S03.E12: The Vehm

[Tara Ariano]

A rare medieval device is used in a murder, prompting Red to warn the task force that a lethal vigilante group from the Middle Ages is now in operation. Meanwhile, Liz receives startling news and cautiously plans her next move.

[AimingforYoko]

In case anybody wondered, Pope Francis cleaning up the Vatican Bank is a real thing.

Apparently, Red's running out of fucks to give. He didn't even try to deny that taking out the Cardinal and The Vehm was in his own interest.

I'm already bored with the Red-Tom-Liz-FutureKeen melodrama.

[ottoDbusdriver]

The Vehm was more like The Meh.  I was just bored.  

 

At least Blonde Lizzie is gone -- and she seems to have recovered from the asskicking she got at the end of last episode rather quickly.

 

Lizzie is already looking at adoption options.  Why is she even considering delivering the baby ?  Because of her high moral convictions -- not our Lizzie.

 

There are other options -- and I'm pretty sure Red knows someone that could help out with this.  This is just turning so soap opera -- next there will be the suspense of who the baby daddy is.  Tom ?  Red ? Karakurt ? The Harbormaster ? Aram ?  Dembe ? Ressler ?  The Director ?  My money is on Luthor Braxton.

[Athena5217]

I know the Vehm was a real thing a long time ago, but couldn't the writers hav picked a name that doesn't rhyme with "phlegm?"

Does Raymond pick massage therapists based on smell? Sometimes he tries too hard to be delightfully quirky.

[LittleIggy]

I don't like Tom, but if he is the father, he has a legal right to that baby. Liz can't give it up for adoption without his consent.

I love Aram to pieces! He is so adorable.

[Free]

Lizzie is already looking at adoption options.  Why is she even considering delivering the baby ?  Because of her high moral convictions -- not our Lizzie.

 

Yup, whine about putting the baby in danger to Red and Tom when she herself shot a guy and was on the run recently.

 

Apparently, Red's running out of fucks to give. He didn't even try to deny that taking out the Cardinal and The Vehm was in his own interest.

I'm already bored with the Red-Tom-Liz-FutureKeen melodrama.

 

I can't blame Red for being bored of this melodrama being played out.

[forum4idiots]

highlight of the show...dembe saying "that's enough"....

[urusai]

LOL!  Samar's "Nothing personal but you sucked in bed." to Ressler was soo hilarious.  

[steelyis]

I don't like Tom, but if he is the father, he has a legal right to that baby. Liz can't give it up for adoption without his consent.

 

 

I guess Liz could use Red's money and connections to put the baby up for adoption illegally.

 

Whatever her plans are Liz's obstinate and delusional attitude about the adoption is irritating. It's disappointing because she hasn't been irritating me this season and I was actually starting to tolerate her. Now I'm back to disliking her again.

[dwmarch]

I'm surprised no one else has mentioned this yet: on the bottom of Lizzie's list of cons was "Can barely take care of myself". Also, no friends. Like, none.

 

I liked the across the hall neighbor and I was hoping she wasn't some nefarious plant but as it turns out she's just an obstacle for Red to get rid of.

 

Speaking of which, I loved that Red tracked down and murdered the guy who beat Lizzie up. But how did he find this guy in the first place?

 

The clue that tipped the case was nonsense. The Vehm are murdering people using molten lead. But before they pour it on someone's face they paint it a different color? I suppose I can buy that religious extremists might want to paint something the color of vengeance but it seemed like a pretty weak way for the FBI to figure out where their hideout was.

 

Once again we see the low-budget FBI in action. Ressler and Navabi clear out Vehm central by themselves. No backup from an FBI SWAT team. No local PD. Hell, if they had even thought to bring along a camera crew from COPS they would have had enough light to prevent themselves from getting beaten up!

 

The humor in this episode was much better than some of the ham-fisted attempts of previous episodes. Tom changing Lizzie's question marks to exclamation points was cute and Navabi's "You sucked in bed" to Ressler was exactly what I'd expect her to say.

 

The dog is still alive and I think it even has a name now! Where it came from and how it got there is a mystery but at least it still exists. Lizzie had a perfectly timed "What's this?" when she was in the dog's company. I know you don't know what it is or what it does, but that's your fucking dog, Liz. Good luck with the baby.

[Yokosmom]

At least Blonde Lizzie is gone -- and she seems to have recovered from the asskicking she got at the end of last episode rather quickly.

 

I think Lizzie looks so much better as a blond, so was not a fan of her going back to her natural color.

 

Is it unrealistic to think that she'll make it through the next 6 months or so unscathed? Yes.  However, I think that she really wants the baby and having it, but letting it go on to (hopefully) safer parents probably seems like a good compromise.

 

I notice that despite all of Red's offers to help, he hasn't ever suggested that he could make Lizzie disappear with a new identity where she could start life anew.  Seems like that is what he'd do if he really cared about her.  I think that he'd still have an in at the FBI without her--not quite sure why he wants her around.  I mean, he SEEMS to genuinely care about her, but he's been using her since day one.

 

Red was pretty sadistic in the scene where he made the couple play and sing.  I'm glad that Dembe called him on it.

[tljgator]

LOL!  Samar's "Nothing personal but you sucked in bed." to Ressler was soo hilarious.  

I actually said "HA!" out loud -- hopefully the neighbors were also watching and amused, lol.

[Chaos Theory]

Although the The Vehm and the ultimate outcome was kind of boring and stupid I really enjoyed the interpersonal relationships between the core group. That's the reason I watch anywho.

The more I watch the more I realize Aram is a good man and Ressler is kind of an ass. I loved Navabi's "You sucked in bed" to him.

It's weird when Blonde Lizzie stopped being Blonde Lizzie it took me a second to remember that was her natural hair color. It kinda freaked me out.

I like Tom and Lizzie together. What I like is that they give off heat but they can't possibly work in the long turn. They are like two mirrors facing each other. They reflect what each other wants most. Plus Red is essentially right. Danger Will Robinson!!!!

Edited January 29, 2016 by Chaos Theory

[Primetimer]

Eunuchs, pedophiles, adoption...man, this episode of The Blacklist has everything!

Read the story

[AConspiracy]

It seemed like Samar firmly put Aram in the friendzone -

[Chaos Theory]

It seemed like Samar firmly put Aram in the friendzone -

And we all know how good of a friend Aram is.

It might be a good thing though. The last thing we need is for this show to turn into a soap opera. With Lizzie's pregnancy we are already going to have to deal with a season of Tom/Lizzie/Red triangle mayhem so the last thing the show needs is a 2nd triangle added to the mix.

Edited January 29, 2016 by Chaos Theory

[NateCon]

Samar's "you sucked in bed" would have been funnier if it hadn't been in response to her pride being hurt. Ressler was up front with her and she was embarrassed. I kind of wish she'd said it to him in another context as I love Samar, and petulance isn't something she displays usually.

[saber5055]

I thought the biggest moment of this episode was Tom bringing in ANOTHER FREAKING DOG! and Lizzie not giving a care that it was there, not even a "Hello, dog, what's your name?" or a head pat. I don't remember what the dog abandoned in the motel looked like, but I'm sure it wasn't a long-haired yellow one. At least Tom likes the dog.

 

I'm so disappointed in all of you here, only dwmarch mentioned the dog. Of course, in later scenes the dog was not there. I guess it's easy come, easy go for pet ownership on this show.

 

WTH was up with Red making the camping couple sing? Did "Michael, Row The Boat Ashore" have something to do with anything? Were the actors a singing duo IRL that I didn't recognize? Red cooking a brat and then Dembe pulls it off the stick with his bare hands (and doesn't eat it) ... it was all so weird. Maybe it was a homage to some show I don't watch.

 

This baby-moma drama is going to lose me this season, if it keeps up. And that must be one sound-proof apartment if Lizzie has never heard problem-baby Stanley screaming his head off at night. Plus I would have thought Red would have installed his look-out guys before now. 

Samar's "Nothing personal but you sucked in bed." to Ressler was soo hilarious.

That confused me since telling someone they suck at anything IS personal. So, to quote PeeWee Herman: "I'm rubber, you're glue. Whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you." Back at ya, Samar, it takes two to be rotten in bed.

 

According to Spader, who was on Seth Meyer's show last night, Blacklist has been renewed for season four. So, buckle up guys, we're in for another season of Lizzie et. al.

 

ETA:

And we all know how good of a friend Aram is.

 

Yes, Aram and Cooper was a good scene. But can anyone tell me who sent Cooper those white roses? I couldn't read the card. But good to know he's ditching that nagging wife of his. Now he's free to do ... whatever! But again, FBI salaries are so crummy, no one can afford an apartment? He should quit and hire on as a consultant. It worked for Lizzie's finances.

Edited January 29, 2016 by saber5055

[Dowel Jones]

When I first saw the episode title I thought "The Vohm"? Please, God, no.  But instead, we get some offshoot of The Following. 

 

TV trope I hate:  Experienced gunslingers like Reddington using three shots at close range to kill the guy, when one would do just fine.  The other reaction I had was that this just occurred in a small, enclosed (presumably soundproofed) room.  Reddington then says to Dembe "Make a call from the car".  Dembe: "I can't hear a fucking thing.  You just fired a large caliber gun next to me."

 

Why is it that the FBI, with all its resources, quarters its personnel in an obviously dark, poorly heated/ventilated warehouse that isn't really all that secret?  Where do they park their cars after the commute?

 

 

highlight of the show...dembe saying "that's enough"....

 

Dembe lasted longer than I would have at the campfire scene.  To borrow from Major League:  I hate that fucking song. 

 

Second place highlight:  Red:  "Stop me if you've heard this one.  A priest, a eunuch, and a pedophile go into a bar..."  

Third place:  "So you think convicted felons should be allowed to carry guns?"  Red: "All the ones I know, do."

[saber5055]

"So you think convicted felons should be allowed to carry guns?"  Red: "All the ones I know, do."

My favorite line of the evening! Although it is in no way funny. More to the truth IRL, too.

 

My thinking is that Aram should be fired for jacking with Ressler's report to glow up Navibi (or whatever her name is) to get her rehired. There is just so much wrong with that. I wish Ressler would get her re-canned. Then she can take her pouty high-school "you're bad in bed" elsewhere.

TV trope I hate:  Experienced gunslingers like Reddington using three shots at close range to kill the guy, when one would do just fine.  The other reaction I had was that this just occurred in a small, enclosed (presumably soundproofed) room.  Reddington then says to Dembe "Make a call from the car".  Dembe: "I can't hear a fucking thing.  You just fired a large caliber gun next to me."

My thinking is Red might have learned how to kill a guy by example of the Chicago PD, which IRL will shoot a guy with 16 bullets for just walking down the street. I can forgive Red using a modest three bullets.

 

Good point about Dembe needing ear protection though. 

Edited January 29, 2016 by saber5055

[AbsoluteShower]

 

WTH was up with Red making the camping couple sing? Did "Michael, Row The Boat Ashore" have something to do with anything? Were the actors a singing duo IRL that I didn't recognize? Red cooking a brat and then Dembe pulls it off the stick with his bare hands (and doesn't eat it) ... it was all so weird. Maybe it was a homage to some show I don't watch.

The way he was waving that big fork around I thought that one of the two things he wanted from that couple was one of their eyeballs...

 

WTH was up with Red making the camping couple sing? Did "Michael, Row The Boat Ashore" have something to do with anything? Were theactors a singing duo IRL that I didn't recognize? Red cooking a brat and then Dembe pulls it off the stick with his bare hands (and doesn't eat it) ... it was all so weird. Maybe it was a homage to some show I don't watch.

 

ETA:Yes, Aram and Cooper was a good scene. But can anyone tell me who sent Cooper those white roses? I couldn't read the card. But good to know he's ditching that nagging wife of his. Now he's free to do ... whatever! But again, FBI salaries are so crummy, no one can afford an apartment? He should quit and hire on as a consultant. It worked for Lizzie's finances.

Also, if you're a big time money launderer on the run from a bunch of sadistic eunuchs who want to burn your insides out with molten lead, what's the first thing you pack? That's right - your guitar!

 

The flowers were from Coopers wife.

[slowpoked]

I hated that they softened up Tom. The man is a badass, now that he has taken his glasses off for good. Take advantage of it!!!

 But how did he find this guy in the first place?

C'mon, this is Red! He's all-knowing and omnipresent. The guy was already dead when he took his first lick against Lizzie.

 

 

Samar's "you sucked in bed" would have been funnier if it hadn't been in response to her pride being hurt. Ressler was up front with her and she was embarrassed. I kind of wish she'd said it to him in another context as I love Samar, and petulance isn't something she displays usually.

Yeah, maybe it didn't have that much punch after what Ressler just told her, but I still like it because it took down Ressler a peg or two. No man ever wants to hear they're bad in bed, in whatever circumstance it may be, whether true or not. And I don't like Ressler and his high morals and self-righteousness. So high-five, Samar!

[Sparger Springs]

You know Liz is going to keep that baby and Red will hire super nanny for it. We never have to see the damn kid once its born.

[Risky Librarian]

It occurred to me that when Megan Boone has to do a lot of heavy emoting, they do an awful lot of super tight shots at weird angles. I guess that's so that we'll look at her pores or something instead of noticing that every facial expression is a variation on a theme of constipation. You don't fool me, show!

 

I dunno, for once I would like to see a protagonist, when faced with the fact that their life has been irrevocably changed (at least openly; Liz's life was never what she thought it was at any point), they just lean into it. Save the tortured anguish, Liz. Just go all in on the fact that you are part of a shady world now. Instead of flailing impotently against it, learn everything you can, and then make that shit work for you. More fun for all of us that way, and you're much calmer. She's way more relaxed and interesting to watch when she allows herself to go with the flow. 

 

That said, Red was particularly sadistic this week. I kind of liked it. Not in the "oh yeah Daddy" kind of way, mind you, just in the sense that perhaps he's showing a bit of strain beneath his command. At least, that's what I hope I'm seeing. 

 

ETA:

Yes, Aram and Cooper was a good scene. But can anyone tell me who sent Cooper those white roses? I couldn't read the card. But good to know he's ditching that nagging wife of his. Now he's free to do ... whatever! But again, FBI salaries are so crummy, no one can afford an apartment? He should quit and hire on as a consultant. It worked for Lizzie's finances.

 

The flowers were "I'm sorry" flowers from his wife. It wasn't that he couldn't afford an apartment, he just hadn't found a place yet. I mean, if you're looking for a place, you might as well find something you like as opposed to simply taking whatever as an emergency flight kind of thing. 

 

I just enjoy Aram more every week. He's underused, but whatever time he does get, he maximizes. He's an actual nice guy instead of an irritating Nice Guy. He and Ressler present an interesting contrast. Aram is a good friend, and listener, incredibly loyal, and much better with people than he seems on the surface. Ressler is so busy being a Boy Scout that it makes him a ridiculous blind asshole sometimes. They're both good guys, but with Ressler it's almost a liability half the time.

Edited January 29, 2016 by Risky Librarian

[saber5055]

Yeah, maybe it didn't have that much punch after what Ressler just told her, but I still like it because it took down Ressler a peg or two. No man ever wants to hear they're bad in bed, in whatever circumstance it may be, whether true or not.

 

I'll volunteer to give Ressler a test run, just to see if he needs to be taken down any pegs. But from the look he gave her after that high-school comment, I'm guessing he's pretty secure in his manhood.

 

Although like I said, I'll take one for the team to discover if that is indeed the case.

 

And yeah, what's up with Badass Tom all of a sudden longing to return to a high-school teacher? Just NO! to that!

The flowers were "I'm sorry" flowers from his wife. It wasn't that he couldn't afford an apartment, he just hadn't found a place yet. I mean, if you're looking for a place, you might as well find something you like as opposed to simply taking whatever as an emergency flight kind of thing.

 

Thanks Risky. I was thinking white roses mean something sinister, like a death threat. But I looked it up, and they just mean "new beginning" or something similar. The way Cooper discounted them, I thought they were from one of the weekly villains. But now I understand why he's sleeping in the office. But what did wife do to make her send flowers and a sorry card? It wasn't her fault that cabin got shot up.

Edited January 29, 2016 by saber5055

[Risky Librarian]

Thanks Risky. I was thinking white roses mean something sinister, like a death threat. But I looked it up, and they just mean "new beginning" or something similar. The way Cooper discounted them, I thought they were from one of the weekly villains. But now I understand why he's sleeping in the office. But what did wife do to make her send flowers and a sorry card? It wasn't her fault that cabin got shot up.

 

While they were dragging Karakurt all over the countryside, Mrs. Cooper confessed that she'd been having an affair. The cabin was where she was having all the clandestine sexytimes, which is why it came up as a location for a hideout (it was totally off the grid, which is useful when your hubby is in the FBI and you want to bang a neighbor, I suppose.) I guess that was the one thing he couldn't forgive. Which I get on one hand. Infidelity is awful. But on the other hand, when your wife is willing to leak classified documents and risk prison to save your life, at least go to marriage counseling, yo.

Edited January 29, 2016 by Risky Librarian

[slowpoked]

 

 

I just enjoy Aram more every week. He's underused, but whatever time he does get, he maximizes. He's an actual nice guy instead of an irritating Nice Guy. He and Ressler present an interesting contrast. Aram is a good friend, and listener, incredibly loyal, and much better with people than he seems on the surface. Ressler is so busy being a Boy Scout that it makes him a ridiculous blind asshole sometimes. They're both good guys, but with Ressler it's almost a liability half the time.

That's a nice explanation. Aram's nice guy comes from the heart, a more sincere place IMO. He's a good guy by personality. In contrast, Ressler's nice guy comes from his head, like how he was taught between good and bad. Ressler is a good guy by principles instead.

[saber5055]

While they were dragging Karakurt all over the countryside, Mrs. Cooper confessed that she'd been having an affair.

 

Oh, wow, I totally put that out of my head. Thanks, Risky, for reminding me. Now I'm back in the swing of this show!

[Rosebud1970]

Color me confused.

 

So, the party clown was a pedophile for real, then? Because with that beater he was driving, he didn't look like much of a money launderer. At least, not a very successful one.

 

Seems to me that the interview with the daughter confirmed that he was a pedo.  How did the wayward Cardinal get the party clown mixed up in his merry band of money-laundering criminals, then?

 

Plot hole spotting,

[milkyaqua]

I haven't been able to watch this show in a few episodes so thank you for this forum.

 

Apparently, I'm really not missing much and also, not looking forward to Lizzie as a possible mom.  I mean, worst idea ever.

[paigow]

if you're looking for a place, you might as well find something you like as opposed to simply taking whatever as an emergency flight kind of thing...

Red should give Cooper a "Container Condo"

[AbsoluteShower]

Red should give Cooper a "Container Condo"

Those things are plush! That, or he could give him the house that Lizzie turned down...

[Danielg342]

I'm of the conviction that this show is horrible at writing personal dramas. It seems like The Blacklist's idea of "personal drama" is Red telling Lizzie that "X is a really bad dude, you should stay away" with Lizzie telling him "you ruin my life! You're the bad dude!" before stomping out of the room in a huff. Nothing else happens- just a whole bunch of talk.

 

Then we find out episodes later that Red, as always, was right.

 

Perhaps, with the Red and Tom rivalry for Lizzie's affections might end up differently because the writers will think that makes them "clever", but the truth is none of it is at all interesting and the writers have done a horrible job with their perspectives. Obviously the writers seem to want us to side with Red over Tom, but the truth is, both guys are shady people who have ruined Lizzie's life and make tons of exhortations to her to "stay behind and not run away" without ever proving why that needs to be done.

 

It sounds like manipulation...which we all know is a valuable tool in the abuser's tool book. Which is a very unsettling thought, since Lizzie appears to only function as a character behind the abusive whims of two other characters.

 

Now, it does not appear like the writers intend for me to feel this way, and kudos to James Spader and Ryan Eggold for giving warmth and energy to roles where they are largely absent in the writing.

 

However, acting can only go so far, because, at the end of the day, characters who don't do anything don't show or prove anything. The writers can make Red tell Lizzie all he wants that she'll be unsafe without him- but without me seeing why on screen, it falls flat.

 

(No, Red saving her from The Cabal doesn't count- that was a total team effort, and one where Tom and Red had mutual goals)

 

Same thing with Tom- if Lizzie is really going to be better with him, then the show should at least show some positives with Lizzie interacting with Tom.

 

What's missing is that there are no angles here, no sense that Lizzie really needs either Red or Tom- they both seem to just crave her, and both try so desperately to bring her into their orbit...and Lizzie refuses. Constantly.

 

It's irritating, frankly.

 

Sure, there's this whole stuff about "the abused rarely leave the abuser", which is much truer than many people give it credit for...but, in an abusive relationship, many times the abused has so much invested in the relationship that it's hard to leave, usually because the abuser has taken over so much of the abused's life that the abused still "needs" the abuser in some way. There's Lizzie's upcoming baby, sure, but the writers didn't plan for that- Megan Boone got pregnant and the writers were opportunistic.

 

Or they were supposed to be- which highlights the other problem with Lizzie's relationship with Tom and Red: if the character is supposed to feel so attached to both that the thought of her leaving one eats her up inside, the writers have failed to show any of that. Lizzie blows off Red over the slightest of provocations, and, tonight, Lizzie immediately came up with the adoption idea to thwart Tom's control.

 

In other words, Lizzie clearly shows she's not beholden to Tom, Red or anyone else for that matter- she does what she wants. So why she doesn't just get on a plane and fly to Vanuatu I'll never understand.

 

(Side note- I was extremely upset that Zoe was taken out. Lizzie really could use a friend who's not a part of her mess to help her through it- Zoe was perfect for that role and the show whiffed, just so Red could show her that he has to obsessively watch her at all times. You know Red, if you truly want to protect her, you might want to listen to her and let her make her own decisions for a change instead of "deciding what's best for her all the time".)

 

Of course, I haven't touched upon the Samar/Ressler/Aram fiasco...admittedly that's a bit better done in that we at least know where Ressler and Aram stand- Ressler doubts Samar's loyalties while Aram is still deeply in love with her. On a better written and planned show, we at least have a starting point for the conflict in that storyline...but none of those guys are "main" characters, since it's all about Lizzie and Red, so at best we'll get a drama that is glossed over with some ticky-tack resolution at the end.

 

Oh yeah...there was a case. A case that was truly compelling, aided by the always welcome sight of Anthony Carrigan, who has a monopoly it seems on sly crazy dudes. True, The Vehm had a slight tinge of "Opus Dei" and Carrigan's Harland Holt reminded me a lot of Paul Bettany's character in The Da Vinci Code, but there was some nice twists and turns here, chief among them the revelation that The Vehm (which was a real organization within the Holy Roman Empire, centred in medieval Germany with a specious claim as the descendant of the Western Roman Empire) was tricked into hunting pedophiles when they were really just hunting people for Cardinal Richards' monetary gain. I also loved Red fooling Richards into throwing himself into The Vehm's clutches- that kind of "magnificent bastard" trickery is the stuff we should be seeing from Red, and it was a joy to watch.

 

So, did I love it? Well, the case was great. The personal drama was horrible.

 

So...C-. Sounds about right.

[fivestone]

Lizzie is already looking at adoption options.  Why is she even considering delivering the baby ?  Because of her high moral convictions -- not our Lizzie.

 

Well, Megan Boone is actually pregnant, so since they only went with the pregnancy angle to accommodate her pregnancy, if Megan Boone remains pregnant, so will Lizzie.

 

Yeah, maybe it didn't have that much punch after what Ressler just told her, but I still like it because it took down Ressler a peg or two. No man ever wants to hear they're bad in bed, in whatever circumstance it may be, whether true or not. And I don't like Ressler and his high morals and self-righteousness. So high-five, Samar!

 

Yeah, I'm not down with Ressler's self-righteousness either, because he's hypocritical about it. It was OK for him to keep his job when he was a pill junkie, but no, of course nobody else deserves a second chance. As much as I don't like him, though, the show needs him to provide something or other, so I GUESS he can stay.

[ottoDbusdriver]

Well, Megan Boone is actually pregnant, so since they only went with the pregnancy angle to accommodate her pregnancy, if Megan Boone remains pregnant, so will Lizzie.

 

I did know about Megan Boone's pregnancy, but what I was getting at is that her decision to have the baby only to give it up for adoption seems out of character for Lizzie.  It's not like she considers "life" to be sacred -- Lizzie's already killed a couple of guys and doesn't even appear to feel guilty about that.  And she hasn't really demonstrated any strong religious convictions in 2 and a half seasons of the show.

 

When Lizzie entered the apartment and found Tom pining over the ultrasound photo of the child they were going to adopt, Lizzie never even mentioned the dog sitting right next to Tom.  And then the dog up and disappeared in the middle of that scene never to be seen again.  When Red dropped off the new couch in the apartment the dog was no where to be seen.  And when Lizzie was at the hair salon talking to Tom about her empty apartment, Lizzie never mentioned the dog to keep her company.  So yeah, we will probably never see that dog again either.

 

And yeah, that is not the same dog as the one she had in the motel, so you would have that she would have said something -- oh look, a cute little dog, what's his name ? Where did our old dog go ? Where did this new dog come from ?

 

Lizzie: "I don't want to be naive."

Whoops -- that boat has sailed, probably back in the first episode of Season 1.

[Scout Finch]

Me: "I HATE clowns!..."No, song, I don't care about clowns needing love. They're creepy!"..."Whoa! Okay, even for me, that's way too extreme of a thing to do to a clown!"

Edited January 30, 2016 by Scout Finch

[Chaos Theory]

I did know about Megan Boone's pregnancy, but what I was getting at is that her decision to have the baby only to give it up for adoption seems out of character for Lizzie.  It's not like she considers "life" to be sacred -- Lizzie's already killed a couple of guys and doesn't even appear to feel guilty about that.  And she hasn't really demonstrated any strong religious convictions in 2 and a half seasons of the show.

 

 

 

On the other hand Lizzie and Tom spent a good portion of season one trying to adopt so brining back the show towards adoption is a clever option.  Besides why open up the abortion can of worms if you don't have to?

[ottoDbusdriver]

On the other hand Lizzie and Tom spent a good portion of season one trying to adopt so brining back the show towards adoption is a clever option.  Besides why open up the abortion can of worms if you don't have to?

 

True enough, though they did go down the religious pedophiliacs road this episode -- which is also a bit of a touchy subject.

[Chaos Theory]

True enough, though they did go down the religious pedophiliacs road this episode -- which is also a bit of a touchy subject.

This season also dealt loosely with gays and transsexuality. This show deals with touchy subjects fairly well but only on a very topical level which usually involves a brief Red Rant. This shows isn't really the place for deep meaningful conversations.

That being said possibly putting her kid up for adoption makes sense story wise. It adds long term drama. Plus the idea of adoption especially on television is one that I am all for and think shows should consider more often.

Edited January 30, 2016 by Chaos Theory

[paigow]

That being said possibly putting her kid up for adoption makes sense story wise... 

Red will get the lowest quartile of Blacklisters to apply as adoptive parents in exchange for not having their heads blown off...e.g. #793 Jack and Diane Foster

[saber5055]

It's my opinion that clown pedo was a homage to John Wayne Gacy, the most famous clown pedo known (so far) to man. 

 

I have to agree with Otto, that if Blacklist were real life, Red would have made an appointment for Lizzie in some private clinic somewhere. And big YEAH to her not even giving a care about Tom's present of a dog companion. Shows me that Lizzie is a non-caring [fill in the blank] and would be a HORRIBLE mom. 

[thuganomics85]

Wait, so that was a new dog?  I thought Tom finally brought the older one back from whatever hole he was hiding in!  Now, I don't know what to think.  Well, I know I probably shouldn't be this invested in this particular thing, but it just bugs me.

 

Speaking of Tom, thanks for giving the endgame away, buddy.  Any suspense between him and Red fighting for Liz is done for, because if your plan is to move them away, then I know Red's got this.  No way is the show going to have Liz move to another city, unless they find some convoluted way to have Red and the entire FBI follow suite.  So, now I know that your plan is going to fail. Thanks again, Tom!

 

The Vehm was just your typical nutty cult, headed by a corrupt cardinal and also featured Gotham's Victor Zssaz.  Moving on...

 

Not surprised it was Amir who wrote that recommendation, instead of Ressler.  Ressler is way too black and white to think Samar should come back.  Samar's parting shot about his bedroom skills was amusing, but I didn't she really knocked him down that many pegs, because it looked like his reaction was just an amused smirk.  He really didn't seem that shaken by it.  Eh, I guess she needs whatever victories she can take.

 

Of course, Red would take out Lizzie's attacker before the first act.  Because he is Red Freaking Reddington!

 

Dembre doesn't like campfire songs!

 

Lizzie is back to being a brunette.  I still wish they would just let Megan Boone use her normal hair, but I guess they think people won't accept a short-hair woman or something?  I really have no idea what they are thinking...

[Risky Librarian]

On the other hand Lizzie and Tom spent a good portion of season one trying to adopt so brining back the show towards adoption is a clever option.  Besides why open up the abortion can of worms if you don't have to?

 

Yeah, I thought this was actually pretty in-line with what we know about Liz, and about how much time she spent longing for the full "normal life" experience, complete with child. I can't see someone who wanted so badly to be a mother going down the termination road because her life changed in such a way that it would be a devastating environment for a child now. She would likely want to make sure that her baby went to a couple that wanted a wee one as much as she did. Paying it forward in a weirdly ironic sort of way. And, as was noted upthread, it does add long-term drama. 

Edited February 1, 2016 by Risky Librarian

[Tarasme]

I'm of the conviction that this show is horrible at writing personal dramas. It seems like The Blacklist's idea of "personal drama" is Red telling Lizzie that "X is a really bad dude, you should stay away" with Lizzie telling him "you ruin my life! You're the bad dude!" before stomping out of the room in a huff. Nothing else happens- just a whole bunch of talk...

 

Now, it does not appear like the writers intend for me to feel this way, and kudos to James Spader and Ryan Eggold for giving warmth and energy to roles where they are largely absent in the writing.

 

However, acting can only go so far, because, at the end of the day, characters who don't do anything don't show or prove anything. The writers can make Red tell Lizzie all he wants that she'll be unsafe without him- but without me seeing why on screen, it falls flat.

 

(No, Red saving her from The Cabal doesn't count- that was a total team effort, and one where Tom and Red had mutual goals)

 

Same thing with Tom- if Lizzie is really going to be better with him, then the show should at least show some positives with Lizzie interacting with Tom.

 

What's missing is that there are no angles here, no sense that Lizzie really needs either Red or Tom- they both seem to just crave her, and both try so desperately to bring her into their orbit...and Lizzie refuses. Constantly....

 

In other words, Lizzie clearly shows she's not beholden to Tom, Red or anyone else for that matter- she does what she wants. So why she doesn't just get on a plane and fly to Vanuatu I'll never understand....

 

 

Of course, I haven't touched upon the Samar/Ressler/Aram fiasco...Ressler doubts Samar's loyalties while Aram is still deeply in love with her. 

 

Oh yeah...there was a case. A case that was truly compelling,... I also loved Red fooling Richards into throwing himself into The Vehm's clutches- that kind of "magnificent bastard" trickery is the stuff we should be seeing from Red, and it was a joy to watch.

 

So, did I love it? Well, the case was great. The personal drama was horrible.

 

So...C-. Sounds about right.

 

 

SO much good here Danielg342! 

 

Agreed that tBL sucks at crafting the personal stories of these characters. I think that's why so much of this season has been successful so far; the first half of season 3 was a complete blows 'em up, action/conspiracy thriller. Robert Ludlum would be proud. Now, we've settled out of action mode and are back in BL of the week w/ ensuing character drama. Rough waters ahead.

 

And, in light of Danielg342's comments, I can articulate what bothers me so much- I still don't understand Red or Tom's motivations in pursuing Lizzie. Red was in love with Lizzie's mom? Tom loves her? Is that really it? TPtB somehow manage to have Lizzie both embrace Red and Tom while simultaneously casting them aside. Quite a feat and confusing as hell. And, since I don't understand why Red and Tom are attached to begin with (though, at this point, Tom's motivations seem to have been simplified- his comments about liking their life together), I am not invested in the outcome except that I enjoy the performance of both actors and don't want either to leave my screen anytime soon (in fact, more JS and RE in the same room is a very good night of television for moi). And, with regard to either character providing some benefit to her, at least Tom makes her smile and laugh. Exclamation points!!!

 

With regard to Aram- as much as I enjoy Amir Arison's performance, I want Amar to grow the hell up already. I'm suspect of his love for Samar- I guess I don't count what we've been shown of his love as love at all. He's gotta a big ol' crush and is making stupid decisions based on that crush. I'm not impressed by Amar's warm fuzzies for Samar and wish he'd stop with the wounded puppy dog face/actions with regard to her. 

 

And the last comments go back to the fact that I think this whole show works better when the conspiracy and action are amplified. Unfortunately, because we're back on procedural ground, Red's MB trickery have been short shrifted on screen time. 

Edited February 1, 2016 by Tarasme

[saber5055]

Dembe doesn't like campfire songs!

Lizzie is back to being a brunette.  I still wish they would just let Megan Boone use her normal hair, but I guess they think people won't accept a short-hair woman or something?  I really have no idea what they are thinking...

 

Dembe puts up with a lot, but when it comes to cr*ppy singing around a bonfire, just NO!

 

That woman's hair thing is a big BIG pet peeve of mine. Women cops on every show have long, loose hair flying around and are out chasing criminals. No way can anyone see or focus with hair in their faces. The first season of Castle, I loved the woman cop having short hair. Next season and from then on, she had long hair past her shoulders, always hanging down. I like Grey's since the doctors actually put their hair in pony tails like real life. But other shows, like this one? Gotta have long hair hanging down all the time, god forbid anyone would put it in a scrunchie so they could actually SEE who they are shooting or fighting.

 

Me, I'd love to see short hair on Lizzie. In fact, that would have been a better "disguise" than the typical hoodie people on the run now use to hide their identies. A nice blond spiked do would have been cool. Or, hey, what about a wig! Now that would have been something different ... Lizzie in a wig.

[RCharter]

But Tom...seriously, do you want to marry a woman stupid enough to leave a secret list on a shared kitchen counter?  "You found my pro/con list?"  yes bitch, your brilliant plan to keep it hidden by flipping the notepad over didn't really fool me.  These are the moments that make me roll my eyes at any assertion that Lizzie is some badass, because seriously, a 9 year old would have at least put the notepad in a sock drawer, or at least the kitchen drawer.