S06.E05: Refugees

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Frank helps Erica as Debbie ups her game. Lip tries to protect Helene.

 

Promo:

 

Clips:

 

 

[Christina]

I have absolutely no interest in seeing this episode. I'll watch it, but I've already burned out on Shameless this season. I miss Justified. 

[Tatum]

I'm interested to see what Amanda did to exact her revenge on Lip. I'm guessing she outed Helene for sleeping with a student, but Helene wasn't really being that discreet.

[WhosThatGirl]

Yeah, I think this episode just kind of sealed it. I'm..done. I don't like anything that's happened at all this season and nor do I care anymore. I mean, I'll still watch but I'm done caring about anything on the show anymore. Which is a shame, this show really used to pull me in and I found it enjoyable and now I don't like any of the characters or any of the plots.  Nothing even made me laugh tonight at all. 

 

And next week, kind of looks more the same. Except for maybe Gus's return. Although for some reason, they are making him into a jerk too; probably a side effect that happens when a character gets to be on this show for more than 3 episodes. Very few characters get to escape this curse. 

[Primetimer]

The Gallaghers get evicted, and Fiona seems to be the only one interested in keeping them together. Unlikely bright spots? Vee. And some Myanmarian child soldiers.

Read the story

[Dee]

Veronica's terminator take-down of Carl's wigger persona (REVERSE GEORGE ZIMMERMAN) was a thing of beauty. Shanola Hampton remains a gem.

 

Speaking of gems, Svetlana's effortless rebuke of Fiona's bullshit slut shaming & subsequent economics lesson was also a thing of beauty. Go on & get your Quizno's girl!

 

I'll always be partial to Ian & Mickey, but I'm very interested in seeing how Caleb & Ian pan out. Caleb's maturity & a career as a firefighter seem like they'll provide the purpose & structure Ian so desperately craves.

 

Lip's severe mommy issues (thanks Monica!) are tiring. And in six seasons, he's never learned to appreciate what, and who, he has before it bites him on the ass. Every time. Like clockwork.

 

I was never enthused about Sean & Fiona's relationship (because as Veronica & Frank have told her, she always picks pussies) until tonight. Him refusing to accept her excuses for Carl & Nick's criminal behavior was great.

 

That said, I hope Nick doesn't go postal over losing his bike. He's made significant progress since showing up in the premiere, it would be a shame to see him end up back in jail.

 

After lamenting about Shameless losing its rich supporting cast last week, it was nice to see Carol & Tony back. Even if Tony being gay was sort of out of left field.

 

Usually I find Frank subplots boring as hell, despite William H. Macy's tremendous talent, but something about cancer stricken female characters brings out the best in him. This is the most I've enjoyed Frank, as a character, since his short arc with Bianca last season.

 

I saw Cancer Mom hitting on Debbie as soon as she confided in Frank she was into women. It'll be interesting to see if Debs is as hetero-flexible as dear old Dad. lol

 

Chuckie can go. At any time.

Edited February 9, 2016 by Dee

[infomofo]

How uncool was Caleb getting his junk grabbed after a million beers at the ballgame and being like "no- we have to have dinner first or something". That just seemed like it came from a different universe.

I did like that Fiona made Tony gay.

[chick binewski]

I don't know because this is the first "live" episode of Shameless I've ever seen. I've been power-watching 5+ seasons for a few weeks just b/c I liked the kids and wanted to see where the story would take them. As a Filliam F. Muffman fan I do not understand William H. Macy's role or his desire to play it AT ALL. Unless he's into all the dry humping action with 20 y.o. actresses that Showtime seems to include with every male performer's contract but whatever. Seriously, zero nuances around his complete dislikability. Vee wins the Shameless Super Bowl Edition. Gay Tommy receives Most Improved Player. Sasha Alexander wins...I'm not exactly sure what...letting Angie Harmon & the R&I showrunners know she's totes over the last season of their show??

 

Somebody just tell me Noel Fisher is coming back! Kid broke my heart.

[madhacker]

oh yeah that was a very depressing episode but hopefully this is the beginning towards things getting a bit better. The only thing that was wierd for me was watching Debbie trying to seduce Tyler because I kept expecting him to say "I love you Jason Stackhouse!!". Yep that was the same actor who played Steve Newlin on True Blood.

 

I just want one tiny thing before the season ends: Ian has a hot hook up with Tony just to watch Fiona's reaction when she finds out(and also for the eye candy, ok so I'm shallow, at least I admit it. Tony and Ian would be awesome to watch)

[AlliMo]

Svetlana continues to be both my favorite character on this show, and the smartest. Though, Hail to Queen Vee this episode.

 

I have zero sympathy for the professor. She knew better, and whether or  not Lip *feels* like he was taken advantage of, he was. It's not like they were even all that careful about being found out. Same goes for her husband. I don't care what their arrangement was, he's a middle aged man who is fully aware of just how predatory his wife's relationship with a student is. I just hope Lip doesn't end up paying for it by it endangering his education.

 

Ian being flabbergasted at the firefighter wanting an actual date was typically Gallagher. None of them have ever seen a functional adult relationship, so they have no idea what it looks like.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I know, right? When Lip made a comment to Ian about how gay guys just get straight to fucking, I was like oh, right, because you really took your time getting to know your professor before you had sex in her office. Or before you started hooking up with your roommate's annoying girlfriend! For the record, I am not condoning what Amanda did, but Lip is an IDIOT for leaving his ex alone in his room with access to all of his stuff.

 

Watching Frank continue to pimp Debbie out is so gross. I hope he doesn't end up falling in love with Erica because he thinks she is his debaucherous soul mate. He already convinced two cancer patients to run off and do drugs with him so let's not make her the third.

 

I know I am going to hell for this, but I laughed when Chuckie showed up at the house because no one told him that they had been evicted.

 

I love Svetlana and I love that she refused to let Fiona and the kids stay with her. Say what you will about Svetlana, but she gets shit done and she is not going to give the Gallaghers a handout when there are other options available. I'm not saying Fiona needs to prostitute herself, but I can see why Svetlana feels it's not her responsibility to help her. I can't wait to see Svetlana get her own Quizno's!

 

So wait, Fiona pawned Gus's grandmother's ring but now she won't spend the money she got for it so that she can go get it back? Then what was the point of pawing it in the first place? Gah. And if she's planning to get it back, then GO GET IT NOW before someone buys it.

 

I really hope Nick doesn't lose his shit. I know it seems unlikely, but I want him to be happy and stay out of trouble. Carl is out of control (high five to V for her Zimmerman speech), but the one really redeeming factor he has going for him right now is that he truly seems to care about Nick.

 

I really hope that Carl doesn't turn all the refugee kids from Myanmar into his little army. That poor little girl. Disguising herself as a boy was probably the safest thing for her. When she started counting how many people she's killed, I think Carl finally realized that he's not as hard as he thinks he is.

Edited February 8, 2016 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Pallida]

 

So wait, Fiona pawned Gus's grandmother's ring but now she won't spend the money she got for it so that she can go get it back? Then what was the point of pawing it in the first place? Gah. And if she's planning to get it back, then GO GET IT NOW before someone buys it.

 

I'm a little confused on the show's timeline, but I'm assuming the ring is still under the pawn loan period where it can't be sold.

[stagmania]

I know this show has truly lost me, because none of the stuff with Fiona and the house affected me at all. All of her blabbering about them being a family and needing to stay together just rings so hollow to me in light of her behavior over the last couple seasons. Last year she was ready to go on tour with Gus and leave them all with psycho Sammi as if it was nothing, but now I'm supposed to believe she's all torn up about them not living together anymore? Speaking of, the abortion is postponed yet again, and Gus is back next week. I smell baby daddy drama on the horizon.

 

Everything with Lip this episode just made me want to rip my hair out. I don't buy him being this stupid or naive about his relationship with Helene.

 

I also hate what they're doing with Ian, and find him to be nearly unrecognizable. This story isn't actually about him seeking out a new career or a sense of purpose-apparently he's nothing but a shallow slut now, and maybe as a side benefit his new boyfriend (who he has less than zero chemistry with btw) will help him get a job. Ian used to be responsible and loyal and had a great work ethic, but I see no trace of that kid anymore. He also used to be in a serious relationship, which the show is working overtime to make us all forget. Mickey who?

 

I can't even talk about what's become of Carl and Debbie. I think the Gallaghers I used to love are gone for good.

[Isazouzi]

I know I am going to hell for this, but I laughed when Chuckie showed up at the house because no one told him that they had been evicted.

 

Me too, except that for the life of me, I couldn't remember his name. Shows how important to the story he is...

 

 

    I really hope Nick doesn't lose his shit. I know it seems unlikely, but I want him to be happy and stay out of trouble. Carl is out of control (high five to V for her Zimmerman speech), but the one really redeeming factor he has going for him right now is that he truly seems to care about Nick.

I love the irony of him having his bike stolen in a rich neighborhood! But you're right, I hope he doesn't go postal. I like him and he makes Carl interesting. But I'm scared the girl Carl's in love with actually has a crush on Nick and is going to divide them. It could turn ugly.

 

 

I really hope that Carl doesn't turn all the refugee kids from Myanmar into his little army. That poor little girl. Disguising herself as a boy was probably the safest thing for her. When she started counting how many people she's killed, I think Carl finally realized that he's not as hard as he thinks he is.

 

I couldn't laugh at that story, it's too tragic. V made me cry when she was being so nice to that little girl. I thought too that Carl finally realized how hard these children had it, and I hope that's what it was, and not that he's going to use them or outdo them.

[ahpny]

For the record, I am not condoning what Amanda did, but Lip is an IDIOT for leaving his ex alone in his room with access to all of his stuff.

 

Exactly, but the problem is Lip is not an idiot. The show has broadcast what a genius he is for years. And he's not merely book-smart, he's street smart and also knows how crazy his ex-whatever was and still is. His hesitation to leave her there alone, and his weak efforts to keep her out, signaled he knew this would end badly. This is not in character for Lip (or any of them) at all. Part of the trope of this show is that Gallaghers trust no one, ever. If there were ever a reason to distrust someone, it was Lip to be wary of Amanda. It made no sense to leave her in his room alone. This was inconsistent, yet predictable, and lazy. A lame trifecta to pull off, but they managed.

[Empress1]

Vee absolutely was the standout this episode. From her "I'm sure [God] will figure something out, Him being all-powerful and shit" to "No 'I don't speak English' bullshit" to her calling out Carl, to her softening when she realized one of the kids was a girl, she was killing it. I also liked that Kev and Vee immediately came to the Gallagher's aid when they got evicted.

 

How, exactly, did Carl think he was going to rent a place? He's what, 14? Although I guess his friend is over 18.

 

I don't feel anything for Lip, Helene, or Amanda. I mean, Amanda is crazy and pathetic, but we already knew that. Helene slept with a student in his dorm room, so it's not like she was being discreet. And Lip is going to get his feelings hurt when he announces that they're in love. I don't think he'd face any disciplinary consequences, and I REALLY hope he doesn't try to fall on his sword for her. I like the mentorship he and the other professor are developing, although them getting drunk together isn't exactly healthy. He comes by his mommy issues honestly, but I'm not interested in seeing them.

 

Also, "I'm in a relationship?" Lip, you're fucking your married professor, who, it appears, has every intention of remaining married. This isn't a relationship.

 

Are we headed for an "And baby makes five" situation with Sean, his son, Liam, and Fiona? Because, no thanks.

[iMonrey]

 

I am not condoning what Amanda did

 

I am. Helene deserves to be fired and never teach again. She's an idiot for sleeping with students, and an even bigger idiot for doing it right in their dorm rooms. I don't care what kind of "arrangement" she has with her husband, she's crossing a line when it comes to her job.

 

Also, Amanda is really the best thing that ever happened to Lip. She should have known better than to expect a long-term relationship with him but still, he treated her like crap after she basically trained him how to manage his time and kept him from losing his scholarship. He'd have been out on his ass after year one if it hadn't been for her. And let's not forget the ten grand they scammed off her father.

 

Tony is gay? Talk about out of the blue. We haven't even seen Tony in years and the last time we did he was married to some Laotian woman. His reappearance was so damn random, I hope there's more to it than just that. I'd be willing to bet he was just joking about Fiona and just wanted to play on the softball team or something.

[esco1822]

I LOL'd both when Mrs. Wexler starting singing Come to My Window and when Chuckie showed up at the house. This show is ridiculous and I love it.

[Tatum]

I am. Helene deserves to be fired and never teach again. She's an idiot for sleeping with students, and an even bigger idiot for doing it right in their dorm rooms. I don't care what kind of "arrangement" she has with her husband, she's crossing a line when it comes to her job.

 

Also, Amanda is really the best thing that ever happened to Lip. She should have known better than to expect a long-term relationship with him but still, he treated her like crap after she basically trained him how to manage his time and kept him from losing his scholarship. He'd have been out on his ass after year one if it hadn't been for her. And let's not forget the ten grand they scammed off her father.

 

 

Amanda did do a lot for him, and Lip should be grateful, but really, the crux of the matter is that he was never interested in her romantically. Everything he did with her- going as her escort to her sorority thing, inviting her parents to his house- those were all favors she asked him to do in exchange for helping him. He's not a bad guy for not reciprocating her feelings or preferring someone else. Lip is a jerk in general, but in this case, the ONLY thing he did that was rude was the episode where he ditched her in his room and she sat and waited for him for hours (then again, she showed up uninvited and confrontational). Otherwise it's just a case of her falling for a guy that does not like her that way.

[Empress1]

Amanda did do a lot for him, and Lip should be grateful, but really, the crux of the matter is that he was never interested in her romantically. Everything he did with her- going as her escort to her sorority thing, inviting her parents to his house- those were all favors she asked him to do in exchange for helping him. He's not a bad guy for not reciprocating her feelings or preferring someone else. Lip is a jerk in general, but in this case, the ONLY thing he did that was rude was the episode where he ditched her in his room and she sat and waited for him for hours (then again, she showed up uninvited and confrontational). Otherwise it's just a case of her falling for a guy that does not like her that way.

I agree. Like he said, he never made any promises to her. The "Yes you did, with your smile" or whatever the fuck, that's in her imagination. And didn't SHE initially not want to be exclusive? It hurts to fall for someone who doesn't like you as much as you like them - everyone has been there, and it sucks. But I find her reaction way out of proportion to the situation. (That's not to say I agree with Helene banging her students; I don't. I'd guess the rules on that are pretty clear and she'll deserve whatever punishment is coming to her. The university doesn't and shouldn't care that her husband is cool with it; her marriage isn't their problem. It's inappropriate, unprofessional behavior.) If Amanda sticks with therapy and gets to a better emotional place, she's going to regret this.

[stagmania]

Amanda's reaction to Lip and Helene is frankly completely out of character for who she was right up until the end of season 5. But like all Gallagher love interests, she must be turned into the villain on her way out.

[Tatum]

Not only did he never make any promises to her- he never instigated anything with her! She gave him a surprise BJ. She showed up in his room with her day planner and plotted his daily schedule to make him more efficient. She insisted on babysitting Liam while he went to class. She initiated sex with him while having a relationship with another student (think it was a possessive lesbian, if I remember right). She approached him about scamming her dad out of money. The only time he ever asked her for anything was when he would ask to borrow her car. And then he offered to help her out in some way to thank her, which involved him inviting her parents to his house and then being her date for her sorority thing. I don't see how in any way he misled her or took advantage of her.

 

I think Lip is kind of a dick usually, but I really don't see how wronged Amanda. The fact is, she's hurt and rejected, she embarrassed herself confronting him, and she wants revenge on him for preferring Helene over her.

 

I do agree that Helene deserves what disciplinary action she receives. Not only did she break the rules, she was pretty blatant about breaking them.

[Noirprncess]

I laughed at them forgetting Chuckie too.

Helene is finally getting in trouble. She's flaunted that relationship for a very long time without anyone noticing.

[Empress1]

I would bet that Lip's not the first student Helene has slept with, just the one that got her caught.

[Adeejay]

So let me see if I understand this.  The same day the Gallaghers get evicted, their good friends and neighbors, Vee and Kev just happen to take in some refugees, so they all had to find other lodgings?!  How convenient - story line wise.  I can't for the life of me understand how this show is considered a "comedy", when it's one of the darkest shows on television.  

[Chaos Theory]

So let me see if I understand this. The same day the Gallaghers get evicted, their good friends and neighbors, Vee and Kev just happen to take in some refugees, so they all had to find other lodgings?! How convenient - story line wise. I can't for the life of me understand how this show is considered a "comedy", when it's one of the darkest shows on television.

Because it's not. It has never been a pure comedy. You can debate it being a dramedy but it hasn't even really been that in awhile. The genre categories have become obsolete because shows rarely if ever fit into just one. The only use they have anymore is to determine what awards they are eligible for.

[Pallida]

I'll be curious to see what the show claims to be the university policy on consensual relationships. They do vary widely. I don't think Lip is currently taking any classes under Helene, so if the relationship had waited until he was no longer her student, there are many places that wouldn't care.

[CarolMK]

Maybe I'm the only one, but I genuinely felt sorry for Fiona when they were evicted from their house. I work at a foreclosure firm and I see how it affects people who lose their homes, frequently because of circumstances beyond their control like job loss or illness. It really sucks. Also, it might be a small thing, but I kind of enjoyed seeing Debbie call Frank "Dad" and I could see that he did too. Maybe this cancer conceirge job is one of the most positive things that's happened to him.

 

I hope that Lip and the professor storyline is now over. She was an idiot and deserves to lose her job. I enjoyed seeing Ian with a new romantic interest and also a possible new career path. A firefighter would be a perfect job for him and he'd feel much better about himself than he has in months. 

 

Vee was great, along with Kevin. Now I'm wondering if this will be the last we see of Chuckie.

[Gulftastic]

I really enjoyed the episode. Everyone had stuff to do, and most of them interested me. I really liked Fiona getting a happy ending (of sorts) for a change. The pillow fight scene was lovely. It'll never last, of course....

[BonnieD]

I'm enjoying this show more than I probably should given how awful every single person in it is. I, too, couldn't help snorting at poor, neglected Chuckie left completely out of the loop.

One moment in particular really annoyed me. Fiona's comment to Lip about "why do these things happen to us?" She's incapable of regarding herself as anything other than a victim. If she'd kept the very nice job at the cup company and the very sweet BF she had there--or even the job minus the boyfriend if she didn't truly love hiim--she'd be in a much better financial place now. All the fallout from her cheating then becoming a druggie stemmed from her inability not to chase after drama. The white collar world was too boring for her. If she'd been smart back then, they could have already moved to a better house by now.

Most of Gallaghers' "bad luck" stems fromdumb decision making. And I know they never had adult role models to teach them any better but still...

[whiporee]

 

  One moment in particular really annoyed me. Fiona's comment to Lip about "why do these things happen to us?" She's incapable of regarding herself as anything other than a victim. If she'd kept the very nice job at the cup company and the very sweet BF she had there--or even the job minus the boyfriend if she didn't truly love hiim--she'd be in a much better financial place now. All the fallout from her cheating then becoming a druggie stemmed from her inability not to chase after drama. The white collar world was too boring for her. If she'd been smart back then, they could have already moved to a better house by now.

 

That would be true, except it's not what happened.

 

Mike's brother came after Fiona aggressively. She drunkenly succumbed. Not great, but not unexpected. He then came after her again after she went to his place to break things off and tell him not to tell Mike. She succumbed again -- she did say no but didn't leave immediately --  not great but not unexpected. (I think it's also important to remember that Mike set Fiona up with his brother, who he presumably understood, to be alone together)

 

Then the brother tells Mike's family in an internal power struggle. Mike never talked to her, never got her side, never even asked her a question. Didn't know any circumstances, just supposed she was a slut and and another of his brother's conquests. She went back to work and was willing to deal with the looks and consequences of her actions. Mike let her keep her job, just told her he needed space. He then brought the cocaine to her place, and after she threw him out, he left it on the table. Liam found it, took some, almost died and Fiona went to jail. I don't think she quit; I think she got fired when she became incarcerated. Mike, being nice, put up her bail and she violate it, but I'm pretty sure she didn't quit. 

 

There's merit to the idea that the Gallaghers do a lot to bring things on themselves. but I actually think she's got a point. In terms of the house, for example, she made a deal with her landlord and paid her rent; the house was foreclosed out from under her without her having any real chance to stop it. Lip may have taken a picture, but he's not the one who tweeted it and one should have a reasonable expectation of privacy on one own's phone. Ian didn't ask to be bi-polar. Liam didn't ask for any of it. And even in the scenario you mentioned, Fiona didn't ask to be used as a pawn between two brothers, and she certainly wouldn't expect (as none of us would, really) be be held up as a trophy in a fraternal fight. She made a bad decision, but she tried to correct it, and the consequences were well beyond any reasonable expectation. 

 

Likewise, Debbie didn't ask to have Frank for a father and Monica for a mother. Neither did Carl. They both had made their own beds at this point, but can you really blame them? Not from our vantage point, but from theirs. Carl has seen his family consistently and demonstrably in need of money. he found a way to make some. It is beyond the pale of what many of us would do, but many -- MANY -- people in Carl's situation have done much the same. And Debbie -- who's seen plenty of teenage moms and has always looked for some sort of unqualified love (remember how she clinger to Frank as the Turtle, or how she helped break out Monica) wants something that will love her unconditionally. And she's been playing mom since she was younger (and does a pretty good job of it, looking at the way she handed the kids she's nannying).  We know it's a stupid decision, but it's not unrealistic of unreasonable that Debbie see it differently. None of us look at our lives that way (and certainly no kids do). My brother and I joke that I saw my father as a hero, and my brother saw him as a cautionary tale. I think we could say the same for the Gallaghers; it's unfair to look at the characters through lenses that aren't there own, or to attach middle-class morality (thank you Alfred P. Doolittle) to their situation. 

 

They could make different decisions, sure. But I think it's unfair to say their circumstances are their own creation. Like Lip said, most libertarians are born on third base and think they hit a triple, and when analyzing the Gallaghers, I think it's important to keep in mind where they came from and how they think as a result, not just how we'd do it. 

Edited February 9, 2016 by whiporee

[WaltersHair]

Chuckie coming home to a padlocked house was the only genuine laugh I had this week.

 

And I still fail to understand why Fiona won't take Carl's money. If she hadn't hocked Gus' ring that was hidden in grandma's nether regions, then I'd understand. Talk about dirty money (pun intended)

 

I actually like Dermot Mulroney. He probably got the part because he was already filming in Chicago on the now defunct Crisis series. Plus he is part of a trifecta of people mistaking actors for each other: Dermot Mulroney, or Dylan McDermott or Dean McDermott. Dylan apparently HATES this.

[dangwoodchucks]

Maybe I'm the only one, but I genuinely felt sorry for Fiona when they were evicted from their house. I work at a foreclosure firm and I see how it affects people who lose their homes, frequently because of circumstances beyond their control like job loss or illness. It really sucks. Also, it might be a small thing, but I kind of enjoyed seeing Debbie call Frank "Dad" and I could see that he did too. Maybe this cancer conceirge job is one of the most positive things that's happened to him.

 

I hope that Lip and the professor storyline is now over. She was an idiot and deserves to lose her job. I enjoyed seeing Ian with a new romantic interest and also a possible new career path. A firefighter would be a perfect job for him and he'd feel much better about himself than he has in months. 

 

Vee was great, along with Kevin. Now I'm wondering if this will be the last we see of Chuckie.

Frank is being a "cancer concierge" to take advantage of vulnerable people. Just another Gallagher scam which he's now involved Debbie in. He enjoyed Debbie calling him Dad because she drank the Kool-Aid he served and is 100% committed to learning all he can teach her. He must be so proud.

 

I forgot what happened with Ian when Sammi called the MPs on him, but surely that whole military mess on his record would keep him from becoming a firefighter, as could his age, not having completed school yet (I don't even know how old he's supposed to be anymore), his work experience and his mental health issues. A background check would reveal all of this. He might consider taking the test since it was brought up, but a potential hookup with a cute fireman was what brought him to the firehouse, not a career opportunity.

 

Did Fiona really think Sean's offer to stay at his place would include Carl and Nick too? She knew he was getting ready to have his son for a short time so it was pretty rude of her to get upset that he didn't want all of her siblings there. They're all doing their own thing and I may have missed something but Carl, Debbie and Ian didn't seem too concerned about where Liam and Fiona were going to stay.

 

Like others have said, I'll probably keep watching but the storylines are mostly just gross (Debbie and Frank) or who cares (Lip and Ian). Fucking Gallaghers...

[Cosmocrush]

I do agree that Helene deserves what disciplinary action she receives. Not only did she break the rules, she was pretty blatant about breaking them.

 

 

I'll be curious to see what the show claims to be the university policy on consensual relationships. They do vary widely. I don't think Lip is currently taking any classes under Helene, so if the relationship had waited until he was no longer her student, there are many places that wouldn't care.

Exactly.  It's been a long time since I was in college but these "policies" varied widely from school to school then too.    A consensual relationship between a student and a faculty member wouldn't be an issue for the school - especially if the student was not in the faculty member's class.  But then I went to a very liberal school and the students were considered adults in every way.  As a child of the 1970s (and college student of the 1980s) parents were the opposite of helicopter parents today. 

 

I had really wanted Lip to stick with Amanda, I think he liked her and she was good for him.  She was the reason he didn't quit that first quarter.   But then that's not the Gallagher way...

 

I hope this was the end of 1) Chuckie and 2) Helene.  I'm tired of both those storylines. 

 

Loved Vee and Kev this week.  Vee saved the episode for me. 

Edited February 9, 2016 by Cosmocrush

[WhosThatGirl]

Whats a shame is that I did like a lot of the stuff before this season started and it all went to hell.I mean, before Lip started with the married professor stuff, I liked his college arc and I liked Ian's bipolor arc stuff and everything with him and Mickey was heartbreaking and really well done and that's why I stuck with this show for a lot of last season. And that all went to hell for some reason, because the writers wrote the characters into a corner. So yeah I don't care anymore and that makes me sad and Yeah I'll probably still watch but i'm slowly removing myself from caring about anything that happens and I'm kind of sad.

[stagmania]

Whats a shame is that I did like a lot of the stuff before this season started and it all went to hell.I mean, before Lip started with the married professor stuff, I liked his college arc and I liked Ian's bipolor arc stuff and everything with him and Mickey was heartbreaking and really well done and that's why I stuck with this show for a lot of last season. And that all went to hell for some reason, because the writers wrote the characters into a corner. So yeah I don't care anymore and that makes me sad and Yeah I'll probably still watch but i'm slowly removing myself from caring about anything that happens and I'm kind of sad.

 

They really did start last season with so much potential for good character stories, but they squandered all of it by the end. I was hoping that season 6 would be a course correction, but instead they've doubled down on everything I hated most (Sean, Helene, Debbie's pregnancy, Ian dumping Mickey, useless new characters eating up screen time, increasingly desperate attempts at "shocking" "comedy", etc). Steve Howey gave an interview recently where he mentioned that the stories are now plot-driven instead of character-driven, and boy does that show. The characters are so inconsistent the last couple years, I barely recognize them from episode to episode (sometimes from scene to scene).

 

The Gallaghers always had their flaws, but I used to find them rootable and was always able to understand why they made the self-destructive choices they did. I feel like I don't understand them at all anymore, and neither does anyone writing the show.

[Miles]

How uncool was Caleb getting his junk grabbed after a million beers at the ballgame and being like "no- we have to have dinner first or something". That just seemed like it came from a different universe.

Unless he has the longest penis in the history of penis, that was just his leg.

I have to say I dislike this TV trope that you can't have a meaningfull relationship just because it started with sex. I thought Shameless successfully subverted that with Ian and Mickey, but I guess not...

Plus Ian and the fire fighter effectively have been on quite a few dates now. What else is hanging out with each other and a picknick in the park? Does it really have to be a formal date in a restaurant? What is this, 1965?

[WhosThatGirl]

Well they seem to be going to a great deal to sort of rewrite history with Mickey and Ian as of late. Also one could say Fiona and Jimmy/Steve started with sex too and then he was pretty much living with the Gallaghers. But what do we know? We've just been watching the show for six years. 

[stagmania]

I have to say I dislike this TV trope that you can't have a meaningfull relationship just because it started with sex. I thought Shameless successfully subverted that with Ian and Mickey, but I guess not...

Plus Ian and the fire fighter effectively have been on quite a few dates now. What else is hanging out with each other and a picknick in the park? Does it really have to be a formal date in a restaurant? What is this, 1965?

 

That whole exchange was odd in the extreme, for the reasons you point out. Ian knows what a relationship is, and he and Mickey spent plenty of time together where they weren't having sex (they worked together and lived together). Just because they didn't buy each other "flowers and chocolate" doesn't mean they never dated. 

 

I have to agree with the comment above that there seems to be a concerted effort this season to rewrite their dynamic and history and make Ian out to be something he never was. I really don't understand it, and as someone who really loved Mickey and what he brought to the show, I find it insulting. Advance previews for the next episode make it sound like it's only going to get worse on that front. 

[WhosThatGirl]

That whole exchange was odd in the extreme, for the reasons you point out. Ian knows what a relationship is, and he and Mickey spent plenty of time together where they weren't having sex (they worked together and lived together). Just because they didn't buy each other "flowers and chocolate" doesn't mean they never dated. 

 

I have to agree with the comment above that there seems to be a concerted effort this season to rewrite their dynamic and history and make Ian out to be something he never was. I really don't understand it, and as someone who really loved Mickey and what he brought to the show, I find it insulting. Advance previews for the next episode make it sound like it's only going to get worse on that front. 

I feel like I've been saying pretty much this too. You and I, we seem to be on the same wavelength. I really liked the character of Mickey and I liked his and Ian's relationship, I honestly have no idea why the writers went the way they did last season and don't like where they are going now, with anything on the show. I really think I might be done with the show. It had a good run, I just don't think I can watch anymore and might just read the recaps and comments. I may come back in the final season but until then, I don't know. I seem to watch the show and long for returns of long lost characters and plots and seasons and not this. 

[STOPSHOUTING]

Watching this episode I, too, felt like, 'Eh, I might be done with this series.' I'm someone who came late to the U.S. version of Shameless after loving the U.K. version and finding the first few epodes of the U.S. take I sampled a pale imitation. But I caught up during a Showtime marathon before, I believe, season 3, and found it had discovered its own voice and was really quite good.

 

I loved Lip, probably my favorite character because of how perfectly Jeremy White portrays him, and his messed up relationship with Karen, which was often terrible to watch, but also always interesting. And I desperately wanted him to stick with Mandy, who was good for him in her own, twisted way. (And, goodness, did they make that character, awful as she could be, but only for fairly good reasons, suffer terribly before writing her off.) Or Amanda who, while also crazy, was unquestionably good for Lip. But Lip and the professor he now "loves" (yuck)? Doesn't work for me on any level and I'm sooo sick of it. I get it. She has nice boobs. Good for her. I don't need to see them anymore. They have a lot of sex. Again, noted. Her husband and son know, and that's creepy. Gross. I noted it the first time, please stop showing me.

 

Yeah, and lovesick Lip is just not in character. She's the dumb one. She DESERVES to lose her job. Not just for being a gross person who takes advantage of her students, not matter how jaded they might be, but because she's really, really bad at it. She's been sexing him up in his dorm room, and her university office for MONTHS, it was only a matter of time before this happened. Amanda isn't really the one to blame.

 

Vee and Kevin, as with their UK-series counterparts, are awesome. Funny. Touching. Weird and sketchy as hell, but somehow throughly likable. So glad they're back to Kevin and Vee in love, versus that weird interlude they tried to do with postpartum, etc. Oh and, side note, Shanola Hampton, the actress who plays Vee, was in a freaking Hallmark Christmas movie a few years back (Christmas in the City, look it up). You know, those super clean movies where they don’t even let the main characters kiss unless they’re engaged? Took me a while to place her, but now every time I see foul-mouthed, part-time porn star Vee, all I can think is, "Hallmark movie." Tee, he!

 

And Ian and Mickey were, well, legendary. To pretend that wasn't the case now is just ... tragic. I just couldn't care less about anything Ian has done this season. None of it. No matter how cute those firemen were.

 

Oh and, yeah, Tony being gay? I loved the callback to his season one character, but I'm not buying it. His next line after, "your sister turned me gay" should have been, "Nah, I just play on their team." You could even follow it up with Ian saying something like, "Yeah, that's what Mickey used to say," or whatever. Lighthearted. Comes full circle. And believable. Unlike the idea that privately, not publicly, lovesick Tony, who had been sleeping with Fiona and many other girls, and then married and impregnated someone else while still longing for Fiona, was secretly gay all that time. Just doesn't fit at all from where we last saw the character. Plus, on what planet do even reasonably responsible police and firefighters gleefully get into an all out public fistfight for the pure fun of it, with everyone joining in and no one pulling anyone back? I can see a Gallagher doing it, but people with their lives mostly together, no matter what neighborhood they came from, WTF?

 

Ian’s most interesting moment of the season could have been where he saved the woman from the car, after what looked like he was contemplating suicide on the bridge. Exploring that could have been really interesting, and instead they turn it into a hookup opportunity? Flabbergasted.

 

Frank needed to be written off several seasons ago (though, I do, Bianca was his best arc in the series to date), and I'm starting to feel the same way about Fiona. I'm so sick of Fiona. Not only is the, “everyone falls in love with Fiona” trope that has always been Shameless most unifying theme SOOO overdone, but I hated her, “Why does stuff like this keep happening to us?” Made me want to scream. Umm, because you and yours make the most terrible choices imaginable? Because at some point it’s no longer your shitty parents fault, but your own? Oh and, like the cop said, “Did you get an eviction notice? That’s your notice.” Duh.

 

Yelling at Dermot Mulroney -- I’m sure he has a character name but I don’t know it -- was ridiculous. Why would he want two criminals, even if Nick seems like a good egg (not so much Carl), sleeping in his one bedroom apartment with his young son he already hardly gets to see? Duh! Honestly, she and Liam shouldn’t even be there!

 

And, how is delaying your abortion gonna help anything? It would actually take one stressful thing off your plate, dumb-dumb. Stupid drama. Also, how could this baby be Gus or Jimmy/Steve’s?  I feel like the timeline is all over the place. Bianca has been dead for months, and Fiona was with Dermot Mulroney before that happened. Do the writers understand how pregnancy, and a clearly not showing Emme Rossum, work? How can Debbie be too far along for an abortion, when her boyfriend just disappeared, and the pregnancy was just confirmed, at the beginning of the current season (OBVIOUSLY BEFORE FIONA WAS PREGNANT), and Fiona still be questioning whose baby she’s having, even though she’s only been with Dermot/Whatever-His-Character’s-Name-Is since before that?

 

Grrrrr … Am I the only one this is driving nuts?

Edited February 12, 2016 by STOPSHOUTING

[stagmania]

Grrrrr … Am I the only one this is driving nuts?

 

Haha definitely not. I was nodding along with your whole post. You've summed up many of my issues with this season very well.

[iMonrey]

Forgot to mention . . . when Fiona was doing that final walk-though in her house, it looked like the hardwood floors were in WAY better shape than I would expect in an older house like that, especially considering the junkies and maniacs that have lived there.

[whiporee]

 

I loved Lip, probably my favorite character because of how perfectly Jeremy White portrays him, and his messed up relationship with Karen, which was often terrible to watch, but also always interesting. And I desperately wanted him to stick with Mandy, who was good for him in her own, twisted way. (And, goodness, did they make that character, awful as she could be, but only for fairly good reasons, suffer terribly before writing her off.) Or Amanda who, while also crazy, was unquestionably good for Lip. But Lip and the professor he now "loves" (yuck)? Doesn't work for me on any level and I'm sooo sick of it. I get it. She has nice boobs. Good for her. I don't need to see them anymore. They have a lot of sex. Again, noted. Her husband and son know, and that's creepy. Gross. I noted it the first time, please stop showing me

 

I think Lip and Helene makes all the sense in the world, at least from his perspective. They've shown Lip to fall pretty deep once he falls, and for him, there's a lot to see in Helene. The most obvious is that he's got Mommy issues (and who can blame him?). The second is that she wants nothing from him, which has been the constant for both Helene and Karen -- they existed on their own, without him, and he had to squeeze into their lives. As opposed to Mandy and Amanda, who wanted to build their world around him. He doesn't fall for girls who "do" something for him (Amanda's scheduling, Mandy's application submitting); he falls for those who take him as an accessory. 

 

I also think she's the furthest thing from his home that he can find, while still having the necessary level of chaos for a Gallagher to feel comfortable. And she's a lot smarter than him, so he has things to learn.  So that he feels like he loves her includes a myriad of things colliding in his life -- a mother figure who teaches him things, hot and new sex, a degree of illicity -- it makes sense that he'd fall deeply for her.

 

 

She DESERVES to lose her job. Not just for being a gross person who takes advantage of her students, not matter how jaded they might be, but because she's really, really bad at it. She's been sexing him up in his dorm room, and her university office for MONTHS, it was only a matter of time before this happened. Amanda isn't really the one to blame.

 

I think that's a matter of the University's policy. I don't think sleeping with students is a new idea in academia, and I think it disempowers everyone to assume that adults can't screw because one of them happens to be a teacher. Adults can make decisions -- Lip can make a decision -- about screwing a professor and have it be his decision and his consequences. She may be taking advantage of the opportunity to meet young virile guys, but that's not the same as taking advantage of him. Not every sexual act is a conquest, even if it's between people of dissimilar ages and positions. You may find it icky, but there is no universality to that ickiness. 

 

As for Amanda, she broke into his phone is search of photos and then decided to wreck her ex's life just because she could. She, and she alone, is to blame for it. She's not entitled to his affection or his devotion or anything at all. They had a romance that ended. it happens. She doesn't get to foster off retribution because she watched Liam a few times. And I'd even argue that she was good for Lip. She tried to dictate the terms of his life (scheduling his activities down to the blowjob), and he didn't want that. She let him know he was a prop, and then she decided she wanted it to be more. He didn't. I might have loved that in college, but it's perfectly in character for Lip not to want anyone who wants to control him. 

 

 

And Ian and Mickey were, well, legendary.

 

I don't get it. Mickey is a real bad guy. A criminal, who we've seen doing very criminal things. He's violent, his possessive, he's needy and he's violent. Ian's a decent enough kid with a condition. Aside from them being gay, what is legendary about their relationship? That Mickey finally came out to his father? That was a good scene and a good development, but it was hardly redemptive. If you'd like for any of these Gallaghers to get into a better life, I can promise you Ian wasn't going anywhere decent with Mickey along. 

 

 

Not only is the, “everyone falls in love with Fiona” trope that has always been Shameless most unifying theme SOOO overdone, but I hated her, “Why does stuff like this keep happening to us?” Made me want to scream. Umm, because you and yours make the most terrible choices imaginable? Because at some point it’s no longer your shitty parents fault, but your own? Oh and, like the cop said, “Did you get an eviction notice? That’s your notice.” Duh.

 

What exact bad decision has Fiona made that has put her family (the one she took control of because her parents wouldn't) in this position? She's a kid raising young adults. Robbie left cocaine on a table and Ian found it. That's it. She was paying the rent on the house (which, by the way, was stolen from them every bit as much as they were trying to steal it) she keeps her family fed, the heat on, makes sure the kids get to school and doesn't kill her father. As fun as it is to say things are her fault, in reality, none of it is. You could say that she was wrong to cheat on Gus, but he's the one who proposed fast. She was wrong to cheat on Mike, but Mike was the one who put his asshole brother and his girlfriend together in a drunken circumstance. She has consistently tried to get out of this place, but it's hard to do when there are 3.5 kids on your belt and you had to drop out to raise them. 

 

I don't think everyone falls in love with Fiona, but if you're introduced as a love interest for Fiona, I think that falling for her is the narrative way to go. But Kevin never fell for her. The aforementioned Robbie never fell for her. Gus' bandmate never fell for her, neither did Karen's husband. There are plenty of men who haven't fallen for Fiona, but when a male is introduced into the plot of a story starring a single female, it's a pretty safe bet romance is going to follow. 

 

 

And, how is delaying your abortion gonna help anything? It would actually take one stressful thing off your plate, dumb-dumb.

 

Because it's never as easy as it sounds, at least not for her. I think ti's realistic to have it be a big deal to her even she's pretending it's not. She's been playing Mom for a long time; it's not natural that at least part of her wonders about being one for real. And with everything collapsing around her, maybe it's one more loss that she's just not up to dealing with at the moment. 

Edited February 13, 2016 by whiporee

[junemeatcleaver]

 

I don't get it. Mickey is a real bad guy. A criminal, who we've seen doing very criminal things. He's violent, his possessive, he's needy and he's violent. Ian's a decent enough kid with a condition. Aside from them being gay, what is legendary about their relationship? That Mickey finally came out to his father? That was a good scene and a good development, but it was hardly redemptive. If you'd like for any of these Gallaghers to get into a better life, I can promise you Ian wasn't going anywhere decent with Mickey along.

 

I don't get how Mickey and Ian are a legendary couple, either.  The guy who played Mickey was a dynamic actor and Mickey and Ian had some good moments, but as far as the show being a waste without them?  I'm not seeing it.  Or am I seeing how it's completely out of character for Ian to be acting like a "slut."  I mean, the guy was a stripper and hustler for an entire season for pete's sake.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I am fine with the new firefighter wanting to go on some kind of date first and I think that despite Ian's initial reaction, he might end up enjoying it. I get that it's not 1950 and not everyone wants to go on a date to the diner and have milkshakes. But not everyone just wants to fuck strangers either. If the new guy wants to spend an hour having dinner and getting to know Ian before deciding whether to have sex with him, I don't think that makes him incredibly old fashioned or weird. On top of that, when Ian started liking Mickey, it seemed like he wanted something more like a traditional relationship where they spent time together doing things besides having sex but Mickey was so resistant. Now that Mickey's gone, it seems like Ian's just been having sex with random guys, partly because it's easy to do so, partly because he doesn't want to get emotionally attached again. I wouldn't be surprised if Ian ended up enjoying the process of going on a romantic date (although I can see him complaining about it first because he is so used to just getting right down to it with very little overture).

 

I think that's a matter of the University's policy. I don't think sleeping with students is a new idea in academia, and I think it disempowers everyone to assume that adults can't screw because one of them happens to be a teacher. Adults can make decisions -- Lip can make a decision -- about screwing a professor and have it be his decision and his consequences. She may be taking advantage of the opportunity to meet young virile guys, but that's not the same as taking advantage of him. Not every sexual act is a conquest, even if it's between people of dissimilar ages and positions. You may find it icky, but there is no universality to that ickiness.

For me the main issue is that Helene is not just A professor. She is Lip's professor. He went to her office hours because he was her student. That is a gross imbalance of power because she is in a position of authority. That's like dating your manager at work (ahem, Fiona). If Lip were having sex with a random professor who had no affiliation with any of his classes or his department, it would be way less of an issue for me.

[STOPSHOUTING]

I think Lip and Helene makes all the sense in the world, at least from his perspective. They've shown Lip to fall pretty deep once he falls, and for him, there's a lot to see in Helene. The most obvious is that he's got Mommy issues (and who can blame him?). The second is that she wants nothing from him, which has been the constant for both Helene and Karen -- they existed on their own, without him, and he had to squeeze into their lives. As opposed to Mandy and Amanda, who wanted to build their world around him. He doesn't fall for girls who "do" something for him (Amanda's scheduling, Mandy's application submitting); he falls for those who take him as an accessory. 

 

I also think she's the furthest thing from his home that he can find, while still having the necessary level of chaos for a Gallagher to feel comfortable. And she's a lot smarter than him, so he has things to learn.  So that he feels like he loves her includes a myriad of things colliding in his life -- a mother figure who teaches him things, hot and new sex, a degree of illicity -- it makes sense that he'd fall deeply for her.

 

 

I think that's a matter of the University's policy. I don't think sleeping with students is a new idea in academia, and I think it disempowers everyone to assume that adults can't screw because one of them happens to be a teacher. Adults can make decisions -- Lip can make a decision -- about screwing a professor and have it be his decision and his consequences. She may be taking advantage of the opportunity to meet young virile guys, but that's not the same as taking advantage of him. Not every sexual act is a conquest, even if it's between people of dissimilar ages and positions. You may find it icky, but there is no universality to that ickiness. 

 

As for Amanda, she broke into his phone is search of photos and then decided to wreck her ex's life just because she could. She, and she alone, is to blame for it. She's not entitled to his affection or his devotion or anything at all. They had a romance that ended. it happens. She doesn't get to foster off retribution because she watched Liam a few times. And I'd even argue that she was good for Lip. She tried to dictate the terms of his life (scheduling his activities down to the blowjob), and he didn't want that. She let him know he was a prop, and then she decided she wanted it to be more. He didn't. I might have loved that in college, but it's perfectly in character for Lip not to want anyone who wants to control him. 

 

 

I don't get it. Mickey is a real bad guy. A criminal, who we've seen doing very criminal things. He's violent, his possessive, he's needy and he's violent. Ian's a decent enough kid with a condition. Aside from them being gay, what is legendary about their relationship? That Mickey finally came out to his father? That was a good scene and a good development, but it was hardly redemptive. If you'd like for any of these Gallaghers to get into a better life, I can promise you Ian wasn't going anywhere decent with Mickey along. 

 

 

What exact bad decision has Fiona made that has put her family (the one she took control of because her parents wouldn't) in this position? She's a kid raising young adults. Robbie left cocaine on a table and Ian found it. That's it. She was paying the rent on the house (which, by the way, was stolen from them every bit as much as they were trying to steal it) she keeps her family fed, the heat on, makes sure the kids get to school and doesn't kill her father. As fun as it is to say things are her fault, in reality, none of it is. You could say that she was wrong to cheat on Gus, but he's the one who proposed fast. She was wrong to cheat on Mike, but Mike was the one who put his asshole brother and his girlfriend together in a drunken circumstance. She has consistently tried to get out of this place, but it's hard to do when there are 3.5 kids on your belt and you had to drop out to raise them. 

 

I don't think everyone falls in love with Fiona, but if you're introduced as a love interest for Fiona, I think that falling for her is the narrative way to go. But Kevin never fell for her. The aforementioned Robbie never fell for her. Gus' bandmate never fell for her, neither did Karen's husband. There are plenty of men who haven't fallen for Fiona, but when a male is introduced into the plot of a story starring a single female, it's a pretty safe bet romance is going to follow. 

 

 

Because it's never as easy as it sounds, at least not for her. I think ti's realistic to have it be a big deal to her even she's pretending it's not. She's been playing Mom for a long time; it's not natural that at least part of her wonders about being one for real. And with everything collapsing around her, maybe it's one more loss that she's just not up to dealing with at the moment. 

 

I disagree with a lot of what you say, obviously, but I respect your opinion, except on the university policy, where it’s not really an opinion, it’s just factually inaccurate. It is never, by the current rules of society, backed up in almost cases by actual law, to have sex, in your place of business (her office, his dorm room) with your underling, or anyone that you have power over in any way. That’s the definition of sexual harassment which, no matter what the ages of the participants involved, is illegal. Even though it can, and does, happen, it's not simply breaking of a "University policy” or one person’s moral code, by "consenting adults,” it’s violating workplace law, just like racial discrimination.

 

It IS simply a moral prohibition that married people don’t have sex with those outside their marriage, but it’s a fairly established one. We don’t put people in jail for adultery any more — though such laws still technically exist in many places -- but there are thousands of years of precedence as to such relationships being wildly unacceptable. And, for most, morality grows ever murkier when you’re talking about a significant age difference between the participants. People sleeping with those that are, literally, the same age as their children is never not a thing. Sure, it HAPPENS, but it’s always notable and looked down upon by a large percentage of the population.

 

For the record, I agree 100 percent with why Lip got into this relationship, and it didn’t work with those that were more good for him. I think that’s exactly the pathology the show is promoting. But as a viewer I’m done with watching this one. It should have imploded or, in this case, exploded, long ago. I think the writers find their dirty sexy time much more interesting than at least I do, as a viewer.

 

Again, I’m not condoning Amanda’s actions, but you seem to absolve the Gallaghers of all blame in all situations (I disagree wildly, for instance, that Fiona bears no responsibility for her any of her own situations but, again, different strokes), but then come down awfully hard on those that supposedly “wrong” them, even if it’s just by being too nice, with "they should have known better." You don’t think Lip should have “known better” than to leave Amanda alone in his room? You don’t think Lip should have “known better” than to take, and save, that picture of his professor?

 

The show wants us to root for Lip and Helene not to get caught, but they also want their characters to suffer, hence why Amanda put into motion the inevitable calling out that really couldn’t be avoided given Lip and Helene’s complete and utter indiscretion with their illicit AND illegal relationship.

 

Mickey and Ian were legendary (my opinion) because they were so totally and completely screwed up. Mickey literally broke every stereotype and was a pioneer amongst his peers by coming out (literally and figuratively) with his love for Ian. The way they protected and stood by each other, through everything, including Ian’s illness, went far beyond Mickey’s obviously criminal nature. He learned, against everything he’d ever been taught and known that, yes, you can be gay AND a tough guy. You can be loved, even when you’re beyond screwed up. They taught each other to be themselves in a way they were never were before they came into each other’s lives as lovers. That their love stayed somewhat pure despite all the ugliness, hate, prejudice and circumstance they were surrounded by, is the beauty of that relationship for me.

 

Was Mickey GOOD for Ian is a wholly other question? In the twisted morality of the show’s universe, I’d argue yes, because criminality has a sliding scale in the Gallagher’s world. Mickey was a criminal by default and upbringing, but he took care of his own, and that’s the biggest code the Gallagher’s have.

My problem with Fiona’s irresistibility is that no matter how hot Emmy Rossum is, and I agree she’s super gorgeous, one look at her incredibly f’ed up family life and circumstance and 999 out of a 1,000 guys would bang and run. Instead, in Fiona’s world, she is constantly courted by multiple men that want her despite her many, MANY flaws and hang ups. That let her use and abuse them, and come happily back for more. Do people like that exist? For sure. But the odds of her meeting ONLY good looking, Savior Complex guys who want to worship her are pretty much nil in even a nominally realistic world, where she’d much more often be the one taken advantage of and discarded, a la Svetlana.

 

Of course this is all just a fictional show about fictional people with fictional problems, so if you’re rooting for the messiest most disastrous outcomes that’s cool too, because no real people are involved, unlike if any place had a real university policy that was supposedly OK with students having sex with teachers in their offices.

Dark can be interesting and intriguing, but at some point  characters can make SO many bad choices and endure so many things that they’re no longer fun to watch. For me, Fiona has hit that place. Her character and so-called “moral center" is so constantly shifting, for sake of plot contrivance, that I’ve lost in any interest I once had in watching her try to make good, or at least not go down.

 

Frank was NEVER redeemable, but he’s also lost ANY, limited viewing interest I ever had in him. Going back down the cancer road and finding another wild, unlikely woman is so been there, done that, even if she wants to screw Debs and not her father for kicks. Frankly, pun intended, the U.S. version never did anything very interesting with the head of the Gallagher family.

 

Anyway, blah, blah, blah … It’s just a TV show.

[stagmania]

I don't get how Mickey and Ian are a legendary couple, either.  The guy who played Mickey was a dynamic actor and Mickey and Ian had some good moments, but as far as the show being a waste without them?  I'm not seeing it. 

 

Because the show spent five seasons slowly building their story? Whether you liked them or not, Ian and Mickey and their relationship were a big part of the fabric of Shameless, as was the entire Milkovich family. For some of us, the show feels like it's missing something without them, and it's especially galling for the writing to basically pretend they were never there (Mandy) or never mattered (Mickey). 

 

As for Mickey being a "real bad person", I really don't understand that attitude at all. This entire show is about "bad" people who bend and break the law to survive. "When you're poor, the only way to make money is to scam it or steal it"-it's right there in the ethos of the show. The Gallaghers have all been criminals in one way or another (Fiona and Lip have both scammed people and stole, Ian has engaged in prostitution and kidnapping, Debbie is a rapist, Carl is a drug and arms dealer, Frank has killed and recklessly endangered countless people), and Kev and Vee were porn makers and pimps. But somehow the Milkoviches are terrible people while the rest are just poor with hearts of gold?

 

If anything, I think it's remarkable how much Mickey was able to overcome his much more brutal home life to be in a relationship with Ian, and that's why so many were invested in their story-because we saw that character growth happen over five years. Just because the show is not interested in holding the Gallaghers accountable for most of their criminal behavior does not mean they are better than the side characters who get punished once the show is done with them.

[whiporee]

 

But somehow the Milkoviches are terrible people while the rest are just poor with hearts of gold?

 

Mickey beats people with baseball bats. In prison his shivving people for money. We only really know three Milkoviches, and one of them got his daughter pregnant, one is Mickey and one, while she may have had a nice side at times, also tried to kill someone who was her competition for a guy. I think that goes beyond pulling a few scams, it goes beyond stealing from a broken meat truck, it goes beyond hooking or stripping. The only sin a Gallagher has committed that is on par with Mickey (and Mandy's attempted murder of Karen) is Frank, and no one finds him redeemable. 

[stagmania]

Mickey beats people with baseball bats. In prison his shivving people for money. We only really know three Milkoviches, and one of them got his daughter pregnant, one is Mickey and one, while she may have had a nice side at times, also tried to kill someone who was her competition for a guy. I think that goes beyond pulling a few scams, it goes beyond stealing from a broken meat truck, it goes beyond hooking or stripping. The only sin a Gallagher has committed that is on par with Mickey (and Mandy's attempted murder of Karen) is Frank, and no one finds him redeemable. 

 

Well, that's a matter of opinion, and we'll just have to agree to disagree. I think the Gallagher siblings have done plenty of morally questionable things, and aside from criminal issues, have proven to be selfish in the extreme and generally terrible romantic partners. That doesn't make me hate them, but it certainly doesn't lead me to the conclusion that they are too good for any of their myriad love interests.

 

Re: Mickey, I don't think anyone would deny that he is a violent criminal-he was raised to be one, after all. But I think he's a lot more than that, and was always treated as such by the show until this season, when they wrote him off and decided to rewrite history while they were at it. It's like the last several years of his character development never happened, and I don't appreciate the implication that the problems in Ian and Mickey's relationship were because of some defect in Mickey's character.