S05.E17: Her Handsome Hero

[kili]

I had to roll my eyes at the "Gaston was an asshole the whole time" thing. So its totally ok that Rumple killed him! Between Rumple and Regina, half this show is parading random people who have been murdered, or watched their families get murdered, and explaing why they totally had it coming.

I can't wait to find out what the unlucky Groomsman and the Mute Maid did. The Groomsman was probably a serial wife killer who had to get married in a field because no church would have him. All the bride's family begged her not to marry him, but she believed in his true heart. Regina did her and her entire family a solid favour when she killed him on his wedding day. Meanwhile, I'm sure the Mute Maid killed small children and sold them for spare parts when she wasn't cleaning Rumple's house. 

 

The Ogre wars both pre-date and post-date Gaston. They were going on during Rumple's time, Belle's time and current times. What caused the Ogres to infest the EF when everybody was asleep? Blaming Gaston of all the Ogre wars seems to be reaching. 

[Chaos Theory]

I actually enjoyed the episode. For the first time in awhile I didn't hate Rumple. I liked the story of Gaston and Belle. Although predictable I liked that it was Belle who pushed Gadton into the river of souls. Honestly I think my problem with the couple is the lying and the fact that they (usually Rumple) are not honest about who they are and what they want. It would be at least interesting to see a darker version of Belle for awhile.

[ParadoxLost]

Its more or less a given now that freeing the souls tormented in the River will be part of defeating Hades.

 

The problem I have wih Belle is not a reflexive tossing of Gaston in the River, its that she sought comfort with Rumple and was so fast to find the silver lining in that it fulfilled Hades deal to remove the mark (that was Rumple's doing) from the baby and then got pissy about Hades holding her and Rumple to he exact terms of the deal.

 

The only thing about Hades I like is that he keeps making Rumple karma's bitch.

Edited April 11, 2016 by ParadoxLost

[Randomosity]

I'm so not invested in this show right now. I'd love to be, but between boring episodes and stupid episodes, they're not giving me much to work with. This ep could not hold my attention.

Plus I feel like Killian is... off. I mean fair enough, he's dead, but something is still not right in how he's acting/being acted by Colin. Cruella is fine being herself even dead, and the blind witch, and whoever. Why is he not being himself? Takes even more away from my dwindling interest.

[Artsda]

Belle's so pathetic, she should have held onto the dagger and not kill Gaston. 

 

Gaston > Rumple. She finds out more lies from Rumple and she's still in his arms by the end of the episode. She has no backbone at all.

[scenicbyway]

I'm so not invested in this show right now. I'd love to be, but between boring episodes and stupid episodes, they're not giving me much to work with. This ep could not hold my attention.

Plus I feel like Killian is... off. I mean fair enough, he's dead, but something is still not right in how he's acting/being acted by Colin. Cruella is fine being herself even dead, and the blind witch, and whoever. Why is he not being himself? Takes even more away from my dwindling interest.

I hear ya, my interest in dwindling, this plot is going no where, slowly.

I thought Hook's enunciation was off in the vault and the library, like has was dragging out his lines with more of an English accent? I also think the hair is at ridiculous levels with the length. It doesn't help that he and Emma have been in crisis mode all season, if this continues to the end of the season, we will have watched this crisis play out for a year. That's too long to be entertaining.

[Shanna Marie]

It is interesting that Belle learns Gaston tortured an ogre and she's all "you're a monster!" and wants nothing to do with him. But she knows Rumple nearly flayed a man alive (repeatedly), beat her father almost to death (since she said her father forgave him, I'm assuming she knows why), murdered his first wife and cut off a man's hand, she watched him beat Hook almost to death and as Lacey watched him beat the Sheriff of Nottingham (almost?) to death (and didn't he rip out his tongue?), and she watched him nearly crush Hook's heart. And goodness knows how many other things she either knows he did or watched him do, and yet he still has a good heart and is worth sticking with.

[Frozendiva]

My interest is dwindling. The show needs to move forward a bit. It's not like it's the 1001 stories of the Arabian Nights. The fairy tale characters and scenarios are running dry. Maybe we'll get Mickey and Minnie soon.

 

My memories of Gaston are his song in the Disney and Broadway/West End musical, him gazing lovingly at himself in the mirror, and him ending up in the pig slop. And marching up the castle with the villagers to destroy the Beast. He didn't get his own way. Boohoo. Him, Belle, and Rumple may need a visit to the slop. Unless Belle goes dark, she's useless. Rumple has show you who he is, girl. Believe that.

 

Nothing spells romance like a dried-up dead flower.

[MaiLuna]

I was kinda understanding Belle until the last scene. Throwing Gaston over was totally a mistake, but then she just hugs Rumpel and gives him the dagger back? WTH. This character makes no sense any more. And Gaston died trying to save Belle the first time, that could've been mentioned too. And he failed miserably given how she still mentions how she's married to him. And now they're back together? 

 

At least Regina is still being likeable. I liked the B plot of her, Emma, Snow and Hook. I liked delving into Emma's issues, but I'm just never gonna be satsfied with the Emma/Snow relationship. I need more. How could Emma not feel guilty when her mom said last episode "when will we go home, Emma?". I'm happy Snow put Emma first this time but it bothers me that it seems she loves Neal more, since she's fighting so hard to get back to him but in the missing year she didn't even mention missing Emma. I had forgotten Ruby was in this episode, nice ending there. But next episode looks like quite a filler. 

[Watt]

I'm not seeing how this Killian is any different than the actual Killian. He doesn't seem out of character to me.

[Rumsy4]

It is interesting that Belle learns Gaston tortured an ogre and she's all "you're a monster!" and wants nothing to do with him. But she knows Rumple nearly flayed a man alive (repeatedly), beat her father almost to death (since she said her father forgave him, I'm assuming she knows why), murdered his first wife and cut off a man's hand, she watched him beat Hook almost to death and as Lacey watched him beat the Sheriff of Nottingham (almost?) to death (and didn't he rip out his tongue?), and she watched him nearly crush Hook's heart. And goodness knows how many other things she either knows he did or watched him do, and yet he still has a good heart and is worth sticking with.

Taking this to the Belle thread.

[CheshireCat]

I think the most hilarious part of the episode must have been Belle's "what have I done" followed right by "I guess you're right, darkness always wins". Saying one after the other made absolutely no sense.

 

And I guess they've given the Disney Hercules story to Hades - his love being his (only) weakness. They even used a line from Hercules - people do crazy things when they're in love.

 

And it's definitely a pity that Rumple and Belle got the A plot and the others the B plot.

[thuganomics85]

No one fights like Gaston!  Douses lights like Gaston!  Gets damned to eternal torture by his ex like Gaston!  Maybe he'll meet Milah in the sea of Hell or whatever, and they can team up to take on that pesky Rumpbelle!

 

So, yeah, I guess it was only a matter of time before they bring him back into the fold.  The whole backstory was by the numbers and boring, but then again, Belle herself is boring, so that really held no surprise.  Of course, he would end up being an asshole, of course the incident with that particular Ogre would end up starting the big war, and of course Belle was more or less forced into that marriage arrangement.  So, you see?!  Rumple kidnapping her and forcing her to be his slave eons ago, was a good thing!  He's a hero!  Sure, a kidnapping scumbag, but the hero Belle needed!

 

All of this might at least be fun if Belle was just embracing the darkness and going along with them.  I'd might get behind these two if they were just a selfish, evil couple from hell, only out for themselves.  Instead, Belle keeps thinking their some kind of goodness in him and stays with him because..... I don't know, really.  What is wrong with her?  The fact they are still a pair makes no sense to me.

 

As soon as I saw Meghan Ory's name in the credits, I knew Ruby/Red was going to end up being the monster.  I'm thrilled to see her, but I hope there is another reason she's in Underbrooke, because I would hate it if she died too, and is just being set-up to go to the "better place" too.

 

I know I was suppose to take Emma doubting herself and questioning bringing everyone with her as a sign she was losing it, but when she mention why did she bring Henry, I still think "Yes, that did seem like a reckless decision there, Emma."

 

Since I just saw Zootopia this week, there were a few times I felt like Snow sounded like Judy Hopps.

 

I did love Regina's attempt to "bond" with Zelena, and how quickly Zelena was like "Sister-bonding my ass!   You just want dirt on Hades, huh?"

 

Props to Greg Germann, because every time Hades said "baby", I felt my skin crawl for a few seconds.

[KingOfHearts]

The Belle/Gaston dialogue that was supposed to be romantic seemed too modern to me. I was hoping for something a little closer to Jane Austen than what we got.

[kili]

It is interesting that Belle learns Gaston tortured an ogre and she's all "you're a monster!" and wants nothing to do with him.

And when she asked him to, Gaston let the Ogre go free (he did listen to her plea just because it was her plea - she convinced Rumple to let Robin go free because she was able to show him that he was like Rumple - not for her sake (when she asked him not to, he just planted her in the ground so she would have to watch I'm kill Robin)). That bit of mercy was paid back by a full on attack by the Ogres. Belle seems completely unconcerned that the breaching of the frontier likely meant the death of many people, she only wants to make sure that nobody blames her - they should blame Gaston. She then agrees to marry Gaston so that his men can also be killed by the Ogres. Belle's mother is subsequently killed by those same Ogres. 

 

I've always known that Belle has kind of a warped sense of morality, but this episode featured some whoppers.

 

I'm not even sure why she pushed Gaston into the water. She had just watched her husband repeatedly avoid the arrows. Gaston may not be the sharpest arrow in the quiver and not figured it out already, but she knows Rumple's mad magical skills. Rumple is not going to get hit by an arrow unless he is a mannequin (was it just me, or did that mannequin look more like Gaston than Rumple...i thought that was telling). Just tell Rumple to poof all those arrows in the water and be done with it. 

 

Did Belle ever check the Ogre's eyes or does she not understand that two people in a situation can be evil? Even if Gaston was a torturer, it does not mean that the Ogre wasn't scouting the place to kill them all.

 

Belle's dad might want to fix up his kingdom a little so that there aren't massive holes people can just fall into. That thing was a death trap.

 

I know I'm not supposed to be doing this, but I'm thoroughly enjoying Hades getting the upper hand in a deal with Rumple. He's done that to enough people.

[Rumsy4]

I think the most hilarious part of the episode must have been Belle's "what have I done" followed right by "I guess you're right, darkness always wins". Saying one after the other made absolutely no sense.

Yeah--what was that about? Is she saying she did something Dark? Or is she giving in to Rumple's conditions because being a hero doesn't pay after all?

[blugirlami21]

I just can't with Belle, she's so stupid. She makes no sense. Does she understand that Rumple is evil or not? She acts like he turned into this dark person one day and she was totally blindsided when in fact he was the dark one at the beginning, middle, and end of your relationship. Either accept it or move on.

That being said I hate how Rumple tries to justify being evil by saying you have to do evil things to protect the people you love. What? If that was the case everyone would be a dark one, idiot. You choosing to do the wrong thing every time is not what that means.

I too am happy that those two are being screwed by hades at every turn. Why would they think he would uphold the deal when Belle rejected it? Rumple the king of deals should have known better than that.

This was the worst episode for me. I have zero interest in Rumbelle or their backstories. A whole episode about them is like watching paint dry.

Edited April 11, 2016 by blugirlami21

[KingOfHearts]

I thought ogres were just CGI beasts. Are the writers telling us they have feelings and legitimate reasons for fighting now? There's good ones too? It smells of retcon to me and I don't like it. That poor, defenseless ogre in 2x03 was shot by Snow just like Gaston was going to. All those children sent into the Ogre Wars by the Duke wouldn't have to go if the evil humans saw it was all just a misunderstanding. Give me a break.

 

One positive thing about the episode - I did like the flashback costumes on Belle, Maurice (on his horse) and Gaston.

Edited April 11, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Curio]

What I've gathered from this show—and especially this episode—is that any time you try to seek revenge on someone who has A) attempted to murder you, and/or B) was successful in murdering you, you're actually a more evil person than the original person who did the wrongdoing, even if that original murderer doesn't apologize at all for their actions, and you deserve to have a terrible and painful eternal death. I have a feeling the Morality thread is going to be pretty popular this week.
 

Did the show really edit the new Gaston actor into the previously ons?

Thank you! I thought I was going crazy there for a second. It definitely looked like they re-shot specific scenes with the new actor for the previous scenes.
 

This week on "Once Upon a Time in Offscreenville," Hook told Belle about Liam. It was a nice moment. Probably.

Oh no, it's a touching character-building moment! Better shove that sucker off to Offscreenville...
  

You know, if you want to get technical, Rumple only turned Gaston into a rose. Belle was the one who killed him when she cut the rose to put in a vase.

Did she? I was always under the impression that Rumple turning Gaston into a rose is what killed him, and Belle snipping the stem off was a metaphor for...ahem...the equivalent of taking away the precious jewels.
 

I'm pretty sure I will be in the minority (or the only one) here, but I think a darker Belle would be interesting, as up to now she has been rather one note goody two shoes and thus a bit dull.

I think there's quite a few of us who'd rather see a darker Belle, but what has us so pessimistic about it is that we don't see the show sticking to its guns and keeping her that way. I would love it if they finally had her admit that she's failed at being a hero for so long because she secretly likes being a villain more, but I think they're going to stubbornly stick to Belle as a good guy who must always tame the Beast.
 

I was literally disgusted. Who wrote this episode?

Jerome Schwartz
 

Does anyone find Killian's reaction to the squiggly lines rude now? Yeah, no hopefully or maybes with that plan.

Heh, right? (Before the episode aired...) Killian is so rude! (After the episode aired...) Oh, he was totally right.
 

Is Robin still in the Underworld?

He and Pistachio are apparently camping out in the woods, because that's the "safest spot" for them. Also, that's the same woods where Ruby the wolf was running around. Ah yes, so safe.
 

Why then is Belle on her own adventure trying defeat Hades and Rumple? Shouldn't Charming and Robin at least be her wingmen? This makes no sense that Emma, Snow and Killian would be off trying to destroy the stones if Belle's baby was in jeopardy! Why is no one hanging out with Belle?!

Charming and Robin couldn't team up with Belle because the writers are allergic to interesting and new character combinations. Also, they don't care at all for writing Charming and Robin. And the main characters barely ever hang out with Belle even in Storybrooke, so why would they start helping her now?
 

I'm not seeing how this Killian is any different than the actual Killian. He doesn't seem out of character to me.

Yeah, I don't see anything drastically different in Colin's acting. In fact, I would say this episode is a return to his normal personality because all the other Underworld episodes for Killian have been total angst and torture 24/7. But I guess he currently doesn't have a heart at the moment, so maybe that's what people are seeing?
 

Did Belle ever check the Ogre's eyes or does she not understand that two people in a situation can be evil? Even if Gaston was a torturer, it does not mean that the Ogre wasn't scouting the place to kill them all.

But see, that would have actually introduced some grey morality here instead of just black and white (if you can even call it that) nonsense.

Edited April 11, 2016 by Curio

[chrisvee]

Ugh. Just...ugh. They have destroyed Belle.

Zelena and Hades falling in love followed by Rumbelle dysfunction followed by a centric for characters I barely remember.

What a yawn fest.

Did Hook say 'sorry love' to Regina???

Edited April 11, 2016 by chrisvee

[CheshireCat]

Rumsy4, on 11 Apr 2016 - 12:31 AM, said:

Yeah--what was that about? Is she saying she did something Dark? Or is she giving in to Rumple's conditions because being a hero doesn't pay after all?

 

My guess would be it's got to do with what Rumple said to Belle, that Hades wanted it to be Belle who throws Gaston into the river. Hades wants to eliminate hope, so he needs to crush the heros spirit. And Belle seems to be an easy mark (which is strange considering how fiercely she always believed in Rumple...) It still doesn't make sense that she goes straight from saying one thing to the other. (and, of course, there's also the fact that she could have shoved Gaston sideways and that that would have made way more sense...)

[InsertWordHere]

 

Does anyone find Killian's reaction to the squiggly lines rude now? Yeah, no hopefully or maybes with that plan.

Yes, I am going to eat my words about Killian's unhelpfulness at the library in the sneak peek we were shown before the episode aired. I never thought he was rude, just a bit ungrateful. He definitely came off better in the context of the episode.

 

I think this episode also got his character back on track. Supporting Emma, immediately saying he's going with Emma, inexplicably stating he's survived worse when he's dead, hating to agree with Regina but doing so anyway, getting Emma to open up after she inexplicably says she has no issues (oh Emma!), complementing everyone's "nice shots." This is the Hook I like to see. I didn't realize until I saw a slowed down gif on tumblr that all three women had hit poor Red. 

[Camera One]

So the problem they had heading into this episode is that Belle couldn't trust Rumple because he just betrayed her and everyone... again.

 

How do we fix that?  I know, make Belle kill someone too!  "I would NEVER resort to Darkness," Belle declared at the start of the episode.  "You're going to eat those words," the Writers said.  

 

Hey, but make sure that person who Belle has to kill is shown having the eyes of a demon and tortures poor innocent ogres.  Because that makes him so much more deserving of death than Mr. Flay Someone Alive Multiple Times.

 

And after killing that person, Belle will realize that Rumple was right all along, and sometimes a little Darkness goes a long way. Even though this does NOTHING to justify what Rumple did to Hook in the 5A finale, or what Rumple tried to do to Emma and everyone in town in 4A and 4B.  

 

So now, the audience should be okay with Belle and Rumple being together again?  Because now Belle is pretty much as evil as Rumple, right, and can totally see things from his perspective?

 

The morality is just so messed up, to a whole new level... hey, who knew that was possible.

 

I can't just pick on Belle, because some of Rumple's lines were so arrogant and self-entitled.  They made Belle so pathetic... one example was when the Writers needed Belle to beg Rumple to pick the lock for her.  

 

So they gave up on having Henry try to figure out Hades' secret story with Zelena?  Then in this episode, Zelena told Regina herself, so what the hell was the point of Henry's subplot last episode?

 

When did the whole "burn the names off the tombstone" and "squiggly lines to open the elevator" plans come from?  Charming said they had the element of surprise.  Uh, didn't Liam say Hades has eyes everywhere?  Apparently, Hades hears every single conversation, so I'm SURE you can surprise him by using an elevator.  And what are you all going to do when you confront him exactly?

 

Hades' sadface looking at Zelena was so fake.

 

So Belle's beloved mother agrees that she should be married against her will.  I see why they're so close.

 

Belle's kingdom alone has so many magical objects?  And the Mirror is an hour away and no one has taken possession of it?  

 

Gaston said Belle made him weak.  So did he regret torturing the Ogre?  He repented?  

 

On a bright note, I really liked the scenes with Emma and Snow in the vault.  They were nice.  And I'm happy to see Red again even though... what the hell.  The Writers had no more ideas for where the plot can go from here, so they need to bring in ANOTHER visitor to the World of the Dead?  By the end of the season, everyone can be done here, and they can do something about the air pollution and do some greening projects to make Underbrooke livable.

Edited April 11, 2016 by Camera One

[Emma]

I don't like Rumple but I would have loved him forever if he would have pushed Belle into the river of lost souls. I just can't with that character.

[kili]

So now, the audience should be okay with Belle and Rumple being together again?  Because now Belle is pretty much as evil as Rumple, right, and can totally see things from his perspective?

I don't think the writers were trying to show us that Belle is evil. They were trying to show us that Rumple only does evil things to protect the ones he loves and that's means his actions are not really evil - he is forced into the situations. They had always-good Belle learn that lesson as an illustration to the audience so that they could learn too. Belle didn't mean to kill evil Gaston (who did evil things because he was a red-eyed devil who just liked doing evil - things like torturing children and trying to get revenge on the guy that killed him), but she had to to save poor Rumple who was only trying to shove Gaston into the bay to save their baby. 

 

Only, she Rumple was never really in any danger, she didn't need to push Gaston into the water and Rumple is cheerfully being evil with no plans on stopping - and he's done plenty of evil things without the excuse of trying to save the ones he loves. 

 

So, the entire point seems kind of muddied.

[Camera One]

They were trying to show us that Rumple only does evil things to protect the ones he loves and that's means his actions are not really evil - he is forced into the situations. They had always-good Belle learn that lesson as an illustration to the audience so that they could learn too.

 

Yes, well put.  I was just speaking in hyperbole.  The episode was designed to make Rumple seem the voice of reason while knocking Belle down a peg.  She's the one who has to learn a lesson.

Edited April 11, 2016 by Camera One

[KAOS Agent]

Yet another centric episode that features a main and her guest starring friends/family. These episodes really, really drag for me even when they feature characters I like. At least Gaston was hot. That's the first clue he's going to die. Hot male guest stars are the red shirts of this show. Still bitter they killed Gus Gus.

 

Notes:

 

- So five minutes into the episode, Belle's saying that she'll never use Darkness because that's not what heroes do. Such a shock when she pushed Gaston into the bay. Never saw that coming.

 

- That coat didn't hide Emilie's pregnancy at all. My favorite part was when she actually arched her back and pushed her stomach out further when she was arguing with Rumpel about the locker.

 

- Speaking of, wow did I hate the locker argument. Yes, Rumpel was right, but he was being an asshole about it and she was just as annoying.

 

- You guys want to know why no one hangs out with Belle? Because they end up dead or hatted or stuck in the River of Lost Souls suffering for all eternity. Just stay away from Belle.

 

- I love Emma "I don't have any issues" Swan. No one was buying that, honey.

 

- If Ruby showed up via twister, can't Emma just erase everyone's names from the tombstones and then have Zelena conjure up a twister to take them out of there?

 

- I am deeply annoyed that the actual plot about everyone being stuck in the Underworld got about five minutes of screen time. This story is going nowhere fast. 

[Camera One]

And then it's going to go somewhere really really really fast.  Stay tuned.

 

And for an alternate view of this episode, check out this review:

http://www.avclub.com/tvclub/her-handsome-hero-showcases-belle-once-upon-times--235062

Edited April 11, 2016 by Camera One

[Curio]

And for an alternate view of this episode, check out this review:

http://www.avclub.com/tvclub/her-handsome-hero-showcases-belle-once-upon-times--235062

 

I really try my hardest to respect everyone's opinions and interpretations, especially if you attempt to back up your theories with canon and quotes. But I'm sorry, how can you call Belle the best hero on the show after that episode? She pushed her ex-fiancé into a terrible place worse than death instead of, oh I don't know...just pushing him aside onto the concrete. There was plenty of room for Belle to just shove Gaston aside and keep him out of the river, but she knew exactly what she was doing because of the contract she was trying to get out of. That's not heroic, that's cowardice.

Edited April 11, 2016 by Curio

[janett snakehole]

Yes, I am going to eat my words about Killian's unhelpfulness at the library in the sneak peek we were shown before the episode aired. I never thought he was rude, just a bit ungrateful. He definitely came off better in the context of the episode.

 

I'm so glad that in context it was much better. I was worried about it, but it was followed up with him saying he believes in Emma so that was nice.

 

The B plot with Emma/Hook/Snow was nice enough, more interesting than the main plot (not by much), but it made them look silly. The dream premonition coming true and freaking Emma out makes sense, but then they were just hiding in the vault for hours? They had no plan (whats new?). Indefinite camp out I guess. lol And Regina just walking in means they didn't even barricade the door. It was all a convoluted way to introduce Ruby. Maybe it was also intended to introduce Emma's precognitive abilities if that's something that will be continued. 

[InsertWordHere]

The dream premonition coming true and freaking Emma out makes sense, but then they were just hiding in the vault for hours? They had no plan (whats new?).

Yes, it would have been better if they'd inadvertently discovered some key to defeating Hades while hiding inside the vault. They didn't even end up burning the names off the headstones. Maybe they could have discovered how to do that while in the crypt so it wasn't just Emma knowing she could do it because she did it in her dream, but the dream guiding her to the solution of how to burn the names.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

So show...In Underbrooke nothing grows except a bunch of trees and ferns in the forest.

It's okay as long as they're hopeless and decaying trees and ferns.

[jzygayle]

I actually enjoyed this episode.  A lot.  Especially the end.

But that's mostly because Gaston was TOTALLY Ted Cruz in my head.

Very satisfying ending 

[Randomosity]

Yeah, I don't see anything drastically different in Colin's acting. In fact, I would say this episode is a return to his normal personality because all the other Underworld episodes for Killian have been total angst and torture 24/7. But I guess he currently doesn't have a heart at the moment, so maybe that's what people are seeing?

I guess I'm in the minority, but to expand on my comment before, Killian just seems so not into anything they do. Like a teenager forced along on family outings who then puts up a good front of having fun for the sake of not having their iphone taken away but isn't actually enjoying anything. Just going through the motions because there's no other option. Like the squiggly lines quip, came across to me as "I'm supposed to be clever and snarky here, so I guess I'll say something clever and snarky." Makes sense for having no heart and being dead, I suppose.

Again, sounds like it's just me. Perhaps I should watch again since I already admitted I was less than captivated by/invested in this ep. Maybe I misinterpreted, though I don't think the issue is only this episode. Maybe I'm still in WTF-mode regarding Hook since the Liam episode?

Edited April 11, 2016 by Randomosity

[Ailianna]

I was stunned at Belle's arrogance in assuming that Hades would honor a bargain that SHE REJECTED.  I didn't expect the nitpicking to be the weasel out--I thought it would be that she literally turned him down.  So even if they lived up to all the terms, and Rumple had sent Gaston into the soul river (weird sentence!), it would still not count since she said no.  Makes Belle look even dumber than everything else in this episode did.  And she looked plenty dumb in this episode.

[MDKNIGHT]

For years now I've been telling everybody who would listen that Belle is Clareta Petache (young mistress of Mussolini who stuck by him even unto getting captured and executed by the allies with him at the end of WWII).  I thought she couldn't sink any lower in my eyes.  I was wrong. She is now Eva Braun.  Clartta mostly stuck by her sociopathic murderous lover, Eva IIRC actually participated in Hitler's evil,  Belle is doing evil things and now she and her husband have unfairly condemned people to eternal torment which is worse than murder.  I want both of them off my screen.  Not even the great acting by Rumple's actor can make me stomach him anymore and Belle's actress isn't even that good in my opinion so the character's awfulness never was enjoyable.  At this point anything less than both of them going into the eternal torment water will be unjust.  I will settle for both of them being trapped in Hades when everybody else gets to go home.  But I want them to be in torment ,not Rumple taking Hade's job which I think is within possibilities for  this show.

 

I hope Ruby isn't dead.

[Mrs OldManBalls]

I really like Hades coat. 

[andromeda331]

Oh, Emma, you do have issues. So many of them starting from being sent through the wardrobe up

to arriving in the Underworld after the whole Dark one business. Not that the Writers will ever address

them but you do have issues.

[chrisvee]

Since the flower died as a result of Belle's actions, I think the show's POV is that doing bad things on behalf of the ones you love are still bad things.

Edited April 11, 2016 by chrisvee

[profdanglais]

I have loads of thoughts about Belle in this ep, which I shall take to her thread. Meanwhile:

 

Nevengers, good. I liked that Snow does seem to be back, that Emma acknowledged how irresponsible it was to take her teenaged child to the Underworld, that Hook again is always, always, always on her side, no matter what. The few nanoseconds of CS interaction were really sweet. 

 

Gaston could have been a much more interesting character. For a while there, I thought he would be. Then came the ogre-torture and the forced marriaging, and now he's just a cardboard-cutout bad guy who totally deserves to spend eternity as a lost soul. Sigh. 

 

Count me as one who would prefer to see a darker Belle. Not because I want Belle to be dark, but because I find it so, so tiresome to watch her be duped again and again and again, due to her delusional refusal to see Rumple for who he is. I like Rumple owning his Dark-One-ness and I wouldn't be against seeing Belle embrace her attraction to dark power.

 

I'm also tired of seeing Rumple pretend-change. At least this development will (maybe? possibly?) shake up the tired Rumbelle dynamic. 

[YaddaYadda]

Nevengers, good. I liked that Snow does seem to be back, that Emma acknowledged how irresponsible it was to take her teenaged child to the Underworld, that Hook again is always, always, always on her side, no matter what. The few nanoseconds of CS interaction were really sweet.

 

This is why this show should NEVER cut relevant scenes, like the one where both Emma and Regina tell Henry he's not going with them, and he tells them he will, or he will find a way to make it there on his own, and they know he will. Nothing works like threatening your mothers!

 

About Gaston, obviously, torture is a horrible/horrifying thing that I am personally absolutely against. And the writers knew exactly what they were doing because I'm like well he was an asshole, and considering how long the ogres have been at it, which is centuries, then does that make him completely evil?

 

I mean Rumple has done far, far, FAR worse, and yet this show treats him like he's never done any of that, and his wife loves every part of him, including the really gross ones. 

 

The expectations this show has of someone it considers a hero is really warped, and they set the bar high for those people. You're not allowed to kill, you're not allowed to side eye someone, you're not really allowed to call them out, and you have to accept them even though they're a dick because they're family.

 

The bar isn't nearly as high for someone like Rumple because everyone expects him to backslide, and he sets no bar for himself because he really doesn't give a fuck. Belle? I don't really know what to say about Belle other than sometimes people sacrifice for the greater good, because the greater good does matter. See episode 5x11 and how Emma and Killian sacrificed for the greater good, but that sacrifice meant nothing because Rumple decided that the darkness shouldn't go anywhere but back in him. Darkness won out because the sacrifice was nullified.

[LucidDreamer]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....

Oh, was this show on?

I really checked out half-way through. I mean, I watched the entire thing, but why?

Used to love this show, but it continues its descent into ... the Underworld.

Also, I HATE what the show has done to the Belle character. My favorite Disney character trampled, re-imagined (in an awful way), and reduced to the worst sort of stupid. Ugh. I've never liked the presentation of Belle on this show -- and what IS it about everyone having to be royal? Belle in the story and orig. Disney film were definitely NOT -- but now it has really gone too far. This is NOT Belle. Nope. Not even close.

[Curio]

I think knowing the spoiler about Belle pushing Gaston into the water before the episode aired made me dislike Belle even more while watching it live because I knew exactly what was going to happen at the end. I could imagine giving her more sympathy if I didn't know the "twist" was coming and thought she was being genuine the entire episode before the big shove, but every time she opened her mouth and said something about wanting to be heroic or help Gaston out any way she could, my mind kept saying, "Wow, you're really selling yourself on this lie aren't you."

Edited April 11, 2016 by Curio

[Anakerie]

Oh for...at this point I'm rooting for Hades to get his hands on Baby Blimp.  Blimp has to be better off being raised by him than by his/her/its miserable excuse for parents. Fly free, little Blimp...

[Curio]

Oh for...at this point I'm rooting for Hades to get his hands on Baby Blimp.  Blimp has to be better off being raised by him than by his/her/its miserable excuse for parents. Fly free, little Blimp...

 

The sad thing is that this could apply to both babies who are in limbo in the Underworld right now. This also made me realize we don't have an official forum name for Rumple and Belle's baby. Pistachio and Snowflake/Do-Over have won over most people, anyone want to add onto the list started here?

[Primetimer]

Once Upon A Time revises the Beauty And The Beast story some more, as Belle learns it's hard to be good all the time when you're literally in Hell.

Read the story

[Camera One]

Can Henry just find out what a douche his grandpa is so he can apologize to his mom (the sane one.) for thinking she's worse than that monster? I'll never forgive him for that.

 

I was thinking about this, and it's no wonder they had zero other characters involved in the main plot this episode at all. 

 

What would Henry say?  That pushing Gaston in the river made Belle not a hero anymore?  Would Mary Margaret say she took the "easy" way?  Belle supposedly talked to Hook since her arrival.  What would he say about what happened in this episode? 

 

Any one of them would have pointed out that just because Gaston tried to kill Rumple does NOT mean that Belle should go back to Rumple.  Next episode, will everyone just be okay with Belle choosing Rumple again?  I suppose they wouldn't even notice, like when Belle was kidnapped in Camelot and no one batted an eye or mentioned she was missing.

Edited April 11, 2016 by Camera One

[Curio]

Belle supposedly talked to Hook since her arrival. What would he say about what happened in this episode?

 

Hook would say, "Hey Belle, remember when I was hell-bent on killing Rumple—I still kind of want to kill him by the way. Did he fill you in on what he did to me and Emma a few days ago when he made my sacrifice worth nothing? Or did he conveniently forget to tell you that tidbit like he did with the whole killing your fiancé business?—and actually poisoned him briefly with my hook; therefore, I was more successful than Gaston at causing damage to your husband? Yeah, I'm still alive and kicking. Are you going to push me into the deathly water, too?"

[Chaos Theory]

I am not overly concerned with continuity or morality when it comes to this show. If you read too much into both it would drive you mad. There is only so much the show can do to "redeem" a character unless they turn the show into L&O Storybrooke Maine. My guess when it comes to Gaston is that he was never a good person to begin with. Plus the show has almost constant take on revenge....dig two graves. Revenge never makes you a good guy but forgiveness and acceptance (of both the person who harmed you and yourself) does.

I actually like Rumple and Belle's story for the first time in forever because if anything else they seem to be on the same page. That might be interesting to watch.

[RadioGirl27]

I've never been a fan of Belle, but after this episode I just can't stand her. She is just too stupid and twisted for my liking. The scenes with Snow, Emma and Hook were great (I loved the little moment with Killian fixing his hair with his hook after Regina's remark about his style), and I actually liked Regina. But the rest was really meh. Oh, and even with what he did to the ogre, Gaston was still a better person that Rumple (and Belle). Not a good person, but better than them.

Edited April 11, 2016 by RadioGirl27