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bigskygirl

S02.E03: Jinger Flips

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I actually bailed before the end of the episode. I don't think I even made it halfway. Dull dull dull. I think what makes this boring show extra annoying to me is the forced smiles in th talking heads with the young women. Only Anna - and the boys - drop that three-tooth, keep-sweet smile. It doesn't always reach their eyes. And Jessa has a nervous giggle. It just reminds me of how they are raised not to be genuine, that everything is good because Jesus. Never mind what's REALLY going on. It feels fake because it is fake, and there's not even any fabricated drama or fun like on other fake reality shows. They lose, and the audience loses, too.

How I wish they would realize that they have turned their backs on a huge part of God's creation, including their own intelligence, talents, and emotions.

Right indeed.  They are either very scripted for this supposed reality show or really that dim.  None of them look comfortable talking to each other and they say they are all close.  What does that mean to them if that is all they can muster up.  Or they are all too scared to be themselves.  Do they ever tease each other, cut up, be silly?  The Bateseses do and it is so much more normal, recognizing they are still part of the cult.

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I thought of one more crossover that would be ratings gold! Jim Bob and Michelle meet Jo Frost! Not they would take her advice or anybody's.

 

They wouldn't. But her withering, bang-on commentary and exasperation would be very satisfying to watch.

Love this!  If you don't feel sure about leaving your infant with his/her father for an hour, perhaps you should re-think your choices.  For reals.  It's almost as if they don't feel safe being themselves with one another - always with the fake persona.  I couldn't live like that for a single day...

 

As children of mentally sick, incredibly intrusive control freaks, and Gothardites, and, for the final coffin nail, "reality tv stars," the Duggar kids have been taught every day of their lives -- and are still being taught -- to present a fake persona 100 percent of the time, to everyone, and even to themselves. Not only do they not feel safe being themselves with one another, I'd bet big that they wouldn't feel safe being themselves if they were all alone, locked in a room with soundproof walls, 500 miles from anywhere. It's tragic.

Edited by Churchhoney
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That episode (Jinger Flips) was six-weeks out from Spurgeon's birth.  At that point, husband and wife are still abstaining from sex.  What I noticed was a complete disconnect between Jessa and Ben and no mutual joy about the baby or each other.  Also, it was evident that Jessa was concerned about whether or not her toyboy hubby could cut it as a father of a newborn and Ben just seemed overwhelmed with the awesome responsibility of changing a diaper.  Also, what is Ben doing at home in the middle of the day?  Isn't he supposedly doing odd jobs for Jim Bob?

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Also, what is Ben doing at home in the middle of the day?  Isn't he supposedly doing odd jobs for Jim Bob?

Play-acting for the TLC cameras is THEE odd job for Jim Bob.

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Not only do they not feel safe being themselves with one another, I'd bet big that they wouldn't feel safe being themselves if they were all alone, locked in a room with soundproof walls, 500 miles from anywhere. It's tragic.

Of course they wouldn't feel safe there. Because God sees all and would punish them dontcha know. These poor kids are just sad.

Edited because wierd double post thing happened.

Edited by OSM Mom
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So I've been thinking a bit more about what it is with Jessa and Ben that bugs the hell out of me. I think it's that they still act like they barely know each other. No fun banter or joking allowed I guess. In that situation if I left my infant with my fiance, even I got home I'd be, "yahoo! You managed not to kill him"! And he'd be, "oh yeah I only dropped him on his head twice and nearly lit him on fire when lighting up a joint." Maybe that says more about us than them but they need to lighten the hell up. And we don't even smoke weed. Lmao

Your post is so funny & similar conversations were said in my house when Son of Barb was little. It's called having a sense of humor, which the Duggars seem to lack greatly and agree with you "they need to lighten the hell up." Plus these couples barely know one another & are now just getting to the point in their relationships when the rest of us would be deciding if this is THE person I want to marry & spend the rest of my life with? For them, they are already into their second years of marriage (for Dullards they will be heading into their third year in June) and already have a kid & are Counting On......

  

Right indeed.  They are either very scripted for this supposed reality show or really that dim.  None of them look comfortable talking to each other and they say they are all close.  What does that mean to them if that is all they can muster up.  Or they are all too scared to be themselves.  Do they ever tease each other, cut up, be silly?  The Bateseses do and it is so much more normal, recognizing they are still part of the cult.

We've discussed this over & over. I think we're seeing the real Duggars. They have been raised & brainwashed not to show true emotions. So even when they come across happy & smiling, we know different.
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Not only do they not feel safe being themselves with one another, I'd bet big that they wouldn't feel safe being themselves if they were all alone, locked in a room with soundproof walls, 500 miles from anywhere. It's tragic.

It's especially noticeable with the married couples. Bin/Jessa and Derick/Jill remind me of that initial stage in a dating relationship where you're always on your best behavior and trying to say the right things. The only difference is these people have been married for nearly two years and have kids. In their TH's, Bin and Jessa looked like two actors in an improv class trying to play the roles of husband and wife. Actually, I take that back, because real actors could make it look believable, lol, but you get my drift. Edited by BitterApple
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Cross-posting from the media thread, because this will likely hit the tabloids later today. More proof that this show is for the most part, scripted bullshit. Coments on this link from a guy named Eric confirm that he was asked to play the "interested buyer" of Jinger's auction car. No wonder the deal fell through; there wasn't one to begin with! 

 

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10153559677529077&substory_index=0&id=522989076

 

The Duggars' emotions may be real, because they've been raised to be essentially robots, but the storylines, down to that painful girls' day out at Mama Carmen's, are all FAKE! And no wonder those girls have nothing to talk about; they're already around each other pretty much 24/7/366. They've already talked about Mere rolling over ad nauseam without cameras present. What else do these people have to say to one another that hasn't already been said?

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It's clearly just bullshit tailored to whatever they think will float the leghumpers' boat. Baby talk, courtship talk, Christian Mingle ads.

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How much proof do the leghumpers need that the Duggars are flat out lying to them most of the time? My god...this isn't the first time they've been caught paying people off the street to fulfill a plot line. Remember the now-shelved episode when they supposedly bought clothing for a family in need (who had been hired to play along), then took it all back once the cameras stopped rolling?

 

I am pretty sure that took place at the thrift shop tied to Cross Church where Derick attended. Ugh.

Edited by Sew Sumi
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Eh, reality tv relies on this sort of crap. They can't just film anyone and anywhere.

 

You're 100 percent right about that, of course.

 

But there's something disconcerting about it -- to me, anyway -- when the completely manufactured reality is supposedly showing the reality of people who are very devoted and very morally upright Christians who talk for years about how their show is a ministry and intended to help people come to the true faith and so on. .... And when -- apparently -- a bunch of earnest dumb bunnies believe this and hold them up as exemplars of morality and of the faith. You really shouldn't warp and mess with what you hold as your highest truths like this or do false things that actually mislead others when your supposed aim is to lead them to the right, seems to me. If you have a "ministry," it shouldn't be a giant pile of phogna bologna.

 

And, in my opinion, if the Duggar kids were quicker on the uptake, they might realize that a Bible quote -- "The truth shall make you free" -- is most relevant to their situation. And would prove true for them, if they were willing to take a leap of faith to try it.

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If they are faking it anyway, why not make it entertaining? They need a new cast.

I wonder if TLC is kicking themselves for not sticking with the Bates family. They're more attractive and have camera-ready personalities. Their show on UP is cute and entertaining.

The problem with the Duggars is they're trying to stick with the old formula of wholesome, God lovin' kids who just happen to be on tv. Nobody wants to see that shit, because anyone with two brain cells to rub together knows it's a lie. And quite a boring lie, at that.

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Cross-posting from the media thread, because this will likely hit the tabloids later today. More proof that this show is for the most part, scripted bullshit. Coments on this link from a guy named Eric confirm that he was asked to play the "interested buyer" of Jinger's auction car. No wonder the deal fell through; there wasn't one to begin with!

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10153559677529077&substory_index=0&id=522989076

The Duggars' emotions may be real, because they've been raised to be essentially robots, but the storylines, down to that painful girls' day out at Mama Carmen's, are all FAKE! And no wonder those girls have nothing to talk about; they're already around each other pretty much 24/7/366. They've already talked about Mere rolling over ad nauseam without cameras present. What else do these people have to say to one another that hasn't already been said?

I am loving the Facebook comments. This guy's friends sound fun.

The Duggars' interactions are boring because they are not really allowed to develop any ideas that haven't been thought of, approved, and beaten to death before - by someone Gothard-approved. Any friends they are allowed are in the same boat. They can't even watch TV right, so can they even converse about current events (beyond parroting cult-generated fear and paranoia)? We know that when they were shown traveling on their old show, they mostly acted like ugly Americans instead of enjoying new cultures and experience.

Such a contrast with the Willis family, who have conservative and traditional beliefs - but they appear to have open minds and the kids don't seem stunted and stifled. They are articulate, they are allowed to express themselves honestly (it appears), and best of all, they have an array of fluid facial expressions. They can even back talk and cut off their dad then they disagree with him - and he is sort of patriarchal. Individuality has not been stomped out.

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You're 100 percent right about that, of course.

 

But there's something disconcerting about it -- to me, anyway -- when the completely manufactured reality is supposedly showing the reality of people who are very devoted and very morally upright Christians who talk for years about how their show is a ministry and intended to help people come to the true faith and so on. .... And when -- apparently -- a bunch of earnest dumb bunnies believe this and hold them up as exemplars of morality and of the faith. You really shouldn't warp and mess with what you hold as your highest truths like this or do false things that actually mislead others when your supposed aim is to lead them to the right, seems to me. If you have a "ministry," it shouldn't be a giant pile of phogna bologna.

 

And, in my opinion, if the Duggar kids were quicker on the uptake, they might realize that a Bible quote -- "The truth shall make you free" -- is most relevant to their situation. And would prove true for them, if they were willing to take a leap of faith to try it.

Or, how about this one:  "You shall not steal, nor deal falsely, nor lie to one another." Leviticus 19:11

 

From the episode – Jinger: "So, we got a call on the vehicle and so now we are just waiting for the buyer to show up so that we can meet with him."  This was a lie.  Eric did not call and was not a buyer.

 

Jeremiah: "Eric was wanting a car with a lot of storage room …"  This was a lie.  Eric never wanted to buy a car.

 

Jinger: "Unfortunately, at the last minute, the car deal didn't go through."  This was a lie.  There never was a 'car deal' with Eric.

 

This next generation of Duggars is without a moral compass for simple honesty.  It would be different if they had actually portrayed that scene as a rehearsal with a volunteer, teaching Jinger how to negotiate a car sale.   But they didn't.  The scene was presented as the factual occurrence of Jinger selling her first car.  Total deception.  Now, they will probably blame the evil media for catching them in lies and victimizing them.

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If the Duggars are willing to fake a scene, I am sure the Bates are willing to do the same thing to make themselves look good. I do not buy the ole the Bates are a better All-American family compare to the Duggars. I am sure there are some things the Bates would not want the world to know especially when it comes to their religious and political views. I call total bs when any family tries to pretend everything is peachy keen 24/7 on and off television.

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You're 100 percent right about that, of course.

But there's something disconcerting about it -- to me, anyway -- when the completely manufactured reality is supposedly showing the reality of people who are very devoted and very morally upright Christians who talk for years about how their show is a ministry and intended to help people come to the true faith and so on. .... And when -- apparently -- a bunch of earnest dumb bunnies believe this and hold them up as exemplars of morality and of the faith. You really shouldn't warp and mess with what you hold as your highest truths like this or do false things that actually mislead others when your supposed aim is to lead them to the right, seems to me. If you have a "ministry," it shouldn't be a giant pile of phogna bologna.

And, in my opinion, if the Duggar kids were quicker on the uptake, they might realize that a Bible quote -- "The truth shall make you free" -- is most relevant to their situation. And would prove true for them, if they were willing to take a leap of faith to try it.

The Bible takes a certain forced blinkered view to enjoy.

I think the show could be spiced up with pyramids of shame and rose ceremonies and eliminations back into the the TTH. At the very least, don't make these people shoot their scenes in the freezing yard because JimChelle are inside the TTH. Rent the J18+'s a house. I wanna see who is a lazy pig, who's the bossy one etc.

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What a difference a year makes! Something appears off with Ben. He no longer seems besotted with his wife. I wonder if it's because of the scandals or if he is just over the family, as a whole.

Ben chased Jessa because he wants to be the TV/mega church pastor with her as Tammy Faye 2.0. Josh's various scandals ruined Ben's "career" before it even began.
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I think the show could be spiced up with pyramids of shame and rose ceremonies and eliminations back into the the TTH.

 

Great ideas! They could call it America's Next Top Duggar or Big Jesus House or something.

Edited by Churchhoney
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Do they ever tease each other, cut up, be silly?

 

I think that when the cameras aren't rolling, there is a lot teasing going on and that it's all extremely mean; cruel barbs and taunts overlaid with a sugary veneer of Jesus-y "keeping sweet". As for cutting up and being silly, we've seen examples of their ugly practical jokes: trashing wedding cars, scaring Amy with a clown, trying to run down a cat. These are people who lack any real empathy and who don't really like or trust each other. There's a lot of repressed hostility that they're forbidden to express in any honest or constructive way, so it comes out veiled as "humor".

 

 
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Albanyguy, agree 100%. Their sense of humor comes in the form of pranks, which is basically having fun at the expense of someone else. In the Catgate video, you can clearly hear one of the younger kids yelling "Pow!" as the sled aimed towards the cat.

I think the kids vary in their degree of nastiness. Jana comes off as a decent girl whereas I think Jessa is a stone cold bitch, but generally speaking, these are not nice people.

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As for Jana -- she gave the stock answers she HAD TO give re looking for a guy with wisdom, Godly etc. BUT I think in that answer, she threw in a bit of what she realistically wants. I like that she said she wants an experienced/grown man, not a boy (ahem-- Bin); she wants a guy who understands the value of hard work and can hold down a job (ahem -- Bin and Derick); in another trailer she says she wants a guy who an get his hands dirty, not an office guy (ahem -- Derick); and she was honest in saying there has to be physical attraction. It would be great if she could land herself a fundie or conservative contractor/electrician etc. They make good money. And if she happens to land a guy who someone views women as an equal, I could see her jumping in and running/doing the books for a contractor business. Hell I could even see her learning some real tasks from him like electrical and then working with him to identify a house, buy it, and flip it for extra income. I think Jana is smart -- smarter than she's given credit for and there's lots of things she could do, except that in their world you aren't allowed to do ANYTHING unless someone puts a ring on it and in their crazy world by putting a ring on it when you've hardly met the person often means that they end up with someone who is controlling, borderline abusive, lazy, a serial cheater etc.

Jana also made a comment I found quietly snarky (I think in previous episode?) about how she was not going to settle for first one that came along...bit of a snark at both her sisters, especially Jessa who very obviously jumped at first opportunity for a man not really temperamentally suited to her.

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And to think this is the best footage they have to show on tv.

 

This show is the epitome of grasping at straws. 

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Love this!  If you don't feel sure about leaving your infant with his/her father for an hour, perhaps you should re-think your choices.  For reals.  It's almost as if they don't feel safe being themselves with one another - always with the fake persona.  I couldn't live like that for a single day...

I doubt any of the Dugger kids were allowed to get to know themselves much at all, and considering they grew up in front of a camera, even outside of being stunted b their parents, that would tend to stunt things as well. "TV Personas" all of them.

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Does Chad Paine have any single brothers?? They would be perfect for Jana, if they had Chad's DIY personality.

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I'll say it again. I don't think Counting On has ANY chance of going on much past a very weak season or two. The few episodes they've shown so far have been incredibly flimsy, and show no signs of growing stronger either. Let's face it - the Duggars have never had a production team known for their creativity, innovation etc. I don't think anyone wants to see Josh again either - not even die-hard leg-humpers. Even if TLC is misguided enough to put him in front of the cameras again. Would ANYONE actually be able to watch him and NOT be continually-reminded of how he molested his sisters and cheated on his wife - multiple times? I just don't think so. Throw in the towel, TLC - it's over. Time to shake the trees and find something - or someone - else to hang the network's fortune on. The Duggars are yesterday's story. Wrap the fish with them and move on.

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Besides the weddings & births, even the old show was running out of plots. Remember they were down to showing MEchelle with some of the older kids playing chess, buying glasses, learning the violin or whatever instrument. And who could forget the go carts? They got a few episodes out of them-building them (backwards no less)& the big race followed by a family picnic. Ok, maybe that was all in one episode but still nothing exciting to watch & producer driven.

Totally changing subjects here. Once again, I felt so sorry for Meredith & those stretchy headbands that her mother insists on her wearing. The one time the band was over her ears, pressing them down. Time to give them back to Aunt Jill to wear. She definitely could use some sprucing up.

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I don't know if it's really the fault of TLC or of the Duggar family itself. I've watched a few episodes -- somehow thinking it would be different than 19 Kids bc it only focuses on the oldest few and not the parents and not the 4 yr olds. Yet you've got a half dozen kids age 18+ (the twins and upwards) none of whom DO ANYTHING. They're BORING. Forget professions, it would even be interesting if a few of them were allowed to have and did have and actively pursued hobbies or friendships. Nothing R-rated, but would it be so terrible if Jed and Jeremiah did something like play on a community football team like Ben did growing up -- and we could see them prepping for games, trash talking (in Jesus approved ways), and hanging with their buddies for pizza after a game?? JD is fairly handy and it seems like he had bought a house/land earlier -- now that we know Jana likes that kind of thing too -- would it be so terrible if we saw the 2 of them do a house flip together?? Not the "sanitized" version where the girls do "made for TV projects" -- i.e. stand around while the brothers handle it or JB calls in free help to take care of it; but an actual project together with them acting normal -- say Jana telling JD that the design of the kitchen doesn't work or track lighting is totally 80s or insisting on hard wood floors to up the value of the house or whatever. If Jinger is into photography and they're such a well known family, I find it shocking that she can't hang up a shingle and run her own business -- from little kid photos to wedding photoshoots or whatever for fundie/conservative families in the area who would LOVE to say Jinger took their pics.

 

None of these ideas are earth shattering but they'd be interesting to watch bc they'd involve interaction with people. Anytime you interact with people -- there are funny exchanges; sometimes you run across a cute boy or a cute girl who'd be perfect for your bro; or you get to befriend some client or coworker and they invite you over to hang with their friends/fam and more genuine conversation ensues.

 

These kids have been raised in such a way that they have NO passion for or even INTEREST in anything. So TLC comes up with projects/storylines for them, they do it bc they need to make money, and yet it seems like they have zero interest and are just acting a part in a play. If this family intends to make its fortune from TV, it better find a way to be interesting enough to watch on TV and that may involve setting aside some of its beliefs that the world is out to corrupt them and start interacting with the world -- bc right now I'm not seeing 10 seasons of this, I'm seeing 1-2 seasons, max. 

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Besides the weddings & births, even the old show was running out of plots. Remember they were down to showing MEchelle with some of the older kids playing chess, buying glasses, learning the violin or whatever instrument. And who could forget the go carts? They got a few episodes out of them-building them (backwards no less)& the big race followed by a family picnic. Ok, maybe that was all in one episode but still nothing exciting to watch & producer driven.

Totally changing subjects here. Once again, I felt so sorry for Meredith & those stretchy headbands that her mother insists on her wearing. The one time the band was over her ears, pressing them down. Time to give them back to Aunt Jill to wear. She definitely could use some sprucing up.

They wouldn't have to do so much fake made for TV stuff if the kids actually you know -- got up and went somewhere every day. It could be school, it could be work, it could be the race track to bet on horses. But it would be something that would be authentic so you could follow them in their actual daily lives, not in the -- TLC is sending a camera crew tomorrow and wants us to cook up a project -- so everyone get ready to go cart yay!!

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Do you think the Duggars knew that was an actor and were in on the set up?

I watched it again (briefly) and I think they had no clue. TLC set it up for them. Certainly this realty show trickery has been played before.

I just don't think the Duugars were smart enough to act. They can barely speak on camera.

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What is the deal with feeding Spurgeon?  Can Jessa not express a bottle of milk for Ben to feed to him while she is gone?  She actually has to rush home if he gets hungry?  Really?

 

I can't believe this is the long-term plan ... never going more than a couple of miles away from home and waiting for the text that says she needs to rush home the whole time she is out. But they made no mention at all (that I heard) of expressing milk.  And if you can nurse, you can express milk, right?  Or is there some Fundie policy against it?  It would be a convenient way to keep a woman tied down.

 

I am thinking this was just a really sad, pathetic attempt to create some tension in the "plot" of Ben the Babysitter.  Everyone was probably disappointed when Spurgeon slept the whole time because they didn't get to film Jessa rushing in to save the day with her magical mammary glands.  What a stupid episode.

Maybe it's a personal choice of theirs that he only gets the breast, and not a bottle filled with breast milk?  I dunno. There are people like that out there.  Whatever floats  your boat.

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Even assuming that she plans to pump and introduce a bottle, a lot of bf-ing moms who don't have to return to work quickly tend to wait till at least 6 weeks to introduce the bottle so that the baby doesn't get confused. So it's not surprising even by normal non-Gothardite standards that Ben wouldn't be prepared to give a bottle.

Edited by Abstract
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Jinger's really troweling on the eyeshadow these days. She looks cute otherwise though. Could there actually be a stylist on set? Their clothes don't look as cheap.

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Even assuming that she plans to pump and introduce a bottle, a lot of bf-ing moms who don't have to return to work quickly tend to wait till at least 6 weeks to introduce the bottle so that the baby doesn't get confused. So it's not surprising even by normal non-Gothardite standards that Ben wouldn't be prepared to give a bottle.

 

That makes sense, I guess. 

 

Assuming you are right, it's a shame they didn't include this tiny nugget of information in the show.   It would have made the episode a hundred times more interesting if for no other reason than it would have shown they are actually putting some thought into raising their son.  Instead we get Jessa saying "I'm leaving" then a couple of "wonder how it's going" then Jessa walks in and says "I'm back."  Ben's big line was announcing Sprugeon's diaper smelled bad.   It was just .... nothing.  Not even worth taping, much less showing on TV. They could have been talking about taking out the garbage.  

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I so agree! I would like to see all those topics that you suggested. Now just wait-- soon, TLC will steal all your ideas and the show might get more interesting! If it's real! Not fake acting!

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If they are going to continue making this show and pretending that it is real, I wish they would dig a little deeper. Instead of 20 minutes of showing Ben as a bumbling idiot, tell us what some of their beliefs are and how they reconcile that in the real world. Supposedly there is a recommendation that newlyweds spend more time together at the beginning of the marriage and that neither should work in that time frame. So if Jessa and Ben did that, how did they make ends meet?

Ben is seen leaving and coming home quite a bit. So tell us is he working. If so, doing what? Does he have goals and plans?

Instead of doing what feel like Christian Mingle - Marry my daughter ads, show us what the girls really do. Is Jana taking up the slack on the buddy train with two married sisters? Does Jinger help? Have they thrown buddy system out the window? How are Jana and Jinger coping at home with the work (plus the added crap of helping Jessa)?

So they want to show us Anna is doing better. Okay...how is she prepping for her husband's release? Did she get rid of all computers and smart phones he would have access to? Did she password protect them? How are they planning to survive with no jobs? What have they said to their kids about his absence? What have they said about living with the Duggars?

​Quit calling Josh's issue as one of bad choices. He molested children and cheated on his wife. Instead of being vague about it, get real and honest. I would rather see Anna be conflicted or real about her feelings than hear her pretend that Josh is just down the block and busy.

When the show was just a series of specials instead of a weekly episodic type thing, the draw was how does a family with that many children do the every day living. How do you grocery shop? educate? discipline? travel with? care for? etc. Those questions have been answered (truthfully or not). So to me there is no premise for the show. If I want to watch uneducated and unemployed idiots raise a baby, I can watch my cousins.

I think these are all great ideas! Instead, it's like the Duggars just want us to gaze upon them, but we have no right to know anything significant about them. So why are they on my TV???

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None of these ideas are earth shattering but they'd be interesting to watch bc they'd involve interaction with people. Anytime you interact with people -- there are funny exchanges; sometimes you run across a cute boy or a cute girl who'd be perfect for your bro; or you get to befriend some client or coworker and they invite you over to hang with their friends/fam and more genuine conversation ensues.

 

 

Beating my dead horse yet again, I'd say that since Ma and Pa Duggar are psychologically quite similar to the insane people who brought me up (in my opinion, anyway), the things you mention here are exactly what they would never ever ever encourage or allow.

 

These eventualities -- which, as you say, would happen if the kids were permitted to live anything like normal lives -- seem quite inconsequential and benign to people who've lived anything like the average life. However, they're exactly the kind of unpredictable, uncontrollable thing that would threaten JB's total psychological and physical control over his family. The only reason he lets them go out into Gothard land a bit is because Gothard land is set up for the sole purpose of driving offspring and female spouses back into the eternal and total control of their patriarchs. It's what the whole damn cult is based on, and so the cult is the only outside exposure that isn't deeply threatening.

 

In JB's mind, his very being depends on maintaining that control at all costs. The kind of life you're describing for the young "tv family" Duggars is likely completely unthinkable for their father (and maybe their mother, too).

 

JB's so greedy, too, that, perhaps, big big big big big money might tempt him to allow something else if finances got exceptionally tight, but I'm skeptical that even that would change things. I'll bet that his psychological mania for control outweighs even that consideration, as it certainly would have in my family.  I think this seems close to unbelievable to most who weren't also raised by malignant narcissistic control freaks. But there it is.

 

For much the same reason, they'll also never ever ever tell their any of the family truths -- about their beliefs, their activities or anything else -- to the world's dangerous outsiders. And it's also the reason why they never discuss their reasons for doing things or analyze anything. Allowing people to think about the "whys," even of their own behavior, is deeply deeply threatening to control-freak narcissists, always. Because they realize, down inside, that they have no way of knowing or controlling what you might find when you raise even the simplest question. So questioning and discussing or having a real conversation of any kind -- even about seemingly benign subjects -- would also constitute betrayal of JB's total fortress of control, and it's why Gothardism is 100 percent based on recitation. JB's (and BG's) deeply disordered narcissistic personalities can't abide any such opening of windows. They're terrified of it.

Edited by Churchhoney
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If they are going to continue making this show and pretending that it is real, I wish they would dig a little deeper. Instead of 20 minutes of showing Ben as a bumbling idiot, tell us what some of their beliefs are and how they reconcile that in the real world. Supposedly there is a recommendation that newlyweds spend more time together at the beginning of the marriage and that neither should work in that time frame. So if Jessa and Ben did that, how did they make ends meet?

Ben is seen leaving and coming home quite a bit. So tell us is he working. If so, doing what? Does he have goals and plans?

Instead of doing what feel like Christian Mingle - Marry my daughter ads, show us what the girls really do. Is Jana taking up the slack on the buddy train with two married sisters? Does Jinger help? Have they thrown buddy system out the window? How are Jana and Jinger coping at home with the work (plus the added crap of helping Jessa)?

So they want to show us Anna is doing better. Okay...how is she prepping for her husband's release? Did she get rid of all computers and smart phones he would have access to? Did she password protect them? How are they planning to survive with no jobs? What have they said to their kids about his absence? What have they said about living with the Duggars?

​Quit calling Josh's issue as one of bad choices. He molested children and cheated on his wife. Instead of being vague about it, get real and honest. I would rather see Anna be conflicted or real about her feelings than hear her pretend that Josh is just down the block and busy.

When the show was just a series of specials instead of a weekly episodic type thing, the draw was how does a family with that many children do the every day living. How do you grocery shop? educate? discipline? travel with? care for? etc. Those questions have been answered (truthfully or not). So to me there is no premise for the show. If I want to watch uneducated and unemployed idiots raise a baby, I can watch my cousins.

You nailed it. I can't believe I'm comparing the Real Housewives of New Jersey to the Duggars but on RHONJ we got to see some real moments. We saw family & friends waiting to hear the verdicts when Teresa & Joe went to court & their reactions. Bravo had specials showing how Joe & the girls were doing when Teresa was in prison. I'm sure some of it was producer driven & fake but we did get to see what family milestones Teresa missed like Gia's dance & 8th grade graduation & how they handled it. Even tho at the beginning Joe & Teresa said they told their youngest daughter that Teresa was "away for work" instead of telling her the truth, they at least approached the subject.

With Anna, why can't we hear her muttering while picking up toys "yeah my idiot husband did what he did, so he's not here to help me with the kids & I'm tired of doing everything & being a one parent family." Or tell us what they say when Mack & Michael ask "where's Daddy"? Show them drawing pictures for Josh & going to the post office to mail them.

Come on TLC, get with the program. If we can think of newer, more interesting episode ideas in 10 minutes, you should be able to. Give Andy Cohen at Bravo a call for some help.

Adding: Church Honey- you are so right, Boob holds the reigns over everything!!

Edited by Barb23
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Church Honey hit the nail on the head. Jim Boob rules over everything in that family even when you're married & have moved thousands of miles away. But you would think TLC would tell them that if they don't start doing more interesting episodes to keep viewers, they will be off the air. Maybe they have & as usual, Boob won't listen.

Do you think the Duggars knew that was an actor and were in on the set up?I watched it again (briefly) and I think they had no clue. TLC set it up for them. Certainly this realty show trickery has been played before.I just don't think the Duugars were smart enough to act. They can barely speak on camera.

They may not have had a clue that guy was just a set up. That's funny just thinking about it.

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Bravo, Churchhoney. I'm just sorry your wisdom and insight came at such a high price.

Here's what I wonder...do you think JB or Michelle has any self-awareness at all??? Are they able to take a step back and evaluate themselves on even the most basic level? Or have they had their asses kissed and their dysfunction enabled for so long that they're incapable of it?

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Bravo, Churchhoney. I'm just sorry your wisdom and insight came at such a high price.

Here's what I wonder...do you think JB or Michelle has any self-awareness at all??? Are they able to take a step back and evaluate themselves on even the most basic level? Or have they had their asses kissed and their dysfunction enabled for so long that they're incapable of it?

 

Good question. I'm not sure, but my guess would be that they're no longer able to for the reason you mention -- too much ass kissing and long-term enabling that's done nothing, and continues to do nothing, except reinforce and reward their very worst tendencies. (I'm looking at you, TLC, Gothard group, People magazine, Mike Huckabee et al and leghumpers, Duggar audience)

 

I don't get a really clear picture of the differences between them or who's worse, although JB pings my "born a malignant narcissist, always a malignant narcissist" radar really really hard while Michelle doesn't really. I wouldn't put a lot of faith in that impression being right, however. It and some other things, though, leave me sort of believing that Michelle was probably once capable of a little questioning and changing, while JB never ever was, at least from the time he was in late adolescence. And the ship has sailed with Michelle by now, I expect, since I think she's simply gone round the bend and lost touch with reality completely some time ago.

Edited by Churchhoney
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XrystalPond, well said. I especially agree there's nothing particularly fascinating about watching Jessa with ONE baby. Neither she nor her husband work, so what's the big deal?

Anna is throwing the shade with her subtle digs and comments, but Boob won't let her go off the reservation. What could've been a juicy storyline is dead in the water.

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At some point the execs at TLC should be able to see that the shows are floundering because there is nothing new.

I doubt they give two shits as long as ratings hold. They'd show an hour of the Duggars standing in line at Aldi if it brought ratings.

 

That said - from what I gather from the ratings numbers from the fist CO special on - after this next episode airs it looks like viewership will probably be 1/3 of the December premier. That's not good news. I honesty hope ratings losses kill the show. SOMETHING NEEDS TO HAPPEN, and it's just not going to. Let it die.

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It wasn't this episode(haven't watched it yet) but I wonder what happened to them shopping at Aldis? The fall feast was not shopped for there.

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They shop on TV where a production assistant can get a deal of merchandise for advertising and where a store will let them in with cameras.

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I doubt they give two shits as long as ratings hold. They'd show an hour of the Duggars standing in line at Aldi if it brought ratings.

 

TLC isn't interested in tipping the viewers off to the Duggars' actual political or religious beliefs and they certainly aren't interested in exposing what they actually do all day. If they were, they would have done so years ago. Imagine the fun if they'd broadcast actual video of one of Joshley Madison's speeches while still working with the FRC (or divulged that yes, that's where he was employed) or how about one of those "home church" services without censorship? Maybe they should give the real reason why the Duggar children slept in street clothes, or why their adult daughters must be chaperoned while visiting with their cousin Amy. If the Duggars are radioactive now (according to the advertising exec interviewed in In Touch over the past day or so), one can only imagine what would happen if the vast majority of the viewing public knew the truth.

 

TLC is not interested in making watchable and entertaining TV. (How many seasons were the "Gypsy Sisters" and other trainwrecks featured on their network, for instance?) They're interested in anything that brings in money and helps them with their $24 million write-down problem. (Hey, Nance! How's the latest advertiser boycott organized by a "small vocal group" going?) And the constant references to Joshley Madison in "Counting On" are foreshadowing.

 

Go ahead, TLC. Prove me wrong. I DARE YOU.

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Reminder: This is an thread is to discuss what happen in this one episode. Take the what TCC should film, will not film, and other off topic discussion to the appropriate thread. Thank you.

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