S06.E14: Twice As Far

[DEL901]

I wonder if Carol's feelings had a bit to do with "fake it til you make it"?  In Alexandria, she put on cardigans and baked cookies and generally asked similarly to the way she may have before the ZA.  And then something would happen and she'd have to pick up a gun again.  And then she went back to baking.  I think the back and forth got harder and harder for her.  If she'd just been able to be kick ass Carol, maybe she could have coped, but each time she became domesticated Carol, the switch to kick ass Carol got harder and harder... and then having to attack and kill (instead of being on the defensive), it was probably the last straw.

[peach]

Seems like Denise was more a victim of the Dead Blonde Female trope.

[candall]

Well, hmm.  The irony is that Carol could have stayed and been helpful to her friends in many ways besides killing, but the opportunities on the outside for a lone woman who rejects violence are pretty likely limited to "sex slave."

[Portia]

Another reason I'll miss Denise is because she was representing for us chunky folk.  With her gone, will they allow the hefty pantry lady to speak again? 

[RustbeltWriter]

I'm with Daryl. After Denise's death and Terminus you couldn't pay me to get near railroad tracks.

[Ocean Chick]

So now who's left with any sort of medical knowledge/experience? Rosita. Maggie. Possibly Eric, because he seemed to be hanging around the clinic helping out Denise a lot.

 

 

Add Carol to that list, if and when she ever returns.  Hershel was training her before the prison, and she's the one that helped after his amputation.  She also knows how to reset shoulders and how to use pine sap to ward off infection and heal wounds.  And probably a ton of other medical knowledge gained from pre-za and the need to cure herself and avoid going to the er after Ed got drunk.

 

He has something they don't appear to have: genuine kindness and warmth. I can see why Carol would appreciate that far more in a partner than someone with a clever turn of phrase or a killer bod. Besides, Tobin appears to be well-built. He works construction, after all.

 

 

My whole problem is I've had to sit through watching sexy times with Maggie and Glenn.  And Abe and Rosita.  And Rick and Michonne.  I feel like I've earned watching sexy times with my favorite character, Carol.  But NOT at the expense of having to watch them with a man boring enough to put me in a coma.  I've done nothing to deserve that.  Honest!  I'm a good girl, I am.  And no, I don't think Tobin appears to be well-built.  I rather doubt that construction was his job pre-za, and he looked to be working more as a foreman when Francine was attacked, and not doing any actual work.  I'm thinking there's more flab than fab under that shirt.

Edited March 21, 2016 by Ocean Chick

[riverheightsnancy]

The solution would be the same as the solution for the POC problem this show has: introduce more LGBT characters and POC. But they have to kill off a ton of people to do that, because increasing the size of the cast right now is the last thing this show needs.

So, I see both the side of the argument that is hurt and outraged and the side that treats it as just another secondary character death, because IMO both have a point.

I agree with all of the points about the lack of representation and diversity, The bigger issue for me is how the core group escapres death time and time again and all these other people bite it. This has nothing to do with CDB being "skilled". If one were to look at the statistics, more of the original CDB would be dead by now. THAT is what makes no sense in the show. We have had really good new additions to the cast and very few of them have survived. But Carl has had 2 major life threatening injuries. These guys are magic! 

 

Carol is not doing well and hasn't been for a while.  Badass Carol was an act and an acting out.  People were so enamored by her ability to kill that they weren't seeing that Carol herself wasn't happy or enamored with her "new self".   And I do believe she was deeply affected by the events of the Grove, not just for having to put down Lizzie but because was too wrapped up in herself to see the signs about Lizzie that were there all along - and Mika paid with her life.  It is also worth noting that in the past week she has been beaten by two separate adult males.  I'm sure that in many ways that made her feel weak again.  The show has been dropping clues for literally years about Carol's state of mind, but the bigger message got lost in the fanfare. 

 

Yes. I was thinking about Carol some more and I have to wonder if a part of her feels extreme guilt about how she treated Sam? She has never said it, but the cookie on the grave said it all to me. She broke that kid with her horrible threats. All he wanted was to be friendly and to hang around and talk to her, and make cookies. He was sweet. He was also being terrorized by his father. She pushed him away and caused him great mental anguish. She feels guilt over that, as she should. I think that she saw Sam as a reflection of her earlier self: weak and sniveling. And she pushed him away instead of having empathy.  That reflection was unacceptable to her, because the fact is, she is STILL that person.

She has had to learn these new behaviors to survive, but experiences cognitive dissonance over what she really believes and how she acts. I think Lizzie and Mika were big catalysts, but Sam is what pushed her right over the edge. I was thinking about it as an actor. What would have to happen to make me act like that? I would have to believe that I am a horrible person, who does not deserve to live, for what I have done. I shouldn't kill anyone either because I am not worthy enough to do that, look at all the bad things that I have done. I am a bad person and I don't even deserve to live. I am responsible for 18 deaths.  I am not above anyone else. I am nothing. If I were acting this part, I would maybe internalize these statements  and with her experience being abused by her husband, it makes a lot of sense for her run away. She needs to find some way to cope and doesn't want to admit to people how she feels and thinks, because that makes her even weaker. If there was anyone who needs a psychiatrist right now, it is Carol. Conveniently, the psychiatrist just got killed so no one will get any type of help. 

[Ocean Chick]

I agree with all of the points about the lack of representation and diversity, The bigger issue for me is how the core group escapres death time and time again and all these other people bite it. This has nothing to do with CDB being "skilled". If one were to look at the statistics, more of the original CDB would be dead by now. THAT is what makes no sense in the show. We have had really good new additions to the cast and very few of them have survived. But Carl has had 2 major life threatening injuries. These guys are magic! 

 

 

Yes. I was thinking about Carol some more and I have to wonder if a part of her feels extreme guilt about how she treated Sam? She has never said it, but the cookie on the grave said it all to me. She broke that kid with her horrible threats. All he wanted was to be friendly and to hang around and talk to her, and make cookies. He was sweet. He was also being terrorized by his father. She pushed him away and caused him great mental anguish. She feels guilt over that, as she should. I think that she saw Sam as a reflection of her earlier self: weak and sniveling. And she pushed him away instead of having empathy.  That reflection was unacceptable to her, because the fact is, she is STILL that person.

She has had to learn these new behaviors to survive, but experiences cognitive dissonance over what she really believes and how she acts. I think Lizzie and Mika were big catalysts, but Sam is what pushed her right over the edge. I was thinking about it as an actor. What would have to happen to make me act like that? I would have to believe that I am a horrible person, who does not deserve to live, for what I have done. I shouldn't kill anyone either because I am not worthy enough to do that, look at all the bad things that I have done. I am a bad person and I don't even deserve to live. I am responsible for 18 deaths.  I am not above anyone else. I am nothing. If I were acting this part, I would maybe internalize these statements  and with her experience being abused by her husband, it makes a lot of sense for her run away. She needs to find some way to cope and doesn't want to admit to people how she feels and thinks, because that makes her even weaker. If there was anyone who needs a psychiatrist right now, it is Carol. Conveniently, the psychiatrist just got killed so no one will get any type of help. 

 

Except she was feeling that way a long time before she ever met Sam.  She was planning on ditching Team Fam back at Terminus, if it had turned out to be the sanctuary they'd hoped it would be.  She told Ty that she'd she him and Judith safely there, but she wasn't staying.  But she got sucked in by Team Fam needing her to save them.  Then afterwards she was planning on taking the car that she and Daryl found and driving away, but that also didn't work.  She's been wanting to be on her own for a while now, and this is her chance, so she's taking it.  Too bad Morgan didn't tell her about the lovely off-the-grid cabin she could use as a retreat, even if it still didn't have a goat.

[catrox14]

I agree with all of the points about the lack of representation and diversity, The bigger issue for me is how the core group escapres death time and time again and all these other people bite it. This has nothing to do with CDB being "skilled". If one were to look at the statistics, more of the original CDB would be dead by now. THAT is what makes no sense in the show. We have had really good new additions to the cast and very few of them have survived. But Carl has had 2 major life threatening injuries. These guys are magic! 

 

 

Yes. I was thinking about Carol some more and I have to wonder if a part of her feels extreme guilt about how she treated Sam? She has never said it, but the cookie on the grave said it all to me. She broke that kid with her horrible threats. All he wanted was to be friendly and to hang around and talk to her, and make cookies. He was sweet. He was also being terrorized by his father. She pushed him away and caused him great mental anguish. She feels guilt over that, as she should. I think that she saw Sam as a reflection of her earlier self: weak and sniveling. And she pushed him away instead of having empathy.  That reflection was unacceptable to her, because the fact is, she is STILL that person.

She has had to learn these new behaviors to survive, but experiences cognitive dissonance over what she really believes and how she acts. I think Lizzie and Mika were big catalysts, but Sam is what pushed her right over the edge. I was thinking about it as an actor. What would have to happen to make me act like that? I would have to believe that I am a horrible person, who does not deserve to live, for what I have done. I shouldn't kill anyone either because I am not worthy enough to do that, look at all the bad things that I have done. I am a bad person and I don't even deserve to live. I am responsible for 18 deaths.  I am not above anyone else. I am nothing. If I were acting this part, I would maybe internalize these statements  and with her experience being abused by her husband, it makes a lot of sense for her run away. She needs to find some way to cope and doesn't want to admit to people how she feels and thinks, because that makes her even weaker. If there was anyone who needs a psychiatrist right now, it is Carol. Conveniently, the psychiatrist just got killed so no one will get any type of help. 

 

Which I think would be great, and it logically makes sense, but they never showed us Carol's progression to this point.

 

She had a breakdown when she was captured but it was never clear if that was how Carol truly was feeling or if it was part of a ruse. I think it was probably both but to get to her basically running away from home? Nah...Not sold

[Haleth]

Seems like Denise was more a victim of the Dead Blonde Female trope.

r

Or the "I'll tell you I love you when I get back" trope. Honestly, when Tara said that didn't we all know one of them was toast?

[SharonH58]

Maybe Morgan feels he can side-step the whole killing thing with his handy dandy new jail ?

There's a new sheriff in town!

[GreyBunny]

Where did Morgan get all those nicely symmetrical cinder blocks, enough to build a nice-sized prison cell? Not to mention the frame for the door, the hinges, etc. Is there a toilet in the cell, or are they going to provide prisoners with a bucket, giving prisoners a potential weapon (tossing their waste at the person bringing their food and overpowering them)?

I'm willing to give Morgan a pass on this.  Back in Clear he built a huge booby-trap fortress with little more than sharpened sticks, chewing gum, and broken Legos.  Given time and the right raw materials I think a solid jail cell is well within his grasp. 

Both he and Eugene know some really useful life hacks.  Rather than have Morgan beat his pacifist drum all of the time I'd rather see him and Eugene team up and figure out how to build and fabricate things together.

But I agree, Daryl not knowing how to drive an old stick truck is just ridiculous.  They made him stupid so Denise could have her ante-mortem Plot Point.

 

[Dobian]

Or the "I'll tell you I love you when I get back" trope. Honestly, when Tara said that didn't we all know one of them was toast?

 

I think it was mostly the Servicing the Plot trope.  Most characters die on this show in meaningless ways.

[TattleTeeny]

Which I think would be great, and it logically makes sense, but they never showed us Carol's progression to this point.

 

I feel like the state of Carol's headspace has almost always been quite clear and readable without further exposition since she offed Karen and David, and that the contents of her goodbye letter were a helpful recap for anything I might have forgotten.

Edited March 21, 2016 by TattleTeeny

[catrox14]

I feel like the state of Carol's headspace has almost always been quite clear and readable without further exposition since she offed Karen and David, and that the contents of her goodbye letter were a helpful recap for anything I might have forgotten.

 

I would have appreciated having Carol talk to someone, anyone about her experiences and feelings. Melissa McBride is a fantastic actor and she conveys much of Carol's headspace with her non verbal acting but because Carol is narratively all over the place, in my opinion, it's hard to know. Plus I think Carol deserves to be heard by someone in the group. Sadly they yanked Daryl out of her life for the most part who she trusted more than anyone. Hell I could have lived with some voice overs along the way..maybe a peek at Carol's journal before we see her pull out of the nightstand.  Something else to tell us this is what she's might have been thinking about. I think not giving Carol that "voice" is a disservice to the character.  For me a goodbye later..is just lazy writing

[TattleTeeny]

OK, I can get that. I don't feel like it was necessary to follow her story but I definitely also would have liked to see more of her showcased due to both the actress's abilities and the character's awesomeness.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Abraham must be working off a different system than I learned.

Dick-biting would be WAAAAAYYYYY past second base.

 

"... he's rounded third and heading for home..."

Edited March 22, 2016 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[NorthstarATL]

I would have appreciated having Carol talk to someone, anyone about her experiences and feelings. Melissa McBride is a fantastic actor and she conveys much of Carol's headspace with her non verbal acting but because Carol is narratively all over the place, in my opinion, it's hard to know. Plus I think Carol deserves to be heard by someone in the group. Sadly they yanked Daryl out of her life for the most part who she trusted more than anyone. Hell I could have lived with some voice overs along the way..maybe a peek at Carol's journal before we see her pull out of the nightstand.  Something else to tell us this is what she's might have been thinking about. I think not giving Carol that "voice" is a disservice to the character.  For me a goodbye later..is just lazy writing

Well, there's a psychiatrist in Alexandria...oh, wait...not anymore.

 I have to come down on the side of show rather than talk. I think there are obviously certain things that are left unsaid to further the plot, and that can be irritating, but a lot of day to day speech between people is just mundane non-exposition stuff, and that's where I think a lot of the characters just are, due to PTSD and the like. (Michonne was another example of a character who didn't speak much. Some of what she didn't share was in service to the plot, but her non-chatty nature made good sense considering her circumstances.) Carol in particular has been shown to be secretive, sometimes to her detriment, but more often than not to her and the group's benefit. she holds her cards close, and that's just who Carol is. It makes her more interesting to me, because I am never truly sure what she's going to do next. as with this episode.

[Caelicola]

As with a lot of things Gimple does, my issue when it comes to Carol is less how they did it than when. Maybe it's on me, because I personally found the first half of this season so hard to get through, so the first episodes feel like a lifetime ago. Maybe if I binge watch it all in a row when the season ends (whether I'll want to or not depends mainly on who bites it in the next episodes) the progression would feel more organic and gradual.

As I see it right this moment, we had glimpses of her being definitely absolutely not ok, then she became very peripheral to the narrative; months later we get a whole episode in which she pretty much comes apart at the seams, and right after that she leaves, in an episode in which she is, once again, extremely peripheral. Now, I'm not advocating for more screen time for her, she already gets a lot more than many other characters. Just, maybe, distributed a little better over the course of the season.

I like her development, heck, I love her development, I don't think it's weakness or ruining her character at all.

I would have just found it a better story if it hadn't been told in starts and stops.

[AngelaHunter]

Has there been a huge Lesbian death culling on the show that I've missed?  I know Tara's other gf got it at the prison, along with the rest of their group.  I don't get why Denise dying is some big lesbian trope?  I mean really the last people that have died for awhile have been dudes, and not gay ones.

 

Seriously. I have no idea, since I don't correlate what someone may do in his/her bedroom to their deaths. When someone who's straight gets killed, I never think, "Oh, no, another heterosexual bites the dust.."  Nor, when Denise died, did I think for one second about her orientation. I was just sad she died because I liked her as a real human being. In an apocalypse of any kind, I'm pretty sure that someone's sexual orientation, appetites or fetishes would be the last thing anyone would spend one second thinking about, or giving a shit about. I guess they need to stick to killing only Anglo-Saxon heterosexual males so no one's hackles go up.

[ShadowSixx]

I don't care about a character's sexual preference, race, gender or whatever either. A character is a character and in the ZA none of that stuff matters as it's all about surviving as Rick explained that to Merle in S1.

[Iguessnot]

Yes it would have happened because Rick was not in love with Jessie. One awkward kiss in the garage does not a love affair make. Jessie would have been nuts to get with Rick considering he killed her abusive exhusband. Rick would have been nuts to be with her for the same reason.  I think killing off Jessie was good because the writers removed the temptation for a stupid love triangle because at some point Rick was going to realize his true feelings for Michonne. 

What's love got to do with it?

[Andromeda]

Another reason I'll miss Denise is because she was representing for us chunky folk.  With her gone, will they allow the hefty pantry lady to speak again?

I'm still waiting to see a fat zombie. Sure, I suppose they would burn off fat when they move, but somehow the zombie population is much trimmer and slimmer on average than the actual American population. Edited March 22, 2016 by Andromeda

[smartyshorts]

Well they stopped killing off Black Males for a while, so someone's gotta go.

 

 

Seriously. I have no idea, since I don't correlate what someone may do in his/her bedroom to their deaths. When someone who's straight gets killed, I never think, "Oh, no, another heterosexual bites the dust.."  Nor, when Denise died, did I think for one second about her orientation. I was just sad she died because I liked her as a real human being. In an apocalypse of any kind, I'm pretty sure that someone's sexual orientation, appetites or fetishes would be the last thing anyone would spend one second thinking about, or giving a shit about. I guess they need to stick to killing only Anglo-Saxon heterosexual males so no one's hackles go up.

[catrox14]

What's love got to do with it?

 

Is this just a joke based on the song? Or what? Sarcasm is hard on the internet.

[catrox14]

Seriously. I have no idea, since I don't correlate what someone may do in his/her bedroom to their deaths. When someone who's straight gets killed, I never think, "Oh, no, another heterosexual bites the dust.."  Nor, when Denise died, did I think for one second about her orientation. I was just sad she died because I liked her as a real human being. In an apocalypse of any kind, I'm pretty sure that someone's sexual orientation, appetites or fetishes would be the last thing anyone would spend one second thinking about, or giving a shit about. I guess they need to stick to killing only Anglo-Saxon heterosexual males so no one's hackles go up.

 

It's good that you don't think about that. Not every viewer is like that.

 

If Abe wants to lick Sasha's boots that's a very different thing than Denise and Tara being lesbians or bisexual. LGBT people can also want to lick their partners boots but they aren't going to have nearly as many opportunities to lick those boots because their pool  smaller than heterosexual boot lickers. 

Edited March 22, 2016 by catrox14

[Iguessnot]

Is this just a joke based on the song? Or what? Sarcasm is hard on the internet.

Yeah, it was kind of a joke. But in any case, whether or not is was love, Rick and Jessie were on a path that was going in one direction if not for her death.

[morgankobi]

What's love got to do with it?

What's love,

But a second-hand emotion.

Edited March 22, 2016 by morgankobi

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

What's love,

But a second-hand emotion.

 

Stop.

In the name of Love.

[catrox14]

Yeah, it was kind of a joke. But in any case, whether or not is was love, Rick and Jessie were on a path that was going in one direction if not for her death.

 

How do you figure that? Genuinely curious why you think they were in an end game when Richonne seeds had already been planted.

[morgankobi]

Stop.

In the name of Love.

Can't stop,

Addicted to the shindig.

[Iguessnot]

Rick was not reaping those seeds when they entered Alexandria. His eye latched onto Jessie. Porchdick got gone and Jessie was ultimately fine with it. If wolves and walkers hadn't intervened, why would Rick alter his course with Jessie and suddenly to shift to Michonne? Although Michonne is the better partner for Rick, at that point, there was no crossroads for Rick to consider. Jessie was his endgame at that time.

 

I think maybe I'm misunderstanding what your question is. I love Richonne, but it came about due to circumstantial opportunity.

Can't stop,

Addicted to the shindig.

You know you're gonna have to face it
You're addicted to love

[catrox14]

Rick was not reaping those seeds when they entered Alexandria. His eye latched onto Jessie. Porchdick got gone and Jessie was ultimately fine with it. If wolves and walkers hadn't intervened, why would Rick alter his course with Jessie and suddenly to shift to Michonne? Although Michonne is the better partner for Rick, at that point, there was no crossroads for Rick to consider. Jessie was his endgame at that time.

 

I think maybe I'm misunderstanding what your question is. I love Richonne, but it came about due to circumstantial opportunity.

 

I think we disagree on how important Jessie was to Rick or to the story.

 

I don't think Rick was going to be spending a lot of his spare time with Jessie. At most Jessie was going to be sexy times for a little while. That's it. IMO even if she had stayed alive, that wouldn't have lasted that long because of how their relationship would have started.  He killed her husband. No way that was going to be an endgame pairing. 

[morgankobi]

I was quite worried during the conversation between Denise, Darryl, and Rosita right by the car after she killed cooler-walker. There was this very obvious physical distance between her and them. I thought it was visually setting-up something and I was quite tense. Then they moved up onto the tracks and I relaxed a little because their blocking changed. Whoops.

 

You know you're gonna have to face it
You're addicted to love

I can't stand it.

I know you planned it.

But I'm gonna set it straight, this Watergate
But I can't stand rockin' when I'm in this place,
Because I feel disgrace because you're all in my face.

Edited March 22, 2016 by morgankobi

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

You know you're gonna have to face it

You're addicted to love

 

Is this love, or am I dreaming?

This must be love

[slf]

Can't stand that term, 'Man Pain.' Like male character's emotional pain isn't worthy of attention just because they are men. There is no equivalent dismissive term for female pain.

 

The term man pain isn't dismissive of male suffering, it's dismissive of the notion that male suffering is so profound and interesting and transformative that it's worth female life. As for there being no equivalent dismissive term for women, lol, try just about every term for being weak. Because women are weak and cannot handle suffering. Pussy, sissy, "don't be a girl", etc.

 

Can somebody please explain to me how suggesting that they (finally) manufacture their own gunpowder is thinking "outside the box?"

 

This. Another show that went the kill the lesbians route recently broached this subject within the first ten or so episode of the series, and that show is about post-apocalyptic teenagers that fell from the sky. Gunpowder is something they should have been working on long before now, especially considering how make bullets they use.

[TattleTeeny]

It's good that you don't think about that. Not every viewer is like that.

 

I think MANY viewers don't think about it like that. As for the creators of a show trying to appease both viewers and sponsors...well, there might be a lot more to it, sadly enough. The idealist in me hopes not, but the skeptic in me thinks otherwise.

[Iguessnot]

I still don't know what we disagree about because I don't know if you think Jessie is important or not. Analyzing Rick's state of mind is not the same as analyzing the progression of the writing. Jessie was nothing to me and I was glad to see and her kids her go. I'm glad Rick got in a mind space to recognize what he had in Michonne. But you stated that the Jessie relationship couldn't progress due to lack of true love, but I don't see that being a hindrance to their relationship. I don't think the killing of her husband would have been a problem between the two, however that murderous son would have put a wrench in things.  Rick killing him would have made her relationship with Rick unpalatable.

[catrox14]

But in any case, whether or not is was love, Rick and Jessie were on a path that was going in one direction if not for her death.

 

 

I guess I don't understand what you are saying, here ^^^^ 

 

You seem to be saying that  Jessick was a forgone conclusion as an endgame pairing if not for her death which is why Richonne wouldn't have happened? Or am I misunderstanding you?  I don't think the writing was pointing to that OTHER than as a temporary relationship for Rick. I think the endgame has always been Richonne regardless of Jessie surviving or not.

Edited March 22, 2016 by catrox14

[heisenberg]

Negan's group just sucks. This time they're retreating because they can't take on two people with their guns down, one man hiding and one on his knees, because once again all they want to do is TALK. Dwight straight up killed Denise so why just stop there and kill Rosita, Eugene, and Daryl? They want to be lead back to ASZ instead of possibly just finding and casing the place themselves. So dumb. Just like that dumb Mole Woman who wanted Maggie to tell her where ASZ is so she can go there to escape instead of finding it herself. This group hasn't learned anything from the biker gang being blown to rice krispies, the girl group being killed and Carol burning the men along with most of them being killed at the security base. Why are they wasting so much time talking?? Negan's group is just flat out pathetic. Unless Negan is purposely sending out the dumb ones and keeping the badasses for later. 

Or it could just be:  The bigger the army you own,  the careless you are with your soldiers, after all...  They are expandable...

[Pete Martell]

I agree with all of the points about the lack of representation and diversity, The bigger issue for me is how the core group escapres death time and time again and all these other people bite it. This has nothing to do with CDB being "skilled". If one were to look at the statistics, more of the original CDB would be dead by now. THAT is what makes no sense in the show. We have had really good new additions to the cast and very few of them have survived. But Carl has had 2 major life threatening injuries. These guys are magic! 

 

Given that only 5 of original CDB are still alive, I don't know if it's that unrealistic, aside from some of the more absurd moments like Glenn's fake death. Even Carl's shootings weren't presented as him cheating death - at least not the second one. But as this isn't a real life show, I can't expect endless realism. If it were realistic people would have nasty teeth, there would likely be far more rape and inbreeding, and other horrors I will take a pass on.

 

The show really can't win, because while I'd be fine with seeing more new characters and seeing a few vets (well, Daryl mainly) phased out, many viewers make it clear they watch only for these characters. People say the show sucks aside from Daryl, or sucks aside from Carol. People say that the newer characters are meaningless and filler and should be written out to allow established characters more airtime.

[Pete Martell]

Possibly, but I don't think so. I have no interest in Carol's mental journey, or Morgan's, or Rick's, or FPP or anyone else at this stage. Or really scary zombie scenes. Some characters I like, die. Some I don't like, keep living. Yada yada yada. We have seen this over and over.

 

What I would like is some plot direction. Where are these people going? Where does society end up? What do they benefit from as they go through these trials (they don't seem to learn much). Right now it appears society will end with a wimper, as broken survivors either can't get along, or wander off. if so, I guess that's an ending. Until we get there, however, what we are seeing is wheels spinning in mud.

 

That's why I stopped watching. Sad to see Denise go, though. I like the quiet ones.

 

I think you'd enjoy episode 12. It sort of goes into this, a bit. It's one of my favorite episodes of the whole series. But I totally respect you quitting. I quit for the first half of this season and only started again when I knew a certain story was over.

[paigow]

Seems like Denise was more a victim of the Dead Blonde Female trope.

She would have made a good Neganite...talks too much...gets killed

[Pete Martell]

The problem being is that the man is helpless and hopeless.  He doesn't go out on runs or do much else, from what we've seen, to help the community.  If someone else is trapped by walkers, his first instinct is to run and hide.  Which means he's gonna die, and die soon.  Does Carol need a bland, boring boyfriend who's gonna die quickly and add to her grief?  She deserves a man who can keep himself alive for a length of time, and who won't bore her to death.  RIck has his problems, but being boring ain't one of them.  Spencer at least is cute and has a killer bod.  Abe is amusing with his turn of phrases.  Tobin's got none of these attributes.  And I'm not even bringing Daryl into the conversation.  The writers need to bring in a kick-ass man to ASZ just for her - good looking and handy with the weapons.

 

I think it's his ordinariness that made him a safe choice for Carol. 

[ShadowSixx]

I'm still waiting to see a fat zombie. Sure, I suppose they would burn off fat when they move, but somehow the zombie population is much trimmer and slimmer on average than the actual American population.

 

There was a chunky zombie, remember when Glenn was lowered into the well to get the zombie out of there because it was possibly infecting the water. That's the only one I distinctly remember being chunky. I'm thinking that I've seen another one somewhere during the early seasons of the show. 

 

Remember when the zombies were smarter in the 1st season they could turn door knobs and run, one even ripped Dale's stomach open, used rock to break glass, and even in the first episode that little girl zombie picked up a teddy bear. Now the zombies have no intelligence.

Edited March 22, 2016 by ShadowSixx

[AndySmith]

Another reason I'll miss Denise is because she was representing for us chunky folk

 

Well, Eugene is still around...

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Eugene just changed the whole dynamic of the group.

 

CDB used to mean Camp Dinner Bell.  Now, its ..... you guessed it, and yes, its the same initials.

[JackONeill]

Some people want to fill the world with

Silly love songs.

[kira28]

 

Denise, what can I say? I think she was being reckless all episode, and fine, that's her choice, but she kinda made Rosita and Daryl responsible for her safety, so when you act stupid and get killed, that weighs on those people's minds.

Yep, unpopular opinion but she was indeed very reckless the entire trip. I wanted to slap her when she wandered off in the pharmacy. There was noise of a walker and she wanted to investigate even though she wouldn't have been able to defend herself. She's a grown woman who went to school to be a psychologist she should have enough common sense to realize that all of those meds were a huge find and VERY important and that they needed to collect them and get the hell out of there as quickly and QUIETLY as possible and she goes wandering off like a four year old and starts banging around making noise. I wanted them to leave her there after that.  Then after both Daryl and Rosita warn her not to bother with the car what does dumb Denise do.. opens the door putting herself and her friends in danger. One of them could have gotten bitten trying to save her. I realize she wanted to prove herself but she was incredibly selfish and stupid. I was sitting there wishing a walker would get her then bam she died. Sorry to say I wasn't the least bit upset. She wasn't a "real" doctor who practiced medicine before the apocalypse  she was just some woman who hastily read some medical books and became their doctor because everyone else had less training than she did. I'm sure it will be easy to find someone to replace her. 

 

Loved Eugene. Father Gabriel looked hot to me walking around with that gun like he owned it. Every since he shot one of Neegan's people I look at him totally differently. I would be upset at this point if he gets killed. Come back Carol!! You know Daryl is going to try to find you.  I really wish Sasha had turned Abe down and he was all alone. He deserved that after how Rosita treated him.  Sasha was in love with Bob not that long ago. How can she move on so quickly and with basically a guy who was someone else's man two days ago. He threw Rosita away like she was trash. he will do the same to Sasha when someone new catches his eye. He doesn't deserve to be happy. Rosita had his back since day one. (and still does) and he let her believe he was into her and cared for her then one day up and tossed her out. Have fun with Rosita's leftovers Sasha.  Feel bad for Daryl. Everyone he gets close to either gets killed or leaves him.

[natyxg]

r

Or the "I'll tell you I love you when I get back" trope. Honestly, when Tara said that didn't we all know one of them was toast?

 

I was so sure it would be Tara.

Edited March 22, 2016 by natyxg