S06.E16: Last Day On Earth

[ShadowSixx]

One thing I was wondering about, do you think that Glenn was beat up, he looked like he could barely walk. I can also imagine that Michonne would put up a fight when they were cutting her hair and taking her vest. Rosita looked pretty tearful.

 

You also notice that when Rosita was captured her hair was in a ponytail and when we see her again, her hair is hanging loose. Who knows what punishment she received. The women probably got slapped around while the men got beat cause of the apperance of Daryl and Glenn. 

 

We know 100% that it's not Carl since Negan said if anyone moves cut Carl's other eye out and feed it to Rick.

Edited April 5, 2016 by ShadowSixx

[Pete Martell]

The biggest struggle I have with the show these days continues. I don't feel like anything ever actually happens, or that I don't really know the players anymore. Not like I did in seasons 2 and 3. Many people didn't like so much talkiness then, but that's when we learned what made them tick. They have so little downtime now, I feel events just rush by and things happen to these CHARACTERS not these PEOPLE. Even when they have downtime, they make stupid OOC decisions and trucks full of supplies end up under water.

 

I don't think stupid decisions are that OOC for the group, so I didn't really mind the loss of supplies. I think I minded it more when I realized it was to set up the Hilltop storyline, to say they were even more desperate because they lost the truck. It would have been better to have kept the truck but decide they need more food anyway, because clearly they would.

 

What bothers me more is when they just pile up and feel repetitive, which is what happened in the last few episodes. They took an interesting idea about whether the group was becoming too hardened and getting in over their heads, and then muddied it with a lot of idiot plotting about Denise and vengeance for Denise, and running around in the woods, and so on. I thought the episodes from the Jesus debut up to the one where Denise died were decent and allowed for some complexity, but they couldn't stick to that - they had to go the dumb, cluttered route. 

 

I never felt like we learned much about the characters in season 3, but I do agree about season 2. The disappointing part is that's what Alexandria should be. I saw a reviewer claiming the show was wrong to have them go to Alexandria because now they are clean and have showers, and they need to be hungry and dirty. I don't agree with that (and they have rarely been hungry or dirty for most of the show's run anyway). I think Alexandria should have been what we only saw glimpses of - how do people react to "normal" life? Unfortunately the attempt with Rick and Jessie was godawful, and they have not shown any of his new normal (I hate that term, but I don't know how else to put it) with Michonne. We saw a bit with Tara, which I did like. We saw some with Carol, and I think Carol needed this story, but it became oddly overwrought over the last few episodes. I want to see more of the everyday. I know a lot of people hated it, but I really liked the montage a few episodes ago where you saw day after day of Olivia stocking the shelves, Morgan training, etc. If they did this too often it would be called boring, but for me nothing is more boring than idiots wandering around the woods. 

[slade3]

It's a shame that the controversy, as much as I understand it, will overshadow how good the cast was this week. I really have not seen Andrew Lincoln give a better performance than he did in that final 10 minutes, and that moment where Morgan shot the shit out of that guy, and you could see the pent-up anger and madness with every bullet, was superb work. 

 

I agree. I was saying this earlier to my husband. It must suck to have done such a terrific job only to have it completely overshadowed by the cliffhanger, and overall feelings of mediocrity about the episode. I don't think any review I read mentioned AL's performance. 

[Madding crowd]

The problem I had with Carl locking Enid in the closet was that he doesn't own her or get to make decisions for her. If Rick decided that she could not come with them fine, but Carl doesn't get to decide what Enid attempts to do. Not to mention that locking someone in a closet when you expect to be gone for days and possibly forever could be a death sentence. If their compound got overrun or burned down, she would be trapped without food or water and would die. Carl doesn't get to just decide when someone dies.

 

I hope they plan to show us more on how Negan gets so many people to follow him, considering he will likely burn, maim, torture or kill all of them at one time or another. It appears he is constantly looking for things to punish for. Since his men outnumber him 100 to 1, why do they put up with it? I know they are getting food but they can clearly see that other communities are getting food and not having their faces burned.

 

In regard to Rick's reaction at the end, I only found it odd because it mimicked Carol when she was captured by the women Saviors. If he was faking in some way, it seems out of character. And if it was a real reaction, maybe it should teach him a lesson that bragging so much about being able to destroy everyone and take over everything.

 

And in regard to the cliffhanger: the reason it bugged me so much was because I had seen so many interviews or snippets of interviews with the cast members claiming they couldn't sleep for weeks, sobbed and hugged each other etc. And this was not in spoiler threads either. Obviously, this lead me to believe something pretty horrific would be happening. Nothing really happened as far as the viewers saw (beyond the fear they felt being captured). And if it's true they have no idea who the victim is, why would there be sobbing and trauma? Whoever does the press for the show should have stuck to the tried and true: it will be exciting. 

Edited April 5, 2016 by Madding crowd

[Pete Martell]

Dial's full of shows, especially on Sunday night.  

 

Unfortunately most of those shows kind of suck.

[jaigurudeva]

Oh, no! Negan killed the camera man! Does this spell the end of the blood-spattered lens effects?

[blackwing]

I have been a loyal viewer since the beginning, but my patience with this show has really worn thin. I have found this season to be particularly slow and boring. It's always the same. There's always an evil group for the past few seasons now. The whole business of morality between Morgan and Carol took way too much time.

I get that the group can never be safe and happy, otherwise there would be no show. But is there ever going to be an endgame? Or does it just continue on aimlessly until the show creators get tired of it?

Personally, I couldn't give a crap who Negan killed.

[ParadoxLost]

And in regard to the cliffhanger: the reason it bugged me so much was because I had seen so many interviews or snippets of interviews with the cast members claiming they couldn't sleep for weeks, sobbed and hugged each other etc. And this was not in spoiler threads either. Obviously, this lead me to believe something pretty horrific would be happening. Nothing really happened as far as the viewers saw (beyond the fear they felt being captured). And if it's true they have no idea who the victim is, why would there be sobbing and trauma? Whoever does the press for the show should have stuck to the tried and true: it will be exciting. 

 

From the Talking Dead, I understood that the cast acted the hell out of these scenes while they only filmed Negan.  So I do believe that they had that experience while filming.  The idiot show runners just didn't feel the need to show it.  Actually, I bet they did film it even though they said they didn't and the season premiere is the last 10-15 minutes from the perspective of CDB instead of Negan.

Edited April 5, 2016 by ParadoxLost

[Madding crowd]

Well, I was speaking from the viewer's point though. I'm sure many types of scenes are emotional for actors, but the indication was definitely that this would be the be the viewer's reaction as well. It was pretty hyped up in the media. I would think they would have played it down just a bit, if we were not going to see anything really emotional or scary. I think you are right that even if they didn't show the victim, showing the reactions of a couple of people would have caused more of a emotional reaction. 

[tennisgurl]

Oh my God, would the Saviors SHUT THE FUCK UP FOR 5 MINUTES?!?! I thought the governor was long winded, but this is like a whole colony of boring ass evil speech givers. They just talk and talk and TALK and its the same crap over and over and over and they would get so much more accomplished if they would just close their damn yaps every once in a while! Dear lord!

 

I call such bullshit on the cliff hanger. All the foreshadowing and build up and hype for a huge emotional moment was ruined because of a cliff hanger. They would have had more balls if they just showed whoever died.

 

That being said, the actors were especially great this week. Its weird to see JDM here, as I had kind of gotten used to him as Alicia's smirky love interest on The Good Wife, plus on like 30 other TV shows. He does do a good job, but, much like his minions, he has never been told that silence can be gold. I hope their next batch of bad guys have all taken a vow of silence or something.    

[Macbeth]

Given the point of view shot at the end  -  if felt like it was coming from the viewer's pov - so we all got Lucilled.

 

So many people here made fantastic points. - I am still at the "bad show you suck" level of analysis.

[mmecorday]

Five minutes before the episode ended, I almost got up and went outside to smoke my post-episode Marlboro (yeah, I know, horrible habit, but I have cut down to three a day.) I was ready to tell my girlfriend, "You tell me what happens. I'm too chicken shit." But I toughed it out and 24 hours later I'm realizing why the ending was so horrific -- beyond the fact that a character was getting his or her skull bashed in repeatedly by a psycho with a barbed wire wrapped baseball bat. The fade to black and the screams and sobbing in the background reminded me so much of the audio tape of the mass suicide carried out in Jonestown.

[Pete Martell]

I will admit that I find lead Tron knight hotter than JDM. grrrrowl!

 

I thought the knight was hot (it helped that he looked a lot like one of my strong soap crushes - Mikey North on Corrie [https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/533723652840488961/agOm5gvW.jpeg]).I never pay a lot of attention to JDM in most of his projects, but I was always way too attracted to him as John Winchester, even though John was an emotionally abusive nightmare. I'm not sure I will feel the same way on this show, but I did think he looked damn good in the finale, even with that silly slick back look. 

[ParadoxLost]

Given the point of view shot at the end  -  if felt like it was coming from the viewer's pov - so we all got Lucilled.

 

That Is exactly how I felt and it was funny that one of the first things out of Gimple's mouth was that they didn't intend it that way so we aren't alone in thinking it.

 

I think this is the biggest problem with the show.  The character deaths and fakeouts are all about the viewers not the characters.  When it comes down to it, that was what Glenn's dumpster death was.  It was to upset the viewers over a "shocking" death and stir up hype for as long as possible.  Even being a fakeout, it would have been much, much better if the characters were allowed to react to it instead of it being nearly a half dozen episodes focused on other things. 

 

I don't like the show being about how I as a viewer react to things.  I prefer it being about how the characters react.  That is what interests me.  If the characters don't care if they lose someone then neither will I. The relationships that drive the viewers to care who lives and who dies are beginning to whither from lack of attention.  At this point, if Rick, Michonne, and Carl are safe, I'll likely shrug the death off.  I still have affection for Daryl and Carol but I'm not sure their bonds are strong enough anymore to move me that much because it will bother Rick but no one else and not for long which is a sad testament for the show.  Everyone else, won't bother me.

[scrb]

Gimple said on Talking Dead that there would be seasons of Negan.

 

The ones who escape Lucille may wish they hadn't if they have to listen to Negan bore them to death for years.

[sally-can-wait]

The problem I had with Carl locking Enid in the closet was that he doesn't own her or get to make decisions for her. If Rick decided that she could not come with them fine, but Carl doesn't get to decide what Enid attempts to do. Not to mention that locking someone in a closet when you expect to be gone for days and possibly forever could be a death sentence. If their compound got overrun or burned down, she would be trapped without food or water and would die. Carl doesn't get to just decide when someone dies.

 

Completely agree. I was honestly more upset about this then anything else in the episode. Carl has no place making decisions for Enid. None. 

[AnnaMayWong]

Rick has always thought of his family first and foremost and that includes all the group that went with him to ASZ. They are his family. Rick was afraid of going to ASZ but Michonne is the one who told him he needed this for Carl and Judith, he knew that they could not be living on the road but he needed that reassurance from her. Everything that Rick has done has been to take care of his family, his entire family.

Negan on the other hand could care less about anyone, they killed all the people at the Library because they dared to try to get away from them. And when you saw the Library, what exactly could they give Negan and his gang - books to read. Negan and his gang are nothing but big bullies who prey on people. Look at what Dwight said to Daryl, "we will go to your community and we will get anything and anyone we want", so basically they were saying that they would take food and weapons but also women for the gang. Sure Negan may think that he is getting the best of Rick but that won't happen. It may not happen today or tomorrow but one day Rick will exact his retributation againt Negan and the gang.

Oh, YES, indeed.

[ShadowSixx]

Gimple said on Talking Dead that there would be seasons of Negan.

 

The ones who escape Lucille may wish they hadn't if they have to listen to Negan bore them to death for years.

 

Oh goodness seasons of Negan and his pontificating Saviors. Don't know if I'll be able to take seasons of Negan. If they strip down the cartoon character vibe then maybe and also get him and his saviors to STFU. I can't take all that talking. 

[Sighed I]

Oh, no! Negan killed the camera man! Does this spell the end of the blood-spattered lens effects?

LOL! We can only hope. This is at least the 3rd time they dipped from that particular well in Season 6B alone.

[Pete Martell]

Oh goodness seasons of Negan and his pontificating Saviors. Don't know if I'll be able to take seasons of Negan. If they strip down the cartoon character vibe then maybe and also get him and his saviors to STFU. I can't take all that talking. 

 

It really doesn't mean much, given that he's going to appear in "seasons" (this season and next season) even if he keels over at the start of the season 7 premiere.

[AnnaMayWong]

So much yes to your whole post. They've been screwed before. Rick watched the Governor lop off Hershel's head right in front of him. He's been tied in front of a trough while people had their throats slit 3 feet away from him. Beth got her brains blown out within arm's reach. He's been kidnapped, outnumbered, outgunned, beat almost to death, and literally brought to his knees before this. They're hopeless, helpless, and stuck at the moment, and they're going to lose someone, but cowering like a dog is not something that's in him, or at least this particular scenario wasn't enough in my mind to produce that.

The only thing that makes any sense to me is that he wanted to present himself that way in order not to draw harm upon Carl. I will at least make that my head canon, and that his kernel of psycho is still burning bright to kill the hell out of everyone twice for this.

Uuh huh. Yaaas.

[TVFan17]

I can't handle an extra chatty Negan and his gang of '70s porn star-looking rejects for too many seasons, but if he/they would stop talking so much and would just pop up once in a while to kill someone or be generally menacing, that's fine.  I don't know if Negan could ever just kind of assimilate or blend in and live a quasi-'normal' villain life.  Like the Governor, for example.  The Governor was a bad guy who did bad things, but he was living kind of a normal lifestyle at certain times, interacting with regular folks for a while.  He was a villain who might actually sit down and have dinner with you before killing you, and might actually share some tidbits about his life pre-ZA.  In other words, he wasn't terrorizing people every minute of the day.  He did calm down at times, before getting fired up again.

 

To me it seems that Negan and company are "on" all the time, just terrorizing people all day long, every day, and will pick on or kill whoever they find.  That's the impression I get.  So if Negan is sticking around for longer than just Season 7, then I really wonder how that will play out.  I wonder if he will, indeed, have Rick's people working for him for a while, constantly checking up on them, or if he will move his gang into Alexandria, or if Negan and Rick will just chase and threaten each other around the woods and back roads all season.  I am interested to see how it plays out because, the way the episode ended last night, I just couldn't envision where everyone would go from there.  I couldn't imagine Negan letting anyone leave.

Edited April 5, 2016 by Sherry67

[Eyes High]

It's a shame that the controversy, as much as I understand it, will overshadow how good the cast was this week. I really have not seen Andrew Lincoln give a better performance than he did in that final 10 minutes, and that moment where Morgan shot the shit out of that guy, and you could see the pent-up anger and madness with every bullet, was superb work.

 

Lennie James is so good. So good. Pairing him with Melissa McBride was a great idea, since I think they're among the best actors on the show. Now, if we could just get them some scenes worthy of their talents...

 

Andrew Lincoln blew me away with his depiction of elaborate bravado slowly devolving into pants-shitting terror this episode. Outstanding work. He was acting rings around all of his scene partners this episode, even JDM's creditable attempt to make the best of a terrible speech.

 

I have been a loyal viewer since the beginning, but my patience with this show has really worn thin. I have found this season to be particularly slow and boring. It's always the same. There's always an evil group for the past few seasons now. The whole business of morality between Morgan and Carol took way too much time.

 

I realize part of the Morgan/Carol storyline was to show, rather than tell, what happened to the library people at the Saviours' hands, but it feels like it could have been a lot shorter. Why not just go directly from Morgan searching for Carol to Morgan finding the Saviour menacing Carol? No patching up, no Carol explaining her reasoning (which she already explained via note, anyway), no Morgan stupidly losing Carol, no interlude where Morgan searches for Carol again, etc.

 

Did anyone notice that after Carol says "No, probably not," the Saviour mouths "Motherfucker!" before he turns away? Ha!

 

And to whoever said it upthread, I hope cute ginger armoured guy sticks around. (The dude on the horse wasn't half-bad, either.)

 

Speaking of cute ginger armoured guy, I guess he was the guy looking for his horse, meaning the guy Morgan stopped Rick from killing. It fits neatly into Morgan's "Everything comes back around" theory, since if Morgan hadn't stopped Rick from killing him, the guy wouldn't be looking for his horse, and he wouldn't have stumbled across a badly wounded Carol and offered assistance. Is Morgan in league with the writers or what?

Edited April 5, 2016 by Eyes High

[BellyLaughter]

Why the hell do any of these characters think it is remotely a good idea to even entertain the idea of having babies in an apocalypse??? Abraham I'm looking at you - you big horses ass!

If Rick and Michonne find they are with child at any time during the run of this show I think my head may explode. She's a not the only sensible one left - if she succumbs to OTP fan baiting I'm done.

Edited April 5, 2016 by BellyLaughter

[jsbt]

I mean, I'll admit it, I'm not outraged or full of fury. Of course they cliffhangered it - 'who will die?' That's an old TV staple. All the thinkpieces with outrage and trying to make it this huge earthshattering injustice crack me up. This could've practically been a Dynasty cliffhanger 30 years ago. But I'm not deeply invested in Negan or Lucille either.

 

I can see why people are pissed, but I don't think it was filler or a fakeout. I thought the dread and suspense built incredibly well for the first hour-plus - all the roads blocked and all these incredibly ominous scenes they kept coming across. It reminded me vaguely of some old British ghost horror pictures, where mood was everything because their budgets were minimal. The final tableau with the circle of whistlers was terrifying. You believed our crew had finally been pushed to their limits. The fear the actors all played takes a lot of guts and security in their roles to do after all this time playing badasses.

Jeffrey Dean Morgan was fine as Negan - considerably less annoying than the comic thus far but with plenty of the actor's charm. A little of Negan still goes a long way for me, though. (Also great - Steven Ogg from Grand Theft Auto V as Negan's top lieutenant.)

The problem for some people, I think, is that TWD often picks premieres or finales to experiment with mood and tension and it's debatable whether that's the right time for that. I know a lot of the audience isn't here for that, either; they are within their rights to want big drama. This was not necessarily that - it was all just the slow, grinding, and (IMO) terrifying build to the final scene. Which I enjoyed a lot, more than I enjoyed Negan. I've complained about the repetition of the human threats in the past, but because of this episode I finally felt the Saviors were something different, the real deal. It was because of their psy-op approach. Fear works when you build it, as opposed to gore. I cannot work up the outrage to be incensed that I did not yet get to watch someone be be rendered human clay with a baseball bat. It's just not what I watch this show for, and I don't find the storylines the reviewers seem to find inexplicable (Carol, etc.) so implausible. They work for me.

But hey - that's me.

 

I also really liked the Abraham/Eugene scene, and the evolution of the Carol/Morgan story - finally, he did the right thing and I gained a lot of respect for him.

Edited April 5, 2016 by jsbt

[Miles]

This whole storyline rings false to me. Who has so many people without everybody in that region knowing about it? That's just impossible. Plus how do they all get fed? From the few settlements they are plundering? Oh please.

Considering how many people get killed on a daily basis on this show it seems like half the US population survived the apocalypse and yet there is still stuff around to scavange.

Maybe it's because of this that I just don't care who got killed with the bat. If you want to make me care, make the obstacles the heros have to face at least somewhat realistic. Otherwise it doesn't feel real and dangerous.

[LeeMoon]

This whole storyline rings false to me. Who has so many people without everybody in that region knowing about it? That's just impossible. Plus how do they all get fed? From the few settlements they are plundering? Oh please.

Considering how many people get killed on a daily basis on this show it seems like half the US population survived the apocalypse and yet there is still stuff around to scavange.

 I was going to say the same thing. There were way too many men there for the final scene. It didn't make sense.

 

As for Gimple, he has been really making things worse by giving interviews with his reasons for the cliffhanger. People aren't that stupid. He sounds arrogant to the point it seems he mocks the audience. I don't remember Dallas, so I can't compare the cliffhangers, but to me it sounds like he thinks of himself as being on Joss Whedon's level, and he is not. There was always a payoff for things in Buffy, Buffy's big moment in season 5 happened, there was no cheap cliffhanger and it was much more effective.

 

If Gimple wanted to show the big Negan moment from two different POV, Rick's group and Daryl's group, which is what is going to happen I think next year, then episode 16 should have been 15, then a cliffhanger, and then the finale would have reveled who died. He failed as a showrunner because his job is to pace things correctly.  If he thinks there is a large group of viewers that is going to catch up on season 6 and tune in for the premiere next year live with the regular viewers because of the suspense, he is wrong. People will check online and find out who died.

 

I think what annoys me the most is that we are stuck. I was looking forward to the discussions about the next stage, what's going to happen now, how is Rick going to handle things. The next six months should have been fascinating. Instead, disappointment took over everything. Who cares who died, we already discussed this from every possible angle.

Edited April 5, 2016 by LeeMoon

[Anela]

Pretty good episode with the exception of the god awful cliffhanger.

AL did a hell of a good job, he actually made me feel what he was feeling.

I despise Comic Negan, I have a feeling that I'm also going to despise TV Negan. Way too cartoonishy already, they just omitted the f-bombs.

I actually enjoyed the Carol/Morgan storyline.

The endless Lucille speculation that is going to continue for another 7 months, makes me want to jump out of a window.

Did anyone else expect Katniss Everdeen to pop out from behind the trees when the whisteling started? No? Guess it was just me then.

 

I kept thinking of the Hunger Games, too. 

 

Gimple said on Talking Dead that there would be seasons of Negan.

 

The ones who escape Lucille may wish they hadn't if they have to listen to Negan bore them to death for years.

I don't think I could take that. 

 

We're only just a day and a half past the finale, and I'm already seeing comments about what's coming, on facebook. I might have to duck out of the groups on there - I don't mind a spoiler if I seek out a thread myself, or the occasional slip-up here, but people are commenting about things I hadn't heard anything about, until the last few days. 

[BetyBee]

I've had a couple of days to think about it and have rewatched once and here are a few thoughts on the finale:

 

Yesterday I thought Abraham was Negan & Lucille's victim because I remembered him looking rather defiantly at Negan.  While that is still a possibility, on rewatch, I saw that others did so too, or at least met his eyes.  Today I think it was Eugene whose head was bashed in, based on his good-bye to Abraham and the fact that he gave Rick the recipe for making bullets.  If he were to live, that recipe would be in his head for future plot development, but I fear that his head is no more.

 

I'm sorry to say that I don't think the actor who plays Aaron is a very good actor.  I feel like I can see him "acting" - it just doesn't come naturally.  I like the character though.  All the other actors sold it, especially during that final scene. 

 

Hasn't Morgan killed many times, at least killed walkers?  I don't know why he had to empty the gun.  He should have been able to kill Carol's attacker with one bullet.  

 

When Morgan and the knight guy shook hands, shouldn't they have also introduced themselves?  That is typical human behavior and I would have to guess that for some reason, the writers don't want us to know who those people are for six months.

 

All in all, the finale was rather implausible - all those roadblocks - how did the Saviors even know that CDB would be on the road that day? It seems that most people are disappointed at being left hanging regarding Negan's victim and I am too.  It was kind of a cheap ending, but this show does not have good writers, so I'm not surprised.  Still, I will be back in the fall.  I think Negan will bring some improved storylines and that next season will be better.  I guess I'm an optimist!

[slade3]

Why the hell do any of these characters think it is remotely a good idea to even entertain the idea of having babies in an apocalypse??? Abraham I'm looking at you - you big horses ass!

If Rick and Michonne find they are with child at any time during the run of this show I think my head may explode. She's a not the only sensible one left - if she succumbs to OTP fan baiting I'm done.

While I even give people the side-eye for wanting to bring a child into this world these days, I think I understand it here. If you don't have hope that this apocalypse will eventually end, why are you bothering to fight for survival? You have children to repopulate the world and hope one day the virus will become dormant.

 

I wouldn't want to run around with a baby in that world, but if they stop having children, this will be Children of Men, won't it? With everyone running around trying to save/kill the one woman who managed to have a baby in a world where no one can have babies anymore. And ten years out, when the virus is dormant or cured, the five 50-something women left will look at the five 50-something men left and they'll all say "Well, this sucks." 

 

In other words, I think it's what Glenn said to Abe, "We're trying to create something here" or whatever.

Edited April 6, 2016 by slade3

[lulee]

Hasn't Morgan killed many times, at least killed walkers?  I don't know why he had to empty the gun.  He should have been able to kill Carol's attacker with one bullet.  

The first hit should have been enough but he unloaded on Ol' Savior. 

 

Nitpicking but most bullet wounds on this show seem to bleed up, forward, backward ... any direction that would make it look visible to the audience - which isn't necessarily realistic, but Ol' Savior's wounds were almost bloodless. It was like him lurching in the air as holes appeared.

I haven't been entirely satisfied with Carol's trajectory this season. I think there was a logic to it, but the execution failed at times. But I did think those final moments with Ol' Savior and Morgan worked - the taunting of OS so he'd come back and shoot again and her exhausted plea to Morgan to just let her go - those felt like they made sense for Carol at those points in time. 

[TigerLynx]

As I said I'm not worried about Rick, Carl, Maggie, & Michonne that much. Their percentage rate is very low on being Lucielle'd.

Long running characters I think Glenn & Daryl are in trouble the most. There's not going to be much of anything if it's Sasha, Rosita, Eugene, or Aaron that gets the bat because they haven't left a mark on the group just yet. If it is one of them four it would be very bad storytelling. It needs to be someone that the whole group cares about in general.

I'll be happy and jump over the moon if it's Abe. I want him gone but if I'm going by history characters I always want dead never gets the axe and always characters I like that gets struck down.

 

 

I agree with this.  I don't want Glenn or Daryl to die, I don't care if Abe dies, and it would be a copout if it's another red shirt death.  I didn't like the cliffhanger ending.  I didn't think it was necessary.  

 

I am going to be even more annoyed if Aaron (or one of the other not main characters) was only on the RV so he can be the death.  It's not that I'm all that attached to Aaron (I do like his character).  It's just a lame way to have someone convenient to be killed so that Negan and his group will look evil or bad or whatever without killing off a core character.  Either kill a fan favorite/main character or don't, but don't jerk the fans around in the process.  

 

Of course, that's nothing compared to the annoyance I have at all the contrived stupid decisions the writers had normally smart capable characters make in order to get them to this point.

Edited April 5, 2016 by TigerLynx

[peach]

The problem I had with Carl locking Enid in the closet was that he doesn't own her or get to make decisions for her. If Rick decided that she could not come with them fine, but Carl doesn't get to decide what Enid attempts to do. Not to mention that locking someone in a closet when you expect to be gone for days and possibly forever could be a death sentence. If their compound got overrun or burned down, she would be trapped without food or water and would die. Carl doesn't get to just decide when someone dies.

 

I didn't say it was okay for Carl to lock her in a closet, I just said it's not the end of the world.  I'm sure Michonne can give him some guidance in this area.  Actually, Michonne should have locked Daryl in a closet last week. 

 

While it did seem like all of Alexandria decided to run off this episode, the rest of the town is all still there.  Enid is in the armory, and he didn't gag and bind her. I'm sure someone found her, or she got out herself.  I'm sure she'll return the favor at some point.

[RustbeltWriter]

I've been discussing this episode with friends and they say that someone like Negan flourishing in the zombie apocalypse is inevitable but I'm not so sure. Given what we saw in this episode, I think a guy like this would rise up and burn out quickly. He would have some initial success as he clearly seems charismatic and ruthless but I have a hard time believing someone in his inner circle wouldn't have become fed up with the monologues and horrific violence. Just his speech about someone having to die and that of his henchmen saying they always killed someone in groups they ran across would be enough to cause hurt feelings and inspire someone to eventually do him in. I just don;t see someone like him surviving this deep into the situation.

[Nashville]

Ok, let's see what I can guess up regarding the Champ of the Apocalypse:

1. Negan wants productive workers who are docile, or at least controllable; strong enough to work, but no strong enough to give him problems.
2. This immediately lets family members off the hook (Glenn/Maggie, and Rick/Carl - maybe Rick/Carl/Michonne even, depending upon how observant Negan is).  By leaving families intact for the present, Negan always has leverage to maintain control over any one of them by threatening their loved one(s).
3. Probably lets Aaron, Rosita, Sasha and Eugene off the hook as well.  All three came across as nonconfrontational - especially Eugene - and all appear strong enough to work without appearing strong enough to cause any immediate problems.

 

Which leaves us:

1. Daryl: wounded enough at present not to kick up much of a fuss, but will heal up eventually.
2. Abraham: strong as an ox, and just did his level best to stare down this Negan motherdicker....

 

Any guesses who my money's on...?

 

Even more unbelievable: Negan and the gang let the Wolves... the uncontrollable Wolves.... live? 

 

Entirely possible the Saviors and the Wolves haven't had much contact yet. The Saviors are roughly 100 miles west of the ASZ, while the Wolves are concentrated SSE of Alexandria (where Noah's family lived and died).

 

 

I think I land where I do because what I took away from Hilltop more than anything is that they were thriving.  They were building more because babies were being born.  They had food.  Nice high walls.  Yes, they lost one teenager in a violent way (could just as easily have happened because of walkers, seeing as they have no weapons).

 

"Have no weapons"???  Hell, they appear to be supplying spears to everybody on teh Eastern seaboard.

 

 

DisaPOINted! Iwas fuming that Carl locked Enid in the closet. So, if Alexandria is attacked, she's unable to fight?

 

Yes, Carl locked Enid in a closet.

A closet full of guns.  Enid went in the closet in the first place to "get a few pistols", remember?

If Alexandria is attacked, Enid is probably in the best position of anybody in town.

 

 

Oh, no! Negan killed the camera man! Does this spell the end of the blood-spattered lens effects?

 

[peach]

I've been discussing this episode with friends and they say that someone like Negan flourishing in the zombie apocalypse is inevitable but I'm not so sure. Given what we saw in this episode, I think a guy like this would rise up and burn out quickly. He would have some initial success as he clearly seems charismatic and ruthless but I have a hard time believing someone in his inner circle wouldn't have become fed up with the monologues and horrific violence. Just his speech about someone having to die and that of his henchmen saying they always killed someone in groups they ran across would be enough to cause hurt feelings and inspire someone to eventually do him in. I just don;t see someone like him surviving this deep into the situation.

 

But violent cartels are ruling parts of Mexico, and that's with a supposedly functioning society around them.   Things like this exist all over the world in the present day.  I don't know about the monologues, though.  I expect monologuing is done through automatic weapons.

[RustbeltWriter]

But violent cartels are ruling parts of Mexico, and that's with a supposedly functioning society around them.   Things like this exist all over the world in the present day.  I don't know about the monologues, though.  I expect monologuing is done through automatic weapons.

That's an excellent example but what we see with drug cartels is a fairly high turnover at the top. The head honchos run things and build up the organization but in doing so they make enemies and frequently get removed by the authorities (which are non-existent here) or by those who want that position for themselves. I think Negan would have shined briefly after building things up but eventually someone would pop him and take over.

[Timetoread]

I will admit that I find lead Tron knight hotter than JDM. grrrrowl!

 

Sir Lancelot certainly did qualify in the mildly fine category.  But I'm sorry JDM is, and has always been, a head turner with a starring role in my romantic daydreams.  Tall, dark and handsome - and that VOICE!!  That said, the speechifying of  ALL the Saviours is driving me bonkers.  I was thinking as they kneeled in front of him, pretending, as I do that I am in their shoes that my final words would be, "So are you going to kill me anytime soon?  Please make it soon.  You talk more than any woman I've ever met!"

 

Why the hell do any of these characters think it is remotely a good idea to even entertain the idea of having babies in an apocalypse??? Abraham I'm looking at you - you big horses ass!

If Rick and Michonne find they are with child at any time during the run of this show I think my head may explode. She's a not the only sensible one left - if she succumbs to OTP fan baiting I'm done.

 

Because reproduction is an animal instinct.  I would imagine in the case of an apocalypse that mother nature is making every human of childbearing age simply ache to make babies.  If nobody had children because things are bad, there would be no humans.  But people in famines have babies.  People in times of disease make babies.  People who are in bondage make babies.  When half the women died in childbirth died and half the babies that were born died, babymaking continued unabated.  Not because they can ensure those kids a life of helicopter parenting and iphones, but because where there is life there is hope. 

[Eln5]

This reviewer wrote an open letter to Scott Gimple, and also sums up my feelings perfectly:

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/tv/open-letter-walking-dead-producers-article-1.2588251?cid=bitly&utm_content=buffer2679d&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=NYDNGossip+Twitter

[mightysparrow]

This whole storyline rings false to me. Who has so many people without everybody in that region knowing about it? That's just impossible. Plus how do they all get fed? From the few settlements they are plundering? Oh please.

Considering how many people get killed on a daily basis on this show it seems like half the US population survived the apocalypse and yet there is still stuff around to scavange.

Maybe it's because of this that I just don't care who got killed with the bat. If you want to make me care, make the obstacles the heros have to face at least somewhat realistic. Otherwise it doesn't feel real and dangerous.

 

Maybe the Saviours were holding an 'Evil Henchman' convention with Negan as the keynote speaker and Camp Dinner Bell stepped on his entrance. 

[that one guy]

 But after all the hype, all the months of trusting the show runners' repeated assertions that "the wait would be worth it", in the end, at least for me, this whole season-long "here comes the Dreaded Negan and the Saviors" story line [bum bum bum] felt like nothing but a long con and it's left a bitter taste in my mouth.

I knew they were going to do this because they did the same thing with Gareth - announced him at the beginning of the year, but didn't actually introduce him until the end. 

Carl didn't want his woman anywhere near that.

 

She's not "his woman," which is what made that whole thing so dickish. In the immortal words of Karen Page, "I am not yours to protect." 

How did such a group of TEH EVUL people get drawn to Negan?

 

I'm pretty sure he recruited all these people the same way he's recruiting Rick now. He's killing someone to make a point. But he doesn't want to kill Rick and the group, he wants to hire them because he finds their capacity for violence impressive.

 

And, I mean, the world being what it is, I'm guessing that life in Savior territory is much less dangerous and violent than it is in the chaos of Georgia. Provided you do what you're told. It's a dictatorship, and 50% is an unreasonably high tax rate, but there's order. And then Rick and his group start blowing stuff up and killing people, not to mention driving a huge herd of zombies that way. From Negan's point of view, he's established order throughout the area. It's probably taken at least a year and involved fighting a number of battles. And now Rick comes in with night raids and rocket launchers etc and starts rocking the boat.

 

They probably believe the world requires them to be homicidal psychos to keep everybody in line, but from their point of view they're the heroes, and they're what passes for the government. People don't call themselves "the Saviors" when they view themselves as the bad guys.  Negan is played as a really disturbing psychopath, but I question that choice - it wouldn't be hard to get me on his side. I should make an "I Stand with Negan" T shirt just because.

[Watcher0363]

Negan's arrival is ushering in the new era of Feudalism. Which is the only way humans can survive in an apocalyptic world. Feudal systems then feudal territories then feudal states. Then the wars then the oligarchies then the Monarchs. The slow slog back to democracy.

 

The one thing the Walking Dead seems to have gotten right, I do not know if it was by accident or plan. But in times of great upheaval and crisis. People say they are pledging their support or loyalty to a cause or group or way of life. When in reality they are pledging their loyalty to a person. The center if you will.

[piequinn35]

I am disappointed. tsk tsk :(

[Macbeth]

Rick's hubris and major tactical mistake was bragging to the first small-group of armed men that his group had killed Negan's men.  Bragging about it did him in.

 

Negan didn't know it was Alexandria - if he had he wouldn't have sent just that one truck full of men Carol ran into.  Negan knew there was a new pack, but didn't know where they were.

 

Once Rick bragged - game on - they were going to hunt him down.  All hands on deck.  And the smart thing Negan did was to try and figure out if the group Dwight had kidnapped were with Rick - which he did when he put Michonne's vest and hair and Daryl's arrows on the chain of walkers.

 

I actually liked the slow build of no matter where the RV went they encountered roadblocks.  It was a good way to show the group being hunted and having no where to turn.   

 

 

[Nashville]

I've been discussing this episode with friends and they say that someone like Negan flourishing in the zombie apocalypse is inevitable but I'm not so sure. Given what we saw in this episode, I think a guy like this would rise up and burn out quickly. He would have some initial success as he clearly seems charismatic and ruthless but I have a hard time believing someone in his inner circle wouldn't have become fed up with the monologues and horrific violence. Just his speech about someone having to die and that of his henchmen saying they always killed someone in groups they ran across would be enough to cause hurt feelings and inspire someone to eventually do him in. I just don;t see someone like him surviving this deep into the situation.

Maybe the speechifying is saved for special occasions - awards banquets, disciplinary actions, etc. ;)

Negan's arrival is ushering in the new era of Feudalism. Which is the only way humans can survive in an apocalyptic world. Feudal systems then feudal territories then feudal states. Then the wars then the oligarchies then the Monarchs. The slow slog back to democracy.

Totally totally agree. In the microcosm of the ZA, humans are re-enacting a few thousand years of social evolution in an extremely compressed time scale - and that historic trend has always been toward coalescence::

• Individuals.
• Tribes/communities.
• Fiefdoms/nation-states.
• Kingdoms/nations.

With CDB merging with the ASZ and extending recruiting efforts, Alexandria was already pursuing its own course towards conversion from Step 2 to Step 3.

Negan just did it faster.

[jsbt]

I actually liked the slow build of no matter where the RV went they encountered roadblocks.  It was a good way to show the group being hunted and having no where to turn.   

 

I love that whole build. It just gets more and more harrowing, more about fucking with them with these horrific tableaus (the lumber catching fire out of nowhere while Steven Ogg's voice comes out of the mist was really creepy) and you watch them slowly become very concerned and then desperate and finally afraid. The whole episode was played like a rising ghost story. Everyone in the RV did amazing work.

Edited April 5, 2016 by jsbt

[TigerLynx]

Negan and his group will eventually meet with more and more resistance because at one time ALL of these people lived in a free modern world.  It isn't as easy to oppress the masses when they know and have had real freedom and autonomy in the past.

 

I really want someone to kill Negan when he is stupidly rambling on about the new world and how bad he is, blah, blah, blah.  Bonus points if MIchonne chops his head off, or if Carol shoots him, and says, "You're the kind of man that it's a pleasure to kill."

[jsbt]

Negan and his group will eventually meet with more and more resistance because at one time ALL of these people lived in a free modern world.  It isn't as easy to oppress the masses when they know and have had real freedom and autonomy in the past.

 

 

I'd like to believe that, but I don't know that it isn't that easy when conditions become as extreme as they have - both from the dead and from people like the Saviors.

 

I do agree his takedown will be sweet and fully earned.

[catcory]

Carol can shoot him in the arms and legs and then Michonne can chop off his head, works for me.

[Nashville]

I actually liked the slow build of no matter where the RV went they encountered roadblocks.  It was a good way to show the group being hunted and having no where to turn.

A perfect example of what happens when a tactical thinker (Rick) goes head-to-head against a strategic thinker (Negan). Tactical is reactive, while strategic is proactive. Negan's strategy wasn't much different than that of Gareth's in Terminus, when the Termites used gunfire to herd CDB exactly where they wanted them; the only difference was scale.

As for the complaints about the astounding amount of work Negan put into capturing an RV...? Negan wasn't capturing an RV - he was capturing the entire community of Alexandria, and he knew it. Such was also the psychological warfare game Negan was playing with the over-the-top histrionics (the log blockade, the huge increases in manpower at each successive roadblock, etc.). Negan wanted to communicate as clearly as possible he had depths of resources (including manpower) CDB couldn't even begin to comprehend - resources which could and would come down on CDB and the ASZ like an avalanche at the first sign of resistance.

In THAT respect, I think Negan did a pretty fucking excellent job.

For the time being.