S02.E08: 208

[Tara Ariano]

Helen is bewildered by Whitney's future plans; Helen surprises Noah with a difficult admission; Noah faces increased temptations when his fame escalates.

[Guest]

THIS show. So, one lone wolf critic from a college newspaper calls Noah's book "porn" and essentially garbage while the entirety of the literati fall all over themselves with praise?! And were there other words in Descent besides the ones Noah read aloud? Because he was expecting a Pen Faulker Award ... for that?! Stop getting high on your own supply, Noah.

I've read better written Starsky and Hutch slash porn than what the writers concocted for that assclown's book.

[Primetimer]

Noah heads back to his alma mater to remind us why he's like a lecture hall at 6 AM on Saturday -- no class. Also, Richard Schiff, attorney at law, enlists the help of Helen Solloway, baby DNA collector.

Read the story

[yourmomiseasy]

Noah seems to be willing to dip his pen in a lot of inkwells.  As shown in this episode, he seems to be okay with cheating on Allison.  I wonder if Allison was the first time he cheated on Helen and it just broke the seal or if he's been a big cheater all along.  Allison has screwed around enough that there's a who's the daddy plot, but it seems like all her dalliances have been during off periods in their relationship.  It doesn't seem like they were off when he was trying to bang Eden.

Edited November 23, 2015 by yourmomiseasy

[cardigirl]

Favorite line of the night, Whitney to Helen, "You've got maybe 5 good years left." Laughed my ass off at that as my daughter told me the same thing once.

So I loved Helen's view, but then not so much Noah's. Was almost ready to see some good stuff in Noah, but he kind of ruined it for me.

Making Helen the one to bring the DNA for the paternity test. I no like. Sigh.

Edited November 23, 2015 by cardigirl

[Irlandesa]

Maybe I've read too many overly-hyped critic-darling literary fiction but I thought what Noah read tonight was by far the "best" thing I've heard from his book and I could easily see it in many a published book.  And I could see it earning praise.

 

I really enjoyed this episode because there was so much Helen.  And as much as Noah is a jerk, as we saw after Helen went back to her hotel, I enjoyed the hell out of Noah and Helen.  Both the writing and the acting did a terrific job of transmitting the history and affection these two had.  I especially loved how Helen twisted his hand when he was going to go confront the critic.  He should have listened to her. 

 

It feels silly to watch the current scenes where they try to find out whether or not the baby is Scotty's.

Edited November 23, 2015 by Irlandesa

[ScoobieDoobs]

Crunch, crunch, munch, munch -- er, what's that sound I hear?  Posters from the thread on the last ep eating their words -- the ones who said with such assurance, insistence & certainty that Noah would never ever ever ever hook up with Eden, cuz she's just not his type at all.  Yeah, right.  To those who said that (and you know who you are), Treem probably hopes you enjoy eating your words.

 

Anyhoo, I think Treem & her writers got it totally right that Eden would stop anything from happening.  A PR chick who wants to get ahead would NEVER sleep with a client.  That would get around quick & pretty much kill her career.  Kudos on this, Treem.  Eh, and I knew all along Noah will go after any easy lay that comes his way.

 

Interesting that Whitney isn't mentioned AT ALL in Noah's POV.  Especially interesting given what she said to Cole at the end of the last ep.

 

Hey Treem, give Whitney a POV!  I know, I know, she was particularly obnoxious with Helen, especially setting up the Tindr account, but still, Julia is kinda awesome, when she isn't screechy & whiny, that is.

Edited November 23, 2015 by ScoobieDoobs

[right]

How can Noah continually come off as a giant asshole in his own POV?  He was a boorish, drunken narcissist trying to punch out a 21 year old critic.  Then to top it off he tried to screw Eden.  Yes, he really is so in love with Allison.

 

Helen's POV made Noah out to be such a wonderfully thoughtful human being.  How she can have such positive feelings about him after the way he betrayed her I'll never know.  I guess it shows that she really does still love him, there is no other explanation.

Edited November 23, 2015 by right

[HumblePi]

For all those who think Noah is a good guy and given him the benefit of the doubt...........

 

 

told ya so

 

I didn't get it why Helen picked up the pacifier and took it. Why would Helen question if Alison's baby was Noah's or not?  What reason would she have not to believe it was?

Edited November 23, 2015 by HumblePi

[RedInk]

I went into this episode actually hoping to find a redeeming quality in Noah, just to see if I could relate to his supporters. Instead, it cemented what I've thought all along: he's a garbage can. With little man syndrome. I did see the self-loathing, but that hardly makes him sympathetic to me, although I do pity him quite a bit.

Helen obviously sees the best in him, even better than he sees himself (which is true love, in my opinion), but I got a sinking feeling that they were hinting at a possible reconciliation. Just something about the way her scenes were shot in the present. I would hate that; hope I misinterpreted and I'm way off base.

And totally off-topic, but the woman who plays Eden is so familiar to me, and tonight I realized her face and mannerisms remind me so much of Debra Messing. Just me?

HumblePi, I assumed the attorney told Helen about the paternity question when she visited him in the first scene and asked her to try to get a DNA sample.

Edited November 23, 2015 by RedInk

[Irlandesa]

I didn't get it why Helen picked up the pacifier and took it. Why would Helen question if Alison's baby was Noah's or not?  What reason would she have not to believe it was?

I suspect the lawyer told Helen his suspicions and why he had them.  So when the baby dropped the pacifier, she took her opportunity. 

[jrlr]

Last week I was ready to sign off on this show, but I this ep pulled me all the way back into it.  And it was nice to be able to laugh for a change - Maura Tierney was fabulous, and I loved that scene in the bar although I don't have a clue what the 25 yr. old argument Helen and Noah talked about was about. 

. 

Cardigirl, if you don't mind sharing, I'm curious why you didn't like stealing the pacifer to get the baby's DNA because I burst out laughing when she handed it over to Gottlief.  Did I miss (which is entirely likely) something incriminating? 

 

Okay, Noah's turn.  Helen's POV made me grudgingly think that he might have a core of decency buried deep down inside, but not so much.  I've always thought that Allison was not his first affair, and he is in that same stud mode that he was when he was screwing every younger woman that walked in his direction.  I thought the scene with Eden was just weird - seems to me that she purposely waited a very long intimate time before she told him this wasn't going to happen.

 

I LOVE that Helen told Noah he was just like her father.  Too bad he can't understand that, because angrily denying it made him - for the moment - a bigger asshole than Bruce Butler. 

[ScoobieDoobs]

Honestly, as an attorney myself, I'm completely puzzled by Jon Gottlief.  From what I've seen so far, I think he's just about THE shittiest lawyer.  OK, Richard Schiff has instilled in this character an aura, a bravado & a bluster that a lawyer of his supposed stature (a big-bucks lawyer with a fancy-shmancy office & with a presumably earned rep to get all this) would absolutely have.  And yet in court, (at least what we've seen so far) he's been either unimpressive, ineffective or just a blowhard boob.

 

Oy, Gottlief's narrative of his theory of the supposed love affair between Scotty & Alison was so off-base & downright dumb, I was groaning when he was going thru it.  This guy is getting the big bucks?  Really?  Um, no.  Not Schiff's fault.  It's the way this character is written, which is not making sense.

 

Is this the first we've heard of "Bruce Butthole"?  Me likey!

 

Loved Helen asking millennials what that anagram (whatever it was) stood for.

Edited November 23, 2015 by ScoobieDoobs

[HumblePi]

HumblePi, I assumed the attorney told Helen about the paternity question when she visited him in the first scene and asked her to try to get a DNA sample.

Thank you for explaining that. I missed the first five minutes of the show tonight.

[RedInk]

Maura Tierney was fabulous, and I loved that scene in the bar although I don't have a clue what the 25 yr. old argument Helen and Noah talked about was about.

I believe he was convincing Helen to have an abortion. She defended him "We were only 19..." and he mentioned regret after seeing how beautiful the other 4 are.

[nara]

Crunch, crunch, munch, munch -- er, what's that sound I hear?  Posters from the thread on the last ep eating their words -- the ones who said with such assurance, insistence & certainty that Noah would never ever ever ever hook up with Eden, cuz she's just not his type at all.  Yeah, right.  To those who said that (and you know who you are), Treem probably hopes you enjoy eating your words.

 

Interesting that Whitney isn't mentioned AT ALL in Noah's POV.  Especially interesting given what she said to Cole at the end of the last ep.

 

I will fully admit that I was one of those people who didn't think Noah would sleep with Eden...and that I was wrong.  I will say that while watching it unfold, I fully expected it to be some sort of drunken fantasy of Noah's not something that was actually happening. However, there is no indication that it was fantasy, so he must have actually pulled that stupid move.  I also expected him to start writing after than encounter, but that didn't happen either.

 

I thought the same thing about Whitney not being in Noah's POV.  I didn't record the episode so I cannot check the chronology, but was it because he started his narrative after Whitney had gone off with Christie?  Or was Whitney right in the last episode and she simply doesn't matter that much to him?  

 

How can Noah continually come off as a giant asshole in his own POV?  He was a boorish, drunken narcissist trying to punch out a 21 year old critic.  Then to top it off he tried to screw Eden.  Yes, he really is so in love with Allison.

 

Helen's POV made Noah out to be such a wonderfully thoughtful human being.  How she can have such positive feelings about him after the way he betrayed her I'll never know.  I guess it shows that she really does still love him, there is no other explanation.

 

Helen voiced what I said in a previous episode thread--Noah really seems to hate himself.  I think that's why he always looks so bad in his own POVs.  I hope we get to understand why he dislikes himself so much.  It's interesting that Noah remembers that it is Helen who prevents him from acting on the phone number the student gave him.  She didn't even remember him getting the number, and it would be in her interest to think of him as a jerk who's cheating on his pregnant fiancee.

 

I really liked this episode.  It was the first one to make me tear up-starting from when he read from his book in Helen's POV.  I actually thought the passage was very good.  I don't know how it compares to other literature, but I found it really moving.  The relationship between Noah and Helen is fascinating.  I doubt that they will get back together, but there seems to be real affection there.  They seemed to both be very honest with each other, in both POVs--though Helen's was unsurprisingly more tender.  They know each other so well and they genuinely care about each other.  It kinda makes me wonder if Helen is guilty of Scott's death.  I can see Noah taking the heat for Helen after this episode.  Whitney is still the most likely suspect, but I can also see Noah making a sacrifice for Helen.

 

BTW, why did Whitney object to Max being called Uncle Max?  Presumably Helen's called him that since Whitney was a baby.  Does Whitney know about Helen's fling?  Please don't tell me it's possible that he made a move on Whitney!  

 

Also, why was Whitney talking about moving to NY?  Do they not already live there?  Or is it that in NY'er speak, they refer to Manhattan as NY and the other boroughs by name?

 

And I laughed when Helen threw the boots at Whitney.  It reminded me of her throwing the apple at Trevor.  It also reminded me of her character in Welcome to Mooseport who who hit her boyfriend (Ray Romano) without knowing her own strength.  Ray reacted the same way as Whitney. Made me laugh.

[racked]

Interesting that Whitney isn't mentioned AT ALL in Noah's POV.  Especially interesting given what she said to Cole at the end of the last ep.

 

Hey Treem, give Whitney a POV!  I know, I know, she was particularly obnoxious with Helen, especially setting up the Tindr account, but still, Julia is kinda awesome, when she isn't screechy & whiny, that is.

All I could think was man, poor Whitney. She's right, her dad barely registers her existence (unless she's getting in the way of what he wants). And I agree Julia is great!

Last week I was ready to sign off on this show, but I this ep pulled me all the way back into it.  And it was nice to be able to laugh for a change - Maura Tierney was fabulous, and I loved that scene in the bar although I don't have a clue what the 25 yr. old argument Helen and Noah talked about was about. 

I think Helen got pregnant at 19, and had an abortion.

Noah really is an obnoxious self centered tool. If the writers all adore and relate to him I feel sorry for their spouses.

[cardigirl]

"Cardigirl, if you don't mind sharing, I'm curious why you didn't like stealing the pacifer to get the baby's DNA because I burst out laughing when she handed it over to Gottlief. Did I miss (which is entirely likely) something incriminating? "

I didn't like it because it seemed underhanded. She did seem hesitant to do it, but I think it could be seen as a betrayal by Noah. Just seemed out if character. But she is desperate to keep Noah out of jail. I sure hope Helen didn't kill Scotty!

The 25 year old argument was about getting an abortion I think. Noah said something about being sorry for it after he met the other 4 because they were all so beautiful, and I thought he was referring to their children.

[nara]

Last week I was ready to sign off on this show, but I this ep pulled me all the way back into it.  And it was nice to be able to laugh for a change - Maura Tierney was fabulous, and I loved that scene in the bar although I don't have a clue what the 25 yr. old argument Helen and Noah talked about was about. 

. 

Cardigirl, if you don't mind sharing, I'm curious why you didn't like stealing the pacifer to get the baby's DNA because I burst out laughing when she handed it over to Gottlief.  Did I miss (which is entirely likely) something incriminating? 

 

I believe he was convincing Helen to have an abortion. She defended him "We were only 19..." and he mentioned regret after seeing how beautiful the other 4 are.

 

I actually thought he had been pressuring her to have sex and that she defended him by saying they were 19 (i.e., adults) and it was reasonable for him to expect it.  Your explanation makes more sense though, given that she was "wild" and probably sexually active.

[Blakeston]

THIS show. So, one lone wolf critic from a college newspaper calls Noah's book "porn" and essentially garbage while the entirety of the literati fall all over themselves with praise?! And were there other words in Descent besides the ones Noah read aloud? Because he was expecting a Pen Faulker Award ... for that?! Stop getting high on your own supply, Noah.

I've read better written Starsky and Hutch slash porn than what the writers concocted for that assclown's book.

After the last episode, we discussed whether we were supposed to think that Noah's book was respected by prestigious literary intellectuals, or if it was along the lines of Endless Love (which one character compared it to).

Now that we have our answer - we're expected to believe that the New Yorker loved Noah's book, and that it was on the shortlist for the PEN/Faulkner Award - I'm not buying it for a second.

(Also, based on what Sarah Treem has said in real life, I wouldn't be surprised if she thinks Endless Love is brilliant.)

[ScoobieDoobs]

I really liked Noah's description of Helen when she was young.  Sounds like she was some whack job.  Hmmm, sounds like Whitney's screeching & whining ain't nothing compared to the way Helen was.

 

Um, so Gottlief says it sounds like it's a "transactional crowd" out there (in Montauk).  Um, Okaaaaay.

[lvbalgurl]

I thought the scene with Eden was just weird - seems to me that she purposely waited a very long intimate time before she told him this wasn't going to happen.

 

Yeah, I think she pumped the breaks because she didn't want to be an ONS, not because she didn't want to fuck Noah.  She showed up at his door and then shifted their interaction into flirtation with, "Where were you all night?"  Then after spending quite a long time kissing/dry humping him, she claimed they have a long tour and stopped things.  She knows exactly what she's doing, that one.  And Noah is just the idiot assmuch to fall for it.

 

I can't believe I saw so much human decency in Noah in Helen's POV, only to have it all negated in Noah's.  Helen truly sees the best in him, and Noah sees himself at his most scummy and insecure.  Oh, and I hated the critic.  Noah is a douche but that critic was an insufferable tool.  I actually wish Noah had connected.

 

This was the first episode in which I genuinely liked Whitney.  She came across as more of a full-fledged character, instead of the spoiled teen archetype.  I also liked Noah's idea of allowing her to defer for a year and pursue a modeling career.  Again, the Noah of Helen's POV is a reasonable, decent human being who is not a half bad writer (I was surprised to find that I rather liked the passage he read).  Whereas, in his own POV, he is...Bruce Butthole.

Edited November 23, 2015 by lvbalgurl

[izabella]

Yeah, I think she pumped the breaks because she didn't want to be an ONS, not because she didn't want to fuck Noah.  She showed up at his door and then shifted their interaction into flirtation with, "Where were you all night?"  Then after spending quite a long time kissing/dry humping him, she claimed they have a long tour and stopped things.  She knows exactly what she's doing, that one.  And Noah is just the idiot assmuch to fall for it.

 

The thing about that scene is that it's from Noah's POV, and may not have gone down like that at all.  She may have come to his door with the video on her phone, but she might not have stepped foot inside.  Remember, Noah always saw Allison as the sexy aggressor, but she saw it very differently.

[HumblePi]

Since we're nearing the end of this season and I doubt there can be a third, I'll put out my predictions for the final episode now.

 

Whitney becomes a successful model OR a cheap hooker suckering in out-of-towners in Times Square.

 

Noah and Alison split up since they aren't married anyway and it's proven that Cole is the father of her baby. Alison and Cole move back in together in Montauk with their son who they never bring swimming until he's 18.

 

Noah and Helen get back together but don't remarry and their relationship is stronger than it ever was.

 

Noah writes a second book and it's so successful that he can afford to buy Bruce's house in the Hamptons since Bruce doesn't need it anymore, he's living in California with his mistress.

 

That's all.

Edited November 23, 2015 by HumblePi

[jrlr]

"Cardigirl, if you don't mind sharing, I'm curious why you didn't like stealing the pacifer to get the baby's DNA because I burst out laughing when she handed it over to Gottlief. Did I miss (which is entirely likely) something incriminating? "

I didn't like it because it seemed underhanded. She did seem hesitant to do it, but I think it could be seen as a betrayal by Noah. Just seemed out if character. But she is desperate to keep Noah out of jail. I sure hope Helen didn't kill Scotty!

The 25 year old argument was about getting an abortion I think. Noah said something about being sorry for it after he met the other 4 because they were all so beautiful, and I thought he was referring to their children.

Of course, an abortion (me smacking my forehead).  I don't mind Helen getting the DNA sample because if Noah learns he isn't the father it will shake his allegiance - such as it is - to Alison.  If it isn't his baby, then there would be no reason for him to take the rap for her, although Gottlief's "explanation" of how that could have happened was trashy-romance fanciful and not exactly convincing.   With so much emphasis on the paternity of the child, I now fully expect the father to turn out to be Noah. 

 

So Helen has had this incredible character arc while Noah's character isn't making an arc so much as veering from Jekyll to Hyde, even in his own point of view.  And that leaves Alison.  At yoga camp she seemed like she had made a lot of progress in understanding herself and making peace with the past, but now she seems like a woman who can't deal with the reality of her situation, so purposely ignores all the warning signs (and Noah is a red flag, a tornado warning and a disaster siren all rolled up into one) that would create upheaval in her situation.   Loved Helen this week, felt sorry for Alison, and - as usual - despised Noah.

 

Whitney was hysterical!  I don't know who she is, but she's a very good young actress.

[izabella]

Noah sure wasn't happy that his office had become the baby's room, and his desk had been moved out into the hall. 

[Glade]

Helen's half was definitely more enjoyable, I was wishing that Noah's would involve some other day so as not to ruin it.  Though it's pretty easy to make them meet each other in the middle.  Helen sees the best in Noah, but he doesn't see the best in himself, which is probably part of the reason behind his actions.  Not really liking himself.  Both Alison and Noah have cheated on each other, so perhaps they should just negotiate an open relationship.  But I'm not sure they're ready for 'open parentage' of their daughter.  I guess the lawyer goes after Alison first, until she tells him that Cole is actually the father, and he becomes the suspect. 

 

Martin's Crohn's must really be in remission if he can go back to wrestling without worrying about what physical impact upon his stomach could do to him.  It kind of confused me the way they kept saying that Whitney would "move to New York" and become a model.  Doesn't she already live in New York?  I guess I'm missing something about how the districts of NYC refer to each other, but is still sounded odd, as if they lived in Nebraska and were talking about some far-away place. 

 

It sounds to me like Whitney would still be really upset if she found out about Helen and Max.  And I think Noah will as well (and I assume that him finding roses and signs of a 'love-bed' in Helen's house means eventually he learned of their coupling and thus his memory includes a 'hunt for clues' as to it happening.) 

[ScoobieDoobs]

Whitney is sometimes so on-target & wicked-smart in her observations, but this wanting to be a model seems really out of character for her.  I would think she'd look down on modeling as being for shallow idiots.  Well, as Helen said, Whitney makes rash, really dumb decisions -- like chasing after Scotty, for one thing.  Er, and getting preggers by him, for another.  And puking her guts out to stay rail thin for yet another.  Ah, silly girls who think modeling is an easy gig, where they'll quickly make big money & travel all over the world, always get a rude awakening.  Pretty sharp of Helen to pick up on the Christy Turlington reference & that it had to be from someone older, with probably murky/suspicious motives.

[Rancide]

The thing about that scene is that it's from Noah's POV, and may not have gone down like that at all.  She may have come to his door with the video on her phone, but she might not have stepped foot inside.  Remember, Noah always saw Allison as the sexy aggressor, but she saw it very differently.

 

This.  I can see Eden showing up for the business-related purpose of discussing the video and self-centered hornball Noah making a gross and unwanted pass at her because, you know, he's gross and self-centered and assumes any woman who shows up at his hotel room must want to fuck him.  Particularly any woman he's attracted to.  I can also see Eden--a skilled PR professional who no doubt has tons of experience deflecting unwanted advances from gross, entitled men--turning him down with enough tact and grace ("I don't mix personal and professional") that gross Noah didn't realize that he was in fact being rejected for being, well, gross.

 

Dating back to episode 1, Noah's pretty consistently believed that any attractive woman speaking to him was coming on to him.  Allison has just been the only one stupid--or vulnerable--enough to bite.  I felt sorry for Eden.

[ScoobieDoobs]

I didn't feel sorry for Eden one bit.  I applauded her.  She realized it was a stupid move to sleep with her client.  AND she clearly understood it was an even stupider move to sleep with Noah, since he obviously revealed every single detail about what a sleazeball & liar he is in that damned book she's pushing so hard to sell.  Irony much?

Edited November 24, 2015 by ScoobieDoobs

[Anne Elk]

So can someone help me out here. I have been watching the Season 2 eps in real time and I just recently started trying to catch up on Season 1. I watched the pilot the other day, and during the Lockhart family dinner scene there were a couple of small children sitting at the table. Whose kids are these? Have they just been retconned out of the story?

[Rancide]

I didn't feel sorry for Eden one bit.  i applauded her.  

 

I feel sorry for any woman Noah hits on.  Rapey-overtones sleezeball.  Gross.  

[SiouxB]

Also why was Whitney talking about moving to NY?  Do they not already live there?  Or is it that in NY'er speak, they refer to Manhattan as NY and the other boroughs by name?                                                                                                                                                                                   

 

 

 

You nailed it !! They do live in New York, but in the borough of Brooklyn. That is indeed NY'er speak, whereby referring to Brooklyn, Queens, etc. by name but when you refer to Manhattan, you say New York or the city.  So yes Witney lives in Brooklyn which is part of New York and wants to move to Manhattan (a/k/a "New York")  

[jrlr]

It sounds to me like Whitney would still be really upset if she found out about Helen and Max.  And I think Noah will as well (and I assume that him finding roses and signs of a 'love-bed' in Helen's house means eventually he learned of their coupling and thus his memory includes a 'hunt for clues' as to it happening.) 

I think Whitney knows about Helen and Max because when Helen asked her why she wanted Helen to stop calling him "Uncle" Max, Whitney gave her an "As if" look that indicated that  she was well aware that Helen and Max had been together.  And in the first season when Helen and Noah went to therapy with Whitney, she said (correctly) that it was obvious that Noah was miserable, and that she thought (incorrectly) it was because Helen and Max were having an affair.  So even before the Alison-Noah affair became open knowledge, the sharp tongued Whitney had already picked up on the vibes between Max and Helen (or coming from Max at any rate). 

[truthaboutluv]

I need to watch the episode again since I watched it on a very choppy and freezing livestream last night but I got the gist. I'll likely have more to say later but for now, my only comment is "please tell me again about this great romance between Noah and Alison I'm supposed to be watching?" And so much for Noah not fucking the publicist because it would be too obvious (even though it's my understanding she seemed to stop it before it went all the way). And of course there was also some young, hot woman giving him her number.

 

It all brought to mind exactly what I've been saying about Noah since last season - the hot, young woman who came onto him at the pool from the very first episode (almost like an indication that he'd clearly had options to cheat before Alison if he wanted), then the sex-a-thon of ever changing hot, young women and let's not forget Alison's borderline panting and throwing herself at him at every single opportunity. And now of course, as the "hot writer" some woman is giving him her number and his publicist is into him as well. Honestly, part of me even suspects that the situation with the publicist didn't happen but that's just Noah's delusional desire and ego - because of course that young, attractive, very intelligent, driven young woman cannot keep things professional with Noah. Because he is just that hot. Gag...

Edited November 23, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[grumpypanda]

I'm annoyed that Helen can't seem to move on from Noah. It's ridiculous that she's even involved in his defense. I get not wanting the father of your children in jail by its not her place to consult with his attorney. By the time the trial takes place it's nearly three years since the affair began so Helen should have moved on with her life by now.

Anyway, it's interesting that Helen was shit faced drunk in Noah's POV and so composed in hers. Perhaps Noah is seeing glimpses of that wild girl that he fell in love with. I really hope that this doesn't mean that these two end of back together.

I also found it funny that Alison was only going to her five month check up. She must look like she's nine months pregnant by now. Five months seems awfully early to have the nursery completed but I guess Alison has nothing else to do.

Edited November 23, 2015 by grumpypanda

[taragel]

Since we're nearing the end of this season and I doubt there can be a third, I'll put out my predictions for the final episode now.

 

 

Treem has a narrative planned for at least 3 seasons. She's said in a previous article that the "payoff" won't happen till season 3.

 

Showtime may have different plans, but ... I think it's unlikely it won't get another season. The Globes wins for it S1 will carry a great deal of weight since SHO never gets any recognition at those things and they don't have a particularly strong development slate IMO. 

[RococoChanel]

You nailed it !! They do live in New York, but in the borough of Brooklyn. That is indeed NY'er speak, whereby referring to Brooklyn, Queens, etc. by name but when you refer to Manhattan, you say New York or the city.  So yes Witney lives in Brooklyn which is part of New York and wants to move to Manhattan (a/k/a "New York")  

 

Err... that's a little odd. I am a native NYer, and we NEVER refer to Manhattan as "New York." It's just "The City." New York to us = the five boroughs. 

 

Witney would have said "I'm going to move to the city," not "move to New York." That part took me right out of the scene and I realized that the writers got this wrong. Witney knows she already lives in NY! I've never once in my entire life heard a NYer say "New York" to other people from the city.

Edited November 23, 2015 by RococoChanel

[Constantinople]

A really bad episode for Noah

 

1. He can't handle any criticism, not even from the critic from the college newspaper.  It's pretty pathetic when, to assuage your fragile ego, your publicist has to tell you "What do you want, 100% adulation? Even Vladimir Putin settles for 98% of the vote."

 

2. He tries to punch the critic.  Not the first time we've seen issues with his temper

 

3. He whines that he didn't win the award because he's a white man.

 

4. He tries to makeout with Eden while pregnant Alison is back home.  Nor, IMO, is this the first time he thought of it since he initially started reading the shower scene becuase Eden thinks it's sexy.

 

5. He's totally oblivious to his daughter

 

6. The best insult this alleged literary genius can come-up with for his (ex) father-in-law is Bruce Butthole.

[taragel]

I can't imagine Helen ever being the "wild girl" who walked naked through the library selling candy. Unless maybe she was stoned with "Uncle Max" at the time. IDK. 

 

This was a meh episode for me. I felt they repeated the formula of "Cole still loves Allison" with a "Helen still loves Noah" POV and while I think she does still have feelings for him, of course, the anger has been so present for her (in any POV there is--hers, Noah's, Alison's etc.), that I find it a lot harder to buy that suddenly she's all respectful and admiring of what a great guy he is. I couldn't quite reconcile it. 

 

I knew from the previews last week that Noah was going to try to get it on with Eden and it was tough to bite my lip when everyone was saying he wouldn't go there last week! Lol. Such a slimeball. I did find it mildly interesting that in Helen's POV he said himself that he was having a mid-life crisis. I think that's the first time it's been said out loud? Maybe? 

[PiEatingContest]

I'm really starting to think that something is wrong with Helen in the present day scenes.  I thought Whitney's comment about how Helen only has 5-6 good years left was possible foreshadowing, and Helen looked awfully pale and drawn, especially at the gym.  If she's sick/dying that would explain her desperate need to get Noah off at any cost, even by alienating him with the whole baby DNA swipe.  I assumed that's why she was so upset when she handed over the pacifier; she knows that she will lose Noah forever, even as a friend, through that act but she's desperate.

[truthaboutluv]

Question, is this season going to be only 10 episodes like the first film?

 

So I watched the whole episode and honestly, I did not love this one as much as last week. Frankly I was a little bored at times because at this point, Noah being an egotistical douchebag is hardly surprising or even interesting anymore. I did like finding out that Witney clearly knew about Helen and Max's brief relationship. I loved her epic side-eye and look that just said to Helen, "really you're going to make me say it?" And typical teenager, she bitched about not wanting to stay with the girl and stay at the college but as soon as she meets her, she quickly develops a rapport and heads off.

 

And the "I don't want to go to college and some guy thinks I can be a model" is also so typical teenage rebellion stuff. I have to say as bratty and annoying as she can be and she certainly lacked tact, I do think in her own way she really was trying to help Helen and want something good for her. I'll admit I did crack up at the "you have 5 good years, maybe 6." I also think her pointing out Helen's parents paying for everything and taking care of Helen was a brutal truth maybe Helen needed to hear. I hate the cliche of Helen viewing herself as this old, unattractive failure after the husband dumps her for the younger woman but sadly, it's very realistic. 

 

As for Noah's segment, well what is there really even to say anymore. I love that once again Noah was his douchiest in his own POV. Helen's POV was actually very generous towards him but full ego-driven asshole came out on full display in his POV. The hits were just too numerous to count but one of my absolute favorites was his great offense at Helen comparing his behavior to her dad because he, Noah, is such this greater literary genius than "Bruce Butthole." 

[HumblePi]

You nailed it !! They do live in New York, but in the borough of Brooklyn. That is indeed NY'er speak, whereby referring to Brooklyn, Queens, etc. by name but when you refer to Manhattan, you say New York or the city.  So yes Witney lives in Brooklyn which is part of New York and wants to move to Manhattan (a/k/a "New York")  

I also thought that I heard Noah and Helen mention living in Harlem when they were getting their drunk on. It sounded as though Harlem was where they lived at the start of their marriage. And you're right, Manhattan is referred to as 'the city' or Manhattan not only by other borough NY'ers but by anyone in the tri-State area.

I'm really starting to think that something is wrong with Helen in the present day scenes.  I thought Whitney's comment about how Helen only has 5-6 good years left was possible foreshadowing, and Helen looked awfully pale and drawn, especially at the gym.  If she's sick/dying that would explain her desperate need to get Noah off at any cost, even by alienating him with the whole baby DNA swipe.  I assumed that's why she was so upset when she handed over the pacifier; she knows that she will lose Noah forever, even as a friend, through that act but she's desperate.

I can't even fathom the fact that Noah took the baby with him to the wrestling match. He's not the type of man who looks like he'd be agreeable to playing Mister Mom, even for a few hours and especially with a very small baby.

[carryanation]

Ernest Schiffbaum is awesome.

 

That is all.

[GeminiDancer]

Err... that's a little odd. I am a native NYer, and we NEVER refer to Manhattan as "New York." It's just "The City." New York to us = the five boroughs. 

 

Witney would have said "I'm going to move to the city," not "move to New York." That part took me right out of the scene and I realized that the writers got this wrong. Witney knows she already lives in NY! I've never once in my entire life heard a NYer say "New York" to other people from the city.

Werd, I thought that was jarring because I've never heard native New Yorkers say "New York" when referring to Manhattan (I certainly don't). In any case, homegirl is better off staying in Brooklyn because there's no way she's going to make any sort of money as a model to be able to sustain herself in the city.

 

Oh, Noah... Helen is right. He is a man who hates himself. He's still a major douchecanoe. His POV made him look beyond pathetic. His whole self worth is in how desirable he is to others. No wonder he claims that Alison threw herself at him. I'd love to see how Eden interacts with him after. I wonder if he really made her uncomfortable with the way he came onto her. Also, Noah: Not everyone is going to like your work no matter how much we bare our souls. That's the risk we take as artists. 

 

On a shallow note, I loved Whitney's outfit. I seriously wanted the whole ensemble. Eden is also very striking with her hair down. I didn't notice how gorgeous she was until the scene where she and Noah were walking to the bookstore.

[LuciaMia]

In this episode, it looks like Helen was one of the few adults in the room.

********

Of course Whitney wants to be a model. The girl is nothing but bone; the times Ive seen her in summer clothes . In the previous season, was there any hints that she had a eating disorder?

********

So Noah gives Helen his knit hat when she's visibly cold. But when she's about to take a long, cold walk back to her hotel, he asks for it back? A cap he could have bought for five bucks. Classy.

********

I can understand a writer, after years of isolation and doubt, would want to bask in some attention and adulation. But Noah's neediness is unquenchable.

[grumpypanda]

I also thought that I heard Noah and Helen mention living in Harlem when they were getting their drunk on. It sounded as though Harlem was where they lived at the start of their marriage. And you're right, Manhattan is referred to as 'the city' or Manhattan not only by other borough NY'ers but by anyone in the tri-State area.

I can't even fathom the fact that Noah took the baby with him to the wrestling match. He's not the type of man who looks like he'd be agreeable to playing Mister Mom, even for a few hours and especially with a very small baby.

Harlem is where the fictional characters in Noah's book live. I don't think they ever really lived there.

I thought it was kind of weird for Noah to bring the baby to the wrestling match also but they needed a way for Helen to be around the baby so I'm willing to suspend belief in other to find out who the baby's real daddy is. I hope we find out next week but I assume they're going to drag it out awhile.

[Former Nun]

Of course Whitney wants to be a model. The girl is nothing but bone; the times Ive seen her in summer clothes . In the previous season, was there any hints that she had a eating disorder?

 

 

Or...maybe she's built like her maternal grandmother.

[HumblePi]

Or...maybe she's built like her maternal grandmother.

 

 

Of course Whitney wants to be a model. The girl is nothing but bone; the times Ive seen her in summer clothes . In the previous season, was there any hints that she had a eating disorder?

The actress that plays Whitney, Julia Goldani Telles, is a professionally trained ballet dancer. Her first role in television came in 2011 when she successfully auditioned for the part of Sasha Torres in the ABC short-lived series Bunheads. She never had an acting job before and without head-shots or a résumé. Her agent felt Bunheads should have been one of her first auditions as he felt she would be comfortable with the dancing aspect of the show. Just judging from her slight physical appearance and long neck, I think it's possible that Whitney could really make it as a model in New York. She certainly has the temperament for it.

[Former Nun]

But Noah's neediness is unquenchable.

 

   

     The premise for the entire series.