S06.E13: ALDC Does Vegas

[OnceSane]

The ALDC heads to Vegas; Ashlee and Brynn are now official members of the team; Kendall stands up to Ashlee for the first time; the mothers are concerned that the girls are becoming too involved in the drama.

[Rylee]

Every time I see the title of this episode, (not just this thread) I can't help but think it was an intentional play on words meant to sound like, "Debbie Does Dallas," which is not cool since it's a show involving pre-teens and teens.

[Rylee]

"We're role models."

Hahahaha, that's a knee slapper.

[spanana]

Why would the moms be shocked that their bad behavior and way of dealing things has rubbed off on the kids?  Of course they think settling things by screaming is the way to go.  That is what you have taught them.

 

Though I laughed that Kendall thinks "using her voice" equates to screaming your frustration.  Again, pot meet kettle.  Go talk to Nia for an example of using your voice in a calm and rational manner.   Nia, at least as depicted, has learned to stand up for herself with Abby and others but in a totally calm and rational way.   I wouldn't care if Kendall had spoken up if she did so without a temper tantrum.

[Chewy101]

Nia also went to comfort Brynn because that poor girl is so alone.

Kendall calling any mom mean over her own mother is crazy. Jill has been the most conniving, scheming and nasty witch this show ever had. She was once the mom trying to wedge her kid into the group and stepping on toes, now she acts like it's bad behaviour. All because Kendall's position is threatened by Brynn's. 

 

That was the worst scene ever on this show for me. The level of hypocrisy is so hard to stomach. And watching Kendall week after week become more and more like her mother is terrible. She has always been too emotional for this culture.

 

And props to Mackenzie for calling out the moms' BS. First in the car, then at practice. These kids DO need to learn to handle this kind of crap if they want to be in the business. But it's sad when it's their own moms instead of professionals. What do you do when the bully and jerk is your own mother. Jill needs a kick in the butt so hard.

 

In the old studio, they could be witches in a separate room and the kids did their own thing. Now it's a disaster area.

 

Watching Abby kiss Maddie's butt was painful. She knows the kid is ready to drop her, and the one submissive mother goes with her.

 

Kendall leaving would not be because of Ashley, it would be because of Jill. Jill has said plenty of crap about the kids. She is a shark.

 

So happy to see Mackenzie out of the baby doll dresses and stupid pigtails. She is becoming a cute little firecracker.

 

I thought Brynn did a great job of remembering her facial expressions in her solo.

 

Once again, Maddie was gossipy in confessional. I know she is just a kid, so I wish the producers would edit that stuff out and leave the public snark to the moms.

 

Holly being the group conscience and the voice of reason was refreshing. She used to be the sane one. Nice to see sane Holly again.

Edited March 30, 2016 by Chewy101

[KaveDweller]

I think Melissa is really crazy. She and Maddie were talking about Ashley/Brynn being upset when she got her jacket like there was absolutely nothing done by anyone else to provoke that reaction. And Mackenzie says she was upset about talk that it was rigged (since that hurt her too) and Melissa said no one ever said that? She knows that cameras record things she says, right?

 

I actually liked Abby's advice to the girls that sometimes staying is beating the person who walks out.

 

Everyone's reaction to JoJo's joke about Monopoly "jail" made me laugh.

 

Maddie said in her confessional that she thinks there's drama because the moms don't like Ashley.  So....what caused the drama in the first five seasons?

 

Ashley should not have said that Brynn had a better season than Kendall in front of them. But that's really not the most terrible thing she could have said. Kendall will never make it in show business if that comment makes her cry.

 

And Jill DOES say mean things about Brynn. There was even an episode where Jill was yelling at Brynn when Ashley wasn't around. I loved Brynn saying she's not a brat so she won't yell in Jill's face.

 

I think Kalani should have won, her dance was beautiful. I also loved her talking head..."I just don't want to fall and look like a fool. She seems the least affected by all the drama."

Edited March 30, 2016 by KaveDweller

[spanana]

Maddie said in her confessional that she thinks there's drama because the moms don't like Ashley.  So....what caused the drama in the first five seasons?

 

Well Kelly and Christi naturally.  Duh.  Don't you know Melissa, Holly and Jill have never made trouble a day in their lives?

[WildFlower87]

First 10 minutes of this episode was an embarrassing hot mess.

 

Jill is a freaking hypocrite and has lost her damn mind. Always tries to put all the blame on someone else. She is officially a psycho! Maybe Jill made the same sort of deal whereby she acts like a royal bitch so her kid gets more airtime?

 

Kendall please be quite. Your mom talked about Brynn and we didn't see you tell your mom to stop. What a first class little jerk Jill has raised. Kendall is beyond a brat. If Jill is upset because Kendall is getting a "bad rap" she has no one to blame but herself for raising a spoiled, entitled, disrespectful, self-centered piece of work. Who the hell does this little girl thinks she is? Mature my ass!

 

Mackenzie has been the unbiased voice on this whole Ashlee situation. She sees Ashlee's faults but unlike everyone else she's not pretending the other moms & Kendall are faultless. Melissa & Maddie shushed her when she said how wrong it was to act like her trio didn't deserve the win. They were so intent on tearing down Brynn & defending their best friends the Vertes' that they took down Kenzie too. But then again this isn't the first time Melissa & Maddie have treated Kenzie like a redheaded stepchild. Kenzie is nothing like her mother & sister, and that's a good thing.

 

I can't stand Melissa and her huge ego and will not miss her when she leaves the show. 

 

Jessalyn is such a trouble making shit stirrer. Everything that comes out of her mouth is to cause drama about a situation she has nothing to do with.

 

These mothers are still complaining about Brynn getting solos? Nia nor Jojo get solos because they don't win. Sorry to say, but it's true. 

Edited March 30, 2016 by NickDisnCart

[Chewy101]

Jessalyn is such a trouble making shit stirrer. Everything that comes out of her mouth is to cause drama about a situation she has nothing to do with.

 

 

Remember how awful she was when she was trying to get Jo Jo on the team? She broke down scores and picked on the other kids, mouthed off to the other moms.... Basically the exact same thing every new mom has done. Do they all have amnesia?

[RCharter]

Jill is doing Kendall no favors by encouraging her behavior.  And I think Kendall feels perfectly okay being an attention seeking brat because it gets her positive attention from her mother.  I don't think this has anything to do with Kendall's hurt feelings, and much more with Kendall looking for a way to manipulate the situation....which is what she is learning from Jill.

 

As someone above said, Nia has stood up and "used her voice" in a way that has been rational and mature.  Throwing a temper tantrum like a 2 year old isn't "using your voice" its just throwing a temper tantrum.

 

And Jill has spoken all sorts of crap about Brynn right to her face and that little girl hasn't uttered a word.  I sincerely hope that Jill is doing this for camera time, but when I see how Kendall behaves it makes me think that this is really who Jill is which is why Kendall feels license to act like a brat.  I have no idea what Jill is hoping to accomplish for Kendall's career unless she wants to set Kendall up for a lifetime of being  a drama queen on reality TV shows.

 

I also don't like that the other mothers have gotten their kids into the act, when Jojo asked "where Ashleys friends were" and said "true" when ashley said she had none, I thought that was a little uncalled for....I like Jojo so I let it slide, but it makes me think that Jess is also talking smack about Ashley at home and making Jojo feel its okay to shade her.  And Ashley has done nothing to her.

 

And I hate that all of these mothers are making me side with Ashley because I don't like her either!

 

These mothers are still complaining about Brynn getting solos? Nia nor Jojo get solos because they don't win. Sorry to say, but it's true. 

Its ridiculous, Melissa clearly stated that they all understood the criteria for getting a solo this week was winning the trio from last week.  

 

If Melissa wanted Nia or Jojo to get a solo so badly she should have encouraged Abby to give them McKenzie's solo.....but Melissa never quite wants it bad enough to take from her own child.  Her sense of injustice is not quite so great that she would give her McKenzie's solo

 

On another note I wanted to cheer for MacKenzie for pointing out the truth in the car, which is that all the other mothers said that the competition was rigged.  And then for Melissa to try to pretend like it wasn't the truth was just ridiculous.  I hope MacKenzie spends more time with her father or with an aunt or anyone who isn't Melissa.

 

As for Maddie, I don't know how she is going to become an actress, because she couldn't even pretend to be interested in dancing for the ALDC anymore.  I think she is going to very quickly become a bit of a egotistical monster.

oh...and Jill can take all the seats with her "you are not allowed to speak to my daughter or look at my daughter or speak when my daughter is in the room."  Really, because she and I would have had a discussion about how I actually AM allowed to speak when your daughter is in the room, and I'm allowed to look at her and to suggest otherwise is absolutely ridiculous.  

[BusyOctober]

I keep hoping Melissa's ridiculous extensions will get caught in the door on one of her dramatic flouncing out of the room exits.  And she's always playing with her hair and stroking the extensions like they are some kind of pet.  If (when) Maddie leaves ALDC, I wonder if Melissa will remember to take Mackenzie? 

 

All of these idiot moms have spoken badly about the kids in front of them.  I guess Ashlee is just getting the brunt of the hate because this is her freshman season.  Next year, if this show is picked up again, Ashlee will be a veteran and some new dim witted fame whore mom will be the punching bag.  It happened that way for Jill, Jess & Kira.  Now somehow those harpies are scions of teamwork and togetherness? 

 

Jill is as crazy as ever.  When she was coaxing her brat kid out of the bathroom, she called her "Kendall K". Just stop trying to make that kid happen.  No one calls Kendall that.  She isn't as talented as she might have been thanks to Jill's prioritizing camera time over technique.  Her singing "career" has gone nowhere. I don't even think she can make it as a print model anymore.  I used to think Kendall was very photogenic, but she's developed her mother's perma bitch face and ugly attitude. 

 

Kalani looked stunning as usual.  What a gorgeous girl.  I hope if she wants a professional dancing career, she gets away from Abby and gets better training.

[RCharter]

I must say that I did love the group dance.....what a pretty tribute to David Bowie.  

 

I liked all the solos this week -- I think its was very shrewd of Abby to put Kilani in a solo....in Vegas....in heels.....in more of a Broadway/Vegas style dance routine.

 

I'm never sure what to make of Abby....so much of the time I think she is a monster, and I'll never agree with the way she has treated Nia or some of the other girls in the past......but there does seem to be a core of honest and sincere concern and care for the girls too.  Its hard to suss it all out.

 

And....now I'm back to disliking Ashlee....because really?  Brynn just won, why not just say "I'm so happy Brynn won"  why keep putting her win in terms of someone else's loss?

Edited March 30, 2016 by RCharter

[Diane Mars]

Every time I see the title of this episode, (not just this thread) I can't help but think it was an intentional play on words meant to sound like, "Debbie Does Dallas," which is not cool since it's a show involving pre-teens and teens.

And me, "Holly does Hollywood" (Holly Body, in "Body Double")

[Rylee]

I got the impression, (from her talking head) that Kendall thinks that everyone is behind her, supporting her, just waiting and cheering for her to stand up to Ashlee. Kendall is as delusional as her mother. 

[Lamima]

 

 I hope MacKenzie spends more time with her father or with an aunt or anyone who isn't Melissa.

 

 

Likely does spend more time with someone else since Melissa is ALL about Maddie and has little time or use for poor Kenzie...though that is a blessing in disguise.

 

I came on here to see what folks were saying. I think it's disgusting how they are treating Brynn and her mom. And Jessalyn should have some compassion as she was in the exact same place when they were new. EXACT! But those Bosses got her to fall in line rather nicely, didn't they? Ashlee isn't falling in so easily and that's what put a 'Bee in their bonnet' (that and the fact that Brynn is a great dancer). Eff if I'd ever stick around for that crap...and Ashlee is paying fees to Abby...for this crap. Abby needs to put a stop to it because Brynn and Maddie are her best dancers and Maddie has one foot out the door.

 If (when) Maddie leaves ALDC, I wonder if Melissa will remember to take Mackenzie? 

 

 

OMG....too funny!  

[RCharter]

^^I don't think Ashlee is an angel either, and I think her using the other girls to pull Brynn up is highly objectionable.  I think I referenced it before, but instead of just saying "I'm excited Brynn won" its like "Brynn beat Mackenzie!" and I just don't think thats really necessary.  Take joy in your child's success, but it seems odd to take joy in the loss of another child.  And Ashlee has engaged in some shit talking when she should have been trying a little harder to integrate herself.  

 

But she has done nothing to earn this level of crap that the other mothers are giving....especially Jill and Jessalyn.  It disgusts me that their attitude is coming out in their kids.

 

And 20x worse is Melissa chastising Mackenzie for being an independent enough thinker to bring up an alternate point of view instead of drinking the kool aid that Melissa was trying to feed.

[holly4755]

while Hooly is not always presented in the best manner, Nia always is, I have never seen a scene where she was selfish or egotistical, she is always shown as nice and mature and fair.  Even when  slighted by the others, she handled it well and didn't get bent out of shape. I think  the discussions between Holly and Nia are the most positive things on this show. 

But Kendall, whole other picture, she is generally shown as a mean girl, not always just on this show, but in real life. Wasn't she the one who started the picking on Jojo when a few of the girls were in England? All the ones there joined in including Mattie and Mackenzie and one other, can't remember who. 

Jojo seems to comfort and congratulate people a lot but I am never sure if it is just for the camera because she always seems to face the camera while doing it, but then she never does the mean girl act.

 

Jill had one good year, the year when Holly looked bad, it was weird, but she is back to being reckless with her behavior. It is not pleasant to watch her do what I say not hat I do, but she is not doing Kendall any favor by letting her get a bad rep on TV..

 

Kehlani, just seems so over it. never involved and always mature.

If I were to rate the mothers, I would have to know all their names, and I have to admit I ignore most of them. 

to rate how the children are coming off with good reps it would have to be

1) Kalani and Nia tied for first place

2) these are up and down depending on the show  Mattie, McKenzie an Brin

3) Kendal - good luck ever getting a job in anything including walmart.

 

 

According to Jill It is not her fault, the show is edited - no surprise there, the show is also pretty staged. Your job is to protect your child and not let her look bad, this is what she is missing. If it is indeed all  editing, JIll must have really done something to piss off the producer.

Edited March 30, 2016 by holly4755

[sofiah]

Best part of the episode was Mackenzie explaining to her idiot mother that Ashleigh wasn't upset for "absolutely no reason" -- she was upset because Melissa and Jill were saying the competition was rigged and that Brynn didn't really win.  The way Melissa told her to be quiet, and "we're not going to use that word" was plain creepy.  And then Mackenzie is like "well... that's what happened". LOL.

 

Ashleigh shouldn't have said anything in front of Kendall - but I didn't think what she said was that bad.  She could have said "you're jealous because... Brynn is a better dancer... Brynn is more flexible... Brynn has better legs/feet/line", but saying that she's had a better season is not that offensive, imo.

 

I think maybe that was edited?  Because right after Ashleigh said "it's all over social media" - what's all over social media - the fact that Jill is jealous?  And all the other mothers were trying to comfort Kendall saying it wasn't all over social media.   Also later on Kendall said "I'll never forget what Ashleigh said about me".   The whole thing was weird.  

 

Either way, Kendall's bratty attitude can't be faked/editted, and neither can Jill's utter hypocrisy.  

[Odelia]

Kenzie is a funny one, in the sense that in the Ireland video she was the meanest of all. And there have been scenes (eg in the reunion? show) where she has been kind of mean to Maddie. But on the other hand she's definitely the smartest of the Ziegler's and the most down to earth, so the brattiness she has displayed probably spawns from the treatment she receives from Melissa.

Jojo.. agreed, I love Jojo, I love how she wears sneakers and stuff to awards instead of being posh, she stays true to herself. But she is very media savvy and I prefer kids to be kids.. I guess that's too much to ask for from a kid on a TV show.

I don't think Kendall is a mean girl per se.. I think she's hearing a lot of things from Jill in private which form her opinions for her, I think she was never that into dancing or fame to begin with and this whole thing isn't really good for her.

As bad as the other mothers are, I have to keep reminding myself how awful Ashlee is as well so I don't side with her!

[RCharter]

^^I truly do despise Jill/Jess/Melissa for making me side with Ashlee, because I don't like her.  

 

I truly hope that Jill is just putting on for the camera, but the litmus test for the authenticity of the mothers behavior is the behavior of their children.  If the children are well behaved and nice than I figure its probably all for the camera....but if the kids are showing the same terrible behavior as their mother it tells me that the mother is probably talking about it all the time at home too.  Kendall's behavior makes me think that Jill's awful behavior is real and that Jill is obsessed with Brynn and probably sits at home at night dreaming up ways to destroy an 11 year old girl.  Just like that crazy Texas cheerleader mom from way back in the day.

 

I think its the same way with Jojo/Jess.  I've noticed Jojo shading Ashlee...and for what?  Why would she do that unless Jess is at home talking shit about Ashlee and how much she hates her and how unfair it is that Brynn is getting solos and what not.

[MyFavShows]

I agree that whatever Ashlee said that got Kendall so upset was probably edited - cause why would someone saying another dancer is having a better season than her upset her so much? And why would something so lame be "all over social media". It's was probably something a lot more nasty than Byrnn doing better at fake dance competitions than her. So nasty it couldn't be shown.

[sofiah]

I bet she said something to the effect of "you're jealous because people like Brynn more" or "people find you/Kendall annoying" or something like that.  Who knows though! 

 

Also, edited to add that I think Mackenzie's level headedness probably comes partly from the fact that it seems her and Brynn are pretty good friends.  It seems that way on instagram, and you can see in the background when they're filming and stuff, they're often sitting together chatting.  It makes sense that they would be friends, since they're similar in age.  Brynn also seems like a nice, shy kid and I think Mackenzie can be a little shy too.  

 

Either way, its clear Abby loves Brynn.  She just took her all over the world with her, she's literally got little videos of Brynn "being silly" on her instagram and talks about how much she makes her laugh.  It must kill Jill.  

Edited March 30, 2016 by sofiah

[cali1981]

I liked all the solos this week -- I think its was very shrewd of Abby to put Kilani in a solo....in Vegas....in heels.....in more of a Broadway/Vegas style dance routine.

 

It was a good move by Abby.  Her comments after Kalani's second place finish were very insightful as well.  J-Lo or anyone else won't be "snatching" up Kalani anytime soon, or at least until she turns 18 but I hope that Kira was paying attention.  Woman, get your kid away from this faux fame train and back into a real studio for some serious advanced training.  Your kid's got it in ability, looks and personality and might actually be a professional dancer but only if you help to make that happen while she's still in her formative years.

Edited March 30, 2016 by cali1981

[spanana]

I agree that whatever Ashlee said that got Kendall so upset was probably edited - cause why would someone saying another dancer is having a better season than her upset her so much? And why would something so lame be "all over social media". It's was probably something a lot more nasty than Byrnn doing better at fake dance competitions than her. So nasty it couldn't be shown.

 

What would be so nasty that it couldn't be shown?  The juicer the better where Lifetime is concerned.

[hellohoping]

I agree Mackenzie has come off well the last couple of episodes, but she's certainly had her bratty/mean-girl moments. Mainly off-screen, but she also had a scene with JoJo when JoJo first started that was very 'mean-girl'. 

 

She does however appear to be making Brynn feel included now, which is good. Brynn seems to be getting a mean reception from Kendall (remember that talk about Kendall telling her she couldn't be in group pictures because she wasn't in the group... "just kidding"?) and, unfortunately probably Maddie by extension.

 

I think a bit of what Ashlee said was cut. By the talk of social media I expect she was referring to how a lot of fans on instagram/youtube etc are talking about how Kendall is not very good these days. The tables really do seem to have turned on Kendall online, mainly because of Jill and her treatment of Brynn, and provoking viewers to comment how Kendall is NOTHING compared to Brynn and a terrible performer. I expect that's what Ashlee mentioned. 

 

Kalani was delightful as usual.

 

Poor Brynn, is my main conclusion from the episode...

[Absolom]

Ratings are in: 1.513 M viewers and a .53 rating.

[RedheadZombie]

I don't subscribe to the bullshit belief that children must respect all adults.  I was raised that way, and it's taken me a lifetime to find my voice and learn to stick up for myself.  Kendall is defending herself, and I find her the most real child on this show.  Kalani is overly submissive (beaten down?), Maddie is a fake robot, Mackenzie is a perennial five year-old who seems able to shake off a lot of the negativity, Jo Jo has learned that her mother won't intervene to defend her or treat her speech impediment, and Nia has been taught to politely accept being treated as less-than, third-rate, and a racial stereotype.

 

I can honestly say that I've thought every one of these children, minus Kalani and Chloe, has been a brat at one time or another.  Kalani is clearly the adult in her mother/daughter relationship, and seems grateful for any sort of stability in her life.  Mackenzie knows she's nothing in her mother's eyes compared to Maddie, and Melissa cares nothing about a Kenzie win.  Jo Jo has been getting her hair bleached since the age of two, and has a mother who never stands up for her, or even seems concerned when Jo Jo is mocked.  Maddie is incredibly disingenuous, and I don't believe a single talking head she does.  She's every bit as mean girl as Kendall, if not worse.  And she may have been the negative influence on Kendall, rather than the reverse.  Nia has the most stable home life, but she's seen her mother sacrifice a life-time goal and hard work, for the fleeting fame of the show.  Holly has seemingly abandoned many of her scruples to stay with this show, and she's taught Nia to quietly accept the racism, intended or otherwise, that has come her way via Abby.  Brynn is a very sweet little girl whose mother is as greedy for fame as any other.

 

And I cannot express enough my dislike for Melissa and Maddie in the car scene.  I can't imagine what it's like for Mackenzie to be in a household with those two.  Maddie's group lost last week to Mackenzie's group, Maddie and Melissa didn't like it and tried to check the scores, and they don't want it discussed on camera.  Melissa has offered her children up to anyone to get the level of fame that Maddie has received.  First she handed her over to Abby and allowed that extremely dysfunctional relationship.  Then she lets Maddie be Sia's own little psychology project.  And then allows Maddie unmonitored communication with a weirdo like Shia LeBeouf.  I fear Maddie has no true protector and she's in the midst of people who have historically preyed on children.  And Melissa loves every minute of it.

 

I'm not denying that Kendall can be a brat.  But in this particular scene, Ashley was criticizing Kendall, and Kendall reacted by yelling, "why are you so mean"?  People act like she said - fuck off you fat bitch.  Kendall needs a strong personality to deal with Jill, or she would have been beaten down years ago.

[CoolMom]

Ashlee, saying the Ziegler girls should watch out for Brynn was funny considering Maddie has dealt with 5+ years of scrap from the moms and it never affected her dancing from what I remember. As a matter of fact I think Maddie decided to just put in on the dance floor; I don't remember her ever crying as much a Brynn.

Bryan is beautiful dancer but if she truly wants to be the next Maddie she needs a thicker skin.

I just don't like Ashlee or Jill for that matter.

I missed Christy and Kelly having a drink at a Las Vegas show.

ETA: Unless I missed it last week no one said the competition was rigged. They asked for the score sheets because the announcer said the wrong number. I would have done the same as matter of fact I expect score sheets every time my children perform. I think this is why Melissa corrected what Kenzie said.

Edited March 30, 2016 by CoolMom

[cali1981]

Maybe it's just me but I find this dream of acting stardom by Maddie and her idiot mother to be very suspect.  Think of the brilliant child actors that you've seen over the last few years. Jacob Tremblay in The Room, the Fanning girls, Abigail Breslin, Chloe Grace-Moritz are just some examples and there are so many more who have been excellent in major films.  Does anyone see Maddie comparing in any way to these kids?  I personally don't and it would take a world of acting coaching to hone whatever innate skills she has.  I would hope that Maddie continues with her dancing and her training.  At the end of the day, her future may well lie in that direction.

[KaveDweller]

ETA: Unless I missed it last week no one said the competition was rigged. They asked for the score sheets because the announcer said the wrong number. I would have done the same as matter of fact I expect score sheets every time my children perform. I think this is why Melissa corrected what Kenzie said.

 

No one used the word rigged, but it was definitely implied. Abby said she talked to the judges and Brynn's team definitely won. She even had a picture of some paperwork that I assumed was the score sheet. Jill said she didn't believe that. The suggestion was definitely that Brynn's team didn't really win, but was announced as winner (either intentionally or not).

 

Melissa could have corrected Mackenzie's use of "rigged" while still acknowledging that people were trying to say her team didn't really win. Her refusal to discuss it turned me off.

[Rylee]

I don't subscribe to the bullshit belief that children must respect all adults.  I was raised that way, and it's taken me a lifetime to find my voice and learn to stick up for myself.  Kendall is defending herself, and I find her the most real child on this show.  Kalani is overly submissive (beaten down?), Maddie is a fake robot, Mackenzie is a perennial five year-old who seems able to shake off a lot of the negativity, Jo Jo has learned that her mother won't intervene to defend her or treat her speech impediment, and Nia has been taught to politely accept being treated as less-than, third-rate, and a racial stereotype.

 

I can honestly say that I've thought every one of these children, minus Kalani and Chloe, has been a brat at one time or another.  Kalani is clearly the adult in her mother/daughter relationship, and seems grateful for any sort of stability in her life.  Mackenzie knows she's nothing in her mother's eyes compared to Maddie, and Melissa cares nothing about a Kenzie win.  Jo Jo has been getting her hair bleached since the age of two, and has a mother who never stands up for her, or even seems concerned when Jo Jo is mocked.  Maddie is incredibly disingenuous, and I don't believe a single talking head she does.  She's every bit as mean girl as Kendall, if not worse.  And she may have been the negative influence on Kendall, rather than the reverse.  Nia has the most stable home life, but she's seen her mother sacrifice a life-time goal and hard work, for the fleeting fame of the show.  Holly has seemingly abandoned many of her scruples to stay with this show, and she's taught Nia to quietly accept the racism, intended or otherwise, that has come her way via Abby.  Brynn is a very sweet little girl whose mother is as greedy for fame as any other.

 

And I cannot express enough my dislike for Melissa and Maddie in the car scene.  I can't imagine what it's like for Mackenzie to be in a household with those two.  Maddie's group lost last week to Mackenzie's group, Maddie and Melissa didn't like it and tried to check the scores, and they don't want it discussed on camera.  Melissa has offered her children up to anyone to get the level of fame that Maddie has received.  First she handed her over to Abby and allowed that extremely dysfunctional relationship.  Then she lets Maddie be Sia's own little psychology project.  And then allows Maddie unmonitored communication with a weirdo like Shia LeBeouf.  I fear Maddie has no true protector and she's in the midst of people who have historically preyed on children.  And Melissa loves every minute of it.

 

I'm not denying that Kendall can be a brat.  But in this particular scene, Ashley was criticizing Kendall, and Kendall reacted by yelling, "why are you so mean"?  People act like she said - fuck off you fat bitch.  Kendall needs a strong personality to deal with Jill, or she would have been beaten down years ago.

I was raised not to take any crap either, and I have tried to raise my 5 children to stand up for themselves when need be, but I think the problem in this scenario is Jill is behaving in the same exact way, or worse than Ashlee, yet Jill and Kendall won't acknowledge their behavior or any part in it and instead, choose to play the victim.

[spanana]

I don't subscribe to the bullshit belief that children must respect all adults.  I was raised that way, and it's taken me a lifetime to find my voice and learn to stick up for myself.  Kendall is defending herself, and I find her the most real child on this show.  Kalani is overly submissive (beaten down?), Maddie is a fake robot, Mackenzie is a perennial five year-old who seems able to shake off a lot of the negativity, Jo Jo has learned that her mother won't intervene to defend her or treat her speech impediment, and Nia has been taught to politely accept being treated as less-than, third-rate, and a racial stereotype.

 

I can honestly say that I've thought every one of these children, minus Kalani and Chloe, has been a brat at one time or another.  Kalani is clearly the adult in her mother/daughter relationship, and seems grateful for any sort of stability in her life.  Mackenzie knows she's nothing in her mother's eyes compared to Maddie, and Melissa cares nothing about a Kenzie win.  Jo Jo has been getting her hair bleached since the age of two, and has a mother who never stands up for her, or even seems concerned when Jo Jo is mocked.  Maddie is incredibly disingenuous, and I don't believe a single talking head she does.  She's every bit as mean girl as Kendall, if not worse.  And she may have been the negative influence on Kendall, rather than the reverse.  Nia has the most stable home life, but she's seen her mother sacrifice a life-time goal and hard work, for the fleeting fame of the show.  Holly has seemingly abandoned many of her scruples to stay with this show, and she's taught Nia to quietly accept the racism, intended or otherwise, that has come her way via Abby.  Brynn is a very sweet little girl whose mother is as greedy for fame as any other.

 

And I cannot express enough my dislike for Melissa and Maddie in the car scene.  I can't imagine what it's like for Mackenzie to be in a household with those two.  Maddie's group lost last week to Mackenzie's group, Maddie and Melissa didn't like it and tried to check the scores, and they don't want it discussed on camera.  Melissa has offered her children up to anyone to get the level of fame that Maddie has received.  First she handed her over to Abby and allowed that extremely dysfunctional relationship.  Then she lets Maddie be Sia's own little psychology project.  And then allows Maddie unmonitored communication with a weirdo like Shia LeBeouf.  I fear Maddie has no true protector and she's in the midst of people who have historically preyed on children.  And Melissa loves every minute of it.

 

I'm not denying that Kendall can be a brat.  But in this particular scene, Ashley was criticizing Kendall, and Kendall reacted by yelling, "why are you so mean"?  People act like she said - fuck off you fat bitch.  Kendall needs a strong personality to deal with Jill, or she would have been beaten down years ago.

 

I agree with parts of this.  I don't think kids should blindly just respect their elders because they are their elders, but finding your voice and sticking up for yourself is not what I saw Kendall doing.  What I saw Kendall doing was throwing a temper tantrum, which is the furthest thing in the world from maturity.  Kendall seemed super duper proud of herself and how mature she was standing up to Ashlee, but she really didn't stand up for anything.  She threw a temper tantrum, stormed out of the room, and cried in a dressing room. What would have been mature is Kendall standing up for herself and telling Ashlee whatever she wanted to say calmly and rationally while staying in the room.  But Kendall's role model is Jill, so what does one expect?

 

I also don't see where we have evidence that Kehlani is beaten down and submissive.  Does choosing to stay out of the drama equate submissive to some?  To me it shows Kehlani has common sense.  There are definitely issues in her home life, but I don't see where the submissive bit comes from. I also don't think Nia has been taught to allow herself to be treated as less than and third rate.  What I think she has learned, from someone whether it be Holly or not, is that she has a voice and she can speak her own mind.  She has done it time and time again, usually with Abby.  It's just that Nia was taught to do it without yelling and screaming.  Choosing not to yell and scream at the top of your lungs every time something doesn't go your way does not make you a doormat.  It's actually IMO a useful life skill that will take Nia far in life (just perhaps not in dance).

 

Maddie may be a brat, but I think the difference with her and Kendall is that for Kendall/Jill, Dance Moms is everything.  If Dance Moms goes away, Kendall's career is basically done.  Maddie can't even pretend to care about anything related to Dance Moms because her head is so far in her ascension to supposed movie stardom, so no amount of money in the world is going to make her engage here anymore.  She is just biding her time until she can get out of there.  Kendall/Jill have to throw temper tantrums because that is all there is to Kendall's "career" at this point.

Edited March 31, 2016 by spanana

[Lemons]

Maybe it's just me but I find this dream of acting stardom by Maddie and her idiot mother to be very suspect.  Think of the brilliant child actors that you've seen over the last few years. Jacob Tremblay in The Room, the Fanning girls, Abigail Breslin, Chloe Grace-Moritz are just some examples and there are so many more who have been excellent in major films.  Does anyone see Maddie comparing in any way to these kids?  I personally don't and it would take a world of acting coaching to hone whatever innate skills she has.  I would hope that Maddie continues with her dancing and her training.  At the end of the day, her future may well lie in that direction.

 

Many kids and adults have dreams of acting stardom, nothing wrong with giving it a try.  Same with dancing.  Many kids have dreams of being in a major company and work towards knowing the odds are against them.  Same with sports. 

 

I think a big part of doing well with acting is if you appeal to the audience.  Older adult actors like Julia Roberts and George Clooney made it on their appeal, not because they are brilliant actors, because they aren't.  Maddie might be a lightweight and not do too much or she may work hard on her acting much like she did with dancing and improve with every job. 

 

I can honestly say that I've thought every one of these children, minus Kalani and Chloe, has been a brat at one time or another. 

 

Much like children in real life?

[Rylee]

Many kids and adults have dreams of acting stardom, nothing wrong with giving it a try.  Same with dancing.  Many kids have dreams of being in a major company and work towards knowing the odds are against them.  Same with sports. 

 

I think a big part of doing well with acting is if you appeal to the audience.  Older adult actors like Julia Roberts and George Clooney made it on their appeal, not because they are brilliant actors, because they aren't.  Maddie might be a lightweight and not do too much or she may work hard on her acting much like she did with dancing and improve with every job. 

Much like children in real life?

 

According to Merv Griffin's "Large Head Theory," Maddie will do just fine. The camera loves them, and people tend to, too.

 

I think Maddie is a very pretty girl, and with her large face and features, her expressions are easily seen on stage.

[Rylee]

I want to add...

I read "K," just the letter "K." is Kendall's middle name. Her parents used the letter K to honor Jill's two niece's. So maybe when Jill addresses her as Kendall K., she is just using her first and middle names, and not using her stage name?

Regardless, I can't stand Jill, and have never been a fan of Kendall's, either.

[tessa]

Before the Kendall K music explosion - Jill use to address Kendall as Krndall - just as MackKenzie was called Mackenzie - now she's often referred to as Mac Z.

[Vandy10]

I, too, thought Ashlee said something else to Kendall that we didn't hear. The camera cut away from her face when she started to say, "You're just jealous because Brynn's had a better season than-" and cut right back to her face as she mouthed/said the word "Kendall." So Ashlee definitely said something about Kendall. But with the obvious dubbing, and the kids'/moms' reaction about social media, it seems we didn't get to hear all that she said. It's kind of like a season or two ago when Holly went nuts on Abby for something she said "on camera" that didn't sound much worse than other things Abby's said to Nia. But this time, Holly's reaction was so much worse than ever before. I remember a lot of speculation then that Abby had said something more vile than what made it to air.

[Rebecca]

I think Ashlee probably said something about how viewers find kendall boring and dull to watch and Brynn is more enjoyable for viewers to see. It was probably edited because they seem to like to pretend that they're not on a show and not acknowledge the viewers and that the only reason anyone cares about them is due to the show.

I think I dislike Jill more than I dislike Abby and that's really saying something!!

Edited March 31, 2016 by Rebecca

[Tikichick]

I felt the papering over of the term rigged related to Melissa not wanting that associated in any way with the results we see week after week on the show.  In her mind Maddie has now legitimately "made it" and it won't do for anybody to look too close at some of the "competitions" on Maddie's resume, replete with first place finishes.  Regular viewers understand many of the competitions have been fabrications for the show, but it won't do for those who understand Maddie is a multiple title holder by reputation only to be exposed to that kind of idea.

Edited March 31, 2016 by Tikichick

[Olivia]

Hi, new here, though I've been lurking for awhile!  I've (embarrassingly) watched DM since the beginning -- my kids are dancers and love it and we've just kept watching.  

 

Re this episode -- I think Jill is really delusional.  Kendall is very pretty but she's not a strong dancer, and she is boring to watch.  She also seems much too self-conscious. Maddie has some technique issues, but she really leaves it all out there on stage, and you can see that quality -- which is very unusual for a dancer that age -- in the Sia videos.  Maddie is repped by one of the top agencies in LA (so is MacKenzie), and I think there's a solid chance she'll make it as an actor.  I don't think she's a great actress yet, but the director of the Book of Henry must have seen something to cast her w/ Jacob Tremblay and Naomi Watts.  

 

I don't know if the other girls have agents yet, but I bet part of the reason the Zieglers left is that their agents suggested they do so.  If Maddie wants to be taken seriously, she can't really be on a nutball reality show with her mom screaming like a maniac each week.  

[RCharter]

I agree that whatever Ashlee said that got Kendall so upset was probably edited - cause why would someone saying another dancer is having a better season than her upset her so much? And why would something so lame be "all over social media". It's was probably something a lot more nasty than Byrnn doing better at fake dance competitions than her. So nasty it couldn't be shown.

I don't think so, because I think Jill has Kendall programmed to take every sleight from Ashlee/Brynn as the greatest offense.  And Kendall enjoys playing the put-upon victim.  Especially when she is backed by her mother and the other mothers.  So, I absolutely see where Kendall would run out of the room in tears to manipulate the situation.  I don't believe that she was sincerely upset at all....did we even see tears, or did she just see Kendall wiping her face?  She got attention and she got out of practice, and her mom probably took her out shopping and clucked over her all day.  I'm sure she is hoping that the other girls will alienate Brynn even more, because Jill has taught her that Brynn is the bad guy for keeping Kendall from being the star.

[Odelia]

I felt the papering over of the term rigged related to Melissa not wanting that associated in any way with the results we see week after week on the show.  In her mind Maddie has now legitimately "made it" and it won't do for anybody to look too close at some of the "competitions" on Maddie's resume, replete with first place finishes.  Regular viewers understand many of the competitions have been fabrications for the show, but it won't do for those who understand Maddie is a multiple title holder by reputation only to be exposed to that kind of idea.

It's been a while, but hadn't Maddie already won competitions before DM? And she was in the top 10 at that Dance Awards thing I think. But I read a post somewhere saying that the type of dances Kalani and Brynn do at their studio is more in vogue at the competitions, the whole "do a move and hold it" kind of dance, a bit boring (I prefer the ALDC tell a story style), but popular now, which is what the winner did.

 

I didn't like Kendall's dancing when she came onto the show, then there was one season (maybe 4?) when she started doing really nice turns and I kind of enjoyed her, but now she's grown bigger and she can't carry herself gracefully on stage, she looks clunky. Compared to Kalani who also grew up, but still looks graceful,

[hatchetgirl]

The music was a lot better this episode. Was Kalani's dance to a Nelly McKay song? Also was that actually a bowie tune? But no Abby, I don't think bowie would be proud of the way the kids are treated, dance, etc.

I think brynn is a better dancer than Maddie but that's because brynn was trained elsewhere. She seems quite sweet for the mother she has. Ashlee is a piece of work. She is never nice.

But the main reason I'm commenting is about Abby. I mentioned a few weeks ago that she seemed manic. How is it, she was actually present, aware and kind of nice this week. Weird.

Edited April 1, 2016 by hatchetgirl

[Lemons]

According to Merv Griffin's "Large Head Theory," Maddie will do just fine. The camera loves them, and people tend to, too.

 

I think Maddie is a very pretty girl, and with her large face and features, her expressions are easily seen on stage.

 

I guess she's got an appealing voice too because she is doing a character on a new animated movie called Ballerina.  The main character is voice by Ell Fanning, so Maddie's probably her friend or something.  There's big money in those animated voice overs.  Looks like a good movie for the kids/preteens. 

[StayingAfterSunday]

According to Merv Griffin's "Large Head Theory," Maddie will do just fine. The camera loves them, and people tend to, too.

 

I think Maddie is a very pretty girl, and with her large face and features, her expressions are easily seen on stage.

Maddie's expressive eyes are an inestimable asset for any performer, I think.  I don't see her as having a "large face" necessarily; she has a high forehead, which is rather sloped, something that is not desirable with respect to screen presence. This aesthetic drawback may have been a factor in the decision to have Maddie wear wigs in one of her recent videos (the Sia one?).

 

The music was a lot better this episode. Was Kalani's dance to a Nelly McKay song? Also was that actually a bowie tune? But no Abby, I don't think bowie would be proud of the way the kids are treated, dance, etc.

I think brynn is a better dancer than Maddie but that's because brynn was trained elsewhere. She seems quite sweet for the mother she has. Ashlee is a piece of work. She is never nice.

But the main reason I'm commenting is about Abby. I mentioned a few weeks ago that she seemed manic. How is it, she was actually present, aware and kind of nice this week. Weird.

 

But Maddie has that "show girl" quality that many successful performers possess, whether they are dancers, actors, or vocal artists.  Abby, of course, knows this, and styles Maddie's solo dances to highlight this attribute.

I don't think I will ever forget Maddie's dance portrayal of the axe-murderer, Lizzie Borden.  I must have watched that single performance four or five times it impressed me so much.  Was Abby the original creator and choreographer of that dance?  

 

Then there is Brynn:  Brynn has such fluidity and grace in every movement that I find myself becoming entranced by her solos, particularly the most recent one. I noticed she's been taking Abby's advice and working hard to make eye contact with the audience whenever possible. To go one step further, in preparation for her solos, Brynn's eyes might benefit from some embellishment by a good makeup artist.

 

About Abby's elevated mood:  Yes, it certainly was uncharacteristic of her, wasn't it?  Didn't she say something along the lines of "I have somewhere to go after this..."  when the girls pranked her with the Silly String in the dressing room?  I inferred from that remark that perhaps Abby had a hot date, hence, her upbeat mood.  Thoughts?

Edited April 2, 2016 by StayingAfterSunday

[Absolom]

Maddie definitely benefits from having more dramatic coloring and a large mouth.  The blondes all have to step up the makeup to begin to compete.  I have a grandson with similar dramatic coloring and long lush black eyelashes.  All he has to do is stand there to draw attention.  His strawberry blonde sister is easily ignored, however.  I'm not saying children in general need make up, but onstage a few could use more help creating a dramatic face. 

[NextIteration]

Maddie definitely benefits from having more dramatic coloring and a large mouth.  The blondes all have to step up the makeup to begin to compete.  I have a grandson with similar dramatic coloring and long lush black eyelashes.  All he has to do is stand there to draw attention.  His strawberry blonde sister is easily ignored, however.  I'm not saying children in general need make up, but onstage a few could use more help creating a dramatic face. 

 

You can see this in how much stage makeup transforms the blondes (Chloe, Brynn) compared to Maddie - I mean basic stage makeup - not the extraordinary makeup we see in some of the ALDC pieces.

[realdancemom]

Kalani is such a beautiful gorgeous dancer.  She did really well in her solo.  Abby was nicer in this episode because she usually hates second place finishes.  Maddie has improved so much character wise in her dances.  I do think it helps that she has done other work.  Brynn is young and I usually don't like her dances.  She's naturally flexible and her technique is great for her age.  But she needs to work on her transitions and I don't feel anything when she dances.  She's young though so she can improve on this.  Both Kendall and Nia are heavy, clunky dancers.  At least, Nia is great with sassy jazz numbers because she can sass it up.  Kendall just has a blank face.  As someone else mentioned, I used to think she would be a good model since she is beautiful.  I don't think that anymore since you still need a good engaging facial expression.

 

Kira didn't say a word in this episode.  I think she really doesn't want to be there and would rather stay home with the baby.  She is probably there to fulfill her contract.  I think Kalani and Nia are nice and mature.  When Nia is upset with Abby, she talks to her in a reasonable manner.  Sometimes, she sounds more adult than Abby.  That's what Kendall should have done.  I can tell that Kendall is spoiled and an obnoxious teen in the mother/daughter special.  Mackenzie is sometimes mean to Maddie but that's what sisters do.  I also think Mackenzie feels slighted because Maddie is getting all the attention even from her mom.  So I don't blame Mackenzie for that.

 

The moms have been acting so crazy that I really hope that it's scripted. 

Edited April 2, 2016 by realdancemom

[Odelia]

Arghhh I cannot.. look on Twitter, everyone is like "I'm so proud of Kendall for using her voice and standing up for herself"! About time she "used her voice", and that goes for everyone bar Nia. And screeching "why are you so mean!" is hardly standing up for yourself..

[sgomes]

I went to the Las Vegas taping, and even before going I suspected most of what is seen is scripted.  I'm more convinced of it now.  Unless the women are great actresses when the camera is not on, they all actually appeared to get along, and were cordial.  Given how Jill is often portrayed, she was very nice, even taking out the time to take a picture with one dad.  He was sorta invading her space during some down time, but she was gracious. 

 

The dancing was honestly not that impressive in person.  All of them just appeared to be going through the motions.  Brynn was good, but mechanical, and there was a boy who danced against her, who IMO, beat her soundly, but since it is the show, there was no way she would lose.  There was also a mini team there that was FANTASTIC.  They really brought it.  All in all, it's just a show and they're all getting paid.  Maybe there is some real animosity, but it may be more about who gets extra camera and all of the moms realizing they have to maximize the money while they can.  

Edited April 3, 2016 by sgomes