S12.E17: I Wear The Face

[Joana]

 (Plus, I thought the only reason she inherited the Avery empire was because her husband died??).

 

 

I'm confused by this as well. How did she get to remain an Avery if her divorce was so ugly?

 

Stephanie saying she got screwed over because another fellow decided to apply for a grant is ridiculous.

 

 

Especially considering she was clearly shown to have no qualms with lying and elbowing in order to get ahead.

She lost all my sympathy when she went all psycho on Jo at the infamous dinner party at Meredith's when she was just trying to be nice to her. She can be screwed over whenever as far as I'm concerned. 

 

As for Kevin McKidd, I first watched him on HBO's Rome. His character there was also dark and troubled, but was played SO much better than this rage-filled mess here. I wouldn't miss Owen at all if he left. 

Edited April 8, 2016 by Joana

[perkie1968]

 

I have three words for Meredith:  self-closing cupboard doors.

REally?  Because I was completely on the other side of that fence, thinking, Geez Amelia shut the effing door.  It takes two seconds of your life, not half an hour.  Your such a precious flower you can't be bothered shutting the door, especially since it annoys Meredith.  Hate Amelia.  

 

Owen has anger management issues.  Calm the F down, dude.  

[Apocalypse Cow]

I'm someone who doesn't shut cabinet doors. And it drives me crazy. But I never remember to shut them.

[GreysFan89]

Its so silly that a 3rd year resident would win a grant over 5th years and that the winner would be announced the same day everyone applied but whatever if it means bye bye Penny, I'll buy into it. lol Just hope she doesn't take Callie with her, the show needs to start holding on to its big characters and cutting the deadwood - Jo, Edwards, Ben, all of whom worse than disliking I am completely indifferent to. And I love the chief but think it'd be better if he was made a recurring character.

 

Anyhow ep was just a whole lot of filler, setting up the big drama and thrills ahead. lol

[candall]

I'm someone who doesn't shut cabinet doors. And it drives me crazy. But I never remember to shut them.

I had a little laugh a few minutes ago because I was surprised to notice one of my cabinet doors was open.

 

(Is that why the dogs are so huffy?)

[Primetimer]

Owen snaps at Riggs after an organ harvest goes awry, Penny snaps up a coveted grant, and April snaps after overhearing some ominous news.

Read the story

[dmc]

Owen sucks.  First he probably doesn't know the full deal with Riggs and his sister's relationship.  And second, who starts work in a new hospital and tells everyone about their affair (no one).  I can't blame Riggs for keeping that on the DL.  And three, even if Riggs was having an affair...Owen's sister's death is still not his fault.  Owen needs to leave or shut up. 

 

Grant...Obviously a plot device to get rid of someone...honestly I didn't care if Jo, Penny, or Stephanie left...so...also can people stop acting like it's a betrayal when people go for opportunities at work.  These opportunities do not belong to you, stop acting like they do. 

 

Jackson-April-baby  I hate April, I have never liked her.  I think she is whiny, annoying and for someone whose character is supposedly religious...the actual worst. In addition, she is also the worst decision maker on the planet.  The worst part of this plot is I actually do like Jackson.  And I would like to see him, far from this plot. 

 

Amelia-two steps forward, two steps back

[dmc]

So Riggs is a big fat cheater, too. Him and Owen are like two peas in a pod. 

 

I don't understand how a third year resident could win a grant over her fifth year peers. She's no wunderkind, she's no Lexie Grey. It's not enough that Penny has been all over this season and has high-jacked screentime and development from the majority of the characters, but now she is a grant winner too? I don't fault Stephanie for being annoyed with her, Penny's already stepped on Jo's toes when it comes to surgery. This isn't a bad thing if it takes Penny off of the show, but I don't want Callie to go out like that if Sara decides to leave. Callie and Penny are so awkward together and it has not been a good fit for Callie all season. 

 

Could April not have approached Jackson first before going full throttle? She's always at a ten, I need her to be at a four. I have a feeling that this dramatic miscommunication misunderstanding will lead to them getting back together at the end of the season. 

 

What happened to the Jolex story that Shonda said we were going to see? The story that was pushed back last season because of the Derek stuff? 

thank you has owen forgot he is also a cheater

Especially since he owns part of the hospital.

There are actually battered women who can't get restraining orders...explain to me how she got it approved with no evidence

[Qoass]

Guys, don't you get it???  The cabinet doors are a metaphor!!!!  Amelia keeps wanting to open up things that Meredith wants to close a door on!

 

Jeez, I feel like the only English major in the room.

[Artymouse]

The pregnancy/privacy thing is confusing to me. If the girl is 16, then she could potentially become an emancipated minor. I didn't think that was the case at 14. Besides which, if there were a life-threatening pregnancy complication, presumably the girl's mother would have to make medical decisions for her.

 

I agree that the Riggs/Hunt thing is getting tedious. I've always liked Hunt, but he's become more irritating and less interesting since Cristina left. And Riggs has begun to grow on me, so I hope he's vindicated when the sister inevitably shows up alive to tell her story.

 

Penny continues to irk me like no other TV character ever has -- like if you took Erica Hahn and Ava/Rebecca and Izzie at her most self-righteously obnoxious, and fused them into one super-character, it still wouldn't bug me as much as Penny. Callie is far too interesting a character (and SaRa too good an actress) to be saddled with a character, and actress, with all the appeal of a wet paper towel. That whole "drop the mic" speech made me cringe. But since we all seem to dislike Penny already, I'm glad the show let her be a shark about the grant application.

[Joana]

Guys, don't you get it???  The cabinet doors are a metaphor!!!!  Amelia keeps wanting to open up things that Meredith wants to close a door on!

 

Jeez, I feel like the only English major in the room.

 

Yes! Amelia is desperate for Meredith to let her in, while Meredith keeps shutting her out. Because Meredith is the Sun, and if Amelia doesn't get any of her light, she'll wither and die. Why, because the show said so. 

Edited April 8, 2016 by Joana

[NUguy514]

It seemed pretty clear to me that Penny applied for the magical grant after hearing Steph trash-talk her, so Steph brought that on herself and can sit the fuck down. Jo and her unwarranted, bitchy reaction can join. I also did not get the sense at all that Amelia machinated to get Penny the grant and be rid of her, and her "this is the attendings' lounge" response to Steph was perfect.

And oh my god, Kevin McKidd, SHUT UUUUUPPPPPPP!

Edited April 8, 2016 by NUguy514

[DearEvette]

i was willing to cut Penny some slack.  But this episode really makes me wonder what kinda crack is in the pipe those writers are smoking with this character.  Maybe if Samantha Sloyan was a more approachable actress then I could hand wave away some of the problems with her storyline.  But she isn't really a sympathetic actress in this case.  Her 'mic drop' speech was just bad, terrible, terribad. And who are all these people who are so impressed with her than she has them all recommending her?

 

I don't think Stephanie & Jo are necessarily upset that she won the grant, after all it is available for anyone to apply and at the start of the show they seemed to assume she was going to apply.  I think they were upset because in the end it looks like she was being shady about it.  Like she was purposely lying to them only to stealth apply.  Again, not a horrible thing on a professional level but I could see how they could feel skirty about it on a friendship level. 

 

I am not sure I am 100% certain that Owen knwos the truth about Riggs' marriage.  But even if it is true, it doesn't matter if Riggs was fucking the every Doctor without a border.  That is not the reason his wife died.  It is also not Riggs' fault that Amelia, a grown ass-woman, didn't tell him she was an addict.   I am so tired of Owen's anger at Riggs.  I do like the actor who plays Rigg's a lot.  His face when he realizes Amelia was an alcoholic was a great bit of non-verbal acting.

[OtterMommy]

I'm sorry if this has already been addressed, but I had a head scratcher with this episode, re: April and the restraining order.

 

I have very limited knowledge on this, but can you just go get a restraining order "just because"?  I was under the impression that there had to be some credible threat to warrant one.  What "credible threat" did April have?  She overheard a conversation, one that Jackson was not even a part of.  So, either in Shondaland, you can just get a restraining order, or April lied or at least GREATLY exaggerated something to get that order.

 

Otherwise, sort of a meh episode for me.  The only bright spot is that there is hope for Penny leaving.  Nothing against her, really, except the character hasn't hooked me in any way, her presence is just far too "convenient," and there are already too many characters on this show....

[aprilbabe]

I'm confused by this as well. How did she get to remain an Avery if her divorce was so ugly?

 

 

The original story they gave was Jackson father abandoned him and the Avery responsibility when Jackson was three. Im assuming Harper Avery was still running things at that time. If Jacksons dad is Harper Averys only son, then Jackson is the only one who can inherit it. If Catherine kept a good relationship with HA and he really liked her and trusted her, I could see how he would intrust her with the company, especially since he has no other children, and Catherine son (his grandson) is next to inherit it. He may look at Catherine as a daughter.

 

We don't know that Jacksons father is dead. He could be living it up in Mexico for all we know. I always wanted the show to explore the storyline of Jacksons dad showing up

[RachelKM]

I don't think Stephanie & Jo are necessarily upset that she won the grant, after all it is available for anyone to apply and at the start of the show they seemed to assume she was going to apply.  I think they were upset because in the end it looks like she was being shady about it.  Like she was purposely lying to them only to stealth apply.  Again, not a horrible thing on a professional level but I could see how they could feel skirty about it on a friendship level. 

 

I am not sure I am 100% certain that Owen knwos the truth about Riggs' marriage.  But even if it is true, it doesn't matter if Riggs was fucking the every Doctor without a border.  That is not the reason his wife died.  It is also not Riggs' fault that Amelia, a grown ass-woman, didn't tell him she was an addict.   I am so tired of Owen's anger at Riggs.  I do like the actor who plays Rigg's a lot.  His face when he realizes Amelia was an alcoholic was a great bit of non-verbal acting.

I think the perceived shadiness of professing at the start of the day to not intend to apply and then applying without mentioning it was definitely one of the reasons Stephanie and Jo were pissed. And, actually, in Jo's case I think that might have been the entire reason she was pissed.  But Stephanie was already pissy about Blake taking her role with Amelia and was seething over the perceived betrayal by Amelia in supporting Blake in anyway.  (Side note, my impression was that Amelia really did support Stephanie, and only put in a good word for Blake when asked. So I didn't see that as Amelia intentionally shipping Blake off to parts unknown.)  

 

Also, Stephanie has appeared to me to be the kind of person who presumes entitlement based on her perceived superiority.  She's supportive of others successes provided she's still more successful. In fairness to her, it seems that she is very competent and smart and her superiors have generally been pleased with her work.  But she's a snob and seems to consider herself above and apart from the other residents.  This attitude seemed evident to me before the Dillard comment and in her interactions with other residents, particularly Jo.   So I could see her encouraging Blake to apply comfortable in the assumption that it wouldn't matter since Blake, a third year, didn't have a chance.    In related news, HOW THE FUCK DID BLAKE COME OUT ON TOP????

 

As for Owen and Riggs, I agree that Owen doesn't know everything. Even assuming that his sister did call him just before the accident and told him Riggs was having an affair, there is no way Owen could know if that was any part of her decision to get on the transport helicopter since I'm sure she didn't call him during an emergency medical evac minutes before she disappeared.  And even if she was upset with Riggs over an affair, it doesn't necessarily negate anything Riggs said.  He still could have wanted to go in her stead and she still could have insisted on accompanying her patient.  All of those things can be true at the same time.

 

 

I'm sorry if this has already been addressed, but I had a head scratcher with this episode, re: April and the restraining order.

 

I have very limited knowledge on this, but can you just go get a restraining order "just because"?  I was under the impression that there had to be some credible threat to warrant one.  What "credible threat" did April have?  She overheard a conversation, one that Jackson was not even a part of.  So, either in Shondaland, you can just get a restraining order, or April lied or at least GREATLY exaggerated something to get that order.

 

Otherwise, sort of a meh episode for me.  The only bright spot is that there is hope for Penny leaving.  Nothing against her, really, except the character hasn't hooked me in any way, her presence is just far too "convenient," and there are already too many characters on this show....

I don't know much about restraining orders, except that whatever she got would have to be a temporary order which are usually only applicable for 21 or 30 days until an hearing can take place for a continued order. I cannot imagine what she said that would be sufficient, but it might have included his accosting her at work and sending his mother to manipulate and spy on her.   Yes, the former issue happened once on the immediate heels of his learning she was keeping the pregnancy from him and the latter had nothing to do with him, but maybe she characterized the incidents as harassment at work.

 

In any case, she's an idiot for assuming from a comment overheard by Catherine to someone other than Jackson that Jackson was planning to take her child.  When has Jackson ever agreed with his mother as to how to handle his personal life?  And even on the occasions in which he caved to her, it took more than a day to accomplish.  April had time to ask Jackson what he was doing and why without flying off the handle and launching a LEGAL preemptive strike. 

Edited April 8, 2016 by RachelKM

[gator12]

I don't know about Washington State one doesn't need any proof to provide a restraining order

There are different type of restraining order. Since it was admitted, that was a temporary restraining order which last 2 weeks.

April has a lawyer, who knows since she didn't leave the hospital since this all happen during their shift, she probably call her lawyer up told that lawyer what Catherine said and the lawyer recommended as a proactive step against Catherine's plan. April doesn't have a lot option when it comes to dealing with the Avery's money. 

[taanja]

Guys, don't you get it???  The cabinet doors are a metaphor!!!!  Amelia keeps wanting to open up things that Meredith wants to close a door on!

 

Jeez, I feel like the only English major in the room.

 Thank you! Like last week with the incessant cleaning --- it is a metaphor!

[Joana]

 (Side note, my impression was that Amelia really did support Stephanie, and only put in a good word for Blake when asked. so I didn't see that as Amelia intentionally shipping Blake off to parts unknown.)  

 

That's how I took it as well. Amelia endorsed her at first, but the others were supporting Penny and in the end she agreed with it. There's really not much she could have done about it. And her saying to Stephanie to GTFO (better phrased, of course) was more than appropriate.

Although, I do think it was very much in Stephanie's character to just naturally assume she's so much better than everyone else and if she didn't get what she wanted, it's because of someone else's shady business. 

Edited April 8, 2016 by Joana

[Nobodysfan]

I am not sure I am 100% certain that Owen knwos the truth about Riggs' marriage.  But even if it is true, it doesn't matter if Riggs was fucking the every Doctor without a border.  That is not the reason his wife died.  It is also not Riggs' fault that Amelia, a grown ass-woman, didn't tell him she was an addict.   I am so tired of Owen's anger at Riggs.  I do like the actor who plays Rigg's a lot.  His face when he realizes Amelia was an alcoholic was a great bit of non-verbal acting.

I like this moment a lot, too. Martin can do subtle acting great. I adored it about Dempsey as well. It can´t be said about McKidd,with all respect I find him more and more terrible each episode. The way he portrays Owen has become awful as seasons progressed. 

Martin mentioned in one interview he has been sober for 12 years, I think the scene in the ambulance was maybe quite emotional for him, putting the actor´s mask away. 

 

Owen´s anger is becoming truly controversial, I believe the truth is that what Owen knows is his sister´s version and it is what she wanted him to believe. I do not believe Riggs is a cheater and a liar, not after what I have seen him do,say,how he acts,and it is also not shown in any way shape or form how Martin portrays him. I believe Megan was/is the cheater and liar herself. After all, her brother is made of the same stuff personality-wise.

 

Also the way Owen grabbed the equipment furiously and stomped out of the OR,after Riggs tried to save that heart with all he could possibly do,I find that totally unprofessional of Owen,generally speaking, he is a candidate for being reprimanded for misconduct of a doctor. 

 

WEBBER IS THE  BEST!!!   Loved his convo with Avery goddess in the bedroom. He was awesome. Kudos to Jim Pickens. 

Helicopter mama. LOL

Edited April 8, 2016 by NathanRiggsfan

[windsprints]

Meredith doesn't care about them. Maggie actually seems a lot closer to Amelia than to Meredith. They have little in common. All of them can easily afford a place of their own. Just stop with the whole sisterhood thing, for God's sake. It isn't working.

 

Agreed, other than Maggie and Amelia being childcare there's no reason for them all to live together. Amelia moving back in there is a mistake. Its only a matter of time until Meredith is screaming 'get her out of here or I'll kill her' or throws her out. I get Amelia may want to stay as close as possible to Derek's children because they're her connection to him but she could live nearby and still be connected to them. There seems to be plenty of time they aren't with Meredith where Aunt Amelia could spend time with them.  Meredith and Maggie don't seem all that close and its been a couple of years now but at least Meredith doesn't appear to dislike Maggie like she does Amelia.

 

I'm wondering if Owen's rage is going to lead somewhere. Its been building and building. Right now its mainly directed at Riggs but his foot stomping hissy fit when the heart wasn't viable has it spreading to other areas of his life. Maybe its Owen's turn for a break/melt down ala Meredith last episode.

Edited April 8, 2016 by windsprints

[GreysFan89]

Agreed, other than Maggie and Amelia being childcare there's no reason for them all to live together. Amelia moving back in there is a mistake. Its only a matter of time until Meredith is screaming 'get her out of here or I'll kill her' or throws her out. I get Amelia may want to stay as close as possible to Derek's children because they're her connection to him but she could live nearby and still be connected to them. There seems to be plenty of time they aren't with Meredith where Aunt Amelia could spend time with them.  Meredith and Maggie don't seem all that close and its been a couple of years now but at least Meredith doesn't appear to dislike Maggie like she does Amelia.

 

I'm wondering if Owen's rage is going to lead somewhere. Its been building and building. Right now its mainly directed at Riggs but his foot stomping hissy fit when the heart wasn't viable has it spreading to other areas of his life. Maybe its Owen's turn for a break/melt down ala Meredith last episode.

I'd really love them to stop this "sisterhood" thing, it just isn't working. Mer doesn't have particularly good chemistry with either of them. Are we supposed to think Mer and Maggie are totally close now? I honestly don't even know. I'd much rather see her relationship with Callie, Arizona, April, - just explore these relationships a bit more would be interesting. She's knew them all for years and they've not really properly explored them.  

[ChicksDigScars]

Guys, don't you get it???  The cabinet doors are a metaphor!!!!  Amelia keeps wanting to open up things that Meredith wants to close a door on!

 

Jeez, I feel like the only English major in the room.

 

That is quite sad that we didn't get it, considering that Grey's has been written this way since Day One. Something always means SOMETHING. Anvils, metaphors...nothing is ever random. 

 

And yeah, totally agree about Kato Kaelin Shepherd. I just got done binging Private Practice, and Amelia is always crashing at someone's home. She lived with Addison, then Sam, and only after getting sober during the final season, got her own place and proceeded to leave things in boxes for three months and have nothing in her fridge except bread and salsa. She left LA (off camera, after PP was done), comes to Seattle and moves into Ellis' flop house where everyone crashes, then to the Derek Dream House to help the Widow Shepherd-Grey with the kids, then went on to Owen's place after she and Mere got pissed at each other over Derek's death, and now back to the Ellis house, now inhabited by Meredith, Maggie and the invisible kids in the attic.  

 

Neurosurgeons make ridiculous coin, do they not? Why is she constantly moving from house to house instead of getting one of her own?  Or at least a high buck condo? Branch out, Kato. Get your own place. Because living with you HAS to be annoying as fuck for everyone. 

Edited April 8, 2016 by ChicksDigScars

[redfish]

That's it. I tap out. You won show. I give up. I can't watch this anymore. Typical April overreacting instead of confronting Jackson over the issue of parental rights from his mother and now has added fuel to the fire. This is going to make the rest of the season suck because this legal battle is going drag everyone into the drama until characters choose sides. My god, they are over 35 and they're acting worse than pre-teens overhearing rumours instead of confronting the issues. I thought they were done with this kind of drama BS after the plane crash storyline a few seasons ago when some actually got their act together. Augh. Why couldn't they confront each other on equal grounds at least open and honestly instead of overreacting and thinking the worst to manufacture drama. And I find it ironic that his mother will now claim not to be responsible for this mess because she'll believe that April threw the first salvo without provocation and then go after her head on without restraint. I hate that kind of drama because no one wins in it. They will all look bad in the long run and I hate the character assassinations of April and Jackson. Just let them fight each other for the right  reason.

[funnygirl]

i was willing to cut Penny some slack.  But this episode really makes me wonder what kinda crack is in the pipe those writers are smoking with this character.  Maybe if Samantha Sloyan was a more approachable actress then I could hand wave away some of the problems with her storyline.  But she isn't really a sympathetic actress in this case.  Her 'mic drop' speech was just bad, terrible, terribad. And who are all these people who are so impressed with her than she has them all recommending her?

 

This x 1000.

 

Viewers who are pissed at Jo and Stephanie for being annoyed with Penny applying, well you are playing right into the writers' hands. This is exactly what they do when they want to make a character likable, they tear down others. And I realize it's already not hard for people to dislike Jo or Stephanie, but Penny really is no better unless you're into the constantly propped, Mary Sue character.

[GreysFan89]

This x 1000.

 

Viewers who are pissed at Jo and Stephanie for being annoyed with Penny applying, well you are playing right into the writers' hands. This is exactly what they do when they want to make a character likable, they tear down others. And I realize it's already not hard for people to dislike Jo or Stephanie, but Penny really is no better unless you're into the constantly propped, Mary Sue character.

Hell I think Mary Sue herself would think "wow this is getting a bit unrealistic I can't be this bloody good!" lol

[DearEvette]

Hell I think Mary Sue herself would think "wow this is getting a bit unrealistic I can't be this bloody good!" lol

 

Ha!  IKR?  Even Mary Sue is like "Does she know who I am?"  LOL.

[GreysFan89]

Ha!  IKR?  Even Mary Sue is like "Does she know who I am?"  LOL.

At first I totally thought they were setting her up for a BIG fall but of course I'm not so silly anymore, we're legit supposed to believe she is like the most amazing resident ever. Yang will prob come back soon just to learn from her. lol

 

She'll most probably cure death in the season finale. 

[RachelKM]

This x 1000.

 

Viewers who are pissed at Jo and Stephanie for being annoyed with Penny applying, well you are playing right into the writers' hands. This is exactly what they do when they want to make a character likable, they tear down others. And I realize it's already not hard for people to dislike Jo or Stephanie, but Penny really is no better unless you're into the constantly propped, Mary Sue character.

See, for me, getting annoyed with Stephanie is about Stephanie and what I've long thought about her. She has an air of superiority and entitlement that just bugs.  I get Jo thinking that Penny was being a little shady by claiming at 9 am that she didn't want to apply and then applying and not saying anything and it had to be galling Penny got the grant she claimed not to want a scant 12 hours earlier.  But Stephanie is kinda always like that.  I've never much cared for the character and about the only time I've felt for her was when she was ditched by Jackson at the wedding.  (I like Jackson, but that was some bullshit on several fronts.) 

 

My getting annoyed with Stephanie, however, does not make me like or sympathetic to Penny.  Just like my annoyance with Jo for her accusing Stephanie of lying about a childhood illness to get ahead didn't make me like Stephanie more.  I don't hate Penny, I just find her boring and she has absolutely no chemistry with Callie.  That is true irrespective of Stephanie acting like an asshole. 

[KaveDweller]

Especially considering she was clearly shown to have no qualms with lying and elbowing in order to get ahead.

She lost all my sympathy when she went all psycho on Jo at the infamous dinner party at Meredith's when she was just trying to be nice to her. She can be screwed over whenever as far as I'm concerned. 

 

I thought Stephanie was saying she got screwed over by Amelia, because she had told her she was recommended her, but apparently recommended Penny as well. It's still kind of ridiculous, but I can understand why she was upset about that.

 

But Penny had every right to apply. She hadn't even realized she could apply until the previous night, so it's not even like she changed her mind.

[Joana]

 I don't hate Penny, I just find her boring and she has absolutely no chemistry with Callie.  That is true irrespective of Stephanie acting like an asshole. 

 

Exactly that. And I don't think the writers were really trying to tear Stephanie and Jo down, what they did was not out of character for them, IMO. Stephanie is clearly arrogant and entitled and I don't think it was suprising that she accused Amelia of backing up Penny only so that she would leave, because I totally see it as something she would do, while Jo was shown to be quick to assume the worst about people when she thought Stephanie was lying about her childhood illness. 

 

I thought Stephanie was saying she got screwed over by Amelia, because she had told her she was recommended her, but apparently recommended Penny as well. It's still kind of ridiculous, but I can understand why she was upset about that.

 

 

When she talked to the patient in the end, she said that she had been screwed over by a friend, that is, Penny (or "the redhead", as he put it). 

Edited April 8, 2016 by Joana

[jb4uiwill]

Penny has been written so "perfectly" that I keep waiting for her to really flip out. I don't care how or why she won that grant, I just want her gone. Like disappear in the hospital's parking lot gone lol

[GreysFan89]

Penny has been written so "perfectly" that I keep waiting for her to really flip out. I don't care how or why she won that grant, I just want her gone. Like disappear in the hospital's parking lot gone lol

Yes me too, do an Erica, Penny please!

 

Obviously there is no realistic reason she won that grant other everyone just wants her gone! 

[DearEvette]

I think Stephanie is arrogant, yes.  And super confident in her abilities.  But I don't agree that I am seeing entitlement. 

 

I remember when Meredith got the job of Chief of General Surgery(?) and Bailey low-balled her salary, almost to an insulting degree.  Finally Mer went in to negotiate it and Bailey told her, nobody is going to give you anything you are going to have to fight for it.  And also words along the line of "know your worth."  It was obviously a meta-message in there from feminist writers in a feminist leaning show about women being more assertive and commanding the right salary for their skills etc. etc.

 

But also in the back of my mind is the meta-message about how they seem to be finally crafting Stephanie's character this season.  This is a show created and written by a black woman in an industry that largely finds black women invisible.  I can't help thinking that in the season where issues of race, visibility and credibility have already come out through Stephanie,  if this isn't yet another iteration of that in another form as well.  Is she being given these characteristics of hyper confidence, arrogance and this extra hustle because it is what she knows she has to do it because no one will be doing it for her? 

Edited April 8, 2016 by DearEvette

[KaveDweller]

When she talked to the patient in the end, she said that she had been screwed over by a friend, that is, Penny (or "the redhead", as he put it). 

 

The patient was the one who mentioned the red head, though. Stephanie was definitely angry with Penny, so she didn't object, but I think she was more upset about Amelia than Penny.

[funnygirl]

 

But Penny had every right to apply. She hadn't even realized she could apply until the previous night, so it's not even like she changed her mind.

 

Penny did change her mind, though. When she found out that she was also eligible, she told Jo and Stephanie that she wasn't going to because she was just starting to get settled at the hospital. And when Callie asked her about it the next morning, she told her the same thing and was adamant that she wasn't applying.

 

She had every right to apply, but she shouldn't be surprised that her "friends" are annoyed at her for doing so after she told them she wasn't interested, Stephanie was right in that it does looks shady. And should Callie be bothered by it down the line, same thing. Because Penny told her she didn't want to go away for a year and then she went and did it anyway.

 

At the end of the day, as long as it gets Penny off the show then I don't really care. I'm over seeing her face in every other scene, and it's so very wrong that she has gotten more development and face time this season than Jo and Alex and Jolex, characters and a couple who got shortchanged last season, as well as many other characters.  

[ElectricBoogaloo]

So Electric Boogaloo, don't leave us hanging--what happened? With benefit of hindsight, would you still make that move?

(Sorry, quote function not working for me today.)

**************************

Haha, at first I thought you were referring to the comment I made about a Jack Tripper type pratfall at the hospital and I was like HELL YEAH I still support someone tripping over a tray of medical supplies (possibly while wearing a Mrs. Roper caftan)! I finally realized that you were referring to my previous post.

I ignored my aunt's "advice" because I had already made my decision about moving to Berkeley with my boyfriend before her unsolicited two cents. We have been happily married for almost seven years so I would definitely make the same decision again.

To be fair, I know people who started med school, law school, and various grad school programs with a significant other and some of those relationships did not survive. I also know people who stayed with their significant other during that time and are still together. It has less to do with how time consuming/stressful the program is and more to do with the state of the existing relationship beforehand and both people's expectations of what will happen during the time that at least one person is in the program. If you are the person who is not in med/law/grad school and you think that your schedules will always be perfectly aligned, you may be very disappointed when there are late nights.

But I think that realistic expectations are always important in a relationship regardless of how old you are or what you are doing for school/work. And that's why I think a lot of doctors date doctors (and a lot of actors date actors). It's much more likely that a non-doctor is going to get annoyed that you flaked for dinner or came home four hours late because you got pulled into a surgery or other patient related situation whereas when it's two doctors, they understand that it happens and they're less likely to get upset about it.

Just last week Amelia told Owen she wanted to skip their dinner plans because she had just lost a patient and even rageaholic Owen didn't get upset about her canceling plans at the last minute.

Even though Mr. EB is done with law school, our schedules aren't perfectly in sync. It's not ideal but we make it work and we don't get pissy if one of us has to work later than usual.

There are all kinds of situations where people have sad stories about what happened to their relationships but you can't base a decision on what happened to other people. For example, long distance relationships are something I wouldn't enthusiastically endorse because they're hard and they take a lot of work. That doesn't mean they're doomed to fail though. I had two long distance relationships (100 miles away) that ultimately didn't work out despite lots of frequent visits almost every weekend and one (500 miles away) that did work despite only getting to see each other one weekend every 3-6 weeks. Again a lot of it has to do with realistic expectations and how committed you both are to making it work.

Realistic expectations are important no matter what phase your relationship is in, which is why I am worried that Ben and Miranda are heading toward a Derek/Meredith "I am the sun" showdown once Ben starts applying for fellowships or attending positions. The look on her face when he said that he will have his time to shine later made me think that she isn't going to be willing to put his career above hers if it means leaving Grey Sloan.

I think that no matter how many people have been in similar situations, you need to make your own decision based on what you think is best for you. Even if it ends up being a mistake, it's YOUR mistake, not someone else's. That's why Catherine's self righteous speech annoyed me. Some people can happily co-parent a child after the parents' romantic/sexual relationship ends. As much as I dislike April and her choices, the fact that Jackson's father was an ass doesn't mean that every broken up couple with a kid should go nuclear. Catherine pushing for that was a paranoid dick move. Besides, Jackson is an adult who can make his own decisions so Catherine needs to back off in general. I loved when Weber kept telling her what a meddler she is. Butt out, lady!

Edited April 9, 2016 by ElectricBoogaloo

[KaveDweller]

Penny did change her mind, though. When she found out that she was also eligible, she told Jo and Stephanie that she wasn't going to because she was just starting to get settled at the hospital. And when Callie asked her about it the next morning, she told her the same thing and was adamant that she wasn't applying.

 

I forgot she said that to them, so she did change her mind. She said that so fast, I think it was before she even thought about it, which is why she changed her mind. Jo and Stephanie had a right to be annoyed, but not that annoyed because at the end of the day she doesn't owe them an explanation.

 

Now Callie has a right to be very annoyed. But I don't get why she didn't know from being in a meeting where everyone else made their recommendations.

[Greysaddict]

The original story they gave was Jackson father abandoned him and the Avery responsibility when Jackson was three. Im assuming Harper Avery was still running things at that time. If Jacksons dad is Harper Averys only son, then Jackson is the only one who can inherit it. If Catherine kept a good relationship with HA and he really liked her and trusted her, I could see how he would intrust her with the company, especially since he has no other children, and Catherine son (his grandson) is next to inherit it. He may look at Catherine as a daughter.

 

We don't know that Jacksons father is dead. He could be living it up in Mexico for all we know. I always wanted the show to explore the storyline of Jacksons dad showing up

Of all the things that made no sense in this episode (and there were lots), Jackson/Catherine's backstory is so weird and convoluted.  They keep throwing out thee random things regarding Jackson's father and they really don't fit together at all.  

[Amelie06]

 

There are actually battered women who can't get restraining orders...explain to me how she got it approved with no evidence

Here is my theory on the restraining order. I think it's temporary. April made some allegations and it was enough to get the judge to issue a temporary restraining order pending a hearing to fully litigate the issue. She wouldn't need to furnish a lot of evidence. This temporary order would basically be saying, "Jackson, stay away from this woman until we figure out what is going on." Also, instead of a straight up stay away order, it could be no unlawful contact allowing them to still work together.

 

As for what she may have alleged to get the restraining order, it depends on how she casts their interactions. Just think about the episode where Jackson found out about the baby. The allegations could be written like this:

 

"Mr. Avery, the complainant's ex-husband, has repeatedly approached her at work and home in an aggressive manner. In one instance he physically restrained her by grabbing her arm, preventing her from leaving. This happened at work in front of several witnesses. Later that night he came to her home, once again in an aggressive manner. He told her he wanted her to have an abortion, despite knowing her objections to this course. He became so enraged that the complainant felt her safety was at risk and had to quickly shut the door on Mr. Avery. He then either punched or kicked the closed door, further alarming the complainant."

 

If you're going for broke, it's not a bad strategy. Unless Jackson can get the record sealed, this request for a restraining order can really follow him around. This would be a public record that anyone could view. This can be used in a custody battle to portray Jackson as dangerous and violent. It's dirty, but possibly effective.

 

It irks me that the writers decided to take April in this direction. I find it really offensive. Restraining orders should only be used when you feel that you are in actual danger.

 

 

Stephanie,  if this isn't yet another iteration of that in another form as well.  Is she being given these characteristics of hyper confidence, arrogance and this extra hustle because it is what she knows she has to do it because no one will be doing it for her?

This. All of this! I like Stephanie. If you are good and willing to work to be even better, why do you have to sit around taking low just to keep up with your peers? Cristina Yang in her heyday would have cut Penny for pulling a move like that. Penny had every right to apply, but I would probably be annoyed with her as well. They told Penny why they thought she was a strong candidate for the grant. Indeed, by virtue of Penny just applying meant that she got the grant in record time. It feels different when you apply for something thinking you have a chance versus thinking you don't have a chance and just want to give it a shot anyway. I love that Stephanie is competent and is the least likely to let her emotions guide her in a surgery. That doesn't happen enough in this hospital. I like that Stephanie isn't here for people trying to psychoanalyze her and come up with some bs reason for why she's good. I agreed with her clapback at Jo during the dinner party. Just accept that she's good and knows it.

[operakatz]

Especially since he owns part of the hospital.

And on what actual grounds?

[mojito]

Apocalypse Cow, I don't shut cabinet doors. I was telling someone at work about this odd quirk of mine and she couldn't stop laughing because at the time, I had two desk drawers open plus two overhead cabinets. Sometimes, I just go into the kitchen to close cabinet and pantry doors.

 

I liked how the cabinet conversation ended with Amelia and Meredith stating that yeah, this is what they do, and then Amelia stating that Maggie was pretty annoying, though.

 

Watching this show lately, I've found myself asking, "Just what grade are these people supposed to be in?" For adults, they exchange far too much personal information. 

Edited April 9, 2016 by mojito

[gator12]

One doesn't have to be a battered woman or a victim of domestic violence to get a restraining order b/c there are more than just one type of restraining order. In the state of Washington there is civil anti-harassment order

 

 

The law defines "harassment" as a series of willful acts over a period of time that:
seriously alarms, annoys, harasses, or harms you without “serving a legitimate purpose”; and
reasonably causes you to suffer substantial emotional distress (harm); or
reasonably causes you to fear for the well-being of your child.

 April didn't have to lie to get a restraining order and it doesn't mean she lie to get one either

Really she should have filed one against Catherine b/c that was some emotional manipulation from Mama Avery 

Edited April 9, 2016 by gator12

[statsgirl]

It occurs to me that if a third year resident who just arrived at the hospital and hasn't done any research wins the most prestigious prize over the 4th and 5th year residents, Sloan-Grey must be  doing some really crappy teaching.

 

I still don't understand why Amelia tries with Meredith. Of all the unrealistic crap on this show, that wannabe sisters thing remains the most confusing.

Toleration isn't love.

Amelia and Meredith are different kinds of people.  Meredith doesn't need people except when she needs them to do things for her.  Derek is the one who wanted children, not her.  The show tried to portray Cristina as Ellis Grey cold but it's really Meredith who puts herself over what other people need.  She forgets her kids and relies on other people to make sure they're taken to daycare and picked up. It never occurred to her that Amelia would want to say good bye to her only brother.  Derek was Amelia's brother 30 years before he was Meredith's SO, that's a bond that is worth respecting but meaningless to Meredith.

 

Meredith claims people rather than bonding with them.. She claimed Alex, leading to problems with Jo. She claimed Owen after Cristina left, telling Amelia (who was dating him at the time) that she promised Cristina she would take care of him and it was none of Amelia's business.

 

Amelia is the sort of person who needs people around, who wants them to love her and to take care of them.  (I know someone like this; if she ever had to live truly alone, she'd be crushed.)  It doesn't matter how much money Amelia has, she the youngest of her family, she lost a lot (father, child, brother), and she wants contact with people or her life is empty.   She started drinking again at the point when Meredith rejected her and Owen shut her out.  She'd rather sleep on someone's couch than have to be alone.  As she said to Owen after Meredith told her to get out, Derek loved Meredith and so there must be good in her.  She'd rather stay with Meredith, barely tolerated, than have to be alone.

 

I've learned over the years that if there's an easy way to solve a problem, it's better to use it than constant fighting to prove that you're in the right.  Hence the self-closing cupboard doors.  (I don't shut doors because the "bang" sound upsets me and my daughter never shuts them.)

 

I also think the fact that nobody is really rooting hard for Penny makes it hard to take the speeches seriously. She might get walked on a bit but she's stood up for herself enough that being a doormat Isn't the case anymore. She's also supposed to be brilliant in specialty and gets more special treatment then all the other residents put together.

You know who Penny reminds me of?  Barry Allen on The Flash. They're both such special snowflakes and they're amazingly perfect but they both also need constant pep talks or they feel crushed and hopeless.  It's just as annoying in Barry as it is in Penny

 

I'm not surprised Jo and Edwards were angry at her when they found out she had applied and not told them while they were talking about their own applications.  That's someone you can't trust.

Edited April 9, 2016 by statsgirl

[Rae Spellman]

 

 

April didn't have to lie to get a restraining order and it doesn't mean she lie to get one either

Really she should have filed one against Catherine b/c that was some emotional manipulation from Mama Avery

 

From what we know of Jackson, he isn't abusive or someone who willfully harms people. While April's telling of what happened, may have been enough cause for a temporary restraining order, Jackson would have a chance to tell his side of the story and share April's recent actions. Perhaps Jackson should have requested a restraining order when April disregarded his repeated requests to leave him alone, and to leave the home that he mentioned was only in his name.

 

April has been emotionally manipulative over the course of her relationship with Jackson. The way she told Arizona to go to hell was pretty dreadful, too. 

 

As far as Catherine goes, telling your husband and son that you want to sue your former daughter in-law for fraud doesn't seem particularly restraining order worthy.

 

April's most recent distress is her own fault for overreacting after eavesdropping. She could have let Catherine know that she heard her. She could have paid attention to what Webber was saying and talked to him. Webber and Jackson were on April's side! April could have called a reasonable family member, college friend, etc. and talked things over. Jackson apologized and was going to do things her way. Catherine backed down within a day or two and seemed pretty sincere when she apologized to Jackson.

 

From what Catherine said, her goal was sole custody for Jackson. And, while April may or may not be like Jackson's father, it's not unreasonable to think that April could leave town with, and limit Jackson's access to the Avery heir. After all she left the country twice while she was still married to Jackson and had no intention of divorcing him.

 

Maybe April should be talking to her pastor, or a therapist, or family, or friends about what's going on. Surely, there's someone who could help her see that she's making things worse for herself. 

Edited April 9, 2016 by RaeSpellman

[kushka]

 

So Riggs is a cheater and a liar?  ok...cool, whatever I kind of don't care, this story is boring and has been dragged on for way too long.  At least Owen's hatred of him makes a little more sense now.  April/Arizona and the case was just trying too hard to be symbolic.  And, since when does a 14 year old get to make their own medical decisions? How was it even a question whether to tell the mother about the girl's pregnancy especially since it directly related to her necessary care.  I assumed April telling the mom was supposed to mirror April teling Jackson because they both "needed to know", but it was not at all the same.  I also thought the same thing about the patient's mother looking too old to have been a teen mom with a 14 year old.  

 

HIPPA privacy rules state that if a state or other law prohibits disclosure of information or records to a parent without the minor's consent, the rule does not allow a provider to disclose without the minor's permission.  Washington state law allows pregnancy treatment, STD treatment, birth control etc. rights to minors without parents permission, so do many other states.  The reason for these exemptions from parental notification is that minors will usually forgo necessary medical treatments if their parents are informed, and parents will often force a minor to either have an abortion or continue a pregnancy based on the parents, not the child's beliefs. 

[pennben]

Guys, don't you get it???  The cabinet doors are a metaphor!!!!  Amelia keeps wanting to open up things that Meredith wants to close a door on!

 

Jeez, I feel like the only English major in the room.

 

I honestly thought this was a bit more playful than that.  They had Maggie all episode thinking 'this isn't about cabinets, it's about something deeper', she was even trying to do a version of an intervention, and then we learned at the end of the episode that sometimes an annoyance about something trivial is just that, Meredith was bugged by what Amelia was doing, it happens.  Sometimes an open cabinet door is just an open cabinet door, if you will.

Edited April 9, 2016 by pennben

[photo fox]

I know the "sisters" thing bothers a lot of people, but I do really like Maggie and Amelia's friendship. I think it's interesting that they would both probably say they're closer to Meredith, but when stuff happens, they turn to each other, nor her.

When Amelia found Owen drinking, she went to Maggie. (Meredith didn't even know she was there, and Amelia was going to leave without telling her.) When DeLuca started his vanishing act, it was Amelia who Maggie looked to for an explanation.

I feel like their care for and about Meredith is something they have in common not the thing holding them together. I think they'd be friends anyway. They have a nice, equal, non-dependent friendship, and the show is sadly lacking in that area these days.

[Shellie]

Amelia is the sort of person who needs people around, who wants them to love her and to take care of them. 

 

I also view Amelia's wanting to live with Meredith and Maggie as being totally in character and established in her history.  There are other residential situations on this show that seem more bewildering to me.  I don't get why Owen has been living in an RV for years.  I wasn't sure why Jackson wanted to sleep on Ben's couch for however long.  At first, I suppose he felt bad and didn't want to be alone, but sleeping on a couch in a living room has to get old.  Then I didn't understand why Ben and Bailey don't have a guest room.  So many of them act like they're practically broke when they're making a ton of money.  

 

This is done on other shows too for plot devices and character relationships, I suppose.  Like Wilson moving in with House, and House moving in with Wilson.  

[Sheenieb]

 

I'm not surprised Jo and Edwards were angry at her when they found out she had applied and not told them while they were talking about their own applications.  That's someone you can't trust.

 

See, I don't even think they're mad because she applied behind their backs. They're upset because they didn't consider her competition. She's from a low-tier hospital, and on top of that, she was labeled as incompetent due to Derek's death. If she were some wunderkind like Maggie, then they would've swallowed the loss better. It's more about snobbery than actual betrayal. But if it is 'betrayal' then that's ridiculous, too. Penny doesn't have to justify her decision to anyone.