S01.E06: Star City 2046

[scarynikki12]

When a malfunction sends the Waverider crashing into 2046 Star City, our heroes face a startling version of their own future where they never stop Savage and never return home.

 

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czMm_1HI1FM

[scarynikki12]

Old Man Oliver looks so goofy.

Still, it was great seeing him and Sara working together again.

Not gonna lie, the high school shenanigans amused me more than it had any right to. I think a bit of Ciara was coming through in Kendra's scenes which I loved as I find her delightful.

Rip is the de facto leader but the team follows Sara. Their unintentional leadership clash is very interesting to watch.

Cold's heart just keeps growing doesn't it? And I adore the burgeoning friendship between Mick and Ray.

[bettername2come]

John Diggle, Jr.! I was right! This shall sustain me through, like, four missteps, show! Thank you!

[Lantern7]

No hiatus for the show? Nice. It should help me go through Flash/Arrow withdrawal.

 

I know Grant Wilson is a canon character, but I kept thinking of him as "Kylo Stroke." John/Conner seemed cool, though. I wonder if Sara Diggle is still around. Oh, right . . . nothing ever goes right in Star City, so she's probably dead.

 

Aw, Leonard and Mick had a tiff. Heat Wave seemed at home there. In other news . . . a love triangle? Really? I would think that Kendra wouldn't be on Ray's radar because she doesn't have a high IQ like Felicity. Looks like she'll be taking a break from love . . . much like Iris, come to think of it. And part of me "ships" her with Cisco.

 

Since when does Kendra have recall about her past lives?

[nksarmi]

I love this show so much.  Sara really is the second in command - I don't think Rip was expecting one.

 

Kendra and Ray are cute, but I'm glad they did that and then left it.  But you know, with as cute and young looking as BR is - he's probably too old for Kendra.  And Jax is likely too young for her.  Actually, I'm confused to how old everyone is but still if JAX isn't old enough to drink - he's definitely on the young side of things.

 

I didn't expect this kind of drama to arise between Heat and Cold, but damn I'm fascinated by it.  Cold SO wants to be a hero even if he can't admit it to himself. (It's totally a result of his crush on Barry combined with his new interest in Sara and Ray - yes, I ship him with everyone - leave me alone!)

Edited February 26, 2016 by nksarmi

[foreverevolving]

Kudos to anyone who guessed Hawke was actually Diggle son.

 

I was so confused on whether Felicity was alive or not.. on the one hand Oliver said they were all gone, on other he said she placed all the Smoak Tech stuff in the warehouse before she left...

 

I liked Ray and Kendra, the actors had good chemistry, I like that they keep switching the actors around i'm sure it helps to build a good relationship between the actors too. Very smart.

 

I guess Mick and Snart are in a very very bad place now. I don't blame Mick but... yea he's the kind of person who tends to self destruct if someone isn't there to rein him in.. which is what Snart does. Was there any rumors about the actor not being on set for the last few episodes?

 

I agree Rip may be the de facto leader but Sara is the one everyone seems to naturally want to follow.

 

LoA was brought up.. does this mean the league is back in action in 2046?

 

I laughed so hard at poor Stein having to suffer through Jax emotions.. it must sucks having a connection with a teenager!

[Jediknight]

So William doesn't become Connor Hawke, it's Diggle's son.

 

Great to see the love triangle ended quickly, and there was no angst.  I enjoyed Stein's "Oh crap" realization after Ray let it be known he's interested in Kendra, and Ray and Jefferson joking after Kendra turned down Ray.  They're still keeping the team dynamic for the most part, things are a little rough between Cold and Heatwave, but that will sort itself out.

 

The team could have gotten there a little faster to save Connor, and Firestorm could have flown.

[Sakura12]

I liked seeing Sara and Oliver talk to each other since we missed seeing that on Arrow. 

 

I also like that Sara does seem to be the unofficial second in command. Rip's still kind of an ass since he takes credit for things that he had nothing to do with. Like telling Kendra he knew about Sara's bloodlust because he's the Captain of the ship, when he had no clue about it until he saw it. And now saying he sent in the back up when it was Stein that convinced him to help. 

 

What is with the sausage fest, why couldn't we get a Sara Diggle mention? I'm guessing that Sara still doesn't know about Diggle's daughter being named after her.

 

I just went with everyone's dead, Lance, Laurel, Thea, Diggle and Felicity. 

 

So Snart and Mick broke up. Leonard wants to be help save the world even if he doesn't realize it. 

 

The love triangle was weird and not the one I was expecting. How old is Kendra supposed to be? Jax is 20 and Ray has to be mid-thirties. 

[Actionmage]

Jax got Hawkblocked by Grey! Man, that was colder than Snart.

 

Dark Knight Oliver in full grump effect!

 

Baby Deathstroke!

 

I see what you did, Show; with the John/Conner thing. Someone a Terminator fan?

 

It was fun and I am glad that Leonard is more mission-oriented than Mick, but Mick a) can wear a fur coat and b) loosens up now and again. The last may be why he's a bit drawn to Sara, the badass assassin who doesn't mind partying.

 

Glad that one potential triangle was at least looked at and tabled. It hasn't been very long since Carter died, not that Kendra- as Kendra- had a (currently) strong bond with him, but  yeah. It's barely been a minute. Simmer down, Jax.

 

Interested in next week!

[benteen]

Really enjoyable.  I liked the reveal that Connor is John Diggle Jr. and it was fun seeing Oliver in this way.  Definitely agree that Sara is becoming the heart and soul of the team.  The Snart and Mick fallout is intriguing.  Ray and Kendra were good together and Stein was quite entertaining.

[mtlchick]

I interpreted that Felicity was alive in 2046 or at least survived the initial Uprising. Ollie said that she "left" but never said she was dead.  

 

The cast is starting to gel together and the pair offs are working quite nicely.  Hey Kendra?  Just because Carter was your soulmate doesn't mean he had to dull as dirt and sort of creepy before he bought it (in this lifetime anyway.) 

 

 

Since when does Kendra have recall about her past lives?

I'm taking it as she is slowly recovering all of her memories in bits and pieces and throws them out when it comes to the needed skill for the episode.  

[Iamsweetdee]

Why the fuck would they go to the trouble of using the name Connor Hawke if he weren't going to be, you know, Connor Fucking Hawke? Could ole Oliver not be sullied with sleeping with a woman that has some color to her? This show is shit.

[Lokiberry]

Having Oliver knock up another woman after the recent baby mama drama on Arrow would be both repetitive, and risk the lead character of a sister show losing audience respect that would be difficult to get back. Having Connor Hawke be JDJ, packs more of an emotional punch for the people who watch both shows, and makes the audience more invested in seeing him rescued even if this timeline isn't the real one.

 

Besides, these showrunners made Malcolm Merlyn Ra's al Ghul. They have a history of changing the comics to suit their needs. Except for when it comes to Sara not being the Black Canary. That particular aspect of comic lore is apparently written in stone.

[nksarmi]

Having Oliver knock up another woman after the recent baby mama drama on Arrow would be both repetitive, and risk the lead character of a sister show losing audience respect that would be difficult to get back. Having Connor Hawke be JDJ, packs more of an emotional punch for the people who watch both shows, and makes the audience more invested in seeing him rescued even if this timeline isn't the real one.

 

Besides, these showrunners made Malcolm Merlyn Ra's al Ghul. They have a history of changing the comics to suit their needs. Except for when it comes to Sara not being the Black Canary. That particular aspect of comic lore is apparently written in stone.

 

Actually, I strongly suspect it was written in someone's contract when she was hired.  It seems like they always intended to bring in Sara, kill her, and pass the mantle in the process.   It was a HUGE mistake, but I think that was their plan.  They only needed to deal with the Canary vs Black Canary vs White Canary thing when they realized just how BADLY people took them killing off Sara.

[Xenith22]

So I think we can cross John Diggle's name off the current dead pool list now right?   I mean since we know that Connor's dad was alive for the Uprising II...the only ways for John to have been the death is if :

 

1) The writers used nasty wordplay/trickery on us in which Andy Diggle is actually his father and so "my father died because I couldn't save him, I don't deserve his name" referred to the name his father gave him and not his father's actual name (at least not first name).   Surely they would not actually play that kind of dirty pool with us though right?

 

2) Sara and or Ray return to 2016 getting involved in the HIVE stuff and screw things up causing his death.   Honestly, I'm not sure  I could see them doing this to Sara yet?  It would be a pretty shitty thing to have her partly responsible for John Diggle's death thereby making the son she fought to save never exist.  (Because it is too soon for Lyla to be pregnant with him)

 

Which means the dead pool is essentially down to Quentin, Laurel, and Lyla.  Now Grant did mention Captain Lance...which would seem to imply Quentin is safe However I'm not discounting the possibility that Laurel could change her path and follow in her deceased Dad's footsteps joining the police force at some point in the 30 some years after his death.   (Kind of like Barbara Gordon in Batman Beyond)

 

On a different note, part of me wishes this episode had happened later in the shows run such that we could maybe believe for a minute that Mick or Sara would actually stay behind.  Because to me there-in lies the real potential of the show to have a potentially fluid cast of Legends giving it a level of unpredictability that Arrow/Flash/Supergirl can't have with their fixed casts.  But of course only 6 episodes in with Hawkman already having gone there was no way that anyone else would be left behind this soon.

Edited February 26, 2016 by Xenith22

[Actionmage]

Could ole Oliver not be sullied with sleeping with a woman that has some color to her?

 

Detective McKenna Hall from S1 seemed to not be white. Shado wasn't Caucasian either. 

 

I really hope Mick sticks around a bit longer and is at peace with  his reasons in the coming episode(s). I love how he has interacted with this team and always have enjoyed Mick and Len as a team.  I was not surprised that Len would bash Rory on the head, but I knew it wouldn't be fun when Mick woke up.  I find myself surprisingly really interested in how/ if Mick sticks around.

Edited February 26, 2016 by Actionmage

[ottoDbusdriver]

I'm just glad that Ollie's Arrow outfit no longer has bare arms by 2046 -- that seems like such a weak point in his outfit. Plus it looks stupid.

[tarotx]

I loved it. Oliver and Sara -My heart :) (Not in a shipping way. Just that I love them both so much. My favorite characters (with Moira, John Diggle and Barry filling out my top 5).

 

I actually really enjoyed Connor Hawk. I think making him JD jr was super sentlemental. I loved it. I did want him as Oliver's grandson but I think it works better this way. Oliver and Diggle- My heart <3

 

I'll talk more episode tomorrow since I'm not feeling good. But I love this show. 

[lion10]

This was the best episode Arrow's had all season.  

 

But for real, it was a really good episode.  Both sad and hopeful and I like the evolving dynamics of the team.  The Jax, Ray, and Kendra love triangle subplot was a little grating but I did like the emphasis on Stein and Jax's psychic bond.  I liked that Mick briefly ruled as a robber king.

 

It was interesting seeing what Star City had become in 2046.  It was a like a weird mashup of Old Man Logan and The Dark Knight Returns with Oliver missing his left arm.  I also liked how the fandom took to calling 2046 Oliver "Old Man Oliver".  

 

So I guess the LoT crew is headed to ancient Egypt to kill Vandal Savage there?

[Artsda]

 

Which means the dead pool is essentially down to Quentin, Laurel, and Lyla.

If Diggie Jr exists in 2046, wouldn't Lyla and Diggie have had to have another kid in the future? I think having a teen son in 2046 crosses Lyla out.

Edited February 26, 2016 by Artsda

[Xenith22]

If Diggie Jr exists in 2046, wouldn't Lyla and Diggie have had to have another kid in the future? I think having a teen son in 2046 crosses Lyla out.

Not necessarily.  Lyla was never mentioned in this episode.  So we have no evidence that John Jr is her son.  So the possibilities exist that John Jr is either adopted or the product of a second marriage after her death  (Depending on how old John Jr is supposed to be. *can't even find the actors age...remember when IMDB was useful for stuff like that?* But I am just assuming he is supposed to be early 20s that gives Diggle somewhere between 5-10 years to potentially meet someone else)

 

On a different note part of me wishes they had just realized they could easily go with Star City 2036 instead of 2046.  It's still 20 years in the future.  And there was no reason story or technology wise why that 10 years would have made a difference.  At most Arrow will probably run about 6 more seasons so there is still plenty of time after series end for the Uprising II event to have happened.

But then they could have had a 30 year old (they same age as current Oliver) William using the Connor alias (which is what he could have went by ever since he was sent away with his mom on Arrow to stay off of HIVEs radar) which at least for me would have then made that whole Arrow storyline feel so much less pointless other than to drive a wedge between Felicity and Oliver. 

Also you then could have included an early 20s Sara Diggle....which it could have been a nice moment for White Canary to meet and team-up with future version of her namesake.

Edited February 26, 2016 by Xenith22

[FurryFury]

Connor/John could be even 25 years old, so I think Lyla could easily be his mother. She's not that old, really. Women can have children even at 45, or even older.

 

I too was irked he's never mentioned his sister. Either she's dead or the writers have decided it was a too obscure fact to bring up in a crossover episode.

 

I don't see why they didn't use Slade's canon son Joe, other than him probably being in his 40s at that point and the writers going for Arrow The Next Generation vibe. Kudos for "Kylo Stroke" name. Grant Wilson was a punk, really. And the actor should probably go play a Winchester of some kind over on Supernatural because he really looks like Jared Padalecki.

 

Overall, loved the episode. Lots of callbacks, Old Man Oliver's beard wasn't as bad as in the promo photos (still pretty bad though), Oliver/Sara (yay!), Sara/Rip (loving their intense dynamic - I'm a sucker for relationships of this kind), I guess Sara's going to become his unofficial second-in-command. Really, the A-plot was great, other than some clunky dialogue.

 

The B-plot was... Not bad, considering the subject matter, but it certainly felt out of place, compared to the darkness and intensity of A- and C-plots. I did like that it was less about the potential love triangle and more about Jax's growth. And the Jax/Stein relationship is growing on me. I don't really buy Ray/Kendra, though. She seems too plain for him, personality-wise. Although, of course, there's the demigoddess angle. (But really, can we stop with the "I was a normal person until recently?" crap? It's like the writers can't create any real characterization for her so they keep rehashing her backstory).

 

I'm intrigued on what happens to Mick. He kinda seems like being set-up to betray the team at some point.

Edited February 26, 2016 by FurryFury

[BkWurm1]

This was the best episode Arrow's had all season.

 

Ha!  Seriously though, it felt like a thirty year reunion show.  It was good as an AU but I'm happy to believe that the first thing Sara does when she gets the chance is to mention Grant Wilson, thus giving them the heads up they'll need to stop him from ever getting an army. 

 

 

 

Having Oliver knock up another woman after the recent baby mama drama on Arrow would be both repetitive, and risk the lead character of a sister show losing audience respect that would be difficult to get back. Having Connor Hawke be JDJ, packs more of an emotional punch for the people who watch both shows, and makes the audience more invested in seeing him rescued even if this timeline isn't the real one.

 

 

I was so ridiculously happy that he was Diggle Jr. There might have been fist pumps involved.   Yeah, it was a great shortcut for making me care about him. 

 

 

 

 

 

Not necessarily.  Lyla was never mentioned in this episode.  So we have no evidence that John Jr is her son.  So the possibilities exist that John Jr is either adopted or the product of a second marriage after her death  (Depending on how old John Jr is supposed to be. *can't even find the actors age...remember when IMDB was useful for stuff like that?* But I am just assuming he is supposed to be early 20s that gives Diggle somewhere between 5-10 years to potentially meet someone else)

I don't think Lyla is on the table for being in the grave.  I really think it's one of the regulars.

 

I'm terrible judging ages between early twenties and early thirties.  I want to believe this means Diggle's safe but if Jr was say 29, then he could be the child left behind to grow up without his father.  :(  (It's not Diggle, it's not Diggle, everyone start chanting it to the universe)

 

It was interesting how Oliver really never confirmed that anyone was dead.  At first he seemed to say that everyone was dead (they're all gone) but it certainly sounded like Felicity had gone via leaving the city rather than death.  I want to say it seems out of character for her to leave and not come back (though if she thought Oliver was dead and there was no one left to save I could believe it) 

 

Of course just the premise seemed really out of character for the United States of America to hand over one of it's cities to a blatant bunch of criminals for fifteen years.  If there was any hint at normal life going on in the daylight I could think it was just the authorities turning a blind eye but it was supposed to be no one but the criminal element left.  They'd bomb the place before they'd cede control that long. 

[Proteus]

Another great episode. I love this show so much.

[BkWurm1]

The B-plot was... Not bad, considering the subject matter, but it certainly felt out of place, compared to the darkness and intensity of A- and C-plots. I did like that it was less about the potential love triangle and more about Jax's growth. And the Jax/Stein relationship is growing on me. I don't really buy Ray/Kendra, though. She seems too plain for him, personality-wise. Although, of course, there's the demigoddess angle. (But really, can we stop with the "I was a normal person until recently?" crap? It's like the writers can't create any real characterization for her so they keep rehashing her backstory).

 

I'm intrigued on what happens to Mick. He kinda seems like being set-up to betray the team at some point.

 

Ray really seemed to be trying out the "love the one you're with" angle.  I think (after Stein pointed it out) he decided hey, she's fun and she's here.  Why not?  I don't think he was looking for a soulmate. 

 

Some of the expressions on Victor Garber's face were priceless as he processed Jax's emotions and then tried to play matchmaker only to put the idea in Ray's head.  I think I could really learn to love them saying aloud what the other is feeling.  This is the first episode where I was really enjoying Jax all on his own.  Kendra too.   

 

Mick is the one I always assumed would betray them but now I'm not so sure.  He's mad and all set to go on his own but last week he also seemed more emotionally connected than Snart.  Wondering if Mick will have a revelation that cements his place on the team or if he will be the threat they don't see coming. It feels like it could go either way. 

 

Good episode.

[yellowfred]

So, as much as I liked the reveal of the new Green Arrow being John Diggle, Jr., I kind of had to roll my eyes at him choosing to go by "Conner Hawke."  Like, did he pick that name out of a hat?  I half expected him to say he read it in a comic book or something, because there was absolutely no in-universe reason for him to be using it.

 

I really liked getting to see Sara and Old Man Oliver interact (even though, between her hair and his beard, it was not a great time for personal styling choices).  The two of them still play off of each other really well and I think their friendship is easily one of Sara's strongest connections to her sense of humanity.  I love that Sara's more firmly planting herself on the side of "people before the mission," which will probably put her at odds with Rip more often.  I also appreciate that, much like myself, Sara has taken to ignoring Rip's vague and often contradictory warnings about timeline stuff.

 

One thing that continues to not really work for me is how impressed people are by the cold and heat guns.  Like, Heatwave is basically carrying a slightly modified flamethrower.  Will people thirty years in the future still be awed by that?  Also, in terms of doing actual damage, neither of their weapons are as effective as a normal gun.  

[thuganomics85]

Connor Hawke is actually John Diggle Jr.!  Sure, that's pretty much throwing comic cannon out the window, but I loved it!  I do wished they mentioned something about Current Baby Sara, though.  Did she grow to be an awesome crime fighter too?  I would hope so!  And I'm hoping this means Diggle is a less likely suspect to be the one in that grave over on Arrow, but I guess they could still just have Lyla get pregnant again, and then he dies.

 

Not surprised Sara would get emotionally invested into what was happening to Star City, and finally taking a stand against it.  I liked her standing up to Rip, because it really does feel like at times, he's making himself the exception to the rules, and out of everyone here, I think her the most believable person to not only call him out on his shit, but he would actually take it into account on some levels.  Plus, she has enough respect from the rest of the team that they would back her too.  Interesting dynamics they are creating with her and the rest.

 

Even though I like the various new pairings, it was nice to get more focus on Snart and Mick, and seeing them at odds, with Snart slowly embracing the mission and the team, while Mick is still all about the chaos and crime, even if he has a soft spot for the team that he doesn't want to fully admit yet.  But I do wonder if it is only a matter of time before they really come to blows.  Definitely thought this episode made a good use of Wentworth Miller and Dominic Purcell's easygoing chemistry (no doubt helped by their stint on Prison Break), and I continue to be surprised over how much I like Mick in particular.

 

The ship stuff being reduced to a basic love triangle between Kendra, Ray, and Jefferson was a bit strange and silly, but I guess it would have been worse.  Kendra really did seem to have chemistry with any of the guys, so I'm not wild about it ever being revisited again, even though I want her to move past that dullard, Conner.  I did enjoy Martin being effected by his psychic link to Jefferson, and him accidentally making things worse.  Victor Garber pretty much can do anything, I think.

 

Old Man Oliver Queen was basically what I expected he would be.

 

Sorry, Grant Wilson, but you don't have half the charisma Slade had, and aren't fit to be wear his mask.  I still miss Slade.  Manu Bennett was the best.

 

They've done the past and they've done the future, so I wonder where they will go next.

[BkWurm1]

They've done the past and they've done the future, so I wonder where they will go next.

 

The Bottle Episode!

 

I'm actually really looking forward to next week.  I love the character interaction. 

[FurryFury]

Sorry, Grant Wilson, but you don't have half the charisma Slade had, and aren't fit to be wear his mask.  I still miss Slade.  Manu Bennett was the best.

 

He really was. Too bad he wasn't impressed by the evolution of his character on the 2nd part of season 2 of Arrow (and I agree with him), and then they can't use the character anymore because of the movies (or so I hear). Because Slade could have been a good choice for a later season of LOT - if they've taken Cold and Heat, they could have taken him.

Edited February 26, 2016 by FurryFury

[cambridgeguy]

 

Why the fuck would they go to the trouble of using the name Connor Hawke if he weren't going to be, you know, Connor Fucking Hawke? Could ole Oliver not be sullied with sleeping with a woman that has some color to her? This show is shit.

Not everything is a sign of racism.  If Oliver was content to mope around his layer and pretend to be dead while his son was fighting and losing a one man battle to protect the city then he'd look even worse. 

 

Unfortunately, his math skills seem to have degraded.  Most of your arm is not literally one half of your body. 

 

Also, now Mick and Snart know that Oliver is the Green Arrow.  If and when they get back to the present they should go on a road trip to Star City.

Edited February 26, 2016 by cambridgeguy

[tarotx]

He's half the man he was not only because of the arm but because all his friends are gone and the city is in chaos.  

Not everything is a sign of racism.  If Oliver was content to mope around his layer and pretend to be dead while his son was fighting and losing a one man battle to protect the city then he'd look even worse. 

 

Unfortunately, his math skills seem to have degraded.  Most of your arm is not literally one half of your body. 

 

Also, now Mick and Snart know that Oliver is the Green Arrow.  If and when they get back to the present they should go on a road trip to Star City.

 

Because I love john Diggle he's never been on the death watch for me. You just don't throw away DR. Especially when you have not has important main characters. But there is no way Connor is a tv 30 so yeah Diggle's even more off the table for me. Plus Connor says he felt like he couldn't save his dad. That is usually code for the Boy was there when the father died even though he was too young to do anything. 

[Sakura12]

In an interview the actor playing Connor "John Diggle" Hawke said that the writers told him that Jr. was a teenager when his father died. 

 

It looks like they are going into space next week! . 

Edited February 26, 2016 by Sakura12

[benteen]

I forgot to mention but Mick shooting the guy with his flame gun after not hurting him with a punch was really funny.

 

Sara's Canary costume looks a lot better with the coat.

 

 

So, as much as I liked the reveal of the new Green Arrow being John Diggle, Jr., I kind of had to roll my eyes at him choosing to go by "Conner Hawke."  Like, did he pick that name out of a hat?  I half expected him to say he read it in a comic book or something, because there was absolutely no in-universe reason for him to be using it.

 

Heheh.  I completely agree.  It's so random and sounds like an attempt to be cool and badass.  What, was "Lance Manley" already taken?

[tarotx]

Maybe John Diggle jr has Connor for his middle name? Perhaps he was named after The Terminator movies and it could be that most people always called him Connor.  Or perhaps he started using his middle name when he was a teen. And it was just the Diggle he drop after failing to save his father. This is my head canon. 

Edited February 26, 2016 by tarotx

[KirkB]

I don't think we can take anything in this episode as reflecting what is happening or will happen on Arrow. Just because Diggle or Laurel or Quentin lasted until the second uprising, for example, in Conner and Oliver's future timeline doesn't mean things can't change for the 'current' one. This is a possible future.

 

I liked Mick realizing Snart is changing but he isn't, and doesn't want to. While they both enjoy being criminals, Snart seems to have been in it more for the thrills, and of course the money, while Mick is an anarchist arsonist. On some level I think Snart is a bad guy who doesn't really want to be one while Mick never feels as alive as when he is killing and destroying.

 

Sara getting in Rip's face about his unrealized hypocrisy was a sight. Though I have to wonder, what was that nonsense about changing the future arguably being more dangerous than changing the past? When you already made a point of the future being in flux? Anything you change in the future is going to changed back, or in some other direction, by what you go and do in the past. Not the other way around.

 

I really don't care about Kendra/Jax or Kendra/Ray.

 

Oh, and while Sara, Ray and Kendra already knew, do you think Oliver should be at all worried about the fact that now Rip, Stein, Jax and especially Snart and Mick know he is the Green Arrow? Nah.

Edited February 26, 2016 by KirkB

[darkestboy]

Good episode, though Deathstroke Jr was a bit of a charisma free baddie and a little too quickly taken out in the end.

 

I liked the reveal of Connor Hawke actually being Diggle's son, very well done show.

 

Oliver and Sara had some great moments. I also liked Sara calling out Rip a few times during this one.

 

Kendra/Ray/Jax was played for laughs but was an amusing enough side plot moreso for Stein's inclusion of it.

 

Nice bit of conflict between both Cold and Heatwave. Seems like both of them are being changed by their recent adventures and aren't sure where to go from here in a way, 8/10

[Primetimer]

You'll NEVER GUESS who it is if you avoid looking at the guest credits!

Read the story

[rue721]

Kendra and Ray are cute, but I'm glad they did that and then left it.

 

I agree. I actually really enjoyed the love triangle storyline, especially since it was so light-hearted. I also loved that it was more about each of those characters getting to know themselves better and gaining some self-confidence than it was about anything else.

 

Jax and Stein's talk about confidence was sweet. I really liked Kendra complimenting Jax for being able to figure out how the time machine is put together, too. Wrt Kendra not being Ray's type because she's not smart/geeky enough -- Ray told Stein that found her welding skills pretty hot. So I think she's probably his type after all; they've got an interest/talent in mechanical engineering in common, I guess. Anyway, since Kendra and Jax were relegated to the JV team last week, it was nice seeing them both get some respect!

 

Kendra's still boring AF, though -- hopefully I'll warm up to her in time?

 

I guess Mick and Snart are in a very very bad place now. I don't blame Mick but... yea he's the kind of person who tends to self destruct if someone isn't there to rein him in.. which is what Snart does.

 

Idk, I thought Snart was in the wrong in this one. It's BS for him to say that Mick's just the muscle, when Snart's the one who "won" their disagreement by knocking Mick out cold.

 

Also, hitting him like that is disrespectful at best. It's no wonder that Mick's head would be turned by a bunch of men who treat him like a king, when his partner is demeaning/controlling him like that.

 

Mick seems kind of self-destructive, but it's not obvious that Snart actually knows what's better for him or is going to act in Mick's interest. I think Snart might have just lost Mick's trust, and that it's possible Mick will go rogue now.

 

Old Man Oliver looks so goofy.

 

Oh man, you can say that again! I couldn't take him seriously. Everything about him was ridiculous.

 

This was the best episode Arrow's had all season. 

 

 

You're right! And I think that's why I didn't really enjoy this episode. I mean, I stopped watching Arrow itself for the same reasons that I had trouble getting through this episode of Legends.

 

Wondering if Mick will have a revelation that cements his place on the team or if he will be the threat they don't see coming. It feels like it could go either way.

 

That's a great thought. Mick's turning out to be the dark horse of this show. He's a much more interesting character than I would have thought.

 

Maybe John Diggle jr has Connor for his middle name? Perhaps he was named after The Terminator movies and it could be that most people always called him Connor.

 

This would be hilarious! It's my new head cannon. If only because then the Diggle children would be "Sara" and "Connor." LOL.

[Xenith22]

That would be really uplifting if I weren't pretty sure we're in "and we neeeeever saw him again" territory!

I'm not so sure about that this time John. 

 

From an EW interview with Joseph David-Jones (aka the actor who played John/Connor Diggle/Hawke):

EW: "Legends of Tomorrow plans to cycle in different heroes on the team. Is there a possibility we could see Connor Hawke as part of the team at any point?

JDJ: I think there is a strong possibility. I’m talking to the writers about what they plan on doing as far as bringing me back as potentially a series regular or recurring for the show. Nothing has been decided. It’s all so up in the air, but I know they do plan on cycling different heroes onto the ship, so we’ll have to see. I hope this isn’t the last time we’ll see Connor Hawke."

Edited February 26, 2016 by Xenith22

[kirinan]

Too much Arrow stuff. My husband and I were lost through parts of it. Don't know who Connor Hawke is, or whose son the bad guy was, and I don't care. Why can't we just concentrate on the people in THIS show, and not the other two shows?

 

Although I did enjoy the by-play between all the LoT crew. I love that they mix the pairings up in the scenes. It really gives you a much deeper picture of each character, since they're making their reactions unique toward each of the other characters, if that makes sense. Leonard acts differently with Sara than he does with Mick; Mick acts differently with Ray than he does with Rip, and so forth. Just really makes for a very layered ensemble, and therefore a very interesting show that I've come to look forward to each week.

 

And speaking of looking forward, I can't wait to see how things shake up with Mick and Leonard. Someone said above that Mick will either be a threat to the team or cement his place with them, and I find myself liking him so much that I really hope it's the latter. 

Edited February 26, 2016 by kirinan

[FurryFury]

Why can't we just concentrate on the people in THIS show, and not the other two shows?

 

I kinda suspect they weren't thinking about non-Flarrow watchers at all when writing the episode. I think 90%+ of people who watch LoT watch or watched those shows too. But callback to Slade was unexpected - it's been 2 years. I suppose many casual watchers of Arrow have forgotten him and that Sara knows him. At least Diggle's still a regular and has just guested on The Flash, so Connor being his son should be understandable enough.

[johntfs]

I think part of the attention Kendra got could be explained this way:

 

http://www.theonion.com/article/woman-at-farscape-convention-has-dangerously-infla-1169

[kirinan]

I kinda suspect they weren't thinking about non-Flarrow watchers at all when writing the episode. I think 90%+ of people who watch LoT watch or watched those shows too. But callback to Slade was unexpected - it's been 2 years. I suppose many casual watchers of Arrow have forgotten him and that Sara knows him. At least Diggle's still a regular and has just guested on The Flash, so Connor being his son should be understandable enough.

 

Oh, I'm sure you're right that they were figuring most people would know what's up. We do watch The Flash, but note to writers: I don't particularly want those characters to appear in this show, either. An occasional appearance from either show is fine. But whole episodes built around them? Not so much. I care about Snart and Mick and Stein and Sara and Ray and Jax and Rip and Kendra and their adventures (I don't care about Hawkman or Vandal Savage, though, so feel free to leave them out, LOL). I just don't want to have to do homework to watch a show, which I felt like I needed for this episode. 

[FurryFury]

I guess I get that, but some of my favorite episode of TV were crossovers (I'm not talking about Flarrow here, obviously), so I'm a bit biased towards the concept, I suppose.

[blackwing]

I enjoyed this episode, except for the high school "oooh I like Kendra" / "get out man, I looooooovvvve her" stupidity.  Why are these two fighting over her?  She's a complete drip and she was just a barista two months ago!  Why isn't anyone fighting over Sarah?

 

I continue to think that the actress who plays Kendra is terrible, and I think she's followed not far behind for the title of "Worst Actor on the Show" by the guy who plays Jax.  His only mode seems to be "angry and pissed off".  I can't say I am caring for Victor Garber too much in this role either.

 

I liked the glimpse into Star City 2046.  It seemed very "Demolition Man" for Sarah to walk around and see the changes.

 

Question... I thought the Hawk people die and resurrect.  Do they both have to die before they both resurrect?  If not, why isn't Carter resurrecting?  Is it like once every 100 years?  I think I would much prefer for him to resurrect so he can clock both Ray and Jefferson on the head.

[FurryFury]

Why isn't anyone fighting over Sarah?

 

I want to think it's because anybody who Sara could be even potentially interested in isn't a 12-year old boy. But hey, give it time.

 

Do they both have to die before they both resurrect?

 

From media, I figured they do.

[Sakura12]

I enjoyed this episode, except for the high school "oooh I like Kendra" / "get out man, I looooooovvvve her" stupidity.  Why are these two fighting over her?  She's a complete drip and she was just a barista two months ago!  Why isn't anyone fighting over Sarah?

 

I'm thinking that sexy assassin Sara probably scares them a little. In a deleted scene Snart tried hitting on her and she called him out for staring at her ass the whole time. I don't think either Ray or Jax could handle Sara. 

 

Sara's not afraid to take risks in her dating life. I mean how many people would start dating the daughter of the boss, especially when said boss is the head of an international league of assassins? Yes, Ra's turned out to be lame and deserved Sara laughing in his face upon first meeting him. He was supposed to be formidable though. 

 

Question... I thought the Hawk people die and resurrect.  Do they both have to die before they both resurrect?  If not, why isn't Carter resurrecting?  Is it like once every 100 years?  I think I would much prefer for him to resurrect so he can clock both Ray and Jefferson on the head.

 

They both have to die. Carter can't be reborn until Kendra dies. 

[KirkB]

While he was mentioned Vandal Savage never appeared and I think the show was better for it, which is problematic when the lack of your primary villain improves the show for a viewer.

Edited February 26, 2016 by KirkB

[tennisgurl]

Its little Dig! Thank God its not another Queen Spawn. Lord knows we are suffering through enough of that over on Arrow. Also, I get why it would be annoying to have Arrow stuff come onto this show, but I am a big fan of cross overs, and if you have a show set in an established TV universe, you kind of have to acknowledge that sometimes. 

 

The team dynamics are the best part of this show. Even Kendra, by far the most boring character on this show, is growing on me. They are doing a really good job making all the characters stand out, and making all their individual relationships with each other unique and interesting.

 

Old Man Oliver is...well you all saw that.

 

The weakest part of this show? Vandal Savange, by far. What a boring, blah blah blah evil bad guy. On a show that has done a great job making its heroes interesting and complex, Savage is just EVIL. Which can certainly work for a villain, but he is just so boring. And cliche. And not very threatening. The only way to make him have a point on this show is introducing his daughter Scandal. Now THAT would be awesome. Otherwise, please give us a new bad guy soon!  

Edited February 26, 2016 by tennisgurl

[blackwing]

They both have to die. Carter can't be reborn until Kendra dies. 

 

OK, that's what I suspected.  When they get reborn, do they start life again as babies, and then somewhere in adulthood, the hawk spirit possesses them?  They looked exactly the same in Ancient Egypt, so I'm wondering exactly how this works.  If they start life over as babies, somewhere along the line that means each generation's Kendra and Carter has reproduced.  We saw that old professor was the son of that generation's Carter and Kendra.  So then how did we get to the current Carter and Kendra.  Did the professor then have a child that ended up being Kendra?  Time travel makes my head hurt, and maybe the logistics of this reincarnation does as well.

 

Since they looked exactly the same in Ancient Egypt, does this mean that every Carter looks like Carter and every Kendra looks like Kendra?  Carter died in this generation before presumably producing a baby Carter.  So how do they get a Carter in the next generation.  So confused.  It would have been better if they just said the hawk spirits choose someone to be their avatar each generation.

 

If Carter and Kendra are soulmates and destined to be with each other, why doesn't Kendra just kill herself, save us from her terrible acting, and just wait to rise again.  Rip can try to beat Savage again in 25 years.

Edited February 26, 2016 by blackwing