S01.E01: From The Ashes Of Tragedy

[Maharincess]

Okay I'm hooked. Ya got me Ryan Murphy. I wasn't even this into the case when it was happening 20 years ago! Like the poster above I was annoyed the trial interrupted daytime TV. I'm in it for Courtney P. Vance's Johnny Cochran, Sarah Paulson's chain smoking Marcia Clarke, John Travolta's Robert Shapiro, whoever is playing Kato Kaelin, Connie Britton as Faye Resnick.and surprisingly David Schwimmer's Robert Kardashian.

Yes Cuba doesn't look or sound like OJ at all but he was great as playing someone who was on the edge.

Like it or not the Kardashian family were friends with OJ and Nicole. OJ really did try to kill himself in Kim's bedroom. I thought it was a good way to get any references out of the way.

And yes he did try to kill himself in Kim's bedroom. Not sure if she really had a Joey Lawrence poster thojugh.

I know all of that,I'm just saying that we didn't need the reminder that that family is involved and to me that is all that line was.

[SinInTheCamp]

If I had an ex-husband and he was killed, please don't jump my security gate and claim you are looking to tell me.  Never quite understood why the search was upheld.  it doesn't mean I don't think OJ wasn't guilty-I just never understood  why it was okay to conduct a de facto search of OJ's place.  I guess at one point the theory was floated out there they thought OJ might be a victim.

 

Yes, they supposedly saw the blood on/in the parked Bronco and thought there might have been a triple homicide, with Nicole's murderer also having attacked her ex-husband. At that point (according to the officers), it turned into a "check the welfare" call, and since no one responded to the gate buzzer, they proceeded inside to make sure OJ wasn't dead or dying. 

[PepperMonkey]

I think Cuba Gooding Jr is an excellent actor. I also think he is totally wrong for the part of OJ. From the timbre of his voice to his physical appearance, IMHO, it's just jarring.

 

Courney B. Vance as Johnnie Cochran and the actress playing Marcia Clark are outstanding. I'm even kind of enjoying Travolta as Schapiro and I think he's doing a great job of playing the lawyer who only wanted to be a celebrity.

 

I didn't even recognize Malcolm Jamal Warner as AC. And Schwimmer did fine, or rather, his hair did.

[ShadowHunter]

That was in 92 and the murders were in 94.

Thanks I edited it. Can't believe I mixed up the years.

Seeing the posters of Jonathen Taylor Thomas(JTT) and Joey Lawrence wow I remember all the girls in my school loving them.

Sarah paulson was good but thanks to AHS I kept waiting for her to cry. She does that alot.

The Menendez brothers first trial was in 93. I remember that aired on TV also and had alot of attention.

[SinInTheCamp]

When he went to the funeral and kissed her and then stood over the body in the casket for what seemed like an hour, it was all Othello and shit.

 

No, seriously, this was much better than I expected it would be. The years just fly by, and to me, this is very recent history, not something half-remembered from childhood. So my initial reaction to the news of it was that we already had had a television series about the O.J. Simpson trial, and it was called "the O.J. Simpson trial," and there could be no topping those "performances." But as a 20-years-later dramatic version, this could go the distance.  

 

Same for me, Simon. I was about 20 when this all went down, and it honestly doesn't seem 20 years removed from the present. I lived in Los Angeles, and the fact that this was happening practically in my backyard was so surreal. I also appreciated the footage of Rodney King and the riots, as those events were still fresh in our minds in L.A. I mean, in '94 and '95, I was still driving past the burnt remains of buildings that were lost during the riots. I'm glad that the show is emphasizing these connections and the racial tension/police brutality that permeated the city and ushered in the circumstances surrounding this case for some of the younger viewers who may not be wholly familiar with it.

 

I also loved this episode and sat enthralled the entire time, nodding in remembrance at various points. I thought they were spot-on in much of their casting. Schwimmer was excellent as Robert Kardashian, as were the actors who played Marsha Clark, Christopher Darden, Kato Kaelin, Johnny Cochran, and the detectives Vannatter and Lange. Even the little actors who played OJ's young children looked just like them at that time! I wasn't feeling Cuba at first (his lack of stature and height immediately threw me off), but when he went into his rages, I was sold. Great acting. I loved John Travolta purely for the camp factor. I have no problem with him--he gave me a few chuckles that contrasted nicely with the tension the show managed to create. I'd been looking forward to this for so long, and I was well-pleased with the result.

Edited February 3, 2016 by SinInTheCamp

[VCRTracking]

I also like that they show Marcia Clark not knowing or caring about football which is true to life. Before the 1995 Super Bowl when my hometown 49ers destroyed the San Diego Chargers the local paper asked a bunch of celebrities who was going to win and Clark was one of them. Her only answer was "Oh please I don't know anything about that!"

Edited February 3, 2016 by VCRTracking

[suomi]

I'm a grumpy old stickler for detail so YMMV, but ...

 

CG Jr is just wrong in this role, as many have mentioned. Wrong look, wrong voice, wrong build. I had been hoping for Duane Johnson or Idris Elba. Bob Kardashian was 5'7" and quite lean, while Schwimmer is over 6' and bulky. Bob Shapiro was fairly tall and very lean; he was and still is in good shape while Travolta is a big ol' moose. He cracks me up trying to do Shapiro's trademark one-arm-across-chest move because his arm isn't quite long enough to cross that long distance. I don't like the casting of Connie Britton either, not the least bit impressed with her so far.

 

Clark, Cochran, Darden, Garcetti, Fuhrman, Kaelin, those roles are well-cast and being portrayed accurately. As is Allen Park, limo driver.  

 

Sydney Simpson did leave that voice message trying to reach her mother. Tonight it was presented as coming in during daylight which would mean that she and Justin were already with their grandparents (the Browns) in Dana Point. I read that one of the officers on scene pushed Play on the machine that morning and that's how the message was heard. That book (I forget which one) was ambiguous re when Sydney made the call, but surely it was not while she was at the West LA police station for a few hours. Al Cowlings and Arnelle Simpson picked up the kids from the PD and took them to Dana Point.

 

Another book, I read so many, maybe Schiller's, relates that Kato called a dealer-to-the-stars who sent his runner to meet Kato and OJ where they were grabbing a burger. Kato told dude to leave the car for a few (because OJ didn't want to snort in front of a stranger). When dude came back Kato AND OJ complimented the quality of dude's wares. Some say coke, some say meth, because there was a huge coke shortage in SoCal that spring/summer. See, and Paula Barbieri broke up with OJ that afternoon and went to Vegas with Michael Bolton, Nicole recently said Fuck Off and returned a gift of jewelry, and then Dissed Him In Public that night. Add coke to that, or meth FFS, and bam!

Edited February 3, 2016 by suomi

[Avaleigh]

This is going to sound totally nuts but I finally realized that John Travolta's voice for Shapiro sounds to me almost like an Ed Sullivan impression. 

[VCRTracking]

To me it sounded like him when he was being Nicholas Cage with Travolta's face in Face/Off.

 

Someone on Twitter thought Kim would have had Fresh Prince posters instead of ones of Joey Lawrence and Jonathan Taylor Thomas in her room, but y'know, tastes change.

Edited February 3, 2016 by VCRTracking

[loki567]

I was pretty young during the OJ trial and didn't pay attention to it, so I think I'm going to enjoy this more than someone with a firm grasp of the actual details. One of my favorite shows ever was an old ABC drama named Murder One, which was heavily based on the Simpson trial and spent an entire 22-episode season on one murder trial. So this is right up my alley with how both sides of the case have to do their jobs in an immense pressure cooker. 

 

It is amazing how relevant this all feels 20 years later. Between Black Lives Matter, the theories about OJ having CTE, and Donald Trump being the first reality tv presidential candidate, it's kinda crazy the effect this one murder trial had on our national psyche. 

[suomi]

Well, we are only a few minutes in and already the errors are bugging me.  Kato was outside investigating the "bumps" when OJ's limo first arrived, and when OJ came out.  Personally, I think that's significant, actually everything that happened with Kato that night was significant, since OJ set him up to be his alibi.

 

Anyway, I approve of the opening with Rodney King, because that certainly set the tone of the times.

 

Hopefully it gets better.

 

Exactly. Thank you.

 

After first thinking it was an earthquake (and saying so to the person he was on the phone with), Kato went to the path behind his bungalow after hearing the bumps but didn't venture too far because it was dark and he was alone. Kato was quite concerned about it and a few minutes later he mentioned it to OJ who was hurrying with getting to the limo. Kato said he thought he should call the police, but OJ told him not to call the police and not to worry about it.

 

Maybe this will be referred to later, because it definitely should be if they are going to tell the story accurately. Or maybe not.

 

Then, what, 90 minutes or 2 hours later? When Fuhrman knocked on Kato's door one of the first things Kato mentioned was the noises/bumps on his wall earlier, and looking behind the bungalow. Thinking that Kato was goofy from something more than being awakened by a stranger, Fuhrman gave Kato the nystagmus test with a flashlight to make sure he wasn't high on something (he wasn't, he was just being Kato). Which Is Why Fuhrman Went Down The Path Where He Found The Left-handed Glove That Matched The Right-handed Glove Found Near The Bodies At Bundy. No conspiracy, either large or small. No attempt to frame someone for murder. No fumbling, no bumbling. Just ... an intelligent detective assessing information, using deductive reasoning, and being good at his job. Whatever else can be said about Fuhrman, he is one damn fine cop. Which is why he noticed evidence at both crime scenes that others didn't see (or look for). Some say hot dog, I say good cop.

 

Maybe this will be referred to later, because it definitely should be if they are going to tell the story accurately. Or maybe not.

[Major Bigtime]

One thing Kato said they left out was when he tried to help OJ with his bag, and OJ told him to "leave it"....because that's the bag that supposedly had the knife in it. And I don't remember the limo being white from all the various photos shown during the trial.

[Spartan Girl]

Got to love the irony of Johnnie Cochran saying that money is the only way to get justice.

Cuba Gooding Jr is definitely bringing the crazy as OJ. The funeral scene made my skin crawl. And if it's true that the guy had a statue of himself in his backyard, what an egomaniac.

I like Sarah Paulsen as Marcia Clark so far. But I hate that people wrote her off as a bitch, especially if that was a factor. Yes she might have been too intense but she was DOING HER JOB. It shouldn't be a popularity contest. People thought OJ was the nicest guy in the world, look how that turned out.

And I just need to get this off my chest: "Juice" is a STUPID nickname.

All the police brutality references made me angry, especially given that dislike against the police was basically the reason why the jury acquitted him. They didn't strike a blow for race relations, they let a murderer walk...and basically caused even more racial tensions.

[poeticlicensed]

I thought I was in for the long haul with this until the funeral scene and I heard the completely unnecessary "Kourtney, Khloe stop running" from the Evil Kris Jenner character and I was out.

There was absolutely no reason for that line to be in there. This is the story about the murder of 2 human beings, why the hell did they have to add that stupid line about that disgusting family?

When David Schwimmer kept yelling "AC is here!! AC is here!". All I heard was "pivot pivot".

I have to ask, did the Kardashian kids REALLY attend Nicole's funeral? Or is this just an attempt by FX to get ratings. If they did, then WTF was Kris Jenner thinking? THe girls were what, young teens at best, who takes their kids to a funeral of a friend who has been brutally murdered, almost decapitated, especially when the person you suspect of doing it will be there, not to mention, a barrage of media? Or did I just answer my own question?

 

Yes, really, why have Kris' character calling to the soon to be "famous for nothing" children, other than to be an attention grabber? I'm sure they will also do many shots of the "suicide" scene which supposedly took place in Kim's bedroom, and I'm sure the cameras will pan all over the place, to show pictures. Maybe they will even show her underwear in a drawer. It's just gross and expolitive

Edited February 3, 2016 by poeticlicensed

[poeticlicensed]

I personally think Fuhrman is a jackass, but holy hell, he would have had to be a brilliant master manipulator to within a VERY short period of time, surmise what happened and set out to frame OJ. He would have had to make the connection, decide immediately that OJ was going to get set up, take blood, the glove and other evidence, go off to OJ's, plant it, and still be asking questions of witnesses at the same time. Oh, and he would have had to also be communicating with others who he has brought into the conspiracy. It defies logic, as they didn't even suspect OJ until for a few hours, as well as logistics. I don't think Furhman was that smart or powerful. THe man actually tried to make a disability claim against the city claiming the job made him racist. I mean, come on. 

[VanillaBeanne]

I have always believed oj was guilty, but I am not convinced that he wasn't framed.

I think furhman suspected oj from the first second he found out was dead. Wives are usually killed by husbands/boyfriends, and furhman knew that oj had a history of domestic violence against Nicole. Dead kid, suspect parent. Dead wife, suspect husband. That's basic police work. Doesn't mean the parent or spouse did it but you need to look there first.

The fact that furhman admitted to planting evidence to bolster his case on tape was very damning, IMO. The fact that he was the only one that saw the blood evidence on ojs car and the glove could be due to his superior detective skills (skills he showed he indeed had later through his detective work in the moxley trial) but it could also be due to him convincing himself oj was guilty (rightly so) and helping to make case by planting evidence. Both theories are plausible to me.

And you don't need a conspiracy among the cops. Furhman could have picked up the glove with or with out other cops seeing it. If they saw it, do you think they would say anything? I don't. They probably think oj is guilty too and almost ALL the recent police shootings where you have video of the shooting and the testimony of the other cops have demonstrated to me how strong the blue wall is. Cops don't rat out other cops when a cop murders someone. Why would they here when a furhman is basically doing something for the greater good?

The defense was right to raise this as a defense. It would be playing the race card if they tried to introduce evidence that the LAPD, generally, was racist, and not the specific responding officers involved in the case. But they found compelling evidence that the cop who found key evidence linking oj to the crime was racist and had no issues planting evidence in exactly these types of situations. That was a smoking gun (or bloody glove) that could not be ignored.

I

Edited February 3, 2016 by VanillaBeanne

[poeticlicensed]

I have always believed oj was guilty, but I am not convinced that he wasn't framed.

I think furhman suspected oj from the first second he found out was dead. Wives are usually killed by husbands/boyfriends, and furhman knew that oj had a history of domestic violence against Nicole.

The fact that furhman admitted to planting evidence to bolster his case on tape was very damning, IMO. The fact that he was the only one that saw the blood evidence on ojs car and the glove could be due to his superior detective skills (skills he showed he indeed had later through his detective work in the moxley trial) but it could also be due to him convincing himself oj was guilty (rightly so) and helping to make case by planting evidence. Both theories are plausible to me.

And you don't need a conspiracy among the cops. Furhman could have picked up the glove with or with out other cops seeing it. If they saw it, do you think they would say anything? I don't. They probably think oj is guilty too and almost ALL the recent police shootings where you have video of the shooting and the testimony of the other cops have demonstrated to me how strong the blue wall is. Cops don't rat out other cops when a cop murders someone. Why would they here when a furhman is basically doing something for the greater good?

The defense was right to raise this as a defense. It would be playing the race card if they tried to introduce evidence that the LAPD, generally, was racist, and not the specific responding officers involved in the case. But they found compelling evidence that the cop who found key evidence linking oj to the crime was racist and had no issues planting evidence in exactly these types of situations. That was a smoking gun (or bloody glove) that could not be ignored.

I

I get that it happens and it might have happened in this case, but it's just speculation. The only one who knows for sure ain't talking. I'm sure they never thought this case would become a case about race

 

In the end,it wouldn't have mattered anyway.  I think could have  had video of OJ murdering two people and the jury would have acquitted. Hell, we saw that with Ferguson and others. 

[VanillaBeanne]

See that is what bugs me about the oj verdict. People think the black jurors would have acquitted anyway. i know one juror basically stated this but there were 11 others, 8 of them black and I believe they were acting in good faith.

I don't get your speculation point. Both sides speculated as to what happened, and provided evidence to support their speculations.

I think oj did it but the verdict was reasonable because the defense raised reasonable doubt based on the specifics of the case, and not on systemic racism in the LAPD.

Edited February 3, 2016 by VanillaBeanne

[Constantinople]

I wish FX would get over itself with its 80 minute episodes.

 

UO, but I thought this was rather dull.  Perhaps because we all know the outcome -- though technically speaking, that's a spoiler within the context of this thread -- or perhaps I can't stand anything related to the Kardashians.  But it was nice to see Cheryl Ladd.

[FuriousStyles]

I was about 7 when the murders happened, so obviously that trial wasnt high on my tv viewing priority list. But I do remember my parents being glued to the tv. Im very much into true crime stories/documentaries so over the years I've come to familiarize myself with most of the major players in this. I think just on sheer looks, the casting of Darden, Clark, and Cochran are spot on. And even Robert Kardashian a little bit. But, like most im having a hard time with Gooding Jr. Most glaring is his size. The clip of him being handcuffed in the backyard was what did it. He looked so small. His borderline psychotic diatribes were annoying as hell, but I forgive it because I assume that's how OJ really acted.

I loved the 1st episode, and I believe all throughout this series im going to ask "did that really happen?". Off the bat, when the guy walking his dog saw the other dog with blood all over its paws and followed it to the crime scene. I had just assumed a friend came to look for Nicole and thats how the bodies were found. And then the polygraph test, which he failed miserably. I think its very telling his own lawyers wanted to test whether he's a lying liar who lies.

I was watching I think a Vh-1 (20 years later) special on the OJ trial, where they have bubbles pop up with random facts. I remember one of the bubbles said the US economy lost x number of millions in productivity because everyone was glued to the tv to watch the verdict. They had footage from almost every corner of the country. People in offices where the black employees were jumping and screaming and the white employees just standing there in complete shock. Im sure that was the general reaction across the country.

Edited February 3, 2016 by FuriousStyles

[suomi]

If Fuhrman planted evidence that means he decided to transport a bloody glove from Bundy to Rockingham inside his sock or his underwear, because he wasn't wearing a jacket, and he accomplished that without leaving one single trace of himself. If Fuhrman planted the glove that means he decided to pack it in his sock or his underwear at Bundy without yet knowing that he was going to Rockingham and without knowing if OJ had an alibi. Because going to Rockingham happened all of a sudden via an order from above. At Bundy, on scene, the case got transferred from Fuhrman and his partner to Lange and Vannatter because they were in the elite Robbery/Homicide detail. At the time he would've had to pack the bloody glove Fuhrman and his partner were off the case - and for all he knew OJ could account for every minute of his evening, and his girlfriend could, and his mother could, or maybe he went to a party and a dozen or five dozen or 500 people could account for every minute of his evening. But Fuhrman wanted so badly to frame OJ that he figured he would take the chance that OJ had no alibi? He found the glove behind Kato's bungalow at the same time the other officers were finding out from Arnelle in the next bungalow that OJ was in Chicago. OJ's timeline and alibi were still way up in the air as far as any of the detectives knew at that point.

 

How many on duty personnel were on scene at Bundy during the hour before Fuhrman, a detective who was asleep at home, arrived? Not how many stayed, but how many were on scene at some point? Not tracking through evidence, but on scene. All with flashlights, all observing? It was some ungodly number, like 20- something or 30-something. If even half of them saw two gloves at Bundy that is one hell of a huge conspiracy. OJ's shoeprint on the floor of the Bronco in Nicole's blood matched the shoeprints at Bundy. Did Fuhrman somehow obtain OJ's Bruno Magli shoes and plant that shoeprint as well? Fuhrman saw blood drops on OJ's floor inside his house and on his driveway. Did Fuhrman plant those as well?

[KenyaJ]

I grew up overseas and this was big even there. CNN International aired the Bronco chase live, and gave quite a bit of it's coverage towards this case. I mean, you had the channel giving coverage to the Rwandan Genocide, the ongoing war in the Balkans/former Yugoslavia...and this. It was surreal.

 

My family and I were on vacation that summer while the trial was going on. When we crossed the border between Tanzania and Kenya, we had to stop at an immigration building that felt like it was in the middle of nowhere. My family and I were the only black people in our large tour group, and all the locals hanging out in the parking lot were so excited to see black Americans in the group. They made a lot of hilarious comments to us, but the most memorable was as we were getting back on our bus to leave, and a guy yelled "Say hello to OJ!" It struck me then how global the story was, and you're right. It was completely surreal.

 

Yes Cuba doesn't look or sound like OJ at all but he was great as playing someone who was on the edge. His ranting about the lie detector test was just...wow.

 

Yep, that was the exact moment when my brain relaxed and finally allowed me to see and hear him as OJ. I loved Cuba's performance in that scene.

 

I have to ask, did the Kardashian kids REALLY attend Nicole's funeral? 

 

I was so annoyed by that mention of them, but yeah, there are clips of them at the funeral on YouTube. H/T to this article: Did All That Stuff in Episode One 'The People v. O.J. Simpson' Really Happen?

 

Anyway, I'm all in on this series. I was in college when the murders and the trial happened, and I remember a lot of it like it was yesterday, but I'm still completely fascinated by the show and I can't wait to watch it unfold.

[suomi]

re the jury: along with everyone else they knew, barring major unforeseen circumstances, which day deliberations would begin. Four jurors (at least four) packed their luggage that morning before they left the hotel to go to court because they knew they would be going home. Much was made of the fact that the jury deliberated for only four hours. Actually it was more like 30 minutes. After a nine-month trial. Don't get me started with the jury.

[toodles]

I enjoyed it although John Travolta is kind of a caricature. I'll keep watching.

Copy that.

[Guest]

Cheesy production style, bad hair/makeup, and I'm distracted by how much Gooding doesn't look or sound like OJ. It's possible to do the 1990s without making the actors look like they're on SNL. Travolta's one facial expression is killing me. Did he only have one photo of Shapiro in his research or is he doing an impression of a bald eagle?

OMG. All of this. This is bad, bad, bad, bad, bad. Like a Lifetime movie but with a higher-quality talent pool slumming it for the paycheck.

 

And what of that rotted. dollar-store wig they put on top of the head of the guy who's playing Kato Kaelin? The fuck?

 

 

 

I thought I was in for the long haul with this until the funeral scene and I heard the completely unnecessary "Kourtney, Khloe stop running" from the Evil Kris Jenner character and I was out.

There was absolutely no reason for that line to be in there. This is the story about the murder of 2 human beings, why the hell did they have to add that stupid line about that disgusting family?

A thousand times this. Using all the girls names seemed more like a wink-and-nod shout out some younger viewers in an effort to make them feel some connection with events that occurred before they were born. The other thing -- that sack of shit Robert Kardashian. He was all pro-OJ to anyone who put a camera in front of this face before the tide of public opinion turned after the trial ended. Then he couldn't be interviewed enough to let everyone know that he know thought OJ was guilty. Fuck all those Kardashians. Disgusting opportunists.

 

Won't be back for more of this. 

Edited February 3, 2016 by Guest

[lovinbob]

Question to my fellow women out there - have you ever in your life filled your entire house with lit candles to take a bath? Am I missing out on something?

I had the same question but I also took it as a suggestion that Nicole had been setting the stage for a romantic encounter with Ron. I don't know if it was ever determined that there was a previously existing sexual relationship between the two but I'd always heard that idea posited.

 

Cuba is doing a great job but I still think his size and voice are an uphill battle for this portrayal. I'm actually enjoying Travolta. I don't have any memory of Shapiro's voice, only his appearance, and Travolta is selling it for me.

 

The Kourtney/Khloe thing was superfluous. Did Kris and Faye really where hats to the funeral? Seems a little dramatic.

 

Sarah Paulson is doing great. Her terrible wig is actually better hair than Marcia Clark's real hair at the time. I like the insight into her life and, even more so, into Darden's.

[poeticlicensed]

I was on a jury a couple of years ago and we had about 100th of the evidence presented at the oj trial and it was a total slam dunk since the defense disn't even present evidence . It took us 3 hours to decide by the time we reviewed everything just to make sure we were all on the same page. Hell it took us almost 2 hours to reread and digest the jury instructions. How could they have possibly gone over the instructions and reviewed the evidence in a few hours? Clearly they didnt

Edited February 3, 2016 by poeticlicensed

[BeatrixK]

I'm in the 'CGJ not the greatest choice' for OJ in terms of resemblance...but he's doing well with the manic part.  Travolta seems to have the creepy Shapiro vibe down...but Travolta is too physically big. 

 

I worked at an ABC affiliate during the OJ trial - and this was early Interwebs...so there wasn't the kind of furor then as you'd see for Making a Murderer today...but I recall we were riveted.  In stations, you have monitors going on all the time...so we had pure live feeds not coming through the network.  Just unreal how everyone was captivated by this trial. 

 

If you want a brilliant take on the OJ trial - I highly recommend 'Dead Reckoning' by Dr. Michael Baden (The guy in HBO's Autopsy series.)  He said that the murderer could easily have been proven by one drop of blood on the back of Nichole's neck - a photograph before the crime scene people/cops/whothehellever' moved her body showed a blood drop that could only have come from someone standing over her.  But, when they turned over her body, it mixed that drop with the pool underneath her and thus, ruined it completely.

[VanillaBeanne]

I don't think Furhman framed an innocent man.

I think it's very possible he planted evidence to further the case against a guilty man. And I don't think the state should ever be allowed to put a finger on the scales. It's better to let 10 guilty men go free then convict one innocent.

For me, the defense made very credible arguments (with evidence) to (1) raise serious doubts about the racial prejudices and integrity of a key officer involved in the case and (2) raise serious concerns about the handling of the blood and other evidence, putting the competence of the lapd forensic team in play. I don't believe the state should be allowed to deprive a person of their liberty when the state behaves in this fashion.

That said, it was a travesty of universal and moral justice that Oj got off and I am ecstatic that he's in jail now.

I think people who refuse to see the real, systemic problems with the Lapd that were on display in the oj case are as myopic as those who think Oj is innocent.

I'm not trying to convince anyone but I just want to put out there that not everyone who agreed with verdict thought OJ was innocent. It's just my viewpoint. I'm not trying to make it any one else's.

Edited February 3, 2016 by VanillaBeanne

[GHScorpiosRule]

Anything I say would be superfluous, since most here have already stated what I think as well. As in how Cuba seems miscast because he doesn't have that...presence that OJ did. I had graduated from college just the year before the murders, but was in India for almost a year, and when I returned, I was hit with this case. I remember the first thing I saw on my television was OJ being a 'person of interest' in the double murders. I can still see, how he jauntily walked in that white shirt, surrounded by cameras and cops.  He didn't look weary or whatever it was Cuba was going for in the scenes the show was portraying. I recall OJ looked like he didn't have a care in the world.  And then the world exploded. I couldn't get away from the coverage. Like I stated in other forums here, every single show, entertainment, news, tabloid, was covering this. And the times I couldn't avoid it, I would see snippets of the trial, of the "friends" who were on every single show, saying the same exact thing, word for word, about OJ and Nicole's marriage.  

 

As someone who had graduated with a journalism degree, a broadcast journalism degree and a criminal justice one, I found myself so conflicted, and it totally turned me off from journalism.

 

It is just painful to look at Travolta, and at the same time, I can't help but laugh at his performance.  Vance has Cochran down pat-the way he performed for the cameras.  And it's eerie how Sterling resembles Darden.

 

I will say this. About, six years or so after the trial, Cochran came to the book store I worked at part-time for a book signing. I was surprised to discover how charming and charismatic he was in person. And also very gracious to those that stood in line to get their books signed.

 

And I'm only watching this out of morbid curiosity. I already lived through this the first time, and I still remember how it took over everything. And I lived on the East coast!  And it was totally global-even my friends and relatives in India knew about this, and they all totally called it that OJ would be found not guilty. I naively thought, that with the DNA evidence, the blood splatter, the way that Dr. Lee (that was his name, right?) explained it, NO WAY would he be found not guilty. I was also disgusted at how everyone was cheering OJ during that whole Bronco chase.

Edited February 3, 2016 by GHScorpiosRule

[VanillaBeanne]

I think Cuba Gooding is a great actor and he has the charm that OJ (pre-murders) possessed. But yeah he really doesn't look or sound like OJ, which sometimes tiok me out of certain scenes. Didn't help that I watched Jerry McGuire last month. Ten years later and Cuba's Rod Tidwell still cracks me the hell up. But unfortunately I saw a bizarro version of scrappy little Rod Tidwell a couple of times in last night''s episode.

Edited February 3, 2016 by VanillaBeanne

[Iboatedhere]

I had no idea Connie Britton was going to be in this but I recognized her hair before she took the sunglasses off.

[Duke2801]

Maharincess, on 03 Feb 2016 - 02:52 AM, said:

I know all of that,I'm just saying that we didn't need the reminder that that family is involved and to me that is all that line was.

 

Er...what? That makes no sense. Robert Kardashian was OJ's defense attorney. And like it or not, Kris was close friends with Nicole. How could there be a movie about the OJ crime/trial and not have the Kardashians involved?

[Slider]

 

I like the insight into her life and, even more so, into Darden's.

Absolutely - the insight into Darden's role is what I want to see more of next week.

[TexasGal]

Anything I say would be superfluous, since most here have already stated what I think as well. As in how Cuba seems miscast because he doesn't have that...presence that OJ did. I had graduated from college just the year before the murders, but was in India for almost a year, and when I returned, I was hit with this case. I remember the first thing I saw on my television was OJ being a 'person of interest' in the double murders. I can still see, how he jauntily walked in that white shirt, surrounded by cameras and cops.  He didn't look weary or whatever it was Cuba was going for in the scenes the show was portraying. I recall OJ looked like he didn't have a care in the world.  And then the world exploded. I couldn't get away from the coverage. Like I stated in other forums here, every single show, entertainment, news, tabloid, was covering this. And the times I couldn't avoid it, I would see snippets of the trial, of the "friends" who were on every single show, saying the same exact thing, word for word, about OJ and Nicole's marriage.  

 

As someone who had graduated with a journalism degree, a broadcast journalism degree and a criminal justice one, I found myself so conflicted, and it totally turned me off from journalism.

 

It is just painful to look at Travolta, and at the same time, I can't help but laugh at his performance.  Vance has Cochran down pat-the way he performed for the cameras.  And it's eerie how Sterling resembles Darden.

 

I will say this. About, six years or so after the trial, Cochran came to the book store I worked at part-time for a book signing. I was surprised to discover how charming and charismatic he was in person. And also very gratious to those that stood in line to get their books signed.

 

And I'm only watching this out of morbid curiosity. I already lived through this the first time, and I still remember how it took over everything. And I lived on the East coast!  And it was totally global-even my friends and relatives in India knew about this, and they all totally called it that OJ would be found not guilty. I naively thought, that with the DNA evidence, the blood splatter, the way that Dr. Lee (that was his name, right?) explained it, NO WAY would he be found not guilty. I was also disgusted at how everyone was cheering OJ during that whole Bronco chase.

You know, I think this nails the issue I had with Gooding as OJ. In the early stages of all this, he did seem like a confident guy not this distraught pill popping person we saw last night. I mean, obviously he may have been that way in private but when he was caught on camera he really wasn't.

Don't even get me started on John Travolta. Luckily you have all covered that one.

It was the summer after I graduated college when the murders happened, I was home with my family in SoCal and the media coverage was all encompassing. When the trial started I was in my first year at law school. My criminal law professor, who had worked on a number of high profile defense teams, told us from the beginning that OJ wouldn't be convicted. So we got critiques mainly of the prosecution throughout the remainder of that semester. Just one episode and I already feel more in Marcia Clark's corner than I ever did at the time. Thank god someone had that kind of passion for the victims.

[Bwill3133]

I don't think OJ was innocent but I can see how the jury found him not guilty based on reasonable doubt. I think his defense did their job. To me many blame the jury (fair) but the prosecution failed at their jobs to me. Putting Mark Furhman's racist behind on the stand was a big mistake. Especially exposing him during a time when race relations in L.A. were as volatile as they were. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

Oh and another thing. I love Bruce Greenwood, but seriously, he's portraying Garcetti as this noble, justice seeking DA, and I remember seeing the real guy in the press conferences, and he came off as smarmy and racist. Greenwood can play smarmy. Stop with the nobility. Just stop with the cops not being racist assholes, because they were.

 

I remember, when some cop who was head of the police union? I am blanking on the organization's name, but he said something so racist, it even took Oprah aback, when he and others appeared on her show. Something along the lines of it wasn't the cops' fault they were racists or something. Even my jaw dropped.  Why it did, I don't know. But it showed just how pervasive racism ran throughout the system.

[numbnut]

I think Cuba Gooding Jr is an excellent actor. I also think he is totally wrong for the part of OJ. From the timbre of his voice to his physical appearance, IMHO, it's just jarring.

 

I'm not a fan of Empire, but I think Trai Byers would have been a much better fit for OJ.

[suomi]

I think for me the major issue was how the collection and handling of the blood evidence was presented by the defense. Their spin was beyond dishonest and misleading but wasn't pushed back hard enough by the DAs and ended up being acceptable because of all the racial landmines planted by the defense. Mishandled blood evidence would either degrade and no longer be of use or, if still viable, the results would be inconclusive. Improper collection, handling and storage would not, could not, and did not result in DNA "framing" an innocent person, ie: false positives. Just ask OJ's lawyers Scheck and Neufeld, who founded The Innocence Project. Oh, wait ...

 

The jury didn't care because they didn't want to care. Marcia Clark was a white bitch. Chris Darden was an Uncle Tom. Nicole was a white bitch who stole a brother from his pregnant black wife. A black man who yells at and hits his woman doesn't kill. The white LEOs who beat black Rodney King were acquitted. The white LAPD had a history of racial prejudice against blacks. Cochran needed protection so he was escorted to court by the Nation of Islam which at that time was fervently anti-white. (All of those opinions/factoids are from jurors who were willing to speak, or jury selection consultants, or then-current articles/books and radio/tv interviews/discussions). 

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

All Rise; American Crime Story: The People V. OJ Simpson Is Now In Session
Should you be seated in front of it? Let's poll the jury with Sarah D. Bunting's New Show Fact Sheet.

[lovinbob]

 

I'm not a fan of Empire, but I think Trai Byers would have been a much better fit for OJ.

Great call! Though I'd think Trai is a little young. But he does have a "hulking" quality that fits with OJ, and we certainly know he can play menacing and manic!

[OSM Mom]

When OJ was in Kim's bedroom with the gun, and Bob comes in and begs him to not shoot himself in her bedroom... Wtf dude.. You don't want him to shoot himself in your daughters bedroom, but you're OK with him screwing his gf in your daughters bed. Ick.

[VanillaBeanne]

The jury didn't care because they didn't want to care. Marcia Clark was a white bitch. Chris Darden was an Uncle Tom. Nicole was a white bitch who stole a brother from his pregnant black wife. A black man who yells at and hits his woman doesn't kill. The white LEOs who beat black Rodney King were acquitted. The white LAPD had a history of racial prejudice against blacks. Cochran needed protection so he was escorted to court by the Nation of Islam which at that time was fervently anti-white. (All of those opinions/factoids are from jurors who were willing to speak, or jury selection consultants, or then-current articles/books and radio/tv interviews/discussions).

.

I would actually agree with this if you said "some of the jurors" or even "many of the jurors" instead of the entire jury. There were 2 whites who voted to acquit. One of the white jurors, a woman, thought OJ was guilty but thought there wasn't enough evidence and thought furman planted the glove. Don't you think it's possible at least some of the 9 black jurors might have felt the same way as that white woman juror, and not all of the black jurors were motivated by their racism.

And I just can't help but point out that many who say racism was not a relevant factor in the OJ trial as it pertains to the actions of the LAPD will cite racism as the only factor as it pertains to the decision of the jury.

Edited February 3, 2016 by VanillaBeanne

[GHScorpiosRule]

I think the jury in the criminal case were idiots. I said it in the other thread, about the OJ deposition, that the only thing I recall, when Oprah had them on her show, the jury forwoman, stated that for the kind of murder committed, with all that blood, they thought, if OJ was guilty, then "where was all da blood?" She kept saying that over and over again. Like, he had to be drenched in their blood if he did it. And since he wasn't, and they only found drops of it in his car, on the door handle, he didn't do it. Maybe the science of it was too complicated. If that was the case, then they should have damned well taken more than a half hour to reach their decision.

 

I mean, I was on a jury once-a drug case, that seemed a slam dunk for the prosecution, a three day trial, that took us a whole week to make a decision. And this case? Considering all that had to be considered? I think their minds were already made up before the trial even started.

 

And I had to laugh when I saw who was playing Nicole's sister! My mind immediately thought: "It's Jordana Brewster Skeletor from Dallas 2.0"!!  I'm really interested to see who play the Goldmans. Especially Ron's father. I found him so fascinating.

Edited February 3, 2016 by GHScorpiosRule

[AndySmith]

To me many blame the jury (fair) but the prosecution failed at their jobs to me. Putting Mark Furhman's racist behind on the stand was a big mistake. Especially exposing him during a time when race relations in L.A. were as volatile as they were.

 

The defense were also better at showmanship and quippy catchphrases. If the gloves don't fit...

[toodles]

A very interesting take on the case is Dominic Dunn' s book called the Another City, Not My Own. It's fictionalized, but barely. I know this series is based on different source material, but there is so much detail about celebrity and the la culture during that time in his book.

I like true crime stories and I find this one endlessly fascinating. I've been waiting for this show since the ads started last fall. So yeah, I'm all in.

[Anela]

Question to my fellow women out there - have you ever in your life filled your entire house with lit candles to take a bath? Am I missing out on something?

Not even in the bathroom alone. I light one or two in the living room or dining room occasionally, but have to keep an eye on them because of the animals. 

 

I was 19 when the murders happened, and OJ was arrested. I can't believe I've forgotten as much as I have, because it doesn't seem like that long ago. I remember the chase, and watching it with my sister and parents, and watching the part of the trial that aired on the three basic channels we had at the time. I think the full trial aired on cable. 

I was really distracted by John Travolta's face, as well. Whatever he's doing to it, he needs to stop. 

[rallymantis]

I'm all in for this whole thing.  I was riveted.  It brought me back to those months, like a yank on a bungee cord.

 

But this is making me nuts...someone help... I know I've seen the limo driver in something else, but I couldn't find him in the IMDb cast list.  Anybody got a clue?

[RemoteControlFreak]

The fact that furhman admitted to planting evidence to bolster his case on tape was very damning, IMO. The fact that he was the only one that saw the blood evidence on ojs car and the glove could be due to his superior detective skills (skills he showed he indeed had later through his detective work in the moxley trial) but it could also be due to him convincing himself oj was guilty (rightly so) and helping to make case by planting evidence. Both theories are plausible to me.

This did not happen. Fuhrman never admitted to planting evidence. 

Question to my fellow women out there - have you ever in your life filled your entire house with lit candles to take a bath? Am I missing out on something?

Not the entire house but multiple candles in the bathroom.  Was, literally, Nicole's entire house filled with lit candles?

[RemoteControlFreak]

Well, we are only a few minutes in and already the errors are bugging me.  Kato was outside investigating the "bumps" when OJ's limo first arrived, and when OJ came out.  Personally, I think that's significant, actually everything that happened with Kato that night was significant, since OJ set him up to be his alibi.

What was shown in episode 1 is accurate, I believe.  The info about Kato going out to check on the bumps came out  later when he testified during Simpson's criminal trial. The police did wake him up when they came to Rockingham to try to find Simpson.