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S03.E15: Spacetime


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So......this is a leftover script from that Flash Forward show a few years ago?

It is the Inhuman balance when Raina sacrificed herself we needed another  with a similar power set to The Clairvoyant.

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That was a really good episode.

 

"We interrupt this post to bring you this breaking news.  We here at ABC have learned that humans breathe oxygen."

 

Loved Coulson saying Lincoln was off the team for not seeing Terminator, that's a perfectly reasonable response.  The training was great as well, had to laugh at May telling Simmons to fall over.  And the final 10 minutes or so was some of the best work this show has done.

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Credit to ABC . . . we didn't go past 10, even with the interruption. Still unnecessary to cut into the episode, where a rolling banner would have been just as affective. Unless a candidate is taking hostages, I'm not interested.

 

So . . . Charles was Christopher Walken in The Dead Zone, except the other person shared the vision? Okay, then. It was okay. I'm dealing with a lost tooth, so my attention was a little diverted.

 

We'll see Andrew again . . . five seconds after Lash gets killed. Total speculation on my part.

 

I was trying to pay attention . . . was there any spoilers from Captain America: Civil War hinted at? I heard that was supposed to happen, but once again . . . lost tooth. Not a fun day for me.

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In this episode: Ward learns of the Matrix.  (But really, that jacket ...)

 

Andrew surrendering himself to SHIELD felt a bit anti-climactic right after we saw how hard May and Simmons are looking for him.  And other than Andrew and the team seeing not!Ward, this episode felt a bit filler-ish.  So the guy was supposed to see a vision every time he touched someone, and he only ever saw visions that ended in death.  Unless he was responsible for the deaths in some way (and I guess this was the case in some of them), it's a bit much.  I wonder if he tried heavy duty gloves?  (It looked like every vision involved skin to skin contact.)  Plastic wrap?  (Suddenly I'm thinking of the show Pushing Daisies!)  I would've appreciated more details about his trying/failing to escape and outwit his "gift."

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So the guy was supposed to see a vision every time he touched someone, and he only ever saw visions that ended in death.  Unless he was responsible for the deaths in some way (and I guess this was the case in some of them), it's a bit much.  I wonder if he tried heavy duty gloves?  (It looked like every vision involved skin to skin contact.)  Plastic wrap?  (Suddenly I'm thinking of the show Pushing Daisies!)  I would've appreciated more details about his trying/failing to escape and outwit his "gift."

He could've become tired and cynical like Clyde Bruckman, but eventually it became too much even for him. It wasn't so much that he was responsible, it was that he could not change anything.

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In this episode: Ward learns of the Matrix. (But really, that jacket ...)

Was that jacket dark green? And speaking the colors of the charaters' clothes why is everyone wearing black so much? Does SHIELD have a dress code where all clothes must be 50%+ black?

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Was that jacket dark green? And speaking the colors of the charaters' clothes why is everyone wearing black so much? Does SHIELD have a dress code where all clothes must be 50%+ black?

They have to do a lot of sneaking, and you can't really wear bright colors for trying to infiltrate somewhere

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(edited)

They have to do a lot of sneaking, and you can't really wear bright colors for trying to infiltrate somewhere

Not all of are field agents and its weird seeing everyone dress in all black. Its like they are going to a funeral.

Edited by TVSpectator
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This was a good one.  I like the way that it played out.

 

Coulson telling Lincoln he was off the team for not seeing the original Terminator was funny.  He seemed to be back to his old amusing self at times.


Is it just me or was the FitzSimmons "not snow"/handholding at the end a subtle Doctor Who "The Christmas Invasion" reference?  Just me? Okay then. 

 

Simmons did make a reference to the TARDIS in Season 1 so maybe that's what they were thinking.

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Fitz made a comment about wondering what would happen that would prevent May from going on the mission.  I was wondering that too, but Andrew turning himself in was not even remotely on my list.  That was a nice surprise to see him again, and for May to reach some sort of resolution to some of her issues.

 

I wonder if he tried heavy duty gloves?

 

Rogue in the X-Men has to wear gloves to prevent unintentionally putting the whammy on someone, and she seems to cope with it.  But X-Men are owned by Fox, and they probably have the patent on wearing gloves... yeah that doesn't make sense.

 

I realize the dude was seriously traumatized by his new abilities, but he didn't have to abandon his family if he'd taken those kinds of precautions.  "He'll never hold his daughter again [tears]".  Well, maybe not, and he certainly shouldn't touch her until he's figured out the right precautions (e.g., are wool gloves enough or does he need neoprene), but not being able to physically touch her doesn't mean he can't be part of her life. 

 

I wonder if Daisy will reassess her "being Inhuman is awesome!" attitude now that she's seen yet another person whose transformation wasn't all puppies and rainbows - there's some opportunity for character growth there, though I doubt it will happen.  I'm guessing that the only thing that carries forward from this episode is her vision of the reused footage from the mid-season opener flash-forward.

 

I really hope this is the last season for any incarnation of Ward.  I thik Brett Dalton is going for the "zen-like deadly calm menace" thing, but he's just not getting there. 

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Borrrring.

 

Coulson letting Daisy go on the mission was incredibly stupid. If you REALLY want to break the future chain of events, don't let her go on the mission NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS. It's really that simple. What did sending her accomplish? The guy died anyway; Daisy murdered like four guys and then she got the crap punched out of her on a rooftop. Good thing she showed up!

 

And why didn't Malick just knock her out and take her with him? SquidWard could have thrown some fairy dust at her and made her his willing accomplice. Why not do that?

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I really like Daisy's hair in this episode.

 

I don't think Malick needed an exosuit to punch a girl.

I think they were going for a MMA ground and pound killing shot as opposed to Captain America, Agent May or Bobbi merely knocking someone out with one punch or a kick. Especially after bringing back a paralyzed Agent Blake we are left with the prejudiced that it takes an enhanced being to do the damage that actual regular humans, even old men, are really able to do

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(edited)

And why didn't Malick just knock her out and take her with him? SquidWard could have thrown some fairy dust at her and made her his willing accomplice. Why not do that?

 

Now I really wish that that had happened, if only because it would actually make the show mix things up.

Edited by kitlee625
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Now I really wish that that had happened (Malick kidnapping Daisy), if only because it would actually make the show mix things up.

The problem becomes that she immediately becomes part of the Hive and now Mallick has seen something of the future, probably he is not destined to worship and live with Hive/Ward as an Inhuman supremacist, and is only seen as a useful dupe by Ward/Hive. So they have to find a reason to keep Daisy from getting too close to Ward/Hive's power

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(edited)

I saw the first fifteen minutes - up to the part where Daisy-Skye touched homeless guy and glimpsed the future. Then I started dozing off and caught the end where Skye-Daisy was lying beside homeless guy and got another jolt of future shock... I remember seeing May talking to Andrew  and Ward talking to Mallick  - -  basically a lot of talking, leading to sleepy times .. 

 

Dammit, what is it with  this show? It feels like when you try to date someone who checks all the boxes, seems perfectly fine on paper - but every time they start talking, your mind starts drifting. You look at them talking but you start thinking about other things  ... such as, why is Skye-Daisy wearing a leather jacket with studs on the shoulders? Why is SHIELD headquarters so dark and every monitor screen saturated in red?    ... Eventually you start coming up with lame excuses for not being able to hang out, like needing to fold clothes or clean the stove (and sadly, you would actually rather be doing those things) .. And  finally you say some crappy thing like "it's not you, it's me" .. because you just can't figure out why things are not clicking.. even though you really wish they were.

 

Almost every scene feels as if I'm watching the actors reciting their lines and hitting their marks -- even the action scenes. It is all very competently done and everyone seems to be giving it their best effort ... but I just never feel engaged in the world I am being shown. Is it just me? Why don't I get this same feeling of indifference when watching things like Daredevil or Jessica Jones? It's weird. 

Edited by shrewd.buddha
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I wonder if Daisy will ever realize that Charles died because she was convinced that she was the Chosen One who could save him.  There's a chance they'll go that route for some angst and then patch it up with Coulson delivering some healing words of wisdom.  There's a chance that anything alluding to Special Snowflake Syndrome is strictly off-limits.

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(edited)

And why didn't Malick just knock her out and take her with him? SquidWard could have thrown some fairy dust at her and made her his willing accomplice. Why not do that?

 

 

Now I really wish that that had happened, if only because it would actually make the show mix things up.

This points to one of the problems with AoS : characters do not act or react in ways that seem logical or organic -- such as when Daisy takes out  ( presumably,  killing) -- four or five no-name fighters in a shoot-first-ask-questions-later mode. But as soon as the enemy played by an actor the audience recognizes comes onto the scene, suddenly it becomes "the script is telling me to talk first and not shoot."  Almost all action shows do this, but the better ones manage to do it without it seeming illogical and non-realistic. 

 

..The same thing applies to Hydra's People-Scooper-Upper Machine, which apparently has no means of being stopped or tracked by SHIELD. Logic would lead one to wonder why Hydra doesn't just scoop up everyone that is a problem for them: Skye-Daisy, Lincoln, Coulson, etc. But they don't,  because ... the plot wouldn't like it.

Edited by shrewd.buddha
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So let me get this straight. Hydra was originally created back in the day in order to return this big bad Inhuman to Earth in order for them to take over the world. To do this they had to amass vast wealth, power and influence, with people entrenched in nearly every government in the world. Or, as monsterWard (Is this guy ever going to have a name? I mean, I know he has a comic one but so far he doesn't on the show and that's all that really counts). more succinctly put it, they already more or less rule the world, what more can he really do for them? And then Malick is surprised when the Ward of all Evil (or Weevil as I have just decided to call him) turns out to have an agenda of his own, which has nothing to do with Hydra. Evil is so stupid sometimes.

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I wonder if Daisy will ever realize that Charles died because she was convinced that she was the Chosen One who could save him.  There's a chance they'll go that route for some angst and then patch it up with Coulson delivering some healing words of wisdom.  There's a chance that anything alluding to Special Snowflake Syndrome is strictly off-limits.

 

I'm thinking it'll just change her stance on the Inhuman vaccine Simmons is trying to make. Like she finally realized being an Inhuman wasn't a gift for Charles, it basically ruined his life.

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I wonder if Daisy will ever realize that Charles died because she was convinced that she was the Chosen One who could save him.  There's a chance they'll go that route for some angst and then patch it up with Coulson delivering some healing words of wisdom.  There's a chance that anything alluding to Special Snowflake Syndrome is strictly off-limits.

 

I'm thinking it'll just change her stance on the Inhuman vaccine Simmons is trying to make. Like she finally realized being an Inhuman wasn't a gift for Charles, it basically ruined his life.

 

I imagine there will be many expressions of futility and nihilism in the SHIELD offices this week.

 

I don't mind Daisy's 'flake'y-ness. The character is committed to helping people and continues to meet obstacles that would cause most to back down and give up. For this scenario especially, there was literally nothing she could do to help- but she tried anyway. It's a convenient plot point for her- she somewhat escapes consequence because the future is what will happen no matter her actions- but it's depressing as hell none the less.

 

Anyone have another guess as to who is inhabiting the orbiter/Quinjet?? 

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Honestly, I think it will make her more determined to protect and encourage the development of the Inhumans because she's going to believe that she was "saved for a reason or purpose." She'll become even more Inhumans' rights focused and it will cause some sort of issue that will probably be addressed around the time of the finale.

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Honestly, I think it will make her more determined to protect and encourage the development of the Inhumans because she's going to believe that she was "saved for a reason or purpose." She'll become even more Inhumans' rights focused and it will cause some sort of issue that will probably be addressed around the time of the finale.

I think you're right.  Add in Lincoln's comment about Inhuman abilities not being random, but being in response to a need, and Daisy will be full-on "it's my destiny! to do... something." 

 

I wonder how Lincoln's comment applies to Lash.  There was a need for an Inhuman-killing monster?  I guess because teragenesis got into the environment and cause too many people to transform?

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I think you're right. Add in Lincoln's comment about Inhuman abilities not being random, but being in response to a need, and Daisy will be full-on "it's my destiny! to do... something."

I wonder how Lincoln's comment applies to Lash. There was a need for an Inhuman-killing monster? I guess because teragenesis got into the environment and cause too many people to transform?

Sure, if the Kree lost control of their weapons, as they did , something would have to control or destroy them.
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They went deep with the side character names for an episode about 4th dimensional theory

 

 

Edwin Abbott                   -    dude in the alley                           -  named after the author of Flatworld

Charles Hinton                -    precog dude                                 -  named after the guy who first coined the term tesseract

(William)Rowan Hamilton -    CEO of Transia Corps**               -   named after the Irish mathematician that did original math for the theory

 

**oh and Easter egg with the Company name after Marvel fictional country of Transia where Jonathan Drew worked ,Jessica was poisoned and her mother was killed by a werewolf, base of The High Evolutionary where he did his mad science (funnily enough under the influence of  a shady Inhuman) and whose formula gave Jessica her powers

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Where was Mack?

Has Henry Simmons been off filming something else? Because aside from the spring opener and last week, he's been either totally absent or barely on this entire season.

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Is it just me or was the FitzSimmons "not snow"/handholding at the end a subtle Doctor Who "The Christmas Invasion" reference?  Just me? Okay then. 

 

Simmons did make a reference to the TARDIS in Season 1 so maybe that's what they were thinking.

 

 

Damn, guys I had to look that one up and lo and behold, I found a picture of the 10th Doctor and Rose holding hands in the snow:

 

https://mangofrog.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/awww.jpg

 

 

 

This points to one of the problems with AoS : characters do not act or react in ways that seem logical or organic -- such as when Daisy takes out  ( presumably,  killing) -- four or five no-name fighters in a shoot-first-ask-questions-later mode. But as soon as the enemy played by an actor the audience recognizes comes onto the scene, suddenly it becomes "the script is telling me to talk first and not shoot."  Almost all action shows do this, but the better ones manage to do it without it seeming illogical and non-realistic. 

 

..The same thing applies to Hydra's People-Scooper-Upper Machine, which apparently has no means of being stopped or tracked by SHIELD. Logic would lead one to wonder why Hydra doesn't just scoop up everyone that is a problem for them: Skye-Daisy, Lincoln, Coulson, etc. But they don't,  because ... the plot wouldn't like it.

 

Yes, I have to agree. A lot of the characters really don't act in logical and/or organic manner. I wonder if the writers are deliberately writing like this because Marvel might have them limit the amount of plot/material, until a major movie comes out. But then again, you have scenes where we have Fitz explaining why visions of the future can't be changed while the movie didn't even mentioned the Time Gem yet. 

 

 

Where was Mack?

Has Henry Simmons been off filming something else? Because aside from the spring opener and last week, he's been either totally absent or barely on this entire season.

 

According to the promos, the character is coming back next week. As with the in-show explanation, is that he took some time off because of what happened to Hunter and Bobbie. Although, I have not heard anything about Henry Simmons doing filming for other material. 

 

 

I imagine there will be many expressions of futility and nihilism in the SHIELD offices this week.

 

I don't mind Daisy's 'flake'y-ness. The character is committed to helping people and continues to meet obstacles that would cause most to back down and give up. For this scenario especially, there was literally nothing she could do to help- but she tried anyway. It's a convenient plot point for her- she somewhat escapes consequence because the future is what will happen no matter her actions- but it's depressing as hell none the less.

 

Anyone have another guess as to who is inhabiting the orbiter/Quinjet?? 

 

I really do have problems with Daisy's flakey-ness. First, she isn't too young (in Season 2 they mentioned that her date of birth was something like 1987 or 1988. So, the character is almost 30 freaking years old but acts more like she is 14/15 years old). Second, her character totally flip-flopped to not only liking her powers but wanting more of her people to become Inhumans. 

 

As with who is inhabiting the Qinjet, it could be Daisy. Since she was the one who received the vision. 

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(edited)

I really do have problems with Daisy's flakey-ness. First, she isn't too young (in Season 2 they mentioned that her date of birth was something like 1987 or 1988. So, the character is almost 30 freaking years old but acts more like she is 14/15 years old). Second, her character totally flip-flopped to not only liking her powers but wanting more of her people to become Inhumans.

 

Definitely agree. They really can't manage to write her consistently, and she's flip-flopped on numerous issues since the show began, without showing us why or how she decided to change. Season 1 I could be more forgiving of some of her immaturity, impulsivity, and black/white thinking, but by season 3, I'd really like to see her mature or at least show some thought.

Edited by kitlee625
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(edited)

Definitely agree. Not only with her about-face on Inhumans, but remember when she believed in freedom of information, freedom of speech, and civil liberties? They really can't manage to write her consistently. Season 1 I could be more forgiving of some of her immaturity, impulsivity, and extreme black/white thinking (and her orphan pain), but by season 3, I'd really like to see her grow up.

 

Oh, yeah I remember her Rising Tide days when they picked her up from the van she was living in. And also let's not forget that the team totally forgave her for spying on them and trying to release their secrets online. Right now she is totally fine to go out and "scare" information out of, some guy she found on the Internet .

Edited by TVSpectator
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So let me get this straight. Hydra was originally created back in the day in order to return this big bad Inhuman to Earth in order for them to take over the world. To do this they had to amass vast wealth, power and influence, with people entrenched in nearly every government in the world. Or, as monsterWard (Is this guy ever going to have a name? I mean, I know he has a comic one but so far he doesn't on the show and that's all that really counts). more succinctly put it, they already more or less rule the world, what more can he really do for them? And then Malick is surprised when the Ward of all Evil (or Weevil as I have just decided to call him) turns out to have an agenda of his own, which has nothing to do with Hydra. Evil is so stupid sometimes.

I thought for a while that SquidWard was going to go someplace really interesting with his questions for Malick. As Iron Man pointed out to Loki, Earth has 7 billion very independent people. What good does being their forced leader get you? Nothing but an ongoing headache.

SquidWard had a good point that money and political influence already get you pretty much anything you want. But then SquidWard dropped the ball and went down the boring, cliche path of "power is the feeling of being able to kill people with your bare hands," slightly more effectively than normal humans can. Really, what good does that do in controlling the 7 billion? Sure, SquidWard and Charlie got that CEO to sign over his company, but Malick could have done that himself, with any combination of his money, getting a corrupt agency to break up the company, or, as he did with Talbot, threatening the man's family. The psycho thrill of up close and personal horror show killing seems rather ... petty and banal, for the product of the centuries long cabal wanting world domination. I was hoping for a much more unique and, well, alien understanding of power.

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As with the in-show explanation, is that he took some time off because of what happened to Hunter and Bobbie.

 

That was last week, with his short-circuited trip to visit his brother. This week he was out because he got shot and not enough time passed between episodes for him to recover.

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My first thought was also that Ward watched the Matrix.

 

Coulson makes Lincoln somewhat bearable. Dammit. I loved Coulson's "you're off the team" after Lincoln said he hadn't seen the original Terminator.

 

I'm glad they know about Ward and now we can all move on. And thankfully Fitz said right away, "I don't think that's Ward." Also SquidWard is kind of annoying but not as bad as plain old Evil Ward. Less talky more evil plan-ny, mkay? Malick is more annoying than Ward nowadays.

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Was that jacket dark green? And speaking the colors of the charaters' clothes why is everyone wearing black so much? Does SHIELD have a dress code where all clothes must be 50%+ black?

 

I think the SHIELD team is being outfitted by whomever came up with The Gap's Everybody in Leather campaign.

 

why is Skye-Daisy wearing a leather jacket with studs on the shoulders?

 

And why is she wearing a short-sleeved jacket with a really long-sleeved sweater? I'd swear that was the same leather jacket she's been wearing for a long time now except for some reason they chopped the sleeves off by a few inches. It looked very strange.

 

There's a chance that anything alluding to Special Snowflake Syndrome is strictly off-limits.

 

Then again, Fitz and Simmons were supposed to be holding hands in the snow. But the weather wasn't cooperating. So to fulfill the vision they had to be standing amidst (you guessed it) special snowflakes.

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Really don't understand why Malick didn't just use that opportunity to kidnap Daisy.  I guess it was his arrogance getting the better of him, but he really could have dealt a huge blow to SHIELD if he did; if for nothing else, Coulson would spend every opportunity and resource to find her and leaving everything else ripe for the taking.  Still, Daisy might almost wish she was kidnapped, once she comes back and Melinda finds out Old Man Malick kicked her ass.  I mean, sure, he was helped by the power of robotic arms, but getting a beatdown from Powers Boothe of all people, would be a humbling experience, I imagine.

 

Not a huger fan of this type of episode, because it is always obvious that nothing is going to change, so it's just a waiting game to see what happens that causes the future to remain the same, no matter what.  It was never in doubt that Charlie/homeless guy was destined to die.  And that there would be a logical reason why Coulson would be "shooting" Daisy.

 

Andrew is back briefly, but it seems like he's Lash for good, which isn't surprising since I heard Blair Underwood found another show.

 

At least the show seemed to acknowledge that Fitz' attempt to explain time with that stack of paper, was too dense, and everyone was basically like "Fuck it!", when he was done.  One of those times where I really missed Bobbi/Hunter, because I bet Hunter would have been hilarious in that scene.  Mack too.  I missed Mack.

 

Look on the bright side, Coulson!  At least Lincoln didn't actually say that Terminator: Genysis was the best of the franchise!  That would have gone past booting off the team, into throwing him in a cell, because he clearly would have been part of Hydra if he said that!  Lincoln was better here, although I still laughed when Inhuman Wo Fat casually use his powers to smack Lincoln in the face with that fire extinguisher.  Wo Fat just really had a "Don't even have time for you, buddy!" look for that entire scene.

 

SquidWard (ha!  Love it!) really much have been a huge fan of The Matrix films, during his time recovering.  I'm just surprised ABC hasn't tried in cross-promotion here with other Disney vehicles.  Maybe next week, he will have binged Star Wars, and he'll just start dressing like Kylo Ren.

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That was last week, with his short-circuited trip to visit his brother. This week he was out because he got shot and not enough time passed between episodes for him to recover.

 

My head canon is that he's recuperating at home with some comfort food and his laptop, working on the design for Shotgun-Axe 2.0.

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I don't have anything to add about the show but someone on the writing team must be from Brooklyn. Not that the show's version of Dyker Heights even remotely resembled the real neighborhood, but it isn't someplace that one would know about if they were born and raised anywhere else.

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