B&B: What's Up Today at Forrester Creations? - Daily Chat

[Maelstrom]

Finally, SC gets to play this out with an acting partner who can actually keep up with him! I thought DD did a wonderful job yesterday and today, and especially since it was patently obvious that Bill's biggest regret from all this was getting caught, not from doing the deed in the first place. Bill always seems so insincere, and I loved that Liam finally, finally! called him out on his BS.

SC continues to turn in the performance of a lifetime, and it thrilled me to moon and back when he finally took that damn toothpick necklace off! The slap on Bill's face with his bloody hand was the perfect goodbye to one of soapdom's worst fathers.

I haven't seen a character as blatantly and endlessly propped as Steffy has been since Babe on AMC. *shudders at the memory* She is not an innocent party in all this, Show, and you're never going to convince me otherwise. And with all of Liam's comments about Steffy taking away his chance to be a father, I sure wish they'd acknowledge this is the second time she's done it to him. Hey writers, remember her last tock when she had to ride her super-fun motorcycle to reinforce her super funness, got into an accident and miscarried, then ran out on him before the dust clouds had settled? Yeah, I didn't think so. The sooner he's out of her orbit, the better.

But back to the good stuff... SC has owned every inch of this reveal, and hit every note perfectly. For a trope/situation that plays out fairly regularly on soaps, he's done an amazing job of finding different ways to play out the standard beats. Well done, sir, well done.

[Waldo13]

Katie, a paternity test checks for matching DNA to a male doner.  For Stuffy's fertility issues, it would be checking DNA via a birth defect test. 

Once again I have to say that Katie is like Colombo in ferreting things out. Remember how Colombo would always be leaving and then turn around to ask one last question?  Well today Katie was going to go but she just had to pass "words of wisdom" to Stuffy before she left. These "words of wisdom" led her to conclude Stuffy rode the bucking bronco.  

Stuffy and Bill can't even fantom the fact that it's what they both wanted and are only sorry that they got caught.  Who the hell is Katie to forgive Stuffy because she knows how controlling Bill is. Stuffy is with child so Liam should forgive her. I don't see Katie running back to Bill because of Will. 

Another fantastic exchange between SC and DD. DD was so good, he almost got me to believe he was actually sorry for his betrayal.  As for SC, he dug deep into his soul in telling Bill how betrayed he felt.  I think that the saying "love means never having to say you're sorry" is complete and utter bull shit.  If Liam didn't deeply love Stuffy, he wouldn't be this distraught and unforgiving.  By being with Bill or not, I would imagine Liam wouldn't forgive Stuffy.  Bill just made it two acts of betrayal.  

[Gam2]

Another great day for SC but I was let down today by DD. Yesterday, he was trying to figure out what Liam knew and seemed somewhat genuine but the business today, begging Liam not to be like him, be a better husband and father, etc, etc, etc just rang hollow for me. Usually, DD is the best actor on this show, in my opinion, but SC really outshown him today. I just didn’t buy his remorse or his faux tears. Maybe I was remembering the fantastic trip he was planning for them the day after they screwed Liam to the wall. So to speak. 

[bittersweet4149]

2 hours ago, MulletorHater said:

Bittersweet4149, would you like to place a small wager on whether or not She Whose Ugly Ass Must Be Propped will be held accountable for any of this?

Stuffy is not only the sum total of both her parents, but she also evidently inherited their Teflon coatings.  The excuses and justifications will come fast and furious, ranging from "Oh, she just fell on the dick and couldn't get up" to "She was so dickmatized that she just couldn't remember what happened."  Didn't the heifer already liken this to an out-of-body experience?  We've already seen the "Bill took advantage of a distraught wife" excuse trotted out by those who were disappointed that the Swill animal sacrifice wasn't as romantic and sexy as they had feverishly hoped it would be.

In the writers' haste to sell Swill as a "love story," they inundated the audience with soft porn flashbacks by both of the perpetrators of this dirty deed.  Stuffy was so "traumatized" afterward that she couldn't stay away from Bill.  In fact, she proudly accepted his praise for bringing his family together on Thanksgiving Day.  Yet, they had an impromptu and secret meeting right there in PawPaw's house that day.  She was drawn to Bill like a moth to a flame--or like flies to shit, in retrospect. 

Wager? Chile, I'm not throwing good money after bad, LOL, but you changed my mind about something. Since all three were served, I've been thinking of the heifer as McSpenser's, but now I'm going with SWAMP: She Whose (ugly) Ass Must be Propped.

SWAMP willingly took that ride like $Bill was

and now she needs to pay the price. Hope's got the receipts for all the tea, and she better bring it!

Edited January 5, 2018 by bittersweet4149
fixed link

[Gam2]

Oh, please. Slutty was so traumatized by Liam’s kiss with Sally when they thought they were dying that she had to run to his daddy and have hot sex. Same, same in her mind. What in the hell were these writers thinking when they wrote this absolute crap? How dare they insult our intelligence like this? There had better not be a redemption tour for that selfish, self absorbed, nasty slut. Let her roll in her own shit.

[SimplePleasures]

According to multiple dictionaries a heifer is defined as follows:

• Heifer:  a young female cow that has not borne a calf.

Therefore, I'm taking a stand on the constant defiling of a bovine virgin because Heifer Lives Matter.  Commencing immediately Stuffy shall not be referred to as a heifer and I therefore decree she is more swine than bovine.  I crown these Sauxdi (sowdi).  Bitch!

[ByTor]

2 hours ago, thewhiteowl said:

I enjoyed the play of emotions on Katie's face as she figured it out. 

It was wonderful the way HT played that scene!  And is it my imagination, or is she really elevating JMW in scenes?

[hypnotoad]

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but the business today, begging Liam not to be like him, be a better husband and father, etc, etc, etc just rang hollow for me

I agree. I didn't buy any of the Bill stuff today and I normally really like DD. I almost feel like DD just didn't believe Bill would be saying any of these lines and had a hard time making any of it seem genuine. I don't know how to explain it but I really didn't feel DD/Bill at all today.

Plus all the stuff about it being all Bill's fault. Just stop. Steffy has been having an emotional Bill for months now - all of it is both of their faults. Also it seems impossible for Steffy to not remember that night or to not understand it when she's been thinking about it endlessly (as we the hapless audience have had to suffer through flashback after flashback).

Quote

It was wonderful the way HT played that scene!  And is it my imagination, or is she really elevating JMW in scenes?

I think HT is absolutely elevating JWM. I didn't even think that was possible.

I've loved SC all week but that scene with the sword necklace was ridiculous and hilariously over the top.

[Anna Yolei]

8 hours ago, CountryGirl said:

Wonder if she did it doggy-style with Bill? Why am I wondering? Of course she did.

Geez, thanks for that! *pukes*

7 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

STFU, Katie. The shame is Steffy’s. Bill didn’t rape her.

OMG, this. That is he craziest shit Katie Logan has uttered ever. At least her ravings about Quinn were rooted in reality.

Liam owes STEFFY? Oh,no. Hell no. And for Katie of all people to pick up that mantle...sorry, but no. She can have some sympathy without throwing Liam under the bus. This would have worked slightly better from Brooke, given that she raised her for most of her childhood and she's forgiven far worse.

If TIIC are rying to spin this as Nick/Bridget 2.0, they can get fucked too. Nick *did* owe Bridget to not rage like an indignant, sanctimonious fool, sure, but even as glad as I was to see him get the karmic payback he had coming I wouldn't say he needed to stay either.

Which reminds me,Liam should have brought up the fact that he put his life with Hope on hold when he learned of their first baby, so she can can it about questioning his commitment to his child. In fact, I'm glad that for the first time on a William J. Bell soap opera ever, the writers have acknowledged that you need not be together to fucking co-parent.

Edited January 6, 2018 by Anna Yolei

[hypnotoad]

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That is he craziest shit Katie Logan has uttered ever. At least her ravings about Quinn were rooted in reality.

Liam owes STEFFY? Oh,no. Hell no. And for Katie of all people to pick up that mantle

Yeah that stuff made no sense coming from Katie. Plus with as close to Liam as she has been in the past and some of the things she's been through herself, you'd think she might see things from his point of view. I think the issue is (or at least I'm choosing to believe it this way) that the writers needed someone to spout those lines to poor misunderstood Steffy and who is there to do that? No one. She has no friends. Her sister is gone. The writers didn't have a ton of choices and so ... Katie.

Liam owes Steffy nothing. Certainly he waffled a lot, but that doesn't mean he deserved this. And if I hear Steffy or anyone else trying to equate one lousy kiss to a one night stand, I swear my brain is going to explode.

[thewhiteowl]

Katie, to be fair, didn't say a word about Liam coming back or forgiving Steffy after she realized it was Dolla. She said he'll be coming, you should leave and I thought Katie was referring to Dolla. And I believe she's right. His selfishness will rise and he will go to Steffy.

[ByaNose]

I think HT brought the best out in JMW. I also think DD a great job but between his Elvis hair and beard I can never take him seriously. I know I’m knit picking but he’s never looked real on B&B. Somehow on Y&R I found him unbelievable. Eventually, new nuHope will arrive and then I guuueeessssss Steffy & Bill will bond over Liam’s baby?! LOL!!!!!! I am curious to see who side Wyatt takes? The side who butters his bread (Bill) or the guy who drives him nuts but really cares for him (Liam)? Finally, when will Bill find out that Wyatt is doing Katie???

[Waldo13]

I was just sitting in my recliner with a cup of hot cocoa listening to the wind and trying to keep warm and rewatching B&B on my DVR. I began to wonder why did Stuffy need a paternity test in the first place?  If she was going to keep lying to Liam about revenge sex night, with Bill, so why did you have to know who the father was. It is Liam's child, case close. So Stuffy, if it was Bill's child what would have you done then?  Tell Liam that the baby is not yours, it's your father's but I'm very very sorry.  I could see Liam snapping,  pulling a Quinn, and push Stuffy over the cliff.  

 

ETA:  But, alas, Stuffy has her broomstick and flies back to safety.  I had to edit, I didn't want to kill the baby. 

Edited January 6, 2018 by Waldo13

[Anna Yolei]

14 hours ago, hypnotoad said:

I think the issue is (or at least I'm choosing to believe it this way) that the writers needed someone to spout those lines to poor misunderstood Steffy and who is there to do that? No one. She has no friends. Her sister is gone. The writers didn't have a ton of choices and so ... Katie.

If any of the spies are reading this, I hope they understand how much of an island Steffy has become, even by B&B standards. There's no feasible way to unkill Phoebe and TIIC will probably revisit the Hope/Steffy shit in the future, so they've out.

Of all the choices on screen, a friendship with Nicole would be the least ridiculous. Steffy hasn't had reason to fuck her over yet.

Edited January 6, 2018 by Anna Yolei

[Dream Boy]

Katie should own stock in Lipton's. There's no tea that she can't sift out lol Oh, Steffy, shut up and go away forever. 

[smartyshorts]

I'm not ashamed to say, I saved the episode where Liam confronts Steffy about the paternity test.  Over and over I watch "I can't, I can't!! It was BILL.  It was your father."  Liam's face is a wonder to behold.

Bill can go suck on an exhaust pipe with "You HAVE to forgive Steffy.  You HAVE to go back to your wife. RIGHT NOW"  Damn, give the guy a couple of days and some space to process his emotions.  That little wrestling match on the floor was ridiculous, and took me right out of the emotional scenes from Liam.  And I so much wanted $Bill to FINALLY say..."This is how I destroy someone who betrays me.  The baby complicates things, but I told you I would decimate you. " Or something to that effect.  because all of us (including Liam) concluded this was part of Bill's long game revenge.  And lets face it, that would be more in keeping with Bill's personality than this whiny  groveling "you're the best of us, you have to break the Spencer curse!". 

The sword necklace stuff was ...well, certainly symbolic...the bloody almost gentle face slap was a thing of beauty.  Although, I still think Liam should've gotten in one karate kick to Bill's chiseled jaw as he was kneeling there though.

[hypnotoad]

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And I so much wanted $Bill to FINALLY say..."This is how I destroy someone who betrays me.  The baby complicates things, but I told you I would decimate you. " Or something to that effect.  because all of us (including Liam) concluded this was part of Bill's long game revenge.  And lets face it, that would be more in keeping with Bill's personality than this whiny  groveling "you're the best of us, you have to break the Spencer curse!". 

This. So. Much. This. I think you've explained why I just didn't buy any of Bill's stuff yesterday. I think the lines were weak and just made no sense. Liam has to forgive Steffy, it was all Bill's fault, Steffy couldn't have run from Bill faster, break the Spencer curse. All of that is so stupid to me. And I didn't believe a single bit of Bill's tears. Dude you planned a trip with Steffy after the big bang! Plus, hasn't Karen broken the Spencer curse (whatever that is supposed to mean) since she and Danielle are married and raised a child together under one roof?!?

I think the storyline would be so much better if Bill had admitted he got his revenge on Liam. That doesn't have to negate the alleged love he has been hanging onto regarding Steffy (you know that great love that apparently means Katie and Brooke meant nothing to him ... hahahahaha). The revenge could have been icing on the cake - he gets his 'perfect' woman and he gets revenge.

Of course that would mean taking Bill down and even darker path and maybe the folks in charge just don't have the balls for that which is too bad. It would have made a lot more sense and I think DD would have acted the hell out of that.

Still all in all, I have loved this week ... well I mean the Liam/Steffy/Bill/Katie/Wyatt part.

[Anna Yolei]

I was surprised to find SC carrying the scenes with DD. That's no knock on him, but the hamminess of the latter's acting choices took me out of the scene at tmes. 

The half hearted slap on Bill's face was exactly what he deserved. The man thrives on fighting and Liam didn't give him the satisaction of punching his lights out. It put me in mind of when Bridget delivered Hope and she stayed just long enough to make sure Brooke was kay before telling her calmly that her baby was her only daughter now.

I'm only disappointed that Sky didn't get broken this week. That seems like a lost opportunity.

[TobinAlbers]

11 hours ago, Anna Yolei said:

There's no feasible way to unkill Phoebe and TIIC will probably revisit the Hope/Steffy shit in the future, so they've out.

The child raised as Phoebe wasn't the correct child. She was switched at birth on the hospital with another child by accident. This now adult daughter learns about it now and since both her parents are dead she's decided to meet her bio family. Bada bing, bada boom! New Forrester sister!

4 hours ago, hypnotoad said:

Of course that would mean taking Bill down and even darker path and maybe the folks in charge just don't have the balls for that which is too bad. It would have made a lot more sense and I think DD would have acted the hell out of that.

Having Bill bark all that decimation foolishness but relent on the bite makes him look weak. When he first started, Bill suffered no tools and his reputation preceded him as a badass. This was a man who was going to push Amber when he thought she was pregnant with his grandchild over a cliff to protect his son. He verbally eviscerated the Logan sisters without breaking a sweat. Ordered a man dumped from a helicopter. His newfound sense of family aside, Bill has been shown teetering back and forth between old habits and newly discovered empathy. Exposing Maya as Myron then apologizing for his stunt. 

Barking at Liam like that, Bill definitely needed to follow through on that bite. Victor Newman caused his daughter's miscarriage, accessory to the murder of his son, and has been accessory to other crimes against his family and others and is still embraced by his family and others. If he can recover so could Bill. As it stands it's going to take a lot if work for Liam to ever embrace Bill again. Might as well have had Bill be a deliberate lowdown bastard and cop to his revenge. But then I think if Bill had gloated, there would be no other logical action I could see Liam doing except his mind snapping and him really trying to kill Bill. As it stands he, Bill, and Steffy can all believe it wasn't a meticulous revenge plan, just Bill taking advantage. Take away that 'heat of the moment' aspect to cold blooded planned revenge and there really is no forgiving or forgetting. And no jury would convict Liam if he had rammed Bill's head in the floor until the white meat showed.

[tessaray]

The scenes with Liam and Bill on the floor were so weird - a very odd directing choice. And I'm a little baffled that Bill is all about Liam forgiving Steffy, unless they are trying to show that he really loves her that much. It would be interesting if true, because I can't tell if Still or Steam would then be endgame.  Or maybe they are going for a Brooke/Ridge/Eric kind of triangle they can play out for the next few years?   (I suppose that's way more lazy, recycled material than Brill had available. Not that I'm bitter or anything...)

[Joimiaroxeu]

Arriving late to the party on Friday's show:

Dang, DD was looking mighty fine. He is one tasty man.

Heh, Katie also had the immediate assumption that Bill drugged Steffy or got her drunk. Uh, Katie, have you met Steffy before? You do know her, right?

"There is no one more capable of forgiveness than you. Because you are the biggest chump walking. Your wearing that miniature letter opener as a necklace is the proof."

Liam, oy, I hope you're current on your tetanus vaccine. And leaving that bloody handprint on Bill was a tad much. He should've just given him the Michael Corleone Kiss of Death.

I'm liking more and more the theory that $Bill finagled to get the DNA test results changed and he knows he's the baby's father. "Giving" Liam the child is his idea of penance. But, that likely would just be kicking the bombshell down the road where it would hurt even worse to find out the kid you've been raising as your son is actually your brother.

[RuntheTable]

I think Bill is truly shell shocked. The thing for me is Bill never expected Liam to find out. The two people who knew were not about to spill the beans, so Bill thought they were all going to move forward with everything in place. Since Bill never gave their confrontation any consideration; he was taken off guard, and had no defense prepared when Liam showed up. Bill is nothing if he is not calculating, and if he had thought there was any chance of Liam ever finding out, he would already have had a plan in place. Additionally, if Bill had ever thought about a confrontation with Liam, he would probably have expected Liam to charge into his office, full of salt and vinegar, yelling at Bill and pointing his finger, and spouting about ethics. He would never have expected the calm, cool, collected Liam, who casually strolled into his office and cut him to shreds. Bill can deal with yelling and screaming and threats and physical violence, because those are his go to tactics when faced with adversity. But he didn’t have a clue how to handle that cold, distant, untouchable Liam. Bill could sense that Liam was shut down inside, that whatever he felt for Bill before was now buried under ice as heavy and thick as the concrete Bill had dropped on him and Sally. So I found Bill tackling Liam right in Bill’s wheelhouse, because that was something Bill could use to force Liam’s hand, something he could do to make Liam angry, and Bill can deal with anger, because anger is something tangible to Bill.  And it worked. Liam actually sat on the floor with his dad and listened. It didn’t do any good of course, but Bill got what he wanted by using his tried and true tactics. If Bill had been prepared for that conversation, I think he may have come from a different angle, but my feelings are he was on his heels, trying to understand the stranger standing in front of him, all with the knowledge that he had really and truly lost his son this time. Bill can explain away many things as being about business, or I didn’t know you were still in there, but he cannot explain away his dick finding its way into Liam’s wife’s vagina. He was mesmerized by Liam’s calm coldness, and was terrified at what was driving it, and was trying anything to turn things back in his favor. I thought Liam ripping off his Spencer Sword and crushing it with his bare hand was majestic, and a thing of beauty. The fact that Liam was willing to rip his hand open in order to free himself from his “Spencer Legacy” spoke volumes about his emotional and mental state, and so much more about his feelings regarding Bill. Just like people become blood brothers by intermingling their blood; Liam literally crushed his legacy and wiped his father’s face in it, leaving his blood on Bill’s face as a reminder of the son he once had, and the son who once loved him. Back when Liam took Spencer from Bill, I named a song as my new Liam anthem, and I think it still applies:

 

Who is this person masquerading as Katie? Kind, and sweet, and understanding? Where is the shrieking harpy, judgey mcjudgerson person I have always known? Let’s see; the only real change in Katie’s life, well other than not outing children’s parentage, and blackmailing, and spyglass spying, is Wyatt; more namely, Wyatt’s dick. So what exactly is going on down there? Wyatt’s previous ladies did sorta, kinda, intimate that of the two Spencer boys, Wyatt might have more going on in his nether regions, but you can pack all the heat you want; if you don’t know how to properly operate the machinery, it is a moot point. Well, I don’t know who she is, but I like her. Now, I want to know why Katie was the one? Particularly given her history with Steffy. We all know that happened for a reason right? Show never does crazy shit like that without a bigger plan. Could it be Katie and Steffy will support each other after Bill discovers Watie? Of course Katie will have Brooke, so that might not be it. But there is most assuredly a bigger reason laying in wait.  The only other person I can think of that Steffy could turn to would be Ivy, since we were told before Liam and Steffy’s wedding that Ivy and Steffy had said their I’m sorrys, and were friends again.

I really want to thank Show for giving me so much this week. It was more than I anticipated, and overall, was so well written I felt like I was watching a different program after suffering through a week of Bridge and two of their afternoon soft porn scenes. Most of all though, I want to thank SC, DD, HT, and even JMW, for making it so exciting and so riveting.

I must also thank my fellow posters, who never disappoint in their snark and comments, and who sometimes are more entertaining than Show.

Edited January 7, 2018 by RuntheTable

[Anna Yolei]

So, here's this scene I can across that I assume got cut for time:

 

Apart from all the "Steffy iz teh smartest" rubbish near the end, I found it to be something that needed to be said for a long time now. Looking back, Still 1.0 started less than 3 months after Katie and Bill were married. As Katie herself said, time has shown that Steffy wasn't the problem with their marriage.

This does give some perspective to Katie's tone, which as mentioned is a departure from the sourpuss Mrs. Kravitz tone we've grown used to.

[grisgris]

Thanks for posting this, Anna.

I will give credit that yes, JMW does work well with HT. However, I call complete BS on a lot of that conversation. For starters, I believe that Steffy 100% knew what she was doing when she was toying around with $Bill and she was serious "as a heart attack." (Pun intended.) There was more than one scene with Steffy and Taylor where Steffy told Taylor that she loved Bill, "got" him, was the only one who could make him happy, etc. Katie, as a new wife, had every right to be concerned about her marriage and was within her rights to not "be nice" to Steffy.  I remember that Katie fired Steffy from FC, but seriously, how can you fire somebody from the family company? And that barely lasted a day or so before Steffy wormed her way right back in but using some underhanded tactics, including going behind Katie's back to whine to Bill about the "unfair treatment."

I will give the writers props for attempting to explain Katie's new POV but otherwise, Steffy still sucks.  I don't want for them to become BFFs.

[ByaNose]

I will say the drama and acting of HT, JMW, SC & DD has been a nice change of pace. That said, with nuHope back in town it will be back to the usual garbage that only my favorite half hour soap does so well. LOL!!!

[Cindylou]

On ‎1‎/‎6‎/‎2018 at 3:46 AM, Anna Yolei said:

There's no feasible way to unkill Phoebe and TIIC will probably revisit the Hope/Steffy shit in the future, so they've out.

Sure there is...... Prince Omar couldn't have Taylor so he took her daughter and she has been child trafficked all these years......

[bittersweet4149]

Ridge ditched the hobo look today. The haircut, bath, and decent fitting clothes worked wonders. Hope he keeps it up.

Katie really can keep a secret. Who knew?

The setup for Hope find out the tea and read Steffy like a library book was a little heavy handed, but I'm looking forward to someone, anyone, finally telling that heifer rutting sow about herself. Bring it, Show. Bring it.

[TobinAlbers]

10 minutes ago, bittersweet4149 said:

Ridge ditched the hobo look today. The haircut, bath, and decent fitting clothes worked wonders. Hope he keeps it up.

Katie really can keep a secret. Who knew?

The setup for Hope find out the tea and read Steffy like a library book was a little heavy handed, but I'm looking forward to someone, anyone, finally telling that heifer rutting sow about herself. Bring it, Show. Bring it.

Ironically it was Hope reading Steffy for filth after Still 1.0 that begat the Triangle of Doom. Her going over off on Steffy again might be just the thing to light a fire under her hoodie wearing mopey butt. Heaven help us all then!

[Petunia13]

Wtf is this "Liam HAS to forgive you" crap they keep saying? Where is that coming from...his vows? Cuz she vowed to be faithful and rode his papa like a stallion barebacked. He doesn't owe her anything. 

NuHope is pretty and has a very Logan look. I hope she isn't as prissy as oldHope. I hope she avenges Liam and Ally by ruining Stuffys image and taking up Liam for shits and gigs. If she becomes BFF with Sally and the Spectra clique that would be fine too. 

[thewhiteowl]

Liam doesn't have to forgive squat. Pregnancy is not a free pass to fucking your father-in-law.

[CountryGirl]

So I'm up to my eyeballs completing annual performance appraisals for my directs and all have to be done by week's end...suffice it to say, recaps may be a bit sparse this week.

Although it may be just as well as I felt as if Friday's show was good, but not great. Thursday, there was a bit of that feeling, too. Not a reflection on any of the players, especially SC, but they just didn't live up to the level that the rest of the week brought in spades.

I just didn't buy Bill's remorse and DD failed to bring it like he usually does. Perhaps it was some of the dialogue, I don't know. Bill's talking about he needs Liam's forgiveness because of the goodness in Liam...it just didn't ring true to me. Bill has never given two shits about any of that and has so often mocked Liam for his cape wearing and do-gooder status. I do agree with @RuntheTable, that Liam's understated, chilling reaction put Bill off foot, but not so much so (IMO) that he would go completely contrary to character and start championing the very virtues he and Steffy both deemed weak and meaningless mere weeks ago.

Equally off and even more annoying was Bill's insistence that Liam HAS to reconcile with Steffy for the sake of the baby. Liam does not HAVE to do anything, much less reunite with the bitch who betrayed him and lied about and would have gone on lying had her lazy, entitled ass not been found out. If there were no baby involved, would anyone honestly expect him to reconcile? I'd be hard-pressed to find anyone willing to raise their hand, save some ride-or-die Steamless fans. So because there IS a baby, that chains him to this marriage for life? No. Anymore than a couple who aren't married should get married because they find out they are expecting. If they weren't going to get married anyway, then marrying for the sake of the child is just terrible. Terrible for them and terrible even more so for that child who didn't ask for any of this. I cannot tell you how many friends (and friends of friends) I've had over the years who "had" to get married and when the child graduates, it's Splitsville. Truly sad and how many years wasted for a responsibility that could have been fulfilled without vows or a shared roof. 

Liam needs to focus on Liam right now. He needs to take care of himself and learn how to live alone and begin to heal from the double betrayal inflicted on him by the people he loved and trusted the most. He will be a better parent for it and I have no doubt he will be an amazing father but he does not - I repeat - he does NOT need to be living with Steffy in order to accomplish that. He can be far more present without being physically present under the same roof. So Bill can just STFU about all of this.

Katie can also STFU. As much as I enjoyed seeing HT and JMW interact, namely because it raised Jacquie's acting to a level I didn't think possible, I just cannot with the blaming of Bill, the telling Steffy that she was "taken advantage of" and that it was Bill's "shame," not hers. WTAF?

We all know that's not what happened as we saw, more times than my brain or stomach care to recall, the two of them mutually engaging in a boinkfest. Plus, Katie had to deal with Steffy in the infancy of Kill 1.0, so I am just shaking my head at the revisionist history here. Katie sure as hell didn't give Brooke any quarter for her actions where Bill was concerned (nor should she have at the time in question) and I get that Brooke is Katie's sister, so another double betrayal, but still...for Katie to be comforting and propping Steffy up after all she did to wreck the Kill relationship - Steffy's being pregnant or not - just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Also, this dialogue from Katie made me want to throw things at my TV: "No, I understand better than you think. You made a mistake. You broke your marriage vows, and that's bad. And I'm sure you hurt Liam, but everyone makes mistakes. I mean, come on, how many years did we watch Liam wander from you to hope and back again, breaking both of your hearts in the process?"

How can TPTB get so much right in the first three episodes of the week and then get it so horribly wrong with this steaming pile of shit?

First, a mistake is forgetting to take out the trash. Fucking one's father-in-law after weeks of carrying on an emotional affair behind one's husband's back is NOT a mistake. The "everyone makes mistakes" just pissed me right off. No, everyone does not cheat or lie or betray. But how nice of Katie to hand-wave and rug sweep. Which makes the last part, calling Liam the Waffle he was, truly hypocritical. I mean, sure, Steffy fucking Bill, hurt Liam, but Liam was just such a serial cheater, that surely he can overlook this.

Except he wasn't. I've pointed this out before and I'll continue to beat the drum now - Steffy was always the third, self-inserted piece of the TOD and very willing accomplice when Liam waffled from the virginal Hope. Good Lord, the woman stuck her tongue down his throat the night of his first engagement party to Hope and, after being busted by Hope, was all too happy to accept the ring still warm from Hope's finger. And that was just the beginning. The only reason she pulled him away from Hope for any real length of time is because she got knocked up before. She also cheated on him with Wyatt (an emotional affair that just missed crossing the line the night she stripped down to her skivvies and cuddled with Wyatt in Liam's bed) and cheated WITH Liam again when she was married to Wyatt. She used his daddy, her daddy, and her vag, and unborn child, to keep him on the hook so I guess I can see why she's angling to keep doing so now. But for Katie to join the Swill chorus and think that this heifer should get some sort of free pass or Liam OWES her? That's some kind of tomfuckery right there.

All of that said, I did appreciate that Liam finally ripped off that ridiculous necklace.

How he stared at it with such disgust and loathing...

How he physically purged it - and his father - from his life.

The blood starting to ooze out and SC continued to be oh-so-chilling here.

Liam looking down at his blood - his father's blood.

Bill on his knees, begging, and again, did not ring true for Bill at all.

The heartbreak on Liam's face. The easier emotion, anger, has faded, and the sadness has moved in where it will remain for a good long time, perhaps it will always be there. 

Bill, continuing to beg and plead...what did strike me as perhaps he was begging for Steffy, not his own son, and that just pissed me off all over again. That he suddenly loves this heifer of a woman more than the woman who was the very air he breathed. More than the son who is supposedly the best of them (the Spencers). 

Liam wiping his blood on Bill's face and symbolically ridding himself of blood ties.

Bill, get up...you look fucking ridiculous and we all know it'll be a nanosecond before you're hightailing it over to the beach house to play the Dark Knight in Tarnished Honor to Hauxdilox and the Bear in her Stank Oven.

Edited January 8, 2018 by CountryGirl

[TobinAlbers]

Well, it'd be healthy for Liam to forgive Steffy so he can let go of his anger for their child's sake and be as healthy a father for him/her as he can be. His loathing of her and Bill right now is toxic for him and his child so ultimately, yeah, he'd need to find a way to not want to snatch her weave everytime he saw her.

Bill's a different story because Grandpa doesn't really need to be in his child's life and wouldn't be as direct an influence unless both Liam and Steffy died. Then it'd be the battle of the Grandparents with Ridge/Taylor and Bill fighting over the kid unless Steffy and Liam arranged for the child to be raised by someone else. In a rom com it'd be Wyatt, Thomas, and Hope.

[CountryGirl]

@TobinAlbers, I don't disagree that at some point, for his child's sake and, more importantly, his own, Liam should forgive them both.

Because for me, forgiveness is not about the other person (or, people, in Liam's case). Forgiveness is a gift you give  yourself. It's letting go of the hope that the past would have been different. 

It does not mean that you condone it or are okay with it or anything even close to that - it means you've accepted that it happened, you did nothing to deserve it, and rather than letting what someone else did define you or drag you down, you put it in your rearview mirror. Most certainly, it doesn't mean reconciling or keeping up a contrived marriage of convenience for the sake of Cooper or Phoebe Spencer. 

[mightysparrow]

Who the fuck is Bill to say what Liam HAS to do?  Liam doesn't have to do a fucking thing where Hauxdilox and $Bill are concerned.  He's said that he will co-parent his child and that's the sum of his obligation to Hauxdi.  He doesn't owe $Bill a fucking thing.

I'm already sick of Hauxdi's pity party.  She knew EXACTLY what she was doing when she fucked her father-in-law and what it meant.  If she thought her marriage was over, then she had no business jumping out of bed with her FIL and returning home to renew her vows.  What, it was just a misunderstanding?  Liam had still kissed her 'worst enemy' when she returned home the next morning.  Wasn't she still 'shattered' or did fucking $Bill put all her pieces together?  Maybe, after fucking her FIL, she had a better understanding on what 'infidelity' really was.

I liked what I saw of NuHope.  It seems that the time away has given her time to grow.  I have no doubt that she'll feel badly for Liam when she sees him in such agony.  Liam and Hope were friends, unlike Liam and Steffy.  Hope helped Liam find out who his father was and even though THAT didn't turn out so great, they went through a lot together before Hauxdi sunk her talons into him.

I'm praying that we're watching the death of Steffy and Liam.  They should NEVER have been together in the first place.  The foundation of their relationship is jealousy, manipulation, and hatefulness.  Steffy went after Liam to hurt Hope AND to get a proxy for Bill.  As for Liam, what man marries his father's side piece?  It didn't make any fucking sense then and it doesn't now.  The argument was that $Bill and Hauxdi hadn't ACTUALLY fucked, so it was okay for her and Liam to get together.  Well, they did everything BUT that and it was always the elephant in the room.  There's no other reason for $Bill to be so on-board with his son being with Steffy. 

The idea that Hope was the bad one because she wanted to wait for marriage before she had sex was mind-boggling.  She was a young woman who had made a choice about what she wanted to do with her body and she was dragged through the streets of LA for it.  As a woman who is decidedly pro-choice, I never understood why Hope was so roundly criticized for wanting to be a virgin on her wedding night.  She had the right to make that choice for herself.  Practically every one she knew was breathing down her neck, insisting that the only way she could hang on to the man she loved was for her to spread her legs.  The poor girl had nobody on her side.  Well, Liam went for the more 'liberated' woman and has had nothing but misery ever since. 

Hauxdilox was always presented as the 'modern' young woman.  But Hauxdi's style was as old as time; using sex to get what she wanted.  The only things that Hauxdi has that she didn't get by flinging her catbag around are the things she got because of an accident of birth.

Hope has spent a few years learning the fashion business and finding out who she is.  I would love for her to team up with Sally and create a fashion line that would give Forrester a run for their money.  Or maybe she and Thorne could set up their own fashion house.  Whatever happens, if Hope and Liam get back together, it should be after they take the time to rediscover each other and realize that they ALWAYS wanted the same things and that they (and when I say 'they' I mean Liam) should have fought harder for the life they always wanted.

[TobinAlbers]

6 minutes ago, CountryGirl said:

@TobinAlbers, I don't disagree that at some point, for his child's sake and, more importantly, his own, Liam should forgive them both.

Because for me, forgiveness is not about the other person (or, people, in Liam's case). Forgiveness is a gift you give  yourself. It's letting go of the hope that the past would have been different. 

It does not mean that you condone it or are okay with it or anything even close to that - it means you've accepted that it happened, you did nothing to deserve it, and rather than letting what someone else did define you or drag you down, you put it in your rearview mirror. Most certainly, it doesn't mean reconciling or keeping up a contrived marriage of convenience for the sake of Cooper or Phoebe Spencer. 

Oh, absolutely! That's what I meant. Liam needs to forgive for himself not for Bill or Steffy's sakes.

Like I said, I want to see single Liam and single dad Liam. As you said he needs to focus on himself and healing so he can be the dad to his child that he's always wanted to be and a good father. He also needs to realize that while he may have lacked a nuclear family growing up, that doesn't mean he has to try to give that to his child when it's not right between him and his partner. This child will be loved by him and Steffy even if they aren't together and be loved even better when his/her parents are in loving relationships even if it's not with each other.

But then this is a soap so....drama is a'comin. But if there was ever a time for Brad Bell to not pay such close homage to his soap roots and let a rebounding character NOT immediately seek love or a warm body Liam post Still would be it.

[Waldo13]

Why in the world is Stuffy wearing a black hoodie?  If she's in mourning, than it would have been more appropriate for her to wear her black wedding dress. 

Bill just STFU and go away. I'm not leaving you like this, is still Bill's way of saying I'm here and I'm still want to be in your pants Liam doesn't come back to you. No it's my fault, no it's my fault blah blah blah.  It's both your faults. Bill stop dictating what Liam should do.  At this point, you have no control over Liam.  Stuffy, I got news for you. You lost Liam no matter what. Even if he comes back, he could never trust you 100% again.  

I'm not sure about new Hope yet. I have to wait and see before I can make a judgement.  

[Gam2]

I don’t know where Liam is and don’t care as long as he’s away from these two terrible people. The longer he makes them wonder and worry, the better. I thought the new Hope did okay today but am so very tired of the long, sausage curl hairdos. Every young woman looks the same whether on a soap, the news, the mall or wherever. At least, KKL cut her damn hair and it looks great!

[ByaNose]

nuHope did a good job. I know she had to dye her hair for the role. Eventually, you’ll see more of the actress once she gets more comfortable in the role. She looks similar to KM but isn’t a total dead ringer. I think she’s even a few inches taller. I guess she’ll be in Liam’s orbit for a while and then they’ll chem test her with the other dudes on the show. Just as they have been doing IR. All in all, the casting director did a good job. I remember when fan favorite left and was repacked by a new actress. I think she lasted a few months and they she was replaced by Ashley Jones. Sometime it works and other times it doesn’t. 

[Joimiaroxeu]

So Steffy and Bill knew it would be the worst for Liam to show up and catch them together IN HIS OWN HOUSE, yet they decided to carry on their conversation because screw fate. One would think Bill has not heard of FaceTime.

Liam and Steffy complement each other. Sure. Like forks and wall sockets.

I'm okay with nuHope so far but her wide smile made me think of The Joker for some reason.

If Kate and Wyatt want to keep their fling a secret, why were they cuddled up in her office at FC where anyone could walk in at any time? Gossipy Pam, nosy Maya...

[grisgris]

Dang! I couldn't find the black hoodie of despair* on wornontv.com (but actually got a sneak preview of a gorgeous silky blue floral jacket we'll be seeing here on Hope shortly.)

I don't have much to add to what others have said. Liam is under no obligation to reunite with Steffy just for the sake of the child (TM) Nick Marone.  I just can't wrap my head around that slattern having any iota of maternal longing or instinct. It is more consistent with her character to not want children as they would interfere with her career, her body ... her FUN!

C'mon, Katie ... I know you're dying to spill to Wyatt.

There was really too little screen time with nuHope to form an opinion about the actress in general. However, I got the distinct feeling that she's going after Liam. Maybe that wasn't so wise to discuss Steam with Fauxdi's father. (Unless it was to throw him off the trail.)

Yep. TK looked good today. He got a haircut, shaved and cleaned up. He and KKL actually looked like a *cough* couple for a change, instead of a fashionable executive and a hobo. I was wrong. It looks like KKL has cut her hair even more, not letting it grow out. I applaud that and think the present length and style look great. It kind of looks like the color has been toned down a bit, too, but that could have been due to proximity to the flesh color block in her sweater. (I noticed that the stylists seem to dress KKL exclusively in DVF. That's interesting but DVF's design style suits KKL.) Good job!

*I kid you not. I went to a Halloween party last October and a female couple dressed as "thugs." They wore dark beat-up hoodies and one of them had dark makeup smeared under her eyes. However, I think she was aiming for "grunge," not "I just got caught cheating on my husband with his father ..." Just sayin'!

[Petunia13]

Hope looks a bit like Jennifer Garies/Donna and a tad similar to Bridget.  This show does such a good job casting people who resemble their family. 

Steffi cant really pull that hoody off. I hate when they try to make her look street or tom boyish. It doesn't jive with the face full of plastic surgery and 20lb wig. It just reeks of try hard and like "oh she's so edgy and fun or hashtag relatable" 

Still baffled why they have chanted this Liam has to forgive nonsense because he's just so ethical and the obligation to the baby. Like he'd be a bad person for leaving Steffi. Not remotely true and he's entitled to have some DIGNITY. It's so disrespectful. Honestly even if Steffy was my fave I'd be rooting for him to dump her. 

[hypnotoad]

Quote

Yep. TK looked good today. He got a haircut, shaved and cleaned up. He and KKL actually looked like a *cough* couple for a change

I hate myself for this, but I actually liked Ridge and Brooke today. They seemed couple-ish. And yes I did appreciate a cleaned up Ridge for a change (though his messy look doesn't bother me as much as it does others).

I wanted to smack Steffy and Bill today for every stupid line they uttered. 'Do you think I've lost Liam forever?' Geez, what do you think moron?!? I mean sure perhaps he'll forgive her (I hope hope hope not) but come on. You slept with your father in law. Just imagine if Liam had slept with Taylor and she was pregnant. Lawd Steffy would be howling over that forever. But in this situation, Liam is expected to get over it like now-ish. Bill needs to just shut up period.

I wasn't overly impressed with nuHope but ten again, I didn't much like oldHope so I guess I'll see how it goes. I just want her to stay out of Liam's orbit in terms of romance. I cannot take another endless ToD. I really cannot.

I still like Katie and Wyatt - though she looked like she was dying to spill her guts!

[SweePea59]

Hope has always been my favorite dressed character. And I loved what she was wearing today on her first day back. Yay wardrobe!

On the other hand we have Puffy in the hoodie. Boo wardrobe!

[TobinAlbers]

Binged last week's eps and today catching up and yep, SC was on fire with Tuesday through Thursday being highlights.

Some really nice moments I caught about SC and in general:

Wednesday's eps
JMcW may have been directed to play Steffy's confirmation that Bill didn't drug her in such a way that Steffy got so caught up in her performance that she wasn't reading the room or her husband's face or body language. Any other woman would've been trying to keep as much physical contact and eye contact with their husband so he isn't retreating into himself or his thoughts or emotions. That he remains present with her as she reminds him of their bond. Instead let him physically pull away and wasn't even paying attention to him but on herself as she got out the words and she allowed the distance to build. She lost him right at that moment but didn’t realize it.

SC really was on a different level. Yes he had more to work with but you can't tell me Susan Flannery at any age couldn't have taken the same lines they gave JMcW and worked that shit.  JMcW couldn't move Steffy past remorse mode to an inner life behind her eyes whereas SC was working through Liam’s mind and emotions jumping all over the place and taking you with him.

When Liam finally told her to shut up, I had no problem with it because Steffy was repeating herself with her sorrys. He was tired of hearing her shit because it was empty and wouldn't change a damn thing.

Thursday's episode
-I hope Liam's truly done with her. He dumped her with such finality that it needs to stick.
-Lord, Steffy was still laid out on the ground?!
"She can take care of herself, she always does." Hot damn, have the blinders dropped from Liam's eyes and his Captain Save a Ho cape been put away for Steffy!
- At Bill's ‘Something bothering you Liam?’ Watch Scott as he moves around Don. His body language. The flash of rage his Liam tamps down and the tension in his body as he does so. He’s trying not to blow up. He doesn’t want to blow up. Not yet.
-I’m not here for Katie and Steffy.
-Both Bill and Steffy pawing at Liam not to leave, they’re lucky he wasn’t throwing punches.
- Liam's ‘you don’t deserve me!’ Was heartbreaking
-I buy Bill tackling Liam because as everyone pointed out, Bill knew no words would make him stop or listen.

Friday
I’m an 80% Katie apologist but in this episode I can quite easily say Fuck Katie and her ‘Liam owes you’ shit. Steffy fucked his father. Even if it hadn't been Bill, she cheated on him the day after he almost died and didn't know who her baby's daddy was. Liam forgave Steffy cuddling in his bed with Wyatt and marrying him when he was kidnapped. He forgave her careless actions that cost them their first child. She ran out on him after their child died, he followed her, she dumped him once and for all and he accepted it and moved on only for her to come back on the eve of his wedding to Hope sniffing around again. He don't owe her jack.
-JMcW was better with HT because she had more to play in her wheelhouse; she didn’t have to play Steffy as just sorry; she was playing Steffy as trying to cover her pain by being the cold business woman who was also numb inside
-Wow Katie it so easy to say when it ain’t you that 'mistakes happen'. You didn’t accept that crap when it just happened shit with Brill.
-Bill thinking Liam just needed to punch him a couple of times to get past this was truly sad. Sad, pathetic, desperate. He is truly a fool.
-Sooooooo Liam is suddenly the Jason Quartermaine/Lila Quartermaine of the Spencer family pit of vipers? The one no one supposedly can’t bear to disappoint? The guiding light of the family? The future? Come on. Bill and Wyatt looked at Liam as a sap and spineless and tag teamed bullied him. If Wyatt or Bill had any respect for Liam or took how he thought of them into consideration or believed he was the future of Spencer they wouldn’t be fucking his women and undermining him with them at every turn. The look on Liam's face beautifully conveyed he saw through Bill's bullshit.
-Good grief is all this Bill took advantage of Steffy some commentary about the mishandled Caromas aftermath?
-Liam ripping off that necklace was a great first step. Stabbing himself and wiping his blood on Bill not so much. I get the motif was Liam leaving both Steffy and Bill on their knees begging and him walking away strong and righteous but Liam is anything but victorious. He is a broken, beaten, devastated man.
-I think Bill deep down inside did realize how lucky he was to have Liam and loved him as a son in spite of himself. 
-Hang on, Bill, Sr was abusive?? Or was Bill talking about a stepfather?
-My main thing with Bill on Thursday and Friday especially is that he has been written way too inconsistently for his conversation, apology, or appeals with Liam to make sense. With Justin he’s being the bigger man in stepping aside and letting Liam have Steffy. He regrets betraying his son but not enough to regret that night or if Steffy was willing, rekindle their relationship. With Liam, he’s made a mistake, he’s sorry, Liam is the light. With Steffy, Liam isn't worthy of her but he'll come back and they'll be a family but Liam is the lucky one and none of this is Steffy's fault. Just what is the true Bill Spencer? Does he know? Do the writers know? 

Monday's episode:
-Scott Clifton got a much needed day off. The man dug deep from somewhere deep inside. Hope he was chilling on a beach enjoying a beer and resting his tear ducts. 
- And again, Fuck Katie. She’s worried about Steffy’s mental state but not her former step son’s? She didn’t ask Wyatt if he heard from him or Bill. She knows this is a volatile situation. This woman blabbed Douglas’ paternity and was lurking in doorways stalking Ridge and Caroline until Thomas was told the truth but shit that involves her family she keeps mum? Again Fuck her and her inconsistent interference!
-I did laugh that Liam in absentia was cockblocking Wyatt.
-What is there to face Steffy? He dumped you, you’re getting a divorce, and sharing custody of the kid. HoodieSteffy eating a plate of eggs was hilarious.
-I’d have laughed if Steffy left a voicemail message for Liam saying please call her so she’s know he wasn’t kidnapped by Quinn again. But seriously, Bill I know Quinn is in a good phase for the moment, but your son was kidnapped once already, you’re the head of an empire with no doubt a lot of enemies, you have a crapload of  money. All of your kids should be under some kind of surveillance (which is how Bill would already know about Watie and be like 'yeah, and?') unless you’re like Getty and won’t pay ransom above $2 million.
-Uhhhh Brooke ain’t broke. She can see Hope whenever she wants by hopping on the Forrester private jet so why the shock and awe of her arrival?
-NuHope is aight. I guess. I did like her look at Ridge’s 'nothing can tear Liam and Steffy' apart was like challenge accepted. Notice she said or asked jack about Wyatt.
-Enjoy gleefully poking fun at Bill, Ridge. You’re about to find out your baby girl got Stallioned.
-Steffy was shocked Liam confronted Bill? Damn girl you dense.
-I’m at the point I want Steffy to yell to everyone ‘ Yes, I rode Bill. I screwed him and I wasn’t drunk or drugged or the bottom. I was sober and riding on top and knew we weren’t playing naked twister!’
-JMcW just did not sell Steffy’s ‘But now I’ve lost everything ‘ It had zero emotional oomf or nuance. She looked like she was just running her line instead of injecting the creeping hysterical/sobering certainty that she really has lost Liam. She was much better on Thursday with her shocked numbness on the beach. That was a woman who was adrift and uncertain and just free falling and resigned that there was no safety net to catch her.

[Cupid Stunt]

On ‎1‎/‎4‎/‎2018 at 0:51 PM, RuntheTable said:

4.     When Liam started asking the Bitch about how she saw him, and if she was like his dad? Did she see him as a sap or a sucker? How disturbing is it to learn that, deep down, Liam has always known this is how Bill feels about him, and that knowledge has almost allowed Liam to feel the same?

I caught up on Liam finally being convinced that Steffy and $Bill, and pretty much everyone else, thinks he's a waffling doormat.

Liam is a sap. He's played the victim dozens of times by Steffy and $Bill using his short-term memory loss, Pollyanna belief in the good in everyone, and blinkered wishful thinking, all to manipulate Liam. The last time Liam took over Spencer he knew Steffy was working with $Bill against his actions, he foolishly chose not to use his evidence of arson against $Bill to stop him cold, and kept all of $Bill's little helpmates at Spencer to work diligently against him. Liam is a blithering, gullible idiot. His sense of denial was pretty much bulletproof until Steffy and $Bill fucked. Once Lima understood how far they would go to betray him -- lie, cheat, hide the results of a DNA test, act like nothing was going on, Steffy renewing vows fresh from fucking $Bill -- Liam may have learned a lesson.

It's about time Liam came to the realization he's been their dupe and flunky, but if the truth is going to have any impact on Liam and the way he lives the rest of his life, he cannot go back to forgiving and forgetting that Steffy and $Bill are innately immoral and untrustworthy, or how they've used him from jump.

Rejecting and walking out on Steffy and $Bill is one thing -- That leaves them to while away the time justifying their behavior, and jump back into bed together, so $Bill can try a second time to convince Steffy that she's the other only one he had been waiting for all his miserable life -- but Liam leaving his child in the disloyal care of Steffy and revolting influence of $Bill, should not be tolerated.

Liam made a lot of noble noise about creating the family he never had with Steffy, and this would be the time to protect that one precious ideal. Liam should get in the Spencer Express Divorce Line and charge adultery (still on the books in California), publically lambast Steffy and name $Bill as correspondent, then file for full custody of the baby. The court controls all Steffy's medical care, and removes the baby from her at birth.

Cue the copious tears from Steffy's immobile face, and the many recriminations -- On your knees again $Bill ... "What have I done!" ... The short list is what haven't you done -- Because it's always about you.

If Liam is serious about walking away from Steffy and $Bill, now is the time. New home. New job. New life. New baby. TIIC recast a new Hope, but that's an old triangle -- What happened to Sally 2.0 and the Spectra crew?

 

 

Back to the cheap seats ...

[Waldo13]

13 hours ago, Petunia13 said:

 

Steffi cant really pull that hoody off. I hate when they try to make her look street or tom boyish. It doesn't jive with the face full of plastic surgery and 20lb wig. It just reeks of try hard and like "oh she's so edgy and fun or hashtag relatable" 

 

This!  Plus the black hoodie is a better actor than Stuffy.  It portrays more emotion than she can. 

[tessaray]

28 minutes ago, Waldo13 said:

This!  Plus the black hoodie is a better actor than Stuffy.  It portrays more emotion than she can. 

A new potential cast member?  The black hoodie of (self-inflicted) pain and misery...

NuHope was okay but reminded me more of Donna than Brooke.  Brooke looked great though.  And I'm finally resigned to Watie, I guess because I thought they looked cute together.  And Katie tap dancing re: Steffy was fun to watch. 

[RuntheTable]

I’m ok with new Hope so far; she certainly looks the part, but for me the most important thing was how she played off of Brooke, and that was a go for me, so first hurdle accomplished. What I liked about her the most, was how I was able to read double entendres in nearly all her statements. So I am not sure about anything with this one yet, but my fervent wish is that she is truly done with Liam romantically, and will only be there for him as a friend.

Speaking of Hope…..I decided to give Kim Matula’s new show a look see, and was very pleasantly surprised. This was the pilot episode, but I would still give it a 4 out of 5 star rating. The show has a nice, original premise, and I love the look and feel of it. I don’t know if the supporting cast will change from week to week, but the ones they had on the premier were very good. Dylan DcDermott is perfect as Captain Dave, the lush and playboy Pilot, and KM was really very good as Ronnie, the harried and unhappy Flight Attendant. I set it to record the series.

 

20 hours ago, CountryGirl said:

I just didn't buy Bill's remorse and DD failed to bring it like he usually does. Perhaps it was some of the dialogue, I don't know. Bill's talking about he needs Liam's forgiveness because of the goodness in Liam...it just didn't ring true to me. Bill has never given two shits about any of that and has so often mocked Liam for his cape wearing and do-gooder status. I do agree with @RuntheTable, that Liam's understated, chilling reaction put Bill off foot, but not so much so (IMO) that he would go completely contrary to character and start championing the very virtues he and Steffy both deemed weak and meaningless mere weeks ago.

Equally off and even more annoying was Bill's insistence that Liam HAS to reconcile with Steffy for the sake of the baby. Liam does not HAVE to do anything, much less reunite with the bitch who betrayed him and lied about and would have gone on lying had her lazy, entitled ass not been found out

OH! But, but, but let me explain! While I do think Bill was completely taken off guard, and was all off kilter when Liam showed up, I in no way meant to imply that I agree with any of the nonsense he was spillin’. Just that maybe he was talking without thinking; doing anything to keep the baby uppermost in Liam’s mind, because the baby is innocent and shouldn’t suffer because of Bill and Steffy’s actions. I agree with that. But not because I think Steffy is guiltless, or deserves to mother that child while still having a relationship with Liam. I think the one thing I have picked up on is how Steffy and Bill are protecting each other. Bill has already admitted that Steffy is the woman he has waited for his whole life. Steffy is just in denial. All her actions leading up to GuestHouseFuckGate say she wanted/wants the apex of the Spencer Men, and who should know better than the innocent that has bedded all of them, nearly completing the trifecta in a single year. Steffy should have turned Bill away. But she didn’t, and that was because she needed to hear Bill’s propping. She needed to hear him reassure her that she is blameless. That is the reason she heard Katie out. Steffy wants to act like she doesn’t want Bill; she wants everyone to hear her pleas of “out of body experiences”, and “I thought my marriage was over!”, and “I was shattered!” in the hopes they will not see her as a father-in-law fucking whore. But that is exactly what she is; worse actually, because of her actions with Bill prior to boinking him. All those visits where she allowed Bill to drag Liam through the dirt, never really agreeing, but not protesting too loudly either. Supporting Bill, while denigrating Liam’s beliefs, and trying to sell that in a package with a beautiful bow named Sally. This Bitch was so desperate to exhibit that she was still in total and complete possession of Liam's balls, that she would rather have family and friends think Liam had developed feelings for another woman. No, she hated Liam’s actions because they were not what she wanted him to be doing. Steffy hated Liam’s actions because they violated her superiority complex, and they robbed her of her control over Liam. From day one of Liam’s power play, and taking over SP’s, it was clear that Steffy was none too pleased with a confident, cocky Liam. That is when her non-stop monologues about supporting his father began. And since then, she has been Bill’s shoulder to bitch on, his confidant, his most ardent supporter, his friend, and his fuck buddy. Steffy may think I have forgotten the sultry, come fuck me eyes, and I’m wet for you looks she was giving Bill on Thanksgiving, but um…….that would be incorrect. And now, this elitist snob, who ran roughshod over Brooke for Hope, and over Hope for ever being born, will understand how that type of unrelenting persecution feels. I will grieve for that poor child, but never for Steffy.

Wouldn’t it be a real twist if they are planning on pairing Hope and Thorne? There is no blood relation there, at least none that I can think of. And sure, there is an age difference, but no worse than Brooke and Eric (round 1), or Donna and Eric. And they have both lost, and of course Hope grew up with the Brooke/Deacon stigma. I am sure it won’t be long before they chem test them, so let’s see.

Brooke’s hair looked soooo good yesterday, but I wasn’t digging that blouse so much. Ridge looked really nice. But I still hate this game he is playing. All these surprises for His Logan. ISH! And Brooke acting like this is her and Ridge’s first time; all giggly and gooey eyed. I honestly don’t know how much more of it I can take. Just a few months ago Ridge was rolling around with his Stepmom on the same guest house bed his daughter would be using to fuck her FIL a couple of weeks later. He continued to fantasize about Quinn for weeks after returning from Australia, and just a bit ago, was having that oddly intimate conversation with Quinn about the Jewelry Line when Brooke peeped around the door. I don’t know. I just am not buying it, and I can’t believe Brooke is either. When you have to continually be telling people that “he has changed”, or that “he is sorry”, or that “he promises not to ever betray me again”, that speaks volumes about the character being discussed. As Katie said, everyone makes mistakes, but when you continue to make the same mistakes over and over and over again, well then they become a life style. A bride to be should not be spending the days leading up to her nuptial’s defending, making excuses for, or explaining away the actions of her betrothed. Every time Brooke has had Ridge, she has spent that entire time looking over her shoulder for Stephanie, or Taylor, or for any other thing Ridge could find and use as an excuse to dump her. Because the truth is; he only wants Brooke when he can’t have her, or when she is happy with someone else. How many of Brooke’s marriages has Ridge raced to stop? And how many times has he failed? The only time I can think of is Grant. So why does Brooke believe this time is going to be different? What has Ridge done to show her he has changed? Had a surprise lunch for her on her property and then proposed? Had Donna flown in for Thanksgiving? Brought Hope home? Nice gestures for sure, but how does that prove there has been any change to the person Ridge is? Seems more like Ridge digging deep into his playbook for different ways to impress Brooke, and to keep those stars shining in her eyes, blocking out the harsh light of reality.

I’m proud of Katie for keeping her trap shut, however, lounging together on one of the FC’s fuck me couches is not a good idea if you want to keep your romance a secret.

Wordy McWord to your entire post @TobinAlbers

Edited January 9, 2018 by RuntheTable

[thewhiteowl]

I don't really expect Liam to go all scorched earth on Dolla and Steffy but it would be nice. Maybe if they actually get together, he would sue for custody, to keep the child from Dolla but truly even that's a stretch. He may hate Dolla forever but ultimately he won't do Steffy like that. He does have a heart and he knows Steffy wants the baby as bad as he does. Her getting cozy with Dolla could be a game changer, tho. 

[Cool Breeze]

21 hours ago, mightysparrow said:

The idea that Hope was the bad one because she wanted to wait for marriage before she had sex was mind-boggling.  She was a young woman who had made a choice about what she wanted to do with her body and she was dragged through the streets of LA for it.  As a woman who is decidedly pro-choice, I never understood why Hope was so roundly criticized for wanting to be a virgin on her wedding night.  She had the right to make that choice for herself.  

Yes, she made the choice for herself.  She also made it publicly without consulting her fiance which just revealed gross immaturity and self-absorption on her part.  I'm not buying into the sleep-with-a-man-to-keep-him idea that some were pushing but I do think a mature conversation with the man she intended to marry would have been appropriate.