S03.E11: Kindred Spirits

[LeeLeePanda]

 Abbie's leave of absence does confuse me, however. She's an active agent with the Federal government.  How can Danny explain away that Abbie was a no-show, no-call at work for an entire month? It's a small thing, I know, but I get frustrated by dropped plot points that can be explained by a simple line or two of dialogue.

I think she told him that she went on a sabbatical. That was during the scene were they were looking a the Kindreds first victims. As for all of the other FBI stuff, I'm just suspending my disbelief and say that training and promotions work like rapidly aging kids on soap operas.

[ElleBee]

That scene at the end with Ichabod and Abbie was perfection. Just sitting there, playing chess, the two of them zing with so much affection and contentment. Loved Abbie's "Is this Tex-Mex theme a thing?" and Ichabod's "We're a succulent family now!" declaration. So cute. And, yeah, you are.

 

It was pretty damn adorable. And telling that he chose to say "family" instead of "succulent household" or "succulent people" or any other of the many ways he could have expressed it without calling the two of them a family.  

[Frozendiva]

Just caught up this evening.

 

I do agree that Betsy is the new Katrina. Seems to be a need for some female part of the past.

 

Cacti/succulents don't need a lot of care or watering, so maybe they are the best plants for the Mills/Crane household. I know that most houseplants I buy tend to get the same welcome - welcome to my home and prepare to die - as most live less than a month.

 

A late Valentine's show - there is always someone special for everyone.

 

Pandora may need to get the Hidden One drunk or something to get him to give her some power. Or find some slow boat to Hades for him. Hope was in the traditional Pandora's Box story. Maye it'll make an appearance. Maybe Hope is the witnesses. Pandora, sweetie, your loving and now almost fully powered up husband is probably looking at a demise for you. He'd better have more up his sleeve because few people will take him seriously as some overlord and self-appointed god. Especially when he lives in the distant 5000 or so years ago past. He may need to spend some time watching TV and some of the talk shows and current news shows.

 

Ichabod most likely felt Zoe deserved some closure. Although her helping out with his immigration was her doing only. He did not ask for assistance, and no, helping him out does not make him owe you anything or to be your boyfriend. Sleepy Hollow isn't a big town and it's not very often than a charming, thoughtful person takes up residence.

 

Most of my other thoughts have already been said. :)

[vanarnd1]

I didn't enjoy watching this episode as much as the previous two, mainly because there was a lot of Zoe/Betsy Ross but plot and less character interaction. I did find it interesting where it ended up though. I think the conversation between Abbie and Daniel was for him to resolve his feelings toward her and move on, and like others said, Ichabod had a chance to officially resolve and break things off with Zoe,  essentially setting the stage for Ichabbie.  It will be interesting to see how they set it up over the next few weeks especially since they are showing Abbie dealing with the after effects of what happened to her.

 

I don't think this episode did a good job with the other characters though. I agree with others that I thought Joe was inconsiderate trying to pressure Jenny into seeing her father, he seemed to be projecting his feeling of regret onto her, which is not the type of advice you should give something you care about. The Pandora/Zod dynamic hasn't made either character look good IMO but it seems like they are keeping with the same trend of her being weakened to prop him up. And it seems like Sophie's main role is just to be the go between for the supernatural and FBI, but I am not sure how they will use her now that Abbie is back working. I am hoping that next week's episode is smoother now that they have tied up some loose ends.

[possibilities]

I'd like to see some interaction between Abbie and Jenny. It was Abbie's determination to save Jenny that led her to the timeless internment. Jenny doesn't seem to be affected by this at all. Daniel was more upset by the whole thing than Jenny, for godsake. And Daniel is barely a character. One thing I thought anchored the show and somewhat redeemed it during the Bad Days of CFD, was the relationship between the sisters. Let's see the reunited sisters show some emotion towards each other, please. They've been acting like they're strangers.

[FiveByFive]

Danny continues to indicate that both he and Abbie trained together at the same time.  That was what, 2-3 years ago.  NO ONE rises up the ranks of the FBI as fast as Danny apparently has.

 

I got the impression that there's more going on with him than they are letting on which would not only explain how he became in charge of the office so quickly but why Abbie can do pretty much whatever she wants: "they" need her working with them. She is "the asset" and her deeds must be immediately reported back to "someone." He literally had to call someone to tell her she was out of the game as soon as she quit. 

 

Also this would explain why in this episode it was so easy for her to "return" to the FBI without anyone really digging into her whereabouts. Sure he could have hid her paperwork and explained it as a leave and had people cover it up -- although they do get a ridiculous amount of time off the longer they've been there ....  but yeah.  The Witness? Of course SHE can return! 

 

And the government has been involved in the supernatural for years from Ben Franklin to important historical figures like Betsy Ross. So I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't know about Abbie already even beyond the recruitment and placement process where they dig into everyone you associate with. (I've been dug into more than once for people and it's weird. Luckily I'm boring and not ... Sheriff Corbin secret artifact collector or Jenny who once claimed she and her sister saw a demon or their mom who had a lot of supernatural issues.)

 

Finally, now that I think about it, they've been grooming us for a "beyond friends" for Abbie and Ichabod for a while now. Crane's nearly insane desperation to get her back to her picturing Crane while trapped on the other side instead of ... you know ... your sister or any man you've actually dated ... Det. Reynolds romantic ending / Zoe's exit on good terms (since she knows Crane is actually fighting demons and wasn't ignoring her because he was watching TV or something ...) It's their time to shine. 

[jhlipton]

"Abbie Mills deserves better" was a lovely shout out to the fans, though I wasn't totally sold on the context. It was still good to hear.

 

I heard him say it in hashtags! Very nice shout-out to the fans!

 

Basically, I want the showrunners of Sleepy Hollow and Fox Television to double down on the idea that a woman of colour is every bit as beautiful, desireable, and worthy of a romantic fairy-tale storyline with a dreamy British white male hero as every other (white) woman. Let one of the plentiful white male/female led shows out there carry the platonic torch. Because in this world a romance between leads like these is a story not told nearly often enough.

A big fat YES!!!! to this. I think the only show where a black woman is currently having a loving relationship with a white man is on SyFy of all places (The Expanse). Certainly not anywhere near the extent of white women - white men or even white women - black men. About the only truly and locked-in-stone platonic WW-WM relationship is Watson and Holmes on Elementary. *BTW, one of the best WW-WM pairings I've seen is Jake and Amy on Brooklyn 99.  No prolonged "will they - won't they" and a great respectful relationship on both sides.)

 

Speaking of which, she (Pandora), is so not going to settle for being the Hidden One’s powerless wife. He could possibly placate her if he acted as if he cared a smidgen about her weakness, but he’s so self-absorbed that he’ll ignore her complaints until she explodes and destroys him.

Did the Kindred take Zoe because she and Crane were arguing?

Agreed with you and all others on Pandora. I think him deriding "love" may have been the last straw.

The Kindred took Zoe because PLOT!!!!

 

Also, I'm totally picturing Abbie and Crane as regulars for Colonial Times' Early Burr special.

If we needed any more proof of Ich's true love for Abbie, one need look no further than the fact that he was not agreeing to go to Colonial Times, he was suggesting it! Look what he's willing to put up with for his woman!

[Happytobehere]

ITA because this is a HUGE pet peeve of mine, both in real life and on tv. Just because someone is related to you, even if it's a parent, doesn't mean you owe that person jack shit. If you want to guilt trip yourself into having a relationship with a person who has treated you like garbage, feel free to do so, but do not tell anyone else that they should do the same. Sometimes a father is just a sperm donor. Sometimes a relative is just a terrible person who happens to be related to you. There is no reason to torture yourself for the rest of your lives by having a relationship with someone like that. In some cases, it is much healthier to cut that person out of your life or have very minimal contact.

 

Joe's situation is different from Jenny's and Abbie's, so it's not fair for him to equate the two. It seriously makes me rage when I see people push someone else into making contact/having a relationship with some jerk in their family. It's not your decision, dude! If Jenny doesn't want to have coffee with her dad, that is entirely up to her. And for the record, not everyone regrets not having a relationship after the other person dies or wishes that jerk parent had been at their wedding or met their grandchild. Ugh.

 

 

 

I loathe when people try to guilt trip someone into staying together just because they did stuff. If you're going to be the kind of person who does things with ulterior motives (like thinking you will get a relationship out of this), then you kind of deserve to get dumped. Be nice for the sake of being nice, not because you think you're going to get something out of it. In this case, Zoe offered to help. Crane didn't ask for her help, so there is no reason that she should have expected anything besides a thank you note (which YOU KNOW Crane would send promptly). He doesn't owe her a relationship in return, just like the girl at the beginning of the episode didn't owe that guy sex in a car on their first date. Everyone needs to stop acting so damn entitled!

 

Ahem, but now to the good stuff. Crane gently asking Abbie how she's doing and staying up with her while she played chess with herself was very sweet. I also loved that he bought new plants to replace the ones that died while she was gone. I know she doesn't want him to worry, but I think she is going to have to deal with what happened before she can really move on. As the saying goes, serenity now - insanity later!

 

Pandora, RUN, GIRL. Your boyfriend is a selfish jerk.

Yes! Yes! Yes! To all of this.

[Mrs OldManBalls]

Marital spats can be so interesting. I hope she goes scorched earth.

 

I can't see Pandora going any other way. (Team witness won't have to do a damned thing!) 

[wanderingstar]

Also, this is the BSC show I need.  Of all the weird shit Abbie and Ichabod have seen they seemed more flummoxed by the Kindred being in love than anything LOL.

 

That was amusing. 

Edited February 21, 2016 by Gillian Rosh

[cynic]

Pandora taking out HO will be satisfying to see, but I still don't understand what the point of this storyline is. They aren't that interesting and I don't get a real sense of threat and urgency to this plot. It all still feels like a loose framework to hang motw episodes on. Now that we're more than halfway through the season, we should feel like we're hurtling towards something big. As much as I like Sossamon, I hope that we go back to the Apocalypse if we're fortunate enough to get a season 4.

...

A big fat YES!!!! to this. I think the only show where a black woman is currently having a loving relationship with a white man is on SyFy of all places (The Expanse). Certainly not anywhere near the extent of white women - white men or even white women - black men. About the only truly and locked-in-stone platonic WW-WM relationship is Watson and Holmes on Elementary. *BTW, one of the best WW-WM pairings I've seen is Jake and Amy on Brooklyn 99.  No prolonged "will they - won't they" and a great respectful relationship on both sides.)
...

Watson is Asian (Lucy Liu), but yes to your point. White female leads tend to get the romance storylines. Platonic relationships tend to be more the norm when the female is not white, particularly when she's black. 

 

So far, the romance on the Expanse has barely been hinted at. I'm crossing my fingers that it actually happens.

Edited February 21, 2016 by cynic

[Clanstarling]

I enjoyed this episode a lot, but especially when the network placed a chryon for "Lucifer" just as Betsy walked into the shot. I snickered a bit.

The Kindress looked so much like Betsy - and Crane looked like he recognized her - that I kept expecting it to pay off in the end. Maybe, like Abbie's symbol drawing, it will be acknowledged later.

 

 

 

"We're a succulent family now"....Oh, Crane, you and Abbie have ALWAYS been a succulent family, boo!

Nice one.

 

A big fat YES!!!! to this. I think the only show where a black woman is currently having a loving relationship with a white man is on SyFy of all places (The Expanse). Certainly not anywhere near the extent of white women - white men or even white women - black men. About the only truly and locked-in-stone platonic WW-WM relationship is Watson and Holmes on Elementary. *BTW, one of the best WW-WM pairings I've seen is Jake and Amy on Brooklyn 99.  No prolonged "will they - won't they" and a great respectful relationship on both sides.)

I had been one of those against the romantic pairing because it's a TV trope and I am tired of it, but this season has really convinced me that the Ichabod and Abbie relationship should happen.

Wouldn't Watson and Holmes be AW-WM?

[jhlipton]

Watson is Asian (Lucy Liu), but yes to your point. White female leads tend to get the romance storylines. Platonic relationships tend to be more the norm when the female is not white, particularly when she's black.

Wouldn't Watson and Holmes be AW-WM?

 

You're both right... D'oh!    I guess I was so struck by how clear they're making it that Holmes and Watson will never be a OTP that I just inserted it without thinking.  (They work so well as besties who know just how to push each other's buttons, but never be mean about it.)

[DearEvette]

Finally, now that I think about it, they've been grooming us for a "beyond friends" for Abbie and Ichabod for a while now. Crane's nearly insane desperation to get her back to her picturing Crane while trapped on the other side instead of ... you know ... your sister or any man you've actually dated ... Det. Reynolds romantic ending / Zoe's exit on good terms (since she knows Crane is actually fighting demons and wasn't ignoring her because he was watching TV or something ...) It's their time to shine. 

 

Oh most definitely.  Also, I can;t help but thinking that Crane was losing to Abbie is chess because he was 'so distracted' because he was thinking about what Zoe said to him.  I mean, what else could Crane be distracted about at that point?  He's ready for a commitment, just not with her. He liked Zoe and thought he was courting her.  But the minute Abbie was in need he literally forgets about Zoe's existence. At this point the show has made Abbie and Ichabod's bond so deep that she can bring his soul back to his body just by thought and he forgets the existence of everything else except her.   No other woman or man is ever going to be able to compete with that.  All that Queen and Knight business... I see you show.

[Miss Dee]

I had been one of those against the romantic pairing because it's a TV trope and I am tired of it, but this season has really convinced me that the Ichabod and Abbie relationship should happen.

That's very interesting, clanstarling. Would you be willing to share what made you change your mind? I've heard many others say they thought the Ichabbie partnership hasn't been as strong as in the past seasons, but obviously this season had a different effect on others such as yourself.

Edited to give kudos to FivebyFive and DearEverett for their awesome posts!

Edited February 21, 2016 by Miss Dee

[Clanstarling]

That's very interesting, clanstarling. Would you be willing to share what made you change your mind? I've heard many others say they thought the Ichabbie partnership hasn't been as strong as in the past seasons, but obviously this season had a different effect on others such as yourself.

Part of it was simply my own resistance to leads having a romantic relationship - it's ruined many a show I've watched over the years. Then of course there was the obstacle of she who shall not be named - and Ichabod's supposed love that spanned centuries and dimensions was so...flat, that I thought Abby deserved a guy with a lot more to offer than Ichabod seemed to give to the unnamed.

I'm not really sure what changed this season, except that they seemed to grow closer in a more organic way than most shows. Maybe it's because for the first two seasons, they were separate, competent people who weren't the usual "I want to jump his/her bones but I'll keep that secret for now." They became good, caring partners first. The love and attraction they are now beginning to show seems a natural progression of their respect and fondness for each other.

And, well, the hand job. As it were. LOL. That kind of sealed the deal.

Edited February 21, 2016 by clanstarling

[tennisgurl]

Betsy Ross is kind of like that speech in Gone Girl about "Cool Girls". Like, that girl that is written to be the feisty, sexy, and yet approachable women that all men love. Granted, that speech came from a psycho, but from a character stand point, there is something to it. Its like the writers heard everyone complaints about Katrina, and did the exact opposite, but without actually making a likable three dimensional character. Fans thought Katrina was too timid, boring, and easily captured. So they made Betsy brash, a rebel, and a fighter. Unfortunately, she still comes across as boring. Plus, at least it made sense for Katrina to be around. She was Crans wife, and her magic stuff was story relevant. Betsy Ross is just so random. She just pops into all Crans flashbacks, like she was this important person in his life he never mentioned before, and now she just keeps showing up, even though she has no real reason to. I just do not get it.

 

I did like this episode though. The resolution of the Kindred and the Kindress was hilarious in how bugfuck crazy it was. Especially as all the characters just stare at them, all "what the ever loving fuck am I looking at right now?", all topped off with Toms brilliant "that was odd", basically summing the whole story up. Nice.  

[Sparkling Beth]

Really, Danny had no choice but to cover for Abbie, unless he wanted her to be charged and end up in prison for illegally taking weapons from the FBI armory when she was no longer an agent. Like he told her, what she did by resigning then taking all those weapons was illegal. If the truth had been learned she would've had more trouble than just the Kindred when she returned. 

 

Something else I noticed when rewatching the episode, Abbie referenced Cast Away when referring to her time in the Catacombs. Crane was completely confused by  this reference likely because he's not seen the movie, but she called him 'her Wilson' which referred to the volleyball Tom Hanks' character "befriended" while he was stranded on the deserted island. Though it was a serious moment, in that Abbie was trying to deflect Crane from pushing her to open up about her experience in the Catacombs, there 'my Wilson' comment was cute. 

I'm embarrassed to admit this, because I heard the Wilson reference, but it didn't really sink in what she meant until I read your post.  I agree, very cute comment.

[Helena Dax]

Ichabod in a nightgown might be my new sexual orientation.

 

I loved their first scene at the beginning of the episode. There was a moment, when she was mocking him friendly and he just looked down and smiled like saying "aw, c'mon, I'm being serious" and it was very sweet. And intimate, somehow. 

 

Pandora's face when her husband was complaining about the Kindred was epic. You could totally tell she was thinking "omg, shut up, shut up, SHUT UP!!".

Edited February 21, 2016 by Helena Dax

[spaceghostess]

 

I loved their first scene at the beginning of the episode. There was a moment, when she was mocking him friendly and he just looked down and smiled like saying "aw, c'mon, I'm being serious" and it was very sweet. And intimate, somehow.

So much THIS.

 

He said, "Please, Lieutenant", in this very sweet, almost shy way. Watched that a couple of times, and I agree: a lovely, very intimate beat--and one of the most genuine moments I've seen between these two characters or on this show, period.

Edited February 21, 2016 by spaceghostess

[Eliza422]

Zoe made so little impression on me this season that I could not for the life of me figure out who the episode description was talking about! So good thing she's gone, I guess.

I'm also now on the Ichabbie love train...I always thought they had great chemistry, but it's really firing up with Katrina now gone!

Edited February 22, 2016 by Eliza422

[topanga]

Betsy Ross is kind of like that speech in Gone Girl about "Cool Girls". Like, that girl that is written to be the feisty, sexy, and yet approachable women that all men love. Granted, that speech came from a psycho, but from a character stand point, there is something to it. Its like the writers heard everyone complaints about Katrina, and did the exact opposite, but without actually making a likable three dimensional character. Fans thought Katrina was too timid, boring, and easily captured. So they made Betsy brash, a rebel, and a fighter. Unfortunately, she still comes across as boring. Plus, at least it made sense for Katrina to be around. She was Crans wife, and her magic stuff was story relevant. Betsy Ross is just so random. She just pops into all Crans flashbacks, like she was this important person in his life he never mentioned before, and now she just keeps showing up, even though she has no real reason to. I just do not get it.

 

I did like this episode though. The resolution of the Kindred and the Kindress was hilarious in how bugfuck crazy it was. Especially as all the characters just stare at them, all "what the ever loving fuck am I looking at right now?", all topped off with Toms brilliant "that was odd", basically summing the whole story up. Nice.  

Ichabod mentioned--or implied--in Season 1 that he and Betsy Ross had dated. Or did he simply mention that he knew her, and Abbie ran with it and turned it into a relationship? In any event, I never felt any chemistry between the two of them during the flashbacks, and I never got the sense that they had strong romantic feelings for one another. Except for their kiss earlier this season. But that kiss had the same blandness as an Ichabod-Katrina kiss.

 

And was Ichabod throwing shade when he told BR "Your roster of former partners suggests I'm to be a moderating influence to you, not the other way around."? Did he mean that she didn't work well with other soldiers on missions, or did her "roster of former partners" mean that  she was something of a ho? 

 

In terms of Katrina, the writers and showrunners forced her into the role of leading lady in Season 2 even though  1) Abbie, not Katrina was essential to the mission of the two Witnesses and  2) the Crane-Abbie relationship was the heart of the show and was the reason the show was at successful as it was in the first season. Katrina was thrust into the forefront of the show, and Abbie's role was significantly diminished. There was so much fan backlash against Katrina, some of it fair, some of it unfair, that if Katrina stayed on the show, even as a minor character, SH ran the risk of losing more fans than it had already lost. 

 

And her magic wasn't all that impressive. Her spells didn't work--she kept saying "my powers are weak," and she constantly relied on Crane, and even Abbie, to save her, rather than saving herself and being able to save others. I'll never forget that Abbie was the one who had to reach into a barrel of imaginary rats because Katrina was too afraid to do it. Of course it wasn't the actress's fault that a once-powerful witch was reduced to being a damsel-in-distress. 

Edited February 22, 2016 by topanga

[Snookums]

Speaking of which, she (Pandora), is so not going to settle for being the Hidden One’s powerless wife.  He could possibly placate her if he acted as if he cared a smidgen about her weakness, but he’s so self-absorbed that he’ll ignore her complaints until she explodes and destroys him.

 

 

The sooner the better. Pandy Bear, sweetie, boo, bae; you can do better. The fact that you're missing your box more then you ever missed your neglectful asshole of a God-Husband should tell you that. Your box listened to you. It captured monsters for you. It grew magic trees for you, and gowns, and sweet, sweet earrings. It was basically the opposite of that jerk who loves reminding you that without him you're a mute enchained slave. DTMFA.

 

The rest of this ep was pretty damn scattershot but clearly love was in the air! And as much as zzz-Zoe bored me and as passively-aggressively thirsty as she was here, at least when a horrible revenant kidnapped her and tied her up and then met his true lady love and then exploded she got the clue and walked away. Quite nicely, too, and she even helped Crane out with the good advice that he was ready, just not ready for a relationship with her. 

 

Ugh BUSTY IN THERE TOO but at least her scenes were brief and to the point, unlike when she was being aggressively Mary Sued as the Most Feisty-est Female That Ever Did Feist. I agree with the poster who pointed out that she's the manic version of Katrina but they forgot to make her an actual character rather then the Revolutionary War version of the Floor Lamp Female.

 

Joe. Your experience with your dad is nothing like Jenny and Abby's experience with theirs, GOT IT? Considering they were having that convo while stealing a glass harmonica from a museum in the dead of night inches from the Kindress, that was really one of the more realistic elements the show's ever done; The Person Who Really Wants Families To Be Happy Love And Forgiveness, Hooray! Now, I'm sure Dad had a supernaturally ordained reason for banishing himself from their lives, but that doesn't change the fact that Jenny is not cool with trying to reconnect with him, and Joe, while well meaning, needs to respect that. It doesn't matter if they actually do have coffee and a Hallmark moment, that's not going to repair Joe's regrets with his own father. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

BTW, one of the best WW-WM pairings I've seen is Jake and Amy on Brooklyn 99.  No prolonged "will they - won't they" and a great respectful relationship on both sides.)

Amy's last name is Santiago so her character is Hispanic/Latina (as is the actress who plays her). But I agree that they did a good job not drawing it out forever and they have managed to keep them together without dragging down the show, having the show revolve around their relationship. or resorting to breaking them up a million times.

[OakGoblinFly]

I thought this episode was very uneven and for the most part I didn't like it.  It feels like the powers-that-be are trying to shoehorn in so many people and storylines that the entire episode felt disjointed.

 

Did we really need to have the Joe and Jenny conversation right in the middle of the heist?

 

The conversations between Pandora and the Hidden One were useless (expect the one where the Hidden One dismisses Pandora, her feelings, and her powerlessness - because that's going to bite him in the end).

 

I liked Zoe - well that is until the writers changed her completely.

 

I Ilike Abbie's new hair.

 

I found Crane's wig in the flashback distractingly bad.

Edited February 22, 2016 by OakGoblinFly

[FierceAfroChick]

After a long hiatus, I’ve finally caught up with SH and:

 

Jenny and Joe are a boring couple.  This is supposed to be a new romance and you’d think that would come with longing glances, stolen kisses, etc.  But they interact as if they’re…brother and sister.

 

I didn’t love or hate Zoe and was fine with her as Crane’s love interest.  I wish they would’ve introduced one for Abbie (Daniel doesn’t count IMO).  Actually, having Abbie and Crane simultaneously dating nice people only to realize they’re not all that invested would have been a good segue into them discovering each other romantically.

 

I do hate that they killed off Kindred and felt he was wasted in this ep.  The Kindress angle had me rolling my eyes, but I was still mildly entertained.

 

Speaking of wasted characters, The Hidden One is a real disappointment.  Peter Mensah is way too talented and sexy to be so poorly used.

 

So they’re going to use that played out trope of one person making an awful discovery and keeping it from the other?  *sighs*  The first time I’ve ever felt Abbie was being stupid.

 

What’s the point of…see, I can’t even remember her name.  FBI chick.  Why she here?

 

I should probably stop fast forwarding the Betsy Ross scenes, but I don’t think I’m missing anything significant, so… 

 

Pandora is one more emo whine away from shanking her beloved.

Edited February 22, 2016 by FierceAfroChick

[topanga]

 

Jenny and Joe are a boring couple.  This is supposed to be a new romance and you’d think that would come with longing glances, stolen kisses, etc.  But they interact as if they’re…brother and sister.

Both Joe and Jenny's personalities seemed to be muted this season. Maybe that's why them as couple feels bland. I don't know how a writers' room works, but are specific writers responsible for certain characters and their development? Or does the episode's writer construct everything, with the other writers pitching ideas here and there? Because I wonder if any of the writers have said, "Hey, what happened to Jenny being a cunning smart-ass? What happened to Joe's sarcastic sense of humor? These two characters are becoming kind of boring." 

 

 

So they’re going to use that played out trope of one person making an awful discovery and keeping it from the other?  *sighs*  The first time I’ve ever felt Abbie was being stupid.

Which discovery do you mean? If you mean Abbie's realization that she was drawing the symbol with her hand and is therefore still affected by the Catacombs, I think that's Abbie's way of hiding anything that makes her vulnerable or puts her at risk of being judged by other people. Which goes all of the way back to her childhood, when she and Jenny saw Moloch in the woods, but she lied about it when interrogated by the police. And despite everything she and Crane have gone through together, she had a hard telling him she'd been looking for her deadbeat father and that she'd found him--a big deal, but not a huge deal that a person shouldn't easily share with a close friend.

Edited February 22, 2016 by topanga

[CooperTV]

Which discovery do you mean? If you mean Abbie's realization that she was drawing the symbol with her hand and is therefore still affected by the Catacombs, I think that's Abbie's way of hiding anything that makes her vulnerable or puts her at risk of being judged by other people. Which goes all of the way back to her childhood, when she and Jenny saw Moloch in the woods, but she lied about it when interrogated by the police. And despite everything she and Crane have gone through together, she had a hard telling him she'd been looking for her deadbeat father and that she'd found him--a big deal, but not a huge deal that a person shouldn't easily share with a close friend.

 

And yet she told him how Pandora was taunting her with loneliness when Ichabod was hurt and then in another scene, when Pandora came to her in the hospital. This was Abbie at her most vulnerable (at that point), and she shared those things.

[FierceAfroChick]

Which discovery do you mean? If you mean Abbie's realization that she was drawing the symbol with her hand and is therefore still affected by the Catacombs, I think that's Abbie's way of hiding anything that makes her vulnerable or puts her at risk of being judged by other people.

 

And yet she told him how Pandora was taunting her with loneliness when Ichabod was hurt and then in another scene, when Pandora came to her in the hospital. This was Abbie at her most vulnerable (at that point), and she shared those things.

 

Yes, that's the scene I meant.  And I agree, if she could tell him all that other stuff, why not this?  At what point does a Witness decide it's important to tell a fellow Witness about a significant supernatural happening?  When the supernatural happening has turned into supernatural fuckery?  Didn't she go in on Crane a couple of time for hiding things?  She should be smarter about this. 

 

Maybe the writers are using this as romantic angst for Abbie and Crane.  *shrugs*

[CooperTV]

Maybe the writers are using this as romantic angst for Abbie and Crane.  *shrugs*

 

I hope they don't. Because Abbie already confessed Ichabod was her only tether to sanity and normality in the Catacombs. And then repeated it after she returned. She's definitely not ashamed of the fact Ichabod is important to her on various levels. Which makes the hiding supernatural stuff from him even weirder.

[Bruinsfan]

- I like how they used the Kindred as a call back.  Thank you for picking that piece of unresolved plot back up.  Also for Ichabod taking the blame for his resurrection.  I think he called it "thoughtless inelegance."  And LOL, nobody contradicted him.   Recall, Ichabod's need to go haring off to rescue Katrina's sorry ass if the reason they raised him in the first place. 

 

- I dislike Busty Ross and find her useless.  But I do admit that if they had introduced her in the first place in a flashback like this one, I would have been less inclined to dismiss her as much.  Putting aside my disdain for the way she had been deployed, this was an actually good use of her in a flashback.

I loved that Foster's reaction to hearing about them awakening the Kindred mirrored my own back when it first appeared. A monster made out of patched-together corpse bits including the Headless Horseman's head, resurrected by a quote from H.P. Lovecraft's Necronomicon—what could possibly go wrong?

 

I must grudgingly admit that Busty Ross has seemed much more pertinent and useful in her last two flashbacks, although Nikki Reed is still clearly aiming for a Razzie award for her acting. Perhaps the writers realized just how poorly her snarky Mary Sue persona was coming off and decided to write her more seriously rather than as a swashbuckling tongue-in-cheek supporting character from Xena or Jack of All Trades?

 

I find Betsy Ross, Pandora and Zoe distressingly hard to tell apart, so reducing their number by one may be a help.

Pandora's the crazy stalkery one that's a good actress, Zoe's the crazy stalkery one that's a mediocre actress, Busty Ross is the sane stalkery one that can't act her way out of a paper bag. Seriously, is Nikki Reed the daughter or girlfriend of whatever network exec decided that character had to be added as a regular?

Edited February 22, 2016 by Bruinsfan

[Enero]

I hope they don't. Because Abbie already confessed Ichabod was her only tether to sanity and normality in the Catacombs. And then repeated it after she returned. She's definitely not ashamed of the fact Ichabod is important to her on various levels. Which makes the hiding supernatural stuff from him even weirder.

 

There's nothing supernatural to hide, at this point. All she did was draw the symbol that she saw in the catacombs on the table without even realizing she was doing it. There's nothing supernatural about that. She was in the catacombs for 10 months. 10 months of solitude, about to go out of her mind looking at that symbol. I saw her reaction to what she was doing, wiping the symbol from the table, was out of fear and confusion. I'm sure she's thinking her drawing the symbol without thought was due to her time in the catacombs and she fears what that experience will continue to do to her mental state, which is not so farfetched considering her mom's mental state for many years before she died. 

 

Yes, that's the scene I meant.  And I agree, if she could tell him all that other stuff, why not this?  At what point does a Witness decide it's important to tell a fellow Witness about a significant supernatural happening?  When the supernatural happening has turned into supernatural fuckery?  Didn't she go in on Crane a couple of time for hiding things?  She should be smarter about this. 

 

 

Though Pandora's taunting likely hit a nerve with Abbie, I don't think it affected her nearly as much as spending 10 months alone in the Catacombs, with the very real possibility of her being stuck there forever. Pandora's taunting was par for the course with many villains they've faced in their witness duties. So of course she told Crane about it. Her actually being stranded in a barren netherworld having not just her bond with Crane tested, but also her sanity and the reality of her greatest fear was another issue all together. I think she is holding back because her experience affected her on a deeply personal level. And Abbie has never been quick to open up about things that affected her personally (see how she wasn't quick to tell Crane about her experience with Moloch, her estrangement from Jenny and recently her search for her father). 

 

 As stated earlier, at this point there's nothing supernatural to tell. Furthermore, she just realized she was drawing the symbol, literally at the end of the last episode. Thus, I think it's too soon to be questioning her decision not to spill all to Crane.

Edited February 22, 2016 by Enero

[Snookums]

Jenny and Joe are a boring couple.  This is supposed to be a new romance and you’d think that would come with longing glances, stolen kisses, etc.  But they interact as if they’re…brother and sister.

 

 

Ugh, I've been saying this all along. As brother and sister (which is pretty much how they thought of each other until last season) they have GREAT chemistry, like when they pickpocketed Rufus. Talk about a setup for a good, respectful working/friend partnership? They had it. But as a couple they've shot past "passion" *shudder* directly into "Thirtysomething Angst Episode," which doesn't play well on a nutty supernatural show, especially when they're trying to steal a glass harmonica to put a raving, rage-filled angry Frankensteined corpse back to sleep and suddenly I'm watching a Dear Prudence scenario come to life.

[topanga]

Ugh, I've been saying this all along. As brother and sister (which is pretty much how they thought of each other until last season) they have GREAT chemistry, like when they pickpocketed Rufus. Talk about a setup for a good, respectful working/friend partnership? They had it. But as a couple they've shot past "passion" *shudder* directly into "Thirtysomething Angst Episode," which doesn't play well on a nutty supernatural show, especially when they're trying to steal a glass harmonica to put a raving, rage-filled angry Frankensteined corpse back to sleep and suddenly I'm watching a Dear Prudence scenario come to life.

Hey! What's wrong with thirtysomething angst???

 

But I totally agree with you. They work well together, and their first kiss came during a moment of crisis. But they just don't seem hot for one another. I wish one of them would be willing to say that their kiss happened during a high-stress time, and they'd be better off just staying friends. 

[Julia]

Pandora's the crazy stalkery one that's a good actress, Zoe's the crazy stalkery one that's a mediocre actress, Busty Ross is the sane stalkery one that can't act her way out of a paper bag. Seriously, is Nikki Reed the daughter or girlfriend of whatever network exec decided that character had to be added as a regular?

Both Maya Kazan and Nikki Reed have family connections in the industry. I suspect Nikki Reed's being cast had more to do with the fact that she was in a series of blockbuster tween movies (she was badly miscast in those too) and her husband was working just down the road. She was probably the most prominent actress they could afford who was willing to film in NC.

I don't mind Shannyn Sossamon. I think the problem with her character, other than the whole being an idiot about her husband thing, is that they created all these characters (and Jenny/Joe as an actual thing, and Daniel, and Sophie) as a handful of spaghetti to throw at the wall and see what sticks. I think her character works, she just gets lost in the crowd.

[theatremouse]

And was Ichabod throwing shade when he told BR "Your roster of former partners suggests I'm to be a moderating influence to you, not the other way around."? Did he mean that she didn't work well with other soldiers on missions, or did her "roster of former partners" mean that  she was something of a ho?

I can't be sure what the writer meant, but I interpreted that remark to imply she was a bit of a wild card and/or reckless, and he the opposite, and their pairing was intended to get her to be a little more "according to plan". Didn't think it was meant to imply anything sexual.

I enjoyed but was also annoyed by the drawing in blood moment. On the one hand, with this show I'm so used to them doing these plots that seem big in the moment, but then they resolve it all easily and sort of pretend it never happened and once it's done it's done. So to see her drawing the symbol and then spook herself with it was quite satisfying to me because, what, gee golly you really mean it, there are going to be consequences? So from that perspective, yay. On the other hand, the lighting of the scene and the darkness of the table and the blood meant if they didn't do the flashy flashbacky thing to show the symbol, I would have had absolutely no idea what she drew. Not because it's been too long since the episode in which it was shown to associate the two, but because I just plain couldn't see it. Normally I'd be annoyed by that flashback, because it was so recent, if it weren't recognizable they're not doing their jobs. But in this case they absolutely had to flash to it for it to be visible at all.

Edited February 23, 2016 by theatremouse

[cassandle]

He said, "Please, Lieutenant", in this very sweet, almost shy way. Watched that a couple of times, and I agree: a lovely, very intimate beat--and one of the most genuine moments I've seen between these two characters or on this show, period.

 

This is why I will be crushed if the show gets canceled.  I'm not a shipper--I don't really care if they get together or not--but the two actors are fantastic and I want to see them acting opposite each other forever regardless of the plot.  I seriously doubt I would have stuck it out through season 2 if it weren't for moments like this.

 

 

There's nothing supernatural to hide, at this point. All she did was draw the symbol that she saw in the catacombs on the table without even realizing she was doing it. There's nothing supernatural about that. She was in the catacombs for 10 months. 10 months of solitude, about to go out of her mind looking at that symbol. I saw her reaction to what she was doing, wiping the symbol from the table, was out of fear and confusion. I'm sure she's thinking her drawing the symbol without thought was due to her time in the catacombs and she fears what that experience will continue to do to her mental state, which is not so farfetched considering her mom's mental state for many years before she died. 

 

I don't remember this being mentioned yet but I just rewatched the beginning (because I wanted to see Crane in a nightgown--don't judge me!) and I'd swear Abbie is making the same motion with her finger on the table (minus the blood) as she looks at the chessboard.  If that's the case, it's a really nice, subtle, bit of direction.

[phoenics]

I hope they don't. Because Abbie already confessed Ichabod was her only tether to sanity and normality in the Catacombs. And then repeated it after she returned. She's definitely not ashamed of the fact Ichabod is important to her on various levels. Which makes the hiding supernatural stuff from him even weirder.

 

But doodling a weird symbol you remember from a horrific ordeal isn't supernatural.  Abbie probably just thinks it's all in her mind and that she's just struggling to return to normalcy.  We don't even know right now what her doodling that symbol means - we think there will be some supernatural thing with it, but we don't know.  Abbie has probably connected it to her nearly hyperventilating in the woods - she probably thinks it's some kind of PTSD - not something supernatural.

 

That's why it makes sense that she's not talking about it.  She doesn't think it means anything other than she's still trying to get over what happened.  I don't think she's connected it to it being anything more than some kind of post traumatic stress, which Abbie WOULD decide to keep to herself because she's afraid it makes her vulnerable and possibly not good for the team.

 

I love this storyline because I feel like maybe they are going to shatter the whole strong black woman trope - and that would be so awesome.

 

ETA:  I should have kept reading to see Enero's posts... GMTA?  Although I like your explanation even better!

This is why I will be crushed if the show gets canceled.  I'm not a shipper--I don't really care if they get together or not--but the two actors are fantastic and I want to see them acting opposite each other forever regardless of the plot.  I seriously doubt I would have stuck it out through season 2 if it weren't for moments like this.

 

 

 

I don't remember this being mentioned yet but I just rewatched the beginning (because I wanted to see Crane in a nightgown--don't judge me!) and I'd swear Abbie is making the same motion with her finger on the table (minus the blood) as she looks at the chessboard.  If that's the case, it's a really nice, subtle, bit of direction.

 

She was.

Edited February 23, 2016 by phoenics

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

To Love, In All Its Twisted Sleepy Hollow Glory
It's the K-k-k-kindred, c-c-c-coming to k-k-k-kill them! Pandora's summoning spell doesn't go as planned, among other things.

[topanga]

But doodling a weird symbol you remember from a horrific ordeal isn't supernatural.  Abbie probably just thinks it's all in her mind and that she's just struggling to return to normalcy.  We don't even know right now what her doodling that symbol means - we think there will be some supernatural thing with it, but we don't know.  Abbie has probably connected it to her nearly hyperventilating in the woods - she probably thinks it's some kind of PTSD - not something supernatural.

 

That's why it makes sense that she's not talking about it.  She doesn't think it means anything other than she's still trying to get over what happened.  I don't think she's connected it to it being anything more than some kind of post traumatic stress, which Abbie WOULD decide to keep to herself because she's afraid it makes her vulnerable and possibly not good for the team.

 

I love this storyline because I feel like maybe they are going to shatter the whole strong black woman trope - and that would be so awesome.

Exactly. But now that I've been ruminating on this story arc and Abbie's state of mind for five long days, I wonder if Abbie feels there's anyone who would be able to handle what she's going through. Maybe Sheriff Corbin, if he were still alive. But even he never shared with Abbie everything he'd been doing over the years with Jenny and investigating the supernatural. So their relationship was never as open and honest as it could've been.

 

And then there's Crane. He's certainly become more attentive to other people's needs this season, but Abbie can't have forgotten him as the whiny, selfish man-child from last season who consistently chose his witch-wife over his fellow Witness. The Witness with whom he supposedly has this eternal bond. Oh, and what about the liar who betrayed her and used a map he said he never would in order to save said witch-wife? I know he ultimately killed Katrina to save Abbie, but then he followed that up by running away and leaving his fellow Witness without any contact for 8 months.

 

Maybe Abbie's feeling some of that. Yes, Crane came to Never-Ending Storyland to try to save her, but he's also the person who has consistently thrown her opinions and feelings by the wayside whenever he felt his needs were more important. And he abandoned her for 8 months when he felt sad. Maybe Abbie doesn't trust Crane emotionally, and I'd have to agree that he hasn't done much to earn her emotional trust. 

[DeLurker]

^^^

Replying in Relationship thread.

[TresGatos]

Did anyone else hope the Kindred's love would turn out to be Fran Drescher?

[jhlipton]

Did anyone else hope the Kindred's love would turn out to be Fran Drescher?

 

Or Frau Blucher! [Horses neigh in horror]

[theatremouse]

Did anyone else hope the Kindred's love would turn out to be Fran Drescher?

I don't get it but I feel like I should? I know I'm probably ruining it by asking, but fill me in?

[Miss Dee]

*groan* Why are they forgetting to unlock the episode threads?? We need to talk about this!!

[OnceSane]

*groan* Why are they forgetting to unlock the episode threads?? We need to talk about this!!

The episode threads automatically unlock after the show airs. Unfortunately, I forgot that it now airs an hour earlier so it opened late.

[Miss Dee]

No worries OnceSane; it's all good. Thank you though for taking the trouble to explain; much appreciated.

[mndpacer04]

Rewatching Kindred Spirits now. If Ichibod and Abbie had a daughter, she could look like Sophia...That is apparent in the scene where the camera keeps cutting between Ichibod, Abbie and Sophia while they are discussing the kindred. I don't think it is a coincidence that she is biracial with the Mills family connection. Ichibod and Abbie may have sent her back in time (probably to save her life) when she was a baby. If this happened, Sophia would not remember it and Abbie and Ichibod would not be aware of it because it occurs in the future. Now that Jessica Camacho is a series regular, I believe she is going to play a greater role in the second 1/2 of the season.

Edited March 3, 2016 by mndpacer04

[Miss Dee]

You know, I was half wondering the same thing??

[HalcyonDays]

If Ichabod and Abbie had a daughter, she could look like Sophia...

 

You know, I was half wondering the same thing??

 

Check out this screen shot from season 1's Sanctuary. Note the left side, and two particular (but same) last names. Could be coincidence, could be not...

 

Personally, would not want that storyline, but who knows...sometimes shows name characters after crew members or writers or close family members for that little connection and shoutout.