the air and everyone gets something from it.  The people who are interested in Jimmy-Chuck-Kim-Howard will get their fill of that stuff, and the people who love the stories involving Mike and the Salamancas get a bit of that.  I wouldn't want to see what happens to the show's ratings if Mike and all of the Cartel stories disappeared, and we are only left with Chuck, Kim and Howard (aside from Jimmy).

 

While I disagree with you about seeing more Mike/drug cartel stuff next season (I am absolutely for seeing more of it, and would possibly not watch the show if Mike's part of the series and the BB callbacks didn't exist), I totally agree with you that he should have left well enough alone (just as Jimmy should have left things alone).  Mike's actions -- even after he had fallen (somewhat) off of the Salamancas' radar -- got an innocent person killed.  He went to elaborate lengths to put together the spike strip -- and his whole plan ended up getting someone shot in the face by Hector.  He didn't have to do any of that.

 

And Jimmy should absolutely realize that his antics are going to push Kim away.  He can't stop himself.

 

I don't fully trust Nacho -- I feel like he will squeal on Mike at some point, especially if Hector starts to question Nacho -- and yet, I am not worried for Mike's safety.  So I wonder how that will play out.

Edited April 13, 2016 by Sherry67

[Constantinople]

When my brother was 8 he stole a gluestick from a paper shop. Now he's in law enforcement. People change. There are many complete and utter screw-ups who fixed their lives and became human beings with a little support from friends and families. Say, Robert Downey, Jr. Jimmy seemed to be on that road--no trouble for years...

We've had few, possible only two, flashbacks to Jimmy's time after he first left Illinois and before became a lawyer. I'm not yet willing to say that Jimmy was no trouble at this time.

 

...until his brother stabbed him in the back and he ended up living in a nail salon and arguing shit cases for pennies on top of the hours he spent each day meeting his mentally ill brother's exacting requirements for agoraphobic living. If Chuck had given Jimmy a chance (just as Kim says in this episode) he could have helped Jimmy become something more than a chimp with a gun. Chuck is getting exactly the brother he deserves.

Kim, Howard and Cliff gave Jimmy a chance to be something more than a chimp with a gun. Jimmy took the job with Davis & Main not because he wanted to but because Jimmy thought that's what Kim wanted him to do. Just as previously Jimmy walked the straight and narrow, if he did, because he thought that's what Chuck wanted Jimmy to do.

Once Jimmy decided to do what he wanted to do and not what he thought others wanted to do, he stopped flushing the toilet after leaving a deuce and started playing the bag pipes in the office.

Jimmy's a shyster because he wants to be a shyster.

Even Kim, his greatest champion to date, isn't willing to enter into a business partnership with him.

[millennium]

 I totally agree with you that he should have left well enough alone (just as Jimmy should have left things alone).  Mike's actions -- even after he had fallen (somewhat) off of the Salamancas' radar -- got an innocent person killed.  He went to elaborate lengths to put together the spike strip -- and his whole plan ended up getting someone shot in the face by Hector.  He didn't have to do any of that.

 

This show serves an extant storyline (Breaking Bad).      The Good Samaritan's death is a first step on the road to Drew Sharpe.

 

Speaking of Drew, I wish BCS would somehow tie up a few loose ends from Breaking Bad --  like did the authorities ever find Jesse's confession DVD and learn what really happened to the boy, even if it's just present-day Saul sitting in a rundown apartment eating a TV dinner and hearing about it on the evening news, or glancing at a headline in the newspaper, or on the web ... just something.

[Madding crowd]

I agree that people like what they like-everyone is entitled to wanting a specific version of the show. I don't agree that the show has to be about Breaking Bad or the drug cartels. The show is called Better Call Saul and was written to showcase Odenkirk and his popularity among viewers. If written correctly and kept to a few seasons, I think they could have done a show about Jimmy, his relationship with Kim and Chuck, the law firms he is involved in and possibly interesting stories about his clients. 

 

I know that this is a very minority view here, but I watch to find out what happened in the life of Jimmy, how he became Saul and what his life was like before that. I loved Breaking Bad, but the show is over and I don't watch or get excited about spying characters from BB or places from BB. Of course, YMMV.  i wouldn't have an objection to see some of Jimmy's clients be BB characters because that seems like a natural progression for the character. Having half the show be about Mike doesn't .

[DrSpaceman73]

Chuck is 100% an asshole, but at the same time, how much must it suck to always be the one to do the right thing and always take the long way around for half of the acclaim and appreciation, when your younger brother seems to put in 1/2 of the work and, even worse, 1/4 of the care and responsibility and yet always seems reach the finish line, if not first, then at least to the adoration of the crowd.

I feel for Chuck, and I feel for Jimmy and I feel for Kim. I understand all of their motivations and their choices, and whether I agree with them or not, that is really all I want in a drama. To understand where each character is coming from, even if I hate them or loathe what they stand for. I think that this show does character driven drama even better than Breaking Bad, and that is saying something. Chuck is as important to this story as Jimmy, and even more important than Mike, IMO, so I hope that they don't give up on all of that too soon.

Chuck doesn't always do the right thing. Just because he follows all the legal rules does not mean he always does the "right thing".

Jimmy put himself through law school while working in a mail room and trying to live up to his brother's expectations. Even that was not good enough for Chuck.

Chuck has a serious psychiatric problem that he refuses to acknowledge or get treatment for, causing an entire company to work around his neurosis.

He has used Kim as a pawn in a game of one upmanship with Jimmy all season.

He is a great lawyer but a deeply flawed human being. And he refusing to see recognize those flaws.

Edited April 13, 2016 by DrSpaceman73

[TVFan17]

I don't think that this show "has to" be about Breaking Bad or the drug cartels.   I am only saying I think that the reason that those things are in the show is because a lot of people do want to see them -- not even necessarily here on this forum.   I see a lot of "I'm only interested in Jimmy" sentiment on this forum, and most people here didn't want a BB lite.  I am just talking about the comments I have read in various places online.  There is no getting around the fact that a lot of people are bored with just the straight Kim-Chuck-Howard stuff, and if the show came down to them and law firms I think it would end up tanking.   The inclusion of the BB references, characters and callbacks is going to help keep people tuned in, and help keep BCS on the air for everyone to enjoy the parts of it that they like.

 

I liked Saul as a bit of occasional comic relief on BB.  I would have never thought to build a whole show around him, and I never heard anyone that I personally know (who watched BB) saying, "We need a whole show about Saul."  I guess there were people out there who wanted it, because here it is.  I like Bob O., and Jimmy is interesting and very charming/likable, but I never saw that Saul was so immensely popular as to have a whole show about him.  If he was, I never knew it.  I was actually surprised when I heard there would be a show about him.

 

I have one friend right now who I can't even convince to tune in to BCS at all!  She liked Jesse and Walt on BB, and she kind of liked Gus.  Everything else was not of interest to her, so she is not racing to Netflix or to AMC to watch BCS, and I'm sure she is not the only out there who feels that way.  She won't even tune in for Jimmy, Mike and the Salamancas, let alone Kim, Chuck and Howard and assorted law firm hijinks.

 

The same people who decided to call the show "Better Call Saul" are also the ones who are deciding to include the whole Mike-Salamanca-Cartel storyline.  Right now they appear to not want the show to only be about Saul, Chuck, Kim and Howard, or they realize that enough people want that ongoing connection to the BB world and they include the stories for those people.   They can call it whatever they want, but they are putting content in the show to please people who want only Jimmy-related stories, and they are putting in content to please people who want the other BB connections.  It works out for all of us.  We all win!

 

 

 

I completely agree with millennium's point about the BB loose ends... and Jesse is a huge loose end.  That confession DVD is a big question mark, and just his general fate.  I agree that there could be a perfect opportunity at some point (maybe a couple of seasons down the road) to see "Gene" reading a newspaper, watching TV, listening to a radio or somehow hearing a quick, passing sentence said by someone that indicates where Jesse may have ended up.  It doesn't have to be a whole intricate plot or part of an episode, but just a little throwaway sentence that kind of wraps it all up.

Edited April 13, 2016 by Sherry67

[DrSpaceman73]

I probably shouldn't have any sympathy for Jimmy given all of the crap he has pulled, and how many lives he has damaged, but I do.  I just don't see what Kim sees in him.  He has damaged her career, and even though he has tried to fix it by doctoring documents, and doing other stupid things, he just makes matters worse for her.  If he wants to fuck up his own life, then that is on him, but if he truly gives a damn about Kim, he would distance himself from her.  

 

Now, because of his antics, he has set the wheels in motion for his brother being potentially seriously hurt, if not worse, when his brother (Chuck) faints and hits his head in the copy center..

I don't blame Jimmy for Chuck being hurt.

But Kim should see its a mistake to be in a law firm with him, even just sharing office space. They obviously have different ideas about the kind of firm they want to run.

Vince Gilligan likes head-banging, because Chuck banging his head reminded me of the guy in BB (can't remember his name but Skyler worked for him) who tripped on the carpet and banged his head on the kitchen counter.  He didn't die but I think he was pretty messed up and suffered brain damage. 

 

Regarding Chuck and Rebecca, I remember the scene where they're in the kitchen and she's making something and he's standing over her shoulder, seeming to see if she's doing things just right, to his satisfaction.  I wondered then if she was tensing up and thinking about  maiming him with a kitchen utensil.  It's just something about how he was watching her prepare the food that made me want to stab him.

Yes I thought of Ted as well when CHuck fell. Same sort of scene. I think Ted was paralyzed....don't remember exactly. Some type of serious injury.

I never thought that about Chuck and Rebecca in the kitchen, but an interesting perspective

[RCharter]

Jimmy's a shyster because he wants to be a shyster.

 

You're right, Jimmy wants to be slippin' Jimmy....as evidenced by the fact that he is still wearing that pinky ring....and is always fiddling with it.

 

It always seems to be when he is deep in thought, probably thinking of something slippin' Jimmy would do to get out of a problem.

 

I especially like the juxtaposition of Jimmy driving around in the Davis & Main Mercedes, while fiddling with the pinky ring.....it was just that one thing completely belongs in the normal....straight world of the sheep, and the other was part of the shady world of the wolf

 

 

Chuck doesn't always do the right thing. Just because he follows all the legal rules does not mean he always does the "right thing".

Jimmy put himself through law school while working in a mail room and trying to live up to his brother's expectations. Even that was not good enough for Chuck.

Chuck has a serious psychiatric problem that he refuses to acknowledge or get treatment for, causing an entire company to work around his neurosis.

He has used Kim as a pawn in a game of one upmanship with Jimmy all season.

He is a great lawyer but a deeply flawed human being. And he refusing to see recognize those flaws.

 

I think for someone as black and white as Chuck following the rules is doing the right thing.

 

For him, life should be a formula.  You follow rules a, b, and c and because you followed the rules and did the "right thing" you should get what you want.  And that has worked for a great part of his life.  It clearly enrages him that someone who isn't doing the right thing was not only given an opportunity to also become partner at a big law firm....but that it was roundly rejected!  To see Jimmy get what Chuck worked a lifetime to get....and then to throw it away.  Oh boy

 

I have an aunt who I do love dearly, and she is very religious woman -- but there are so many times I see her lack of compassion, sympathy and empathy.  It is part of the reason she is estranged from her own children.  Yes, she has followed all the "rules," but maybe she didn't do everything right.

 

I don't think that this show "has to" be about Breaking Bad or the drug cartels.   I am only saying I think that the reason that those things are in the show is because a lot of people do want to see them -- not even necessarily here on this forum.   I see a lot of "I'm only interested in Jimmy" sentiment on this forum, and most people here didn't want a BB lite.  I am just talking about the comments I have read in various places online.  There is no getting around the fact that a lot of people are bored with just the straight Kim-Chuck-Howard stuff, and if the show came down to them and law firms I think it would end up tanking.   The inclusion of the BB references, characters and callbacks is going to help keep people tuned in, and help keep BCS on the air for everyone to enjoy the parts of it that they like.

 

I liked Saul as a bit of occasional comic relief on BB.  I would have never thought to build a whole show around him, and I never heard anyone that I personally know (who watched BB) saying, "We need a whole show about Saul."  I guess there were people out there who wanted it, because here it is.  I like Bob O., and Jimmy is interesting and very charming/likable, but I never saw that Saul was so immensely popular as to have a whole show about him.  If he was, I never knew it.  I was actually surprised when I heard there would be a show about him.

 

I have one friend right now who I can't even convince to tune in to BCS at all!  She liked Jesse and Walt on BB, and she kind of liked Gus.  Everything else was not of interest to her, so she is not racing to Netflix or to AMC to watch BCS, and I'm sure she is not the only out there who feels that way.  She won't even tune in for Jimmy, Mike and the Salamancas, let alone Kim, Chuck and Howard and assorted law firm hijinks.

 

My two cents.  When I heard about this show, I had zero interest in it, because, Saul was just comedic relief on BB.  I couldn't envision a show that could really be interesting just built around Saul.  But I decided to give it a whirl once it came to Netflix, and I thought it was a great show in part because it did combine the backstories of some of the more interesting characters.  I guess its a credit to the creators of BB that they created characters that I cared to know more about.  When we met them in BB they were already who they were....but how did they get there?  I think the show is a great mix of the two, and that they would all somehow touch each others lives in the underworld is interesting to me.  So I'm happy with the show......but I've also loved the client of the week format too!  I'd love to see Playah again!  Even the Kettlemans!

 

I can only say that I haven't been at all disappointed, every. single. week. I feel like the hour has flown by.  Thats how great the show is to me.

[Ohwell]

I'd love to see Playah again!  Even the Kettlemans!

 

Playah?  Yes!  

 

Betsy Kettleman?  No, unless it's a jail scene, or if she gets off with no jail time, then working at an ABQ Cinnabon.  

[Irlandesa]

I don't think that this show "has to" be about Breaking Bad or the drug cartels.   I am only saying I think that the reason that those things are in the show is because a lot of people do want to see them -- not even necessarily here on this forum.  

While I don't deny people might want to see this crew, I don't think it's the main reason that crew is here. I think they're here largely because the show decided to delay Saul. 

 

Last season we saw how the two of them met and how Mike would end up working for Saul which how he was introduced to us in BB.  Other than perhaps the biggest nod to fan service I've ever seen this TPTB do, with Tuco, there were no drug cartels* and the show did absolutely fine with viewers.

 

*Well there was Nacho but he didn't have a huge presence.

 

But with Jimmy exploring the straight and narrow, he wasn't going to have the kind of clients  that would need the services of a Mike so they had to do something else with Mike.  I think they knew people wouldn't object to Tio & Tuco but it also may help fit a narrative need to connect Mike to Gus.  (If Gus shows up as I expect him to.) I think if the show had followed the original intent of converting Jimmy to Saul by season 2, we wouldn't have had Tio or Tuco again.

Edited April 14, 2016 by Irlandesa

[TVFan17]

In any event, whatever the reasons for Gilligan and Gould to put such an emphasis on Mike and the cartel shenanigans, we all get what we want the way it is now.  Those who want all of the Chuck-Kim-Howard stories are getting those, and those who want the Mike-Cartel stories are getting those.   But even that is not enough for a lot of people -- the show is not clicking (or, based on the season finale title, "Klick"-ing) with a certain segment of viewers, many of whom were BB viewers.  That's what is worrisome.   I think it would be too risky to suddenly remove all Salamanca/Mike and potential future Gus stuff from the show until there are enough other characters that are actually interesting enough to keep a lot of people tuned in.    So it works better for everyone if they just keep kind of dividing up the screen time between Jimmy's antics and Mike's antics.

Edited April 14, 2016 by Sherry67

[Tim Thomason]

Eventually, Jimmy/Saul has to have connections with the Cartel, because we heard him talk about it in his first appearance on Breaking Bad, where he suspected that they would have a genuine reason for kidnapping him and bringing him to the desert. "It wasn't me, it was Ignacio!"

 

So, I'm fine with entire subplots dealing with the Salamancas and Mike (who later ends up in Saul's employ) because they all lead to the same endpoint, calling forward Saul Goodman as we saw him in 2009.

[DangerousMinds]

I've seen BB. I LOVED BB. But I don't want or need to see those stories again, and this is a different show. Not all BB fans are going to be BCS fans, or even viewers, and that's ok.

[Umbelina]

By the way, there is a whole new thread for discussions like this "Gilligan's Islands." 

 

If Chuck changes, and honestly I don't care into what, I wouldn't object to him being on the show.  My problem with Chuck is, and has been for a while, that it's always, always the same old thing with him.  It bores me.  He may as well twirl his mustache.  I like the episodes when he has his freak outs, and I liked this one because he did something NEW, he made a fool of himself, and really showed his pompous, asshole side to everyone.  That was so refreshing. 

 

Kim's character has improved by leaps and bounds the last couple of episodes.  Howard's?  So far, still a Ken doll.  It's hard to care about characters that either always do the same thing, or I know nothing about.

Edited April 14, 2016 by Umbelina

[rollerblade]

 As to those choices...Mike took a heckuva chance that there would be zero traffic.  Sure, it is more likely than not that the highway would be empty all that time.  Yet???  That was a major variable he allowed into this.  It would have made for a super scene had that samaritan happened along as this went down.  How far would Mike have gone with him/her?

 

How does he even know the route of the Regalo truck? Did he tail the truck?

 

I wonder which highway it was where the whole setup took place. From the water compass, the truck is heading south-ish. That billboard which Mike parked his car behind, as well as the hose-ropeline setup, is of something Oasis Motor Court (with a "Next Exit" graphic that looks more like a freeway map marker).

 

There was a green highway sign that shows how far to the next few cities, like what you see on a normal freeway. It read:

Socorro .......... 14

Las Cruces ....161

El Paso  ........ 207

 

I-25(S) passes through all 3 cities. As do a set of highways that travels near and sorta parallel I-25. 14 miles north of Socorro would place the truck somewhere between San Acacia and Polvedera. There's NO WAY Mike could have set all that up on an interstate freeway, and the road does not look like a freeway either. The only highway-type roads going south-ish near the area is NM-408.

 

I guess the showdown between Mike's rhododendron hose and cartel's ice cream truck took place at a ficticious location?

[Baby Blue]

I really loved this episode - probably my favorite so far this season.  

 

I'm still feeling guilty over the extent of my schadenfreude after watching Chuck at the approval hearing,   Especially by the end of the show after seeing where this chain of events led.  But I can no more blame Jimmy for it than I can Chuck. Both played roles.

 

At first, I was afraid that the copier jam the women were asking for help with when Chuck was confronting Lance, would produce evidence of Jimmy's handiwork that  somehow Chuck would see.

 

There are not that many shows  I go out of my way to see these days, but this is definitely one of them.   While I loved BrBa, count me in the camp that is also enjoying the world outside of the cartel.  Gilligould, et al, know how to work magic with character development and details.  

 

Speaking of details, how perfect was it that when Chuck saw the number 1216, he would associate it to the year before the Magna Carta?  That is so Chuck.

[queenanne]

Maybe Chuck couldn't get enough proof to get Jimmy in legal trouble or trouble with the bar, but definately it would be enough proof to get Kim to leave Jimmy.  I think Chuck would be satisfied by that.  Jimmy is not lazy and has been meticulous in all his schemes, down to matching hair dye with Howard, so I don't believe he wouldn't have paid off the copy centre guy from the start.  I found that all a bit contrived to get Jimmy to arrive at the copy centre to see Chuck have his melt down. 

 

Interesting you point out how exacting and detail-oriented both brothers are.  It's interesting for genetics, and it's interesting for lawyer adversaries, as well as arguing against the "Jimmy is a chimp with a machine gun who has no business being a lawyer".

 

Overall, I think the point about the typo is specious legally, though they built it up nicely and well with the time lock, which gives it a certain sort of punch that makes it plausible - payments and advertising to undo, etc., for the "grand opening".  Mostly it's consequences are embarrassing in real life, if you write the wrong title for your creative clients' works, etc.  Or if someone had had to run a title search, of course then it would have been discovered earlier; and there are some situations where it matters, like an address for notice of service - because potentially the folks at 1261 could open your secret legal documents, trying to figure out to whom they should go.  But for the introductory clause in an agreement?  I don't think it holds water as a worry.  The chances that anyone would actually mistake the business purpose of offices like, say, Coca-Cola for that of Liz Claiborne, merely because items meant for #2 had the address of #1, are slim to none.

 

As for the overall "lawyers do or don't bring documents home", of course they do to some extent.  They go to court, and they go directly to court from their homes after time spent preparing.  Some times boxes are shunted around town and are done by an Ernesto type employed at the law firm, not a licensed and bonded service.  At one job where I worked, I'd see young guys in white button-downs and suit pants trundling cartons through the lobby on dollies daily.

 

As for Kim overall, I don't think we've seen the last of the "blended firms" as it would seem a bit silly for her to then do the renovating, but I suppose you never know.  I could see a situation where they spent a while in the same office area as silent icy strangers.

Edited April 14, 2016 by queenanne

[RCharter]

 

Speaking of details, how perfect was it that when Chuck saw the number 1216, he would associate it to the year before the Magna Carta?  That is so Chuck.

I always think of 12 and 16 together because they are close multiples of the number 4.  I'm a weirdo, but at least I'm okay with electricity!

[Milburn Stone]

Overall, I think the point about the typo is specious legally, though they built it up nicely and well with the time lock, which gives it a certain sort of punch that makes it plausible - payments and advertising to undo, etc., for the "grand opening"...The introductory clause in an agreement?  I don't think it holds water as a worry.  

 

I appreciate this inside perspective. It makes me think a large contributing reason for Mesa Verde's departure from HHM was not merely the error, not merely Mesa Verde's costs associated with the error, but Chuck's arrogant and disrespectful attitude toward his clients in the hearing, essentially telling them they don't know where their new bank is. With a humble apologetic attitude substituted for the disrespectful one--maybe even accompanied by a "We'll make this right, we'll compensate you for the costs associated with our error"--I'm sure they would have stayed with HHM.

Edited April 14, 2016 by Milburn Stone

[Tatum]

Some might argue that Chuck had it coming, but I was suffering from such bad second hand embarrassment for him that I could not wait for that scene in front of the state commission to be over. I am a little more sympathetic to Chuck than a lot of viewers though. I prefer Jimmy to Chuck, obviously, but I don't think Chuck is all evil.

That said, I thought it was super shitty was when he insisted to Kim that she disclose what Jimmy did to Mesa Verde. I get it, for someone like Chuck, being accused of careless work that cost a client money and a 6 week delay when he didn't make a mistake is a hard pill to swallow. But, let's just say that Kim admitted to Chuck she knew he was telling the truth (and we all know she knows he is), and felt obligated to tell her client. So, Kim sits down with Kevin and Paige (who are already agitated), and says her boyfriend and quasi business partner ("partner" as in financial, not legal practice) and Chuck have a longstanding feud, and the transposition error was not a careless mistake but a malicious prank, at the time and expense of Mesa Verde. Is that really going to make Kevin feel any better about either attorney vying for his business? If I were him I'd tell them both to kick rocks and regret the day that Paige ever took Kim's call. Not that any of this is Kim's fault, but she brought them over. Kim's disclosure may restore Chuck as someone who doesn't make mistakes in the client's eyes, but I still wouldn't be impressed with an attorney who has enough family issues that it bleeds into MY professional area. HHM isn't getting that client back, and to make Kim suffer just to "be square" is not fair to either her or Mesa Verde.

 

I appreciate this inside perspective. It makes me think a large contributing reason for Mesa Verde's departure from HHM was not merely the error, not merely Mesa Verde's costs associated with the error, but Chuck's arrogant and disrespectful attitude toward his clients in the hearing, essentially telling them they don't know where their new bank is. With a humble apologetic attitude substituted for the disrespectful one, I think they would have stayed with HHM.

 

 

Good point! As I said, I was a bit more of a Chuck sympathizer, but when he snottily told Paige to quit muddying the waters as she is holding the initial document clearly supporting her assertion, I was like, what are you doing? So not the way to handle this.

[ShadowFacts]

 

If Jimmy really cared about Kim, he would see that this type of thing is just driving her further and further away from him. I actually think his motivations were not really to make her happy but to screw Chuck and to bring in more business for their new venture. I would really love to know more about Jimmy's thought processes. He is funny and his scams are amusing but I don't know what he really thinks inside. The same thing with the school yard commercial. Why did he have to shoot in that school yard during a school day? Isn't there a park, war memorial or building of some kind he could use? People barely pay attention to commercials anyway. He just does stuff to see if he will get in trouble and sometimes it's just juvenile.

 

Lots of what Jimmy does is juvenile.  Not flushing the toilet?  Having the juicer explode on bystanders at work?  He has some arrested development.  There was no reason for him to be doing his commercial on a school day-do it on a weekend.  Or as mentioned, at a different public place.  But he's got a little delusion going, that he's a producer and now he has another assistant doing makeup.  And he just likes the thrill of seeing what he can get away with.  It's pretty childish for a man in his forties.  There is the fun, charming, schmoozy Jimmy schtick, and there's the stupid adolescent stuff. 

 

Right now his over-zealous "help" has gotten Kim her client back but she is losing respect for him. She said she felt sorry for him.  It's two strikes, Jimmy, first she went and recommended you to Davis and Main where you acted like an idiot, now you've gone and forged documents to get her client back.  Third strike is out. 

[Tikichick]

I was waiting for Better Call Saul to debut because I enjoyed what this team brought in Breaking Bad.  I was unsure about Saul as the pivotal, title character but decided I had to at least give it a try.  I've been more than pleasantly surprised, so much so that this show has surpassed Breaking Bad in my rating scale.

 

I absolutely believe Chuck drove Rebecca away with his need to control every detail of everything to perfection, because of course he knows best.  I think we saw the beginning of the end of their relationship played out on screen already, the dinner with Jimmy.  Absolutely drove Chuck beyond the bend that Rebecca found Jimmy engaging and funny.  She did that all wrong, obviously she was supposed to find Jimmy obnoxious and beneath them -- and they were supposed to be laughing behind Jimmy's back and then dish about him after he left.  I believe Chuck doubled down on his attempt to micromanage and suggest ways she should handle things at the orchestra with the musician he was intent she remain at odds with and put in their place.  I'm sure Jimmy was a feature in their lives now that he's in town, and I wouldn't be surprised if he became friendly with Rebecca.  Chuck likely went to work on his insidious mission to see his brother stomped down into his proper position and Rebecca was sickened by his schemes, they fought and it snowballed into the end.  So of course that equates into Jimmy being at fault for destroying their relationship in Chuck's mind.  

[Boilergal]

I have a feeling we are going to be very pleased when the Mike and Saul story lines merge.  We know they are teamed up in Breaking Bad, Saul uses Mike as a clean-up guy for the Jane issue.  

 

Just sit back and relax and enjoy the back stories that get us there.  Jimmy has a path that makes him Saul, and Mike has a path that makes him the type of person that would work for Walter and Jesse.     

[Tatum]

 

On a lighter note, I cracked up when Jimmy was trying to b.s. the teachers or administrators at the school, and said something about the kids like, "just give 'em a worksheet."  I feel like the humor quotient could go up a tick.  One of the best parts of BB was that Walt or Jesse or of course Saul would often interject a real zinger amongst all the gloom and doom.

 

Agree! I love Jimmy's smooth improvising. This building was built in 1971? Well, we meant the old building. We have to take some artistic liberties here. Or, he's British? Good trivia! But this is still where he went to school.

 

One of my all time favorite lines in BB belonged to Mike. When Walt found out that Saul sent Mike to bug his house, and Mike is removing all the bugs, and Walt is standing over him insisting every last bug be removed. Mike is like, believe me, you're not that interesting, and these bugs each cost $800. I loved Mike's deadpan implication that Walt is flattering himself if he thinks anyone is spying on him for fun.

[Bannon]

Interesting you point out how exacting and detail-oriented both brothers are.  It's interesting for genetics, and it's interesting for lawyer adversaries, as well as arguing against the "Jimmy is a chimp with a machine gun who has no business being a lawyer".

 

Overall, I think the point about the typo is specious legally, though they built it up nicely and well with the time lock, which gives it a certain sort of punch that makes it plausible - payments and advertising to undo, etc., for the "grand opening".  Mostly it's consequences are embarrassing in real life, if you write the wrong title for your creative clients' works, etc.  Or if someone had had to run a title search, of course then it would have been discovered earlier; and there are some situations where it matters, like an address for notice of service - because potentially the folks at 1261 could open your secret legal documents, trying to figure out to whom they should go.  But for the introductory clause in an agreement?  I don't think it holds water as a worry.  The chances that anyone would actually mistake the business purpose of offices like, say, Coca-Cola for that of Liz Claiborne, merely because items meant for #2 had the address of #1, are slim to none.

 

As for the overall "lawyers do or don't bring documents home", of course they do to some extent.  They go to court, and they go directly to court from their homes after time spent preparing.  Some times boxes are shunted around town and are done by an Ernesto type employed at the law firm, not a licensed and bonded service.  At one job where I worked, I'd see young guys in white button-downs and suit pants trundling cartons through the lobby on dollies daily.

 

As for Kim overall, I don't think we've seen the last of the "blended firms" as it would seem a bit silly for her to then do the renovating, but I suppose you never know.  I could see a situation where they spent a while in the same office area as silent icy strangers.

Yeah, I tend to think the impact of the transposition is overblown, but in the context of a time delay, I'll buy it. Again the writers have, what, about 450-500 minutes over 10 weeks, each year, to tell the story. There just isn't time for the various ruses and machinations to get much more complex.

[PrincessSteel]

The fact that this show exists in the usually symmetrical Gilligan-verse, I was expecting poor, dim Lance to say something stupid to echo the earlier 'Isn't Rupert Holmes English?' gaffe made by Jimmy's film crew member. Something like 'Look, I already told you, your brother has never been in here.' For a feckless graveyard shift copy shop guy, he held to the con really well.

[ShadowFacts]

We pretty much know Jimmy is going to get away with his forgery because we know he still has his law license well into the future.  But that doesn't mean it was no big deal legally.  Presenting a false document to a state or federal regulatory agency is pretty big.  It's something we should expect lawyers not to be doing.  What is more interesting to me is whether he really gets away with it though.  If Chuck regains consciousness but for whatever reason is not long for this world, does Jimmy let him go to his grave thinking he did what Chuck himself described as the biggest embarrassment of his career?  In the usually symmetrical Gilligan-verse just referenced, does he end up crying the hardest at Chuck's funeral the way he did at their father's? 

[TVFan17]

As for the overall "lawyers do or don't bring documents home", of course they do to some extent.  They go to court, and they go directly to court from their homes after time spent preparing.  Some times boxes are shunted around town and are done by an Ernesto type employed at the law firm, not a licensed and bonded service.  At one job where I worked, I'd see young guys in white button-downs and suit pants trundling cartons through the lobby on dollies daily..

 

Not only do lawyers bring documents and work home, these days some attorneys (especially older ones or the ones who are not in great health) don't even have actual offices and just work at home (though that could be more of a California thing) -- which would lead to more documents being kept at home.    I did a lot of work for attorneys who were home based -- no offices at all, or they got rid of their offices and started only working from home.  They had all kinds of boxes of things with them at all times, it seemed.   They really just needed someone to type work for them when needed, and someone else to handle some paralegal-sorts of things when needed, and they cut down on costs by not renting an office and hiring a full-time staff.  Other than that, the ones who did work in offices also brought work home and worked at night, in the middle of the night, on the weekends, etc. (and, of course, they expected people to be available to type their work at any hour of the day or night as well), so they always had documents in every stage (each draft) at their fingertips.

Edited April 14, 2016 by Sherry67

[peeayebee]

Speaking of details, how perfect was it that when Chuck saw the number 1216, he would associate it to the year before the Magna Carta?  That is so Chuck.

Yes. Perfect. It also makes sense that Chuck would be so positive about not making a mistake because he had made the Magna Carta association.

[ByTor]

if Gilligan & Co. want Lance to resurface, they can, but we also shouldn't be surprised if we never see him again and should just hand-wave the whole tape situation away as unimportant.

Exactly. I think there's a lot of "even minor scenes are not unimportant" sentiment, nut I think many are. We never saw the Kettlemans again. Many predicted Pryce's fate, but we never heard a peep about him subsequent to the "squat cobbler" incident. In that same vein, I don't think the Salamanca driver will ever be spoken about again. Sometimes minor characters/occurrences are just that, minor, and warrant no further exploration.

I'm not sure if it's my love of Michael McKean (not to mention David St. Hubbins!) clouding my judgment, but damn if I didn't feel sorry for Chuck during that hearing. He is obviously loathe to admit he is ever wrong, but in this case he WASN'T wrong. So, even though he behaved like a complete arrogant ass, telling his client that THEY were wrong about their own address (and was dead wrong to do so), I understood (but didn't condone) that all that pent up anger made his professionalism completely fly out the window. I also find the implication that he's impaired in performing his job due to a mental illness that has nothing to do with his job offensive. Obviously I immensely enjoy the Chuck character & like what he brings to the show, and I hope he lives to see another day!

I also really felt for Mike, Jonathan Banks' facial expression upon hearing the bystander was murdered was perfect. I wish I remember who said this so I could give proper credit, but I loved the poster's idea of Gus sitting with Mike at the diner would be great. I agree with those who don't want this to turn into a show with mostly BB characters, but as a prequel I feel like we need at least some, and Gus IMO would be great.

[TVFan17]

I think we will see the Salamanca truck driver again -- at least in the season finale on Monday.  After that episode, probably not.

 

Not only would Gus be great to have on BCS -- just here and there, as I don't think he'd be a regular member of the cast -- but it works with and is organic to the Mike storyline evolution, since we know what happens in BB.   The Mike-Salamanca connection popping up in BCS was what surprised me, as that is not something that was ever really shown or alluded to in BB.  But a Mike-Gus meeting is inevitable... and probably expected by most BB viewers at this point.

[Bannon]

Exactly. I think there's a lot of "even minor scenes are not unimportant" sentiment, nut I think many are. We never saw the Kettlemans again. Many predicted Pryce's fate, but we never heard a peep about him subsequent to the "squat cobbler" incident. In that same vein, I don't think the Salamanca driver will ever be spoken about again. Sometimes minor characters/occurrences are just that, minor, and warrant no further exploration.

I'm not sure if it's my love of Michael McKean (not to mention David St. Hubbins!) clouding my judgment, but damn if I didn't feel sorry for Chuck during that hearing. He is obviously loathe to admit he is ever wrong, but in this case he WASN'T wrong. So, even though he behaved like a complete arrogant ass, telling his client that THEY were wrong about their own address (and was dead wrong to do so), I understood (but didn't condone) that all that pent up anger made his professionalism completely fly out the window. I also find the implication that he's impaired in performing his job due to a mental illness that has nothing to do with his job offensive. Obviously I immensely enjoy the Chuck character & like what he brings to the show, and I hope he lives to see another day!

I also really felt for Mike, Jonathan Banks' facial expression upon hearing the bystander was murdered was perfect. I wish I remember who said this so I could give proper credit, but I loved the poster's idea of Gus sitting with Mike at the diner would be great. I agree with those who don't want this to turn into a show with mostly BB characters, but as a prequel I feel like we need at least some, and Gus IMO would be great.

As a factual matter, an attorney who believes electricity is harming him, to the point that he becomes incapacitated occasionally, and when he does it can last for hours, and it is more likely to happen in stressful situations, is having his job performance affected by his illness. No, he isn't flying airplanes, but being able to reliably avoid losing consciousness when there are operating electrical devices nearby, has value when doing the work of an attorney. Can it be managed around? Sure, depending on the severity of the affliction, and what is demanded of the attorney. In this way, it isn't that different from epilepsy, which of course isn't a mental illness, but is one that, with varying degrees, causes those who have it to lose consciousness. Sometimes it can be managed effectively, and sometimes not. There was a head football coach in a major conference this year, for instance, who was forced to retire this season, because after years of managing it, the frequency of the seizures, and subsequnt periods of recuperation, were just inconsistent with the job that a football coach does. There's a reason Chuck was one Jimmy McGill signature away from commitment.

 

I understand the anger, but to suggest that the affliction, that Chuck is portrayed as having, is inconsequential to doing high level legal work, in all it's various facets, is not realistic.  

 

I write this as somebody who wouldn't mind if the character stayed on the show.

Edited April 14, 2016 by Bannon

[ByTor]

As a factual matter, an attorney who believes electricity is harming him, to the point that he becomes incapacitated occasionally, and when he does it can last for hours, and it is more likely to happen in stressful situations, is having his job performance affected by his illness.

How? He's able to do the exact job from home (like Sandpiper). Plus, he went out without his space suit and was able to do a damn fine job of smooth talking Mesa Verde back to HHM. His illness has not been shown to have an adverse effect on his job performance, just on the physical conditions under which he performs his job (as well as on his personal life, which goes without saying). To suggest incompetence based on this is offensive and insulting to people with mental illnesses.

I understand the anger, but to suggest that the affliction, that Chuck is portrayed as having, is inconsequential to doing high level legal work, in all it's various facets, is not realistic.

Again, why? He HAS been doing high level legal work. It is his refusal to admit he is wrong, NOT his affliction, that was an issue in the hearing.

I think we will see the Salamanca truck driver again -- at least in the season finale on Monday.  After that episode, probably not.

Honestly, I'll be stunned if we do. But if he is on, I hope he has that same song on the radio, it was quite catchy :) Edited April 14, 2016 by ByTor

[Umbelina]

I didn't feel sorry for Chuck, because his arrogance and pompous dismissal of the bank's in house attorney and CEO showed his true colors.

 

He's just such an ass, especially to Jimmy, but as we saw there?  To anyone, because everyone is beneath him.

 

I absolutely wouldn't mind Chuck staying on the show, as long as "something different!" happens with him.  This episode was a real start for that, and I really hope it continues.  Until now, though a fantastic actor, I feel like his story is like watching Groundhog Day on a loop.  As long as they do something fresh with him, I'm all in.  If it's more of the same "Jimmy HARMED ME, and I will tell you why, over and over and over again?"  Yeah, don't care anymore.  We don't need anymore reasons for Jimmy to turn into Saul.  Been there, done that, bought the T shirt.  Entertain me!

 

The last couple of episodes have been much better so hopefully they are on a roll.

[Bannon]

Chuck just lost consciousness when attempting to get to the bottom of one of his clients being the victim of a forgery. He lost consciousness due to his mental illness. When one is attempting to to defend one's client's interests, it can be accomplished rather more effectively when one maintains consciousness. Now, if somebody faints one time, or even a few times, it's not a big deal. When it happens with some predictability in stressful situations, like after the Mesa Verde meeting, or in the print shop, and the period of incapacitation is substantial, the large potential exists to impact the quality of the work the client is receiving. I'm sorry, but you have to be reliably conscious to do the job, unless you simply consign yourself to not doing any work which involves client contact or work in public settings. What if Chuck gets an especially aggravating regulator/client/judge who he has to deal with, who gets off on pushing buttons? Or opposing counsel? He was just rendered unconscious by the behavior of a print shop nobody, for goodness sakes.  

 

Again, the parallel with epilepsy is illuminative. Some people with the disease can't work in high stress jobs, because the stress makes managing the frequency of seizures problematic. When it gets to the point that a stressful encounter with a uncooperative print shop guy is incapacitating, it can't be said that you can reliably perform a job that might entail dealing with far more difficult people than that. 

Edited April 14, 2016 by Bannon

[ShadowFacts]

It seems likely that due to the apparently bad head injury at the copy shop, Chuck's going to be out of the game.  Maybe he doesn't die or linger in a coma, but I think that for story purposes, he won't be working.  They have done the petty behavior-revenge dance a couple times now, we just don't need to keep seeing that, and something else fairly big has to happen with the brothers' relationship, especially since it is the final episode of the season.  I think whatever it is, it's going to be a big gut-punch to Jimmy, and loads of guilt will ensue. 

 

 

[Umbelina]

There is another option, Chuck COULD get the care he needs, and emerge cleared of his electricity delusions, and completely able to be an ass in spite of them, only a more effective ass.  As I said, anything different is good!  TM Bill Murray as Phil.

[ShadowFacts]

There is another option, Chuck COULD get the care he needs, and emerge cleared of his electricity delusions, and completely able to be an ass in spite of them, only a more effective ass.  As I said, anything different is good!  TM Bill Murray as Phil.

 

Yeah, I actually hold out hope for that outcome, too.  It could happen because he has in fact been making progress on his own without treatment.  He's quite determined.  There would be a lot of dramatic punch in that, too, but I think something more tragic is more likely in this show.

[HypatiaManque]

Will Kim hit Jimmy again next time he commits a felony or other action meriting disbarment, i.e., in lieu of explicit verbal acknowledgement? Perhaps it's best if, as ShadowFacts stated, it's three strikes and he's out. (I do not write this to vilify the character of Kim; I just personally find the portrayal of any physical aggression within a relationship, particularly, considering how infrequent its depiction, by a woman evocative--and I know it's a broad topic and could derail this thread if pursued further. I'll have to check out the gender issues thread in Everything Else TV, I suppose.)

 

Also, Bannon, your posts resonate with me; I'm someone who has seizure and vestibular disorders and, like Chuck, can 'pass' sometimes and be incapacitated by quotidian activities at other times. (I've also struggled with mental illness and am interested in the notion of neurotypical privilege, so the whole conversation with you, ByTor, intrigues me.) Thank you all.

 

[And, thank you, mod, for creating a live-chat thread for the finale and for all your hard work!]

 

</delurk>

Edited April 14, 2016 by HypatiaManque

[Bannon]

Will Kim hit Jimmy again next time he commits a felony or other action meriting disbarment, i.e., in lieu of explicit verbal acknowledgement? Perhaps it's best if, as ShadowFacts stated, it's three strikes and he's out. (I do not write this to vilify the character of Kim; I just personally find the portrayal of any physical aggression within a relationship, particularly, considering how infrequent its depiction, by a woman evocative--and I know it's a broad topic and could derail this thread if pursued further. I'll have to check out the gender issues thread in Everything Else TV, I suppose.)

 

Also, Bannon, your posts resonate with me; I'm someone who has seizure and vestibular disorders and, like Chuck, can 'pass' sometimes and be incapacitated by quotidian activities at other times. (I've also struggled with mental illness and am interested in the notion of neurotypical privilege, so the whole conversation with you, ByTor, intrigues me.) Thank you all.

 

[And, thank you, mod, for creating a live-chat thread for the finale and for all your hard work!]

 

</delurk>

Thanks. I certainly was not insulting anyone. There is certainly all kinds of high quality legal work Chuch can do, with the current state of his mental illness, but it is clear that stressful situations have a high potential to affect him physically in way that could pose a danger to himself (he might be dead now, kind of proving the point), and affect his ability to function. If HHM were to accomodate him, they really have to be disciplined to keep him out of those situations, and he needs to cooperate.

[ByTor]

Chuck just lost consciousness when attempting to get to the bottom of one of his clients being the victim of a forgery. He lost consciousness due to his mental illness. When one is attempting to to defend one's client's interests, it can be accomplished rather more effectively when one maintains consciousness. Now, if somebody faints one time, or even a few times, it's not a big deal. When it happens with some predictability in stressful situations, like after the Mesa Verde meeting, or in the print shop, and the period of incapacitation is substantial, the large potential exists to impact the quality of the work the client is receiving. I'm sorry, but you have to be reliably conscious to do the job, unless you simply consign yourself to not doing any work which involves client contact or work in public settings. What if Chuck gets an especially aggravating regulator/client/judge who he has to deal with, who gets off on pushing buttons? Or opposing counsel? He was just rendered unconscious by the behavior of a print shop nobody, for goodness sakes.  

 

Again, the parallel with epilepsy is illuminative. Some people with the disease can't work in high stress jobs, because the stress makes managing the frequency of seizures problematic. When it gets to the point that a stressful encounter with a uncooperative print shop guy is incapacitating, it can't be said that you can reliably perform a job that might entail dealing with far more difficult people than that.

Completely disagree. Chuck has never fainted due to stress, he has fainted due to his electricity fears. We never saw his losing consciousness with his lined suit on. Again, his job PERFORMANCE is not affected. Comparing epilepsy is apples to oranges, as epilepsy is not psychological. Some people, despite all the combinations of seizure meds, cannot get their condition under control; Chuck's is under control by being draped in foil.

[Bannon]

Completely disagree. Chuck has never fainted due to stress, he has fainted due to his electricity fears. We never saw his losing consciousness with his lined suit on. Again, his job PERFORMANCE is not affected. Comparing epilepsy is apples to oranges, as epilepsy is not psychological. Some people, despite all the combinations of seizure meds, cannot get their condition under control; Chuck's is under control by being draped in foil.

It certainly appears as if his electricity fears are aggravated by stress.  I am at a loss to understand how you have concluded that losing consciousness, when asking questions of a witness to a client being damaged by forgery, is not detrimental to job performance.  If you differ, however, we can agree to disagree.

Edited April 14, 2016 by Bannon

[rehoboth]

People often don't appreciate that once a process starts where people give depositions (and there are many ways such a process might start here),  things can begin to snowball. This has the potential for catastrophe, for Jimmy, KIm, Chuck, and Howard, and even all of HHM's employees, and even HHM's clients (having your legal work being done by a firm with a mentally ill partner, with the other partner allowing him to continue to have a management role, produces all kinds of potential exposure. Yikes). HHM's continued existence might be threatened.

 

Which is why Chuck should let sleeping dogs lie.  Mesa Verde is not coming back to HHM after the way Chuck handled the "mistake."  There is nothing for Chuck to get out of this except to "win" over Jimmy.  There is much more to lose.  Things could go very bad for Chuck and HHM if Chuck pushes things out into the open.  There had been much talk about Jimmy reverting to type and behaving like a conman - a loose cannon, if you will.  Chuck is reverting to type as well.  He can't stop himself from going after Jimmy.

 

I don't think Jimmy knew how his document sullying would play out - maybe it would be found out before they got to any filings.  But he was sure about how Chuck would react because Jimmy, unlike Chuck, is a good study of people.  Jimmy knew that Chuck would over-react and take things from bad to worse.

[Bannon]

Which is why Chuck should let sleeping dogs lie.  Mesa Verde is not coming back to HHM after the way Chuck handled the "mistake."  There is nothing for Chuck to get out of this except to "win" over Jimmy.  There is much more to lose.  Things could go very bad for Chuck and HHM if Chuck pushes things out into the open.  There had been much talk about Jimmy reverting to type and behaving like a conman - a loose cannon, if you will.  Chuck is reverting to type as well.  He can't stop himself from going after Jimmy.

 

I don't think Jimmy knew how his document sullying would play out - maybe it would be found out before they got to any filings.  But he was sure about how Chuck would react because Jimmy, unlike Chuck, is a good study of people.  Jimmy knew that Chuck would over-react and take things from bad to worse.

Yep, Jimmy knows how to push buttons, for good or ill. I think Chuck's dead, or permenantly incapacitated, and Jimmy will be pushing Howard's buttons next. Putting humor around Chuck's grim circumstaces isn't an easy thing to do, but it was pretty funny last season when Jimmy was poking Howard with a stick, so I sort of hope they go in that direction again.

[LoneHaranguer]

 

Chuck just lost consciousness when attempting to get to the bottom of one of his clients being the victim of a forgery.

Technically it was Chuck and HHM that was victimized. Chuck's error and HHM's failure to spot it means that they're on the hook for any expenses.