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Lisin

S01.E17: Turn, Turn, Turn

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Coulson and his team find themselves without anyone they can trust, only to discover that they are trapped with a traitor in their midst.
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Should we take bets now on who either mentions The Byrds or states that "To Everything There is a Season" ? or quotes some of the lyrics of the song (time to kill, time to die, time to heal, time to plant, time to reap, etc).

My money is on Coulson or Garrett -- because Skye would have no idea, she would likely think the title of this episode was GPS driving instructions.

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Skye's been the one making most of the pop-cult refs, though! Nobody else even knew The Big Lebowski. For shame.

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Skye's been the one making most of the pop-cult refs, though! Nobody else even knew The Big Lebowski. For shame.

I don't know.  I can see Coulson referencing the song.  He has an appreciation of older things (see his Captain America trading cards and Lola.)

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In episode 1x16, when Garrett talks to Skye, he says: "Guess it all comes full circle. Ward's your S.O., I was his. Turn, turn, turn. But this S.O. thing goes both ways.You had a big impact on him." (in the interrogation room, when he's cozying up to her)

Edited by katusch
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This episode is up on Hulu already. I haven't watched, but I read spoilers, and... wow. I did accurately predict one thing, but some of the events surprised me.

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I'm not even sure I can form a coherent thought right now. This episode was just so.... AMAZING. So many good things, I'm not sure I could even name half of them.  The whole episode was incredibly intense. And Ward is Hydra?  Whoa. I just... have no words. Fitz broke my heart with his tears and desire to find Simmons. 

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I had heard this episode tied into Captain America: The Winter Soldier, so I made a point of seeing it this weekend.  I'm glad I did...although that meant that I knew some of what was coming it also meant that everything made more sense.  THIS is how you do a tie in to a movie, and not the passing side story they made to Thor 2 after that came out.  The last two episodes of AoS have practically redeemed the entire season for me, I hope they continue to finish this season on a high note!

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I knew too, I did read some spoilers, so I knew someone high up was a traitor.  I thought it would be Hand, though Garrett was not a surprise.  And I am calling it now, Ward's been brainwashed like Bucky Barnes was.  It is seeping away a little bit.  

 

Best episode since the pilot.  Some many good twists.  Really feared for Fitz there but I loved the reaction shot of all of them (even Garrett) when Skye decoded the Hydra message.  Though, by the end of the season, can I get a Fury/Coulson "'Bout damn time" scolding?  

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So, I guess I need to rewatch the entire season to be able to process this.  Hang on, Garrett was in the room with Nash.  How did he have the computer speak for him?  Super secret texting? This is me picking up my blown mind.  Now, I'm paranoid either Fitz or Simmons is HYDRA.

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Wow, this felt like a way different, compared to the others.  A much, much better show too.  Really, the only complaint I have was the momentum killing Ward/Skye romance scene, which was as boring as I expected.  Even then, depending on how this last twist goes, that might not ever happen again.

Figured and glad that Hand wasn't The Clairvoyant, but it was Garrett.  Can't trust Bill Paxton!  I liked that when the reveal happened, it didn't feel like a completely different person or anything: he strangely still acted like Garrett from the past, but just was doing evil shit.  Curious to see where this goes.

Bummed that Hand is dead, unless this was a major play by her and Ward, and he's actually going undercover.  But that would really be a stretch, IMO.

Captain America: Winter Solider was clearly the best thing to happen to this show.

Edited by thuganomics85
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Still waiting on Ward to say "Hail HYDRA", at least give us that.

I have no problem with Triplett replacing Ward, if that's the way they go.  Triplett doesn't have that damn romance with Skye storyline going.  And he recognizes the awesomeness that is Simmons.

Get off your high horse Coulson, and treat May better.  How evil of her to report to Fury about you and not tell you about what happened.  You've been the ultimate example of not covering stuff up, or lying to your team.

 

So, I guess I need to rewatch the entire season to be able to process this.  Hang on, Garrett was in the room with Nash.  How did he have the computer speak for him?  Super secret texting? This is me picking up my blown mind.  Now, I'm paranoid either Fitz or Simmons is HYDRA.

They just think that Garrett is the Clairvoyant, he's obviously not.  The popular theory is The Clairvoyant was in Winter Soldier.

Edited by Jediknight
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Maybe Ward is plying a long con/triple agent game: where he can find out how thoroughly through the rank and file Hydra infiltrated. If plenty of Level 5 "mooks"/foot soldiers where swayed, what about the  Level 4s and lower who were/are converts?

I feel badly for Melinda May; her most trusted friend and confidant thinks she's turned traitor to everything they hold dear and then after getting shot, is told she's no more than an "ally". I know Melinda gets it mentally, but emotionally, it was a gut punch, I'm sure.

For all the folks wondering how Agent Coulson made it through SHIELD, this was the episode that showed how.

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In my opinion, next season has more potential to stay interesting if Ward has truly joined Hydra and not deep cover. 

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A much better episode than previous ones, with highlights for me being May, Hand and her test, poor Fitz crying, and Ward's cold betrayal at the end.  This really did feel like a different show than it's been, and I'm looking forward to more follow up on this mess.

But I just couldn't stand how Coulson treated May (who, again, was awesome) this episode.  It would be one thing to be upset, but he was convinced right off the bat that May was ~the enemy~  and he was totally unapologetic even when it turned out that May wasn't a bad guy.  It's unfortunate that this show has turned my feelings toward his character from mild fondness to loathing.

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I agree with those that hope Ward really has gone over to the dark side and this isn't just deep cover.  And to answer your question Skye, WE'RE the ones that are calling Ward boring.  But if he's really turned then I'm willing to consider re-thinking that.  The last 5 minutes of the episode have been the most involved I've been in his character all season.

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Man, I hate that Ward has been brainwashed into this (as made clear in the end tag), because it's such an easy out, and once more this show has no stakes. No one's getting killed, no one's changing, there is no antagonist within the group. Boring. I hated that scene with him and Skye so much. Honestly, a grenade thrown in that broom closet would have gone a long way to solving a lot of my problems with this show.

Edited by Carrie Ann
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It wasn't bad, but I can't help but feel the writing is still so heavy-handed that it partially undermined half of those twists & turns. And I seriously hope they're not going to do a "Victoria Hand faked her death w/Ward's help", storyline, cos we already have Fury pretending to be dead, Aos doesn't need to invite more unfavorable comparisons with Winter Soldier.

Edited by Kaoteek

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I really liked that episode. I hope that Ward is actually evil and not some kind of double/triple agent (if he really shot Hand -- if it wasn't faked like Fury's death -- then there's no redeeming him for me, in any case). The Skye/Ward kiss wasn't as bad as I was expecting it to be. It was quick and not really romantic. I liked that she clarified she wasn't offering up sex back at that bar; she really just did want to talk. I also liked that she knew about Ward and May, because she's right -- the idea of anyone hiding a relationship on that plane is silly.

Fitz was great this episode, with the tears and the quick thinking and the obvious anguish at shooting someone. I still find Triplett boring and I don't think that actor is very good, but I suppose he'll be a good guy to have on the team in Ward's place, and I liked how he handled Hand's test. I feel bad for May and think that Coulson is overreacting. And I'm worried that Simmons is hiding something big -- that line about how she's getting better at lying was suspicious. She'd better not be the real Clairvoyant.

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Wow, there are some interesting ideas in this thread.  While I was watching the episode, it didn't even dawn on me that Ward might really be bad.  I figured he and Garrett still suspected Hand of being Hydra and that the fight between Garrett and Coulson was staged because they knew they were being watched (or listened to) by Hand and her people.  It'd be an interesting turn if Ward's actually part of Hydra.

I don't know that I believe anyone we've seen so far is the Clairvoyant.  

Overall I loved this episode.  But I'm beginning to think I would be a terrible agent because I can't hold intense conversations with potential romantic partners while a dozen armed men who want me dead are on the other side of a door.  (Too bad, 'cause I know I'd be kick-ass at the hand to hand combat.)  I'm used to shows tossing in a couple of lines in moments like that, but that conversation between Skye and Ward had me wondering why they had so much time for dawdling around.  I don't dislike either Ward or Skye, but I don't really like them together.

Fitz-Simmons are getting better all the time.

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Killing Victoria Hand is hack, BAD writing. Fridging an interesting, important and effective female character so the big slab of meat male has some character development. What a waste! Jed Whedon and Maurissa Tancharoen continue to prove they have no deft touch or class whatsoever and obviously no ability to rise above their cheap TV sensibilities. Bringing their Spartacus touch I see.

That they had in their hands a character with her potential and ALL they could think to do with her is make her be a thorn in the side of "Team Special Snowflake" and then put a bullet in her brain is freaking mind boggling!

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I'd be angrier about them killing Hand if she were the only strong female character on this show, but we have May and Simmons, as well as Skye (who isn't as bad as TWoPpers make her out to be, in my opinion), and on the villain side, Reyna, as well as multiple good guest star characters. It's not like this is your usual five-man band with the one chick -- this show does treat its female characters well. A show shouldn't kill only male characters just to avoid being accused of fridging (a term I've seen tossed around a lot lately -- Hannibal came under the same fire a couple weeks ago, and it's another show that writes strong, complex female characters).

I am disappointed that Hand is gone, though. I liked her quite a bit. Although it would be a Cap 2 ripoff to have her death be faked, I wouldn't mind if it meant we got to see more of her taking charge and dispensing pointed sarcasm.

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Just because they have a few other good female characters, doesn't excuse wasting one with her background and potential. And that's not even getting into a discussion of the female characters they have since I personally don't agree with you about Skye or Reyna.

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I have no problem with Triplett replacing Ward, if that's the way they go. Triplett doesn't have that damn romance with Skye storyline going. And he recognizes the awesomeness that is Simmons.

I agree with you. I enjoy Triplett & the Skye/Ward thing makes me want to stab things. I FF'd through the entire kiss of snooze & it helped immensely. So that helps me want to join y'all in voting for Ward actually being Hydra. Please, please, please don't let him be brain washed. I don't think he can be undercover unless Agent Hand is alive & that would be slightly lame & make it seem as if no one really dies at Shield.
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Just because they have a few other good female characters, doesn't excuse wasting one with her background and potential. 

I agree that it was far too early to kill her. However, I don't see it as fridging. Sometimes good characters die. Sometimes those characters are female. Her death did have a big impact on the other characters and the story line, just like the death on Hannibal. Neither of those deaths would have meant as much had the murdered characters not been strong and interesting.

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So killing any female character is fridging? I'm glad she didn't turn out to be Hydra but I won't miss her.

 

Man, I hate that Ward has been brainwashed into this (as made clear in the end tag), because it's such an easy out, and once more this show has no stakes. No one's getting killed, no one's changing, there is no antagonist within the group. Boring. I hated that scene with him and Skye so much. Honestly, a grenade thrown in that broom closet would have gone a long way to solving a lot of my problems with this show.

It hasn't been made clear that he was brainwashed. It was more that he felt a little bad about murdering Hand but he's still a traitor 

Edited by VCRTracking
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Well, it's all interpretation at this point, and I interpreted Ward's going dead-eyed and his hearing fuzzing out as him being Out To Lunch. I don't see the point in that being the weekly big shocking final scene if it just meant that he was feeling a little bad about killing three people. But who knows with this show? Maybe where I saw "dead-eyed" it was really just Brett Dalton trying to emote.

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So I confirmed why the boyfriend hates watching this show with me. When Colson said Garret defeated them "by being a friend" I laughed and started singing The Golden Girls theme song.

I also had said that Garret was evil from his first appearance, but lost any points that had earned me by not knowing that Bill Pulman and Bill Paxton are different people. 

This episode was one of the better ones, I'd been wondering how they were going to tie in Captain America... though if they'd said Fury was alive, would that have been a spoiler? I doubt there's anyone watching this show who didn't see CA:WS already. 

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I saw CA:TWS this weekend and the Triskelion was impressive.  Then we get the TV show and SHIELD civil war played out in a couple of basement rooms and corridors.  Inviting a direct comparison was really not the best plan.

Coulson was brought back to life by alien juice.  Once he learned that, he should have realized that he wasn't going to be allowed to roam about with zero monitoring; SHIELD just doesn't work that way and there's no excuse for him not to have known it.  Still wish we knew why it was so important to bring him back.  Hopefully the show will get around to revealing that little tidbit.  Maybe by the end of the third season...

As usual, I like May, Fitz-Simmons and Triplett.  I also like the academy principal.  Coulson's angst is getting tiresome.  Ward's turnabout might mean something if we knew more about Ward, and if he weren't a series regular; given all that, it's just arbitrary.

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So killing any female character is fridging? I'm glad she didn't turn out to be Hydra but I won't miss her.

No, generally "fridging" is killing a female love interest just to give some motivation to a male lead character. If Skye had been killed and Ward/Coulson had gone on a vendetta against HYDRA as a result, that would have been fridging.

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Hand isn't dead, Ward isn't Hydra. They made a point of Ward getting briefed off to the side just prior, and he shot her in the body, not the head.

I agree with the special snowflake romance. Enough.

Too bad Garrett was the super bad guy, Ming-Na would have been perfect in that role.

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I realize that I may be jumping the gun, but from what I just watched? Welcome to the Tommy Westphall universe, MARVEL universe! You're in good company. :)

Hand isn't dead, Ward isn't Hydra. They made a point of Ward getting briefed off to the side just prior, and he shot her in the body, not the head.

I agree with the special snowflake romance. Enough.

Too bad Garrett was the super bad guy, Ming-Na would have been perfect in that role.

While I don't think that it would have been in character for May, I agree that she would have made not only a formidable opponent, but a really fun one, too (I do so love May, I'd like to see her get more development)- I had been hoping that at least it wouldn't be Garrett because it seemed so obvious (one of those situations where the casting was the give-away; the first episode he was in, I was like 'Please, let it not be Paxton'), but I suppose that it could have played out worse than it did.

And yeah... I'm with ya, Ward is definitely not HYDRA and I don't think that Hand is dead. The aside and the nod before he left made that pretty clear to me- seems like he's there to help root out the traitors on Hand/Coulson's orders. But methinks maintaining that cover is going to torpedo the drink with Skye; this seems like the type of scenario wherein she'll take the Under-Cover-Means-No-One-Else-Can-Know-Including-My-Friends thing personally.

No, generally "fridging" is killing a female love interest just to give some motivation to a male lead character. If Skye had been killed and Ward/Coulson had gone on a vendetta against HYDRA as a result, that would have been fridging.

Indeed- a case could be made for it being a case of bad writing, however I don't think that killing her, if she is indeed dead, qualifies as "fridging" at all.

Edited by Sheena
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Put me down for thinking Hand is still alive. I also have a different take on the Ward/Skye scene. He insisted he just wanted to talk, I think he's supposed to get cozy with her to find out just what 084 (or whatever the number is) means. Find out what makes her different. He's playing her as well as everyone else. I also do think he's a triple agent but I actually find the darker Ward far more interesting.

Edited by caseylane
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I apparently am the only one who watches this show who hasn't seen CA: WS yet. I did think the episode was the best yet. I love Bill Paxton, great bit for him. Based on some promos I saw I had expected Patton Oswalt in last nights show but I guess that is next week. For me, even if the CA:WS tie in makes everything super special, I still haven't liked the season to date that much. WonderSkye pretty much cut the heart out of my enjoyment. 

Edited by Quickbeam

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I apparently am the only one who watches this show who hasn't seen CA: WS yet.

Go see it.  Best Marvel movie ever.  Yes, even better than Avengers.  Right now I'd rank it behind Superman 2 for my favorite superhero movie.

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I apparently am the only one who watches this show who hasn't seen CA: WS yet. 

You're not. Hopefully will get to see it soon, as otherwise it'll be impossible to avoid spoilers. Too much hinting going in this episode to suggest otherwise. It would doubly suck for someone who lives somewhere that the movie isn't even available yet.

I had my head in my hands during the whole Ward/Skye exchange.

What would have been intriguing at the end is if they switched to a Ward ocular view (like Mike P, and the black woman from an earlier episode), but that would have likely killed off some of the suspense.

Hydra symbol at the end was Made of Win.

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All I gotta say is that please, please no more Ward/Skye. I have just about enough of Skye. Although she has gotten better she still manages to irritate me.

Give me more of May. Ming Na and Clark Greeg are the reasons I stuck around.

And way to go Fitz!!!

I do hope Agent Hand isn't dead. I have grown to love her.

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Great episode, I loved how tense the episode was. Their world was falling apart and they betrayed that well. I'm going to hold off on the Ward being a traitor. I think it creates a great storyline, but like many here I'm not convinced he killed Hand.  That little scene with Coulson before he left to join Hand felt like them creating a plan for Ward to get deep into Hydra. I hope I'm wrong. The show has gotten a lot better the last few episodes and I hope they keep it up the rest of the season. So if Ward is truly evil, HAIL HYDRA!!!

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If Hand isn't dead, Garrett is an idiot. I'm pretty sure he'd notice the difference between Hand being shot right in front of him with an icer and with a real gun. And given Hydra's procilivity for backstabbing and lying I'd think he would check her body. Sure, she could have been drugged but the lack of bullet holes would be a give away.

I'll be very disappointed (though not surprised) if Ward is either faking being with Hydra or brainwashed. Actually making one of your main characters turn out to be a bad guy all along would be a daring and interesting move. Anything else would be the obvious and easy way out. Not to mention, while every Hydra operative may not know the identity of every single other one, given that Garrett was Ward's SO I would hope he'd be a bit suspicious that the straight laced agent he trained had all of a sudden switched sides.

As for Coulson and May...yeah, I'm having a hard time with his hypocricy. She was keeping secrets. So is he. SHIELD is built on them.

Edited by KirkB
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Ming-Na is amazing.  Can we just make the show about her? She killed it in that scene when Coulson was wrapping her arm up.  I admittedly love Coulson but his Skye blinders have kind of dampened that. Phil better get it together and realize the wonder that is May.

Maybe it is just me, but I don't really think Hand was all that.  Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed her but a) I find it hard to take her seriously as a huge badass with those red highlights (which I do love) and b) she was never more that a high level administrator to me.  Really the most interesting thing she has done is get shot (but I did enjoy her test for Simmons & Triplett).

The Hydra symbol was awesome.

Hopefully this amps things up in the show.

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This was an interesting episode. I liked Garrett being the Clairvoyant. Bill Paxton playing a bad guy is a win in my book. I like the possibilities of Coulson having had a real connection to the "big bad" of the season and how that can be played.

I liked Triplett's role. I wouldn't mind seeing him join the team. He's a specialist and he can create a little conflict/jealousy between Fitz and Simmons.

I didn't want Hand to die. She's the most capable S.H.I.E.L.D agent we've seen on the show. Loved it when she didn't respond when Coulson said "Guess you can call me Phil." To me the silence implied.."And you can still call me Agent Hand." It would have been nice to have someone who's not always on the team's side as the series goes on.

I'll be happy about the Ward twist if they let him stay bad. But with this show, I don't trust them to do it.

Coulson's scenes with May were good. There was real emotion. But he's also being a hypocrite. As Hand put it in her questioning of Simmons, Coulson's actions have been suspect to say the least. While he's not HYDRA, there is real evidence for pulling him from the field. May is probably the reason he got to stay out in the field before now instead of being parked behind a desk reading reports. I hope it doesn't mean he'll be getting even closer to the snowflake, but it probably does. Next week on S.H.I.E.L.D - a very special episode where Coulson formally adopts snowflake and Skye finally gets a last name.

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Yes I agree with Ward staying bad. I'd love for him to stay bad. Mr. Handsome, as a tv critic calls him, it would be nice to see some emotions from him.

Yes i agree about Triplett. Love the guy. Maybe, he can stay and Skye can just go away.

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I hope Ward is evil, but I'm pretty sure he's playing a deeper game - he never said "Hail Hydra."

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I don't know if Skye can be blamed for turning away fans. I know that was accepted as fact over at TWoP, but Skye is pretty loved on Tumblr, and she seems to be liked just fine on Reddit. Chloe Bennet and Clark Gregg also got the biggest applause when introduced at PaleyFest. I like the show, but it has some problems, and the other characters praising Skye -- while definitely annoying -- is only one of those problems. 

DVR results are usually decent for this show, right? I could see a lot of people waiting until after they see CA: TWS to catch up on this.

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